Question for 1As regarding up-dos

[lunalocks]

Apparently my beautiful daughter was in tears before a fancy wedding this past weekend due to her inability to keep her hair up in a up-do. Her husband called me today to tell me. He wants to know what kind of a clip he can get for her that would be suitable for a fancy event. He said "She should feel as beautiful as she is." What a guy. He was imagining some sort of claw-clip made of metal as her plastic claw clip was what she ended up using. Something simple to use but elegant.

Her hair is stick straight, fine and super slippery. I have tried to french braid it in the past (it falls out) use spin pins (they fall out) and sticks or forks (they fall out.) We have tried curling it to give it some texture (the curls fall out.) She typically wears her hair down all the time. It's about waist length now, but is typically anywhere from mid back to hip.

For her high school graduation she went with friends to a beauty school and had curls and a half-up They must have used a can of hairspray as it stayed put and it looked lovely. These days she is being careful about Covid as well as having no time to sit and have her hair fussed over, so for now going to a salon is out.

Any ideas? Thank you in advance.

[foreveryours]

My hair's no way no how slippery but I have noticed that some claw clips are not purely hard material (plastic or metal) but have a silicone "lining" which is very grabby toward hair.

[lunalocks]

Good to know! Thank you!

[lapushka]

My hair's no way no how slippery but I have noticed that some claw clips are not purely hard material (plastic or metal) but have a silicone "lining" which is very grabby toward hair.

Gotta be careful with that lining though because I have ones that are about 5-10 years old and it decays; either it loosens from the base or it crumbles apart. I had this happen in my hair. :(

[foreveryours]

Gotta be careful with that lining though because I have ones that are about 5-10 years old and it decays; either it loosens from the base or it crumbles apart. I had this happen in my hair. :(

Yeah, I only use big claw clips in the shower (where noone can see) and then they're in for like only 10 minutes. The "lining" does seem to vary in "stickiness". I have an old REVLON (the other broke) which seems quite a bit grabbier than my other GOODYs.

[rosenester]

Random thoughts here:
Would a ficcare (or similar style clip) work - I have not tried those yet, but also have really slippery fine hair. What about a braided updo or dutch braid? I just got a flexi-8 clip and can’t vouch for how long it holds quite yet, but plan on experimenting for fancier looks. I used claw clips for many years because it’s affordable, secure, convenient, but not the best for dressing up!

[tuanyiji]

What’s the circumference of her hair and is it layered?
Sometimes it’s almost impossible to make an updo without an elastic pony first if the hair is too dense and too layered. My niece is 1a/C/5 inch pony circumference BSL-WL, and that’s after her mother thinned it for easier management in the summer, otherwise, it’d be too hot and too heavy. I can French braid or Dutch braid her hair easily, but it’s impossible to bun it up, the shortest layers just stick out, and the base is huge but there isn’t enough end to finish. I end up having to use an elastic band to secure the loop. I also use a hair net for a sleeker bun look so there won’t be nasty bits sneaking out. I estimate she’d at least be TBL when her layers grow out to be able to bun without a tie, and she’d better use a sturdy fork, not a slim stick.

Sam Villa has some updo tutorials for medium lengths hair for fancy events, but it involves crimping the hair to give it texture first and tons of hairsprays, not ideal if they want healthy hair in the long run.
But you can always try the pull-over braid with tons of elastic ties, you don't need hair products for that, and a romantic puffy braid or even elegant half-up is quite suitable for a fancy event.

[lapushka]

Yeah, I only use big claw clips in the shower (where noone can see) and then they're in for like only 10 minutes. The "lining" does seem to vary in "stickiness". I have an old REVLON (the other broke) which seems quite a bit grabbier than my other GOODYs.

My brand is a EU one, called "Zenner", it's well-known around these parts, both in The Netherlands as in Belgium, at least.

[lunalocks]

What’s the circumference of her hair and is it layered?
Sometimes it’s almost impossible to make an updo without an elastic pony first if the hair is too dense and too layered. My niece is 1a/C/5 inch pony circumference BSL-WL, and that’s after her mother thinned it for easier management in the summer, otherwise, it’d be too hot and too heavy. I can French braid or Dutch braid her hair easily, but it’s impossible to bun it up, the shortest layers just stick out, and the base is huge but there isn’t enough end to finish. I end up having to use an elastic band to secure the loop. I also use a hair net for a sleeker bun look so there won’t be nasty bits sneaking out. I estimate she’d at least be TBL when her layers grow out to be able to bun without a tie, and she’d better use a sturdy fork, not a slim stick.

Sam Villa has some updo tutorials for medium lengths hair for fancy events, but it involves crimping the hair to give it texture first and tons of hairsprays, not ideal if they want healthy hair in the long run.
But you can always try the pull-over braid with tons of elastic ties, you don't need hair products for that, and a romantic puffy braid or even elegant half-up is quite suitable for a fancy event.

Her hair is not layered, and is not thick. She has crimped her hair once, but needed (my) help. Her braids will not puff. She HAS braided when damp and let it dry and that has given some texture, so that's an idea. I think any up do that requires extensive braiding she would not be able to do herself.

[lunalocks]

My brand is a EU one, called "Zenner", it's well-known around these parts, both in The Netherlands as in Belgium, at least.

Thank you. I looked for a Zenner and found the shark clips. How strange they look! But it;s an option. Do you use one or more than one at a time? Do you feel like this could pass as an elegant hair accessory?

I found these also - https://www.amazon.com/clear-claw-clip/s?k=clear+claw+clip - the rectangular ones look pretty cool to me.

[shelomit]

Does the slickness/escapery vary at all with the cleanliness of her hair? My mother has very fine, straight hair and can't get it to stay in a ponytail when it's freshly washed, but as the week wears on it gets a little more "grip."

[lunalocks]

Does the slickness/escapery vary at all with the cleanliness of her hair? My mother has very fine, straight hair and can't get it to stay in a ponytail when it's freshly washed, but as the week wears on it gets a little more "grip."

No grip, ever.

[thatsideoflife]

I was also going to say start with wet hair. Here's some hair styles that are popular nowadays using ponytail holders and "twists." She would certainly fit in.

https://youtube.com/shorts/f2YCYpHnjNM?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/0mOqa9IyFtY?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/4YZs-gFhac4?feature=share

[Lady Stardust]

Hair clips used to slide right out of my hair. I sometimes wear small crocodile clips with flowers. The metal grips hold better than claw clips for me.

Claw clips work best for me if they’re tiny and if I twist my hair before putting them in. Do you have Claire’s Accessories on your side of the pond lunalocks? They have some lightweight hair accessories because children tend to have slippery hair.

Spraying the area with hairspray can help with grip too.

An alternative could be a fancy headband. 1920s/30s style came to mind, where a decorative motif is worn flat against the hair (ArtiDeco 1920s Headpiece Vintage 1920s Headband Crystal Headband Flapper Headpiece with Crystal Great Gatsby Costume Accessories Roaring 20's Accessories https://amzn.eu/d/3jzqSjY), but there are lots of styles around - beaded, floral, plain but coloured.

Your daughter’s hair sounds so beautiful, I’m sorry to hear she is feeling bad about not being able to do anything fancy with it. That’s what made me think of headbands, because they let the hair flow and do what it’s good at!

[lunalocks]

Good ideas. I am afraid headbands would slide right off, but its worth a try. We DO have Claires here. I sense she is wanting something sophisticated rather than sparkly and pretty.

Her hair IS beautiful! Doesn't almost everyone with waves want perfectly straight and silky hair? Add length and perfect care and it is just gorgeous. Simply down is elegant enough, or up in a pony. But she wanted an up do and it apparently was frustrating. Her sweet husband just wants a plan for next time and is sort of set on finding the right clip that would do it.

So many good ideas are here. I am going to compile them and send to him. I thank you all.

I was not able to open your link :(

[lapushka]

Thank you. I looked for a Zenner and found the shark clips. How strange they look! But it;s an option. Do you use one or more than one at a time? Do you feel like this could pass as an elegant hair accessory?

I found these also - https://www.amazon.com/clear-claw-clip/s?k=clear+claw+clip - the rectangular ones look pretty cool to me.

I would get brands that you can easily get, lunalocks. Zenner doesn't go abroad, as far as I know. But the ones you linked are so "many". I don't know where to look first, is it the first ones the rectangular ones, yes? I think so; so pretty!

[lunalocks]

Yes, the rectangular ones look "different" and more sophisticated than the usual claw.

[Lady Stardust]

Good ideas. I am afraid headbands would slide right off, but its worth a try. We DO have Claires here. I sense she is wanting something sophisticated rather than sparkly and pretty.

Her hair IS beautiful! Doesn't almost everyone with waves want perfectly straight and silky hair? Add length and perfect care and it is just gorgeous. Simply down is elegant enough, or up in a pony. But she wanted an up do and it apparently was frustrating. Her sweet husband just wants a plan for next time and is sort of set on finding the right clip that would do it.

So many good ideas are here. I am going to compile them and send to him. I thank you all.

I was not able to open your link :(

I’ve tried the link and I can’t get it to work either! Here’s another, to a similar headband
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/666527228/gunmetal-pewter-dark-grey-beaded

Thinking of Claire’s had reminded me of a velvet bun former I bought from there in the 90s! That might work on slippery hair. It was this sort of thing - the hair is slotted through the middle, rolled up and the ends are bent around.
https://www.claires.com/bow-bun-roller-hair-tools-kit---black-251965.html?lang=en_GB

I agree it’s lovely that your son in law is asking you for suggestions :heart:

[lunalocks]

OOOOO! Those are pretty!

[Cg]

First, I thoroughly commiserate with your daughter since my hair is the same. I have found that both dampening quite heavily and twisting helps it stay up better, regardless of the hairtoy. I sometimes French braid just the back of the head and then bun. Gives a bit of extra anchor.

Even at calf length, the only hairtoy that consistently works most of the day is a 4 or 5 pronged wood fork. I have for brief periods used a claw clip with the grabby lining, and twined something decorative around the clip to make it fancier -- silk flowers or miniature florist decorations.

Amish pins also work if you use enough (I typically use 8-12). If you can still find them, Good Hair Days made short pins that aren't visible but did hold. She could maybe put a fancy barrette or something over a bun held with those.

Bun choice matters too. Slick hair needs to have a knot or loop to pull the hair through. Just wrapping like a cinnamon bun is never going to be in my 1a wheelhouse.

[lunalocks]

Thank you, cg. Very good information.

[Kyamo]

What about mousse? My hair is not super slippery, so I'm not sure if this applies, but my hair is way more grabby when I've used mousse.

[SandyBottom]

Would a paranda work? I've never tried one personally, but thought it might add some volume and also something for clips to grab onto for putting up.

[lunalocks]

She probably had no mousse available at the time, but that is a great suggestion. Thank you!

[lunalocks]

I think we tried a paranda once and it simply slipped out. Even tying it around a pony was not grabby enough. But a rougher fiber! Maybe that would work! Thank you.

[SparrowWings]

Back when my hair was slipperier, it was all about finding a style that didn't move. Ponytails would slide out, braids would loosen, because they were still mobile, even if contained. Any time I lucked into a properly secured bun, it worked much better -- unless I bumped my head against something and triggered movement! I was never able to do anything consistently, but that immobility was always the key. In case it's a detail she hadn't considered might help.

[lunalocks]

Thank you. So far all that really has worked is a big claw clip.

[MusicalSpoons]

Thinking of Claire’s had reminded me of a velvet bun former I bought from there in the 90s! That might work on slippery hair. It was this sort of thing - the hair is slotted through the middle, rolled up and the ends are bent around.
https://www.claires.com/bow-bun-roller-hair-tools-kit---black-251965.html?lang=en_GB

I agree it’s lovely that your son in law is asking you for suggestions :heart:

Oooh those bun formers are great! My hair was slippery when I was younger and I absolutely loved those, such a neat bun and the ends of the former out could be left out to form a bow if desired.

[Lady Stardust]

Oooh those bun formers are great! My hair was slippery when I was younger and I absolutely loved those, such a neat bun and the ends of the former out could be left out to form a bow if desired.

Yes they work a treat don’t they! I had amazing waves when I took my hair down too! I remember being shocked because at the time I didn’t think anything would make my hair curl.

[Annapox]

My hair is fine, straight, dense, and great at escaping from hair accessories. I can get a pair of hair sticks or a hair fork to work on day 2 or 3 hair, but not on freshly washed hair. (It sounds like that's not the case with your daughter, though.) I think my Flexi-8 stays put a bit better than a hair stick or fork when my hair is more slippery. Braiding my hair before doing a hair stick/fork bun often helps it stay better, and the braiding doesn't have to be fancy. I sometimes do a regular English braid and then turn that into a cinnamon bun, and the braided bun stays put much better than a normal cinnamon bun. I have to tie off the braid before I bun it, though, or the braid will come undone and then the bun will fall out. The hair ties I use right now are by Scünci; they're black, smooth, and kind of thick, and the cardboard thing they come on says "no damage" on it. They usually stay put really well at the ends of my braids, and they don't pull out any hairs when I take them out. I've never had much luck with claw clips, or really any other kind of clip. They always start sliding out within half an hour.