Low-heat flat iron for hot oil treatment shortcut?

[Vara La Fey]

Hi, all.

I just bought avocado oil and extra virgin olive oil, and will combine them with my beloved coconut oil 33% each. Or maybe 40-40-20%, since my hair gets coconut all the time. I need a good quick hot oil treatment routine. Totally not interested in shower caps and towels.

So I've got the oil, and a flat iron should be the heat, but mine has a "low" setting of 304F. This is below the smoke point (https://www.10best.com/interests/food-culture/why-to-know-cooking-oil-smoke-points-olive-coconut-oil/) of the oils (coconut unrefined is 350F, refined is 400F; ev olive oil 320-405F, avocado oil 520F). But 304F is still too much because merely 212 will steam the moisture (water) in my cuticle. In the industrial realm, steam can blow steel pipes apart.

Does anyone know of a flat iron that has a low setting of 150-200F and doesn't cost a queen's ransom? Walmart and Amazon don't have a way to search for that, likely because most mfgrs and marketers are either too stupid to list precise heat settings, or they think we're too stupid to care. I've seen cheap steamers, but I'm skeptical of the water/oil mix behaving as I want.

Though theoretically I might load the oils into the steamer's reservoir instead of water....? Hmm. Y'all have thoughts on that?

The backstory: BSL type 1C, coarse and dry, now gone gray but I add blonde about twice a year. (My hair LOVES that cheap Colorsilk colorizing/conditioner combo!!) Trying to grow to my waist, but it's only ever been 2-3" past BSL, and then only twice. I hope that's not terminal. Once I cut it, and once it seriously decayed from neglect - over a few years I lost 8" of it to breakage, dryness and splits. (Yikes, right?) Now it's coming close to that length again and I'm serious about showing it some proper love.

I literally made a spreadsheet of common ingredients so I know what to seek and what to destroy. I've started avoiding non-h2o soluble 'cones and table salt, and use sulfates only in my clarifier. I mask regularly with coconut oil, leaving it on overnight or even til next shampoo. Seems to help.

Thanks for whatever you ladies (or gents) can tell me. :-)

[Zesty]

I don't think it's necessary to apply even as much heat as you're looking for? Were you going to apply the oil and then flat iron over your oiled hair? That seems like a recipe for damage.

If you really want the oil to be warm (I don't think it's strictly speaking necessary at all unless the coconut oil is solidifying) why not heat the oils themselves by putting them in a small bowl and placing that in hot water to warm them up?

[lapushka]

If you want a hot oil treatment, just take some boiling water, put it in a bowl or cup and set down your oil in it. That's the only warmth you need. Be careful you don't burn yourself, and keep the oil in the bowl for 5 minutes, no more!

[Vara La Fey]

I don't think it's necessary to apply even as much heat as you're looking for? Were you going to apply the oil and then flat iron over your oiled hair? That seems like a recipe for damage.
If you really want the oil to be warm (I don't think it's strictly speaking necessary at all unless the coconut oil is solidifying) why not heat the oils themselves by putting them in a small bowl and placing that in hot water to warm them up?

Thanks. No, I dunno if 150-200F is necessary. I know people say that just body heat is enough, and they use shower caps/etc to contain it. Maybe they're right. But heat makes molecules jump around, and thus seems like a good shortcut. We all have so many sources of heat that a diy hot oil routine should be ridiculously easy.

I just bought a little 3oz refillable squirt bottle for masking oils, and I'm hoping it's nuker safe, since I have to heat the oil separately until I have a better system. Of course that won't keep it hot while and after applying it. I'm really thinking about those steamer irons, though they'd have to be 212F or above to create steam from water.

Yes, idea is to oil the hair then iron (or blowdry) it, but only on sub-steam temp.

A couple weeks ago as a conscious experiment I did use my 304F flat iron on my lower 2-3", which included some scragglies I was going to trim anyway. I waited a week to see if there was any breakage, and was none, so I trimmed. But I've noticed just a few white dots in that area that wasn't trimmed but was ironed. So I def won't be using 300F on my hair again, probably ever.

[Vara La Fey]

Thanks, but why couldn't I directly microwave my little "mask oils" squirt bottle for.... prolly 20 sec? Is it like alcohol, where the nuker changes the composition? (If you nuke your rum/cider or nog/cider, the alcohol is gone. So always nuke first, then add booze!)

Unless/until I find a better system, my only options seem to be: preheat the oil somehow, body-heat it under a shower cap (which I don't even own), or room-temp it as an overnight mask like I've been doing til now.

[Zesty]

I think there's some debate about microwaving oils but I don't have much of an opinion on it. It might heat unevenly and you have less control, even if it doesn't change it otherwise? Maybe someone else can weigh in.

Shower caps are super cheap and easy to come by, might be something worth picking up. You could also combo it with a microwavable heat cap. But I don't think there's anything wrong with doing it at room temperature either, especially if you've been happy with the results so far.

[Zesty]

I have a couple of caps from this store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/ThermalHairCare

Maybe that's a good option beyond what you've listed? It would be more than body heat but still gentle.

[Lady Stardust]

I use a Hot Head heat cap, they have flax seeds (as far as I remember!) inside. I microwave the heat cap and put it on for 20 minutes or so. I use oil and conditioner and sometimes aloe vera too, put a (sort of) shower cap over (it’s satiny, not plastic) and then the Hot Head on top.

I find it really relaxing and it’s a definite improvement over just body temperature.

When I’m not using a heat cap I just put babassu oil in for a few hours before I wash my hair (or less if I don’t have time).

As far as heat damage from flat irons goes, my hair didn’t show any damage for years and then it exploded in a load of split ends :) My hairdresser used them when my hair was around bob length, only about 4 times over the course of a year. I think my hair is just stupidly fragile, but as far as using heat for conditioning goes, I would opt for a heat cap over a flat iron. This might be one of those “your mileage may vary” things.

[foreveryours]

You could probably buy a wall dimmer and put that between the plug and the iron from your local hardware store for a few bucks. Probably need to adjust it though - lick your finger and touch the iron to see if you get a hiss. Not sayin' it's a good idea but just throwing it out there :p

Avocado oil's the best for frying due to its unsurpassed smoke point

[blackgothicdoll]

I use a microwave or hot water if it's an expensive treatment I don't want to risk degrading. That or I'll second the hot head, I normally use it for water-based masks but it can be used however you want, just wear plastic between it and your hair.

[elaina]

Though theoretically I might load the oils into the steamer's reservoir instead of water....? Hmm. Y'all have thoughts on that?

youll likely break it or it just wont work, you cant turn oil into steam

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Don't put flat irons anywhere near your hair. Not if you want healthy hair.

[Abacus]

Heating oil with a flat iron sounds like a really risky idea to me. Hot oil treatments aren't meant to be that hot, and as someone said before, that sounds like a recipe for damaged hair. I imagine it would fry. I'm also not sure that oil would be good for your flat iron.

Hot oil treatments are more about allowing your hair shaft to open up and sit with the warm oil for a while, and less about pushing the oil into the hair with high heat. I know you're looking for a shortcut, but to me that seems to be missing the point of what a hot oil treatment is. I think it's supposed to take a little time, in order to allow everything to steep. That's why sitting with a heat cap is so great. It's just nice and warm and you keep it on for a while.

[lapushka]

Yes, just wondering. Why do you think the flat iron is such a good idea? Oil. Hot oil does not have to be scorching hot to be effective. Just sayin'. Just lukewarm to warm is enough. You do not, errr definitely not, have to "singe" it in.

[foreveryours]

Yes, just wondering. Why do you think the flat iron is such a good idea? Oil. Hot oil does not have to be scorching hot to be effective. Just sayin'. Just lukewarm to warm is enough. You do not, errr definitely not, have to "singe" it in.

Maybe hair's like chicken or potatoes. You need the oil hot enough to seal in the moisture, and make the outside crispy Yummy :p

[Vara La Fey]

I have a couple of caps from this store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/ThermalHairCare
Maybe that's a good option beyond what you've listed? It would be more than body heat but still gentle.

I appreciate the info. I may get a cap for the overnight masks. But my hairline is low and I'm trans, so a lot of caps (and wigs) just don't cover my hairline. That's the main reason I've been avoiding them.

Nuking the oil should be ok. Not knowing how my new little mixing bottle will react, I'll def heat incrementally and test as I go. Uneven heating is fine; I'll just shake the bottle. :-)

[Vara La Fey]

I use a Hot Head heat cap, they have flax seeds (as far as I remember!) inside. I microwave the heat cap and put it on for 20 minutes or so. I use oil and conditioner and sometimes aloe vera too, put a (sort of) shower cap over (it’s satiny, not plastic) and then the Hot Head on top.
[....]As far as heat damage from flat irons goes, my hair didn’t show any damage for years and then it exploded in a load of split ends :)

Yeah, I'm thinking the irons are a lost cause. So far I haven't found any in the 150-200F heat range I want. Anything 212F+ is out of the question, and most irons don't go anywhere near that low. :-(

I may try a medium-heat blowdryer just for the hot oil treatments. Otherwise I'll airdry anyway. Got tired of blowdryers years ago.

[Zesty]

I hope you find a method you're happy with! For what it's worth, the caps I linked are very generously sized IMO. I have no trouble wearing it over a pretty high profile bun, and I don't have a small head by any stretch either.

[Vara La Fey]

You could probably buy a wall dimmer and put that between the plug and the iron from your local hardware store for a few bucks. Probably need to adjust it though - lick your finger and touch the iron to see if you get a hiss. Not sayin' it's a good idea but just throwing it out there :p
Avocado oil's the best for frying due to its unsurpassed smoke point

Oooh, dimmer switch is an interesting idea. Do you know if irons heat proportional to the current they're given? I'd test for hot-enough with water drops, as I don't want to go to or over boiling.

[Vara La Fey]

I use a microwave or hot water if it's an expensive treatment I don't want to risk degrading. That or I'll second the hot head, I normally use it for water-based masks but it can be used however you want, just wear plastic between it and your hair.

Never used a Hot Head. Why do I need plastic?

[Vara La Fey]

youll likely break it or it just wont work, you cant turn oil into steam

Thanks. I know oil won't steam - and I want to stay way below any smoke points! - but if a steamer is constructed to just heat and spray, it should work for oil. That's a big "if" tho.

[Vara La Fey]

Don't put flat irons anywhere near your hair. Not if you want healthy hair.

So far I can't find any with low enough heat anyway, so I no longer plan to use them. I don't straighten, as I'm 1C. I can get hot oil with a blowdryer, or just stick with body temp or room temp.

[Vara La Fey]

....]Hot oil treatments are more about allowing your hair shaft to open up and sit with the warm oil for a while, and less about pushing the oil into the hair with high heat. I know you're looking for a shortcut, but to me that seems to be missing the point of what a hot oil treatment is. I think it's supposed to take a little time, in order to allow everything to steep. That's why sitting with a heat cap is so great. It's just nice and warm and you keep it on for a while.

Hadn't thought of that. Thanks.

[Vara La Fey]

Yes, just wondering. Why do you think the flat iron is such a good idea? Oil. Hot oil does not have to be scorching hot to be effective. Just sayin'. Just lukewarm to warm is enough. You do not, errr definitely not, have to "singe" it in.

Was planning to "singe" it in, using the higher energy molecular action. Wasn't planning to go quite up to 212F anyway, tho I did it once a couple weeks ago as a test on scragglies. But now a couple of you have said that's not the point of hot oil, and you're prolly right.

[foreveryours]

Oooh, dimmer switch is an interesting idea. Do you know if irons heat proportional to the current they're given? I'd test for hot-enough with water drops, as I don't want to go to or over boiling.

For DC, power is the product of voltage and current. For fixed voltage power is determined by current. For AC, it's not quite so simple but it's close enough. While there are all sorts of ways to heat things, I think the iron is basically just a big resistor, you shouldn't have any problem trying to use a wall dimmer to regulate the current through it. Using a dimmer switch to control an inductive load like a motor wouldn't work so well. I think you could easily get a temperature in the range youi want (below 100° C) with a dimmer. Just make sure the dimmer switch is rated for the max wattage of the iron

[Vara La Fey]

I hope you find a method you're happy with! For what it's worth, the caps I linked are very generously sized IMO. I have no trouble wearing it over a pretty high profile bun, and I don't have a small head by any stretch either.

Thanks. That should work, then.

[Vara La Fey]

For DC, power is the product of voltage and current. For fixed voltage power is determined by current. For AC, it's not quite so simple but it's close enough. While there are all sorts of ways to heat things, I think the iron is basically just a big resistor, you shouldn't have any problem trying to use a wall dimmer to regulate the current through it. Using a dimmer switch to control an inductive load like a motor wouldn't work so well. I think you could easily get a temperature in the range youi want (below 100° C) with a dimmer. Just make sure the dimmer switch is rated for the max wattage of the iron

Thx, I noted that. If I do it, I'll try to remember to let you know how it goes. That could useful anyway, turning a floor lamp into a nightlight, etc.

[elaina]

For DC, power is the product of voltage and current. For fixed voltage power is determined by current. For AC, it's not quite so simple but it's close enough. While there are all sorts of ways to heat things, I think the iron is basically just a big resistor, you shouldn't have any problem trying to use a wall dimmer to regulate the current through it. Using a dimmer switch to control an inductive load like a motor wouldn't work so well. I think you could easily get a temperature in the range youi want (below 100° C) with a dimmer. Just make sure the dimmer switch is rated for the max wattage of the iron

isnt doing stuff like this dangerous?


Thanks. I know oil won't steam - and I want to stay way below any smoke points! - but if a steamer is constructed to just heat and spray, it should work for oil. That's a big "if" tho.

im pretty sure they dont spray like a spray bottle, and even if they do i dont think any sprayers would work very well with oil.

[lapushka]

Was planning to "singe" it in, using the higher energy molecular action. Wasn't planning to go quite up to 212F anyway, tho I did it once a couple weeks ago as a test on scragglies. But now a couple of you have said that's not the point of hot oil, and you're prolly right.

Yep, besides, water and a straightener... okay, but *oil* and a hot plate? Think of what oil does in a frying pan. That is what it's gonna do to your hair, and we just don't want anything to do with straighteners or curling irons, with good reason. If you want healthy hair, that's the first thing you want to ditch in your routines.

[foreveryours]

isnt doing stuff like this dangerous?



im pretty sure they dont spray like a spray bottle, and even if they do i dont think any sprayers would work very well with oil.

I won't tell if you don't

[blackgothicdoll]

Never used a Hot Head. Why do I need plastic?

The hot head is cloth so the plastic keeps it clean. You can also just wrap your hair in a damp, warm towel. Feels amazing.

[Vara La Fey]

The hot head is cloth so the plastic keeps it clean. You can also just wrap your hair in a damp, warm towel. Feels amazing.

Thanks. But I live in Vegas, and used to live in Phoenix where it's even hotter. Sitting under hot towels and Hot Heads just seems like it'd be another day in the sun. Not sure what I'll do. I'm only sure that I need something I will do.

[blackgothicdoll]

Thanks. But I live in Vegas, and used to live in Phoenix where it's even hotter. Sitting under hot towels and Hot Heads just seems like it'd be another day in the sun. Not sure what I'll do. I'm only sure that I need something I will do.

How on earth is a flat iron any better? I don't understand...

[MusicalSpoons]

Thanks. But I live in Vegas, and used to live in Phoenix where it's even hotter. Sitting under hot towels and Hot Heads just seems like it'd be another day in the sun. Not sure what I'll do. I'm only sure that I need something I will do.

In that case, putting the oil on and sitting outside on a hot day would likely be enough! (I'm not necessarily recommending it - maybe in the shade, but not actually in the sun which is itself damaging for hair.) You could also/instead warm the oil in the sun before applying.

Hot heat tools are catastrophic for hair, and absolutely the first thing to eliminate in the quest for healthy hair as lapushka already said.

[lapushka]

How on earth is a flat iron any better? I don't understand...

Here's another one that doesn't get it. Then surely any hot tool is out of the question.

Hot oil just needs a "tad" warming up; that's it. No more!

[spidermom]

This is off subject, but this thread reminded me:

Years ago I had my hair professionally flat ironed because my granddaughter had lice, and I read that this would kill any remaining nits. I had thoroughly combed her hair, but had no one to do mine, so I went for heat. It worked, providing I had lice in the first place, which was never established.

[shelomit]

Maybe hair's like chicken or potatoes. You need the oil hot enough to seal in the moisture, and make the outside crispy Yummy :p

(Reading this thread while searing chicken for kabsa. . .)

[foreveryours]

(Reading this thread while searing chicken for kabsa. . .)

The wonders of hot oil, juicy huh? :p

[GordonMurphella]

Oh no. No no no. Direct heat anyway is hideously damaging and heating oil with a flat iron = frying in my book. Agree with a head wrap, or saran wrap with a towel over top. But, as they say, you do you. It sounds as though you are leaning that way anyway. Let us know how it goes.

[shelomit]

The wonders of hot oil, juicy huh? :p

Well, I was cooking Egyptian-style, so I used clarified butter instead ( ;

https://i.postimg.cc/k4nWm8DK/IMG-20220624-132738992.jpg (https://postimg.cc/4KSYvY6x)

[foreveryours]

LOL stop you're making me hungry!

[lapushka]

About to be one of those "epic" threads eh? :lol:

[Bat]

Flatiron over hair with oil in it would be a disaster it would melt off like plastic.

[shelomit]

LOL stop you're making me hungry!

It's not at all a hard dish to make ( ; I simmer the chicken very slowly with onion, garlic, carrot, and seasonings (black lime, turmeric root, cardamom, coriander, fenugreek seed, cinnamon, bay, cloves, black pepper, and chiles of choice), then fish the meat out and crisp the skin up in butter while I cook some rice in the broth it had made. One of my favorite dishes to bring to potlucks because it tastes fine at room temp and using chicken wings makes the meat nicely portioned out for sharing.

[foreveryours]

I've used ghee, but find avacado oil doesn't smoke so much. When i was in grad school, my gf and I were really into Indian eats but to save money, since spice shops abounded in Berkeley at the time and cash was perennially in short supply, we were trying to learn how to cook our own. It's really tricky. Experience is the only way to learn. I admire you

Back to our regularly scheduled programming ...

[Shorty89]

It's not at all a hard dish to make ( ; I simmer the chicken very slowly with onion, garlic, carrot, and seasonings (black lime, turmeric root, cardamom, coriander, fenugreek seed, cinnamon, bay, cloves, black pepper, and chiles of choice), then fish the meat out and crisp the skin up in butter while I cook some rice in the broth it had made. One of my favorite dishes to bring to potlucks because it tastes fine at room temp and using chicken wings makes the meat nicely portioned out for sharing.

:stirpot::yumm::yumm:

[lapushka]

Reminds me, it's been a while since we had chicken curry. Yummmmmeeee! :yumm:

[GordonMurphella]

About to be one of those "epic" threads eh? :lol:

So it would appear :) Off to scramble some eggs, myself.

[Sarahlabyrinth]

I love to pan fry chicken thighs in butter and have them with home made Chinese egg fried rice. Chicken goes so well with rice, I think.

[Vara La Fey]

How on earth is a flat iron any better? I don't understand...

A flat iron on low temp (<212F, the only kind I've been talking about) for quick hot oil treating is better than a hotter setting, and a low-temp flat iron for 2 minutes is better than 20 minutes under a hot towel or other.

Plus I'm realizing that I will never do the towel/HotHead/shower cap thing. Ever. So for me it's either a dimmer mechanism to get a sub-boiling temp on the flat iron, a low-med heat blowdryer, or the overnight oil masking I've been doing for a few years anyway (tho more consistently now).

[Vara La Fey]

In that case, putting the oil on and sitting outside on a hot day would likely be enough! (I'm not necessarily recommending it - maybe in the shade, but not actually in the sun which is itself damaging for hair.) You could also/instead warm the oil in the sun before applying.
Hot heat tools are catastrophic for hair, and absolutely the first thing to eliminate in the quest for healthy hair as lapushka already said.

I often leave the mask on for 24 hours or more, which includes some outside time. Masking seems to reduce my breakage to almost zero.

Best hair-thing I've done in a long time was a couple weeks ago when I shampooed with my clarifier, rinsed, then coconut oiled for 10 min, rinsed, then conditioned (Sun Bum, no bad ingred's), rinsed and air dried. It literally took 2 hours to dry. I've said this before somewhere around here. Now there's an update.

Yesterday after a 48-hour coconut/olive/avocado oil mask I gently shampooed with my no-sulfate, rinsed, used the same conditioner, rinsed and air dried - and my hair was flyaway straw-frizz and was dry in 20 minutes.

That was even worse than in between those times when I shampooed no-sulfate, didn't condition or add oil, and air dried.

I'm 1C, coarse, dry, stiff, brittle and thin (not many per square inch). This is a lot of trial and error, but I'm determined that these BSL locks WILL be to my waist in 18 months or less.

I never did much with heat anyway, and anything >212F has already been banished. I might yet banish the heat tools at any temp. Sooo many of you have advised that, now and in years-old threads I've read on here. And you're all way ahead of me on hair care.

[Vara La Fey]

Oh no. No no no. Direct heat anyway is hideously damaging and heating oil with a flat iron = frying in my book. Agree with a head wrap, or saran wrap with a towel over top. But, as they say, you do you. It sounds as though you are leaning that way anyway. Let us know how it goes.

I was only ever asking about the iron/oil combo at temps less than water's boiling point. (Maybe a month ago I hot-oil ironed it once at 304F, which got me thinking it was a mistake.) 211F still might damage hair, so I will likely avoid that as well. My operating principle should prolly be: anything too hot to touch with my fingers is too hot to touch with my hair.

So with that in mind I'm considering a flat iron plugged into a dimmer switch (recently suggested by an LHC user) that gets me down to maybe 130F. Or a blowdryer in the same temp range. Else just overnight mask like I've been doing anyway.

I've realized I will never do head-wraps. I know what my hair and low hairline are like from attempts in the past. I'm not banging my head on that wall again.

I'm trying to learn by researching, reading, questions, experiments, and paying attention to results.

Maybe my roomie will do a pic of my hair. It's BSL. And it'll be the Before pic.

[Lady Stardust]

It’s great that coconut oil gives you such good results. I use babassu oil in a similar way, it’s a penetrating oil (as is coconut oil) so it protects the hair before you wash it. I’ve noticed that my hair dries more quickly when I use oil before washing, which makes sense because the oil is slowing down the water entering the hair shaft.

I’m sorry to hear it didn’t go so well yesterday. Maybe it would help to do a clarifying wash, because that could be build up causing the straw like feeling.

[Vara La Fey]

I heavily clarified (Prell classic!) a couple weeks ago, and have avoided non-water soluble silicones since just before that. I doubt it's buildup, esp since the coconut oil does seem to get through enough to stop my breakage.

You're likely right about oil before shampoo leading to frizz. The other day I tried to shampoo gently so as not to destroy the effects of my 48-hour mask, but I'm so used to shampooing brutally that I prolly don't know what "gentle" even is. Frinstance, I didn't rinse first; I just went straight for the shampoo. Sulfate-free, but still designed to remove oils.

And that's partially why I put the oil between the shampoo and conditioner that other time, and may just do it regularly. But a 3-step hair treatment every time will get on my nerves.

Hmm. Could I just throw the oil and conditioner on together, then a quick rinse? One's oil, one's water, but people say all the time "add some oils to your conditioner".

[lapushka]

I heavily clarified (Prell classic!) a couple weeks ago, and have avoided non-water soluble silicones since just before that. I doubt it's buildup, esp since the coconut oil does seem to get through enough to stop my breakage.

You're likely right about oil before shampoo leading to frizz. The other day I tried to shampoo gently so as not to destroy the effects of my 48-hour mask, but I'm so used to shampooing brutally that I prolly don't know what "gentle" even is. Frinstance, I didn't rinse first; I just went straight for the shampoo. Sulfate-free, but still designed to remove oils.

And that's partially why I put the oil between the shampoo and conditioner that other time, and may just do it regularly. But a 3-step hair treatment every time will get on my nerves.

Hmm. Could I just throw the oil and conditioner on together, then a quick rinse? One's oil, one's water, but people say all the time "add some oils to your conditioner".

In an oil rinse, which is what you are in effect doing, some people put the oil on the hair, smack their conditioners on immediately after, then let that sit for a couple minutes, rinse clear. I do a WCC routine, and typically do it after my first condition. So, in between if you will.

Maybe check out the other threads on here, you might find some gems. ;) Before you stick to what you know, explore a little!

[Kathie]

I get your point is that heat makes molecules move more and therefore might offers superior conditioning.

However, there is another way.... increase the time you have the oil on your hair.

Everything moves from organised to disorganised with time (entropy, osmosis, down a concentration gradient, etc). Therefore oils will move from an organised state of being on the outside of your hair into your hair (if they can penetrate) with time.

That raises another point. Not all oils can penetrate hair. So once they are applied no amount of heat is going to move them around.

If your goal is to use heat to make sure the oils are distributed evenly over the outside of your hair then another option is to use a good amount of oil, rather than heat.

[Kathie]

Hehe... I can see a pun in the title when considering that flat irons are linked to breakage.

Flat irons for a. short. cut.

[baanoo]

I get your point is that heat makes molecules move more and therefore might offers superior conditioning.

However, there is another way.... increase the time you have the oil on your hair.

Everything moves from organised to disorganised with time (entropy, osmosis, down a concentration gradient, etc). Therefore oils will move from an organised state of being on the outside of your hair into your hair (if they can penetrate) with time.

That raises another point. Not all oils can penetrate hair. So once they are applied no amount of heat is going to move them around.

If your goal is to use heat to make sure the oils are distributed evenly over the outside of your hair then another option is to use a good amount of oil, rather than heat.

When I do an oil treatment, I douse it well and leave it on overnight. I then mist my hair with water and apply conditioner before I get in the shower. Leaving it in overnight works wonders for me!

[Vara La Fey]

In an oil rinse, which is what you are in effect doing, some people put the oil on the hair, smack their conditioners on immediately after, then let that sit for a couple minutes, rinse clear. I do a WCC routine, and typically do it after my first condition. So, in between if you will.
Maybe check out the other threads on here, you might find some gems. ;) Before you stick to what you know, explore a little!

Thanks. I need to do more research, as some ingredients (like cones) "lock in" the others, and my routine should conform to hair structure per se, from the inside out. I.e.: water, fatty alcohols, oils, then water-soluble cones? Or just water, fatty alcohols, oils and no cones of any kind? I really don't know, and learning it could save a lot of trial and error.

[Vara La Fey]

I get your point is that heat makes molecules move more and therefore might offers superior conditioning.
However, there is another way.... increase the time you have the oil on your hair.
Everything moves from organised to disorganised with time (entropy, osmosis, down a concentration gradient, etc). Therefore oils will move from an organised state of being on the outside of your hair into your hair (if they can penetrate) with time.
That raises another point. Not all oils can penetrate hair. So once they are applied no amount of heat is going to move them around.
If your goal is to use heat to make sure the oils are distributed evenly over the outside of your hair then another option is to use a good amount of oil, rather than heat.

Yes, moving the molecules was def the point, rather than to use heat for any other purpose. I sometimes do long masks with coconut oil: up to 2 days at a time. As to oils themselves, I stay with small-molecule stuff, and wouldn't touch mineral oil or other petroleum.

I need to learn hair structure from the inside out and build a routine which conforms to it. I'll post what my "research" finds. Right now I'm kinda throwing darts in the dark. Esp if my hair is as high-porosity and fragile as I suspect, it might have special needs.

[Vara La Fey]

Hehe... I can see a pun in the title when considering that flat irons are linked to breakage.
Flat irons for a. short. cut.

Tee hee. Pun was not intended, but is likely appropriate. I've been talked out of using any higher temps than my skin can withstand. I like the dimmer switch idea someone here mentioned, which I see as reducing the iron's heat to normal hot oil temps, but keeping the oil from cooling off before it can be applied (and none of this oil bottles in water bowls stuff). At 140(?) F I suppose I could make many passes with the iron, then a gentle washing a couple hrs later...?

[baanoo]

Yes, moving the molecules was def the point, rather than to use heat for any other purpose. I sometimes do long masks with coconut oil: up to 2 days at a time. As to oils themselves, I stay with small-molecule stuff, and wouldn't touch mineral oil or other petroleum.

I need to learn hair structure from the inside out and build a routine which conforms to it. I'll post what my "research" finds. Right now I'm kinda throwing darts in the dark. Esp if my hair is as high-porosity and fragile as I suspect, it might have special needs.

Have you seen the Science-y Hair Blog?

[Vara La Fey]

When I do an oil treatment, I douse it well and leave it on overnight. I then mist my hair with water and apply conditioner before I get in the shower. Leaving it in overnight works wonders for me!

For me too. I'm coarse/dry and maybe fragile/high-porosity 1C, and the coconut oil masking almost completely stops my breakage.

But my wash routine is still experimental and maybe not right yet. I still often see frizz/straw/fly-away after washing, and I'm pretty confident in the ingredients themselves, so I'm prolly doing the wash/oil/cond/leave-in components in the wrong order for the way hair is structured. Very frustrating to mask for 48 hours, gently wash, and still end up with fly-away straw.

[Vara La Fey]

Have you seen the Science-y Hair Blog?

Yes, thanks. Healthline too. And ManeAddicts seems decent. I've also seen about 10 million blogs for "natural" type 4 hair, which totally isn't 1C me, but they're good blogs and we do have natural dryness and natural breakage in common.

[lapushka]

Thanks. I need to do more research, as some ingredients (like cones) "lock in" the others, and my routine should conform to hair structure per se, from the inside out. I.e.: water, fatty alcohols, oils, then water-soluble cones? Or just water, fatty alcohols, oils and no cones of any kind? I really don't know, and learning it could save a lot of trial and error.

Think of it this way. If silicones really... really would lock in moisture, there's no wetting down hair, no hair getting drenched in rain, nothing of the sort, and that sure doesn't happen. Right? So... Like anything, with a grain of salt that moisture locking.

[Vara La Fey]

Think of it this way. If silicones really... really would lock in moisture, there's no wetting down hair, no hair getting drenched in rain, nothing of the sort, and that sure doesn't happen. Right? So... Like anything, with a grain of salt that moisture locking.

That's a good point. I'm not sure locking in and locking out are equal (they could be like a 2way mirror), but safer to assume they are.

Plus I don't understand how humidity adds moisture and makes your hair frizzy, when you're supposed to add moisture to help keep frizz away. Certainly wet hair loses its frizz.

[foreveryours]

That's a good point. I'm not sure locking in and locking out are equal (they could be like a 2way mirror), but safer to assume they are.

Plus I don't understand how humidity adds moisture and makes your hair frizzy, when you're supposed to add moisture to help keep frizz away. Certainly wet hair loses its frizz.

It is puzzling, isn't it? :p

[elaina]

Tee hee. Pun was not intended, but is likely appropriate. I've been talked out of using any higher temps than my skin can withstand. I like the dimmer switch idea someone here mentioned, which I see as reducing the iron's heat to normal hot oil temps, but keeping the oil from cooling off before it can be applied (and none of this oil bottles in water bowls stuff). At 140(?) F I suppose I could make many passes with the iron, then a gentle washing a couple hrs later...?

i dont think this will work, for example with a dimmer switch on a lamp or even on your wall youre only supposed to use them with dimable light bulbs, otherwise theyll flicker. thinking about it more, i dont just think that its dangerous, but how would a dimmer switch make a flat iron less hot by giving it less power? i feel like it would possibly just flicker like a lightbulb which might keep it from even getting hot in the first place. i guess try it if you want, but it doesnt sound safe or like it would work to me.

[Joules]

Sometimes frizz and straw are just natural texture. Who said that silky soft is the definition of healthy hair?

Like, my hair is frizzy. Point blank period. It's wavy, but I choose not to partake in the curly girl method because I never wear my hair down, and with buns it's just easier to have it brushed. And it's just that, frizzy. As long as it's not splitting or breaking off, I'm fine with it. I can somewhat smooth out the frizz when I'm blow drying (I blow dry on the cool setting and point the blow dryer down so it straightens my hair out somewhat).

When I did oil treatments I just put a shower cap and a wool hat over it to keep it warm.

P.S. Sarah Ingle on YT has great videos on hair science, especially that one where she explains why moisture can actually make our hair feel dry.

[Vara La Fey]

i dont think this will work, for example with a dimmer switch on a lamp or even on your wall youre only supposed to use them with dimable light bulbs, otherwise theyll flicker. thinking about it more, i dont just think that its dangerous, but how would a dimmer switch make a flat iron less hot by giving it less power? i feel like it would possibly just flicker like a lightbulb which might keep it from even getting hot in the first place. i guess try it if you want, but it doesnt sound safe or like it would work to me.

Dunno, I've never tried a dimmer that way. Don't see how it would be dangerous, but your flicker point is a valid possibility. Doesn't matter atm, cause I'm too low on funds to buy experimental things.

[elaina]

Dunno, I've never tried a dimmer that way. Don't see how it would be dangerous, but your flicker point is a valid possibility. Doesn't matter atm, cause I'm too low on funds to buy experimental things.

plugging things into things they arent meant to be plugged into is generally a no no, like youre not supposed to plug heaters into extension cords.

[Vara La Fey]

Sometimes frizz and straw are just natural texture. Who said that silky soft is the definition of healthy hair?
Like, my hair is frizzy. Point blank period. It's wavy, but I choose not to partake in the curly girl method because I never wear my hair down, and with buns it's just easier to have it brushed. And it's just that, frizzy. As long as it's not splitting or breaking off, I'm fine with it. I can somewhat smooth out the frizz when I'm blow drying (I blow dry on the cool setting and point the blow dryer down so it straightens my hair out somewhat).
When I did oil treatments I just put a shower cap and a wool hat over it to keep it warm.
P.S. Sarah Ingle on YT has great videos on hair science, especially that one where she explains why moisture can actually make our hair feel dry.

Well, everyone says silky soft is the definition of healthy hair. Of course "everyone" says a lot of horrible falsehoods. It occurs to me only now - cause me blonde and me all like smart and stuff, right?? - well, it occurs that the obvious way to test one's own personal hair health (we need a better term, since hair is dead) is to compare the length and the ends to the first 3-6" of hair at your scalp. For most of us, that 3-6" is natural(ish) and hasn't been destroyed yet. The goal of hair care should be to keep the ends the same as that new growth. I doubt the ends can be improved much from that.

My hair is apparently 1C, naturally coarse, and maybe not naturally dry and straw-like so much as high porosity so it becomes dry and straw-like too easily. Near the scalp it really doesn't feel like that; it feels smooth, a bit soft, def coarse, and very strong, if that makes sense. It's hard to tell right now because yesterday I tried Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle conditioner, and all of my hair feels more "silky soft" than maybe it ever has. (Great, right? Well, that conditioner has been discontinued and is already hard to find. But I put the ingredients in my spreadsheet.)

In your photos your hair looks a lot like mine. Is it coarse as well? Frizz seems to be waves/curls where the hair don't wave/curl in the same direction at the same time. That's the case for me, and looks like for you as well. We can commiserate together! :-)

I know that blowdryer routine very well. It can frizz the ends tho.

Just looked up Sarah Ingle, and gonna watch right now. Thanks. :-)

[Vara La Fey]

plugging things into things they arent meant to be plugged into is generally a no no, like youre not supposed to plug heaters into extension cords.

That's if the appliance draws more power than the extension can handle. A heavier extension will be fine.

[Joules]

Well, everyone says silky soft is the definition of healthy hair. Of course "everyone" says a lot of horrible falsehoods. It occurs to me only now - cause me blonde and me all like smart and stuff, right?? - well, it occurs that the obvious way to test one's own personal hair health (we need a better term, since hair is dead) is to compare the length and the ends to the first 3-6" of hair at your scalp. For most of us, that 3-6" is natural(ish) and hasn't been destroyed yet. The goal of hair care should be to keep the ends the same as that new growth. I doubt the ends can be improved much from that.

My hair is apparently 1C, naturally coarse, and maybe not naturally dry and straw-like so much as high porosity so it becomes dry and straw-like too easily. Near the scalp it really doesn't feel like that; it feels smooth, a bit soft, def coarse, and very strong, if that makes sense. It's hard to tell right now because yesterday I tried Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle conditioner, and all of my hair feels more "silky soft" than maybe it ever has. (Great, right? Well, that conditioner has been discontinued and is already hard to find. But I put the ingredients in my spreadsheet.)

In your photos your hair looks a lot like mine. Is it coarse as well? Frizz seems to be waves/curls where the hair don't wave/curl in the same direction at the same time. That's the case for me, and looks like for you as well. We can commiserate together! :-)

I know that blowdryer routine very well. It can frizz the ends tho.

Just looked up Sarah Ingle, and gonna watch right now. Thanks. :-)

Comparing ends with roots might be a better idea, although roots tend to get more of that natural sebum and may feel softer than the rest of your hair. Maybe comparing ends to mid-length would be more informative? Also if your hair is on the longer side your ends will be damaged no matter what, that's just how hair works, even the gentlest washing and detangling will damage it over time. That's another thing to keep in mind.

My hair is quite soft (and slippery af because I use obscene amounts of conditioner). My ends do sometimes become dry if I wear it down or in a braid, my guess it's because they are more porous and lose moisture easily (or it may mean I need a clarifying wash). I haven't worn it down in a while so I may not remember exactly how it behaves. I wear it in buns all the time and it's silky soft all over. It often looks like straw though, so... :lol:

[lapushka]

Yeah, there's no such thing as "Pantene hair". A little fuzz & frizz is normal. I think maybe a lot of people aren't used to seeing normal hair anymore, being around people who flatiron the bejeezes out of their hair etc. and so forth. Yeah. No good. :(

[Vara La Fey]

Comparing ends with roots might be a better idea, although roots tend to get more of that natural sebum and may feel softer than the rest of your hair. Maybe comparing ends to mid-length would be more informative? Also if your hair is on the longer side your ends will be damaged no matter what, that's just how hair works, even the gentlest washing and detangling will damage it over time. That's another thing to keep in mind.
My hair is quite soft (and slippery af because I use obscene amounts of conditioner). My ends do sometimes become dry if I wear it down or in a braid, my guess it's because they are more porous and lose moisture easily (or it may mean I need a clarifying wash). I haven't worn it down in a while so I may not remember exactly how it behaves. I wear it in buns all the time and it's silky soft all over. It often looks like straw though, so... :lol:

I still think comparing to 3-6" growth will tell you best what your hair is like when it's original, undamaged and not slathered in oil from the scalp. Mid-length hair is just too old to be an accurate baseline. Especially for the Rapunzels on here, whose mid-length hair is 3-5 years old.

Cuticles degrade over time, if I understand correctly. So ends will usually be a little damaged and frizzy just from that. But I'd think that proper care should keep the strands intact until the follicle sheds them. Whatever "proper care" is for any individual.

Thanks for the Sarah Ingle referral. She's addictive!

Can someone explain why so many of you wear buns? Why grow your hair so long only to hide its length? I can understand protective styles when sleeping or working under the hood of your car or whatever, but why do so many of you hide your beautiful and hard-earned hair in buns so much of the time? I'm proud to let my BSL hair flow, and I'm sure I'll be far prouder when it's down to my beltline. Otherwise I see no point in all the learning, maintenance and stress over it; might as well just get a pixie (ugh!).

[Vara La Fey]

Yeah, there's no such thing as "Pantene hair". A little fuzz & frizz is normal. I think maybe a lot of people aren't used to seeing normal hair anymore, being around people who flatiron the bejeezes out of their hair etc. and so forth. Yeah. No good. :(

Pantene hair is def a thing. I've known a couple ladies who had Pantene hair, at the least. No fuzz or frizz on either of them, but hair like theirs is certainly rare.

I don't think "normal" hair has been all that common since the curling iron in the 70s(?).

[Lady Stardust]

Can someone explain why so many of you wear buns? Why grow your hair so long only to hide its length? I can understand protective styles when sleeping or working under the hood of your car or whatever, but why do so many of you hide your beautiful and hard-earned hair in buns so much of the time? I'm proud to let my BSL hair flow, and I'm sure I'll be far prouder when it's down to my beltline. Otherwise I see no point in all the learning, maintenance and stress over it; might as well just get a pixie (ugh!).

This question comes up so often the mods linked a thread in the reference section :)
https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=118379

[lapis_lazuli]

Can someone explain why so many of you wear buns? Why grow your hair so long only to hide its length? I can understand protective styles when sleeping or working under the hood of your car or whatever, but why do so many of you hide your beautiful and hard-earned hair in buns so much of the time? I'm proud to let my BSL hair flow, and I'm sure I'll be far prouder when it's down to my beltline. Otherwise I see no point in all the learning, maintenance and stress over it; might as well just get a pixie (ugh!).

I wore my hair loose or braided until it was Classic length. You don't have to necessarily wear long hair up all the time, it's just that tends to be the most practical style beyond a certain length (and sometimes the only way it will continue to grow). The range of buns and hairtoys is fun in and of itself :)

[MusicalSpoons]

Can someone explain why so many of you wear buns? Why grow your hair so long only to hide its length? I can understand protective styles when sleeping or working under the hood of your car or whatever, but why do so many of you hide your beautiful and hard-earned hair in buns so much of the time? I'm proud to let my BSL hair flow, and I'm sure I'll be far prouder when it's down to my beltline.

Practicality, protection, and if I didn't it would never have got this long :p I didn't get past tailbone length until I discovered LHC and learned how to use sticks and forks to stop mangling the ends. Before that I kept it tied back/up anyway for practicality.


Otherwise I see no point in all the learning, maintenance and stress over it; might as well just get a pixie (ugh!).

Nah, way more maintenance and expense to keep that style! Imagine having to have it cut every 6-8 weeks *shudders* And learning is fun, having long hair can be just like any other hobby.

[Zesty]

I would add that some of us grow long for the purpose of doing hairstyles like buns. I sometimes think of my hair as raw material to do fun things. It's also primarily for me and my enjoyment, rather than for public display.

Don't get me wrong, I like my hair down sometimes and showing it off can be fun, but there are all kinds of mindsets behind growing long hair. But if you prefer your hair down by all means do what makes you happy! :)

[SandyBottom]

I wore mine loose, ponytailed, or braided up until classic. I love having it down and it's always nice to get the compliments, but having it in those styles left it vulnerable to tons of damage and I noticed less "Your hair is gorgeous!" and more "Your hair is so long!". I also got very tired of people telling me what I SHOULD do with it. When it's in a bun, it's protected and people can only guess at how long it is. I love experimenting with buns and oils, rinses and care in general. It's there for my enjoyment and I still get compliments on my buns (hahaha, couldn't resist!) and when I redo a bun or it comes tumbling down, people do get a bit of a surprise at how long it is. It's very much an enjoyable hobby/experiment for me. That's just how I feel.

[lapushka]

Long story short, long hair gets in the way of things. Also, I would rather not be ogled or oohed and aahed over either. So it is very easy to bun, and buns are little works of art in and of itself. My entire purpose for having long hair is to bun it! I just love the style.

[Joules]

Can someone explain why so many of you wear buns? Why grow your hair so long only to hide its length? I can understand protective styles when sleeping or working under the hood of your car or whatever, but why do so many of you hide your beautiful and hard-earned hair in buns so much of the time? I'm proud to let my BSL hair flow, and I'm sure I'll be far prouder when it's down to my beltline. Otherwise I see no point in all the learning, maintenance and stress over it; might as well just get a pixie (ugh!).

Come back when your hair actually reaches your belt line :D long hair is something else, I'm telling ya :D

Protection is the most obvious answer. It tangles in the wind, it rubs against the clothing, it gets in the way like you wouldn't believe (I recently reached Classic and I can't even sit down with my hair loose). Over time it becomes a habit, like, I actually feel weird when my hair isn't in a bun, it's like going outside in a nightgown.

Then there's a personal thing - I'm not some pretty bauble for other people to gawk at. My hair grows out of my head to please me and only me. I need my hair to be long because it's a weird desire I've had since I was a child, whenever I cut it shorter my first thought always is "omg why did I do it". It doesn't mean I'm not proud of it, I very much am, I just don't feel like I need other people's approval to fuel that pride.

[Kathie]

I'm also a fan of having / growing my hair because of the updos I can do with length. Not just the length when down.

Not to mention being able to use hairtoys! Not until LHC did I ever consider, or know how, to wear beautiful crafted one-of-a-kind artistic creations or semiprecious gems in my hair.

[foreveryours]

Come back when your hair actually reaches your belt line :D long hair is something else, I'm telling ya :D



THIS.

As a guy, as I remember it, midback was a fairly painless length. It's "long" but not really long enough to interfere with life as you know it. Tangles were essentially nonexistent until about kidney, and the experience has continued to unfold from there. All because your hair grows but your bones do not.

[shelomit]

THIS.
Tangles were essentially nonexistent until about kidney,

That's a new body marker for me! (Though I'll readily admit that it makes more sense anatomically than some of the standard ones.)

[Vara La Fey]

Long story short, long hair gets in the way of things. Also, I would rather not be ogled or oohed and aahed over either. So it is very easy to bun, and buns are little works of art in and of itself. My entire purpose for having long hair is to bun it! I just love the style.

Thanks, Lapushka and thanks all of you for the answers.

Three things seem to be fairly universal here and in the thread someone posted the link for.

1. Super long hair gets tangled in the whole world.
I guessed that. :-)
And y'all are right that I haven't experienced truly long hair yet. But I've read posts of "things my hair got tangled in". Yikes. But thanks for labelling the minefield for me!

2. Super long hair brings out a dark side in a lot of onlookers.
I wouldn't have guessed this, but I should have because as a transwoman I've seen the same sht-throwing tribe-monkey attitude, so I feel your pain and then some.
Personally, I wouldn't closet myself for anything or any cause or anyone else's ignorant little opinion, due to 'the world' not having a single right or qualification to tell me (or you) how to live. Personally I also carry a deadly weapon, just in case 'the world' tries to overstep its rights and qualifications - which fortunately it hasn't, tho close a few times. This is a practice I also wouldn't closet for anything or any cause or anyone else's ignorant opinion, and due to 'the world's' exact same lack of rights and qualifications.
Obviously I suggest that if you want to wear your hair flowing, then wear your hair flowing. If you don't, then don't. It still seems odd that there is a stigma against super long hair. Is it a post "Bride of Frankenstein" thing? Wasn't "classic length" commonplace just 3-4 generations ago? Just what "classic" era does the phrase refer to? This stigma completely boggles me.

3. Super long hair is a wonderful playground for experimentation with updos.
Again, I wouldn't have guessed, but it explains all the bun pics I see in avatars here. I'm glad that you all have so much fun with it.
The reason I wouldn't have guessed is that I never looked at buns as fun (and I still can't). That's because my motivations and goals are different, which is prolly the case with everyone who asks that question. If we see all these buns with the beautiful accessories and we still don't get it - if we have to ask about it like I just did - then we're approaching hair from a whole other perspective.
In my personal perspective, I have always loved beautiful super-feminine High-Self-Esteem hair in the range of waist-TBL. I think that's the ideal length to accent a woman's curves because it flows around her top curves in the front, it sort of vertically underlines her top curves in the back, and it reaches down to join with her lower curves at the beltline in front, sides and back. It accents, but doesn't obscure. I've just always thought there is a spectacular beauty and grace in all that. (I think hair works much differently on men, but can work very well.) So, being a transwoman, that is a beauty and grace I would love to earn for myself, if I can. Of course I see it as a very sex-appeal thing because it absolutely is, and although I do it for me, 'the world' is encouraged to see and appreciate it so long as 'the world' minds its manners. Like writing a song you believe in: you do it for you, but you still want to share with anyone likely to appreciate it (or to fear it, if you're an iconoclast!).
Transwomen (and transmen) have to earn many things which were given to everyone else at birth. So we kinda go overboard, and what we do earn is so much sweeter than their equivalents were in our past pre-trans lives.

Prolly more than you wanted to know, but it's a perspective you won't get every day, and y'all are so nice and generous sharing your own perspectives. :-)

[lapushka]

Thanks, Lapushka and thanks all of you for the answers.

Three things seem to be fairly universal here and in the thread someone posted the link for.

1. Super long hair gets tangled in the whole world.
I guessed that. :-)
And y'all are right that I haven't experienced truly long hair yet. But I've read posts of "things my hair got tangled in". Yikes. But thanks for labelling the minefield for me!

2. Super long hair brings out a dark side in a lot of onlookers.
I wouldn't have guessed this, but I should have because as a transwoman I've seen the same sht-throwing tribe-monkey attitude, so I feel your pain and then some.
Personally, I wouldn't closet myself for anything or any cause or anyone else's ignorant little opinion, due to 'the world' not having a single right or qualification to tell me (or you) how to live. Personally I also carry a deadly weapon, just in case 'the world' tries to overstep its rights and qualifications - which fortunately it hasn't, tho close a few times. This is a practice I also wouldn't closet for anything or any cause or anyone else's ignorant opinion, and due to 'the world's' exact same lack of rights and qualifications.
Obviously I suggest that if you want to wear your hair flowing, then wear your hair flowing. If you don't, then don't. It still seems odd that there is a stigma against super long hair. Is it a post "Bride of Frankenstein" thing? Wasn't "classic length" commonplace just 3-4 generations ago? Just what "classic" era does the phrase refer to? This stigma completely boggles me.

3. Super long hair is a wonderful playground for experimentation with updos.
Again, I wouldn't have guessed, but it explains all the bun pics I see in avatars here. I'm glad that you all have so much fun with it.
The reason I wouldn't have guessed is that I never looked at buns as fun (and I still can't). That's because my motivations and goals are different, which is prolly the case with everyone who asks that question. If we see all these buns with the beautiful accessories and we still don't get it - if we have to ask about it like I just did - then we're approaching hair from a whole other perspective.
In my personal perspective, I have always loved beautiful super-feminine High-Self-Esteem hair in the range of waist-TBL. I think that's the ideal length to accent a woman's curves because it flows around her top curves in the front, it sort of vertically underlines her top curves in the back, and it reaches down to join with her lower curves at the beltline in front, sides and back. It accents, but doesn't obscure. I've just always thought there is a spectacular beauty and grace in all that. (I think hair works much differently on men, but can work very well.) So, being a transwoman, that is a beauty and grace I would love to earn for myself, if I can. Of course I see it as a very sex-appeal thing because it absolutely is, and although I do it for me, 'the world' is encouraged to see and appreciate it so long as 'the world' minds its manners. Like writing a song you believe in: you do it for you, but you still want to share with anyone likely to appreciate it (or to fear it, if you're an iconoclast!).
Transwomen (and transmen) have to earn many things which were given to everyone else at birth. So we kinda go overboard, and what we do earn is so much sweeter than their equivalents were in our past pre-trans lives.

Prolly more than you wanted to know, but it's a perspective you won't get every day, and y'all are so nice and generous sharing your own perspectives. :-)

LOL. I have to thank you for that. Personally, long hair is just "a bother" for me down, which is why the occasion that I do wear it down is rare & special (see signature). On wash day I "whip it out". LOL, but that's about it, and it goes up in clips to air dry as fast as you can blink. But I would rather not "style" my hair day to day, and I would need to, with shorter hair, which is why I grew it to a length for bunning (which with my thickness is around hip & longer).

Yeah, there are so many threads around. I suggest sitting back & reading up some. Many questions have been asked before, so many times. :)

[SandyBottom]

I really enjoyed reading this post and hearing your perspective, Vara.

[Vara La Fey]

LOL. I have to thank you for that. Personally, long hair is just "a bother" for me down, which is why the occasion that I do wear it down is rare & special (see signature). On wash day I "whip it out". LOL, but that's about it, and it goes up in clips to air dry as fast as you can blink. But I would rather not "style" my hair day to day, and I would need to, with shorter hair, which is why I grew it to a length for bunning (which with my thickness is around hip & longer).
Yeah, there are so many threads around. I suggest sitting back & reading up some. Many questions have been asked before, so many times. :)

I need to learn bunning, or whatever is the safest method to keep it out of harm's way. As a transwoman, I have an odd mix of skill and incompetence. :-/

ATM I just do semi-gentle pony tail (I bought wonderful soft cloth-covered elastic ties off Amazon), and now I started doing a tie at the skull and another halfway down, since it's now long enough to need 2 or even 3. :-) But a lot of you don't think pony tails are hair-safe either....?

Those old threads are a rabbit hole I've been down a couple times. Once when I was searching for answers to this thread's very question about using low-heat flat iron for a quick hot oil fix. I never found anything with that little twist on it. I do try to search first, but dozens of pages sometimes spanning well over a decade is a lot to go through.

But I'm done with rabbit holes for the next few days, cause I Just spent the last few days on Pinterest searching for my dream hair, inspired by the "DREAM hair" thread, of course! I think the Pinterest rabbit hole has caught a few of us. OMG there's incredible hair out there, even for my modest waist-TBL goals. I found stuff my 1C can do, stuff it can maybe do, hair to just ogle over, style ideas, cut type ideas - I even more precisely figured out why long hair is so romantically and sexually appealing - and I just got a lot of general inspo. Still figuring out how to thin the herd I downloaded. Yeah, it was time well spent, but wow....

[Vara La Fey]

I really enjoyed reading this post and hearing your perspective, Vara.

Thanks. :-)

[Joules]

I need to learn bunning, or whatever is the safest method to keep it out of harm's way. As a transwoman, I have an odd mix of skill and incompetence. :-

It's not about you being a trans woman, believe it or not, my very cis mother learned to deal with her 3b curls only when she was in her 50s. She spent all her life cutting it very short and straightening it. She also had no idea how to deal with my straight(ish) hair which almost made me go bald when I was ~4 :lol: (well, not actually bald, but there was a possibility for all my hair to fall off due to insane breakage).

But yes, overall your perspective is quite different from most of ours, and your post was eye-opening in a way (I've never thought about hair like this, I mean, I saw that it flatters female bodies, but I never analyzed it in such a way). Ultimately your hair is for your own enjoyment and if you want to wear it down all the time, it's still possible to grow it long this way, albeit a bit more difficult and time-consuming.

If you want any advice on how to navigate the ocean of hair care advice - I'd say stick to the simple things. It really doesn't have to be difficult at all. Most of those gorgeous buns you see on avatars here are easier than basic English braids :) it works for actual hair care too, there's a thread somewhere here where people with tailbone+ lengths share their routines, and they're surprisingly simple. I spent like 8 years doting on my hair and avoiding all sorts of ingredients (to no avail), only to come here and switch back to pantene almost immediately :lol:

[lapushka]

I need to learn bunning, or whatever is the safest method to keep it out of harm's way. As a transwoman, I have an odd mix of skill and incompetence. :-/

ATM I just do semi-gentle pony tail (I bought wonderful soft cloth-covered elastic ties off Amazon), and now I started doing a tie at the skull and another halfway down, since it's now long enough to need 2 or even 3. :-) But a lot of you don't think pony tails are hair-safe either....?

Those old threads are a rabbit hole I've been down a couple times. Once when I was searching for answers to this thread's very question about using low-heat flat iron for a quick hot oil fix. I never found anything with that little twist on it. I do try to search first, but dozens of pages sometimes spanning well over a decade is a lot to go through.

But I'm done with rabbit holes for the next few days, cause I Just spent the last few days on Pinterest searching for my dream hair, inspired by the "DREAM hair" thread, of course! I think the Pinterest rabbit hole has caught a few of us. OMG there's incredible hair out there, even for my modest waist-TBL goals. I found stuff my 1C can do, stuff it can maybe do, hair to just ogle over, style ideas, cut type ideas - I even more precisely figured out why long hair is so romantically and sexually appealing - and I just got a lot of general inspo. Still figuring out how to thin the herd I downloaded. Yeah, it was time well spent, but wow....

You'll learn fast enough, and as fast as anyone learning to bun! Don't discourage yourself, this has 0 to do with gender. Truthfully. Just with practice and some skill (skill that you learn by practice and some more practice).

If a ponytail is all you can do / manage, it'll have to do, you know? And no you don't do harm to the hair by wearing them. Just don't get the ties that have the "old" metal pieces on, that's all! Preferably scrunchies. Or the softer elastics.

Yeah that's true, so much info out there. It can be difficult sometimes! :)

[Vara La Fey]

It's not about you being a trans woman, believe it or not, my very cis mother learned to deal with her 3b curls only when she was in her 50s.
[...]
(I've never thought about hair like this, I mean, I saw that it flatters female bodies, but I never analyzed it in such a way).
[...]
If you want any advice on how to navigate the ocean of hair care advice - I'd say stick to the simple things. It really doesn't have to be difficult at all. Most of those gorgeous buns you see on avatars here are easier than basic English braids :) it works for actual hair care too, there's a thread somewhere here where people with tailbone+ lengths share their routines, and they're surprisingly simple. I spent like 8 years doting on my hair and avoiding all sorts of ingredients (to no avail), only to come here and switch back to pantene almost immediately :lol:

I can relate to your mom. I started transitioning late in life, so even after 9 years I'm still picking up skills that most cis women already have by their mid-teens.

After spending all that time on Pinterest searching hair role models and other hair-thingies, my body-flattering analysis goes even further now. I kept asking myself, "what in addition to contours is going on here?" Enlightening, I think. Def interesting subject. And inspirational!!

Funny that you mention "to no avail" and switching back to Pantene. I was just watching YT vids and reading comments where a lot of people seem to switch back to sulfates and non-water soluble silicones and say that their results are better. Hair may be even more individually dependent than we think. But I've personally been off 'fates and the "bad" 'cones for 3 weeks, and in this short time I love the new results.

Thx for stay-simple advice. I'm trying to do that, as there is so much to learn. Plus, trying to correlate the last 10 years of my growth with my diet/environment/care is giving me mixed signals. So that's a bit of a worry.

[Vara La Fey]

You'll learn fast enough, and as fast as anyone learning to bun! Don't discourage yourself, this has 0 to do with gender. Truthfully. Just with practice and some skill (skill that you learn by practice and some more practice).
If a ponytail is all you can do / manage, it'll have to do, you know? And no you don't do harm to the hair by wearing them. Just don't get the ties that have the "old" metal pieces on, that's all! Preferably scrunchies. Or the softer elastics.
Yeah that's true, so much info out there. It can be difficult sometimes! :)

The relevance to trans is that I didn't gain certain skills early in life, so I'm playing catch-up now. It's a fairly common trans issue. I prolly coulda been more clear about that.

Ponytail is my limit for this week, but I will look into buns for getting it further out of the way. For esthetics I might start playing with half-up styles now that it's long enough for some of those.

I no longer use the metal-banded ties or the rubber band type. A few mo ago I bought fabric-covered hair ties - this was prolly my first purchase of my new attitude toward my hair. These are soooo much better than any ties I've ever used.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B088LZRCM5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Lady Stardust]

The relevance to trans is that I didn't gain certain skills early in life, so I'm playing catch-up now. It's a fairly common trans issue. I prolly coulda been more clear about that.

Ponytail is my limit for this week, but I will look into buns for getting it further out of the way. For esthetics I might start playing with half-up styles now that it's long enough for some of those.

I no longer use the metal-banded ties or the rubber band type. A few mo ago I bought fabric-covered hair ties - this was prolly my first purchase of my new attitude toward my hair. These are soooo much better than any ties I've ever used.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B088LZRCM5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Half ups are a good way to learn buns (if that’s what you want to do eventually), because you have less hair to wrangle with and it is proportionally longer in relation to width, which makes it easier to deal with.

I learned how to plait (braid) when I was little but I could never manage a French plait until a couple of years ago, when I decided to give it another try. When it comes to doing my daughter’s hair, my husband feels at a massive disadvantage because he didn’t learn how to plait when he was younger (being a short haired male with no sisters!) so that job is left to me. It’s a confidence thing. Once you build some muscle memory you’ll be fine :)

[Joules]

Funny that you mention "to no avail" and switching back to Pantene. I was just watching YT vids and reading comments where a lot of people seem to switch back to sulfates and non-water soluble silicones and say that their results are better. Hair may be even more individually dependent than we think. But I've personally been off 'fates and the "bad" 'cones for 3 weeks, and in this short time I love the new results.

That's exactly my story! I loved the first maybe year on sulfate and silicone-free routine, then it quickly went downhill. I couldn't grow past hip and my hair was unbelievably dry. Now I use sulfates all over my length every wash and it's perfect. My point is that there's no universal list of bad ingredients, your hair might be very happy with something that others consider harmful.

I learned how to French braid when I was 12. It took me like an entire summer with daily practice, but it was well worth it! Also, it was my Dad who taught me to braid my dolls' hair when I was 4 or 5, which makes me chuckle to this day.

[SandyBottom]

Also, it was my Dad who taught me to braid my dolls' hair when I was 4 or 5, which makes me chuckle to this day.
Aww, that is so sweet!

[Zesty]

Keep us updated on which products you like as your journey continues. :) Similar story to others, I tried sulfate and silicone free for a while (along with many other experiments, like egg washing) but in the end I'm back to silicones for sure and sulfates aren't off the table. My current shampoo that works so well for me is technically sulfate free but it's got Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate as the primary surfactant so it might as well. Keep in mind too that while we like to single out ingredients, the overall formulation is usually more important (unless you're allergic to something) and it's hard to say what will work unless you try it.

I learned to French braid and make buns pretty late for a cis woman I think, I was 18 or 19 and taught myself via YouTube. I can definitely see it being a factor in hair care if no one taught you!

[Vara La Fey]

That's exactly my story! I loved the first maybe year on sulfate and silicone-free routine, then it quickly went downhill. I couldn't grow past hip and my hair was unbelievably dry. Now I use sulfates all over my length every wash and it's perfect. My point is that there's no universal list of bad ingredients, your hair might be very happy with something that others consider harmful.
I learned how to French braid when I was 12. It took me like an entire summer with daily practice, but it was well worth it! Also, it was my Dad who taught me to braid my dolls' hair when I was 4 or 5, which makes me chuckle to this day.

Hair differences might not be just individual. I also gotta wonder if it changes its mood. "Now I like this." "Now I don't."

That was sweet of your dad. :-)

Braiding scares me because my hair is hard to work with. Stiff, coarse and clings to itself (tho not very tangly). Sectioning is the nightmare I fear. Not the actual braiding.

[Vara La Fey]

Keep us updated on which products you like as your journey continues. :) Similar story to others, I tried sulfate and silicone free for a while (along with many other experiments, like egg washing) but in the end I'm back to silicones for sure and sulfates aren't off the table. My current shampoo that works so well for me is technically sulfate free but it's got Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate as the primary surfactant so it might as well. Keep in mind too that while we like to single out ingredients, the overall formulation is usually more important (unless you're allergic to something) and it's hard to say what will work unless you try it.
I learned to French braid and make buns pretty late for a cis woman I think, I was 18 or 19 and taught myself via YouTube. I can definitely see it being a factor in hair care if no one taught you!

If you meant me, I will keep everyone updated. I always gotta whine, brag or question about something. Just updated the Routine section of my Bio.

Only recent change for me is I cleaned an empty apt for my landlord and found an abandoned bottle of Trader Joes Tea Tree Orgasm. Errr.... Tea Tree Afterglow. No.... it's Tea Tree "Tingle", apparently. Best my hair has felt in maybe ever. All kindsa leaf extracts and such, nothing that looks remotely bad. Perfect whirlwind love affair, right?

IT'S BEEN DISCONTINUED. Grrr #!$%$!!#$% grrrrr %!^#%!@#$%....

I listed all the ingredies in my xls, so I hopefully can find a substitute when the bottle runs out.

People say that egg and similar proteins' molecules are too big to do anything for the hair. Basically like trying to drop marbles thru a screen.

Re cones, I think the non-water soluble amodimethicone is supposed to repel itself, thus doesn't build up. There are also water-soluble cones, which interest me - they apparently can be washed away by a sulfate-free shampoo. I literally list this stuff in a spreadsheet.

You are so right about formulation (context? gestalt?) being important. One quick case in point is the cheapo Revlon Colorsilk colorizer I've used forever. So much bad crap in that stuff with all the cones and table salt and yadda yadda - and my hair loves it.