Blonde over copper

[catoala]

hello
I'm wondering what would happen if I used blonde toner on copper hair
OR
blonde dye (level 8 blonde) over 8.4 (copper) with 30 volume developer

regarding toner, I want temporary golden undertone, and with dye id hope for copper but maybe a bit goldenish rather than orange...
what to expect with each? thanks:))

[Glitch]

Is your hair naturally copper, or is it dyed to a copper? I'd be extremely careful with bleaching over dyed copper (especially if there are several layers of coloring over the hair, since that's what ultimately destroyed my copper hair back in 2015 :couch:).

[catoala]

Is your hair naturally copper, or is it dyed to a copper? I'd be extremely careful with bleaching over dyed copper (especially if there are several layers of coloring over the hair, since that's what ultimately destroyed my copper hair back in 2015 :couch:).

It was bleached then dyed copper, once

[Bat]

It was bleached then dyed copper, once

You'd be best to get a color remover like Color oops it should lift the copper out it's not as damaging as bleach is. It does smell like rotten eggs though

[Glitch]

It was bleached then dyed copper, once

Okay - hopefully some others can pitch in so you get more opinions :) Personally, I get war flashbacks from when I went through it, and we have similar hair so just be careful.

Here's a video of a few different people going from red to blonde (even though the colors aren't exact to your case, they're in the same ranges) and the professional makes several helpful comments (i.e. color remover) throughout the process :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm-oLwEs8Lc

[lapushka]

If you use a toner that is too light, over a dark color (which that copper is), then it won't do a thing. It is a waste of product.

You can't turn copper hair blonde with a toner. If you find one dark enough you could go a light brown with it. But then you would need the right toner.

To go blonde, you'd have to get rid of all the red tones in your hair, and that means bleach, and then a light toner. Then that kind of a toner (Wella T18) would work!

[catoala]

Hm i think I wrote the post badly haha!!

Basically- I do not want blonde hair. As in, permanently.
I want to have the hair now: copper, BUT with more of a .. blonde sheen? I can't explain :( In bright light it looks very strawberry blonde but normally like a copper colour. But. I want strawberry blonde.

The reason I asked about toner is because i saw a woman that had copper hair and she used a toner (she didn't say which one but she said it's not dye and it washed out) and it looked very strawberry blonde like. So that's why I asked! I really want something like that haha😂

[catoala]

Is your hair naturally copper, or is it dyed to a copper? I'd be extremely careful with bleaching over dyed copper (especially if there are several layers of coloring over the hair, since that's what ultimately destroyed my copper hair back in 2015 :couch:).

Oh also, because it has bleach underneath, what would be process for going blonde? But I like "brassy"blonde, not ashy? More like yellow ish orange if that makes ANY sense

[Obsidian]

Toner isn't going to lighten your copper to strawberry blonde. It changes the tone, not the shade.

I don't think you'll find anything to temporarily change your hair ti strawberry blonde, that will require a permanent dye and best to go to a salon as it will be easy to mess up

[catoala]

Hey so I found the girl i spoke about in previois post.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hair/comments/n3yekl/red_or_copper_blonde_which_one_suits_me_better_in/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

swipe for 2nd photo, it says the used blonde toner, that's why I thought its possible. its super subtle but nice ://

[MusicalSpoons]

Did you have henna in your hair at some point recently?

Edit: after reading the post, I don't think you can infer that they used the toner over copper. Whatever their base colour, it seems they used a toner at one point (the lighter pic) and at a different time used henna (the darker colour) because in one of the comments they do say the colours are from two different products, which to me implies the henna/red was not under the toner.

[catoala]

Did you have henna in your hair at some point recently?

Nope! I didnt

[Kathie]

Hey so I found the girl i spoke about in previois post.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hair/comments/n3yekl/red_or_copper_blonde_which_one_suits_me_better_in/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

swipe for 2nd photo, it says the used blonde toner, that's why I thought its possible. its super subtle but nice ://

The white balance in these two pictures are very different- look at the difference in her skin tone. So you're not getting an accurate representation of the colour difference before and after toner. Sorry this doesn't answer your question but I just wanted to point this out.

[illicitlizard]

The white balance in these two pictures are very different- look at the difference in her skin tone. So you're not getting an accurate representation of the colour difference before and after toner. Sorry this doesn't answer your question but I just wanted to point this out.

This was my thought too, those pictures don't look a tonne different in terms of hair shade, just in terms of lighting.

AFAIK you won't be able to make your current copper look lighter and more strawberry with a toner.

[MidnightMoon]

I'm here wondering why on earth that person chose to use two photos in completely different light, one in the dark with artificial light to compare hair colour... anyhow... I would barely call that red (many people do classify strawberry blonde as redheads but I don't really think of people with that haircolour as redheads when I see them in the street randomly). You should buy normal bleach and lighten the copper... maybe try a bleach bath first. Half shampoo half bleach. You can also do your own toner by mixing blue hair dye into your shampoo... just not too much.
And no box dye to lighten, that doesn't work (if it did, people who use box dyes would always have a demarcation line and it's not the case)

[GordonMurphella]

Ah, if wishes were horses and if haircolour were paint :) Mixed metaphors but whatever. Lots of good advice here, and I agree, those two pictures have no basis in reality. My suggestion would be to go grab some Keracolor from Ulta maybe in one of the golden shades (sorry, I only use the Platinum for my silver hair so I have no idea of these shades, but they have lots and the stuff is great for your hair imho). It's a crapshoot when using boxed dyes over previously coloured and/or bleached hair. Ask me how I know. Youth, a long time ago :)

Do go look at Keracolor, it's fab stuff and very hair friendly.

[catoala]

Ah, if wishes were horses and if haircolour were paint :) Mixed metaphors but whatever. Lots of good advice here, and I agree, those two pictures have no basis in reality. My suggestion would be to go grab some Keracolor from Ulta maybe in one of the golden shades (sorry, I only use the Platinum for my silver hair so I have no idea of these shades, but they have lots and the stuff is great for your hair imho). It's a crapshoot when using boxed dyes over previously coloured and/or bleached hair. Ask me how I know. Youth, a long time ago :)

Do go look at Keracolor, it's fab stuff and very hair friendly.

Oh god i see it now. I have no idea how didn't I notice. 😳 I hoped but oh well haha.
Thanks guys

Keracolor? What would it do if I picked some golden colour??

[Shorty89]

Maybe a cassia treatment would work? Otherwise, I think you're SOL.

[GordonMurphella]

Oh god i see it now. I have no idea how didn't I notice. �� I hoped but oh well haha.
Thanks guys

Keracolor? What would it do if I picked some golden colour??

Check their website, it's really helpful. Lots of pictures and suggestions. Good luck!

[lapushka]

Ah, if wishes were horses and if haircolour were paint :) Mixed metaphors but whatever. Lots of good advice here, and I agree, those two pictures have no basis in reality. My suggestion would be to go grab some Keracolor from Ulta maybe in one of the golden shades (sorry, I only use the Platinum for my silver hair so I have no idea of these shades, but they have lots and the stuff is great for your hair imho). It's a crapshoot when using boxed dyes over previously coloured and/or bleached hair. Ask me how I know. Youth, a long time ago :)

Do go look at Keracolor, it's fab stuff and very hair friendly.

Heard good things about it as well, from some YT channels (where the change was obvious). I think if you have light colored hair, that is a great option. But does it go on darker hair?

[Glitch]

Oh also, because it has bleach underneath, what would be process for going blonde? But I like "brassy"blonde, not ashy? More like yellow ish orange if that makes ANY sense

Hmm, I'm not 100% certain which color you're trying to shoot for, but from the second photo of the girl, I'm assuming some kind of yellow-y strawberry blonde shade like that? So, if that's not drastically different from your current color, I really think a color remover could do it, i.e. https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qou1YJStbFM/maxresdefault.jpg and the level of brass could then be managed by a toner.

To be safe though, since you have thick hair, I'd honestly take a streak of hair and try it out. Otherwise, you can always bleach your hair but again, with all the previous stuff that's compromised your hair (bleaching + further coloring), I'd try to avoid it if possible. My best advice though is to keep looking up some stuff until you feel super confident in what to do! Especially videos where you can visually see what's being done and what the exact before and after is! :flower:

[lapushka]

Hmm, I'm not 100% certain which color you're trying to shoot for, but from the second photo of the girl, I'm assuming some kind of yellow-y strawberry blonde shade like that? So, if that's not drastically different from your current color, I really think a color remover could do it, i.e. https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qou1YJStbFM/maxresdefault.jpg and the level of brass could then be managed by a toner.

To be safe though, since you have thick hair, I'd honestly take a streak of hair and try it out. Otherwise, you can always bleach your hair but again, with all the previous stuff that's compromised your hair (bleaching + further coloring), I'd try to avoid it if possible. My best advice though is to keep looking up some stuff until you feel super confident in what to do! Especially videos where you can visually see what's being done and what the exact before and after is! :flower:

Yep: strand test, especially with a deposit dye color as that doesn't even need to process very much, at least not like a semi or demi.

[Dark40]

Hm i think I wrote the post badly haha!!

Basically- I do not want blonde hair. As in, permanently.
I want to have the hair now: copper, BUT with more of a .. blonde sheen? I can't explain :( In bright light it looks very strawberry blonde but normally like a copper colour. But. I want strawberry blonde.

The reason I asked about toner is because i saw a woman that had copper hair and she used a toner (she didn't say which one but she said it's not dye and it washed out) and it looked very strawberry blonde like. So that's why I asked! I really want something like that haha😂

Hm...
I think I know exactly what color you want your hair to be. When I read your first post I didn't understand what color you wanted your hair to be. I'm also trying to achieve that red - copper tone in my hair as well. Sortave like a strawberry blonde. Or, I would like a mixture of some brown, red, and blonde...and how I achieve that is I use plain old hair dye. I use three different colors. One is, my natural hair color, "Medium Brown," "Blonde," and "Red." That's how I achieve that coppery reddish color, and I'll alternate the colorings. Like, one month I'll color my hair with the medium brown. Which is a rinse. Then, another month I'll color with the blonde, and then another month I'll color with the red.

[lapushka]

Hm...
I think I know exactly what color you want your hair to be. When I read your first post I didn't understand what color you wanted your hair to be. I'm also trying to achieve that red - copper tone in my hair as well. Sortave like a strawberry blonde. Or, I would like a mixture of some brown, red, and blonde...and how I achieve that is I use plain old hair dye. I use three different colors. One is, my natural hair color, "Medium Brown," "Blonde," and "Red." That's how I achieve that coppery reddish color, and I'll alternate the colorings. Like, one month I'll color my hair with the medium brown. Which is a rinse. Then, another month I'll color with the blonde, and then another month I'll color with the red.

Hair dye over dye? How can a blonde dye work over a dark dye, if you don't bleach it out first. :hmm:

[Dark40]

Hair dye over dye? How can a blonde dye work over a dark dye, if you don't bleach it out first. :hmm:

Yess! Blonde dye over dark dye has worked for me for several years! I've dyed my hair from dark to light with blonde hair dye, and it worked out just fine for me. :hmm:

[lapushka]

Yess! Blonde dye over dark dye has worked for me for several years! I've dyed my hair from dark to light with blonde hair dye, and it worked out just fine for me. :hmm:

Weird, because it goes against all that is known of dye and color!

[Dark40]

Weird, because it goes against all that is known of dye and color!

It's not weird to me and a lot of others. They do it all of the time! I know I've posted that article about how Jane Seymour color's her hair every three weeks even though it's with the kind of dye that is low or no ammonia that her hair stylist uses on her hair. Here's an article that states how her hair stylist wovens three colors for her to achieve the color she has now :

http://hairstylessolutions.blogspot.com/2011/05/jane-seymour-stylist-shares-her-hair.html

[lapushka]

It's not weird to me and a lot of others. They do it all of the time! I know I've posted that article about how Jane Seymour color's her hair every three weeks even though it's with the kind of dye that is low or no ammonia that her hair stylist uses on her hair. Here's an article that states how her hair stylist wovens three colors for her to achieve the color she has now :

http://hairstylessolutions.blogspot.com/2011/05/jane-seymour-stylist-shares-her-hair.html

I feel my point is going to be lost on deaf ears anyway. Light dye does not make dark dye budge any. That's just fact. You need bleach for that process.

[alewyn]

I feel my point is going to be lost on deaf ears anyway. Light dye does not make dark dye budge any. That's just fact. You need bleach for that process.

It could be that Dark and the article linked are both referring to a dye mixture containing bleach as blonde dye. Colloquially I have heard this done often :) and some boxed bleach kits advertise themselves as blonde dye. I think they do so in order not to scare people away with the idea that they're bleaching their hair, or perhaps because they think it's simpler to use the word "dye" to encompass all hair color change.

[lapushka]

It could be that Dark and the article linked are both referring to a dye mixture containing bleach as blonde dye. Colloquially I have heard this done often :) and some boxed bleach kits advertise themselves as blonde dye. I think they do so in order not to scare people away with the idea that they're bleaching their hair, or perhaps because they think it's simpler to use the word "dye" to encompass all hair color change.

That would make sense. But dye over dye, like regular dye especially light after dark? That's physically impossible. Anyone knowing at least a tad bit of how color works would know that.

[catoala]

Yeah, it's also weird to me but.. maybe the blonde has bleach in there! Like Keune 1517 one has bleach in it and it's not recommended to use on already bleached hair because of that but still..

[lapushka]

Yeah, it's also weird to me but.. maybe the blonde has bleach in there! Like Keune 1517 one has bleach in it and it's not recommended to use on already bleached hair because of that but still..

Well I'm not in the US. But general color/dye theory is kinda universal. Except for those high-lift bleach dyes. Those are... something!

[Kathie]

It could be that Dark and the article linked are both referring to a dye mixture containing bleach as blonde dye. Colloquially I have heard this done often :) and some boxed bleach kits advertise themselves as blonde dye. I think they do so in order not to scare people away with the idea that they're bleaching their hair, or perhaps because they think it's simpler to use the word "dye" to encompass all hair color change.

Yes this. In the past I've used box dye to go from dark to light. There was definitely something in there that lifted colour.

[lapushka]

Yes this. In the past I've used box dye to go from dark to light. There was definitely something in there that lifted colour.

Yes it might do minor things, but if you want the color on the box? Different story.

[Kathie]

Yes it might do minor things, but if you want the color on the box? Different story.

Absolutely! This is the reason I stopped dying my hair at home... too many weird and unexpected colour experiences.

[GordonMurphella]

I also think, after looking at post history, that the OP has way too many layers of way too many box colours and henna to end up with anything resembling what she wants. OP, I strongly suggest you play with temporary-ish colours or my original suggestion of Keracolor. Haircolour is not paint, and dye does not lift dye, regardless of what some have said in this thread.

This won't end well, but only you can discover that for yourself. Also, I suggest you show pictures of your hair in order to get the best advice. Other people's hair is ... other people's hair. Good luck to you :)

[lapushka]

I also think, after looking at post history, that the OP has way too many layers of way too many box colours and henna to end up with anything resembling what she wants. OP, I strongly suggest you play with temporary-ish colours or my original suggestion of Keracolor. Haircolour is not paint, and dye does not lift dye, regardless of what some have said in this thread.

This won't end well, but only you can discover that for yourself. Also, I suggest you show pictures of your hair in order to get the best advice. Other people's hair is ... other people's hair. Good luck to you :)

Yep! So true; I mean that's just your basic dye teachings!

[alewyn]

I also think, after looking at post history, that the OP has way too many layers of way too many box colours and henna to end up with anything resembling what she wants. OP, I strongly suggest you play with temporary-ish colours or my original suggestion of Keracolor. Haircolour is not paint, and dye does not lift dye, regardless of what some have said in this thread.

This won't end well, but only you can discover that for yourself. Also, I suggest you show pictures of your hair in order to get the best advice. Other people's hair is ... other people's hair. Good luck to you :)

This is true--I think folks just get confused because among non-hair professionals, people often use the word "dye" to refer to anything that changes your hair color (so, someone with bleached blonde hair might say they "dye their hair blonde" whether or not there is any actual dye involved in the process). It's a difference of what the term literally means versus how it's used in common speech (at least among English speakers in the US).

I think most of us here are on the same page that pigment alone being added to the hair cannot make it lighter! But like Kathie said, some boxed products will contain a mixture of a lightening agent and blonde dye, and so the lightening agent will lift the hair some, but of course, the dye will not. You'll also see things like boxed bleach kits being sold in the dye aisle at the drugstore.

[lapushka]

This is true--I think folks just get confused because among non-hair professionals, people often use the word "dye" to refer to anything that changes your hair color (so, someone with bleached blonde hair might say they "dye their hair blonde" whether or not there is any actual dye involved in the process). It's a difference of what the term literally means versus how it's used in common speech (at least among English speakers in the US).

I think most of us here are on the same page that pigment alone being added to the hair cannot make it lighter! But like Kathie said, some boxed products will contain a mixture of a lightening agent and blonde dye, and so the lightening agent will lift the hair some, but of course, the dye will not. You'll also see things like boxed bleach kits being sold in the dye aisle at the drugstore.

The confusion can be there, but I mean when talking about it, it for sure becomes clear.

[Kriegerin]

I went that route about 4 years ago, but I used a color remover first and then bleached and toned it
It went well!!

[Bat]

A color remover will be their best bet but if they have henna I don't think putting color removers in is a good idea

[lapushka]

You guys, there's already a more recent thread, also asking for advice; if you want to check it out? :)

[Shorty89]

You guys, there's already a more recent thread, also asking for advice; if you want to check it out? :)

I think we should merge the threads for less confusion.

[lapushka]

I think we should merge the threads for less confusion.

I think that would be a great idea, because... yeah, now I'm confused too! :(