Scraping off build-up + chelating with citric acid?

[WavyWannabe]

Hi there,
I don't know if that "tip" is well-known but I think I just had a minor breakthrough.

I'd noticed a lot of grey, hard to remove grime on my brush. It wasn't even a matter of normal dust accumulating over time, I managed to fill a brand new TT-like detangling brush with yucky grime in one detangling session :eek:

So of course I ended up searching the interwebz for "what the heck is that gross build-up", and stumbled upon oddly satisfying videos of hair being scraped off of gross stuff with a scissor blade. Disregarding the fact that I would probably ruin my hair doing so, I immediately took my scissors and did the same to a small hidden chunk of my hair.
Guess what? I did scrape off the same white gunk as in the videos. It was actually kind of hard to stop, that was weirdly soothing and satisfying.

This may come in handy for those who don't have a clarifying or chelating shampoo on hand but still want to know whether they are dealing with build-up.
(Assuming what I scraped off was actually build-up, of course.)

Now I know I have build-up in my hair. Still no idea whether it's mineral deposits from hard water, product build-up or maybe something else (sebum??).
I don't think it can be "tested", so I guess I'm better off clarifying and chelating to remove the gunk no matter what it is and hopefully keep my brush and comb cleaner for longer.
Which leads me to an actual question: I don't have any chelating or clarifying shampoo. My usual shampoo does not have a "common" sulfate (no SLS/SLES/ALS) but it does have disodium lauryl sulfoccinate, which I think is basically a mild sulfate. Could it do the job of clarifying if I use it on my length or do I really need a product that says "clarifying" on the label, or specific surfactants?
Also, I have citric acid on hand. I read a couple of times on the Internet that vinegar/acidic rinses could help lift mineral build-up. However, "somewhere on the Internet" is *not* a reliable source and I'm quite wary of blindly following advice given by the same blogs that suggest washing with baking soda. Does anyone know whether trying to chelate with citric acid actually works and/or won't seriously wreck hair?

Have a good day :)

[BuddhaBelle]

I am not sure about the citric stuff but i heard that scissor trick can seriously damage your hair cuticles so i would avoid it !!

[Siv]

Chelating with citric acid can work, but for it to not be damaging to the hair you need a very, very small amount of citric acid mixed in water. For me, it did nothing but YMMV. Vinegar rinses don't work for me either.

For me, SLS, SLES, ALS do clarify my hair of build up from hair products. Some of the SLS (etc.) shampoos I've tried over the years have had a lot of conditioning ingredients as well, like silicones or oils or whatever, so even if those shampoos do have SLS (etc.) I wouldn't consider them clarifying since they're depositing new layers of product onto the hair. If you can't find a shampoo marketed as clarifying I'd look for an SLS (etc.) shampoo with few conditioning ingredients

If you have mineral build up, you may need a specifically chelating shampoo, which is sort of a clarifying shampoo. Mineral build up made my hair dry and brittle (sort of like protein overload) so my first guess wouldn't be it for you. Chelating shampoos have extra ingredients that remove minerals specifically. A regular clarifying shampoo may not be enough. Or it might. YMMV.

Your problem may be just a specific product that leaves a lot of build up on your hair. You could try cutting out different products at different times and see if it makes a difference.


ETA 1: Disodium lauryl sulfosuccinate could clarify a bit because it is still kind of harsh compared to milder surfactants but most of the shampoos with it that I've seen has had a lot of conditioning ingredients as well

ETA 2: if in an emergency, diluted dish detergent can be used to clarify... you'd need to tread carefully and use a lot of conditioner after though!

ETA 3: over here the municipalities publish maps of water hardness online, so maybe you could see if your area does the same? Our area of Sweden does have water hardness that is naturally just off the charts so that may not be common elsewhere...

[poli]

I tried "chelating" mask with malic acid. People use it to lighten hair so be very careful. As for clarifying power I would compare it to very strong sls shampoo, kind of oldschool very stripping shampoo that resembles dishwasher liquid more than haircare product.

[Jane99]

A lot of people on this site including myself use diluted vinegar. I’ll dilute maybe 1:16 in a large plastic cup. Dunk my lengths in and swish around in the cup then dump the rest over my head and I rinse it out a few minutes later. Don’t get it in your eyes. I know vinegar cleans out the hard water deposits when *boiled* in my tea pot so it does chelate to some degree. Probably not 100% without the heat but my hair does feel nice afterwards anyways. I try to do it every 2-3 weeks. Daily use ends up being drying for me.

[Finda]

I also used to get a lot of gunky, sticky stuff in my brush. At first I thought it was dust or lint, but I was never sure. I never chelate and my scalp looked clean and didn't itch and my ends didn't look or feel coated so I tried to ignore it. Recently I I have a lot less gunk in my brush, now that I think about there is almost no gunk anymore. In only have to clean my brushes now when I used them to brush through oiled hair.

I changed two things that could maybe have attributed: I used to wash my hair once a week for a while, with sometimes dry shampoo to gap the time since on the third day my hair starts to look greasy. So a couple of months back I started to wash my hair twice a week ( so less sebum) and left the dry shampoo be.
Secondly I went back to SLS shampoo. For a long time I used to wash mainly with sodium coco sulfate or even coco-glucoside as a surfactant, so maybe they weren't cleansing enough and left stuff on the scalp? I live in a hard water area I have to add.

I used to do vinegar rinses for a while as well. I think I used 1 or 2 tablespoon of vinegar for 1 l of distilled water and I had good results, but in the end not so great results that the effort was worth it in the long run.

[WavyWannabe]

Thanks everyone :)

BuddhaBelle, no worries, I only did it on a small hidden chunk of hair. It seemed damaging indeed, if I go by the sound it made...

Siv, yes my shampoo has quite a lot of conditioning ingredients (polyquats and quaternary surfactants), if anything it may contribute to the build-up.
I'm tempted to try the dish soap trick, I remember doing it once with a tiny amount of dish soap once (ran out of shampoo) and I didn't experience damage nor dryness.
(I realize I sound like I treat my hair horribly: scraping it with scissors, washing it with dish soap...)
For a less scary option I think a store near me carries a shampoo with ALS and no coating/conditioning ingredients, which from what you tell me is basically what a clarifying shampoo should be: strong anionic surfactant and no conditioners that could build up.

I looked up water hardness; I just moved from a town with 27°f (not off-the-charts but still hard water) to a city with 17°f (moderately hard water).
So if I'm experiencing mineral build-up it may not come back as fast after all.

As for eliminating products one by one to identify the culprit, that sounds like a great idea :)

poli, I couldn't find a chelating mask (or shampoo for that matter), but from what you say it does seem these are pretty harsh, so maybe they're good for clarifying too.
They're hard to find where I live though, so I think I'm going to give acidic rinses a shot first.

Jane99, I wasn't sure if acidic rinses could chelate or not, but it sounds like it's worth giving it a shot.

I do have pH paper but I think it does not measure below 5.2 :doh:. But it could still be useful to make a mild citric acid rinse... I could fill a bottle with plain tap water, test the pH, add a tiny pinch of citric acid, test the pH again and repeat until the pH falls at or below 5.2 (and hopefully doesn't jump from like 6 to 2 with one pinch).

[WavyWannabe]

I also used to get a lot of gunky, sticky stuff in my brush. At first I thought it was dust or lint, but I was never sure. I never chelate and my scalp looked clean and didn't itch and my ends didn't look or feel coated so I tried to ignore it. Recently I I have a lot less gunk in my brush, now that I think about there is almost no gunk anymore. In only have to clean my brushes now when I used them to brush through oiled hair.

I changed two things that could maybe have attributed: I used to wash my hair once a week for a while, with sometimes dry shampoo to gap the time since on the third day my hair starts to look greasy. So a couple of months back I started to wash my hair twice a week ( so less sebum) and left the dry shampoo be.
Secondly I went back to SLS shampoo. For a long time I used to wash mainly with sodium coco sulfate or even coco-glucoside as a surfactant, so maybe they weren't cleansing enough and left stuff on the scalp? I live in a hard water area I have to add.

I used to do vinegar rinses for a while as well. I think I used 1 or 2 tablespoon of vinegar for 1 l of distilled water and I had good results, but in the end not so great results that the effort was worth it in the long run.

Ok, so it could be just plain old sebum/dirt build-up. I detangle my hair right before washing it and wash once a week; it does make sense.
I'll have to try brushing or combing when my hair is still clean to see if I get as much gunk.

[EdG]

The gray, sticky stuff is a mixture of waxy sebum and lint. It can accumulate in places where the comb tines do not reach, i.e. next to the scalp and in any folds/twists in the hair.

The way to remove it is to finger-detangle, followed by combing, followed by cleaning the comb with a damp washcloth. This works best when the hair is slightly damp.

Over the years, the folds/twists have come out, and I no longer find accumulated sebum.
Ed

[poli]

Thanks everyone :)
poli, I couldn't find a chelating mask (or shampoo for that matter), but from what you say it does seem these are pretty harsh, so maybe they're good for clarifying too.
They're hard to find where I live though, so I think I'm going to give acidic rinses a shot first.


My mask was DIY too, around here it's hard to find special products for clarifying or chelating.

[Mariekeeee14]

I end every wash day with a citric acid rinse that I don’t rinse out to combat chalk build up. I use 1/4 teaspoon in 500 ml water (though I’ve been eyeballing it for a while now). It’s not damaging when you dilute it enough. We have a thread about miracle water that has citric acid and vitamin c, very informative (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128756)

[JasminxCat]

That sounds dangerously satisfying

You know that sizzling sound when dipping your hair into a dilution of ACV? Is that the sound of it removing build up gunk or something else?

[pisinoe]

Joico has a clarifying shampoo that is also chelating, and if you live close to the German border, the Balea clarifying shampoo is also chelating and costs less than 2€ at DM.

[lapushka]

Yep, I get that stuff too, it's lint and mostly because as a wavy I use a lot of stylers on my length. So when I brush it out at the end of the week, all of that comes right off, and gathers in my brush.

I am a little shocked at the mention of... how to remove it. Just a regular good brushing is more than enough, and a regular shampoo will more than suffice. Not even a sulfate shampoo is needed to get that off, but I do recommend clarifying at least once or twice a month with a sulfate.

[AutobotsAttack]

I am not sure about the citric stuff but i heard that scissor trick can seriously damage your hair cuticles so i would avoid it !!

I’d agree with this. Who’s to say you didn’t just scrape off the layers of hair? Considering things on a microscopic level.

[AutobotsAttack]

That sounds dangerously satisfying

You know that sizzling sound when dipping your hair into a dilution of ACV? Is that the sound of it removing build up gunk or something else?

Probably a reaction of your hair, citric acid, water, and whatever else is present on your hair.

[WavyWannabe]

Scraping off hair is definitely dangerously satisfying, JasminxCat. And probably damaging, since as AutobotsAttack says there's no way to know whether we're scraping build-up or actual hair.
Yet it's quite difficult to stop once you start. So soothing. Anyway, when I get tons of splits in that area I'll know where they come from... :eyeroll:

I washed my hair yesterday and right now it's up; I usually detangle only when it has straightened quite a bit, which is also when it starts getting dirty.
I'll try to detangle earlier this week, on clean hair. If I don't get the same gunk I'll know it was just sebum and lint.
Now I'm thankful I didn't impulsively try to chelate/clarify with anything I had on hand... I really have to learn to stop doing stuff to my hair on a whim (like, say, scraping it with sharp things because "iT's SoOtHiNg") :doh:

As for cleaning the brush, bringing it in the shower with me and shampooing it did the trick :)

ETA: I looked up the miracle water, turns out I also have vitamin C on hand, so thanks for the suggestion!

[WavyWannabe]

Update: I got the same gunk on my brush today, two days after washing. Maybe sebum + lint accumulated in only two days though.
Oh well, now I know how to get rid of the brush lint, and my hair feels fine, so... "If it ain't broken, don't fix it" ;)