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Lesley8
October 12th, 2020, 04:14 AM
Hi, I'm having problems with my hair at the moment it can break of when I comb it sometimes and looking for any help on this as I don't want it to all break.
I haven't dyed it for 18mths (going to let my grey come through) and for 7mth I've been looking after my hair, I use argan oil and jojoba, I use masks once a week and wash once a week.
I'm sorry for the long post. But any help would be appreciated. Thank you

lapushka
October 12th, 2020, 06:11 AM
What kind of damage is in there? Only dye? Or also heat? I mean a blow dryer on hot (not warm/cool, that's fine), or straighteners / curling irons.

Lesley8
October 12th, 2020, 06:25 AM
Hi I only dyed it i never put heat on it. I just feel everything I'm trying isn't helping? I don't want to shave it all of again!

Amenahh
October 12th, 2020, 06:34 AM
Is it breaking all along the hair length, or just at the ends? If you haven't cut it for a while, maybe it's just time for a trim?
Did the damage appear all of a sudden, or it was just gradually getting more damaged?

florenonite
October 12th, 2020, 06:46 AM
If you've only been dye-free for 18 months, that means everything longer than about 9" / 24cm is damaged. You can't generally repair damage (there's Olaplex, but I've never tried that myself), so you're basically stuck with cutting it off, which you can either do now or later, and you seem to prefer the "later" option.

If your breakage and damage is all in the dyed bit, then I'd focus on growing that out and trimming it regularly. Even just cutting off half your growth every month can make a big difference to the manageability of it; I have some damage in the bottom 6-8" of my hair, and the other day I trimmed my previously-blunt hemline into a U and that alone has made such a difference to how easy it is to drag a comb through my hair.

Lesley8
October 12th, 2020, 06:46 AM
Its breaking half way down, ive just started to notice it around 6mth ago. I had my ends done last November haven't since which is down to the virus. I'm wondering if its something I'm using? I have low porosity hair and I'm still trying to find out whats best for me, oils seem the best. Could my hair be drying out?

Lesley8
October 12th, 2020, 06:49 AM
If you've only been dye-free for 18 months, that means everything longer than about 9" / 24cm is damaged. You can't generally repair damage (there's Olaplex, but I've never tried that myself), so you're basically stuck with cutting it off, which you can either do now or later, and you seem to prefer the "later" option.

If your breakage and damage is all in the dyed bit, then I'd focus on growing that out and trimming it regularly. Even just cutting off half your growth every month can make a big difference to the manageability of it; I have some damage in the bottom 6-8" of my hair, and the other day I trimmed my previously-blunt hemline into a U and that alone has made such a difference to how easy it is to drag a comb through my hair.

Hi I wondered if it was that, I'll have to wait at the moment for a hairdresser sadly but hopefully I'll get a trim soon. Thank you

florenonite
October 12th, 2020, 07:42 AM
Hi I wondered if it was that, I'll have to wait at the moment for a hairdresser sadly but hopefully I'll get a trim soon. Thank you

You can do it yourself (https://feyeselftrim.livejournal.com/)! All you need is a pair of sharp hairdressing scissors (I got a decent pair at Superdrug years ago) and a comb or brush.

This is the method I used the other day and I intend to use it again in a month or two to keep trimming away at the damage.

Lesley8
October 12th, 2020, 07:57 AM
You can do it yourself (https://feyeselftrim.livejournal.com/)! All you need is a pair of sharp hairdressing scissors (I got a decent pair at Superdrug years ago) and a comb or brush.

This is the method I used the other day and I intend to use it again in a month or two to keep trimming away at the damage.

Great! I have hairdressers scissors, I'll just take a little of at time incase I make a mess lol thank you

florenonite
October 12th, 2020, 08:10 AM
Great! I have hairdressers scissors, I'll just take a little of at time incase I make a mess lol thank you

Yes, definitely take off LESS than you think you want to!

Lesley8
October 12th, 2020, 08:17 AM
I will, I'm actually thinking of trying the u shape looks nice.

Milynn
October 12th, 2020, 08:18 AM
I have had - and still have - this problem. Mine was due to bleach, which caused dryness and thus the very ends of my hair lost elasticity. I think it is essential to try to find out why they are breaking - if the whole structure is damaged, then it's better to cut them off. But, if they have "only" lost their elasticity, it might be possible to remedy this to some extent and microtrim. Stretch test is adequate to test elasticity.

If it is elasticity-issue, then moisture is usually the key. For me, I ditched SLES shampoos and brush only occasionally; olive oil added to my conditioner was also useful. Currently most of my hair has regained elasticity, though I will microtrim those ends off eventually anyway, as I already have somewhat my optimal length and those ends are too bothersome to maintain.

sipnsun
October 12th, 2020, 08:20 AM
I wonder if your protein/moisture balance is off. With too much protein, your hair can feel dry and brittle and break off. If your hair feels straw like or stiff that's usually an indication of protein build up. Personally, I can only use protein once every 4-6 weeks so you may want to check your mask, shampoo and conditioner to see if they have protein. If so, I would recommend laying off of it for a few weeks and concentrating on moisture treatments to see if that helps.

esmeralda80
October 12th, 2020, 08:21 AM
For me, the Aphogee 2 step protein treatment stops breakage dead in its tracks for at least a month. Just make sure to follow with a very hydrating deep conditioner.

Lesley8
October 12th, 2020, 08:37 AM
Thank you everyone your all very helpful. I wondered about protein but im new at this! So still not sure what to look for, I find my hair does better with oils when I've just washed my hair, today I added in garnier banana and shea mask as a leave in and my hair looks and feels dry so I'm not using that again. I try not to brush when it's wet. The elasticity isn't good in my hair it usually breaks without oils on it, if that makes sense.

knobbly
October 12th, 2020, 09:30 AM
Sometimes if you have damage on the lower portion of your hair, you need to treat it differently than your virgin hair. Ylva is a member who does this who comes to mind. Maybe look into her routine which I know is WCC? You can even do the second conditioner only on the damaged bits, if your virgin hair doesn’t need that much babying.

sipnsun
October 12th, 2020, 09:38 AM
Thank you everyone your all very helpful. I wondered about protein but im new at this! So still not sure what to look for, I find my hair does better with oils when I've just washed my hair, today I added in garnier banana and shea mask as a leave in and my hair looks and feels dry so I'm not using that again. I try not to brush when it's wet. The elasticity isn't good in my hair it usually breaks without oils on it, if that makes sense.

Yeah, it's hard to find the right balance, mostly it's trial and error unfortunately. I'm a former hairdresser who attended a Paul Mitchell/Redken school. They had us use Redken CAT (heavy protein treatment) on anyone with a tiny bit of damage. I used to use it regularly and couldn't figure out why my hair was breaking. It's sad that after attending 1500 hours of cosmetology school I learned on here that protein overload is a thing. They did have us follow up protein treatments with moisturizing deep conditioning treatments so at least I did that. Oils are great but only hold in moisture, they don't add moisture on their own so you'll still want to find a moisturizing treatment that works for your hair. Good luck!:blossom:

lapushka
October 12th, 2020, 09:49 AM
Sometimes if you have damage on the lower portion of your hair, you need to treat it differently than your virgin hair. Ylva is a member who does this who comes to mind. Maybe look into her routine which I know is WCC? You can even do the second conditioner only on the damaged bits, if your virgin hair doesn’t need that much babying.

Yes the link to the WCC thread (moisture, moisture, moisture = my motto) is in my signature! HTH! :D

Lesley8
October 12th, 2020, 10:43 AM
Thanks again everyone such a great help.
I'll have a look at your link Thanks

sipnsun
October 12th, 2020, 10:45 AM
Yes the link to the WCC thread (moisture, moisture, moisture = my motto) is in my signature! HTH! :D

Mine too lapushka, my hair can't seem to get enough moisture and it will only get worse when we switch to heat from AC, ugh!

Jane99
October 12th, 2020, 12:28 PM
My hair isn’t looking forward to the heat being on either.
Sciency Hair Blog states that hair needs to have enough protein in order to hold in moisture appropriately, so the two can be related when it comes to dry hair.
But the overload possibility is scary... and though my hair has it’s own fair share of damage, I’d be nervous to use a very heavy protein treatment and never have as of yet. But some protein balanced with moisture is different. I can almost feel my hair getting stronger with a bit of protein (although it’s entirely possible that’s all psychological placebo effect for me!)

http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2015/10/protein-101-lots-of-basic-information.html?m=1

Here’s a link to the article about protein and moisture

Dark40
October 12th, 2020, 01:03 PM
There are many hair products out there that can repair damaged hair! You can try the Olaplex but I would recommend the oldest remedy for damaged over-processed hair, and the is good old "Queen Helene Cholesterol Hair Conditioning Cream." What I would do is take one day, and use a mild shampoo before deep conditioning, and apply the conditioner from roots to ends. Sit under a hooded dryer for 20 or 30 minutes. Then, rinse it all out. Your hair will thank you for it! I do this deep conditioning treatment as my weekly moisturizing treatment. This deep conditioner is a thick heavy moisturizing conditioner but to me that's what it sounds like what your hair really needs right now.

sipnsun
October 12th, 2020, 01:43 PM
My hair isn’t looking forward to the heat being on either.
Sciency Hair Blog states that hair needs to have enough protein in order to hold in moisture appropriately, so the two can be related when it comes to dry hair.
But the overload possibility is scary... and though my hair has it’s own fair share of damage, I’d be nervous to use a very heavy protein treatment and never have as of yet. But some protein balanced with moisture is different. I can almost feel my hair getting stronger with a bit of protein (although it’s entirely possible that’s all psychological placebo effect for me!)

http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2015/10/protein-101-lots-of-basic-information.html?m=1

Here’s a link to the article about protein and moisture

Wonderful article Jane99, thanks for sharing. I printed it because I know I won't remember where I saw it and it had a lot of useful info. It's funny that hair with too much protein and protein deficient hair both can have some of the same characteristics. It truly is a balancing act!

Jane99
October 12th, 2020, 03:21 PM
I’m grateful to the people who have figured it out for the rest of us! And yes, like so much in life it’s all about balance ~~~

Lesley8
October 12th, 2020, 03:26 PM
Great article explains it really well for me, I always stayed clear of protein as I thought it would dry my hair out more.
I have a keratin mask I might give it a try since it contains protein, then put my conditioner on my hair after. I've also saved the page so I can read it again. Thanks

Lesley8
October 12th, 2020, 03:29 PM
There are many hair products out there that can repair damaged hair! You can try the Olaplex but I would recommend the oldest remedy for damaged over-processed hair, and the is good old "Queen Helene Cholesterol Hair Conditioning Cream." What I would do is take one day, and use a mild shampoo before deep conditioning, and apply the conditioner from roots to ends. Sit under a hooded dryer for 20 or 30 minutes. Then, rinse it all out. Your hair will thank you for it! I do this deep conditioning treatment as my weekly moisturizing treatment. This deep conditioner is a thick heavy moisturizing conditioner but to me that's what it sounds like what your hair really needs right now.

Thanks I'll have a look for that conditioner.

GordonMurphella
October 14th, 2020, 03:53 AM
Thanks I'll have a look for that conditioner.

I see you have f/m hair ... just be aware the Cholesterol Cream is heavy heavy heavy. It has mineral oil up high, along with good old moisturizing alcohols and it is great, but it may weigh you down more than you like. And it doesn't rinse out easily, particularly if you do the heat as Dark40 suggests.

I mean, as ever, YMMV, but so's you know :)

Lesley8
October 14th, 2020, 06:58 AM
I see you have f/m hair ... just be aware the Cholesterol Cream is heavy heavy heavy. It has mineral oil up high, along with good old moisturizing alcohols and it is great, but it may weigh you down more than you like. And it doesn't rinse out easily, particularly if you do the heat as Dark40 suggests.

I mean, as ever, YMMV, but so's you know :)
Thank you :)

lapushka
October 14th, 2020, 08:57 AM
I see you have f/m hair ... just be aware the Cholesterol Cream is heavy heavy heavy. It has mineral oil up high, along with good old moisturizing alcohols and it is great, but it may weigh you down more than you like. And it doesn't rinse out easily, particularly if you do the heat as Dark40 suggests.

I mean, as ever, YMMV, but so's you know :)


Thank you :)

Ooh yeah, that might happen (weighed down hair). Use a teeny tiny bit (don't slather it on), and you should be just fine!

As an example. I typically use styling creams that are for type 3/4 hair but I use so little that it... guys, it works! I just use a dollop to a few dollops (stick my finger in, scoop some out that way). About a coin size amount. And yeah.

A little goes a looong way! :) :thumbsup:

Lesley8
October 14th, 2020, 10:06 AM
Ooh yeah, that might happen (weighed down hair). Use a teeny tiny bit (don't slather it on), and you should be just fine!

As an example. I typically use styling creams that are for type 3/4 hair but I use so little that it... guys, it works! I just use a dollop to a few dollops (stick my finger in, scoop some out that way). About a coin size amount. And yeah.

A little goes a looong way! :) :thumbsup:

Thank you ��

esmeralda80
October 14th, 2020, 06:07 PM
Sciency Hair Blog states that hair needs to have enough protein in order to hold in moisture appropriately, so the two can be related when it comes to dry hair.

This is exactly what is going on with my hair right now. There comes a point when no amount of SMT, humectants, emollients or oils can stop my hair from feeling like hay and then I know it is time for a hard protein treatment. After this, my hair will behave normally for about a month or so before the cycle repeats. I think this is happening because my hair is naturally fine and the cuticle is very damaged. The defects in the cuticle need to be filled in in order for my hair to hold onto moisture.



But the overload possibility is scary... and though my hair has it’s own fair share of damage, I’d be nervous to use a very heavy protein treatment and never have as of yet.

I tend to think of hard protein treatments as the 911 of hair care - you only bother with them if your hair is in serious trouble - as in, it is breaking or can’t hold onto moisture. If it is just a little damaged or could use a little fortifying, then one of the excellent hair reconstructors such as Joico Kpak or Aphogee 2 minute reconstructor are probably the way to go. I just like to mention the Aphogee 2 step because it has saved my hair time and again and so I like for ppl to be aware that there is something that can stop breakage - you don’t have to lose your hair!




http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2015/10/protein-101-lots-of-basic-information.html?m=1

Here’s a link to the article about protein and moisture

Thank you so much for posting this informative article. It is very accurate based on my experience and I learned something about the different types of proteins! It’s a great contribution to our collective knowledge!

Jane99
October 14th, 2020, 08:07 PM
You are welcome! The whole blog is filled with a ton of great information about hair. I have never known anything about hair care, and never looked into it until about a year and a half ago, and am so grateful to the people of this forum for all the advice and recommendations.

Lesley8
October 15th, 2020, 01:06 AM
I've just taken a look at the aphogee 2 step and I've ordered the sachet to try. I'll give anything a go as its all new to me especially protein and moisture balance, I really don't want to lose all my length. Thank you all for such great advice.

esmeralda80
October 15th, 2020, 09:43 AM
I've just taken a look at the aphogee 2 step and I've ordered the sachet to try. I'll give anything a go as its all new to me especially protein and moisture balance, I really don't want to lose all my length. Thank you all for such great advice.

Since I have so much experience with this product, I thought I’d share some other tips with you!

1) use distilled water throughout your wash process! Minerals in hard water can cause proteins to denature so, for best results, wash and rinse your hair with only distilled water on the day you are using the 2 step.

Also, I would use a shampoo with sulfates to remove any build up and give the protein a better chance of adhering.

2) have a game plan for applying the product to your hair so, once a section is saturated, you don’t have to touch that section again. The idea is to touch or move the hair as little as possible once the product is applied. You absolutely do not want to comb through your hair once it has started to harden. This product is very popular among ppl who relax their hair or who have had bleaching disasters, so there are a lot of YouTube videos you can watch to familiarize yourself with the process. I highly recommend watching some of these first.

3) once you are done applying the product, you want to use heat to harden your hair to the consistency of uncooked ramen. If you have a hard hat dryer, that is best. I don’t have one, so I attach a diffuser to a blow dryer on warm heat and low air flow. Again, the idea is to accelerate the hardening while moving your hair as little as possible. Certainly, don’t touch your hair once it has hardened.

4) once hardened, mist your hair with distilled water to soften it a bit before attempting to rinse the product out.

5) use the conditioner they give you for step 2, rinse it out, then use the most moisturizing non-protein deep conditioner you can find (I would enhance it with aloe and honey - I use 2 parts conditioner 1/2 part honey, 1/2 part aloe, but many ppl here follow SMT guidelines 2 part conditioner / 1 part honey / 1 part aloe). Apply with heat for 15 minutes, then leave on for at least another 15 minutes - or at least half hour in total.

6) After rinsing and towel blotting your hair, use the LOC method to seal in the moisture (leave in conditioner, oil, cream/sealant -usually a small bit of a product containing either shea butter or a cone will work here, but I often skip this step and just use a leave in and an oil.) There is a lot of information on this site regarding LOC and it is a good idea to use after every wash even if you’re not doing a protein treatment.

7) I’m not sure how much is in the sachets, or how long your hair is, but just make sure you have enough product to saturate all of your hair before you get started!

Lastly, if all of this seems daunting, you can always have it done at a salon or enlist the help of a trustworthy friend!

I do it myself and, as much of a pain as it is, the month of breakage free hair is worth it to me. Without the Aphogee, my hair is breaking 2-3 inches from my scalp and it would be too distressing to chop it to that length!

Best of luck, Lesley - I hope you get the same great results that I’ve been getting!

Lesley8
October 15th, 2020, 12:02 PM
Since I have so much experience with this product, I thought I’d share some other tips with you!

1) use distilled water throughout your wash process! Minerals in hard water can cause proteins to denature so, for best results, wash and rinse your hair with only distilled water on the day you are using the 2 step.

Also, I would use a shampoo with sulfates to remove any build up and give the protein a better chance of adhering.

2) have a game plan for applying the product to your hair so, once a section is saturated, you don’t have to touch that section again. The idea is to touch or move the hair as little as possible once the product is applied. You absolutely do not want to comb through your hair once it has started to harden. This product is very popular among ppl who relax their hair or who have had bleaching disasters, so there are a lot of YouTube videos you can watch to familiarize yourself with the process. I highly recommend watching some of these first.

3) once you are done applying the product, you want to use heat to harden your hair to the consistency of uncooked ramen. If you have a hard hat dryer, that is best. I don’t have one, so I attach a diffuser to a blow dryer on warm heat and low air flow. Again, the idea is to accelerate the hardening while moving your hair as little as possible. Certainly, don’t touch your hair once it has hardened.

4) once hardened, mist your hair with distilled water to soften it a bit before attempting to rinse the product out.

5) use the conditioner they give you for step 2, rinse it out, then use the most moisturizing non-protein deep conditioner you can find (I would enhance it with aloe and honey - I use 2 parts conditioner 1/2 part honey, 1/2 part aloe, but many ppl here follow SMT guidelines 2 part conditioner / 1 part honey / 1 part aloe). Apply with heat for 15 minutes, then leave on for at least another 15 minutes - or at least half hour in total.

6) After rinsing and towel blotting your hair, use the LOC method to seal in the moisture (leave in conditioner, oil, cream/sealant -usually a small bit of a product containing either shea butter or a cone will work here, but I often skip this step and just use a leave in and an oil.) There is a lot of information on this site regarding LOC and it is a good idea to use after every wash even if you’re not doing a protein treatment.

7) I’m not sure how much is in the sachets, or how long your hair is, but just make sure you have enough product to saturate all of your hair before you get started!

Lastly, if all of this seems daunting, you can always have it done at a salon or enlist the help of a trustworthy friend!

I do it myself and, as much of a pain as it is, the month of breakage free hair is worth it to me. Without the Aphogee, my hair is breaking 2-3 inches from my scalp and it would be too distressing to chop it to that length!

Best of luck, Lesley - I hope you get the same great results that I’ve been getting!
Hi thank you for all the information so appreciated. I didn't even think if 1 satchet would be enough! Its only 1floz so I'm not sure how many to get, I did think of buying the bottle but I thought it would maybe be better to get the moisture satchet as well? My hair length is tailbone but I have fine hair.
I'm definitely going to look on YouTube and watch it getting used. I don't have anything for heat so will it be ok without?

Lesley8
October 15th, 2020, 12:13 PM
Hi ive just found someone selling the protein and moisturiser in bottles so I've bought them.
Thanks again :)

esmeralda80
October 15th, 2020, 01:59 PM
Hi thank you for all the information so appreciated. I didn't even think if 1 satchet would be enough! Its only 1floz so I'm not sure how many to get, I did think of buying the bottle but I thought it would maybe be better to get the moisture satchet as well? My hair length is tailbone but I have fine hair.
I'm definitely going to look on YouTube and watch it getting used. I don't have anything for heat so will it be ok without?

Hi thank you for all the information so appreciated. I didn't even think if 1 satchet would be enough! Its only 1floz so I'm not sure how many to get, I did think of buying the bottle but I thought it would maybe be better to get the moisture satchet as well? My hair length is tailbone but I have fine hair.
I'm definitely going to look on YouTube and watch it getting used. I don't have anything for heat so will it be ok without?


Hi Lesley - if your hair is that long, and you don’t have anything for heat, it might be best to go to a *trusted* salon (where the stylists are careful and have experience with hard proteins) and have it done there. I know how many years of care go into tailbone length hair and I’d want to make sure you have the process done properly the first time - that would mean applying it carefully and not deviating too much from the instructions.

And remember, another option would be to try the Joico kpak first (followed by a hydrating deep conditioner) and see if it is strong enough to stop the breakage. Then only move up to the two step if you really need to.

Lesley8
October 15th, 2020, 02:56 PM
Hi Lesley - if your hair is that long, and you don’t have anything for heat, it might be best to go to a *trusted* salon (where the stylists are careful and have experience with hard proteins) and have it done there. I know how many years of care go into tailbone length hair and I’d want to make sure you have the process done properly the first time - that would mean applying it carefully and not deviating too much from the instructions.

And remember, another option would be to try the Joico kpak first (followed by a hydrating deep conditioner) and see if it is strong enough to stop the breakage. Then only move up to the two step if you really need to.

No problem :) I'll just keep a hold of it incase I need it. Hopefully I won't. Thanks again

Lesley8
October 16th, 2020, 02:08 AM
For protein i have a keratin mask and shea butter strengthen and restore mask would theses be ok? Thank you