The crowdsourced routine troubleshooting thread

[knobbly]

Hi all-- I'd love some input on my routine and some ideas to try to solve a few issues, and I thought others might be in need of outside input as well. If you are, here's a thread for that!

Here is my problem:

My hair is longer than it's ever been, (HL!) which is :cheer: but also brings with it more tangles and more hair fall than I've ever dealt with. I'm sure that some of the recent shedding has been hormonal, but I'm under the care of a doctor so that part is being resolved. The in-shower tangling has not been resolved with it, and I expect that if I deal with that I will have less breakage and hopefully less shedding.

My Routine:

I wash 1x per week, and I alternate between a low sulfate shampoo, a cowash, and a sulfate shampoo (Giovanni 2chic Smooth and Sleek shampoo, AsIAm Long and Luxe cowash, and Suave Essentials Wild Cherry Blossom shampoo, respectively.)
After one lather (occasionally two if I had a lot of oil in there) I condition upside down from root to tip with silicone free condish, alternating Long Hair Don't Care, Giovanni Smooth as Silk, or Mill Creek Keratin (which I will not be repurchasing because it has almost zero slip.) I load up on conditioner, squish it in, and then begin fingercombing and using my Tangle Teezer alternately. This is where I lose the most hair and where I expect my technique and/or products could be improved. I don't love the TT and I expect my hair is too dense for it to be effective. It also makes a scary ripping sound sometimes that I'm sure isn't good.
After detangling I clip my hair up and do all the other shower things, then rinse out completely right side up.
Once the shower is off, I flip my head over again and fingercomb with either a bit more LHDC or some Kinky Curly Knot Today, squeeze out excess water, then plop in a cotton birdseye cloth diaper to get it out of my way to deal with face and body drying/moisturizing. After that I put it in a turbie twist for another 20 minutes or so, then air dry, usually at least partially in front of a fan because otherwise it takes forever.
Midway through drying, I add some Nightblooming salve + a few drops of avocado or jojoba oil to the ends.
In the winter (very dry here) I use a small amount of silicone serum every few days as needed. This is not necessary at all when the weather is humid (the rest of the year.)
I mostly wear my hair up; this summer has been a lot of English braids, but I just finally found some long spin pins so I'm sure there will be more topknot cinnabuns in the future, as that is the most comfortable style for me. I wear the same bun overnight as well.
I comb through my hair once or twice a day using a wide tooth wooden comb. I don't have a problem with dry combing if I take my time and I do comb prior to washing my hair.
I oil my scalp and hair ends 24+ hours prior to washing about once a month. I use whatever cooking oil is closest to the edge of the shelf at the time lol, usually avocado, olive, or coconut oil. For my scalp I use an herbal oil blend for growth.
I deep condition about once every other month with EcoSlay Banana Cream. So, clarify, deep condition with heat and without (my heat is just hairdryer with a diffuser, so I go over my plastic-wrapped head for a few minutes at a time for 30 minutes or so,) then rinse as normal.
Note: my water is soft so I don't think I'm dealing with any water issues



Questions:



Should I buy the Thick n Curly Tangle Teezer? Or some other kind of wet brush for wet detangling? Shower combs don't usually get my hair as smooth as I'd like because my strands are fine.
I've seen some folks add a second condition after the first (WCC,) does that sounds like it would help my detangling issue? Maybe I should condition once, rinse, then condition again and detangle during the second condition?
I'm open to trying a silicone-y conditioner. It's honestly just habit that I don't currently use a silicone conditioner. Well, that and the fact that the one silicone-full conditioner I have tried in recent memory (Garnier Whole Blends Honey Treasures) made my back and shower floor feel weird and slick and didn't blow me away with its detangling power, either. I don't know anything about conventional drugstore conditioners though, so I'll definitely need some suggestions in that department. I was CG prior to growing out my hair to encourage my slight waves (that no longer exist because of length weight haha.) I don't really want to try salon-level stuff at this time due to cost.
Open to any other suggestions you might have!


Thanks for reading if you've gotten this far. I haven't been on LHC since the beginning of the summer and its really lovely to be back. Mwah!

[-Fern]

I love my Wet Brush (I got the paddle brush style for $8 on Amazon). I have super thick hair, but it glides through like butter and does a really good job of being gentle. Combing is definitely more damaging for me than my Wet Brush.

Oiling for 24+ hours at a time seems like a recipe for scalp issues + SD, in my opinion. I'd advise 8 hours max.

[knobbly]

I love my Wet Brush (I got the paddle brush style for $8 on Amazon). I have super thick hair, but it glides through like butter and does a really good job of being gentle. Combing is definitely more damaging for me than my Wet Brush.

Oiling for 24+ hours at a time seems like a recipe for scalp issues + SD, in my opinion. I'd advise 8 hours max.

I will check out the Wet Brush!

And I know *hangs head* it's mostly just laziness that keeps the oil in for that long. Like I know when I should wash my hair so I'll oil it and then I just... won't get around to washing for awhile after.

Luckily my scalp isn't picky, but I'll keep your caveat in mind. Thank you!

[Strands]

I love my Wet Brush (I got the paddle brush style for $8 on Amazon). I have super thick hair, but it glides through like butter and does a really good job of being gentle. Combing is definitely more damaging for me than my Wet Brush.

Oiling for 24+ hours at a time seems like a recipe for scalp issues + SD, in my opinion. I'd advise 8 hours max.

What do you mean SD? and what exactly is oiling different from adding some Oil to your ends in general?

I feel like I don't understand this right.

[knobbly]

What do you mean SD? and what exactly is oiling different from adding some Oil to your ends in general?

I feel like I don't understand this right.

I took it to mean seborrheic dermatitis, which is a scalp condition. I don't think oiling the length affects scalps usually, but I also oil my scalp occasionally.

[HaMalka]

One thing I noticed in your routine is that you comb your hair wet and dry. If you don't need to comb it in the shower to preserve curl/wave pattern you might want to just nix that detangling and detangle dry only. That might help with in shower hair loss and breakage. If you want to continue detangling in the shower, finger detangling alone might be gentler than using a TT as it sounds like that isn't working for you.

[knobbly]

One thing I noticed in your routine is that you comb your hair wet and dry. If you don't need to comb it in the shower to preserve curl/wave pattern you might want to just nix that detangling and detangle dry only. That might help with in shower hair loss and breakage. If you want to continue detangling in the shower, finger detangling alone might be gentler than using a TT as it sounds like that isn't working for you.

I've thought of that but I feel like combing/brushing conditioner through helps distribute it well throughout my hair, since it's quite dense. Finger detangling is just as difficult/destructive as using the TT in my experience.

I've been reading through the WCC thread today and I think I will try that next wash day, and detangle on the second C. This way I get the conditioner soaking into my hair to help lubricate it and the detangling step to make sure all strands get coated with conditioner.

Thank you for your reply!

[Strands]

I took it to mean seborrheic dermatitis, which is a scalp condition. I don't think oiling the length affects scalps usually, but I also oil my scalp occasionally.

Okay, I couldn't figure that out. thanks lol

[Alexandrina]

Questions:

[LIST=1]
Should I buy the Thick n Curly Tangle Teezer? Or some other kind of wet brush for wet detangling? Shower combs don't usually get my hair as smooth as I'd like because my strands are fine.

Thanks for reading if you've gotten this far. I haven't been on LHC since the beginning of the summer and its really lovely to be back. Mwah!

I will say that the regular tangle teezer did not work for me at all, but the thick n curly one detangles amazingly! (I have wavy not curly hair, but that one still works for me better)
Although I do not use it in the shower so I can't recommend on that part or not.

[florenonite]

Hi all-- I'd love some input on my routine and some ideas to try to solve a few issues, and I thought others might be in need of outside input as well. If you are, here's a thread for that!

Here is my problem:

My hair is longer than it's ever been, (HL!) which is :cheer: but also brings with it more tangles and more hair fall than I've ever dealt with. I'm sure that some of the recent shedding has been hormonal, but I'm under the care of a doctor so that part is being resolved. The in-shower tangling has not been resolved with it, and I expect that if I deal with that I will have less breakage and hopefully less shedding.

My Routine:
[LIST]
I wash 1x per week, and I alternate between a low sulfate shampoo, a cowash, and a sulfate shampoo (Giovanni 2chic Smooth and Sleek shampoo, AsIAm Long and Luxe cowash, and Suave Essentials Wild Cherry Blossom shampoo, respectively.)
After one lather (occasionally two if I had a lot of oil in there) I condition upside down from root to tip with silicone free condish, alternating Long Hair Don't Care, Giovanni Smooth as Silk, or Mill Creek Keratin (which I will not be repurchasing because it has almost zero slip.) I load up on conditioner, squish it in, and then begin fingercombing and using my Tangle Teezer alternately. This is where I lose the most hair and where I expect my technique and/or products could be improved. I don't love the TT and I expect my hair is too dense for it to be effective. It also makes a scary ripping sound sometimes that I'm sure isn't good.
<snipped for space >

I've been using a regular TT for over a decade with a very similar hair type to you; I, personally, don't see a need for the thick & curly one because fine, straight hair compresses a lot when wet or greasy, and those are the only times I use mine. I do split my hair down the back so I'm brushing half my density at once, but that's about it. If that's the only issue you have with your TT, it can't hurt to try the thick & curly one, but you say you don't love it so you might not love that one any more.

As for losing hair, I find I collect a LOT of hair in my TT, but for me that's a feature, not a bug. I brush with my TT before and after showering, and use a wood comb around once a day between washes, and whatever shed hairs don't end up in the TT before washing just end up wrapped around my arms and glued to my skin in the shower. It depends, really, on whether the hairs that you're finding in it have the wee bulbs at the end that show they're shed from the root. If they do, they're just normal sheds and I don't think anything to be aware of, but if you're seeing lots of shorter, broken hairs then that's a sign the TT is breaking your hairs. Overall, if your only problem with detangling in the shower is that you're getting hair fall, I wouldn't worry that you need to condition more. I always shed a LOT in the shower, and it's pretty normal just from the mechanical action of shampooing and detangling.

I wouldn't judge whether or not the TT causing damage by the ripping sound; if it's the sound I'm thinking of, it makes the same sound if you run the palm of your hand over the bristles, so it's just the flexible bristles snapping against each other, which is part of what makes it an effective, gentle detangler.

[Mariekeeee14]

I wouldn't judge whether or not the TT causing damage by the ripping sound; if it's the sound I'm thinking of, it makes the same sound if you run the palm of your hand over the bristles, so it's just the flexible bristles snapping against each other, which is part of what makes it an effective, gentle detangler.

I came here to say the exact same thing. Torrin Paige on yt is a huge fan of the TT, has been for years, and you can hear her brushing in some videos. If your TT makes the same sounds, don't be alarmed. Mine makes the same and I think the TT is the most effective on my hair. I don't seem to be able to get out all the tangles with a Wet Brush (dupe) when I detangle dry. I don't use one in the shower, only post shower when it's all still soaking to style. Maybe you're not as gentle with it as you could when you're flipping your head upside down and back up? That can cause tangles too.

[Lucy McLucyFace]

Curly focused hairdressers do recommend specialized brushes such as the one you named.
You may also want to consider silicones as their primary goal is to add slip which helps to detangle.

Here's the 2 things I've found help with preventing tangles to form when showering:
- pre-poo coconut oil in the lengths. Leave it in about half an hour before washing, then comb it one last time before stepping into the shower. I've only tried this one recently and seen some decent results
- CWC. I've tried using a cheaper conditioner or an ineffective conditioner I want to get rid of and just covering my whole head in it before rinsing and shampooing. It prevents tangles a lot better than the pre-poo method and it has the added bonus of helping the shampoo to ladder a bit better (something I struggle with)

[Strands]

For those who love the TT, Realize the beauty of it for a moment - It has no knobs on the ends of it so it is more gentle when it comes to a strong knot as it can bend a bit and slip out of the caught area, therefore not just breaking through.

IMO - the invention of little knobs on the ends of hair brushes is nothing short of completely moronic. It litterally causes the ends of the hairs to BREAK in the event a knot is too caught to be run through the length. I feel it is a conspiracy to destroy the ends of hair forcing people to get more hair cuts.

There is only ONE brush outside of my TT that I use - It is this one: https://www.amazon.com/HAIR-DOC-Square-Paddle-Bamboo/dp/B003XW1EZM/ref=asc_df_B003XW1EZM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312126451328&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18069092146861111053&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9018572&hvtargid=pla-567754553702&psc=1

This brush is natural wood bristles with NO knobs on the ends. It will not rip knots. Further, the bamboo holds onto hair oil a bit, conditioning your hair as you go, not to mention the nice scalp massage you get as you brush. The PAD that holds the bristles is flexible enough that the bristles, like the TT do not catch and rip the hair, but at the same time I find i get a MUCH better result brushing with this vs the TT.

The only problem is that because this is a natural wood brush, you do NOT want to use it on WET HAIR. DRY ONLY. So when my hair is wet or damp, I do still use my TT, but that is only on wash days. The rest of the week I use my BBBB. (Big Bamboo Bass Brush)

I cannot say enough good things about this company. You should really consider this brush if you like the TT.

[MusicalSpoons]

Um, flipping between upside-down and upright might not be helping. It might be fine but if you're finding tangles after you've already detangled that could be it.

Oiling just what woukd be your ponytail is fine to leave in for however long you want (i sometimes end up going 2 days before washing) then on the day you actually wash, add some oil to your scalp maybe?

CWC would help get the oil out better, especially if you can leave it in for at least 30mins but even more than an hour would be awesome. (If it's on your scalp you probably don't want cones in it.)

If it's heavily oiled before washing, are you perhaps able to comb it with a fine-toothed comb? I have a wooden one and because my hair is so heavily oiled it does not complain about it being finely spaced. It's great for thorough detangling before a wash, but I do keep my head upright throughout the wash (though flipped over would be so useful in non-hair ways, but I'd be setting myself up for masses of tangles if I did that.)

I personally do CWC and detangle after shampoo with the second C using a Mason Pearson comb - acetate and seamless, and I make sure to use a conditioner with at least decent slip. Jo Ann in another thread linked a different type of detangling comb that might be better than a usual shower comb ... I'll see if I can try to find the type ... Ah, here https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dY8AAOSwbj9ea5vG/s-l1600.jpg

Speaking of which, depending on how your hair is with glycerin, the Garnier hair food masks are silicone-free and have ah-mazing slip! There are a couple of cone-free Ultimate/Whole Blends conditioners that are also cone-free depending on the market. Here the cranberry and argan oil one is cone-free and also has equivalent slip to the masks but without any glycerin. (I haven't tried any coney ones.)

The other thing that has helped my hair be happier and less tangly is not combing it for as long as possible after a wash, letting it stay in its clumps long after they've stopped resembling waves (not that anyone sees them because it's always in a bun anyway). I started doing that as an experiment after a couple of other members noticed it made a difference for them, but that was the end point really of a gradual process. I started at combing every day (sometimes morning and night), then combing every other day, then using an extremely wide comb, then I got to detangling in the shower and leaving it alone for the first couple of days, then for three and now often 4 days after a wash. I'm not saying you *should* try it, just mentioning it as something to maybe consider. Several of us have found it to help, but it does need a change of mindset to be okay with hair that deliberately doesn't behave like we're taught it's supposed to (smooth and sleek and can run your fingers effortlessly through it ... heh :lol:)

Oh, that was a long reply. Hopefully there's something useful in there anyway.

[knobbly]

I will say that the regular tangle teezer did not work for me at all, but the thick n curly one detangles amazingly! (I have wavy not curly hair, but that one still works for me better)
Although I do not use it in the shower so I can't recommend on that part or not.

Okay good to know! My hair isn't very wavy at all but there is a lot of it, and I often wish the bristles on my TT were longer (I could section my hair I suppose but I struggle to do that wet.) I have ordered a Wet Brush per -Fern's suggestion above, but if that doesn't work I will keep the TNCTT in mind. Thank you.


I've been using a regular TT for over a decade with a very similar hair type to you; I, personally, don't see a need for the thick & curly one because fine, straight hair compresses a lot when wet or greasy, and those are the only times I use mine. I do split my hair down the back so I'm brushing half my density at once, but that's about it. If that's the only issue you have with your TT, it can't hurt to try the thick & curly one, but you say you don't love it so you might not love that one any more.

As for losing hair, I find I collect a LOT of hair in my TT, but for me that's a feature, not a bug. I brush with my TT before and after showering, and use a wood comb around once a day between washes, and whatever shed hairs don't end up in the TT before washing just end up wrapped around my arms and glued to my skin in the shower. It depends, really, on whether the hairs that you're finding in it have the wee bulbs at the end that show they're shed from the root. If they do, they're just normal sheds and I don't think anything to be aware of, but if you're seeing lots of shorter, broken hairs then that's a sign the TT is breaking your hairs. Overall, if your only problem with detangling in the shower is that you're getting hair fall, I wouldn't worry that you need to condition more. I always shed a LOT in the shower, and it's pretty normal just from the mechanical action of shampooing and detangling.

I wouldn't judge whether or not the TT causing damage by the ripping sound; if it's the sound I'm thinking of, it makes the same sound if you run the palm of your hand over the bristles, so it's just the flexible bristles snapping against each other, which is part of what makes it an effective, gentle detangler.

Thank you so much for the heads up on the sound issue! I had no idea that was a thing and I feel better about it now. *whew*

The hairs I shed dry do have the little bulb on the end, so they are true shed and not breakage. I have to admit I don't inspect the ball of hair I collect in the shower drain before tossing it in the trash. The increase in shower hair shed could just be hormonal or even seasonal, and what I am generally getting from folks is not to worry about it, which is lovely and helpful. :heart:

[knobbly]

Curly focused hairdressers do recommend specialized brushes such as the one you named.
You may also want to consider silicones as their primary goal is to add slip which helps to detangle.

Here's the 2 things I've found help with preventing tangles to form when showering:
- pre-poo coconut oil in the lengths. Leave it in about half an hour before washing, then comb it one last time before stepping into the shower. I've only tried this one recently and seen some decent results
- CWC. I've tried using a cheaper conditioner or an ineffective conditioner I want to get rid of and just covering my whole head in it before rinsing and shampooing. It prevents tangles a lot better than the pre-poo method and it has the added bonus of helping the shampoo to ladder a bit better (something I struggle with)

I am definitely considering silicones. Any conditioners you love in that department?

I tried CWC ages ago but my hair was shorter then. I'll give it another shot! TY!


For those who love the TT, Realize the beauty of it for a moment - It has no knobs on the ends of it so it is more gentle when it comes to a strong knot as it can bend a bit and slip out of the caught area, therefore not just breaking through.

IMO - the invention of little knobs on the ends of hair brushes is nothing short of completely moronic. It litterally causes the ends of the hairs to BREAK in the event a knot is too caught to be run through the length. I feel it is a conspiracy to destroy the ends of hair forcing people to get more hair cuts.

There is only ONE brush outside of my TT that I use - It is this one: https://www.amazon.com/HAIR-DOC-Square-Paddle-Bamboo/dp/B003XW1EZM/ref=asc_df_B003XW1EZM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312126451328&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18069092146861111053&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9018572&hvtargid=pla-567754553702&psc=1

This brush is natural wood bristles with NO knobs on the ends. It will not rip knots. Further, the bamboo holds onto hair oil a bit, conditioning your hair as you go, not to mention the nice scalp massage you get as you brush. The PAD that holds the bristles is flexible enough that the bristles, like the TT do not catch and rip the hair, but at the same time I find i get a MUCH better result brushing with this vs the TT.

The only problem is that because this is a natural wood brush, you do NOT want to use it on WET HAIR. DRY ONLY. So when my hair is wet or damp, I do still use my TT, but that is only on wash days. The rest of the week I use my BBBB. (Big Bamboo Bass Brush)

I cannot say enough good things about this company. You should really consider this brush if you like the TT.

Strands, I have a similar wooden brush with no knobby ends and I like to use it sometimes but end up using my wooden comb more, for reasons I can't really put my finger on. I've not used a brush with knobs in awhile but you bring up some excellent points! Maybe I will try to find a Thick n Curly TT with a handle. That's another thing about my current TT that is hard for me to work with in the shower.

So much to think about, I love LHC :love:


Um, flipping between upside-down and upright might not be helping. It might be fine but if you're finding tangles after you've already detangled that could be it.

I was thinking about this last night as I was falling asleep lol. Maybe I should just do the whole process upside down? I much prefer to do most shower hair meddling with my hair hanging down and just on a sensory level don't enjoy wet hair clinging to my back. Hmm, definitely something to think about.


I personally do CWC and detangle after shampoo with the second C using a Mason Pearson comb - acetate and seamless, and I make sure to use a conditioner with at least decent slip. Jo Ann in another thread linked a different type of detangling comb that might be better than a usual shower comb ... I'll see if I can try to find the type ... Ah, here https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dY8AAOSwbj9ea5vG/s-l1600.jpg

I will check that out! I wouldn't mind having a comb I could use on wet or damp hair.


Speaking of which, depending on how your hair is with glycerin, the Garnier hair food masks are silicone-free and have ah-mazing slip! There are a couple of cone-free Ultimate/Whole Blends conditioners that are also cone-free depending on the market. Here the cranberry and argan oil one is cone-free and also has equivalent slip to the masks but without any glycerin. (I haven't tried any coney ones.)

I have looked longingly at the Hair Food masks (especially considering how affordable they are!) but they contain an ingredient that breaks me out fairly high up on the ingredients list (isopropyl myristate) so I haven't tried them. Maybe if I change my wash routine to include always being upside down I'll be able to use them on my length. You'd think at 40 I could stop worrying about stuff like this but that hasn't been my luck in this lifetime unfortunately. I will look more closely at the Ultimate Blends, all the ones I've seen near me are cone-y (and the one of those I've tried was meh imo.)

Thank you thank you! Everyone here has given me so much to think about. I will report back after my next wash day for sure. :applause

[Carrie's hair]

After reaching HL, I changed a few things:
- I started to brush my hair standing before washing, but sometimes it was sooo tangled that I couldn't, so...
- I used WCC. After the first C, I brush with my fingers gently to spread the product, I water my head, but not so as to rinse the conditioner completely, lightly squeeze the water and apply the second C. At this point, I start thorough combing (first with a comb, then a brush). Sometimes I add water and conditioners to increase the slip.
- I tie my hair more often.
- after each washing, I apply a silicone serum to wet hair.
- when my hair is dry, I add a second portion of the serum.

* I tried to protect my hair with oil instead of silicone serum, but it was not enough. Silicone protects them better.
* personally, I'm not a fan of TT.
* previously I did CWC or sometimes CWC.
* I have been washing my hair upside down for years.

I am introducing more changes in care. I've been combing only with my fingers for a month now.

EDIT: * previously I did CWC or sometimes CWC.
I mean... previously I did CW.

[knobbly]

After reaching HL, I changed a few things:
- I started to brush my hair standing before washing, but sometimes it was sooo tangled that I couldn't, so...
- I used WCC. After the first C, I brush with my fingers gently to spread the product, I water my head, but not so as to rinse the conditioner completely, lightly squeeze the water and apply the second C. At this point, I start thorough combing (first with a comb, then a brush). Sometimes I add water and conditioners to increase the slip.
- I tie my hair more often.
- after each washing, I apply a silicone serum to wet hair.
- when my hair is dry, I add a second portion of the serum.

* I tried to protect my hair with oil instead of silicone serum, but it was not enough. Silicone protects them better.
* personally, I'm not a fan of TT.
* previously I did CWC or sometimes CWC.
* I have been washing my hair upside down for years.

I am introducing more changes in care. I've been combing only with my fingers for a month now.

I am loving hearing what other folks do to change things at longer lengths! Thank you Carrie's hair. I am definitely going to try WCC but your technique is different than I have imagined it. So interesting.

[Carrie's hair]

I also love to read how others care for their hair. This is why I am here ;).

[knobbly]

I personally do CWC and detangle after shampoo with the second C using a Mason Pearson comb - acetate and seamless, and I make sure to use a conditioner with at least decent slip. Jo Ann in another thread linked a different type of detangling comb that might be better than a usual shower comb ... I'll see if I can try to find the type ... Ah, here https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dY8AAOSwbj9ea5vG/s-l1600.jpg


I have another question for you since clicking this link, MusicalSpoons. I have always wanted a seam-free comb in that design, but I’ve never found one. Do you know the brand of that one or a similar one?

[MusicalSpoons]

I have another question for you since clicking this link, MusicalSpoons. I have always wanted a seam-free comb in that design, but I’ve never found one. Do you know the brand of that one or a similar one?

I'm afraid I have absolutely no idea, sorry! I never took any real notice when my Mum used that design but I do have a hazy memory of them having seams :-/

[knobbly]

Okay, today was wash day, so I tried to do my whole wash upside down and... it was kind of a disaster lol.

Mostly it sucked because my back did not enjoy me being half bent over. If I could have been fully folded at the hips it would have been fine, but my hair would have been dragging on the floor that way, which I would assume would cause its own problems.

I know that for science I shouldn't have changed more than one thing, but I used a beer rinse (because it had already been sitting open in the fridge for a few days and I didn't want it to go bad :p) and used a new second conditioner with amodimethicone. I don't know how I feel about cones y'all. As soon as I put in the new condish, my hair felt somehow dry and stiff? I can't tell if I don't like how it feels or if it just feels different. I didn't use a leave-in, so we'll see how it all feels when it it dries.

All in all underwhelmed. :(

[Shorty89]

You've had many wonderful ideas but I'm wondering if the conditioner you're using may be high in protein and that is causing breakage from protein overload. That or using too many products causing build-up are my only ideas (that haven't already been mentioned).

[knobbly]

You've had many wonderful ideas but I'm wondering if the conditioner you're using may be high in protein and that is causing breakage from protein overload. That or using too many products causing build-up are my only ideas (that haven't already been mentioned).

I purposely chose two conditioners with no protein in them yesterday, so that’s not it! Aarrgghh I’m so frustrated. Maybe the beer? It’s never overloaded me with protein before though, and the tangle issue definitely exists even when there is no beer.

[jane_marie]

Hey knobbly! A bit earlier in the thread I saw that you were having trouble getting all of your hair wet. I find that splitting it onto three sections really helps me.

Beer can cause splits due to alcohol. If you want something to help with tangles I highly suggest a rosemary and catnip tea rinse instead. :)

[knobbly]

Hey knobbly! A bit earlier in the thread I saw that you were having trouble getting all of your hair wet. I find that splitting it onto three sections really helps me.

Beer can cause splits due to alcohol. If you want something to help with tangles I highly suggest a rosemary and catnip tea rinse instead. :)

Ooo neat! I haven’t delved into tea rinses yet but I will have to check it out! Thanks!

Good thing my cat doesn’t react to catnip at all haha. That’s the last thing I need to add to my wash day mix. :P

[Shorty89]

I purposely chose two conditioners with no protein in them yesterday, so that’s not it! Aarrgghh I’m so frustrated. Maybe the beer? It’s never overloaded me with protein before though, and the tangle issue definitely exists even when there is no beer.

How often have you used them since? It may take a bit of time to get the protein-moisture balance right.

[knobbly]

How often have you used them since? It may take a bit of time to get the protein-moisture balance right.

Hmm, I nearly always use LHDC at some point during my washday, but I think last time I used Giovanni Smooth as Silk, which does contain some protein. Hmm, maybe next time I'll do a DC with Banana Cream, which is super moisturizing and contains no protein. Thanks Shorty89!

[Shorty89]

Hmm, I nearly always use LHDC at some point during my washday, but I think last time I used Giovanni Smooth as Silk, which does contain some protein. Hmm, maybe next time I'll do a DC with Banana Cream, which is super moisturizing and contains no protein. Thanks Shorty89!

No problem. I hope it helps!

[knobbly]

You know-- the penny finally dropped and I realized today that the shampoo I've been using has protein in it! So that's going to be on the shelf until I figure this out. Thanks again Shorty89.

[MusicalSpoons]

On the other thread you mention you did your whole washing upside-down ... do you need to? Can you do it upright? If you leave conditioner to sit you can put it up in a bun with something like an acrylic stick or a claw clip to keep it off your body and out of the water. (That's what I've always done, even before LHC, though in fairness back then it was tied up with a hairtie because I didn't know about anything else shudder:)

[knobbly]

On the other thread you mention you did your whole washing upside-down ... do you need to? Can you do it upright? If you leave conditioner to sit you can put it up in a bun with something like an acrylic stick or a claw clip to keep it off your body and out of the water. (That's what I've always done, even before LHC, though in fairness back then it was tied up with a hairtie because I didn't know about anything else shudder:)

Yeah, that's what I've done previously, and what I think I'm going back to. My lower back was not happy with being upside down so much and I likely won't be able to maintain that position anyway once I get really pregnant, even if it was super comfortable! I have a bunch of plastic claw clips I can play with as I think my hair is getting too long for the one I usually use for this purpose.

[Shorty89]

You know-- the penny finally dropped and I realized today that the shampoo I've been using has protein in it! So that's going to be on the shelf until I figure this out. Thanks again Shorty89.

Yay! I wouldn't have thought of the shampoo being the culprit instead of the conditioner. It's odd for shampoo to have protein.

[knobbly]

Okay hair friends, I’m here with an update and an ask, for some of you, maybe.

I’ve been using diluted Suave Essentials shampoo to wash instead of the Giovanni protein bomb conditioner, and that has largely been fine. My scalp seems to not care whether sulfates are involved or not, so everything is fine in that regard. I’ve also been showering completely upright, which has been a change, but also largely a good one. Yay!

My new question is this: who here does their whole shower routine without detangling your hair and can you teach me your ways? I have been detangling while my hair is soaked with conditioner the CG way for so long (and as you can see I’m hardly a curly girl lol) that I’ve gotten it into my head that the only way the conditioner will coat all my strands is if I detangle it with conditioner on it. Is that hogwash or what? Can I just slap some conditioner on, squish it in, let it marinate while I wash the rest of me, and then rinse? If I don’t detangle in the shower, when should I detangle? While damp? After completely dry?

Am I overthinking this? :lol:

I just feel like I spend more and more time in the shower trying to detangle with my TT, fingers, whatever, and it never gets easier. I comb my hair when dry with a wooden comb and it’s not a nightmare, in fact it’s pretty easy and I never get breakage. I lose a lot of hair in the shower, most of it while trying to detangle after letting my conditioner sit. My hair isn’t getting any shorter anytime soon, and my showers are just getting longer.

Anyway tl;dr if you don’t detangle in the shower I’d love to hear how you do it and what makes your life easier.

[ynne]

I don't have any advice for detangling, but I wanted to say that in my experience, hair falling during shower could be because conditioner makes hair slippery and it helps release the shed hairs that are holding onto other hair? Unless you notice/hear that it's definitely breaking off and not just shedding, of course! So it could be the conditioner's slip & scalp manipulation loosening hair that was getting ready to fall out, maybe?

[Ylva]

Okay hair friends, I’m here with an update and an ask, for some of you, maybe.

I’ve been using diluted Suave Essentials shampoo to wash instead of the Giovanni protein bomb conditioner, and that has largely been fine. My scalp seems to not care whether sulfates are involved or not, so everything is fine in that regard. I’ve also been showering completely upright, which has been a change, but also largely a good one. Yay!

My new question is this: who here does their whole shower routine without detangling your hair and can you teach me your ways? I have been detangling while my hair is soaked with conditioner the CG way for so long (and as you can see I’m hardly a curly girl lol) that I’ve gotten it into my head that the only way the conditioner will coat all my strands is if I detangle it with conditioner on it. Is that hogwash or what? Can I just slap some conditioner on, squish it in, let it marinate while I wash the rest of me, and then rinse? If I don’t detangle in the shower, when should I detangle? While damp? After completely dry?

Am I overthinking this? :lol:

I just feel like I spend more and more time in the shower trying to detangle with my TT, fingers, whatever, and it never gets easier. I comb my hair when dry with a wooden comb and it’s not a nightmare, in fact it’s pretty easy and I never get breakage. I lose a lot of hair in the shower, most of it while trying to detangle after letting my conditioner sit. My hair isn’t getting any shorter anytime soon, and my showers are just getting longer.

Anyway tl;dr if you don’t detangle in the shower I’d love to hear how you do it and what makes your life easier.

I brush my hair before hopping into the shower - and that's the only time I brush it. That way, I don't need to detangle it in the shower at all.


I don't have any advice for detangling, but I wanted to say that in my experience, hair falling during shower could be because conditioner makes hair slippery and it helps release the shed hairs that are holding onto other hair? Unless you notice/hear that it's definitely breaking off and not just shedding, of course! So it could be the conditioner's slip & scalp manipulation loosening hair that was getting ready to fall out, maybe?

Definitely, and the scalp massage from applying shampoo or conditioner or whatever one puts there causes ready-to-fall hairs to come out some days earlier than they otherwise would have, which results in greater shedding during a wash.

[knobbly]

ynne your new avatar pic is :agape:


I brush my hair before hopping into the shower - and that's the only time I brush it. That way, I don't need to detangle it in the shower at all.

Definitely, and the scalp massage from applying shampoo or conditioner or whatever one puts there causes ready-to-fall hairs to come out some days earlier than they otherwise would have, which results in greater shedding during a wash.

Yes, I comb my hair prior to getting in the shower as well, but the addition of water seems to make my previously detangled hair into a terrifying mess of mats. Fine hair + super dense problems I guess.

I don’t know if I’m getting breakage from wet detangling as I don’t inspect wet hairs for breakage, I just toss them in the trash shudder: but I do know that I see actual sheds come out when rinsing, and that I feel pulling and stretching hairs when I’m detangling, and since I haven’t found a way to wet detangle that doesn’t involve that discomfort, the next thing on the list to try is to just not do it :shrug:

Thanks for the input you two! I’ll report back next Sunday.

[florenonite]

knobbly I have fine and dense hair as well and I never detangle in the shower; my hair HATES wet detangling. I brush with a TT before showering, then use the squish to condish method to literally squish the conditioner into my hair rather than trying to comb it through.

[MusicalSpoons]

I used to only comb dry, and for me the conditioner did its job just fine without being combed through - so yes you should be able to put it on, squish it in, marinate then rinse :) squishing it in can be as thorough as you feel is necessary.

(The reason I changed was partly to try to preserve texture but mainly because my hair didn't like being combed for the first few days after a wash, and I couldn't do that without detangling to make sure it finished the wash without knots.) If combing dry works for you, just do that - whatever makes your hair happiest!

[knobbly]

knobbly I have fine and dense hair as well and I never detangle in the shower; my hair HATES wet detangling. I brush with a TT before showering, then use the squish to condish method to literally squish the conditioner into my hair rather than trying to comb it through.

It is settled, I will try that next wash day.

So do you wait until it’s dry again to detangle? Or do it damp?

[florenonite]

It is settled, I will try that next wash day.

So do you wait until it’s dry again to detangle? Or do it damp?

I touch my hair as little as possible while it's drying as I try to preserve my waves as much as possible, so I don't comb for a day or so after washing (if I wash one evening, then if I wear my hair loose the next day I'll comb that evening or the following morning).

[Finda]

Okay hair friends, I’m here with an update and an ask, for some of you, maybe.

I’ve been using diluted Suave Essentials shampoo to wash instead of the Giovanni protein bomb conditioner, and that has largely been fine. My scalp seems to not care whether sulfates are involved or not, so everything is fine in that regard. I’ve also been showering completely upright, which has been a change, but also largely a good one. Yay!

My new question is this: who here does their whole shower routine without detangling your hair and can you teach me your ways? I have been detangling while my hair is soaked with conditioner the CG way for so long (and as you can see I’m hardly a curly girl lol) that I’ve gotten it into my head that the only way the conditioner will coat all my strands is if I detangle it with conditioner on it. Is that hogwash or what? Can I just slap some conditioner on, squish it in, let it marinate while I wash the rest of me, and then rinse? If I don’t detangle in the shower, when should I detangle? While damp? After completely dry?

Am I overthinking this? :lol:

I just feel like I spend more and more time in the shower trying to detangle with my TT, fingers, whatever, and it never gets easier. I comb my hair when dry with a wooden comb and it’s not a nightmare, in fact it’s pretty easy and I never get breakage. I lose a lot of hair in the shower, most of it while trying to detangle after letting my conditioner sit. My hair isn’t getting any shorter anytime soon, and my showers are just getting longer.

Anyway tl;dr if you don’t detangle in the shower I’d love to hear how you do it and what makes your life easier.

I have relatively thick hair, as in a lot of hair, and a hairdresser once told me I needed to comb in the conditioner/mask for it to reach every strand. I have also combed my hair in the shower with conditioner for years even before that because I always was convinced there wasn't another way.
Now I don't do that at all anymore. I also brush my hair before the shower and I have the same problem like you: as soon as the water hits the head, it tangles again. What helps me is CWC. That means I wet the hair and then start with conditioner. I part the hair in two halves and condition them, then I part the halves in quarters and so on. I often notice, when I part the hair anew, that there's always a lot of hair left untouched by the conditioner. By breaking it down to strands I circumvent that. It takes a while, but for me, it's really worth it.
Then I wash my hair, like you, diluted and afterwards I could almost do without the second conditioner. At the moment I have hardly any tangles at all. I would never have thought that possible years ago ;)

[ynne]

ynne your new avatar pic is :agape:

Thank you! c: I hope the routine changes will work for you, no longer stretching/pulling your hair.

[baanoo]

It is settled, I will try that next wash day.

So do you wait until it’s dry again to detangle? Or do it damp?

I haven't gotten to the top of the thread yet but wanted to jump in on this – I never ever detangle in the shower; it's a disaster. I never wash my hair upside down for that reason, too. I detangle really well before showering, and do squish to condish. I use a leave-in, followed by my glycerin/avoo/aloe/etc mix, and then plop it for a while. When it's halfway dry, I comb it out with a wide-toothed plastic comb, then gently scrunch it back (or not). I don't touch it again til it's completely dry – if I'm going to braid it back wet, I comb for that in my one-and-only detangling. Approaching it this way a huge difference in terms of breakage and hair fall for me and my wavy/fine/dense hair.

[knobbly]

I haven't gotten to the top of the thread yet but wanted to jump in on this – I never ever detangle in the shower; it's a disaster. I never wash my hair upside down for that reason, too. I detangle really well before showering, and do squish to condish. I use a leave-in, followed by my glycerin/avoo/aloe/etc mix, and then plop it for a while. When it's halfway dry, I comb it out with a wide-toothed plastic comb, then gently scrunch it back (or not). I don't touch it again til it's completely dry – if I'm going to braid it back wet, I comb for that in my one-and-only detangling. Approaching it this way a huge difference in terms of breakage and hair fall for me and my wavy/fine/dense hair.

Awesome! Thanks for the details! I’m definitely trying this on Sunday.