Mix of warm tones / cool tones - seeking help to move to cool tones

[tsf]

I'm a member from way back but I've been gone a while.

I have BSL hair. In my younger years it was medium brown with warm reddish undertones. As I aged it has become very dark brown with stark white grays. The dark brown/gray part is more cool tones.

So, I have scalp to about 6" is cool tones but the rest gradually transitions to warmer tones with some gray mixed in, though not as much gray as there is toward the roots. This isn't all that noticeable when it's down but it's very noticeable and weird looking when it's up, because the warm toned ends are next to the cool toned roots. ugh.

I presently use a purple tone shampoo and have also used Quicksilver hair mask. These help if the roots are getting brassy, but do nothing for the length, which remains brown with red undertones.
I used henna in the past but stopped when it became too much of a hassle and the warm tones were too red. I'm pretty sure that the henna is long ago grown out and cut off.

I would like suggestions on how I can resolve this. I'd like it all to be cool tones. In the distant past, I used box color to hide gray but the gray was very resistant to color, so I don't know if this would help. I don't want to hide the gray, I like the gray. What I want though is for the gray to be more silver, and lose the reddish undertones in the length so it's more consistent.

Haven't been to a salon since November, and no plans to go any time soon due to CV, so if there is something I could buy locally at a beauty supply store that would be best.

Thank you so much for any suggestions! I imagine that this is not an uncommon problem so hopefully someone can suggest a product to help.

[Mariekeeee14]

Perhaps use a cool tone of Overtone or another semi on your length to make it match your cool tones near your scalp more? You can experiment with it since it washes out eventually.

[Duchess Fuzzy Buns]

I don't have a suggestion for making the hair that is already there more cool toned, I just wanted to mention that sun exposure really makes my hair go warmer. It's quite ashy at the roots, but any time in the sun will turn it more warm-toned. So, once you figure out how to make your length match your cooler-toned roots, make sure you find ways to protect your hair from the sun to keep it that way!

[tsf]

hmmm, that’s really interesting. I have not heard of Overtones brand before. It might be. that the purple isn’t what I need, it might the blue that I should be using. My hair is wet now but tomorrow I’m going to send a photo to their contact email and see what they suggest. Thanks!

I had not really thought about the sun, though I do know that can be a problem. I live in a very sunny place, but it’s very hot and so I’m not outside much. However, since the ends are older hair, they could have brassiness that’s an accumulation of time. So I will definitely keep it under a hat. I’m diligent about keeping sun off my skin but never really worried much about my hair. I bought a cute straw hat last summer so I’ll make it a point to wear it!

[jane_marie]

Hi! Can I see a pic to help? I have been known to be pretty good at color correction. If I could see your hair I might be able to be more helpful. :)

A word to the wise: Blue is most likely going to pull warm toned hair green. Blues also tend to fade really oddly. It's really best to use a purple so that you can color correct to a cool tone.

Another thought: You can cheaply make your own overtone product by mixing your favorite conditioner with a semi permanent dye. The plus side to mixing it yourself is that 1) you can tune it to your needs (for a lighter color add more conditioner, for more pigmentation add more color) and 2) you can make a big supply of the same shade for maintenance.

[SleepyTangles]

I agree that a photo may be helpful :). But generally speaking, you could go for a permanent toner: many swear by Wella T18.
Is a peroxide activated toner (low volumes, I think you can use a 10vol, or 20vol if you have very stubborn hair).
It's a sheer silvery lavender, like the shampoo+conditioner but more long lasting. The idea is similar to a dye: cuticles are opened and the color deposited into the shaft, so some damage will occur.

If you want something not damaging at all, you could try diluiting a bright violet deposit-dye in some conditioner. You could customize It as dark or as light as you want.

ETA: Blue Is a bit more fickle. Unless you have very red hair I'd stick with violet.

[Obsidian]

I'd try a toner, just not T18 as thats for very light hair. You need a toner for your level of brown. You would want to keep it off your white streak if possible so get help applying it

[tsf]

Jeepers, this looks even worse than I thought.

My hair is all one length, about BSL. I'm okay with losing some length, as long as I have enough length to put it up in a bun (easily) and put in a ponytail.
I'm not inclined to try to grow it long... it has just enough wiry texture that it just looks fuzzy. With it at a little below shoulder, I can flat iron it and at least keep it marginally under control. I know ironing isn't good but I only do it the day after washing and that's about once a week, so it's not that big a contributor to damage, especially since I don't "style" it, I just smooth it down.

I realize most folks here have super long hair, or are working to have that, but that stopped working for me with menopause. Once that hit, hair turned into an instant mess and it's a real struggle to keep it even presentable, much less make it attractive. I had it waist length and just had to cut it all off - it was thick and long and wiry and I just could not deal with it. So, I've gotten to BSL, which is a little on the long side for me, but due to CV, I haven't been able to get a trim since November and probably will be a while before that happens.
Inside
https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/album.php?albumid=14245&attachmentid=41968

Outside - cloudy day
https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/album.php?albumid=14245&attachmentid=41969

[jane_marie]

The links aren't working for me. :(

[tsf]

I think the links should work now. It looks like I missed clicking that last button. Sorry about that!

[jane_marie]

I see them now! I would skip the Wella I think your auburn parts are too dark for it to make any difference. You'll need something vibrant enough that it looks scary. I would suggest a semi shade like Manic Panic Lie Locks mixed with two times as much conditioner of your choice on that section of hair. Be sure to strand text before you commit though when I color corrected over my henna it took a couple times to get my mixture just right.

For maintenance, I'd just do a conditioning treatment using the same mixture once a week or so (diluted more with conditioner if it has not faded too much).

Using semis as a color corrector of course would mean that the dye washes out so it can be a bit high maintenance but it does have the upside of not damaging it. '

Just my thoughts. :)

[tsf]

Wow, lots of good suggestions here, thank you so much!

I think I'll start with the Overtones. I may order some of the Wella. However, a while back I did an 'at-home' toner job and maybe I left it on too long or something but I had a definite grow out line. It was Ion 10x developer, with Ion Demi Clear Shine. However, since there was a line, obviously I had it at the scalp. So, maybe a toner is worth a shot but only putting it on the length, where it's so reddish, and avoiding the newer growth.

It's interesting, because when I was younger, I loved the red, and when doing henna, I loved the reddish hue from that. But as the gray has become more visible,the whole red thing has become a bad look.

I guess if I'm going to try new stuff, quarantine is the time to do it!

stay safe. :)

[Obsidian]

When you use the purple shampoo, do you let it sit on the hair or just wash normal with it?
With that much warm tone, you need to let the shampoo sit for awhile.

Try to get it just on the warmer bits and leave it on a good 10 minutes to start. Don't be afraid to put it one thick, a little blob won't be enough.

There are plenty of videos on youtube showing how to tone with purple shampoo. I don't think the shampoo will be enough to completely cover the warmth but it should help.

Unfortunately, the only permanent solution is coloring at a hairdresser or cutting.

[tsf]

Originally, I was just washing and rinsing. In the last couple of months, I've been letting it sit, but only about 3-4 minutes, which I think is what the instruction say. I'll try letting it sit longer.

I will probably go and have it colored, (once I feel safe) but only in foils (not all over) so it's either highlights or lowlights, whichever works the best. I absolutely refuse to get into the whole "covering the gray" cycle - it's way too much time and money that I don't have, and besides, a person my age with no gray hair isn't fooling anyone. I would love to go the other way and bleach it and find out if blondes do have more fun, but that's a level of commitment that is well beyond my patience or my wallet. I like the look of gray hair, though the texture is a real hassle.

I'm okay with having a salon do something to even up the color, as long as it doesn't require constant expensive maintenance. I'm really looking forward to getting it cut and will probably take about 2" off. Since it's become wiry, I find it overwhelming and the amount of hair in the vacuum is beyond belief, I don't know how I have any left on my head. However, taking that length off isn't really going to fix the problem if the hair just continues to become brassy as it grows.

The virus is becoming worse where I live and I am not comfortable going to a salon yet. That's just too much time too close to another person. My last salon visit was last November, and although my hair's certainly a lot longer, I don't see a lot of uneven ends at the moment, so I will continue to hold off. If it gets too uneven, I'll make my husband trim it. He'll find that prospect terrifying, I am sure.

[Jo Ann]

My 2¢ worth: If you want to correct the red in your hair, I'd try a conditioner-diluted semi-permanent green or teal dye. Green is the opposite of red on the color wheel (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_oOvBrjYsL7o/TMWQb3sVoSI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/5IF88j_Gz1g/s1600/colour_wheel.jpg). Try it on a few strands you don't see, like from the back of your head, and see if it's the result you want. If you don't like the result, it will wash out soon enough (especially if you use a clarifying shampoo or anti-dandruff shampoo) and you won't be stuck with the color on your hair.

If there's someone at the Sally Beauty Supply in your area that you trust, chat with them and see what they suggest.

[tsf]

I've used the purple shampoo three times since I posted. For my hair, that's a lot of washing, so it's pretty dried out and begging for a good deep conditioning treatment. I let the purple shampoo sit for about 20 minutes each time. I do think that it has helped a little. I would not say my hair looks good but it's less bad. The contrast is still very visible but the red has been toned down.

As Jo Ann noted about dandruff shampoo washing color out, I think that is probably a contributor here. I use an Rx dandruff shampoo and of course that has to sit on the scalp. I don't intentionally put it on the length, I try to keep is just to the scalp, but I'm sure it gets elsewhere. I can't stop with that though, it's finally starting to help.

I plan to continue with this for a while and see if it improves any more, and will be ordering some manic panic. I still have some of the bentonite clay (used in Quicksilver) so I will put some of that in my condish periodically.

It does look like the real fix is to cut off the harsh red ends, but I will have to wait for that. I'm in an area very hard hit by the pandemic and I'm not going out for anything unless it is absolutely essential. Unfortunately, a haircut doesn't rate on the life or death scale, and so it will wait at least a couple more months.

thanks all for the help! I love this forum, it's always full of helpful and supportive info. :)

[Kalamazoo]

The way I took care of henna making my blondette hair look orange, was to crush 4 blueberries & mix them into my hair mask. https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=150332&page=4&styleid=5

Washing out the bits of blueberry afterwards was a bit challenging. It would've been easier to use an extra blueberry or 2 & put the juice through a sieve, just adding the juice to the mask.

But I was very happy with the results.

[ynne]

Jeepers, this looks even worse than I thought.

My hair is all one length, about BSL. I'm okay with losing some length, as long as I have enough length to put it up in a bun (easily) and put in a ponytail.
I'm not inclined to try to grow it long... it has just enough wiry texture that it just looks fuzzy. With it at a little below shoulder, I can flat iron it and at least keep it marginally under control. I know ironing isn't good but I only do it the day after washing and that's about once a week, so it's not that big a contributor to damage, especially since I don't "style" it, I just smooth it down.
I know this isn't the main topic of the thread, but speaking from experience, flat ironing can actually be really, really damaging! When I used to flat iron my hair, it was also once a week or even less, but the damage slowly built up. So I wanted to suggest something else instead: blow-drying it might be much more gentle, especially if you used it on warm or cool settings? There are these brushes you can blowdry it over, so it settles into smooth waves. Just a thought. :)