Advice on how to pick the right type of medium brown colour please please please!

[cerelia]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forum and have come desperately seeking advice on understanding how to fix my hair :rolleyes: For about 10 years I coloured my hair at home (med brown), then started going to stylists every 5 weeks so I didn't have to deal with colouring it myself. She used Paul Mitchell Color XG. So far so good - my hair always looked shiny and beautiful.

Then I moved to Colorado, and I've had a TERRIBLE time finding a good stylist that doesn't leave bands in my hair when touching up the roots! As there are no Paul Mitchell stylists near me, I first went to an Aveda salon. They did an okay job of matching my roots to my color. Second time they did my roots, it was darker than the previous time, which gave me 3 bands. My stylist wasn't sure what happened, apologized, and tried to even it out by pulling color through. I ended up much darker (med/dark brown), which I really didn't want, but the color also gave my hair a red, brassy look when the sun hit it - instead of the usual beautiful cool gold tints in the brown, it was reddish/orange.

I decided to go to another stylist (Joico). A very similar experience happened. Over 3 months and I ended up with 3 different bands that I could see when I held my hair up to the mirror. So, I spent 5 weeks repeatedly clarifying my hair to lighten it all up so that it could then be coloured all over - one color (at least, that was my logic!). I went back, and finally my hair was colored one solid color of medium brown (she added a bit of ash to cool the orange tones in it). I thought my problems were fixed. Then, I go back to do a root touchup and suddenly have a dark band! I mean, like very dark brown. The stylist was surprised, and said my hair must have "taken differently this time" but she also said "Joico naturally lightens as time goes by, so you want to always do the roots darker anyway." Well... it looked awful. I'm SO frustrated that I'd like to just go back to coloring my hair at home, and have it all one medium brown with cool gold tints if the sun hits it, instead of brassiness. I really miss my hair back when the Paul Mitchell stylist used "color xg" on it, and I tried to reach her to find out my formula - unfortunately, I can't find her. I went to look at the colour swatches for color xg and now after this long-winded story I finally get to my point:

I don't know whether to buy "4n" (medium natural brown), "4nn" (medium natural natural brown), "4g" (medium golden brown) or "4a" (medium ash brown). My hair is 100% gray, and has a tendency to have quite a bit of red in it when the sun hits it. I much prefer a cool gold than warm gold, so stylists have always tweaked the color with ash (I "think" :confused:).

I would really, really appreciate any feedback on... if you were me... which color would you buy. I'm so tired of having horrible bands and really hope someone can advise me :pray:

Thank you SO much!!!

[Laurab]

I've never colored by hair, but I'll do my best to guess based off of what I've learned from youtube videos.

So first my guess about why your hair would always go red: What I've heard basically when you've got brown it's made up of a lot of different colors, and it goes through a lot of them when you lighten it. It'll go from brown to orange to yellow to white, getting through all of those pigments. When you want to dye grey hair, you've got to put all of those colors back in, since grey hair doesn't have any pigment to it. You've got to give grey hair that strong bold color to look like much of anything, and I imagine some stylists go too far with the reds and yellows, or maybe the dyes made for it are made too warm.

And then for the color you pick, it's all about the color wheel. To cancel out warm tones you need cool tones. Toner and purple shamppos seem to be what fixes this, or adding in those ash colors you descriebd.

I don't know what the difference would be with those colors (What on earth is natural natural???? :laugh: ) other than assuming you would want ash brown over golden, since you want the cool tones.

I really like Sam Vey on youtube, she's a hair stylist. Here's a video of her doing ash brown hair for someone who kept getting warmer colors than she wanted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sardc2js9Q

And here's one about toning (it's sponsored, but all of the info still seems good): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7cFUkFLzE8

Hopefully something in there was useful. Good luck!

[cjk]

I would really, really appreciate any feedback on... if you were me... which color would you buy. I'm so tired of having horrible bands and really hope someone can advise me :pray:

Thank you SO much!!!

I don't think the problem is your color. I think the problem is with your desire to color match a previous dye job.

The likelihood that you'll match the color after multiple dye jobs with multiple products is almost negligible. It comes down to the skill of your colorist, but matching that many dye jobs perfectly is going to require a very high degree of skill.

And that'll be very expensive.

Instead I suggest this. Stop trying to match it exactly. Blend it to another color with an ombre. That will soften the line and allow you to grow it and touch it up, easily, into the future.

[Dark40]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forum and have come desperately seeking advice on understanding how to fix my hair :rolleyes: For about 10 years I coloured my hair at home (med brown), then started going to stylists every 5 weeks so I didn't have to deal with colouring it myself. She used Paul Mitchell Color XG. So far so good - my hair always looked shiny and beautiful.

Then I moved to Colorado, and I've had a TERRIBLE time finding a good stylist that doesn't leave bands in my hair when touching up the roots! As there are no Paul Mitchell stylists near me, I first went to an Aveda salon. They did an okay job of matching my roots to my color. Second time they did my roots, it was darker than the previous time, which gave me 3 bands. My stylist wasn't sure what happened, apologized, and tried to even it out by pulling color through. I ended up much darker (med/dark brown), which I really didn't want, but the color also gave my hair a red, brassy look when the sun hit it - instead of the usual beautiful cool gold tints in the brown, it was reddish/orange.

I decided to go to another stylist (Joico). A very similar experience happened. Over 3 months and I ended up with 3 different bands that I could see when I held my hair up to the mirror. So, I spent 5 weeks repeatedly clarifying my hair to lighten it all up so that it could then be coloured all over - one color (at least, that was my logic!). I went back, and finally my hair was colored one solid color of medium brown (she added a bit of ash to cool the orange tones in it). I thought my problems were fixed. Then, I go back to do a root touchup and suddenly have a dark band! I mean, like very dark brown. The stylist was surprised, and said my hair must have "taken differently this time" but she also said "Joico naturally lightens as time goes by, so you want to always do the roots darker anyway." Well... it looked awful. I'm SO frustrated that I'd like to just go back to coloring my hair at home, and have it all one medium brown with cool gold tints if the sun hits it, instead of brassiness. I really miss my hair back when the Paul Mitchell stylist used "color xg" on it, and I tried to reach her to find out my formula - unfortunately, I can't find her. I went to look at the colour swatches for color xg and now after this long-winded story I finally get to my point:

I don't know whether to buy "4n" (medium natural brown), "4nn" (medium natural natural brown), "4g" (medium golden brown) or "4a" (medium ash brown). My hair is 100% gray, and has a tendency to have quite a bit of red in it when the sun hits it. I much prefer a cool gold than warm gold, so stylists have always tweaked the color with ash (I "think" :confused:).

I would really, really appreciate any feedback on... if you were me... which color would you buy. I'm so tired of having horrible bands and really hope someone can advise me :pray:

Thank you SO much!!!

Hi....I used to color my hair medium brown or black/dark brown. The best coloring product I use is Clairol Nice N Easy. They have some beautiful shades of medium brown. I would visit there website at: www.clairol.com and Nice N Easy is not damaging to the hair at all. Because, I've been using it for the last 30 years, and it always leaves my hair looking very shiny!

[SleepyTangles]

I don't think the problem is your color. I think the problem is with your desire to color match a previous dye job.

The likelihood that you'll match the color after multiple dye jobs with multiple products is almost negligible. It comes down to the skill of your colorist, but matching that many dye jobs perfectly is going to require a very high degree of skill.

And that'll be very expensive.

Instead I suggest this. Stop trying to match it exactly. Blend it to another color with an ombre. That will soften the line and allow you to grow it and touch it up, easily, into the future.

I agree with cjk, there are too many products and different color blends in your hair right now...
Can you give us a photo of your current hair situation? It's difficult to give advice "blindly".

[Faraniel]

My roots always look darker because the head emits heat. Peroxide works better with heat therefore it works a bit too much. Anyway, with so many different shades on your hair either just blend it or remove the colour and redye all of it again.

[lapushka]

Maybe I read over that part, but are you looking to do your hair yourself from now on? Because dye can't "lift" previous dye. All you can hope for is a better result on the root area. And if you like the root area after the color you put on, stick with that box dye, and also don't go salon hopping because they all use different brands and no color can match the previous one exactly.

[helluin]

Can you put a photo? I die my hair brown, i use a caramel brown, it's a little bit orange, because my hair turns orange always!

[cerelia]

I don't know what the difference would be with those colors (What on earth is natural natural???? :laugh: ) other than assuming you would want ash brown over golden, since you want the cool tones.

I really like Sam Vey on youtube, she's a hair stylist. Here's a video of her doing ash brown hair for someone who kept getting warmer colors than she wanted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sardc2js9Q

And here's one about toning (it's sponsored, but all of the info still seems good): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7cFUkFLzE8

Hopefully something in there was useful. Good luck!

Thank you, so helpful! I did figure out that nn has more pigment for stubborn gray that's difficult to colour 🤔.

[Wendyclaire]

I’d try a light brown root touch up product and use on roots and hairline, it will blend it all until you decide what color you want for a total dye job. I also comb it on the back of my hair which seems to go gray faster!

[01]

Ever tried henna and amla mix? It gives really nice, shiny brown.

Edit:
Oh, sorry, you want a cool tone.

[cerelia]

I don't think the problem is your color. I think the problem is with your desire to color match a previous dye job.

The likelihood that you'll match the color after multiple dye jobs with multiple products is almost negligible. It comes down to the skill of your colorist, but matching that many dye jobs perfectly is going to require a very high degree of skill.

And that'll be very expensive.

Instead I suggest this. Stop trying to match it exactly. Blend it to another color with an ombre. That will soften the line and allow you to grow it and touch it up, easily, into the future.

Well, I understand that when I go to a new stylist that uses a different color line, there will be a slight variation so I expected that. But, the issue seems to be that even after several root touch-ups of using a new line I'm having the exact same issue which has never happened in the past. For example, with Aveda, literally every single time I get a root touch-up I get a new separate colour band (almost like it's a slightly different shade of brown is used each time). The same thing with Joico, but much worse - horrible bands. And I gave each stylist at least 3-4 chances and I literally looked like a tiger! In 20 years of colouring my hair in the past with other stylists and myself, that never happened at all. My hair has always looked one lovely colour. It just seems bizarre to me that the banding is suddenly happening all the time now.

Part of me wonders if it's something to do with the weather, or the quality of the water. But I've spoken to a couple of people that colour their gray hair here and they don't have the same issue at all. They have no bands at all when their hair is freshly coloured (they do it themselves) :bigeyes:

[cerelia]

Yep! This is from 6 months ago - picture this with 5 bands instead of just 1! I don't have an updated one with me and I'm at work right now.
https://bit.ly/3bXKEpx

I mean, that's ridiculous to me! And the stylists I've used did have very good ratings. :draw: So, I'd just rather do it myself, and I love that Paul Mitchell doesn't test on animals, so I thought I'd go for that line. But I had no idea whether to choose n, nn, g, or a for all the different types of brown shades.

[cerelia]

Well, I did put a link to the picture in the reply above, but it disappeared. Here it is again: https://bit.ly/3bXKEpx

[cjk]

Hair will naturally vary in color, but not usually in horizontal stripes. I see what you're talking about.

The problem is that there are so many variables involved, that even if they used the same formula and products it would be from a different batch. Or the ambient temperature in the salon would be different. And fading due to sunlight or other environmental factors must also be factored in.

To make it even worse, blending it with the closest color band might not work anyway, because you said that the other color bands are from different product lines.

Above, one of the ladies mentioned how her roots always come out darker because the heat from her scalp makes them process faster. That's why you treat the roots last.

You need a skilled colorist to correct that mess. Not to do a root touch up, but to do your entire head so that everything blends together. Earlier I mentioned an ombre, you might even need to go for full balayage.

After that, you can maintain.

Do you normally maintain at home or is it your intention to continue going to a salon?

[lapushka]

Well, I did put a link to the picture in the reply above, but it disappeared. Here it is again: https://bit.ly/3bXKEpx

If that is your roots, I'd just let it grow out. If you don't have grays that you're trying to hide, there's really no sense in dyeing it, especially if it's that close to your natural color.

[Hasse]

If that is your roots, I'd just let it grow out. If you don't have grays that you're trying to hide, there's really no sense in dyeing it, especially if it's that close to your natural color. In the OP it's stated that she has 100% gray hair.

[lapushka]

In the OP it's stated that she has 100% gray hair.

I often can't read huge chunks of text, sorry. I had no idea. Thanks! :)

[Faraniel]

Did they dye just the roots? Sometimes it happens to me that new colour doesn't stick to my lightened hair.

[lapushka]

Maybe try a box dye, and pull the color through.

My mom is fully gray. When she does her roots, it will be about 3/4 months since her last dyeing process. She'll put the dye on the roots, let it sit for 20 minutes (according to directions on her particular dye). Then she does the lengths (pull it through) and lets it sit for another 10 minutes. This is how it always comes out even.

But! It is always the same dye, and that is key.

I think the last color is a very pretty one, if it matters any.

[SleepyTangles]

Thank you for the photo cerelia! Yes, I do see some banding... I think the fault lies in the different formulas used by hairdressers, and different lenght of your roots regrowth.

If you really want a clean canvas to work on, I'd use a color remover. Once your hair is stripped of all the color you will probably be able: first, to assess how bad is the banding underneath the pigment; second, to re-dye everything with the same haircolor and product.
As for browns, I won't chose anything darker than a level 6, as you can always go darker but lightening Is much more difficult and damaging.

Now, the question is: how comfortable you are with DIY all this stuff?

[lapushka]

Now, the question is: how comfortable you are with DIY all this stuff?

If it's your first time.

My mom makes a middle part. Does her roots, section by section, to the left, moves all the hair over and does the other half. Then she does the back, from crown to nape, section by section (horizontally).

It is not easy if you're not used to it, so if there is someone to help you, I would enlist some help.

[SleepyTangles]

If it's your first time.

My mom makes a middle part. Does her roots, section by section, to the left, moves all the hair over and does the other half. Then she does the back, from crown to nape, section by section (horizontally).
It is not easy if you're not used to it, so if there is someone to help you, I would enlist some help.

Exactly, if it´s a new territory it may feel a bit overwhelming! Iit´s not so difficult if you have to cover your entire head with a single product, but it may be stressful if there is any precision/spot correction to do.

General dye advice that may be helpful or not (YMMV and everyone takes dye differently):
- Wait 3 or 4 days between using a Color Remover and dyeing your hair again: color removers leave hair cuticles very open, dye can penetrate far too easily, leaving the color much darker; in alternative, go one or two tones lighter than your usual color. But waiting a bit is usually the safest option.
- If, after removing the color, you see that the banding is still visible(and you don´t want to spot-correcting it with bleach because you feel it´s too damaging, or too easy to mess up), keep in mind a permanent haircolor mixed with 20vol or 30vol developer will have a better chance of evening it out than a demi-permanent mixed with a 10 vol. Haircolor is not meant to lift, but a formula with ammonia and a higher peroxide content may stand a chance against minor imperfections (this last advice it´s just my two cents, as I´m not a professional hairdresser and I´d be glad to have a second, third and fourth opinion on the matter).
- Most dye producers advise that, when you are doing your roots, after 20 minutes or so to pull/comb the dye through your length and let it sit for 10 or fifteen minutes, to avoid any harsh lines or banding.
- In my experience, excessive perfectionism is dangerous. Sometimes the best choice is to embrace color variation and imperfections, and let it go. Chances are that other people can´t even see what it´s bothering us.