Hard water

[Infinity87]

I live in part of the country with VERY hard water. We live in a 140 year old farmhouse with no water softener. It has been hell on my hair. It is dry, frizzy, and dull. I was wondering if there is anything I can do (aside from installing a water softener or filtration system) to help bring back the soft, sleek, shiney mane I am so used to.

[florenonite]

You could try something like Nightblooming's alluvial rinse (https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/600148378/alluvial-chelating-crystal-rinse-10) to remove hard water buildup, though if your water is very hard it might not be enough (the US defines 'very hard' as over 180ppm, but in my area it's 400-600ppm).

Could you share a bit more about your routine? If you're using shampoo bars made from saponified oils, for instance (ie soap), they tend not to react well to hard water and you may need to switch to a synthetic detergent.

[Zesty]

Yeah my first thought is a (diluted) acid rinse. Something like Alluvial or a vinegar or citric acid rinse. I don't know ratios off the top of my head but very diluted.

Also might be worth getting a chelating shampoo to use for buildup every so often. They're often marketed as swimmer's shampoos iirc but someone else might know better.

[ChloeDharma]

Yeah my first thought is a (diluted) acid rinse. Something like Alluvial or a vinegar or citric acid rinse. I don't know ratios off the top of my head but very diluted.

Also might be worth getting a chelating shampoo to use for buildup every so often. They're often marketed as swimmer's shampoos iirc but someone else might know better.

I agree with these suggestions. I live in a hard water area and find the best way to reduce mineral build up is to finish every wash with an acidic rinse like diluted ACV but also adding a chelating shampoo into the routine works wonders, particularly if you also include a deep conditioning treatment into that wash.
The shampoo i used to clarify and chelate is Tresemme Deep Cleansing shampoo. It has Disodium EDTA in it which seems a pretty effective chelator.

[lapushka]

We have hard water in this region as well, but I somehow never got issues from it. :shrug:

I always am amazed that people can get such negative side-effects from it. But YMMV.

Welcome to the forum! :D

[Nightshade]

It might be more than just hard water, if you're on a farm and on well water you could also have a lot of minerals in your water, too. My parent's well water was very high in iron and sulfur, for example and the water would start to smell sulfury if you hadn't changed the filter often enough.

[florenonite]

We have hard water in this region as well, but I somehow never got issues from it. :shrug:

I always am amazed that people can get such negative side-effects from it. But YMMV.

Welcome to the forum! :D

It depends a lot on how hard it is. My parents' water is over 600ppm - but "hard" water designation starts at 120ppm and very hard at 180ppm (though these categories can vary from country to country). The harder the water, the more likely it is to cause problems; a person might have no issues with 150ppm hard water, but get straw-like hair at 450ppm.

[xoAshley]

I’m curious- Have you experienced any breakage from your hard water? It’s awful.

[MusicalSpoons]

It depends a lot on how hard it is. My parents' water is over 600ppm - but "hard" water designation starts at 120ppm and very hard at 180ppm (though these categories can vary from country to country). The harder the water, the more likely it is to cause problems; a person might have no issues with 150ppm hard water, but get straw-like hair at 450ppm.

Also, water quality varies and makes a difference - you can have (say) 350ppm without problems because it has a pH of roughly 7 and is relatively pure, but 350ppm at pH 8.5 with iron and other minerals is much more likely to wreck your hair. Water with a high pH tends to act like harder water - and the higher the pH, the worse it gets.

Ours is around 320/330 ppm; I've grown up with it and because of the water quality I've never had problems either - but I suspect I would fare much worse over in America or Canada!

[florenonite]

Also, water quality varies and makes a difference - you can have (say) 350ppm without problems because it has a pH of roughly 7 and is relatively pure, but 350ppm at pH 8.5 with iron and other minerals is much more likely to wreck your hair. Water with a high pH tends to act like harder water - and the higher the pH, the worse it gets.

Ours is around 320/330 ppm; I've grown up with it and because of the water quality I've never had problems either - but I suspect I would fare much worse over in America or Canada!

This is a good point. Hardness is only one measure of the overall quality of the water, so it might not be the one causing problems.

I had such a hard time adjusting to the super soft water in Scotland after growing up round here; even with a water softener our water is harder than most Scottish water and it was such a change. Of course, even the fact that you can lump all of Scottish water together as "very soft to reasonably soft" is a big change, coming from a country as big as Canada! We have pretty much everything here :p

[lapushka]

It depends a lot on how hard it is. My parents' water is over 600ppm - but "hard" water designation starts at 120ppm and very hard at 180ppm (though these categories can vary from country to country). The harder the water, the more likely it is to cause problems; a person might have no issues with 150ppm hard water, but get straw-like hair at 450ppm.

Yes I believe that was touched upon last time as well.

What I can find on the water in my street is this:

German degrees: 9,0
French degrees: 16,1
Mmol/l: 1,61

[florenonite]

Yes I believe that was touched upon last time as well.

What I can find on the water in my street is this:

German degrees: 9,0
French degrees: 16,1
Mmol/l: 1,61

Aha, looks like that's about 160ppm. So hard, but not very hard :)

[Shorty89]

I’m curious- Have you experienced any breakage from your hard water? It’s awful.

I had more breakage from the hard water at my parent's house. I still have trouble when I go back to visit, even with ACV rinses and what not. I often resort to shampoo instead of CO. At home, about an hour south, I don't have that problem.

ETA:

Water hardness in my city is:

Between 166 - 216 or 11.6 - 15.1. I've seen it as high as 17 during run-off season.

My parents' water is: 220 or 12.9.


The two cities get water from different rivers so they may also have different minerals etc, but both rivers come from the Rocky Mountains.

[Nightshade]

Also, water quality varies and makes a difference - you can have (say) 350ppm without problems because it has a pH of roughly 7 and is relatively pure, but 350ppm at pH 8.5 with iron and other minerals is much more likely to wreck your hair. Water with a high pH tends to act like harder water - and the higher the pH, the worse it gets.

Ours is around 320/330 ppm; I've grown up with it and because of the water quality I've never had problems either - but I suspect I would fare much worse over in America or Canada!

My water is ~200ppm and has a pH of 8.6+ (that's the highest my aquarium test strips go and it maxes them out for both hardness and alkalinity).

[lapushka]

Aha, looks like that's about 160ppm. So hard, but not very hard :)

Oh that explains it then! Thank you! :D

[MusicalSpoons]

My water is ~200ppm and has a pH of 8.6+ (that's the highest my aquarium test strips go and it maxes them out for both hardness and alkalinity).

See, I was getting slightly jealous seeing all the relatively lower numbers on this page (page 2, not the 400-600 on page 1 ;)) but then this brought it back into perspective! Our pH is 7.6 on average, for which I am very grateful.

[Shorty89]

See, I was getting slightly jealous seeing all the relatively lower numbers on this page (page 2, not the 400-600 on page 1 ;)) but then this brought it back into perspective! Our pH is 7.6 on average, for which I am very grateful.

Google says around 7.2 here. How would ph affect hair?

[MusicalSpoons]

Google says around 7.2 here. How would ph affect hair?

Well dammit now I'm jealous again :p

It's not so much the pH itself (well, it is a factor) but a higher pH means more minerals will bind to the hair. I don't know the science behind it though.

https://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2016/03/hard-water-and-your-hair.html


Hardness in relation to pH and your hair:

The higher the pH of your water, the more minerals will bind to your hair from the hard water. In pH 7 water (neutral) both bleached and unbleached hair took up lesser amounts of mineral cations than in pH 8 and pH 9 water.

As the pH of your water goes up, so does the amount of minerals that will bind to or find their way into your hair. Damaged hair still takes up more minerals - but pH makes a significant difference.

[Shorty89]

Well dammit now I'm jealous again :p

It's not so much the pH itself (well, it is a factor) but a higher pH means more minerals will bind to the hair. I don't know the science behind it though.

https://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2016/03/hard-water-and-your-hair.html

:lol: Thanks for the link. I'm not super science-y so I don't know off the top of my head. I'm always curious about the difference between the water at my place in the city and my parents' place in a small town. It's so dramatic on my hair. And, it varies even within the city. At my old place, I didn't have to do ACV rinses after washing my hair. Here I do!

[Infinity87]

I use Joico K-pak shampoo and conditioner (wash 1x a week) and It’s a 10 Miracle leave in product

[Infinity87]

I’m curious- Have you experienced any breakage from your hard water? It’s awful.

Not that I can tell

[Infinity87]

Google says around 7.2 here. How would ph affect hair?

The natural PH of hair, skin, and nails is 4.5-5.5 which is on the acidic side. A higher ph can strip and is very drying.

[The Lizard Wife]

Well thanks to this thread I've googled and found that our water is not as ridiculously hard as I thought, not really over 200ppm. The real problem is that the ph averages 9 to 10. Maybe that's why my skin can't stand to be washed and my hair gets so dried out!

[MusicalSpoons]

Well thanks to this thread I've googled and found that our water is not as ridiculously hard as I thought, not really over 200ppm. The real problem is that the ph averages 9 to 10. Maybe that's why my skin can't stand to be washed and my hair gets so dried out!

YIKES that'll do it! :thud: the good news is that you can probably neutralise that with something like citric acid - much easier and cheaper than trying to soften it - and your hair and skin should be noticeably happier :)

[littlestarface]

Also, water quality varies and makes a difference - you can have (say) 350ppm without problems because it has a pH of roughly 7 and is relatively pure, but 350ppm at pH 8.5 with iron and other minerals is much more likely to wreck your hair. Water with a high pH tends to act like harder water - and the higher the pH, the worse it gets.

Ours is around 320/330 ppm; I've grown up with it and because of the water quality I've never had problems either - but I suspect I would fare much worse over in America or Canada!

Yikes, our water has a ph of 8.9 my poor hair and skin :wail:

[ynne]

You could try something like Nightblooming's alluvial rinse (https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/600148378/alluvial-chelating-crystal-rinse-10) to remove hard water buildup, though if your water is very hard it might not be enough (the US defines 'very hard' as over 180ppm, but in my area it's 400-600ppm).

Could you share a bit more about your routine? If you're using shampoo bars made from saponified oils, for instance (ie soap), they tend not to react well to hard water and you may need to switch to a synthetic detergent.
Thank you for this info! I never realized the general classifiers might differ so much, but apparently here, "very hard" also starts only around 370ppm which puts things in perspective. (Had to use conversion, hopefully got it right!)


See, I was getting slightly jealous seeing all the relatively lower numbers on this page (page 2, not the 400-600 on page 1 ;)) but then this brought it back into perspective! Our pH is 7.6 on average, for which I am very grateful.
To make you feel better, local water has 250–400ppm! At least pH is reasonable as well.

[Arciela]

I live in NYC where we have soft water. Makes my hair so soft and shiny :) it can easily make it greasy though. Pantene and a sulfate shampoo makes my hair look great and I can go a while between washes

I used to live in Southern California where the water was cloudy..hard water. My hair was always dry, icky and littered with white dots. Nothing I did helped. I'd like to think a water softener would help..but beyond that I had no luck no matter what I did.

[NicoleLionne]

How interesting! I had no idea ph of tapwater would differ so much across countries. Apparently it's between 7.8 and 8 where I live and moderately hard. Definitely explains why my hair likes ACV rinses so much. My parents have a filter and my hair is a lot shinier when I wash it at their house.