If tips are sticking out how protective is it?

[jane_marie]

I've been struggling with putting my hair up for awhile. It's quite think and heavily layered. Since my hair was really hard to put up for awhile I just kept it down. It was already damaged from bleach and dry from henna so having it exposed caused some massive issues with splits.

Yesterday I cut about 1.5-2" off of the bottom and less off the layers. Here's a pic to give an idea of what I cut off.
https://i.imgur.com/BRA10qk.jpg?1

Good News: It looks good down, feels softer and I can't find any splits

Bad News: The one or two protective styles that I had just started being able to do are no longer possible.

I know that due to the bleach my hair is pretty delicate right now. If I keep it down the splits are just going to come back.

This morning, after numerous attempts I managed to get it into a braided bun by doing double dutch braids then braiding the hair in to one larger braid once the dutch braids reached my nape. The result is REALLY messy. Due to the layers there are still a lot of hairs sticking out.

Photo:

https://i.imgur.com/FmGxhYF.jpg?1

I'm curious how protective this could possibly be considering how many ends are sticking out. :neutral:

Is this better than having it down?

For the record this is after about 7 bobby pins.

[Zesty]

I think it's definitely better than having it down because even if the ends are poking out they're not rubbing on things. Similarly I would consider a peacock twist to be protective, at least at shorter lengths. Tucking them when you can would be *better* once you can manage it, to protect from the elements and preserve moisture better, but for now I don't see a problem with what you're showing in the photo.

Just be careful removing the bobby pins.

[jane_marie]

I think it's definitely better than having it down because even if the ends are poking out they're not rubbing on things. Similarly I would consider a peacock twist to be protective, at least at shorter lengths. Tucking them when you can would be *better* once you can manage it, to protect from the elements and preserve moisture better, but for now I don't see a problem with what you're showing in the photo.

Just be careful removing the bobby pins.

Thanks for responding. It's good to know that I'm at least preventing a little damage.

Since my hair is now less layered do you think that means it's going to have to be longer than it had been before I can do the more protective styles that were working pre cut?

[Zesty]

Thanks for responding. It's good to know that I'm at least preventing a little damage.

Since my hair is now less layered do you think that means it's going to have to be longer than it had been before I can do the more protective styles that were working pre cut?

I'm not an expert in thick hair or layers but I'd almost think it would help things not poke out? But then again you won't have as much artificial taper for tucking purposes. :shrug: Maybe someone with more experience can weigh in.

[SleepyTangles]

It's moderately protective, less tangles and knots, less exposure to elements. I'd say it's a bit more protective than a braid :)

[jane_marie]

I'm not an expert in thick hair or layers but I'd almost think it would help things not poke out? But then again you won't have as much artificial taper for tucking purposes. :shrug: Maybe someone with more experience can weigh in.

Nah, the layers make the hair poke out because it doesn't all end in one spot. In my case, the layers are about chin length down. They sort of have the same effect as short hairs do in causing braid fraying.

Of course, it's probably different if you just have the last couple inches layered. :shrug:

8i think my current problem is that I have messed with my thickness ratio by cutting off that last two inches.

[leayellena]

Try double or 3 stacked buns or double buns. Best is start with a french braid. Your layers are outer layers like mine so a Dutch braid will only look messy and ends will pock out. You have coarse thick hair and thickness-length ratio is somewhat different from medium hair.
I have fine hair but lots of it. It breaks easily and I have to tuck as many ends as possible. Braided buns for the win!

[jane_marie]

Try double or 3 stacked buns or double buns. Best is start with a french braid. Your layers are outer layers like mine so a Dutch braid will only look messy and ends will pock out. You have coarse thick hair and thickness-length ratio is somewhat different from medium hair.
I have fine hair but lots of it. It breaks easily and I have to tuck as many ends as possible. Braided buns for the win!

Okay, thanks for the help! :)

[shelomit]

I mean, if my hair is down it is constantly catching on stuff, so even the messiest bun will help you avoid that type of damage.

[CopperButterfly]

Have you tried a disc bun? It can work with thick hair better because you split it in 2 before wrapping.

And to answer your question, I also feel like having the ends poke out but up is more protective than just down, because there's no rubbing and less tangles.

[jane_marie]

Have you tried a disc bun? It can work with thick hair better because you split it in 2 before wrapping.

And to answer your question, I also feel like having the ends poke out but up is more protective than just down, because there's no rubbing and less tangles.

I have It just sort of pops out about two seconds after I put the stick in. It's really quite upsetting. lol

[lapushka]

Why not wear a peacock twist / log roll. A log roll is "just about" the same but folded over, with ends tucked nicely in. I used to secure this with a claw clip and wore it from about APL to waist/hip, to where I could comfortably do a regular bun. I honestly think that is a better option than trying to do buns right now (at iii) when that's not too too realistic ATM with that thickness.

[jane_marie]

Why not wear a peacock twist / log roll. A log roll is "just about" the same but folded over, with ends tucked nicely in. I used to secure this with a claw clip and wore it from about APL to waist/hip, to where I could comfortably do a regular bun. I honestly think that is a better option than trying to do buns right now (at iii) when that's not too too realistic ATM with that thickness.

I have ordered about ten claw clips and bought several more and none of the ones I have fit my hair they aren't "deep" enough and often break. It's starting to get expensive.

As a last resort, I ordered this claw clip (https://www.amazon.com/Karina-K9734-Tort-Claw-Hairclip/dp/B004LXMOJM) suggested to me by Legeia Noire but it's not here yet. If it doesn't work I am going to be so freaking devastated.

Side note: Why does the this clip that might be the only one that is big enough for my stupid hair only come in brown???? I HATE wearing brown. I don't even have brown shoes. Even if it does work it's not going to match anything I own.

I'm starting to get really frustrated with this whole thing.

Edit: Actually, no I have been really frustrated with this for months now.

[lapushka]

jane_marie, a flexi8 or Ficcare or barrette (they never fit my thickness) would also work, if you have that in your stash?

[jane_marie]

jane_marie, a flexi8 or Ficcare or barrette (they never fit my thickness) would also work, if you have that in your stash?

I have one Ficcare. I guess my scalp must be sensitive or something because wearing it hurts really bad. It's to the point that I don't understand how they have such a following.

I have one extra Large french clip but it only works for half ups.

As for flexis. I don't mean to be picky but I really dislike the look of them for my style. I guess maybe I could make one and find a way for it not to look... well... like a flexi but I really don't want to pay that much money for something I am going to get zero enjoyment from wearing.

lapushka, what the heck is wrong with my hair? Why is it so thick? 7 months ago when I went to the salon I had the take thinning shears to it and when I left my hair was at least 1/4 lighter. It was a serious amount of hair. How freaking big is it going to be when all the layers and thinning have grown out? If I do grow out the layers how long do you think it will have to be in order for me to have it up?

[jane_marie]

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be annoying but I'm having a breakdown over this. It's really upsetting.

[elise.autumn]

jane_marie <3 you got this

It sounds like your hair is pretty healthy - soft and no splits? If so, maybe what you're doing is working, and although protective styles are good when possible, you don't need to worry about them at the moment? Then when your hair gets longer and your layers grow out, you can do more styles. Worst case scenario, you get a bit of damage and trim when your hair is longer. Maybe?

[shelomit]

I think I saw someone suggest this to you a while ago in a different context, and I have no personal experience with them, but perhaps try a paranda? That way your hair wouldn't have to bend as sharply as if you were braiding it by itself, and the longer-than-natural braid could make a solid base for an updo if that's what you like--?

[jane_marie]

jane_marie <3 you got this

It sounds like your hair is pretty healthy - soft and no splits? If so, maybe what you're doing is working, and although protective styles are good when possible, you don't need to worry about them at the moment? Then when your hair gets longer and your layers grow out, you can do more styles. Worst case scenario, you get a bit of damage and trim when your hair is longer. Maybe?

It's soft with no splits right now because I just cut it last night. Before I cut it it was dry and all splits. That's what has prompted this. I was so frustrated with not being able to do anything with it that up until very very recently I was just wearing it down when I have bleach damage in 15F temps resulted in a tons of splits.

I'm freaking out about this because my hair is noce right now and I need to figure out how to protect it so I don't have to take another 2" off.


I think I saw someone suggest this to you a while ago in a different context, and I have no personal experience with them, but perhaps try a paranda? That way your hair wouldn't have to bend as sharply as if you were braiding it by itself, and the longer-than-natural braid could make a solid base for an updo if that's what you like--?

I've played with parandas a bit and as far as stuff sticking out goes parandas are the absolute worse (for me at least) I think it's because I basically have continuous layering from shoulder down so those long bends end up just being big spikes of hair sticking out.

[lapushka]

lapushka, what the heck is wrong with my hair? Why is it so thick? 7 months ago when I went to the salon I had the take thinning shears to it and when I left my hair was at least 1/4 lighter. It was a serious amount of hair. How freaking big is it going to be when all the layers and thinning have grown out? If I do grow out the layers how long do you think it will have to be in order for me to have it up?

Your thickness is 5 inches, right? I'm a "measly" 4.25 inches and I already have layers. I could only go to waist with my hair and it is not even *that* thick!

I think maybe TBL/classic? But it all also depends on the bun you are wanting to do. For me a LWB (lazy wrap) was the fastest I could do a bun.

Hey, why not ask our Ligeia, she has iii and just about unlayered hair (except for face framers that have grown out I think), and very long lengths! It can be done!!!

[jane_marie]

Your thickness is 5 inches, right? I'm a "measly" 4.25 inches and I already have layers. I could only go to waist with my hair and it is not even *that* thick!

I think maybe TBL/classic? But it all also depends on the bun you are wanting to do. For me a LWB (lazy wrap) was the fastest I could do a bun.

Hey, why not ask our Ligeia, she has iii and just about unlayered hair (except for face framers that have grown out I think), and very long lengths! It can be done!!!

I'm 5 right now. Legeia has weighed in a bit on this already... one of the first times I freaked out on this issue. She suggested that claw clip which I am both really hoping works and also a bit angry about because it only comes in brown. I'm not sure if she stated then she was first able to do buns. Though I do think she said it's been a very long time since her hair was as short as mine is.

I'm not worried about a lack of ability for it to grow long... not that I'm sure it can. I'm more worried because I don't think I want to have hair past TBL and I'm going to be really upset if I go through the trouble of growing it just to find that I have to have it at a length I'm not happy with just to wear it up so it can be nice and healthy.I'm worried that without the taper that my layers create I'm not going to beable to put it up at tailbone still. I'm short. It's not THAT far away. I mean, I can't put it up now and look how much taper I have in my sigpic.

Do you think it's even worth trying to grow the layers out?

[shelomit]

I've played with parandas a bit and as far as stuff sticking out goes parandas are the absolute worse (for me at least) I think it's because I basically have continuous layering from shoulder down so those long bends end up just being big spikes of hair sticking out.

Ah sure, I can see why that would be. Sad it didn't help. I hope you'll find some good solutions soon <3

[jane_marie]

Ah sure, I can see why that would be. Sad it didn't help. I hope you'll find some good solutions soon <3

Thanks so much for trying. Sorry I'm an absolute wreck about this. I'm sure it's annoying.

[shelomit]

Thanks so much for trying. Sorry I'm an absolute wreck about this. I'm sure it's annoying.

No worries, no apologies, and no, you're not annoying. Some things just are frustrating, and frustration is hard to bear in the long term.

[Rowdy]

I'd say grow it long before you grow the layers out. That's what i did :)

You sound like you have a very sensitive scalp, so do I. I can't do anything that involves 'grabbing' scalp hair at all. What length are you at in inches? I remember the 27" - 28" range being THE WORST for just, everything! I'm a 3.75" pony and with layers I could just start to do buns at 29" but they were too painful. After 30" I could manage some without scalp hair anchoring it. Now at 32" with a blunt hemline I can't do much, nap buns are a no-go.

Top of the head pony with https://www.target.com/p/invisibobble-original-crystal-clear-hair-elastic/-/A-75558383?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&CPNG=PLA_Beauty%2BPersonal+Care%2BShopping_Local&adgroup=SC_Health%2BBeauty&LID=700000001170770pgs&network=g&device=c&location=9016918&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1247077&ds_rl=1246978&gclid=CjwKCAiAyeTxBRBvEiwAuM8dnd95UnZmF5HPuTsMIccW v6CBAlZEmMvccfT0OpVT9ayegTwe6LYQ9hoCMtoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds (off brand ones die quickly ;)) I wrap the ponytail like a loose bee-butt but with the undercoils hidden and pin through the invisabobble, not the scalp hair, with a quattro starlite https://www.etsy.com/listing/103258030/hair-forks-by-quattro-starlites-combo. They are stupidly expensive but hold like nothing else. This is the bun I have worn for the past 2 years.

With your thickness you are probably going to have to divide and conquer with multi buns for a while. I'm sorry your hair is causing you so much anxiety :(


eta: I was talking about single buns, with double buns I can do nape buns just fine.

[jane_marie]

I'd say grow it long before you grow the layers out. That's what i did :)

You sound like you have a very sensitive scalp, so do I. I can't do anything that involves 'grabbing' scalp hair at all. What length are you at in inches? I remember the 27" - 28" range being THE WORST for just, everything! I'm a 3.75" pony and with layers I could just start to do buns at 29" but they were too painful. After 30" I could manage some without scalp hair anchoring it. Now at 32" with a blunt hemline I can't do much, nap buns are a no-go.

Top of the head pony with https://www.target.com/p/invisibobble-original-crystal-clear-hair-elastic/-/A-75558383?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&CPNG=PLA_Beauty%2BPersonal+Care%2BShopping_Local&adgroup=SC_Health%2BBeauty&LID=700000001170770pgs&network=g&device=c&location=9016918&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1247077&ds_rl=1246978&gclid=CjwKCAiAyeTxBRBvEiwAuM8dnd95UnZmF5HPuTsMIccW v6CBAlZEmMvccfT0OpVT9ayegTwe6LYQ9hoCMtoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds (off brand ones die quickly ;)) I wrap the ponytail like a loose bee-butt but with the undercoils hidden and pin through the invisabobble, not the scalp hair, with a quattro starlite https://www.etsy.com/listing/103258030/hair-forks-by-quattro-starlites-combo. They are stupidly expensive but hold like nothing else. This is the bun I have worn for the past 2 years.

With your thickness you are probably going to have to divide and conquer with multi buns for a while. I'm sorry your hair is causing you so much anxiety :(


eta: I was talking about single buns, with double buns I can do nape buns just fine.

Double buns aren't working they are still just popping out.

You know, maybe I could do a gibson roll/tuck/whatever it's called? It looks like the advantage to that would be that the layers would be rolled up in the longest part.

The only problem is that I have never seen a gibson tutorial that doesn't use hair ties. Maybe if I look on the monthly hairstyle area...

*Edit - Never mind the Gibson hurts lol it's always something.

[HaMalka]

I'm not much help with the layers issue as I had a blunt hemline until it started fairy tailing from lack of trims but I might be able to help with a bun doing timeline. When my hair was around your length my primary concern was keeping tangles from hurting when I brushed my hair so I did English braids most of the time. It was pre LHC for me and the only bun I could do was some sort of cinnamon bun (I think, it was a while ago) held with ponytail holders. I started doing stick buns somewhere a bit above classic length. The first stick buns I did were some sort of cinnamon bun. I then acquired u-pins and learned to do a cinnamon bun with them. Then I finally learned the LWB which has been my go to since. However since my ponytail holder buns most of my buns are braided buns so It might be a bit earlier if you don't eat up length in a braid.

Also a Gibson Tuck style might work without a ponytail if you do a bit of braiding instead. I think you need something holding the hair together at the nape. I didn't know of the existence of the hairstyle until my hair was too long to fit in one.

[jane_marie]

I'm not much help with the layers issue as I had a blunt hemline until it started fairy tailing from lack of trims but I might be able to help with a bun doing timeline. When my hair was around your length my primary concern was keeping tangles from hurting when I brushed my hair so I did English braids most of the time. It was pre LHC for me and the only bun I could do was some sort of cinnamon bun (I think, it was a while ago) held with ponytail holders. I started doing stick buns somewhere a bit above classic length. The first stick buns I did were some sort of cinnamon bun. I then acquired u-pins and learned to do a cinnamon bun with them. Then I finally learned the LWB which has been my go to since. However since my ponytail holder buns most of my buns are braided buns so It might be a bit earlier if you don't eat up length in a braid.

Also a Gibson Tuck style might work without a ponytail if you do a bit of braiding instead. I think you need something holding the hair together at the nape. I didn't know of the existence of the hairstyle until my hair was too long to fit in one.

Okay, so it sounds like I'll probably have to wait until my hair is Classic or longer to get it up with a stick. So, basically, I need to decide if I want to grow to classic length or not.

Thanks for the info! :)

[Ligeia Noire]

Hellooooooo here I am but I am not of much help because my hair has not been that length for ages, maybe twenty years ago and I, of course, did not know what sticks or forks were.
I do not remember exactly but most of the time, I would wear it in a ponytail and then use Upins to bun it, but mostly just half ups, like bun the bulk and leave a long tail, nothing neat and tucked like now, because it was too thick and I did not really care.
I would also do braids and ponies, but definitely a lot of half ups, twist the bulk and pin it down and let the rest stick out.
My hair, in my twenties, was probably at its thickest, 7 inches or more, now it has probably dwindled a bit, I think, but I have not measured in ages...
Regardless, I did have lots of splits all the time, that is why, I am still not floor, I used to have to trim 3/4 times a year but not because my length was not tucked in or neatly bunned but because my hairs are thin, wavy and fragile and that is the perfect situation for mats and splits to happen, yours seems coarser and it is straighter, I bet it does not mat like mine does, all the time, still today if I leave it down... so..
If you cannot put it up neatly, do not despair, the ends poking out are only normal, that will still protect it really well, it wont be rubbing and hanging.
I think that even long haired people with thinner bulks at shorter lengths have ends poking out or buns that they cannot make. You are not the only one, your hair is barely waist, it is only normal.
There is no magic way of keeping your hair perfectly away from damage, I still get damage from sleeping with my braid down, from combing, from shred. Oh well.
It is a journey of patience and you need to relax a bit.
Milady would be a great one to give some advice too, she has a very similar thickness type and she has been waist not long ago.
I do think more than wearing it down or ends poking out, bleach and dyes are the real culprits for split ends.
Regarding the Karina claw, it only comes in that colour, I personally like it a lot, but we cannot have it all, if it works that is what you should be focusing on.

[BerrySara]

You could also ask Milady. Her thickness is 5.5" (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=151642&page=2&p=3755528&viewfull=1#post3755528) according to a post today (so a bit thicker than yours?) and she can definitely do buns without having to reach Classic lol.

Sounds like a little patience and some more length is what you might have to hold out for.

[jane_marie]

Hellooooooo here I am but I am not of much help because my hair has not been that length for ages, maybe twenty years ago and I, of course, did not know what sticks or forks were.
I do not remember exactly but most of the time, I would wear it in a ponytail and then use Upins to bun it, but mostly just half ups, like bun the bulk and leave a long tail, nothing neat and tucked like now, because it was too thick and I did not really care.
I would also do braids and ponies, but definitely a lot of half ups, twist the bulk and pin it down and let the rest stick out.
My hair, in my twenties, was probably at its thickest, 7 inches or more, now it has probably dwindled a bit, I think, but I have not measured in ages...
Regardless, I did have lots of splits all the time, that is why, I am still not floor, I used to have to trim 3/4 times a year but not because my length was not tucked in or neatly bunned but because my hairs are thin, wavy and fragile and that is the perfect situation for mats and splits to happen, yours seems coarser and it is straighter, I bet it does not mat like mine does, all the time, still today if I leave it down... so..
If you cannot put it up neatly, do not despair, the ends poking out are only normal, that will still protect it really well, it wont be rubbing and hanging.
I think that even long haired people with thinner bulks at shorter lengths have ends poking out or buns that they cannot make. You are not the only one, your hair is barely waist, it is only normal.
There is no magic way of keeping your hair perfectly away from damage, I still get damage from sleeping with my braid down, from combing, from shred. Oh well.
It is a journey of patience and you need to relax a bit.
Milady would be a great one to give some advice too, she has a very similar thickness type and she has been waist not long ago.
I do think more than wearing it down or ends poking out, bleach and dyes are the real culprits for split ends.
Regarding the Karina claw, it only comes in that colour, I personally like it a lot, but we cannot have it all, if it works that is what you should be focusing on.

Thank you. I know it's mostly the bleach that's the problem. I really wanted red hair and my natural shade is a soft black. So, I bleached my virgin hair and put henna on top of it. It was stupid. The bleach caused damage and dried it out then the henna dried it out even more. My virgin hair got splits of course but largely it was very resistant. Like I said, it was dumb.

I think what really has me frustrated with this entire thing is that before I cut that 2" off I could do some buns. I guess I should have left the splits until it grew a bit more? Then again if I had I'm pretty sure they would have continued to climb. I was finding triple and quad splits regularly. I think my plan from here on out might be to stop trying to grow out my layers and keep the tapper. I think having a thinner tapper might be why I could do some things.

The other thing that frustrates me is that there are people at APL who can put their hair up. My hair is much longer... not long really. It's normal but mine is longer normal. I think there might be a bit of a cognitive disconnect there: Oh that's a cute bun on user X... her/his info says she/he is at apl. I should be able to do that... oh I guess not.

I definitely need to relax... this isn't just a hair issue. Unfortunately anxiety is a core part of my being. There are plenty of reasons for that but they aren't relivant so I won't expand on it. I will say that it has become much better than it used to be.

Regarding the Karina Clip: Maybe I can paint it or something.

[Ligeia Noire]

Oh bleach, damn, that says it all, yup, no tips on that, I have never used any dyes on my hair but that is definitely going to be a pain, the more you baby it, the better.
And yes, you can paint the claw clips.
Look at this awesome tutorial from JJJ, she has tons of them and take a look at the claws she uses, they are pretty large and you might like them better.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuEDmaXx0YM

[jane_marie]

Oh bleach, damn, that says it all, yup, no tips on that, I have never used any dyes on my hair but that is definitely going to be a pain, the more you baby it, the better.
And yes, you can paint the claw clips.
Look at this awesome tutorial from JJJ, she has tons of them and take a look at the claws she uses, they are pretty large and you might like them better.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuEDmaXx0YM

Oh That's awesome! I have some holographic silver polish that I bet would look awesome fantastic.

Okay. Thank you so so much now I'm super excited about that karina clip coming. I really like the shape of them the only thing I didn't care for was brown.

[Ligeia Noire]

There ya go lady, now relax and have fun!

[elise.autumn]

I do hope you see how special you are, being referred to the likes of Ligeia and Milady for your thick hair

[CopperButterfly]

I'm sorry your thick hair is so frustrating. It's funny on another thread, one of those who can do buns at APL was just lamenting the thinness of her hair and tiny buns. The grass is always greener.

I think for you finding the right tools to hold up your hair will make all the difference. I know not all hair toys are created equal and some hold much better than others. I also recommend the starlites if you haven't tried those yet, they hold amazingly well. Another thing to try, I've never liked the way large claw clips pull (though I've only tried grocery store types) but several smaller ones going around the bun holds really well and distributes weight really well. It's what I did before sticks or forks could hold.

Oh and I think you're right to keep your taper, milady has some taper at well, and she's growing out henna and dye too. You two have a lot in common. :)

[jane_marie]

I do hope you see how special you are, being referred to the likes of Ligeia and Milady for your thick hair

THat's super sweet elise. Though, I have to admit that for now it seems more frustrating than special.

------------------

I wanted to thank everyone that helped me through this mini breakdown yesterday. I was pretty close to chopping it out of frustration.

I reread the thread this morning and managed to get my hair into a tucked french braid. It took a couple tries but it looks okay and most importantly most of my tips are protected.

I think I'll have to make this my go to until my clip arrives.

Thanks again. :flower:

[jane_marie]

I'm sorry your thick hair is so frustrating. It's funny on another thread, one of those who can do buns at APL was just lamenting the thinness of her hair and tiny buns. The grass is always greener.

I think for you finding the right tools to hold up your hair will make all the difference. I know not all hair toys are created equal and some hold much better than others. I also recommend the starlites if you haven't tried those yet, they hold amazingly well. Another thing to try, I've never liked the way large claw clips pull (though I've only tried grocery store types) but several smaller ones going around the bun holds really well and distributes weight really well. It's what I did before sticks or forks could hold.

Oh and I think you're right to keep your taper, milady has some taper at well, and she's growing out henna and dye too. You two have a lot in common. :)

Yes, I think we are all looking for that happy medium. I suppose I should be thankful but it's a bit difficult when you are a big ball of anxiety. lol

I'll look into the starlites and try my luck with multiple smaller clips. Before the cut I was managing cinnabuns with three claw clips. When I tried to get them in after all three broke a single tine. I'm not sure why that would be. Maybe because I have to compact it more?

I think if it were not winter this would be easier. I would just throw on a silk shirt and do a half up everyday. It's not spring though, maybe it will warm up soon. Winter is driving me crazy this year.

I will say that this morning I am feeling extremely lucky that my hair grows fast. In a couple of months I should be to where I had been and by this time next year It should be to BCL. Hopefully, that will make life easier despite my concern that my virgin growth will likely be thicker than the bleached growth I am working with now.

Thank you so much for your help. :flower:

[lapushka]

Do you think it's even worth trying to grow the layers out?

I would gain length first, then see when you can do a bun, then see about the layers, because with the layers you might be able to bun at TBL, when without them it might even have to be a longer length. :flower: I'm unsure. I only know my thickness, and I could put it up layered at hip (comfortably).

[classielassie]

Ok, I didn't see it mentioned in the previous replies: a French braid instead of Dutch will help somewhat with the layers sticking out of the braids.
French twists, tails out/rooster tails/peacock twists will all help as well. A bun (or 2) over a bun form (look up sock buns) laid over the form like Cousin It and then wrapped the ends (splitting in 2 or 4 sections of wraps around the base) will also help with the ends.
Finally, doing a half up bun, then splitting the remaining hair into 2 and wrapping those one at a time around the base will also help with short/thick hair being a pain to bun up problem.

Ok, one more - look into spin spins or bunheads/amish hair pins instead of bobbies. Much less stress on the hair and really the bunhead pins really help with putting up 3 sections into 1 bun.