Are "shoulder length", "neck length", etc. relative terms?

[The Maple Leaf]

How do you understand the term "shoulder length"? I understand it as hair that visibly falls on the shoulders, NOT hair that just barely skims the topmost point of them. In fact, in my mind, it can mean hair that covers the shoulders to a greater or lesser extent. Do you see it in such relative terms, or as a fixed length? Consider this chart, for example: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2573839529605132&set=gm.1065662653771195&type=3&theater&ifg=1

For me, the line denoting "shoulder length" is drawn somewhat too high up. At that level, it would seem to me to hardly touch the shoulders, if at all. Again, for me, shoulder length seems to actually be a margin covering a certain greater or lesser area of the shoulders, rather than one single length, whereas this chart seems to have picked the shortest possible length that could be conceived as shoulder length! I would consider the length shown in the chart to be closer to "collarbone length" or "shoulder-top length".

Similarly, the term "neck length" doesn't seem too helpful to me. I have always thought of "collar length" as a term for the length falling between chin and shoulder-top length. Is "neck length" supposed to mean the same as collar length or something else? In the picture above, it seems to me to be just a little longer than chin length. What exactly is "neck length" supposed to mean? It doesn't even make sense to call a length "neck length" to me, as the neck itself is not a point but a vertical column going from the nape all the way down to the collarbone. Why refer to a particular hair length in this way?

Am I the only one confused here or have others had the same issue with these descriptions? Are they really useful when telling a hairdresser how much hair they want off? I imagine that a client's using them at the salon without e.g. pointing to where exactly they want their hair to be cut could run the risk of the hairdresser cutting off more than the client wanted?

[jane_marie]

I used to work as a stylist and generally think of shoulder length as skimming the shoulder. However, a good stylists always double checks with the client beofre cutting. I'm not sure what "neck length" means.

Photos are best.

Your image isn't showing up.

[Kat]

To me, it counts as "{X} length" if the hair touches that spot. So to me, yes, I would count it as "shoulder length" if the hair touches the shoulders, even on the ends.

My collarbones are lower than my shoulders, so I wouldn't consider hair shorter than touching the shoulders to be collarbone-length. To me I suppose "collarbone length" would be what you consider shoulder-length, but I'd likely just call it "just past shoulder-length" as I don't really tend to define smaller milestones-- mine tend to be chin, shoulder, shoulderblade (if I use that one at all but it's getting popular), mid-back (or "bra strap" if you want), waist, hip, classic, mid-thigh, knee, mid-calf, ankle, floor, etc.

But yes, I do consider them "relative" as your shoulder and your waist and your knees are not where my shoulders and waist and knees are, so I'd not say "X number of inches is waist length" or whatever. I guess I never before considered them subjective and always assumed everyone considered each length to be defined mostly the same way, but now that you point it out, I guess they can be.

[Simsy]

They’re subjective in that they are body markers that aren’t necessarily the same length on everyone. They are also subjective in how exactly you translate them for yourself. Shoulder could be the top of the shoulder, it could be the collarbone, or it could be the equivalent of bsl down near the shoulder blades. It’s like describing your hair as “long”; for most people IRL that’s collarbone to BSL and anything further might as well be an alien for all they know. Whereas here, “long” is a much larger category.

When attempting to explain to someone else what length you want/are at, you are far better off indicating the length on yourself.

[Spikey]

Here at LHC, we "call" milestones when the first hairs touch that body part. At first, I didn't like it either, I think hair just barely touching BSL is still actually APL. But, for the purpose of calling milestones, when the hair first touches the body part/line is clearest so I get it. If we waited to call shoulder 'til the hair was actually on the shoulders, that would be even harder to decide because everyone would want a different amount of hair on the milestone. Waiting until the edges of hair hit the border is least subjective, defining when the bulk of the ends are truely shoulder would be chaos.

Personally, I believe nothing is useful for telling a hair dresser, ya gotta actually show them on your hair to be clear.

[Chromis]

There are no "official" designations.

- Mod

[Sarahlabyrinth]

It's generally up to the individual when they "call" a length, so you will always get a variation of ways. As for myself, I "call" a length when the first hairs reach it.

[0xalis]

Yep, it's all relative. I think of collarbone when I think of shoulder length hair, too.
I use chin+ to denote hair that is past chin but not quite mid-neck. I use mid-neck for hair that is right in the mid point of the neck.
Mid-neck+ for hair that is past the mid point of the neck but not quite shoulder.
I personally break things down into smaller milestones so I don't go crazy, especially considering my long neck.
In my signature I put mini milestones like any "neck length" in (parenthesis) to delete later once I've past them.

[lapushka]

It's generally up to the individual when they "call" a length, so you will always get a variation of ways. As for myself, I "call" a length when the first hairs reach it.

I do the same. I also look at each individual picture that's presented, and make up my mind if someone asks if they can "call it". Sometimes I even say if it's anywhere in the "region" of that marker, like say 1cm off or so. "Calling it" makes a bit of an allowance, IMO. You have to take into account that this person spent so many years growing and then... well, yeah... I'm a softie. :lol:

[jane_marie]

Yep, it's all relative. I think of collarbone when I think of shoulder length hair, too.
I use chin+ to denote hair that is past chin but not quite mid-neck. I use mid-neck for hair that is right in the mid point of the neck.
Mid-neck+ for hair that is past the mid point of the neck but not quite shoulder.
I personally break things down into smaller milestones so I don't go crazy, especially considering my long neck.
In my signature I put mini milestones like any "neck length" in (parenthesis) to delete later once I've past them.

Not trying to derail the thread or anything but I just looked at your signature. Out of curiosity did you mean to put mouth length by 2021? I think it could be shoulder by then. :)

[Dark40]

I believe it's all relative too. To me, collarbone length and shoulder length is the same thing. Now, neck length is also along that shoulder length category as well.

[0xalis]

Not trying to derail the thread or anything but I just looked at your signature. Out of curiosity did you mean to put mouth length by 2021? I think it could be shoulder by then. :)

Omg!! You're right!!! :rollin: Thank you so much for pointing that out, I went and fixed it :p

[Kat]

Here at LHC, we "call" milestones when the first hairs touch that body part. At first, I didn't like it either, I think hair just barely touching BSL is still actually APL. But, for the purpose of calling milestones, when the hair first touches the body part/line is clearest so I get it. If we waited to call shoulder 'til the hair was actually on the shoulders, that would be even harder to decide because everyone would want a different amount of hair on the milestone. Waiting until the edges of hair hit the border is least subjective, defining when the bulk of the ends are truely shoulder would be chaos.

Well, if I was measuring a string by holding it up to a ruler, I'd call the length wherever the end touched, right? I wouldn't say, "it'll be 10 inches when it goes past 10 inches." So, I would say "shoulder length" is when the ends touch the shoulders. The hair is literally of a length where it is down to the shoulders.

[lapushka]

Omg!! You're right!!! :rollin: Thank you so much for pointing that out, I went and fixed it :p

I am eager to see your progress, because it looks like you're dead serious about it, and well, I remember one time I had a haircut that went somewhat wrong (BSL that went ear length, long story) and so I feel you on the growing process! :D

[xoxogossipgreen]

I'm glad someone else asked this because ive been thinking the same thing! I'm shoulder length at the moment but have been uming and ahing because its only just touching, and i feel like in real life i see a lot of people say shoulder length is down near collar bones. But shoulder length sounds so much nicer than 'lob' haha

[Stray_mind]

It is relative. Every body is different and so they get to decide when to call a milestone. For me shoulder length is when most of my ends solodly touch my shoulders, instead of just brushing them, same for APL and other milestones. It is harder for people with layers, since most of their hair won't be the same length.

[Simsy]

I'm glad someone else asked this because ive been thinking the same thing! I'm shoulder length at the moment but have been uming and ahing because its only just touching, and i feel like in real life i see a lot of people say shoulder length is down near collar bones. But shoulder length sounds so much nicer than 'lob' haha

I’m pretty sure that’s why we have Shoulder, Collarbone, Armpit, and Brastrap; sometimes you just need the satisfaction of hitting goals quickly to feel like the next goal is worth trying.