Time for Some Complaining

[Larke]

First, some background. My hair was badly chlorine damaged from decades of weekly swimming. I eventually stopped swimming and started using Malibu-C to repair the chlorine damage, which worked for all but the last 2-3 inches of my hair. After that, I had a big growth spurt and gradually slowed down to a standstill this summer. In the last two and a half months, I've had no growth AT ALL. I suspect that the reason for that is breakage at the ends, since I have very find hair and, as I've already mentioned, the ends are in bad shape.

Earlier this summer, I switched from using normal liquid shampoos to shampoo bars and vinegar rinses. Because of my hard water, I had some issues with that, but eventually everything settled down pretty well and for about a month or so, I was pretty happy. However, beginning with last month, my hair started reacting badly to the ACV rinses. It would be fine and happy, then after every rinse, it would get drier and drier and crunchier and crunchier, until I had to completely cut AVC out of my routine. By that point, my hair was distinctly not happy with me, so I wasn't brave enough to try getting the shampoo bar waxies out with other rinses, like citric acid/lemon juice, so I went back to natural liquid shampoos.

I read that ACV can strip the hair of protein, and indeed, that's what it felt like, so I did a protein treatment, which did not help matters. Since that hadn't worked and since my hair felt like it had no stretch or slip at all, I did an SMT moisture treatment. That improved things a LITTLE, just enough to be encouraging, but not enough to actually solve anything. I then did a few more SMTs, playing around with different ratios and with adding some oil to the treatments. There was some improvements, but again, not much and nothing dramatic. At that point, I tried a hair mask that was supposed to help damage, but I didn't pay enough attention to the ingredients, and there was protein in it, to which my hair reacted poorly again, so I clarified (just to make sure my problem wasn't due to build-up which might have accumulated after cutting out the ACV) and then repeated the SMT to try to add the moisture back in. When that didn't do much, I tried a hot oil treatment overnight. That was last night.

Today, I washed the oil out of my hair and my ends are even crunchier than before! :cry: Plus they're stupidly frizzy and every individual strand seems to have a new random texture of its own. I'm so friggin disappointed! I've been trying literally everything good and amazing I can think of, and every single treatment just makes things worse. At this point, I think I'm just putting my hair in a bun and forgetting about it for the next month or two, but that is not the solution I had been hoping for. >.<

Mostly I just had to vent, but if anyone has any helpful advice, that would be most welcome. Thanks. <3

[Servana]

I think putting it up and forgetting about it is for the best. You're doing way too much to your hair! All you need is a good shampoo and conditioner and maybe a leave in treatment. Just keep it simple. It will grow if you just leave it alone and don't constantly check to see whether it's growing.

If it's breaking off there's nothing you can do with any products, you need to cut off all the damaged hair. That is the only way you're going to get steady progress in the growth of your hair.

[MusicalSpoons]

Chopping off the worst few inches at the ends might be something to consider in the medium term. Hopefully with leaving it alone things might calm down in time, or at least it might give it time to 'settle' before trying anything new.

One thing comes to mind, depending on the mechanism of how ACV strips the protein from hair - might Olaplex help at all? It's not a protein treatment, nor a condition treatment, but repairs broken disulphide bonds within the hair shaft (from what I understand). Maybe worth looking into, at least.

[Wravyn]

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with Servana; I think maybe you're doing too much to it. Less is more, I've found.

I would try to stretch out your washes for a while, & add a leave-in or coconut oil after showers and before bed. If you don't want to cut you could micro-trim every few weeks until the ends feel better, but it sounds like a trim of some sort may be what you need.

[Wravyn]

might Olaplex help at all? It's not a protein treatment, nor a condition treatment, but repairs broken disulphide bonds within the hair shaft (from what I understand). Maybe worth looking into, at least.

I've heard good things about Olaplex... Is it something you can do at home or do you have to go to a salon?

[MusicalSpoons]

I've heard good things about Olaplex... Is it something you can do at home or do you have to go to a salon?

You can do it at home if you can get hold of the proper stuff, no.2 I believe. No.3 is kind of a diluted version of 2. The thread about Olaplex is pretty long but the last several pages are recent and I seem to recall reading about how to source genuine no.2 somewhere in there. [I considered maaaybe trying it on my virgin hair as the hair I had pre-LHC was not wonderfully cared for, but I can't justify the expense for something that entirely possibly might make no difference for me.]

[Wravyn]

You can do it at home if you can get hold of the proper stuff, no.2 I believe. No.3 is kind of a diluted version of 2. The thread about Olaplex is pretty long but the last several pages are recent and I seem to recall reading about how to source genuine no.2 somewhere in there. [I considered maaaybe trying it on my virgin hair as the hair I had pre-LHC was not wonderfully cared for, but I can't justify the expense for something that entirely possibly might make no difference for me.]

Oh cool, I didn't know there was a thread. I'll check it out. TY :)

[lapushka]

Have you ever clarified your hair, especially after the bars? :)

If so, that's great. But then I'm all out of suggestions.

I would also cut a few inches off (if it is really breaking off it's better to do so) and just put it up & forget about it for a couple months!

[Nox_Inber]

Oh no, I'm sorry to hear that things took a bad turn! :( I remember a month or two ago your routine was working well. Whenever my hair gets super upset I get the best results by leaving it alone and letting it calm down. I've learned that trying to compensate always turns out badly for me and I think that holds true for a lot of people.

I usually advise people to wait on cutting their hair but in your case I think you'd benefit from a small trim. Sometimes leaving the damage on is too detrimental and sets you back, especially if it's already breaking off. I got so many split ends from damaged hair breaking off and had to trim it anyways. I hope things turn around soon!

[The-Young-Maid]

Okay but how many times did you clarify in a row? It takes me at least 2 or 3 to get shampoo bar waxiness completely out of my hair. If you didn't clarify enough then added more treatments you might just have more buildup than before. I agree that less is more.

[spidermom]

Clarifying every once in awhile is so important, and as The-Young-Maid said, sometimes it takes more than once.

Years ago I was going through a bad time with my hair that nothing seemed to help. One day I was handling my python, made him mad, and he released this awful musky snake fluid on me - like a skunk! It got into my hair, and I had to wash my hair 4 times in a row to get the stench out of it. After that, my hair was as soft, silky, and shiny as it had ever been. That means one of the following things has to be true:
1) My hair had so much buildup that it took 4 washings to remove it all.
2) Snake musk is an amazing deep treatment for hair.

[Obsidian]

Was this a solid synthetic detergent bar or a lye soap? I've made soap for years and at one point I made and used shampoo bars.

I also had to use a vinegar rinse, most people do and its not just due to hard water. The high ph of lye soap will cause the cuticles to lift, lower ph substances like vinegar or lemon helps smooth the cuticles back down.

Problem with that is even if the cuticles are flattened back out, they are being irreparably damaged and eventually they will start breaking away leaving your hair crispy and brittle.

Some people can use shampoo bars with no issues but for many, they are very damaging.

My hair started breaking away in chunks, had to chop it all off into a very short pixie. The soap making forum I go to has other members who had the same experience. We as a whole, really try to discourage lye soap being used as hair wash, there is much safer options.

[Tinyponies]

Hey sorry to hear you’re struggling. Do you still wear your hair down a lot?

In addition to some of the great advice and suggestions already shared I just wanted to add that if I wore my fine hair down it would start getting dry and tangly at, the ends particularly, within hours. I wear it up in a bun 99% of the time and only down when drying or for a *very occasional* special evening occasion I’ll wear it down in an English braid for a few hours but even then I can feel the difference by bed time.

My hair thrives with being all lined up together in one lump with ends tucked in and preferably covered too. Treated this way it’s silky and happy. Maybe yours is the same?

ETA: my hair is virgin waist with around 6 inches of serious mech damage (splits and white dots and fragile weather stressed sun bleached etc) from pre LHC.

[Larke]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. <3 It's great to see some things I hadn't considered among the different options people are recommending.

Generally, I just want to clarify that this has been going on for over a month and a half, so I've done a little less to my hair than my OP made it sound. XD In terms of leftover chlorine damage, most of what it does is make my ends frizzier, drier, and duller, though what I am seeing now is unusually bad. But I don't have too many split ends or white dots. However, my hair isn't growing, so I don't know what else the issue could be if it's not breakage... I have clarified a few times and I did not notice a difference, but I think I will have to repeat some heavier clarifying again in a few weeks, once my hair calms down a little, maybe. I am also seriously considering a water filter for my shower head, because I have very hard water where I live, and that definitely makes all my problems worse. Eventually, I will trim, but I would like to get a little past waist before I do that, if possible. In the meantime, my hair shall live in a bun and I shall resign myself to unattractively flat hairstyles (which inevitably happen with my fine hair whenever I put it up). Maybe I'll buy some more hair toys to encourage myself to keep it up. :o

Opalex is an interesting option I'll have to look into more. Thanks for the suggestion!

[MusicalSpoons]

Sounds like you have a plan for going in the right direction :) I just want to point out that most shower filters only filter the water, not soften it despite what they may claim. The only one I've heard of that does soften is the Showerstick, from WaterSticks which is a US brand (I can't remember where you are, sorry). It might still be worth getting a shower filter as it neutralises chlorine/chloramine, whichever is in your water, which can be beneficial - my hair doesn't seem any different with our filter but my skin certainly appreciates it.

[ThistleTea]

I feel like I might come across as some kind of baking soda/vinegar wash zealot but I can't help myself. :D I think they help with a lot of issues, and I always found that buildup was one of them! I used to do them exclusively, then kind of strayed off that path and experimented with other things but when they went wrong I found that BS/V was always a good 'reset' for my hair.

[Chromis]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. <3 It's great to see some things I hadn't considered among the different options people are recommending.

Generally, I just want to clarify that this has been going on for over a month and a half, so I've done a little less to my hair than my OP made it sound. XD In terms of leftover chlorine damage, most of what it does is make my ends frizzier, drier, and duller, though what I am seeing now is unusually bad. But I don't have too many split ends or white dots. However, my hair isn't growing, so I don't know what else the issue could be if it's not breakage... I have clarified a few times and I did not notice a difference, but I think I will have to repeat some heavier clarifying again in a few weeks, once my hair calms down a little, maybe. I am also seriously considering a water filter for my shower head, because I have very hard water where I live, and that definitely makes all my problems worse. Eventually, I will trim, but I would like to get a little past waist before I do that, if possible. In the meantime, my hair shall live in a bun and I shall resign myself to unattractively flat hairstyles (which inevitably happen with my fine hair whenever I put it up). Maybe I'll buy some more hair toys to encourage myself to keep it up. :o

Opalex is an interesting option I'll have to look into more. Thanks for the suggestion!

I prefer to think of that "flat" hair as sleek :D

[ladyshep]

Awww, sorry to hear about your problem. Chlorine is so hard on the hair and it seems the only thing that works is to just cut the bad off from my experience with myself and in the salon. Healthier hair is better than longer damaged hair in my opinion, but if you can let it grow a little longer to a length you feel comfortable in order to cut, then by all means. But, could you try keratin in the meantime?

[lapushka]

I feel like I might come across as some kind of baking soda/vinegar wash zealot but I can't help myself. :D I think they help with a lot of issues, and I always found that buildup was one of them! I used to do them exclusively, then kind of strayed off that path and experimented with other things but when they went wrong I found that BS/V was always a good 'reset' for my hair.

Generally people here tend to stay away from baking soda, as it is very very alkaline. You'd need to measure it out carefully with the vinegar and then you still might be way off.

It is safer and easier to just use a cheapie sulfate shampoo (like Suave daily clarifying).

But YMMV, as always. :flower: If it works for you, by all means keep using it.

[01]

Okay Larke, I stopped reading halfway (sorry) and the reason is... Look, it's so complicated, you coul really just screw it and do water only and your hair would improve tons without use this, use that, then add protein back because previous thing ****ed up your hair, bla bla... Even just reading it makes me sick and I really, really feel for you. It's exactly what made me stop these crazy cosmetics/remedies combos. If WO won't work, try egg yolk washes. I tell you, even my nails grow and thicken from these. I myself will probably go back to egg yolk for that reason (maybe it'll control my hair loss a bit). It makes hair shiny, easier to comb, everything in one 'product' not ten. And for very dry hair oiling is the thing, but it might be harder to wash off with egg yolk, you might need more eggs or keep them on hair for longer (like hair mask). But for not oiled/gelled hair 5-10 mins wash time is enough, even if they're very greasy/sebumy.

You're welcome, I hate my hair too. Good luck.

PS: Shampoos are such a scam. You need, like ten products to use after them. It seems shampoo bars are no better.

[ThistleTea]

Generally people here tend to stay away from baking soda, as it is very very alkaline. You'd need to measure it out carefully with the vinegar and then you still might be way off.


Just wanted to clarify in case I wasn't being very clear: I'm not mixing the baking soda with the vinegar. They're separate rinses and the baking soda dilution is rinsed out completely before the vinegar rinse goes on.

[MusicalSpoons]

Generally people here tend to stay away from baking soda, as it is very very alkaline. You'd need to measure it out carefully with the vinegar and then you still might be way off.


Just wanted to clarify in case I wasn't being very clear: I'm not mixing the baking soda with the vinegar. They're separate rinses and the baking soda dilution is rinsed out completely before the vinegar rinse goes on.

:rollin: that gave me such a funny mental image - if you were mixing them you'd be rinsing your hair with salty water (sodium acetate solution in water https://www.thoughtco.com/equation-for-the-reaction-of-baking-soda-and-vinegar-604043)
Then I don't think it would be such a controversial method, as long as the salt were rinsed out thoroughly ;)