Keeping length or starting over?

[rytiff]

So lately my hair has been terribly unhappy. Throughout the last few years I’ve tried cone free, vinegar rinses, no ‘poo, going back to cones, shampoo bars, using a water filter, trying oils, sulphate shampoo and sulphate free shampoo, you name it and I’ve probably tried it. Either my scalp gets angry or my hair is dry and brittle or it’s completely heavily weighed down.
It’s almost to BSL....in maybe another month or two. But washing it I end up with huge nest of clumps of hair in the drain from breakage and/or shedding. Nothing medically is different or has changed in that department. But the thickness of my pony tail has gotten so thin that I feel so upset anytime I wash and see all that hair from the breakage/shedding in the drain. I am to the point that I can’t decide if I want to keep growing the length and ignore the continued thinness or do a chop and try to concentrate on getting it fuller then try to grow the length again.
I am just curious what you would do? (And if you have any suggestions that maybe I haven’t tried)

[Groovy Granny]

Hi :waving:

What are you using now for products....how do you style it on a daily basis.......and can you post pics of your hair (and what is shed after a shampoo)?

Don't cut yet :tmi: ;)

[rytiff]

This month I am using shampoo bar that I bought from a little country Amish store. It is the old fashioned homemade tallow soap with other natural oils. At first I was trying a diluted vinegar rinse afterwards (1 tablespoon to about 2 cups filtered water) but my hair hated the vinegar. It was dull, dry and tangly. So now I am using a coney conditioner which has helped it to feel a little easier to comb the tangles out. I always air dry. And I either do a simple cinnamon twist bun or a claw clip or braid to keep it out of the way during the day.

[rytiff]

I will try to get photos. I don’t have any yet.

[Groovy Granny]

This month I am using shampoo bar that I bought from a little country Amish store. It is the old fashioned homemade tallow soap with other natural oils. At first I was trying a diluted vinegar rinse afterwards (1 tablespoon to about 2 cups filtered water) but my hair hated the vinegar. It was dull, dry and tangly. So now I am using a coney conditioner which has helped it to feel a little easier to comb the tangles out. I always air dry. And I either do a simple cinnamon twist bun or a claw clip or braid to keep it out of the way during the day.


I will try to get photos. I don’t have any yet.

That's great ~ the more info we have the easier it will be to try and help you :)

Protective styles :thumbsup:

I don't have personal experiences with bars and rinses, but many are and I am sure they will weigh in...so hang in there and keep hope :cheer:

[Nox_Inber]

Has anything major happened in the last several months? Shedding from physical or emotional stress can cause sheds way after the fact. I'm sorry to hear you're having such a rough time with your hair right now though. If you're truly unhappy with how thin your hair is then sometimes cutting it can be the right answer but I'd wait until you're absolutely sure. You can also trim a small amount off to even things up a little, it doesn't have to be a "go big or go home" situation. My hair broke off and my whole length looks like someone took a razor to it, especially from about jawline down. My ends are way thinner than the rest of my hair, particularly in the front, and I spent over 6 months evening up my hemline but right now I'm letting it grow wild. However I highly doubt anyone else has ever noticed that my hair is broken off or thinner on the ends. We're the ones who spend the most time looking at it and noticing the flaws so to us it seems super obvious. It's a bit freeing in a way to just let it grow and not worry about the perfect thickness. I know it will take time for everything to catch up so I'm just enjoying the length I've gained. You've gotta do what makes you happy but I'd be sure about cutting it so that you don't end up with scissor regret :)

[ExpectoPatronum]

Speaking as someone who too often "starts over." Try to avoid cutting. While the short term happiness of having a chop is nice, it quickly goes away when I realize my hair isn't long. I recently cut back from MBL to APL and I regret it so much!

That said, you're free to do what you want but if you want to grow your hair long, it's best to not chop it.

If your hair is getting that thin and breaking off that much, there might very well be something going on medically. Have you had your vitamin levels checked?

[Begemot]

Two week rule! Don't do anything until you have thought about it for two whole weeks.

I would probably do a small trim, from the way you describe the situation, but it's more important to figure out what's bothering your scalp and then securing a good routine. It might be a good idea to visit a professional about your scalp and maybe get some blood work done. Hang in there!

[Kalamazoo]

I vote for keeping ALL of your current length, at least for now, because hair always fairy-tales as it grows. I mean, look at Xie Qiuping's 5.62 m (18 ft 5 in) of tresses. https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/2019/9/10-of-the-worlds-biggest-hair-records-589939

Her hair's beautiful. You notice how thin her ends are? That's just the nature of the beast. The ends are thin. So, the ends you've got right now are thicker than hers, right? So, if you don't cut off your current ends, then you can grow longer, and your current ends will still be your ends, & they'll still be thicker than Mme. Xie's, so why cut them? They still count as length.

I understand wanting a thick hemline. I trimmed mine recently for that very reason. But I don't think you should trim until after you start seeing some thickness coming in, the result of your newfound knowledge of how to (and how not to!) care for your particular head of hair. Because if you trim right now, you'll have neither thickness nor length, and that can be discouraging.

And once you do start trimming? Only do tiny little micro-trims. I mean, if your hair grows 6"/year & you cut off 6" :scissors: it's going to be a year 'til you get that length back again.

[Ylva]

When was that last time you clarified your hair with a good old sulfate shampoo?

[rytiff]

Wow! Xie Qiuping's hair is inspiring because that is a very long length and there is a noticeable tapering to her fairy ends. And it seems perfectly normal.

I think maybe my shedding/breaking could be stress? I didn’t realize that stress in my life about other things could have such an impact on my hair and I am sure stressing about my hair is not helping. It seems like it is a vicious circle.

I used to have long hair probably about MBL as a kid growing up (many many many years ago...) I have no idea what products were used but in photos my hair seemed healthy. I can remember my Great Grandmother brushing her mid-thigh length hair and putting it in a tiny little bun because at her age it had gotten so thin. But every morning she would wake up and do her routine of brushing and bunning.

I think you all are right. I am upset about the breaking/shedding but if I cut it then I still would be upset about the breaking/shedding but then I’d be upset with the shorter hair on top of that. So I will keep away from the scissors for now.

But I still welcome any other ideas of something that I haven’t tried to help make my unhappy hair/scalp less cranky.

Photos will be posted soon.

[rytiff]

When was that last time you clarified your hair with a good old sulfate shampoo?


I used the Suave Daily Clarifying shampoo this past weekend. Is there another clarifier that may work better?

[Kalamazoo]

I've been told that my shampoo, Earthly Delight by Lāfe's, is not officially a clarifying shampoo, since it doesn't contain any sulfates; but that it serves that purpose for me, since it does get my hair squeaky-clean.

https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=150545

Perhaps trying something milder than what you've been doing would work?

ETA: But don't try it too soon. Give your hair a chance to rest between shampoos.

Oh yeah. And they say catnip tea for split ends. Just raid your kitty-cat's stash, :kitten: brew some tea, let it cool, and apply to your ends ... or wherever the breakage is happening. (If it broke there, it's an end now, right?)

ETA: And drinking catnip tea is delicious, calms one's nerves, & helps the hair to grow (I think...) Meow?

[Ylva]

I used the Suave Daily Clarifying shampoo this past weekend. Is there another clarifier that may work better?

Is that one also a chelating shampoo? We don't have Suave products over here. Does it contain any EDTA?

It should work great for clarifying, but in case you have mineral buildup in your hair, you'd need to chelate as well.

[spidermom]

Do you know if the water is hard (full of minerals) where you live?

[xoAshley]

Do you know if the water is hard (full of minerals) where you live?

I came here to ask the same thing. I moved to an area with hard water last year, and it has caused total havoc with my hair... breakage from midshaft down to the ends. I was using a natural shampoo & condish too and never clarified either, which I think made the problem get as bad as it did, but the problem was I never noticed until it was too late and it started breaking, and the damage was already done at that point.

I have since gone back to coney / sulfate shampoos & condish, and also just got a water softener installed last weekend. My hair FEELS sooo much better, obviously I still have breakage because the damage is already done, but I'm hoping it'll prevent further damage and in the future the breakage will stop.

[lapushka]

Have you been to the doctor? If your circumference thins out 1/3 or even half, it's panic time and time to see a physician. To first of all get some bloodwork done.

Or, have you done that?

You might be deficient in something or have a medical issue going on (don't want to alarm you). But when your hair falls out that much it's not normal and you can't contain that with products or with anything we say you need to do.

[spidermom]

We recently moved from a soft water area to a hard water area, and I've had to change how I care for my hair. I use a clarifying shampoo more often, about every 2 weeks. If I don't, my hair gradually gets dull and kind of rough and sticky feeling. After every wash/rinse, I use 1 tbsp of white vinegar in 12 ounces of water and lower my length into the cup by bending forward. I let it soak for at least 1 minute, then I pour the rest of the vinegar solution over my scalp and massage with fingertips. Rinse. Apply conditioner or deep treatment for as long as the directions say (5 minutes for what I have now), and rinse. I use a deep treatment about every other wash, which is more often than when we had soft water but it's making a difference in how my hair feels and behaves.

If your hair doesn't respond well to vinegar, try a different kind and/or citric acid and/or diluted lemon juice. Some people use the acidic solution as the final rinse, so if you haven't tried that, give it a go.

I have no personal experience with shampoo bars because I hate how a bar of soap feels (slimy ... ewwww!), but I've seen around LHC that they're tricky to use with hard water. In semi-scientific terms: the ionic charge in soap products reacts with the ionic charge in hard water and causes a film to form on your hair (even your skin). An acidic product like vinegar helps to clear away that film, but it's not a solution in and of itself by any means. You'll have to use a clarifying shampoo on a regular basis as well, maybe even a chelating shampoo, to be sure you keep that film from forming and building upon itself.

[Wendyclaire]

I don’t use many products preferring natural skin and hair (except for a little color to get rid of some gray). I’m pretty much the minority here but I think the more product you use, the more likely your hair will have a negative reaction. I use shampoo twice a week and run a conditioner (Pantene or similar) through it about every couple of months. I also use jojoba oil and never have to clarify (whatever that is).
The beauty of skin and hair comes from the inside out so start taking a good multivitamin with a hair,skin, nails vitamin with collagen and you’ll see a big difference.

[rytiff]

Yes, our water is very hard where we live. I get very dry skin in the winter probably from the water itself more than the colder temperatures outside.
We have a small filter on the shower head to try and remove some of the minerals and chlorine but it probably isn’t enough.
Sometimes I can’t even get a wide tooth comb through my hair because it is so dry at times even with lots of coney conditioner.

[Obsidian]

You really need a good chelating shampoo, the daily clarifying won't remove mineral build up.

Mineral build up will make your hair brittle and rough. I really like joico k pak clarifying shampoo, it also chelates.

Lather it up really well and let it sit 10 minutes to break up the minerals, then rinse and condition like normal.

I would stop with the shampoo bar. If its a lye based soap then using it with hard water will make excessive soap scum which also will build up on your hair.

[Wendyclaire]

It all depends on your own individual hair and your genetics. I don’t think there is any scientific basis for mineral build up I’ve certainly never heard of it. Keep in mind that the more products you use the more problems you may have. Love your hair in it’s natural state. I spent years trying to straighten my naturally curly hair and now I love my curls!

[Laurelin]

Allot of people treat their hair as a separate part of their body instead of a part of the whole. Having a healthy body helps your hair too. Vitamins, stress, blood circulation, nutrients, diet, day-night rhythm, hormones, medication can all play a part in unnecessary shedding besides haircare and skinproblems. I sometimes just take a break from ''the hair'' (benign neglection) so I don't hyperfocus on it and rather focus on my overall well-being, making sure I'm healthy, happy and stress-free, knowing my hair will grow regardless on if I focus on it or not. :o

[MusicalSpoons]

It all depends on your own individual hair and your genetics. I don’t think there is any scientific basis for mineral build up I’ve certainly never heard of it. Keep in mind that the more products you use the more problems you may have. Love your hair in it’s natural state. I spent years trying to straighten my naturally curly hair and now I love my curls!

Science-y Hair Blog explains it:

How does hard water interact with hair?
The short story is that hard water ions have a positive charge - they are cations. Elsewhere in this blog, I refer to conditioners that bond to the hair as "cationic" because they, too have a positive charge. Hair tends to have a negative charge along cuticle edges and in damaged areas. Because positive and negative charges attract - those mineral cations from hard water can bind to your hair!
https://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2016/03/hard-water-and-your-hair.html
Edit: but as you say, it does vary individually - the science is sound and *is* what happens to cause mineral build-up, but not all of us have problems with it. I haven't despite very hard water, although I suspect if I had soft water I would need a less conditioning wash routine.

rytiff those shower filters don't soften water, and if you have good quality tap water the only effect it really has is to neutralise the chlorine (or chloramine, whichever's in your water). We have very hard water and my skin does appreciate a shower filter but only for that, no softening.

I don't really have any advice to add right now. Some of us need a lot of product (relatively) to keep our hair happy, others can have minimal routines and their hair does best with that - there's no universal right or wrong. [Even shampoo bars *can* work well for some people with very hard water, somehow, although those do seem to be in the minority.]

If your skin is dried out then probably your hair is too, in which case it likely needs more moisture - maybe have a look into SMT (Snowymoon's Moisture treatment, a mixture of conditioner + honey or aloe + conditioner, left to sit for however long you want) and/or double conditioning and/or oil rinses (rinse-out oil). Making sure you're well hydrated is great, it will do good for your skin and the hair that is soon to grow but it will have no effect on the hair that's already grown.

[Haziel]

I've used Suave brand before, it's not the best option especially if you have extra minerals in your water. I personally suggest you use Aussie brand shampoo and conditioner (avocado smelled nice). Wash your scalp then squish it down the ends. Then conditioner lots of it (don't feel shy remember you are mending your ends) and leave it in for a while, make sure you get each hair good and coated. Then hop out squish dry your hair and put in a repair cream (I like to use Cantu shea butter repair cream leave in conditioner) I didn't need to use the repair EVERY time I washed my hair. This stopped my hair falling out and saved my ends. After my hair started looking better I did a little trim to my ends. The next important step is SLEEP. This might be hard for you (toddlers, work, new puppy, school) but don't make it worse (reading/playing on your phone watching movies) Next take note of the stress, are you very stressed? What can you do about it? Not usually much but...
You might want to weather it out if its something that is temporary (like a move) or you might need to change things (regarding your hair). Remember there is One who will help us carry ALL our cares.

[EdG]

Sometimes I can’t even get a wide tooth comb through my hair because it is so dry at times even with lots of coney conditioner. Check for lint. Hair that is always tangled usually has lint holding the tangles together.

Lint on shed strands is most easily visible under a bright light.
Ed

[Nox_Inber]

Yes, our water is very hard where we live. I get very dry skin in the winter probably from the water itself more than the colder temperatures outside.
We have a small filter on the shower head to try and remove some of the minerals and chlorine but it probably isn’t enough.
Sometimes I can’t even get a wide tooth comb through my hair because it is so dry at times even with lots of coney conditioner.

That could do it. Obsidian gave some very spot on advice for chelating and the shampoo bar :) Some people make the bars work in hard water with an acidic rinse but it's hit or miss. I had to give up on it because I couldn't get consistent results. Your best bet is to try and get your hair back to normal sooner rather than later, so a good chelating and lots of moisture is in order :D

[rytiff]

Thanks everyone for all your responses!!!! You’ve given me a direction that I can work towards now and I don’t feel as lost. I hope any damage I have will mend or I can at least slow down the progression of any further damage. I will start looking for a chelating shampoo then a deep moisture treatment and see what happens. I know I can always come here for support and lots of wisdom.

[spidermom]

Thanks everyone for all your responses!!!! You’ve given me a direction that I can work towards now and I don’t feel as lost. I hope any damage I have will mend or I can at least slow down the progression of any further damage. I will start looking for a chelating shampoo then a deep moisture treatment and see what happens. I know I can always come here for support and lots of wisdom.

Sounds like a good plan.

[Groovy Granny]

Thanks everyone for all your responses!!!! You’ve given me a direction that I can work towards now and I don’t feel as lost. I hope any damage I have will mend or I can at least slow down the progression of any further damage. I will start looking for a chelating shampoo then a deep moisture treatment and see what happens. I know I can always come here for support and lots of wisdom.

Happy to hear we could help, and that you are more hopeful and have a sound plan going forward...while keeping your length:cheer:

Joico (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001E6EME4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) clarifies and chelates, and Joico K-PAK Intense Hydrator (https://www.amazon.com/Joico-K-Pak-Intense-Hydrator-Treatment/dp/B000O2PDKQ/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=K-PAK+conditioner&qid=1568384265&sr=8-7) is a great conditioner to follow the shampoo.

They are available at Walmart, CVS etc

[BerrySara]

rytiff those shower filters don't soften water, and if you have good quality tap water the only effect it really has is to neutralise the chlorine (or chloramine, whichever's in your water). We have very hard water and my skin does appreciate a shower filter but only for that, no softening.

Very true about those shower filters not softening the water. I have been searching for ways to soften the shower water (Where I live we have very hard water) without having to buy a full water softening system for full house.

I came across this Shower Stick from https://watersticks.com/showerstick/ which IS a water softener and you can choose to add a KDF filter for chlorine as well.

A lot of cities commonly use both chlorine and chloramine chemicals ("Chloramine is formed by mixing chlorine and ammonia. Both chlorine and chloramine are approved disinfectants for use in drinking water by the United States Environmental Protection Agency and the California Department of Health") to treat municipal drinking water. And chlorine is drying to skin and hair, so its still useful to have the shower filter. It just wont remove the minerals or address the build up.

I do wonder if anyone has tried the Shower Stick... I am curious. Its expensive so I just would love to know if its worth it.