Hair breakage help please

[NyanNinjaGirl]

Hello all. My hair is about tailbone length and I pretty much always wear it up in a bun, twisted like one giant Bantu knot on top of my head. I occasionally sleep with it up like this, but usually I unroll the bun but leave the hair twisted like a rope. I often hit things or get caught in trees by the bun and hear and feel hairs snapping, ripping, and breaking. Over the past few days I have really noticed just how much hair is falling out of the bun. I feel like this is probably due to me keeping it twisted up so much.
I’m looking for advice on how to prevent breaking, and styles that keep all my hair up without damaging it. Also is it good or bad to sleep with your hair up? I’ve heard both opinions.

[Dark40]

If I were you I wouldn't wear my hair twisted up all of the time. That is the culprit of the breakage. I've been also hearing different opinions on how you should wear your hair to prevent breakage but I've learned that wearing your hair up in the same place and same style all of the time can cause hair breakage or hair fall. So, try and wear your hair loose sometimes. I would really hate to hear you coming back on here saying that you had to go through the "big chop" of your tailbone length hair.

[Kalamazoo]

Hi NyanNinjaGirl! Welcome to LHC! :waving:

Everybody's hair is different, so you have to be the lead research scientist finding out what works for you, personally.

That said, is there a possibility that you're putting your hair up too tight? Or maybe, it isn't too tight at first, but I understand that Bantu Knots require putting the hair up while it's wet to let it dry that way. Apparently, as the hair dries, it shrinks, tightening. I watched a Torrin Paige video on YouTube in which she tried to do Bantu Knots. For her, it resulted in such an awful tangle that she had to cut out a significant piece of her hair. I think that that hairstyle may be totally The Bomb for people with African type hair that isn't too long; but Torrin Paige's hair type is European, & so is mine, so I'm just not going to attempt that particular hairdo. There are gobs of styles of buns that are looser.

ETA: That video is "Good Hair Gone Bad" by torrinpaige.

ETA: That bit about "not too long". I think Torrin's hair was longer than Classic when she made that video. It seems to me that, the longer the hair is, the tighter it's going to get while it dries in that Bantu Knot style. Shorter hair won't be wrapped around so many times, so I would expect shorter hair to not tighten up so much. Torrin did us a BIG favor by leaving that video up, of one of her failures, because it's just good to know that even though somebody's really fantastically skilled at hair stuff, there are just some things that shouldn't be done with certain heads of hair.

If your hair's getting caught on trees and such, maybe you need a shorter hairstyle. ("Shorter" as in not sticking up so far above the top of your head. You don't need to cut your hair any shorter!) Maybe Milkmaid Braids, or a Nautilus, or, well, there's the LHC Hairstyle Thesaurus at https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=145554

I like to go to YouTube & search for tutorials on how to do each hairstyle that interests me.

[lapushka]

Welcome to the forum! :)

I agree with Kalamazoo about twisting it too tightly. How tight are you making that bun?

Also about the shedding. How often do you wash your hair? It is always up, so the sheds can't "come out", and so they're all contained in there, it is only normal that you get a serious amount of shedding. We tend to lose 100 hairs a day, so if you say weekly wash and it's always up, that adds up!

[cjk]

Over the past few days I have really noticed just how much hair is falling out of the bun. I feel like this is probably due to me keeping it twisted up so much.

Let's start with the basics. Is your hair dry? Is it just the ends that are breaking off? Are you going through a shed? How much hair is falling out of the bun, anyway?

A daily loss of 50-150 hairs a day is fairly common. If your hair is always contained, let's say for a week, just do the math. When you take down your hair you could lose hundreds of hairs, seemingly "all at once."


I’m looking for advice on how to prevent breaking, and styles that keep all my hair up without damaging it. Also is it good or bad to sleep with your hair up? I’ve heard both opinions.

My beard was quite literally losing the last inch as each hair snapped off. It was dry. Not normal dry, but actually dry enough to be brittle. Thought I was at terminal length and, if nothing changed, I WAS!

About a month ago I started curly girl for my beard, yes my beard, and its health has changed notably. The buildup was tougher to remove than anything I've read about, it took me 2 weeks of daily stripping washes to begin to get product to penetrate. But, finally, it did. Moisture started getting in.

A few more weeks, and the hairs themselves are much softer and healthier. I noticed, last week, my breakage had basically stopped.

I'm wondering if something like this could be going on. The tips, after all, are the oldest parts of the hair. And at tailbone length, they're really old...environmental damage, oxidation, product buildup and so forth.

Have you tried a "final wash" with a clarifying shampoo, and heavy conditioning? If you read around the forum, you'll notice the tips sometimes require special treatment, to keep healthy.

[NyanNinjaGirl]

I usually only put it up dry and leave it down to air dry. And yes it is the ends I believe that are breaking. I don’t mean falling out of my head, I mean stray/fly away/short bits that fall out of the bun. It looks like I have a lions mane around my face, and then the rest of the length is in the bun. Does that make sense?
Thanks for the recommendation about hair health. That certainly could be adding to the issue. I’ve been alternating between dandruff shampoo and conditioner and a tea tree oil shampoo and conditioner. I’ve been hearing about curly girl, I’ll have to check into it.

[NyanNinjaGirl]

That said, is there a possibility that you're putting your hair up too tight? Or maybe, it isn't too tight at first, but I understand that Bantu Knots require putting the hair up while it's wet to let it dry that way.

(Hopefully I’ve used quotation correctly)

I put it up dry, Bantu Knot is just what I could think of in similarity to how it looks. I’ve always done buns this way and it has gotten quite tall! I try to do it as loose as possible, unless I need to make sure it stays put for a while like when I am gardening. I never pull my hair too tightly though because it will give me a migraine fast.

The main problem I’m having is that there is a lot of hair that doesn’t fit into the style/ponytail/bun. Like the end broke off and are now too short to stay in the style. It feels like I’ve almost got unintentional bangs.

Also I love Torrin Paige! Seeing her do the nautilus bun was one of the things that inspired me to fulfill my long haired dreams.

[NyanNinjaGirl]

I agree with Kalamazoo about twisting it too tightly. How tight are you making that bun?

Also about the shedding. How often do you wash your hair? It is always up, so the sheds can't "come out", and so they're all contained in there, it is only normal that you get a serious amount of shedding. We tend to lose 100 hairs a day, so if you say weekly wash and it's always up, that adds up!

It’s never too tight, I try to keep it as loose as I can without it falling down.

Also I don’t mean falling out like shedding, I mean falling out of the style. I’ve always had two curls of hair on both corners of my forehead that stick out like wings, but pulling them back they just reach the base of my bun. There are a lot of these loose/fly away/short strands all around the edge of my hair, all around my head. I’m concerned that my bun is causing breakage that results in these stringy bits all around.

[Corvana]

(Hopefully I’ve used quotation correctly)

I put it up dry, Bantu Knot is just what I could think of in similarity to how it looks. I’ve always done buns this way and it has gotten quite tall! I try to do it as loose as possible, unless I need to make sure it stays put for a while like when I am gardening. I never pull my hair too tightly though because it will give me a migraine fast.

The main problem I’m having is that there is a lot of hair that doesn’t fit into the style/ponytail/bun. Like the end broke off and are now too short to stay in the style. It feels like I’ve almost got unintentional bangs.

Also I love Torrin Paige! Seeing her do the nautilus bun was one of the things that inspired me to fulfill my long haired dreams.

Are you using a hair tie for your bun? That could be causing breakage where it's rubbing against your hair in the same spot day in and day out, which could give the effect you're talking about with "the end broke off and are now too short to stay in the style. It feels like I’ve almost got unintentional bangs."

A scrunchie would be more gentle if you're going to continue that particular bun (sounds like what we call a "bee butt" bun), but for most the gentlest of all is still a hair stick or hair fork!

[NyanNinjaGirl]

If I were you I wouldn't wear my hair twisted up all of the time. That is the culprit of the breakage. I've been also hearing different opinions on how you should wear your hair to prevent breakage but I've learned that wearing your hair up in the same place and same style all of the time can cause hair breakage or hair fall. So, try and wear your hair loose sometimes. I would really hate to hear you coming back on here saying that you had to go through the "big chop" of your tailbone length hair.

My mom is already rooting for a chop. I have some inches at the end that are damaged from bleaching and dyeing. I’ve quit these now since I’m trying to grow to terminal, and I know it’ll have to be cut eventually, but I just can’t bear the thought of doing it until my virgin growth reaches tailbone at least.

I have been trying to move the placement of my bun around, since I had heard the same place could cause issues. It seems like I definitely need to find some new daily styles, hopefully with less twisting.

[Kalamazoo]

It’s never too tight, I try to keep it as loose as I can without it falling down.

Also I don’t mean falling out like shedding, I mean falling out of the style. I’ve always had two curls of hair on both corners of my forehead that stick out like wings, but pulling them back they just reach the base of my bun. There are a lot of these loose/fly away/short strands all around the edge of my hair, all around my head. I’m concerned that my bun is causing breakage that results in these stringy bits all around.

"Edge Control" to the rescue!

[NyanNinjaGirl]

Are you using a hair tie for your bun? That could be causing breakage where it's rubbing against your hair in the same spot day in and day out, which could give the effect you're talking about with "the end broke off and are now too short to stay in the style. It feels like I’ve almost got unintentional bangs."

A scrunchie would be more gentle if you're going to continue that particular bun (sounds like what we call a "bee butt" bun), but for most the gentlest of all is still a hair stick or hair fork!

I am using scruncies, I make my own and love them! I only use hair ties as a last resort. I had tried those phone coil type hair toes that are popular now but I have started only using those for ponytails. Right now my hair is too long to stay in the bun with any sort of tie (too tall and heavy), so I’ve been using one or two claw clips to secure it. I have worn my hair like this daily for years though, and it certainly could be from hair ties. Putting my hair in a different spot, and more stability to cause less rubbing should help with breakage, correct?

Yes! I think it is the bee butt bun! I had no idea it had a proper name, my family just calls it a band bun since I started wearing it to fit all of my hair under my marching band hat. I will have to look into trying to secure it with a hair fork. I have tried hair sticks in the past but I think I used them wrong. The style I managed with them then was loose, messy, and skin pulling tight all at the same time 🙈 Thank goodness there are YouTube tutorials!

[NyanNinjaGirl]

"Edge Control" to the rescue!
Thank you! I just couldn’t remember what they were called! Edges!

Since they are at the edge of the hair I guess I should have thought of that 😂 Oh well!

[Kalamazoo]

If you want to have super-long hair, you'll find that each particular hairstyle works for a certain range of hair length; but then, when you grow out of that range, either you have to modify the hairstyle to eat up your new length, or else go looking for new hairstyles. This is good, because then you can find something fresh and new to enjoy about whatever length your hair happens to be at the moment. :magic:

[AutobotsAttack]

What is it that you do that gets your hair caught in trees? I’m wondering why no one has asked this yet.

[NyanNinjaGirl]

What is it that you do that gets your hair caught in trees? I’m wondering why no one has asked this yet.

😂 lol! I am a little surprised too.

First off, I put my bun right on top of my head. (An old marching band habit, but also so I can lean back without laying on it) It’s either the bun itself that gets caught, or things get caught in the part of my hair that’s flat against my head.
I have Crepe Myrtle trees and a short little maple tree in my yard and they have low hanging branches. I’ll catch my bun on the branches, or they’ll get stuck in the flat part of the hair.
I also have to go digging into bushes and vines to catch my cats and wake up my poor deaf dog when she’s sleeping under them.
My chicken pen also has vines growing for shade over top, and when they die back and turn into sticks, I come out with a bun that looks more like a birds nest than a bun.
I’ve also gotten stuck in multiple car air freshener visor clips (from Bath and Body Works), paper clips, clothes hangers on the clothes line, the Christmas tree while plugging and attaching the tree skirt, jump ropes, a trophy (while carrying/picking it up, the statue part got stuck in the bun), the car headrest, and plenty more.

[Kalamazoo]

�� lol! I am a little surprised too.

First off, I put my bun right on top of my head. (An old marching band habit, but also so I can lean back without laying on it) It’s either the bun itself that gets caught, or things get caught in the part of my hair that’s flat against my head.
I have Crepe Myrtle trees and a short little maple tree in my yard and they have low hanging branches. I’ll catch my bun on the branches, or they’ll get stuck in the flat part of the hair.
I also have to go digging into bushes and vines to catch my cats and wake up my poor deaf dog when she’s sleeping under them.
My chicken pen also has vines growing for shade over top, and when they die back and turn into sticks, I come out with a bun that looks more like a birds nest than a bun.
I’ve also gotten stuck in multiple car air freshener visor clips (from Bath and Body Works), paper clips, clothes hangers on the clothes line, the Christmas tree while plugging and attaching the tree skirt, jump ropes, a trophy (while carrying/picking it up, the statue part got stuck in the bun), the car headrest, and plenty more.

Besides wearing a lower-altitude hairstyle, would it also be helpful to wear a hat or scarf?

[Servana]

Hmmmm maybe you should alternate between buns and braids? That way the elastic isn't always at the top of your hair.

[NyanNinjaGirl]

Hmmmm maybe you should alternate between buns and braids? That way the elastic isn't always at the top of your hair.

That’s a great idea. I need to learn how to braid my own hair. Any tips?

[NyanNinjaGirl]

Besides wearing a lower-altitude hairstyle, would it also be helpful to wear a hat or scarf?
:lol: Yes I am trying to keep my hair on a lower-altitude. I've got this calf portion of a pair of leggings I cut off I've been using as a hair tie. It works surprisingly well, I wrap it once, and then pull the extra material over, and it covers my whole bun.

[Kalamazoo]

That’s a great idea. I need to learn how to braid my own hair. Any tips?

:knit: Try braiding somebody else's hair first, before trying to do your own, because it's easier to see what you're doing. I had a long-haired doll that I learned to braid. & Check out YouTube for braiding tutorials. Start with the English Braid. I think it's the easiest. The Rope Braid's easy, but it involves twisting the hair, so maybe that isn't for you right now. Then work up to more complicated braids like French, or Dutch. (Neither of which I can do yet. It's amazing how many hairstyles can be done with just a simple English Braid or two!) YouTube will suggest other videos for other kinds of braids to try. (I personally will not be trying Cornrows, because I've tried braiding my fairytale ends before, & I think it led to my ends getting too curly, crispy, dried-out, & Velcro-y. I think your hair may be similar to mine. If so, then super-skinny braids aren't the way to go.)


:lol: Yes I am trying to keep my hair on a lower-altitude. I've got this calf portion of a pair of leggings I cut off I've been using as a hair tie. It works surprisingly well, I wrap it once, and then pull the extra material over, and it covers my whole bun.

Yahoo! :cheese:

[Nini]

The shorter hair could also be new growth mind.

And if you've got some old bleach damage it's quite normal for that to get to you at some point. Try clarifying your hair and then maybe an SMT or some kind of moisture treatment to pamper the ends.

[lapushka]

I usually only put it up dry and leave it down to air dry. And yes it is the ends I believe that are breaking. I don’t mean falling out of my head, I mean stray/fly away/short bits that fall out of the bun. It looks like I have a lions mane around my face, and then the rest of the length is in the bun. Does that make sense?
Thanks for the recommendation about hair health. That certainly could be adding to the issue. I’ve been alternating between dandruff shampoo and conditioner and a tea tree oil shampoo and conditioner. I’ve been hearing about curly girl, I’ll have to check into it.

Is this it? Because that's normal. We all have hairs on our head that are in different cycles, so it is normal to have hair of various lengths on your head, in fact making a lion's mane.
https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=131555

[Wendyclaire]

Are you sure it’s not just new growth coming in? I think I’ve noticed the on my hair as well and I never ever bun it.

[NyanNinjaGirl]

The shorter hair could also be new growth mind.

And if you've got some old bleach damage it's quite normal for that to get to you at some point. Try clarifying your hair and then maybe an SMT or some kind of moisture treatment to pamper the ends.
That's what I was hoping, is that it was new growth. I've been working to pamper the ends too! I used some coconut oil on them yesterday and I think it is already helping.