Japanese straightening

[Alex Lou]

Anyone do permanent straightening anymore? Had it done in the past? Any advice?

I have an appointment tomorrow, but I think I'm going to cancel and do more research on salons.

I do understand that it's extremely damaging. I'm not maintaining my hair long right now, and I figure I'll eventually end up with a pixie (next year or so).

My daughter was born in march and my hair is all falling out. Like massively, by the handful. Same thing happened after my last baby and I remember not being happy with my hair for a long time after that. I also have fond memories of being in and out of the water all summer with short hair about a decade ago. So I cut it to BSL thinking I could still bun it, which is my smoothing technique. Problem is, and I didn't remember because I had it long for so many years, I needed the weight to pull down all those wiry, wavy strands. I also got an objectively terrible cut that wasn't at all what I'd asked for at a fancy and expensive salon... I fixed the cut myself but I can tell that I won't be able to have a presentable style unless I iron it. I have a baby and a toddler, so I'm not going to be ironing my hair all the time. I've just been wearing it in a pony tail every day all day.

Anyway, I really want sleek short hair. Around shoulder length. Hair that I don't have to worry about. Wash and go hair. Swim in the ocean and pool hair.

[Zesty]

I have no experience with this treatment other than watching a YouTube video one time where someone raved about how awesome it was. If you're not concerned about damage and you're not planning on growing those particular ends to long lengths, then why not?

[ExpectoPatronum]

My mom used to get straightening treatments. I'm not sure why she stopped but I do know she liked how easy it was to manage her hair.

[BerrySara]

Um yes, I have 15 years of experience with Japanese hair straightening. That is the salon treatment I was using for relaxing my hair. My first couple of years of treatment was called Bio Ionic Hair Straightening which is a type of Japanese treatment. Each of those visits were $700 for one treatment and became way too much for me as a college student, I moved on to more generic Japanese hair straightening treatments from less fancy salons (~$300/treatment) but its was all the same steps and process.

When I first started doing the treatment, for me it was heavenly. I finally had straight hair that was straight out of the shower! I loved it and it seemed like that thing I had dreamed about in my teen years. But..its costly. And it quickly adds up with 4 treatments a year (or so depending on growth rate) as you have to redo the roots. Thats the one thing I really wish I had thought about, that once you do it you cant just stop. Because you will end up with part curly/wavy hair while trying to grow it out while the rest is dead straight. However, if you are planing to cut to a pixie then I suppose that takes care of that issue. I too had to cut my hair to a pixie and grow out from scratch when I finally decided to embrace my natural texture.

Another thing was also that I really started to hate sitting in that chair for 6 hours. The treatment is lengthy because its multiple step process and they have to straighten with a flat iron tiny sections of hair dead straight before they add the last step to your hair. For me (granted I have 3b/c hair) that part alone took a couple of hours typically. Hated that part. Also, over time I started to feel pretty crappy about dumping all these chemicals on my scalp. I started to hate the smell and the burning feeling on my scalp. I have no idea of the long term effects but I can imagine it hasn't been good for my health.

Another thing I want to bring up is I still would iron my hair after (~1 month after) I had the hair treatments because any new growth and my roots were frizzy while the rest of my hair was mostly straight. So that was doubling the damage. Keep that in mind if you are trying to avoid having to iron or blow dry your hair after every wash - the roots will need to be addressed. Also, I often would get breakage all over and my hair never grew past a certain length. More importantly I experienced a lot of breakage (after each treatments i would have short hairs sticking up everywhere that had broken off during or due to the treatment). Basically my hair had thinned out so much, it looked pretty bad on its own. So i started using clip in extensions to add more volume...which tucked and pulled at my roots, causing further thinning.

If you plan on just doing it for the summer and then cutting in into a pixie to then grow out your natural texture, then I don't imagine it being such a commitment.

For me though it has been a long road to recovery and regaining healthy hair that is filling out so I would really think through all the aspects of what you will have to put yourself through. The thinning of my otherwise full-ish hair was the worst part besides all the money I have spent over the 15 years as well as all the hours I had to sit in that chair, then chemicals dumped on my scalp etc etc. Also I got used to always seeing myself with straight hair. So to finally embrace my natural texture was a lot of work for me from a mental perspective.

Have you considered wearing your hair wavy without smoothing it with bunning? Personally, I now do think curly hair is easier (except wash day) as all I have to do now is refresh with some water if that until wash day. And because my hair doesnt get oily at the roots anymore, I now only wash my hair once a week.

I still have pictures of how my hair looked after it had thinned out and if you want I can attach some here for you to see if you are interested. It got really bad when I was trying to grow it out and it was curly at the roots but straight and stringy for rest. I have some pictures of that as well.

If you have any specific questions, let me know. I think its clear what I think of the treatment these days. Loved it at first but really disliked it once I saw the consequences of doing it over and over again.

[Alex Lou]

Um yes, I have 15 years of experience with Japanese hair straightening. That is the salon treatment I was using for relaxing my hair. My first couple of years of treatment was called Bio Ionic Hair Straightening which is a type of Japanese treatment. Each of those visits were $700 for one treatment and became way too much for me as a college student, I moved on to more generic Japanese hair straightening treatments from less fancy salons (~$300/treatment) but its was all the same steps and process.

When I first started doing the treatment, for me it was heavenly. I finally had straight hair that was straight out of the shower! I loved it and it seemed like that thing I had dreamed about in my teen years. But..its costly. And it quickly adds up with 4 treatments a year (or so depending on growth rate) as you have to redo the roots. Thats the one thing I really wish I had thought about, that once you do it you cant just stop. Because you will end up with part curly/wavy hair while trying to grow it out while the rest is dead straight. However, if you are planing to cut to a pixie then I suppose that takes care of that issue. I too had to cut my hair to a pixie and grow out from scratch when I finally decided to embrace my natural texture.

Another thing was also that I really started to hate sitting in that chair for 6 hours. The treatment is lengthy because its multiple step process and they have to straighten with a flat iron tiny sections of hair dead straight before they add the last step to your hair. For me (granted I have 3b/c hair) that part alone took a couple of hours typically. Hated that part. Also, over time I started to feel pretty crappy about dumping all these chemicals on my scalp. I started to hate the smell and the burning feeling on my scalp. I have no idea of the long term effects but I can imagine it hasn't been good for my health.

Another thing I want to bring up is I still would iron my hair after (~1 month after) I had the hair treatments because any new growth and my roots were frizzy while the rest of my hair was mostly straight. So that was doubling the damage. Keep that in mind if you are trying to avoid having to iron or blow dry your hair after every wash - the roots will need to be addressed. Also, I often would get breakage all over and my hair never grew past a certain length. More importantly I experienced a lot of breakage (after each treatments i would have short hairs sticking up everywhere that had broken off during or due to the treatment). Basically my hair had thinned out so much, it looked pretty bad on its own. So i started using clip in extensions to add more volume...which tucked and pulled at my roots, causing further thinning.

If you plan on just doing it for the summer and then cutting in into a pixie to then grow out your natural texture, then I don't imagine it being such a commitment.

For me though it has been a long road to recovery and regaining healthy hair that is filling out so I would really think through all the aspects of what you will have to put yourself through. The thinning of my otherwise full-ish hair was the worst part besides all the money I have spent over the 15 years as well as all the hours I had to sit in that chair, then chemicals dumped on my scalp etc etc. Also I got used to always seeing myself with straight hair. So to finally embrace my natural texture was a lot of work for me from a mental perspective.

Have you considered wearing your hair wavy without smoothing it with bunning? Personally, I now do think curly hair is easier (except wash day) as all I have to do now is refresh with some water if that until wash day. And because my hair doesnt get oily at the roots anymore, I now only wash my hair once a week.

I still have pictures of how my hair looked after it had thinned out and if you want I can attach some here for you to see if you are interested. It got really bad when I was trying to grow it out and it was curly at the roots but straight and stringy for rest. I have some pictures of that as well.

If you have any specific questions, let me know. I think its clear what I think of the treatment these days. Loved it at first but really disliked it once I saw the consequences of doing it over and over again.

Wow, thanks for all the good info.

I do worry about time spent in the chair, cost, and exposure to chemicals. I'm avoiding keratin treatments because of the fumes. It's impossible to avoid inhaling the fumes that contain formaldehyde (even the formaldehyde free formulas). I'm assuming that Japanese straightening does not have fumes? I am much more comfortable with chemicals on my skin, since skin is a fairly good barrier vs inhalation.

I called a couple of salons that offer the service (appear to be Vietnamese salons) and each said $150 for hair above the shoulder with increasing pricing the longer the hair. I'm more than a bit worried about having it done by someone who knows what they're doing. I don't think I'll need to do it very often if I decide to maintain since my hair is only wavy, and not even very wavy. I definitely don't want to be spending a lot on my hair over time. And yeah, I don't look forward to spending hours in a salon. I have so little kid-free time to spare...

I could also be totally underestimating the damage and how much I'll hate the feel of damaged hair. I'm sure that embracing my natural texture is the best advice, which I have been told over and over on these forums over the years. I've also been looking at short layered haircuts that I could get that would probably work with my texture. I just want to try out permanent straightening. I have this idea that it could be the best thing ever... which probably means it's not.

[Alex Lou]

And perming beach waves is a thing now, I guess. Which would be great. I'd rather have loose waves than straight hair. But while I'm willing to drive to LA, I'm not ready to spend $450 on my hair: https://www.striiike.com/menu-hair.html

[Dark40]

I've learned through my research over the years that Japanese Straightening can be awesome if you take good care of the hair properly. I get my type 2c/3a hair relaxed 2 or 3 times a year but it always comes out very nice and bone straight like I've gotten a Japanese Straightening service! I always let my mom apply the relaxer to my hair, and I do the rest of the hair washing and deep conditioning.

[Alex Lou]

And... I woke up to a good hair day. Imo, it looks like I used a curling iron on it to make light waves, but I didn't. I'm attributing it to the curl cream I applied after washing yesterday. Curling cream makes my hair straighter. :lol: I'll add photos later.

I don't know what I want to do. Maybe I won't like having pin straight hair if there's no volume wave? I made an appointment for 2 weeks from now for a haircut. Maybe a good haircut is all I need. I made it with a stylist my husband went to last time and got the best haircut I've ever seen on him. He keeps his hair at collarbone.

[Dark40]

May I ask why do you want a haircut? Just curious...

[lapushka]

Anyway, I really want sleek short hair. Around shoulder length. Hair that I don't have to worry about. Wash and go hair. Swim in the ocean and pool hair.

When it's 2a short is gonna be poofy, and not "easy" wash & go hair, just so you remember.

[Alex Lou]

May I ask why do you want a haircut? Just curious...

I got it cut because it's all falling out and I know from experience that I don't like it much long in it's postpartum state, plus I like the idea of short hair for swimming and other summer activities. Plus I have this romantic idea about growing my hair out with my baby daughter. But I got a bad cut at the salon, not what I asked for, uneven, and doesn't work with my texture. So I cut it myself after thinking it over. But I'm not a stylist and I think that with the right stylist I could get a cut that I like much better.

I've been taking things really slowly, starting with a cut to waist last summer. I'm not doing any rash decisions.

[Alex Lou]

When it's 2a short is gonna be poofy, and not "easy" wash & go hair, just so you remember.

Thanks. Yes, too late, lol. That's why I'm thinking of perming straight, or layers that make the poof look more presentable. The poof is exactly the problem.

[lapushka]

Maybe just microtrim? If the shedding is now an issue, it will not be say in half a year, and by that time you might regret going really short. If you don't like BSL, imagine how you will feel at pixie?

[Dark40]

I got it cut because it's all falling out and I know from experience that I don't like it much long in it's postpartum state, plus I like the idea of short hair for swimming and other summer activities. Plus I have this romantic idea about growing my hair out with my baby daughter. But I got a bad cut at the salon, not what I asked for, uneven, and doesn't work with my texture. So I cut it myself after thinking it over. But I'm not a stylist and I think that with the right stylist I could get a cut that I like much better.

I've been taking things really slowly, starting with a cut to waist last summer. I'm not doing any rash decisions.

Ok, I can understand that. Yeah, that's why I hate to go to hair stylists or salons these days. The only one I would go to is a beauty school that has smart knowledgeable students that can do hair really well. But yeah, if your hair was falling out it was best to get a hair cut.

[Dark40]

I agree with lapushka. It you don't like BSL..imagine how you will feel at pixie is right.

[milosmomma]

I think that you might be the best person to give you a hair cut you like. You already have some experience so you've gotten over the hardest step. I was very afraid when I first started. I would check out some different tutorials on YouTube, there are many different hemline and easy layered/compact cuts you can do on your own hair.
I agree with lapushka as well. I am a firm believer of you can always trim more but cant glue it back on. And hair takes a long time to grow, pixie back to bsl could be 3 or more years.
I also just got over a postpartum shed and I am glad I didnt chop. It did last some months and was very unsettling so I understand how you feel. I would save hairs and even count them(dont recommend it can cause more stress) to keep track and monitor until it finally slowed down just recently. My son is 18 months now, I shed heavily for close to a year of that time. My overall thickness is already traveling down again, I did have tufts sticking up for a while but they're starting to lay down now.
What if you change your sleep style to give you uniform beachy waves everyday? A cinnabun or rope braided cinnabun on top of my head gives pretty good results.

[BerrySara]

Wow, thanks for all the good info.

I do worry about time spent in the chair, cost, and exposure to chemicals. I'm avoiding keratin treatments because of the fumes. It's impossible to avoid inhaling the fumes that contain formaldehyde (even the formaldehyde free formulas). I'm assuming that Japanese straightening does not have fumes? I am much more comfortable with chemicals on my skin, since skin is a fairly good barrier vs inhalation.

I called a couple of salons that offer the service (appear to be Vietnamese salons) and each said $150 for hair above the shoulder with increasing pricing the longer the hair. I'm more than a bit worried about having it done by someone who knows what they're doing. I don't think I'll need to do it very often if I decide to maintain since my hair is only wavy, and not even very wavy. I definitely don't want to be spending a lot on my hair over time. And yeah, I don't look forward to spending hours in a salon. I have so little kid-free time to spare...

I could also be totally underestimating the damage and how much I'll hate the feel of damaged hair. I'm sure that embracing my natural texture is the best advice, which I have been told over and over on these forums over the years. I've also been looking at short layered haircuts that I could get that would probably work with my texture. I just want to try out permanent straightening. I have this idea that it could be the best thing ever... which probably means it's not.

If you are willing to drive to LA, I can provide you with the contact information for the stylist I used for past 8 years (after much trial and error, found her and stuck with her as she is really good and her prices are great). The salon is Korean so language barrier is definitely a thing there but the stylist is very sweet and very good at this treatment. My hair being 3b/3c was always quite stubborn and most other stylist I went to weren't always successful at getting all the curls out r they cut corners. Whereas this stylist is VERY detail oriented and her prices are reasonable and close to what you mentioned.

Even if you only had to do the treatment twice a year (much less I highly doubt would work without using a blowdryer or flat iron for the inconsistent or difference in texture/shine/straightness considering it comes out bone straight) its still something to consider in terms of hours spent in the chair (which may not be a big deal but I seriously would dread appointment days because of it) and of course the chemicals. True, there aren't fumes to be inhaled like with the Keratin treatments, but the stinging and the burning of the scalp is very real and it would lend to sore scalp for a few days after. Idk if you have already done this or not, but I also would look at photos/videos of those who have done this treatment to see the type of texture or volume you would end up with. For me the volume was practically non-existent which is why I started using clip ins to help AND used a curly iron to get a little more volume. My hair was between shoulder and BSL.

The hair can feel weird and at times gummy (when wet) but once I switched my stylist I experience the gummy-ness a lot less as I think she was better at gauging the ideal mixture and timing for my hair which meant less damage. But know it will feel somewhat differently regardless when wet. When dry it feels much better but I hardly had any shine unless I added oil/shine spray which made my hair have even less volume. Anyway I just wanted to share all the info from my experience of doing this for 15 years. I generally wasn't good to my hair on top of these treatments such as using heat daily and still using a curling iron on top of it to get mermaid waves (thinking back, I was clueless when it came to hair health). Plus I didn't do deep conditioning treatments or protein treatments to help my fragile hair out. I completely understand and should point out, your experience may differ greatly especially considering your texture is much less curly than mine. And i will be happy to share my stylist info with you if you are interested, at least you would be going to someone who is very experienced and very good at her job.

I do hope your hair cut (Hopefully you are going with someone who either specializes or is experienced in wavy texture) is going to allow you to enjoy your natural texture with an easy wash and go using perhaps a curling cream - which sounds like really works for you to get those beach waves! Best of luck and I can very much relate to wanting to try something out for yourself.

[flowerbabies]

My advice (and I’m no expert by any means) is to ride this one out. I’ve had two kids, I’ve had the shedding. I regret chopping and I regret chemical treatments even more. Your hair is going to be fine. If you want length don’t chop. You’re going to regret chopping and you will definitely regret doing a chemical treatment on your whole head. You’ll be paying for that for years.

If you’re not worried about length go for it, but understand your nice Virgin hair is not going to ever be the same.

[Alex Lou]

Maybe just microtrim? If the shedding is now an issue, it will not be say in half a year, and by that time you might regret going really short. If you don't like BSL, imagine how you will feel at pixie?
Good advice.

Long hair is for sure, and will forever be, the easiest, least maintenance hair for me. But I've been having pixie dreams for years. It's almost too hard to go short when you hang around on LHC too long. I see this as an opportunity. I'm determined to enjoy short hair for a while. I do remember having a pixie and needing to style it every day which is why I haven't pulled the trigger yet.


I think that you might be the best person to give you a hair cut you like. You already have some experience so you've gotten over the hardest step. I was very afraid when I first started. I would check out some different tutorials on YouTube, there are many different hemline and easy layered/compact cuts you can do on your own hair.
I agree with lapushka as well. I am a firm believer of you can always trim more but cant glue it back on. And hair takes a long time to grow, pixie back to bsl could be 3 or more years.
I also just got over a postpartum shed and I am glad I didnt chop. It did last some months and was very unsettling so I understand how you feel. I would save hairs and even count them(dont recommend it can cause more stress) to keep track and monitor until it finally slowed down just recently. My son is 18 months now, I shed heavily for close to a year of that time. My overall thickness is already traveling down again, I did have tufts sticking up for a while but they're starting to lay down now.
What if you change your sleep style to give you uniform beachy waves everyday? A cinnabun or rope braided cinnabun on top of my head gives pretty good results.
I like to think that I'm pretty good at cutting my own hair. But there are limitations in cutting your own hair and I don't think I can get what I want on my own.

Congrats on your thickness making it's way down! I guess mine must never have filled back in because my son is only 3 so that's only a foot and a half of regrowth. I kind of regret not cutting my hair after my last pregnancy, at least to waist. It's not worth being unhappy with my hair so long. The shedding is not upsetting to me. I knew it was coming. I even cut my hair last year knowing it was coming.

I can kinda get my hair in a cinnabun overnight but the waves end up too tight. I mean to try a sock bun but usually I just don't find time to do that stuff before bed and it's going to be difficult when it's this short.


If you are willing to drive to LA, I can provide you with the contact information for the stylist I used for past 8 years (after much trial and error, found her and stuck with her as she is really good and her prices are great). The salon is Korean so language barrier is definitely a thing there but the stylist is very sweet and very good at this treatment. My hair being 3b/3c was always quite stubborn and most other stylist I went to weren't always successful at getting all the curls out r they cut corners. Whereas this stylist is VERY detail oriented and her prices are reasonable and close to what you mentioned.

Even if you only had to do the treatment twice a year (much less I highly doubt would work without using a blowdryer or flat iron for the inconsistent or difference in texture/shine/straightness considering it comes out bone straight) its still something to consider in terms of hours spent in the chair (which may not be a big deal but I seriously would dread appointment days because of it) and of course the chemicals. True, there aren't fumes to be inhaled like with the Keratin treatments, but the stinging and the burning of the scalp is very real and it would lend to sore scalp for a few days after. Idk if you have already done this or not, but I also would look at photos/videos of those who have done this treatment to see the type of texture or volume you would end up with. For me the volume was practically non-existent which is why I started using clip ins to help AND used a curly iron to get a little more volume. My hair was between shoulder and BSL.

The hair can feel weird and at times gummy (when wet) but once I switched my stylist I experience the gummy-ness a lot less as I think she was better at gauging the ideal mixture and timing for my hair which meant less damage. But know it will feel somewhat differently regardless when wet. When dry it feels much better but I hardly had any shine unless I added oil/shine spray which made my hair have even less volume. Anyway I just wanted to share all the info from my experience of doing this for 15 years. I generally wasn't good to my hair on top of these treatments such as using heat daily and still using a curling iron on top of it to get mermaid waves (thinking back, I was clueless when it came to hair health). Plus I didn't do deep conditioning treatments or protein treatments to help my fragile hair out. I completely understand and should point out, your experience may differ greatly especially considering your texture is much less curly than mine. And i will be happy to share my stylist info with you if you are interested, at least you would be going to someone who is very experienced and very good at her job.

I do hope your hair cut (Hopefully you are going with someone who either specializes or is experienced in wavy texture) is going to allow you to enjoy your natural texture with an easy wash and go using perhaps a curling cream - which sounds like really works for you to get those beach waves! Best of luck and I can very much relate to wanting to try something out for yourself.
Oh, "gummy" sounds really bad. I would not want that. Was that with multiple applications, or right away after the first time?

I have been looking at before and after photos and videos. It's still hard for me to tell what it will look like. It looks different on different people/hair types. My hair is thick and very coarse, so It's hard for me to imagine that it will be completely flat to my head without any volume at all.

[Alex Lou]

I finally went to one of the salons because they said over the phone they needed to see my hair. And he said because it's so coarse, frizzy, and thick it will take at least 5 and a half hours! Not sure I want to sit in the chair that long...

[lapushka]

I finally went to one of the salons because they said over the phone they needed to see my hair. And he said because it's so coarse, frizzy, and thick it will take at least 5 and a half hours! Not sure I want to sit in the chair that long...

What!? That somehow doesn't sound right. What are they gonna do in those 5.5H?

[BerrySara]

What!? That somehow doesn't sound right. What are they gonna do in those 5.5H?

Sounds perfectly right to me. Its due to the multi-step process and they at one point (prior to last step) literally straight iron tinyyy sections of hair paper straight. Just this process alone can take hours. For me it used to take 6-6.5 hours which is why I have been saying in previous posts here that it really is a huge time commitment and I genuinely started to dread and hate having to sit in that chair for all those hours. Dreaded. It.

[lapushka]

Sounds perfectly right to me. Its due to the multi-step process and they at one point (prior to last step) literally straight iron tinyyy sections of hair paper straight. Just this process alone can take hours. For me it used to take 6-6.5 hours which is why I have been saying in previous posts here that it really is a huge time commitment and I genuinely started to dread and hate having to sit in that chair for all those hours. Dreaded. It.

For hair that is virtually straight (2a)?

[BerrySara]

For hair that is virtually straight (2a)?

Yes. If the goal is to permanently break the bonds, then yes. You can't skip steps in the process. The treatment is complicated and lengthy. The flat ironing portion would take less (though each strand would need to ironed...twice), but all other steps would take about the same.

The treatment is to permanently break the bonds and restructure the internal structure of the hair.

Shampooing...
Pre-Treatment...
Applying the Activator... (sits in hair for a duration)
Rinse. ...
Blow dry...
meticulously flat Ironing...
Applying the Neutralizer... (sits in hair for a duration)
Rinsing the Neutralizer...
blow drying and flat ironing bone straight again - no washing for a few days for hair to "set"

And if your stylist cares, she would also add a deep conditioning step where she applies a mask and have you sit under heat after rinsing out activator. All of this adds up and even with 2a hair.

[lapushka]

Pfff, I am getting tired just reading about it. LOL! :) I don't think I could just sit for that amount of time (even with my disability, especially with that, I need to "move", take a couple steps like every 15-30min.) It would be torture for me.

But hey if you are willing to undergo it, Alex Lou, and you have thought it through, I would say go for it when you can.

[Alex Lou]

He was basing this on the texture of my hair. He had said over the phone 3-4 hours. But I have kinky (what he referred to as "frizzy") follicles interspersed all over and it's very coarse with torsion twists. So I guess I shouldn't be surprised about the amount of time required based on what BerrySara said.

It does sound like torture, lapushka, that describes perfectly how I was imagining it. And since I'm breastfeeding, I'd be coming up on time limits there.

So... time to decide on a shorter cut that will hopefully flatter my waves.

[Alex Lou]

Just thought I'd update that I did cut my hair. It's great! Kind of a layered Bob. I don't did anything with it whatsoever. It just dries however it wants and the ends flip this way and that. No styling and no bad hair days. Been swimming lots with it already.