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nicolina
November 6th, 2008, 07:11 PM
I've been COing for a while, and want to try baking soda, but I couldn't see any thread or article about it on here. Can anyone point me in the right direction or give me any tips on using BS?

girlcat36
November 6th, 2008, 07:17 PM
I put about 1/2-3/4 teaspoon in a 20 oz. bottle of warm water, pour it over already wet hair in the shower, wait a minute, then rinse well, condition.
You may need more or less baking soda, you will have to experiment.
Some people put it in their shampoo, or directly on their scalp, but I find my method less harsh.

hipmama1970
November 6th, 2008, 07:26 PM
What is the baking soda supposed to do for you?

girlcat36
November 6th, 2008, 07:30 PM
It clarifies.
There are clarifying shampoos, but my hair hates shampoo. I get better results with BS. People with curly hair seem to have better results with BS.

eaglefeather71
November 6th, 2008, 07:36 PM
What is the baking soda supposed to do for you?
BS is used in place of shampoo. There is a method called "No-Poo" where you use BS to wash and ACV to condition.

I used to add 1ts BS to 1-2 cups water and pour that over my hair, massage my scalp and rinse with water. THen I would use 1-2 ts ACV to 1-4 cups water and pour that over my hair and rinse with water. (amounts take experimentation for your hair) THe idea is that the BS being a base opens your cuticle and gently washes away the sebum and the ACV being acidic closes the cuticle and smooths the hair. At least thats how I understand it to work. I no longer use that method unless I need to clarify (Once in over 6 months) because I had a MAJOR shed while doing No-Poo. It doesn't do that for everyone, most people do ok with it. I do still use the ACV now and then after a shampoo bar, but it has to be VERY diluted for me because my scalp gets bumps if its too strong.

nicolina
November 7th, 2008, 05:45 AM
Thanks, girlcat and eaglefeather. *Toddles off to have a go*

teacher_mom2
November 7th, 2008, 05:48 AM
In the book "Curly girl" that I recently bought, she said that if you have an itchy or dry spot on your scalp, mix some CONDITIONER with BROWN SUGAR. Make a little paste and rub it on your scalp. Brown sugar is supposed to be easier on your hair than baking soda.

Sighridh
November 8th, 2008, 07:57 PM
I've been using 1 Tbl baking soda to a little over 1 cup hot water to wash my hair, but my hair has been extra frizzy and dry and I've been losing the curls lately, even with vinegar rinses and oiling the ends.
Now reading this thread I'm remembering that the amounts may need to be adjusted. Since I'm around 5 weeks into it (I lost track a little, but that sounds about right), I'm going to try reducing the amount I use and see if I can get closer to WO. That would be really cool if my scalp and hair are actually starting to adjust!

Wind Dragon
November 8th, 2008, 09:39 PM
Here you go. (http://www.natural-forces.com/essays/poofree.htm)

I went a bit more dilute than is suggested here when I was using this method -- one tablespoon baking soda to two cups of water, and 1-2 tablespoons of ACV to about three cups of water for the rinse.

ETA: And here's the article/thread on it in the LHC archives. (http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=56523)

SeaPhoenix
November 19th, 2008, 08:07 AM
My scalp was getting a bit itchy this last week - I suspect because I'm switching to shampoo bars... so I decided to give the baking soda rinse a shot as a kind of clarifier.
I wound up doing 1tsp baking soda to about 20z or so of water (the container is an old spaghetti sauce jar). I rinsed that through my hair in the shower, let it sit for a minute, and then rinsed it out, followed by a citric acid rinse (one pinch of citric acid to that same jar size of water).
Followed with my usual light camellia oiling - and my hair doesn't feel stripped at all. Scalp is a tad itchy still, but not as bad as before... I think maybe I should add a bit more baking soda to my rinse next time. I saw a lot of people use a tablespoon instead of a teaspoon for the amount of water I am using - might be something for me to experiment with.

But - either way - My hair's turned out nice - and this has cleared up some of the over moisture build up I was getting too - so my hair is back to looking smooth, clean, and silky, but not lank (it was fairly lank all day today before I did the baking soda rinse - though part of that is no doubt because I grabbed a regular moisturizing body soap for my hair instead of the shampoo bar)

I'm thinking of swapping out the shampoo bars every few days with a dilute baking soda wash as a means to keep my hair from getting too much build up. We'll see how it goes over the next week or two, though. :-)

But yay - still very excited to be able to finally use these much more economical methods and get great results...! I'd have never believed I could use shampoo bars, much less baking soda as a successful cleansing method before (and I have tried in the past! I really think its working for me now because of the addition of the camellia oil).

Sammybunny711
November 19th, 2008, 08:16 AM
Hmmm....I think I too shall give a baking soda rinse a go...this could be interesting...

lora410
November 19th, 2008, 08:20 AM
In the book "Curly girl" that I recently bought, she said that if you have an itchy or dry spot on your scalp, mix some CONDITIONER with BROWN SUGAR. Make a little paste and rub it on your scalp. Brown sugar is supposed to be easier on your hair than baking soda.

yup, brown sugar scrubs are popular aroudn here ;)

heidi w.
November 19th, 2008, 03:55 PM
Baking Soda may well work for some as a shampoo-type agent, but overall, I personally would not recommend this as a hair wash agent for each and every hair wash. Those interested in going shampoo-free have plenty of other alternative cleansing agents than Baking Soda to consider. There exist on the market a few SLS-free shampoos, shampoo bars, methods for using conditioner or water only.

Much of the decision to opt out of using Shampoo that most of us are familiar with is VERY connected to the particulars of your scalp skin health AND hair health. Scalp skin may need different things than hair, especially in instances of psoriasis, exzema, dandruff, seborrheic dermatitus and more. Those prone to quick production of sebum may need to wash more no matter the method. Others may need to include scritching to loosen dead skin cells and dandruff type flakes.

Bottom line, BAKING SODA CLARIFIES THE HAIR. This means specifically and absolutely that hair is then stripped of all gunk that's dried on: product; minerals from hard water that's there; sebum; dirt. It is stripped of all things that make it moisturized and supple. In short, it's drying, very much so, especially without a good conditioning session to follow. It strips it off the SURFACE, the TOP OF the cuticle. CLARIFYING does NOT handle any problems with the cortex. That process would be known as CHELATING.

The main reason I do NOT recommend Baking Soda as a hair wash agent for each and every hair wash is that it is so stripping, and can be drying if hair is not well conditioned as part of this type of hair wash process. ACV is not a good enough conditioner for this situation, as you will note later.

QUOTE FROM WITHIN THIS THREAD: THe idea is that the BS being a base opens your cuticle and gently washes away the sebum and the ACV being acidic closes the cuticle and smooths the hair. At least thats how I understand it to work.
The underscored part could be interpreted to mean that Baking Soda removes sebum that is inside the hair shaft. Just to be clear, in case someone interprets the writing this way, Sebum doesn't necessarily penetrate the hair shaft: it overwhelmingly is really a topical occurrence, that is, on top of the hair, on top of the scalp skin, on top of the cuticle actually. Sebum's main reason for existence is to help with balancing the acid mantle, that is, the SCALP SKIN. It so happens that hair is nearby, so it shows up looking kinda, well, what we term oily or greasy, but indeed, Sebum is ACTUALLY a waxy ester, so think of it more like a wax that provides a protective barrier to keep dirt out of hair follicles, keeps skin supple (not cracked and dry), and hair shiny (nearby, such as hair nearest the scalp, not the tippy ends of a long length, for example), to a degree (small).

SO, yes, Baking Soda strips off sebum too. But Baking Soda doesn’t manage any problems or concerns or issues or needs inside the hair shaft, at the cortex level. Most products we apply will be topical – on TOP of the cuticle forming a kind of shield. When this shield becomes too much, that is buildup.

The hot or warm water of a shower OPENS the cuticle all on its own. Being a base or alkali (on the pH balance spectrum), Baking Soda may well contribute to opening the cuticle as well, but hot/warm water will achieve this just as well. (I honestly wish so many times that I had a testing lab to test stuff in a reliable manner.)

Regarding buildup:
I personally think that buildup is not that bad. For example, one of the premises behind not washing daily is to actually allow sebum to build a little bit, and then use a mechanism to get that down the length, or all over apply some oil, for example, which is a mimicry (of sebum) type of coating. The steps to acquiring buildup are not necessarily harmful to hair, really. It’s more likely that some of these things can be problematic to the skin, however. For most natural hair care enthusiasts, buildup doesn’t peak usually more than 4-2 times a year, depending on the hair wash method, and general hair care. CO washers may need to clarify a bit more often. Those using a lot of product on top of the hair such as styling agents, serums and the like will experience this much more frequently over the duration of a year, of course.

Nevertheless, for natural hair care interests, I would argue that there is no need to PREVENT buildup since it’s relatively infrequent in this hair care methodology. The only thing that occurs with buildup is that hair appears unclean or filmy after a fresh hair wash and conditioner can suddenly seem not to work. Then one clarifies, and conditions, and is back to beautiful, bouncy (I mean this more broadly than for curly hair types—straight hair when unclean and with too much on it becomes lank) hair. Thus, clarifying on any kind of schedule is typically unnecessary.

I prefer to just wait til it’s just time and my hair actually needs this treatment. Baking soda, or any clarify hair wash, is a bit drying, and thus harsh to hair, especially if one does NOT condition well (again Condition Well as part of any clarify hair wash).

For the person who said they have been washing with Baking Soda and water and reporting that their hair is dry and frizzy lately, I would suggest that very likely the hair is so precisely because of using Baking Soda and possibly either not conditioning or not conditioning well enough. (If a curly hair type, some form of leave-in is needed, such as oil, too.) I would suggest doing a much better job at conditioning for the curly hair type after clarifying. IF you like oiling (as a curly girl!), do so while hair is wet – don’t wait til it’s fully air dried. I would suggest considering CO washing according to the Curly Girl method (this is a book) for the level of curl your hair possesses.

ACV as a conditioner. I understand completely the acidic properties of ACV. First, ACV’s primary benefit is NOT conditioning. It’s primary benefit is to re-set the acid mantle (scalp skin) to a more acidic state since most average hair shampoo systems leave the skin in a more alkali state and human skin prefers a bit more nudging towards the acid range. In this way, ACV Rinse helps to effect a “balanced” pH, that measurement being somewhere between 5.5-7.0 (5.5 is in the acidic range; 6.0-6.5 or so is more or less neutral approximately, the middle of the range of measurement) Secondly, it can “clarify” in a limited way: that is product that was left un-rinsed out well enough will be removed in that hair wash only; thus, even using the term "clarify" in this context CAN BE misleading (and has been so misunderstood at times by readers of this forum LHC); however, it does not remove dried on anything (once the hair has dried with whatever on it, ACV Rinse won’t remove that.) Uh, to add it can remove hard water minerals in that specific hair wash only.

It’s final benefit, and this is where folks get the idea of “conditioning” from: vinegar (whether Apple Cider vinegar or white vinegar, or indeed, even lemon juice) “binds” the cuticle. Binds means to help the cuticle scales to lie closer and tighter, WITHIN the context of one’s hair type. In this way, a small degree of shine improvement may be noticed. While there’s always exceptions to everything somehow, I would state that ACV Rinse, or lemon or any vinegar rinse is not “conditioning” in the way we think of it – to help with detangling, to coat the hair with a protective layer; to apply “conditioner” that works by bonding with the cuticle imparting that softness and sheen and tangle-less (as in less tangles than more, meaning a comparative term v. no tangles at all) or tangle–free result.

The application, as an important precaution of Baking Soda Clarify Hair Wash AND Vinegar of some kind combined SHOULD NEVER BE DONE. Period. These are separate activities with PLENTY OF RINSING with water in between.

All vinegar and lemon (or other acidic rinses) SHOULD BE HIGHLY diluted. For example, no more than 3 Tablespoons in one 8 oz. cup. Or more, if you find this then performs better.

All such rinses are precisely that: rinses, and should be rinsed out, not left on the hair to remain on even through drying and then only removed the next hair wash cycle. The hair will be tacky, a weird touch and tangly, perhaps even a kind of crispy feeling if the acidic rinse is left in the hair and not rinsed out. You do not need to leave this rinse on a long time, either. It works quickly.

I hope this <ahem> clarifies things a bit about judicious use of Baking Soda. There are those who did NOT condition after using this type of clarify hair wash and came away thinking that the hair wash was unsuccessful: they came away with a kind of odd brittley texture yet the hair does not break; and definitely the feeling is not very soft hair, either, and tangles more. My point is that actually, in the scenario of not performing conditioning, or ooops, forgotten altogether (some people don’t have a habit of conditioning hair), that actually this clarify hair wash DID ABSOLUTELY WORK. This is what clarified hair without conditioning comes out as, and why I so vehemently pursue ensuring that folks KNOW to condition well as part of ANY CLARIFY HAIR WASH, whether it be Baking Soda mixed with water or shampoo of choice or conditioner; or a store purchased clarify shampoo product.

I hope this helps!
heidi w.

heidi w.
November 21st, 2008, 03:43 PM
This is an excellent post that GLADTOBEMOM organized about buildup, clarifying. I highly recommend reading it. This woman is a scientist and has a lot of good info from a scientific vantage point. This thread is now showing on the MANE FORUM.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=15746

heidi w.

ktani
November 21st, 2008, 04:28 PM
I have posted this before on baking soda. I think that it is too abrasive for hair unless it is very very diluted.

"Polishing
The hardness of the particle is about 2.5 on the new Mohs hardness scale, so it can remove dirt without damaging materials such as stainless steel and iron which have high values of new Mohs hardness. .... it may damage soft metals such as aluminium and copper since their values of Mohs hardness are relatively low. So please be careful when you rinse such metals with baking soda.

.... there would be some problems if baking soda were used for shampoo/soap for humans ..... it might damage skin, although there are differences between individuals.

As for the question about whether baking soda is good for hair, baking soda is usually used to remove hard dirt on pots or frying pans. But the protein in hair is fragile. . .... my conclusion is that you don't have to use baking soda to wash your hair."
http://www.chemistryquestion.com/English/Questions/ChemistryInDailyLife/4c_baking_soda.html

SeaPhoenix
November 21st, 2008, 05:11 PM
Thank you for posting the link - I think I'll stop any baking soda experiments. I have some old aveda detoxifier shampoo left over from when I bought it a couple years ago. I'll try that - and try the citric acid glop conditioner in conjunction with the shampoo bars...

Wind Dragon
November 21st, 2008, 07:55 PM
I have posted this before on baking soda. I think that it is too abrasive for hair unless it is very very diluted.

That's why the Shampoo-Free method instructions specify no more than one tablespoon of baking soda per cup of water. At that ratio it will dissolve completely.

ktani
November 21st, 2008, 08:14 PM
According to this, that can take a while.

.... it is now ten minutes later and the baking soda is still not dissolved. I used warm water. I didn't measure it, but the water was around body temperature .... I took an ounce of water .... and added 5 grams of ground up salt (a full teaspoon) to one glass. I added 5 grams of baking soda (about 2/3 of a teaspoon) to another glass with the same amount of water....."
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1998-03/891095448.Ot.r.html

jessie58
November 21st, 2008, 09:15 PM
I have used baking soda over the last few years and boy does it clean the hair. It definitely removes any buildup. However it should be used very carefully as mentioned in posts above. It should be well diluted (I use it with very diluted shampoo) and well rinsed. Then followed up with a vinegar rinse. I would definitely recommend using a leave in conditioner on the ends if you are prone to dry hair. I also found that, as mentioned above it works well for curly hair for some reason, better than my straight haired friends. I only use it every once a month or every 2 months. It brings the curl back to life in my hair.

Wind Dragon
November 21st, 2008, 10:22 PM
According to this, that can take a while.

.... it is now ten minutes later and the baking soda is still not dissolved. I used warm water. I didn't measure it, but the water was around body temperature .... I took an ounce of water .... and added 5 grams of ground up salt (a full teaspoon) to one glass. I added 5 grams of baking soda (about 2/3 of a teaspoon) to another glass with the same amount of water....."
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1998-03/891095448.Ot.r.html

2/3 teaspoon baking soda to one ounce of water is equivalent to 1 tablespoon baking soda to about 4 1/2 ounces of water. The recommended maximum is 1 tablespoon to 8 ounces of water. I ended up using only about half that, but not because the full amount didn't dissolve. :shrug:

ETA: Okay, never mind, I see what you were saying. I think. I can't imagine what the problem is, though. Mind you I tended to use hot water rather than warm, now that I think about it, but never once did mine not dissolve.

jessie58
November 21st, 2008, 10:42 PM
2/3 teaspoon baking soda to one ounce of water is equivalent to 1 tablespoon baking soda to about 4 1/2 ounces of water. The recommended maximum is 1 tablespoon to 8 ounces of water. I ended up using only about half that, but not because the full amount didn't dissolve. :shrug:

ETA: Okay, never mind, I see what you were saying. I think. I can't imagine what the problem is, though. Mind you I tended to use hot water rather than warm, now that I think about it, but never once did mine not dissolve.

I put mine with room temperature shampoo with a bit of warm water and it only sort of half dissolves. It never fully dissolves.

ktani
November 22nd, 2008, 06:17 AM
2/3 teaspoon baking soda to one ounce of water is equivalent to 1 tablespoon baking soda to about 4 1/2 ounces of water. The recommended maximum is 1 tablespoon to 8 ounces of water. I ended up using only about half that, but not because the full amount didn't dissolve. :shrug:

ETA: Okay, never mind, I see what you were saying. I think. I can't imagine what the problem is, though. Mind you I tended to use hot water rather than warm, now that I think about it, but never once did mine not dissolve.

If you have always had it fully dissolve, that is why in part, IMO, you have not had problems with it. And yes, in the experiment quoted, the amount is not the same as that recommended for hair. The point though, is the length of time it can take for baking soda to dissolve in water.

Once fully dissolved, the risk of possible damage to hair from the abrasive factor is gone.

ktani
November 22nd, 2008, 06:28 AM
Somehow I had never thought about the dissolving issue. I know that in baking and mixed with vinegar, baking soda recacts with acid and changes. I just never looked at baking soda and water in terms of all of the baking soda going into solution.

ktani
November 22nd, 2008, 06:41 AM
Apparently, higher the water temperature, the more quicky the baking soda fully dissloves. So that IMO, is important if one wants to use it on hair and eliminate a key negative factor to get better results with it.