From trimmer to non-trimmer: is it possible?

[LadyCelestina]

I apologise for starting a separate thread, but I wanted to hear both positive and negative experiences, and I wasn't sure how would I fare if I posted in, for example, the No trimming thread :)


My story: I've always cycled between growing my hair to waist or hip curly, then cutting back a good chunk. Looking back, it might seem like a list of impulsive decisions, but when I thought about it I realised that the reason why I do it is that it's incredibly difficult to microtrim my hair. So I would chop, grow a bit, chop... cca every 3 to 6 months.

Due to some actual impulsive decisions in 2016, and then a few years before that, I've basically always had something to trim out off my hair during my journey, be it dye, layers, hemline mishaps...

The only time when I had nothing to trim out of my hair was 2015 to early 2016, and I think I just let it grow back then with no trims, but I'm not sure. Back then I didn't care so much about my hair.



Right now: Now I'm in a situation where I'm completely satisfied with my hair! :) Finally! And I don't have anything to trim out. So after years of being a fairly regular trimmer (as I said, every 3 to 6 months, with some smaller trims in between if I felt like it), I'm starting with a blank slate, and would like to develop a trimming schedule, but I'm not quite sure how to go about it, and would love to hear your experiences with going no-trim after being a fairly regular trimmer. Good or bad.

Monthly microtrims are not very realistic, as my hair is curly and it's difficult to cut off a small enough amount. Every 3 months still seems like a lot if I want growth, since the smallest amount I can easily trim off is 2-3cm, so that would be over a half of my growth. I think I've grown my hair before with regular trims every 2-3 months, the hemline looked great but progress was very slow.

The next logical step would be 6 months, I tried going six months trim free in 2017, but it was on damaged hair and my ends thinned out a lot. But since my hair is rather healthy now and I've developed some good haircare habits like wearing it up, I'm actually eyeing yearly trims!

Advantages would be that a yearly trim would fit into my prefered grow/chop cycle, since there'd be a lot more growth and a lot more leeway in case I take off more than I intended. The other thing is that I've calculated that... if I manage to trim off as little as possible, I should be classic while wet in 2 years or so ;) Classic is like my ultimate hairgoal ever since I started dabbling in long hair, so reaching it even if while wet/stretched would be very rewarding!

However, I have some doubts too. I like to have a neat hemline, it's pretty important to me. Plus I'm worried by people reporting that they hair has suffered so much damage during no-trim periods that they had to cut off a lot more than they grew. Some hairtypes seem to do better with fairly regular trims, and since my whole journey has been a story of trimming stuff out (or having length I don't mind cutting off), I'm a bit scared about going the no trim route :cool:

[leayellena]

I realized the reason why my braid seems so thin. I reached 9 cm (3.54 inches) ponytail circ. while the rest of the length is still thin. I won't trim for at least 3 years, my hemline is fairytaled from apl to tbl but long hair don't care because my hair is always up. I know that one day my hair will grow and my hemline will look good. Before I joined LHC I had 6 cm (2.36 inches) ponytail circ. Of course hemline looks awful when you suddenly have a growth spurt.
Besides your curly hair can hide more length than my straight hair. Try it. :) You can join half-year challenges if you think a year or more is too much time without a trim.

[LadyCelestina]

I realized the reason why my braid seems so thin. I reached 9 cm (3.54 inches) ponytail circ. while the rest of the length is still thin. I won't trim for at least 3 years, my hemline is fairytaled from apl to tbl but long hair don't care because my hair is always up. I know that one day my hair will grow and my hemline will look good. Before I joined LHC I had 6 cm (2.36 inches) ponytail circ. Of course hemline looks awful when you suddenly have a growth spurt.
Besides your curly hair can hide more length than my straight hair. Try it. :) You can join half-year challenges if you think a year or more is too much time without a trim.

Wow, that's a huge increase in thickness! Congrats!

See, that's where my problem is. I admire people who patiently grow out dye or taper for years so, so much. Unfortunately, if there's something I don't like about my hair, I will think about cutting it - I have joined no trim challenges before, but I almost always failed (save for the 6m one), because there was alway *something* in my hair that I wanted to get rid off. Now there's nothing, I'm wholly satisfied with it, and want to take advantage of that. Except I'm worried that I'll end up with taper or unevennes which I'll want to cut off in the end :D (Oh god, typing it out makes it sound so silly :D me searching for problems when there aren't any yet)

[lapushka]

Maybe try it out *again* with much healthier hair, for half a year. I don't want to further divide the threads into 3 months because that hardly makes it a good challenge, IMO, as trimming every 3 months is just "regular trims". So that kind of contradicts each other, IMO at least.

[Entangled]

I have never sworn off trimming, but have gotten lazy with trims in the past. For me, I found that while I didn't trim as often, I ended up cutting off just as much all at once in a chop. (Five inches) Since this was out of laziness, I also wasn't as nice to my ends during the no trimming period, and it coincided with the time period where my braid was long enough to brush the seat of my chair, so that probably contributed to the thin, grabby ends I cut off. I am still used to a cut rather than natural hemline, though, so it'd be good to hear from a no-trimmer.

[lapushka]

It seems I have become a serial maintainer. My plan is to teeter-tot between classic & FTL. This means that each January I will be cutting back to classic and will be letting it grow the rest of the year, until next January, where it repeats itself. This seems the best I can do. Classic-FTL is just my limit. I have "learned" to deal with hair a little over classic so growing it for a year, will be no problem. And as far as cutting goes, I would rather just do it once and have it over and done with, cutting a huge chunk off, rather than 6 times small pieces. It is a chore to get that ponytail on the forehead with wavy hair, even after a week, especially if there's gel in there. LOL!

[luluj]

I'm not quite sure how to go about it, and would love to hear your experiences with going no-trim after being a fairly regular trimmer. Good or bad.

Some hairtypes seem to do better with fairly regular trims, and since my whole journey has been a story of trimming stuff out (or having length I don't mind cutting off), I'm a bit scared about going the no trim route :cool:

I am, without a doubt, a fairly regular trimmer. Proof is apparent, I joined this forum in 2009 and the longest I have managed to grow my hair is a bit past BSL. The reason I always give myself for going ahead and trimming is that I like the look and feel of soft, freshly trimmed ends. This is true, of course, but I so want longer hair with the same soft, fresh ends, though.

Common sense dictates that I need to micro-trim, rarely, if I want to make it to APL, my goal at the moment. I am completely committed to this goal.

Just an observation....I truly believe that some of us are compulsive trimmers, we always need to be doing something/anything to our hair. Why is this? How does one change the habit?

[Sarahlabyrinth]

I am, without a doubt, a fairly regular trimmer. Proof is apparent, I joined this forum in 2009 and the longest I have managed to grow my hair is a bit past BSL. The reason I always give myself for going ahead and trimming is that I like the look and feel of soft, freshly trimmed ends. This is true, of course, but I so want longer hair with the same soft, fresh ends, though.

Common sense dictates that I need to micro-trim, rarely, if I want to make it to APL, my goal at the moment. I am completely committed to this goal.

Just an observation....I truly believe that some of us are compulsive trimmers, we always need to be doing something/anything to our hair. Why is this? How does one change the habit?

Maybe the urge to do something with your hair could be satisfied by doing a deep treatment rather than trimming so often? Just a thought. What helps me is joining a no trimming thread, then I tell myself that I'm not allowed to trim until such and such a date. I also tell myself that nobody sees my ends, as they are in a bun so it's easy not to trim until the right time.

[luluj]

Maybe the urge to do something with your hair could be satisfied by doing a deep treatment rather than trimming so often? Just a thought. What helps me is joining a no trimming thread, then I tell myself that I'm not allowed to trim until such and such a date. I also tell myself that nobody sees my ends, as they are in a bun so it's easy not to trim until the right time.

That is good advice, Sarah, thank-you. Yesterday I did a coconut oil, deep conditioning. My hair feels really nice and I am happy with how it looks and feels. I last trimmed in February. As you know, I have recently come back to the forum to try once more. The support here is wonderful, everyone is so encouraging.

Joining one of lapushka's no trimming threads is very good idea, thank-you. I did make the effort to enjoy my hair more and fuss over it. Recently I dusted off this thread https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=123749&page=41 in hopes of staying focused on growing longer. I have many hair toys that I love and want to wear again.

Thank-you for starting this thread LadyCelestina. :blossom:

[Reyn127]

Before joining here, I would trim my hair 2-3 times a year, and after joining I took on two years of the no trim challenge. The condition of my hair was much better than I thought it was going to be after all that time. Although I did keep up on S&D, so my hemline was definitely fairytailing more and more.

Overall, I gained a ton of length, and my ends were pretty fine. I switched over from regular trims to treating my hair every so often with conditioning treatments, and S&D sessions instead. So I think if you can find something to add to your routine to replace the trims, and if you’re ok with your hemline slowly changing, then you should be just fine with no trimming.

[luluj]

Before joining here, I would trim my hair 2-3 times a year, and after joining I took on two years of the no trim challenge. The condition of my hair was much better than I thought it was going to be after all that time. Although I did keep up on S&D, so my hemline was definitely fairytailing more and more.

Overall, I gained a ton of length, and my ends were pretty fine. I switched over from regular trims to treating my hair every so often with conditioning treatments, and S&D sessions instead. So I think if you can find something to add to your routine to replace the trims, and if you’re ok with your hemline slowly changing, then you should be just fine with no trimming.

This a very encouraging post, Reyn127, thank-you.

[luluj]

I like to have a neat hemline, it's pretty important to me. Plus I'm worried by people reporting that they hair has suffered so much damage during no-trim periods that they had to cut off a lot more than they grew. Some hairtypes seem to do better with fairly regular trims, and since my whole journey has been a story of trimming stuff out (or having length I don't mind cutting off), I'm a bit scared about going the no trim route :cool:

I feel the same way, LadyCelestina, a neat hemline is pretty important to me, too.

Going the no trim route is something I am willing to try, wish me luck.:pray:

[gingerninja]

Before joining i always had my hair cut once a year but i had much larger amounts cut off sometimes up to 5 inches due to the damage.

Now that i take much better care of my hair i haven't trimmed in 18 months and my taper has slowly been growing down with no noticeable damage.

[Lady Stardust]

I’ve been stretching my trims, slightly, over the last couple of years. I started with a pixie cut and had trims every 6 weeks, and found it incredibly hard to wait 12 weeks when I started to grow it longer. I had thin ends due to postpartum shed and the pixie layers combined, and I settled on trimming every 12 weeks so that I could thicken the ends up but carry on growing.

The last inch or so is still a bit thinner but I’m not too worried about it, so I am stretching my trims a little further, to once every four months. I prefer to only have half an inch cut at a time, because then it feels like I’m always moving forwards (or downwards!)

I might stretch the trims further in the future but it depends on how my ends look. When I was a teen I sometimes went six months or a year between hair cuts. Each time I went a whole year my ends would be see through, and this was only going between chin length and shoulder length. It’s obviously different for everyone, but for me, my ends do better when there’s strength in numbers. My hair isn’t very thick either so I would get discouraged if the ends were too thin. I expect that people with thick hair might have a little more leeway.

I think the important thing is to be mindful of how much you are happy to trim in one go, and then keep an eye on your ends to see when the time is right. For instance, if I only want to trim half an inch, I might be happy with 1.5 inches of thinner ends because I know that they’ll be trimmed out over the space of a year. Even then, if it feels and looks like the ends need trimming, clarify and baby the ends and see if that makes a difference.

Setting a target or six months or a year (or more) no trims wouldn’t work for me, but there’s nothing to say that I won’t eventually go as long as that between trims. It all depends on how the ends look, feel and behave. I would rather enjoy the journey and be happy with my ends than race to gain more length.

luluj I agree that deep conditioning or otherwise doing something nice for your hair can help if you have the urge to do something for your hair :)

[spidermom]

I was going to grow without trimming until waist length, but then I felt I was seeing too many split ends and hitting snags while combing, so I booked with my hair stylist. She told me "I know you think you have a lot of split ends and snaggy hair, but really, you're pretty low on the damage curve." I'm just too damn picky when it comes to my ends! I see problems where none exist! This is funny because when I've tried a hair color that I didn't want to maintain, I've just let it grow out, not in the least bit bothered by the two-toned look.

Anyway, what this boils down to, I guess, is "you do you." You can make a plan, but sometimes plans are made to be changed.

[luluj]

It all depends on how the ends look, feel and behave. I would rather enjoy the journey and be happy with my ends than race to gain more length.

luluj I agree that deep conditioning or otherwise doing something nice for your hair can help if you have the urge to do something for your hair :)

Hi, Lady Stardust.

I feel much the same way as you do, enjoy the journey, but enjoy it with happy, well maintained ends. We have to do what works best for us, personally, when it comes to hair care. What I have decided to do is go without trimming until December 2019. My ends are very healthy right now, so I should be able to do this while keeping my ends in good shape.

Yes, doing a nice conditioning treatment is the best!

[Lady Stardust]

Hi, Lady Stardust.

I feel much the same way as you do, enjoy the journey, but enjoy it with happy, well maintained ends. We have to do what works best for us, personally, when it comes to hair care. What I have decided to do is go without trimming until December 2019. My ends are very healthy right now, so I should be able to do this while keeping my ends in good shape.

Yes, doing a nice conditioning treatment is the best!

That sounds like a good plan :)

[luluj]

That sounds like a good plan :)

Thanks, Lady Stardust. It feels good to have a plan, now I have to baby the ends and keep my hair up as much as possible. As much as I love an updo, I wear my hair down a lot. This is something that I will focus on....anything to get to APL, lol!

[luluj]

Anyway, what this boils down to, I guess, is "you do you." You can make a plan, but sometimes plans are made to be changed.

Yes, this is very true, indeed.

[Corvana]

Funnily enough, after joining LHC I trim more often than I ever used to. I used to ignore my hair until it was "too long" (like BSL/MBL), then cut to shoulder or even mid-neck. The journey from SL to MBL is ~two years?

But now I trim once a year! I could probably continue not trimming for even longer, but I sort of like to start the year with a little trim!

[MusicalSpoons]

Before joining i always had my hair cut once a year but i had much larger amounts cut off sometimes up to 5 inches due to the damage.

Now that i take much better care of my hair i haven't trimmed in 18 months and my taper has slowly been growing down with no noticeable damage.

I could almost have written this except I think the largest amount I had off was 6 inches, and after I did no-trimming for however many months (21 I think?) I'm planning to trim probably every 6 months for a little while until my hemline is a bit thicker :)

My hair is pretty much always bunned so actual damage to the ends is minimal - but there is some thinning as they get ever longer and older, and I am going for length over health still, for now.

[LadyCelestina]

luluj, I'm glad this thread was helpful for you! Re: your question about why we trim, for me it's always wanting to improve my hair in this or that way. I am the type of person who gets incredibly bothered if something is "wrong", like if my nails are too long I feel physically uneasy and constantly aware of them being too long. I feel like no-trim challenge threads are actually somewhat counterproductive for me, since the focus on not trimming is actually making me focus on my ends instead of forgetting about it. LHC is counterproductive as well, actually, but I like it too much :lol:

Btw, if you want to, you can friend me (if you do lhc friends), and we can hold eachother accountable :)

____

Thank you all for your comments & experiences ! :flower:

Seems like the consensus is - you'll never know if you don't try, and that sometimes our hair behaves completely different than what we expect of it. I decided to just leave it alone until something is up with the ends or hemline, and see where it gets me.

[Dark40]

Before joining here I was also a regular trimmer too. But afterwards I was able to join and handle the, "No Trimming Challenge," quite well. Surprisingly my ends are at it healthiest it has ever been before joining LHC. Before I joined her I would take big chops, and cut off 2 inches every month, and I wasn't gaining or retaining any length at all. But now since I only do microtrims twice a year I have gained more length that I ever had in my whole entire life. When I joined LHC I was at chin length, and now I 2 inches below WL, and I never that my hair could ever grow that long. My goal is either classic or mid-thigh length. Because, right now at this point I feel that's what I can handle. I don't think that I can handle anything longer than that.

So, I think it's possible to go from a trimmer to a non-trimmer.

[RottenMango]

I usually go six months in between trims, but I’ve gone 7-8 months max, as well. As long as no major mistreatment to the hair is going on, the ends should remain healthy. I’m aiming to get down to once yearly trims or no trims at all by treating my hair like emerald encrusted silk. Last trim was February. No trimming until next year at least.

[leayellena]

Wow, that's a huge increase in thickness! Congrats!

See, that's where my problem is. I admire people who patiently grow out dye or taper for years so, so much. Unfortunately, if there's something I don't like about my hair, I will think about cutting it - I have joined no trim challenges before, but I almost always failed (save for the 6m one), because there was alway *something* in my hair that I wanted to get rid off. Now there's nothing, I'm wholly satisfied with it, and want to take advantage of that. Except I'm worried that I'll end up with taper or unevennes which I'll want to cut off in the end :D (Oh god, typing it out makes it sound so silly :D me searching for problems when there aren't any yet)


What stopped me to trim my hair is lhc-itis in the first place :p. plus: I hate how I look with short hair. I hate the puffiness and the fake volume that comes with strands sticking up.
now I don't know if I should call it ii/iii. my hair compresses so much in a braid or an updo, it seems back to a normal braid or bun.even if I hold my hair for 5 mins. in a braid or bun, it compresses. I can't make those loose buns because my buns get loose in 5 mins. not that loose to fall appart though, but loose enough not to give me a headache. my hair is so slippery I can't make a super tight braid. my braids are tight for the today's trends (even was told "your hair looks like you are prepared to wash your face" - whatever that means anyway) but they are not as tight as to cause traction alopecia. in 10 mins. I experience braid shred and looseness so it looks again like a normal braid.
so I think I have thick or close to actual thick hair but but it shreds and loosens so it doesn't look and feel thick.
do you, lhc, consider a 9 cm (3.54 inch) pony circ. to be ii/iii?

[luluj]

luluj, I'm glad this thread was helpful for you! Re: your question about why we trim, for me it's always wanting to improve my hair in this or that way. I am the type of person who gets incredibly bothered if something is "wrong", like if my nails are too long I feel physically uneasy and constantly aware of them being too long. I feel like no-trim challenge threads are actually somewhat counterproductive for me, since the focus on not trimming is actually making me focus on my ends instead of forgetting about it. LHC is counterproductive as well, actually, but I like it too much :lol:

Btw, if you want to, you can friend me (if you do lhc friends), and we can hold eachother accountable :)

____

Thank you all for your comments & experiences ! :flower:

Seems like the consensus is - you'll never know if you don't try, and that sometimes our hair behaves completely different than what we expect of it. I decided to just leave it alone until something is up with the ends or hemline, and see where it gets me.

It really is helpful for me, LadyCelestina. Thank-you, once again...and you are welcome.:flower:

I know what it is like to try and not focus on trimming. It's all I ever think about, when it comes to my hair, thus being a member since 2009 and back at 18 inches.:rolleyes: TLHC is the best, so much support and encouragement, it helps me to stay focused, as long as I keep coming here and posting. Life happens quite often and I am not able to be involved on a regular basis. I need to be involved in order to grow longer.

I like it here too much, just like you. :laugh: Maybe this time is the charm.

Being accountable works for me, thank-you for your support, it is greatly appreciated.

[luluj]

I went North for the weekend to be with family for Mother's Day, it was a lovely weekend. The thing is this, one of my family members had just had her hair cut and the style was so pretty, it looked beautiful on her.

This can be a trigger for my compulsive trimming self. Not this time, though. I am committed and focused on getting to APL. Besides, my ends are in great shape and I have been wearing my hair up much more. It is nice to reach for one of my beauties and find that they are now working for my length once again.

It's all good.:agree:

[Sarahlabyrinth]

I went North for the weekend to be with family for Mother's Day, it was a lovely weekend. The thing is this, one of my family members had just had her hair cut and the style was so pretty, it looked beautiful on her.

This can be a trigger for my compulsive trimming self. Not this time, though. I am committed and focused on getting to APL. Besides, my ends are in great shape and I have been wearing my hair up much more. It is nice to reach for one of my beauties and find that they are now working for my length once again.

It's all good.:agree:

VERY glad to hear it, your hair is so beautiful and I would hate to see it all cut short!

[EdG]

I stopped trimming maybe 15 years ago. One needs to get used to the look of "fairy-tale ends". It is not a common appearance, but there is no reason not to like it.
Ed

[luluj]

VERY glad to hear it, your hair is so beautiful and I would hate to see it all cut short!

Thank-you, Sarah, you are a a gem. :blossom:

Your post has encouraged and inspired me even more. :flower:

[luluj]

I stopped trimming maybe 15 years ago. One needs to get used to the look of "fairy-tale ends". It is not a common appearance, but there is no reason not to like it.
Ed
No reason at all, ED, I agree. Fifteen years without trim must be a record of some sort, you are a truly committed, long-haired man. I envy this.

[EdG]

No reason at all, ED, I agree. Fifteen years without trim must be a record of some sort, you are a truly committed, long-haired man. I envy this. Thanks! There is a thread here for non-trimmers. Success depends on one's terminal length relative to one's desired length. :)
Ed

[Haven]

I wish I hadn't trimmed so much last fall :( My ends felt dry and tangly for about an inch and I took it as a sign they were damaged and needed to come off, when now I've discovered I can fix that in one wash with a pre-poo oiling and CWC.

I like having a thick hemline, especially since I wear my hair down often when I go out, so I've been keeping up with regular microtrims this semester, but summer break is about to come (where I'll only see family on a regular basis, and I can wear it up at work). I think I want to go without trimming until September, which will make 5 months of letting it grow in peace.
I will probably trim a little just before I start my fall semester so I can have a thicker hemline for back-to-school season. If I reach waist by then I'll trim back to waist.

[LadyCelestina]

luluj Just today I tried to message you about my no trim progress (I have also succesfully talked myself out of trimming recently), but you have PM's turned off so I posted in the No Trimming thread instead :lol:

Glad you can enjoy your hairtoys again :flower:

[cestlavie]

When I had bleached and SL hair I trimmed my hair every 6 weeks. When I started to grow it out I stretched it to 8 weeks - 3 months - 4 months and eventually 6 months in a span of 3 years. I was rather addicted to trimming because I really enjoyed the soft ends. Now I know better and what helped me was growing out my bleached hair almost entirely. My natural hair doesn't require that much upkeep and it also helps that I can tuck my ends away in a bun to protect them even more. 6 months is the number for me now but when all the bleach is gone, I think I can go even longer without a trim!

[luluj]

luluj Just today I tried to message you about my no trim progress (I have also succesfully talked myself out of trimming recently), but you have PM's turned off so I posted in the No Trimming thread instead :lol:

Glad you can enjoy your hairtoys again :flower:

Hi, LadyCelestina. :waving:

Great minds think alike it seems. After my weekend away and my resolve to not be triggered into a hair trim/cut, I wanted to come here to post about it. Yes, I opt out of private messages for personal reasons, so I am so happy that you posted here! Happy to hear that you had a successful talk with yourself, also. We are both doing a great job, if I do say so myself.:bottomsup:

I am loving being able to use my hair toys again! :cloud9:

[luluj]

Thanks! There is a thread here for non-trimmers. Success depends on one's terminal length relative to one's desired length. :)
Ed

You are welcome, Ed. I found the thread, thank-you!

[luluj]

I wish I hadn't trimmed so much last fall :( My ends felt dry and tangly for about an inch and I took it as a sign they were damaged and needed to come off, when now I've discovered I can fix that in one wash with a pre-poo oiling and CWC.

I like having a thick hemline, especially since I wear my hair down often when I go out, so I've been keeping up with regular microtrims this semester, but summer break is about to come (where I'll only see family on a regular basis, and I can wear it up at work). I think I want to go without trimming until September, which will make 5 months of letting it grow in peace.
I will probably trim a little just before I start my fall semester so I can have a thicker hemline for back-to-school season. If I reach waist by then I'll trim back to waist.

Good luck, Haven! Letting your hair grow five months in peace is very doable. I am letting my hair grow in peace until December, 2019. If my ends are still healthy, I will continue on.


When I had bleached and SL hair I trimmed my hair every 6 weeks. When I started to grow it out I stretched it to 8 weeks - 3 months - 4 months and eventually 6 months in a span of 3 years. I was rather addicted to trimming because I really enjoyed the soft ends. Now I know better and what helped me was growing out my bleached hair almost entirely. My natural hair doesn't require that much upkeep and it also helps that I can tuck my ends away in a bun to protect them even more. 6 months is the number for me now but when all the bleach is gone, I think I can go even longer without a trim!

Good luck, cestlavie, six more months to all natural hair really isn't all that far away, and the reward will be lovely, healthy hair! I hope you will be able to go for an even longer time without a trim. I am hoping to do the same.

[luluj]

From trimmer to non-trimmer: is it possible?

So far, yes it is. I have not trimmed since February. :disco:

This is big, for me.:lol:

I have committed to stay the course until December, it is looking very promising.