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ynne
March 16th, 2019, 09:11 AM
Hello. :) I am writing this post with the hope that someone might have either suggestions to try... or an experience similar to mine? This was my introduction post (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=149287).

The situation:

So my hair is thick, there is a lot of it (i.e. when it was long I had trouble finding a hair tie that would hold all of it), it's wavy/curly (never straight, even with really short hair), it hates combing (as illustrated by the first picture...), tangles easily, and when it was past my shoulder blades, I could only wash it every 10-14 days. It was always dry and unmanageable the first few days, and only shortly before I had to wash it again, it started to get some nice definition. (Oh, and I did inherit it from my parents, but mom's hair is more wavy and manageable and dad's curly to coily hair is always short.)

Until a few months back – so for all of the pictures attached – I used just shampoo+conditioner (no styling products) and I chose examples mostly with my natural hair colour.

Right now my hair is a bit under chin length, only the very tips have some leftover bleaching and I dye it with henna. (I cannot quite figure out its porosity and I think henna might be confusing the results.)

My goal & steps I took so far:

Firstly and most importantly, I really want to help my hair be hydrated and healthy. Next I want to reduce frizz and fly-aways & as a consequence, hopefully also have better defined curls.

Things that don't seem to help much:

coconut oil, even if it's for hours
2-3 minutes of a conditioner
leave-in conditioner makes my hair greasy and dry at the same time

Things that made a difference:

serums (Biosilk Silk Therapy and damage-erasing serums) somewhat reduce frizz & flyaways
one hour of Balea Professional Locken 2In1 Haarbutter made my hair very smooth and silky but I don't know if it just coated it really well or actually helped?
washing less often
no combing when dry


If anyone took the time to read all of this (thank you!!), I would really appreciate any and all tips for what I could try next!


Edit, 23 March 2019

To try (writing here as a reference for myself):

WCC/CWC (C = conditioning, W = washing) ~recommended by lapushka, poli, lithostoic, Jo Ann, ...
oil or deep treatment before washing // rinse-out oil after washing & before conditioning ~milosmomma, spidermom, paulownia, lapushka, ...
travel-sized bottles to test products ~Jo Ann
safflower, avocado or almond oil instead of coconut oil ~paulownia, spidermom

Keep on doing:

testing CGM! ~desisparkles, blackgothicdoll and many others; I'm reading the book rn :)
squish to condish
no dry combing

paulownia
March 16th, 2019, 09:26 AM
Coconut oil doesn't agree well with high porosity, and your hair looks like pretty high porous. I would give a try to avocado or almond oil instead.
Pre poo treatments could make a difference ( f.ex a blend of your favourite conditioner or mask with honey and a few drops of some oil. Check also the recommended Snowymoons Moisturizing Treatment.
Using a good styling product, gel or mousse) without alcohol of course goes a long way for maintaining curl pattern.

lapushka
March 16th, 2019, 09:47 AM
First of all, you have gorgeous hair.

I am a 2b/c and wash weekly.

I use the WCC method to wash, because I have to use a sulfate shampoo and that can be a tad drying on the lengths, I use conditioner or even a mask (or combined) twice after my wash, an it's awesome for the lengths of the hair, esp. if you're dry there (which I am, I can't weigh it down enough).

That is why on top of washing I use the LOC/LCO method for styling, which does include a leave-in or curl cream of some kind.

If that is too heavy for you good old-fashioned mousse might work, mousse has come a long way!

Try looking into the "Not your mother's" line for shampoo/conditioner (I think it's sulfate-free)

Oh, and definitely ONLY detangle/brush/comb when the hair is in a wet or damp state; once it's dry, don't touch it, unless you finger detangle (separate a few strands to get sheds out).

Have you ever heard of the curly girl method. It is a book by Lorraine Massey and a MUST read for every wavy/curly head out there. Plenty of tips in there that you don't NEED to follow, but it will steer you in the right direction.

Good luck!

& Welcome again! :D

cjk
March 16th, 2019, 10:51 AM
As someone with wavy/curly hair I actually came in to suggest a diffuser. Takes me forever to dry my hair.

But then I realized that you meant your hair is dry.

Conditioner. Moisture!

Definitely read up on curly girl, but the quickest way to understand it is to strip your hair one last time with a clarifying shampoo, then apply massive, massive amounts of conditioner until your hair won't absorb any more, and then dry your hair in a way that doesn't pull out the texture.

And repeat. No sulfate or silicone shampoos afterwards, and it takes multiple conditioning treatments to get your hair rehydrated. Think improvement over weeks or months.

But as the condition of your hair improves and you embrace your natural texture, you find it much more beautiful.

ynne
March 16th, 2019, 11:36 AM
paulownia: I don't know if my hair has high porosity (it takes forever to dry, but that could be that it's thick, and it doesn't want to sink in a glass even with some poking, but that could be the recent henna application coating it), but thank you for the suggestions of different oils to try! I did not know about the Snowymoons Moisturizing Treatment, either. So thank you very much for those tips! I'm not sure if I can get pure aloe vera gel at the moment but the other treatments I can hopefully try very soon. :)

paulownia
March 16th, 2019, 11:55 AM
paulownia: I don't know if my hair has high porosity (it takes forever to dry, but that could be that it's thick, and it doesn't want to sink in a glass even with some poking, but that could be the recent henna application coating it)
The water test is not a very reliable one.
Anyhow curly dry hair is highly porous by definition... but there is always exception to the rule. I'm pretty sure my hair is of low porosity but it dries in 2 hours ;)

ynne
March 16th, 2019, 11:58 AM
lapushka:
Thank you so much for all of those tips and suggestions!! (The links in your signature are really helpful, too. c: )
Fun fact: I used to think I have to use a conditioner and then a shampoo. Then I've read somewhere about "co-wash" and I misunderstood it as using conditioner and shampoo at the same time (shampoo at the roots, conditioner everywhere else), and even after learning it means conditioner-only washing, I just kept on doing that. So I definitely need to try using a conditioner after!
The "Not your mother's" line does not seem to be available here, but maybe it will be in future; I'll write it down just in case. c:
As for CGM, I did not get my hands on the book yet, but it's actually what brought me here! My interest in haircare (and the decision to give my hair another try) came from people online talking about their hair transformations by changing their routine.

cjk:
I can see where that misunderstanding came from. :D
Thank you! That gives me some hope. Unfortunately, I have always used a conditioner, so I have to use it somehow differently/even more (??) than I have done before, as it does not seem to help. I will try to follow the above suggestion to use conditioner after shampoo, maybe that will have a stronger effect.

ynne
March 16th, 2019, 12:01 PM
I'm pretty sure my hair is of low porosity but it dries in 2 hours ;)

Interesting! Mine dried that fast maybe when I had a pixie cut. I am not sure what else I could do to figure out my porosity, besides perhaps following tips for high porosity for a while, then for low one, and see what works better...

Jo Ann
March 16th, 2019, 12:07 PM
I second Lapushka's routine! I modified the LOC to be only a leave-in conditioner followed by coconut oil, though.

As far as oils go, I can only use coconut oil when my hair is WET, never dry, as it makes my hair weighed down and crunchy. I use an oil blend (argan, sweet almond, avocado and grapeseed oils) I get from Wal-mart if my hair needs it between shampoos.

When I comb my hair, I use a wide-tooth (WT) wet-hair comb I've had for years, followed by brushing, so I'm not ripping through my hair when I brush.

It does take time to find the combination of shampoo, conditioner and other products that will work for your hair. I would advise trying travel sizes of shampoo and conditioner at first--they're smaller and cheaper and you won't get stuck with a lot of bottles of products from your search. If you try CWC (condition-wash-condition) or WCC (wash-condition-condition) as a cleansing routine for your hair, use Herbal Essences Hello Hydration conditioner as your second conditioner--it's the Holy Grail for many of us (thanks, Lapushka!) and it's a great way to offset the effects of shampoo/conditioner that do not work for your hair! The stuff is AWESOME!

cjk
March 16th, 2019, 12:12 PM
cjk:
I can see where that misunderstanding came from. :D
Thank you! That gives me some hope. Unfortunately, I have always used a conditioner, so I have to use it somehow differently/even more (??) than I have done before, as it does not seem to help. I will try to follow the above suggestion to use conditioner after shampoo, maybe that will have a stronger effect.

Saying that you use conditioner doesn't tell me much. How much, how often, and in what way? And does your conditioner contain silicones which are in the plastic family and coat your hairs?

My own hair soaks up more conditioner than you would ever imagine. This morning was a wash day for me and I used, probably, 1/2 cup of conditioner for my hair. I apply it at the start of my shower, a second coat halfway through as well, then rinse well and apply again. I then let it soak in and rinse poorly at the end...I keep it as a pseudo-leave-in.

I apply it until it stops soaking in. My hair is VERY thirsty.

ynne
March 16th, 2019, 01:06 PM
Jo Ann: Thank you for all the tips! The oil blend sounds nice. I've been only detangling my hair with my fingers but I think I should get the wide-tooth comb, eventually! Travel sized bottles is a great idea. c:
As for the Herbal Essence conditioner, it's sold out at the moment so I'll check in sometimes if they'll have it again! Luckily there is one company that buys them abroad and resells them here.

cjk: Thank you for sharing your routine. :) How long is your hair, for reference? (I can't access member profiles yet, sorry if the information is there!)
I use a different conditioner each time I run out so I can't tell if they all had silicones (I went for anything for dry, damaged and/or wavy hair), the last one I still need to use up does. I don't have an exact amount set, just until it's all coated and squishy, with lots and lots of water (squish to condish). I also got a balm (from Balea) that is without silicones.
And I was using shampoo and conditioner at the same time; I will be trying conditioner after shampoo.

blackgothicdoll
March 16th, 2019, 01:20 PM
I second cjk in giving curly girl a try. You don't have to follow it permanently or religiously, but use it as a 'reset' period to figure out your hair.

Fun anecdote, when I first went natural my hair was always crispy and I had literally no curl pattern, just frizz. I accidentally realized that my hair would curl after using a clarifying shampoo, but become a frizzy mess once I applied products. It wasn't until years later that I clarified several times and started over with no cones, heavy mineral oils, etc. Those ingredients dont come off from one wash, you need to continue to clarify and condition without those products and gradually remove the build up.

THEN you should be in a safer place to evaluate exactly what your hair wants, one product at a time. You can of course bring silicones back too, just don't forget to clarify.

The thing I'm not sure about at all is henna. Ive heard it can change porosity but I'm not an expert on any of that. Someone else can probably answer to that part.

cjk
March 16th, 2019, 01:43 PM
cjk: Thank you for sharing your routine. :) How long is your hair, for reference? (I can't access member profiles yet, sorry if the information is there!)

It's not, but many of us post photos frequently. The ones linked to Imgur should be visible to you. Curls make for some major shrinkage, though, so...

Today I braided, which should help even out my texture a bit.

https://i.imgur.com/8XqKDRq_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

ynne
March 16th, 2019, 02:11 PM
blackgothicdoll: I wish I could edit the first post to add the information I forgot; but as I only got to mention in one of my replies, I'm familiar with CGM & I'm slowly incorporating it in my regime. c: Thank you for confirming it's a good direction, if only to figure out what works and what doesn't! And thank you for sharing your experience, too, I would have thought one time of clarifying is enough to take away everything. Now I have a better idea of what could happen. :)

lapushka
March 16th, 2019, 02:25 PM
lapushka:
Thank you so much for all of those tips and suggestions!! (The links in your signature are really helpful, too. c:)
Fun fact: I used to think I have to use a conditioner and then a shampoo. Then I've read somewhere about "co-wash" and I misunderstood it as using conditioner and shampoo at the same time (shampoo at the roots, conditioner everywhere else), and even after learning it means conditioner-only washing, I just kept on doing that. So I definitely need to try using a conditioner after!
The "Not your mother's" line does not seem to be available here, but maybe it will be in future; I'll write it down just in case. c:
As for CGM, I did not get my hands on the book yet, but it's actually what brought me here! My interest in haircare (and the decision to give my hair another try) came from people online talking about their hair transformations by changing their routine.


CO-wash = washing with conditioner only or a designated CO-wash (they sell these in stores nowadays, less so in the EU than in the US)

There is a method called CWC, condition, wash, condition. You first put a conditioner on to protect your ends from the shampoo, then shampoo (scalp only, let suds run down), and then you put on your "final" conditioner.

I'm not sure what part of the world you're in. If you are willing to share that with us (no pressure), then perhaps it would be easier for us all to suggest products to you. :flower:

spidermom
March 16th, 2019, 02:26 PM
My hair is wavy/curly and high porosity. I have been using safflower oil as a pre-wash treatment to the bottom half of my length, and so far I would say that my hair holds moisture better than it did before. It's easy to overdo, though! Before I learned that about 1/4 teaspoon to each side was enough oil, I used more, and it wouldn't all wash out easily.

Corvana
March 16th, 2019, 03:15 PM
Have you tried squish to condish? It's where you put your conditioner in very last (but before any stylers like a gel or mousse or curl cream), and you just squish it out. Don't rinse with water!! Just make sure your hair is sopping wet at first with water and conditioner, then gently scrunch it out. Here's a video on it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jwtnn4H77bk

I started doing that, and it's done wonders! I don't even need to use a heavy conditioner anymore, as squish to condish conditions well enough for me. Your mileage may vary, of course, but it's certainly something to try!

ynne
March 16th, 2019, 03:34 PM
I'm a little overwhelmed (in a good way) by the huge amount of support & tips & shared experiences that you all sent my way, thank you, I did not expect it! :)

lapushka: I will try both CWC and WCC! Thanks again. c:
And oh, it's not a secret, I'm from the Czech republic! I mostly rely on dm stores for products (Balea, Alverde).

spidermom: Thank you for the oil recommendation! :)

Corvana: First of all, the bun in your profile picture looks so neat! But to your post: I use squish to condish to get the product in, but it seems I was doing it wrong (I put conditioner on my hair, shampoo on my scalp, let the conditioner sit for a bit as I massaged my head and then I added water and squish to condish, and finally, rinsed it off). I wonder if it will be more effective when I use it separatedly, after any cleansing and washing. So thank you for the tip! Also, it is a great video channel that I meant to revisit, so thank you for reminding me of it. c:

lapushka
March 16th, 2019, 03:42 PM
lapushka: I will try both CWC and WCC! Thanks again. c:
And oh, it's not a secret, I'm from the Czech republic! I mostly rely on dm stores for products (Balea, Alverde).

You're welcome! :D Ah DM, the German brands!

Corvana
March 16th, 2019, 04:45 PM
I'm a little overwhelmed (in a good way) by the huge amount of support & tips & shared experiences that you all sent my way, thank you, I did not expect it! :)

lapushka: I will try both CWC and WCC! Thanks again. c:
And oh, it's not a secret, I'm from the Czech republic! I mostly rely on dm stores for products (Balea, Alverde).

spidermom: Thank you for the oil recommendation! :)

Corvana: First of all, the bun in your profile picture looks so neat! But to your post: I use squish to condish to get the product in, but it seems I was doing it wrong (I put conditioner on my hair, shampoo on my scalp, let the conditioner sit for a bit as I massaged my head and then I added water and squish to condish, and finally, rinsed it off). I wonder if it will be more effective when I use it separatedly, after any cleansing and washing. So thank you for the tip! Also, it is a great video channel that I meant to revisit, so thank you for reminding me of it. c:

Thank you!

And I was doing it exactly the same way and when I saw that video I was like :agape: And now I do it properly and swear by it for sure.

lithostoic
March 16th, 2019, 08:57 PM
I suggest CWC! My hair is dry too and this has helped soooo much. You have beautiful hair.

ynne
March 17th, 2019, 09:23 AM
lithostoic, thank you!
Did it make a difference after the first few times you washed your hair that way? It may be a bit silly question, but I'm not sure how long to wait to see if it does or doesn't work for me... :/

lapushka
March 17th, 2019, 09:37 AM
lithostoic, thank you!
Did it make a difference after the first few times you washed your hair that way? It may be a bit silly question, but I'm not sure how long to wait to see if it does or doesn't work for me... :/

I don't know how often you wash now, if it still is weekly or so, I'd give it a few weeks to a month even. And be sure to clarify-wash at least once a month if you use butters/waxes/oils or silicones in your products.

ynne
March 17th, 2019, 09:43 AM
I don't know how often you wash now, if it still is weekly or so, I'd give it a few weeks to a month even. And be sure to clarify-wash at least once a month if you use butters/waxes/oils or silicones in your products.

Thank you! That is a good starting timeframe. I know some changes (especially health-restoring) can take a really long time to show some effects but this sounds great.
Oh, and because of the suggestions here, I used a clarifying shampoo yesterday (for the first time)! While I do not like the way it fades henna and dries my hair, it did feel instantly lighter and definitely cleaner. c:

poli
March 17th, 2019, 01:05 PM
lithostoic, thank you!
Did it make a difference after the first few times you washed your hair that way? It may be a bit silly question, but I'm not sure how long to wait to see if it does or doesn't work for me... :/

For me CWC was an instant improvement, right from the start. I started to wash this way when I had half of my hair weakened by bleach (dry and brittle) and was fighting with two different textures. Now that my hair is in good condition I don't notice the difference so much.

lithostoic
March 17th, 2019, 01:18 PM
For me personally it was clear from the start, and even clearer as I kept going.

ynne
March 17th, 2019, 02:30 PM
Thank you both! c: (And it's great you both found sth that works for you!!)
It's been a while since I was looking forward to the wash day.

lapushka
March 17th, 2019, 03:37 PM
I hope CWC does something for your hair! :)
Keep us posted! :D

desisparkles
March 17th, 2019, 04:35 PM
I have dryish wavy hair and I have been following the curly girl method for a year now. I would say my hair looked better within weeks of starting it but after 9 months wow, talk about a transformation. I also find that leaving in a good amount of conditioner or high moisture curl cream (not your mother's brand blue or pink bottle cream then scrunching it in) to my soaking wet hair helps tremendously with moisture. It does weigh my waves down so that by day 2 they are almost straightish with curves as opposed to day 1 where I have ringlets and spirals but to me moisture is more important than bouncy curls (although if i figure out how to do both that would be nice to know of course, hahah).

on a side note: thank you to the poster who mentioned coco oil may not be good for highly porous hair. I sure didn't know that one!

whiteisle
March 17th, 2019, 06:04 PM
I haven't read through the responses so I apologize in advance if I am repeating any advice you've received already. :) I'm currently growing mine out from a pixie, but prior to the cut, my hair had reached about BSL. It was dry, wavy, unruly....frankly aggravating as all get-out. And I had no idea how to "fix" it. I had tried everything and my hair seemed to hate everything, especially coconut oil. Long story short, I gave up and cut it off. Now, I'm not telling you to do that. But, I'll tell you what I'm doing now that seems to be working well (bear in mind my hair is short, virgin, and has had no heat whatsoever in two years). I bought the Curly Girl Handbook by Lorraine Massey and have found it extremely helpful in helping me understand my hair and what to do with it. I wash using a designated co-wash (As I Am) and condition doing the squish-to-condish method with a CG approved conditioner. Afterwards, I use a cream styler. My hair looks the best it ever has. I also will deep condition once a week with a quality (CG approved) hair mask/deep conditioner and heat cap.

Again, my hair is pretty short, so I don't have any damage to deal with at this time, BUT I have seen a marked improvement in it's condition and behavior since employing these products and methods. Regarding oiling, I've stopped. Honestly, my hair just could never get on board with it no matter what type I tried. It never did anything except make it mad. :justy:

I've also watched a ton of youtubers on curly/wavy hair but the two that I seemed to have gleaned the most from are India Batson and Bianca Renee - two incredible young ladies who are a wealth of information. They can provide you with lots of tips and advice regarding products and techniques.

I hope some of that helps. :flower:

lapushka
March 18th, 2019, 09:36 AM
I've also watched a ton of youtubers on curly/wavy hair but the two that I seemed to have gleaned the most from are India Batson and Bianca Renee - two incredible young ladies who are a wealth of information. They can provide you with lots of tips and advice regarding products and techniques.

I would recommend the channel MAD curls (mother & daughter curls) as well. They test out products so much, weekly!

milosmomma
March 18th, 2019, 09:53 AM
I've seen oiling suggested as a prewash but has the ROO method been suggested? Me, my son and daughter are all in the 2 category but for all of us with roo we get better waves definition and definitely way more moisture retention. So much that can I can get another day out of my wash. I used to be an every other day washer, would feel the need to wash again when my ends would get dry, but with roo I get at least 3 days, sometimes 4 before I have to wash. And with roo it hasn't been dry ends driving me to wash, it'sbeen that my scalp will be oily before my ends even think about being dry.

lapushka
March 18th, 2019, 10:40 AM
I've seen oiling suggested as a prewash but has the ROO method been suggested? Me, my son and daughter are all in the 2 category but for all of us with roo we get better waves definition and definitely way more moisture retention. So much that can I can get another day out of my wash. I used to be an every other day washer, would feel the need to wash again when my ends would get dry, but with roo I get at least 3 days, sometimes 4 before I have to wash. And with roo it hasn't been dry ends driving me to wash, it'sbeen that my scalp will be oily before my ends even think about being dry.

I'll put my reply here, because the link to the ROO thread (rinse-out oil) is in my signature.
Just FYI.

HTH! :)

ynne
March 18th, 2019, 12:54 PM
desisparkles, I had a bad experience with leaving in any amount of conditioner, as it just seems to pile up on my hair and make it greasy (and the same happened with the smallest amount of coconut oil), but maybe I could find some lighter conditioner... hm. I do feel you on the moisture! Thank you for sharing your routine. :)

whiteisle, thank you! When I had short hair, the dryness was never an issue; with a pixie, it looked nice and smooth right after washing. :( That is one reason I have to fight really hard to resist the temptation to just cut it all off again! I know it would solve the issue, but like you, I'm trying to grow it out again... my hair also doesn't do well with coconut oil (and it's very validating to read about others who also don't benefit from it).
I will look for CG approved products; it's a bit hard here, the curly-hair-specific brands just don't exist here, but I already found one (1) product (hair butter) that fits the criteria, so if so many people say it helped them, I'll keep on searching! :)
I hope your hair stays in this condition (or improves even more!) and makes you happier this time. c:
And thank you for the youtube channel tips, I did not know either of them! I'll definitely check them out. :)

ynne
March 18th, 2019, 01:01 PM
milosmomma, thank you for the tip! It is my first time hearing about it. :) (And now, thanks to lapushka, I even know what it means. :D) It sounds like it addresses my problem, definitely worth a try! It's also great to hear that it works for all of you. :)


I would recommend the channel MAD curls (mother & daughter curls) as well. They test out products so much, weekly!

I'll put my reply here, because the link to the ROO thread (rinse-out oil) is in my signature.
Just FYI.
HTH! :)

Thank you! (There are so many abbreviations to figure out. :D)

lapushka
March 18th, 2019, 02:20 PM
Thank you! (There are so many abbreviations to figure out. :D)

Oh FYI = for your informtion.
And HTH = hope that helps.

HTH! ;)

milosmomma
March 18th, 2019, 05:32 PM
milosmomma, thank you for the tip! It is my first time hearing about it. :) (And now, thanks to lapushka, I even know what it means. :D) It sounds like it addresses my problem, definitely worth a try! It's also great to hear that it works for all of you. :)




Thank you! (There are so many abbreviations to figure out. :D)

Thank you for providing the link Lapushka!
Sorry ynne, I didn't even realize that I hadn't deciphered the abbreviation for you! ROO=rinse out oil :lol: There are so many abbreviations around here it's like a code language.

Panthera
March 19th, 2019, 03:07 AM
desisparkles, I had a bad experience with leaving in any amount of conditioner, as it just seems to pile up on my hair and make it greasy (and the same happened with the smallest amount of coconut oil), but maybe I could find some lighter conditioner... hm. I do feel you on the moisture! Thank you for sharing your routine. :)


What kind of conditioner did you use? It's probably just not right for your hair. Your hair type looks quite similar to mine, most leave-in conditioners pile up on my hair too. My hair hates coconut oil as a leave-in, have to be very careful with shea butter too. You could try diluting the conditioner with water or just keep looking for a better one. It can be a lot of trial and error but please don't give up, for me a leave-in conditioner made my hair 1000000x better. I looove Kinky curly Knot today conditioner, I've been looking for a cheaper alternative but nothing is even close to it.

lapushka
March 19th, 2019, 10:07 AM
What kind of conditioner did you use? It's probably just not right for your hair. Your hair type looks quite similar to mine, most leave-in conditioners pile up on my hair too. My hair hates coconut oil as a leave-in, have to be very careful with shea butter too. You could try diluting the conditioner with water or just keep looking for a better one. It can be a lot of trial and error but please don't give up, for me a leave-in conditioner made my hair 1000000x better. I looove Kinky curly Knot today conditioner, I've been looking for a cheaper alternative but nothing is even close to it.

There was one that came close, but it's just like me to now forget what brand it was. :( Darn!

blackgothicdoll
March 19th, 2019, 10:10 AM
What kind of conditioner did you use? It's probably just not right for your hair. Your hair type looks quite similar to mine, most leave-in conditioners pile up on my hair too. My hair hates coconut oil as a leave-in, have to be very careful with shea butter too. You could try diluting the conditioner with water or just keep looking for a better one. It can be a lot of trial and error but please don't give up, for me a leave-in conditioner made my hair 1000000x better. I looove Kinky curly Knot today conditioner, I've been looking for a cheaper alternative but nothing is even close to it.

Shea Moisture Baobab Detangling Leave-in - I can't remember how much I bought it for but Amazon says it's $6 for 8oz. Unfortunately, I just cannot bear the smell of it, but I'm going to try to use it up before repurchasing any KCKT.

lapushka
March 19th, 2019, 10:27 AM
Shea Moisture Baobab Detangling Leave-in - I can't remember how much I bought it for but Amazon says it's $6 for 8oz. Unfortunately, I just cannot bear the smell of it, but I'm going to try to use it up before repurchasing any KCKT.

I'm trying my hardest to remember what someone likened it to. But it wasn't a SM product... Hmm. I hope I remember. :hmm:

blackgothicdoll
March 19th, 2019, 10:46 AM
I'm trying my hardest to remember what someone likened it to. But it wasn't a SM product... Hmm. I hope I remember. :hmm:

I hope you do too! Please come let us know if you do, I go through KCKT pretty quickly for the price... not fun. Lol.

Liosan
March 19th, 2019, 11:36 AM
For me As I Am leave-in conditioner compares to KCKT :) It’s a little lighter (which is perfect for me). But I find the slip at least as good, as well as the smooth feeling of hair. With both the KCKT and the As I Am I only need to use a small amount compared to other conditioners.
I use it as a rinse-out conditioner that I don’t completely rinse out, if that makes sense.
Your experience may be different ofcourse. But it could be worth a try!

ynne
March 19th, 2019, 11:42 PM
There are so many abbreviations around here it's like a code language.

That is true. :D

---

Panthera, thank you for the validation! The latest conditioner (as a leave-in) I tried is from Balea, I will keep on trying though.
If your hair is similar, do you have some photos of how it looked before you knew how to look after it & after? I'd be really curious!
(Kinky Curly Knot is not available here, but the price would be an issue for me anyways. :/ Good luck finding some alternatives, though!!)

---

Shea Moisture here is about 3x the price I'm willing and able to pay rn, but maybe as the last option... and As I Am (also available in exactly one eshop, as far as I can tell) is in just about that price category. :( I wish they sold travel-sized bottles of those, hm. I think I will have to use some more readily-available brand so it'll just be more of trial and error... I had high hopes for Timotei as one curly-haired person swears by it, but they only had shampoos, so maybe next time. I did have issues with my hair for so many years, a little longer time of waiting and figuring it out won't hurt. :)

Anyways, blackgothicdoll, lapushka and Liosan, thank you!

Reservechic
March 20th, 2019, 06:41 AM
I would recommend the channel MAD curls (mother & daughter curls) as well. They test out products so much, weekly!

I actually watch their videos all the time! Schucks, I've even won 1 of their contests before! Got some free DevaCurl products, for me to enjoy! They are such a super cute mother daughter dup. Plus, the videos they put out are really great for anyone with naturally textured hair to watch and learn from.

Super glad that you mentioned them lapushka!

lapushka
March 20th, 2019, 07:51 AM
I actually watch their videos all the time! Schucks, I've even won 1 of their contests before! Got some free DevaCurl products, for me to enjoy! They are such a super cute mother daughter dup. Plus, the videos they put out are really great for anyone with naturally textured hair to watch and learn from.

Super glad that you mentioned them lapushka!

Yes, I especially like it when they go... "water". ;) :lol:

ynne
March 23rd, 2019, 09:47 PM
It was time for a wash day and with that, an update. :) (It's a little intimidating to post the results :undecided as I have no idea what I did right/wrong and what I could have done better, but that's all the more reason to ask for advice from the more experienced!)


https://i.ibb.co/fCZNxrG/190324.jpg
Conditioned > gel > after.

So I've tried a combination of tips here:


(1) little bit of conditioner so I could detangle with fingers, followed by hair treatment (butter) + rinsed
(2) little bit of shampoo (only on scalp) + rinsed
(3) conditioner, squish to condish until seaweed consistency + just slightly rinsed
(4) hair gel, left to air dry (meanwhile I had to walk one of our dogs), then scrunched out

I wanted to try including an oil, but I don't have any at the moment. Conditioner should be CG approved (SYOSS Curls & Waves), hair butter (Balea Professional 2in1 Hair Butter Curls) should be OK too, gel and shampoo are not and I will be looking for a replacement when I run out of them.

I felt like the gel may not have enough of a hold, as some of the hair started to "escape" very soon. It also didn't do much for my hair ends, even though I made sure to put extra conditioner and gel on them. They are the first to lose any hint of definition, though most of my hair is already starting to look dry.

lapushka
March 24th, 2019, 05:57 PM
It was time for a wash day and with that, an update. :) (It's a little intimidating to post the results :undecided as I have no idea what I did right/wrong and what I could have done better, but that's all the more reason to ask for advice from the more experienced!)


https://i.ibb.co/fCZNxrG/190324.jpg
Conditioned > gel > after.

So I've tried a combination of tips here:


(1) little bit of conditioner so I could detangle with fingers, followed by hair treatment (butter) + rinsed
(2) little bit of shampoo (only on scalp) + rinsed
(3) conditioner, squish to condish until seaweed consistency + just slightly rinsed
(4) hair gel, left to air dry (meanwhile I had to walk one of our dogs), then scrunched out

I wanted to try including an oil, but I don't have any at the moment. Conditioner should be CG approved (SYOSS Curls & Waves), hair butter (Balea Professional 2in1 Hair Butter Curls) should be OK too, gel and shampoo are not and I will be looking for a replacement when I run out of them.

I felt like the gel may not have enough of a hold, as some of the hair started to "escape" very soon. It also didn't do much for my hair ends, even though I made sure to put extra conditioner and gel on them. They are the first to lose any hint of definition, though most of my hair is already starting to look dry.

I tried going CG and silicone-free.

It didn't work.

Then I realized good results don't depend on the products, rather the method (CO, CWC WCC), and the technique in styling.

But that's something I learned by experimenting. Currently you're still going through that phase, but just one bit of advice? Don't focus on the products too too much. When you get a good product, silicone laden or silicone free, stick to it, no matter what CG says.

Corvana
March 24th, 2019, 10:24 PM
It was time for a wash day and with that, an update. :) (It's a little intimidating to post the results :undecided as I have no idea what I did right/wrong and what I could have done better, but that's all the more reason to ask for advice from the more experienced!)


https://i.ibb.co/fCZNxrG/190324.jpg
Conditioned > gel > after.

So I've tried a combination of tips here:


(1) little bit of conditioner so I could detangle with fingers, followed by hair treatment (butter) + rinsed
(2) little bit of shampoo (only on scalp) + rinsed
(3) conditioner, squish to condish until seaweed consistency + just slightly rinsed
(4) hair gel, left to air dry (meanwhile I had to walk one of our dogs), then scrunched out

I wanted to try including an oil, but I don't have any at the moment. Conditioner should be CG approved (SYOSS Curls & Waves), hair butter (Balea Professional 2in1 Hair Butter Curls) should be OK too, gel and shampoo are not and I will be looking for a replacement when I run out of them.

I felt like the gel may not have enough of a hold, as some of the hair started to "escape" very soon. It also didn't do much for my hair ends, even though I made sure to put extra conditioner and gel on them. They are the first to lose any hint of definition, though most of my hair is already starting to look dry.

Oh! The youtuber I linked you for the squish to condish has a newer video about doing double gel? Let me go find it...


https://youtu.be/6aH_ZjKSmoM

I've tried it with my less-than-stellar gel, and it's really helped it work better!

Jo Ann
March 25th, 2019, 01:13 AM
It was time for a wash day and with that, an update. :) (It's a little intimidating to post the results :undecided as I have no idea what I did right/wrong and what I could have done better, but that's all the more reason to ask for advice from the more experienced!)


https://i.ibb.co/fCZNxrG/190324.jpg
Conditioned > gel > after.

So I've tried a combination of tips here:

(1) little bit of conditioner so I could detangle with fingers, followed by hair treatment (butter) + rinsed
(2) little bit of shampoo (only on scalp) + rinsed
(3) conditioner, squish to condish until seaweed consistency + just slightly rinsed
(4) hair gel, left to air dry (meanwhile I had to walk one of our dogs), then scrunched out

I wanted to try including an oil, but I don't have any at the moment. Conditioner should be CG approved (SYOSS Curls & Waves), hair butter (Balea Professional 2in1 Hair Butter Curls) should be OK too, gel and shampoo are not and I will be looking for a replacement when I run out of them.

I felt like the gel may not have enough of a hold, as some of the hair started to "escape" very soon. It also didn't do much for my hair ends, even though I made sure to put extra conditioner and gel on them. They are the first to lose any hint of definition, though most of my hair is already starting to look dry.

If I may make a suggestion or two...

I would try one thing at a time and see how it works for you, incorporating more products/tricks as you work through your journey. Some things you will see work for you immediately (such as a conditioner or shampoo), others might take some time to work out the kinks before you decide it's for you or not (such as oil--what type, how much to use, etc).

FWIW, I went almost 60 years :shocked: before I was not only able to find products that worked well with my hair, but finding a routine that worked best for me overall.

My hair is dry and wavy, but it never dawned on me that I could use two conditioners after shampooing to give it the moisture it needs. It was almost two months before I found how much coconut oil was enough for my hair after shampooing (but not quite one month to realize that my hair did NOT like coconut oil after it's dry). I use a modified CG after-shampoo routine to help my hair retain moisture--I use just a leave-in conditioner, followed by coconut oil--my hair can take it or leave it as far as using a curling lotion after I use the oil when it's wet.

What I'm saying is that there will be a learning curve when finding ways to make your hair (and you) happy--don't try too many things at one time. :flower:

ynne
March 25th, 2019, 02:35 PM
I tried going CG and silicone-free.

It didn't work.

Then I realized good results don't depend on the products, rather the method (CO, CWC WCC), and the technique in styling.

But that's something I learned by experimenting. Currently you're still going through that phase, but just one bit of advice? Don't focus on the products too too much. When you get a good product, silicone laden or silicone free, stick to it, no matter what CG says.

Thank you c:
I've read that strictly-CG ways don't work for all hair (case in point!), but also that I should just try it for a while, as I figure out what does and doesn't work for me. I guess it helps to have some guidelines when there are too many options :confused:
So I agree with you and I will try to not let it restrict me too much. :)

ynne
March 25th, 2019, 02:37 PM
Oh! The youtuber I linked you for the squish to condish has a newer video about doing double gel? Let me go find it...


https://youtu.be/6aH_ZjKSmoM

I've tried it with my less-than-stellar gel, and it's really helped it work better!

Thank you!! I will have to try that next time. :o I still have some gel left and I would not want to throw it away!

ynne
March 25th, 2019, 02:44 PM
If I may make a suggestion or two...

I would try one thing at a time and see how it works for you, incorporating more products/tricks as you work through your journey. Some things you will see work for you immediately (such as a conditioner or shampoo), others might take some time to work out the kinks before you decide it's for you or not (such as oil--what type, how much to use, etc).

FWIW, I went almost 60 years :shocked: before I was not only able to find products that worked well with my hair, but finding a routine that worked best for me overall.

My hair is dry and wavy, but it never dawned on me that I could use two conditioners after shampooing to give it the moisture it needs. It was almost two months before I found how much coconut oil was enough for my hair after shampooing (but not quite one month to realize that my hair did NOT like coconut oil after it's dry). I use a modified CG after-shampoo routine to help my hair retain moisture--I use just a leave-in conditioner, followed by coconut oil--my hair can take it or leave it as far as using a curling lotion after I use the oil when it's wet.

What I'm saying is that there will be a learning curve when finding ways to make your hair (and you) happy--don't try too many things at one time. :flower:

Re: making suggestions, yes and any time, please. :o

You are right... if I try everything at once, it will be harder to find out what caused it to (not) work, right? :/ This time I switched around the order of washing (from, I guess, C+W to CWC), but also used a new conditioner. It's hard to take it slow and one thing at a time, but ah, I will try. :)

My mom completely changed her hair routine just before her 60, and her hair is doing great now, too. :) (If only it would stop tangling! :D) It's really nice to see people making progress and being happy with their hair, no matter when they got there.

Thank you! ♥

lapushka
March 25th, 2019, 04:27 PM
Thank you c:
I've read that strictly-CG ways don't work for all hair (case in point!), but also that I should just try it for a while, as I figure out what does and doesn't work for me. I guess it helps to have some guidelines when there are too many options :confused:
So I agree with you and I will try to not let it restrict me too much. :)

Yes! That was my point.

But you gotta experiment, it's just normal when you first get here. ;)

ynne
April 7th, 2019, 12:55 PM
Update:

After clarifying my hair, I wanted to repeat a treatment that felt OK on my hair in past (conditioner + some olive oil + tiny teeny amount of honey [honey feels great on my hair, but I cannot stand even a hint of stickiness], until it got a creamy consistency), and as a new thing, I added like 1,5 drops of castor oil.
I washed it out with regular shampoo applied only to my scalp. (But I have chin-length hair.)
Styling and air drying was the same as usual.

When it was fully dry, my hair was really shiny and kind of bouncy, but to me, it felt oily. My better half said it doesn't feel oily, and that instead it feels and looks like freshly washed hair, and I had no one else to ask at the moment.
I considered washing my hair again, but since over-washing just dries it out, I've decided to leave it alone.
The next day, my hair felt less oily, and very hydrated! It didn't have much definition & did have tons of flyaways, but somehow, it kept the squeaky clean feel of post-clarifying hair along with shininess.
On day 4 I had to wet my hair again and squish in some conditioner because the ends started to look dry. (That worked a bit.)
Now it's day 5 and my hair feels dry again, but I really don't want to wash it any time soon, so I'm leaving it alone until my scalp needs to be washed.

But I have a good feeling about the castor oil, if I can manage to get a small drop out of it the next time, or I could cut down on the olive oil (there wasn't much to begin with)...

Wendyclaire
April 7th, 2019, 05:56 PM
This doesn’t work for me. I’ve tried it several times and it turns it into a greasy mess. Everyone’s hair is different and I can’t use very many products. I’ve tried taking advice about moisture moisture and more moisture but just a wash and argon oil works best for me!

littlestarface
April 7th, 2019, 10:12 PM
Oh! The youtuber I linked you for the squish to condish has a newer video about doing double gel? Let me go find it...


https://youtu.be/6aH_ZjKSmoM

I've tried it with my less-than-stellar gel, and it's really helped it work better!

She has the prettiest waves and it looks so much easier doing all these steps with short hair. Long hair is such a pain sometimes.

ynne
April 11th, 2019, 03:06 PM
Update:

After clarifying my hair, I wanted to repeat a treatment that felt OK on my hair in past (conditioner + some olive oil + tiny teeny amount of honey [honey feels great on my hair, but I cannot stand even a hint of stickiness], until it got a creamy consistency), and as a new thing, I added like 1,5 drops of castor oil.
I washed it out with regular shampoo applied only to my scalp. (But I have chin-length hair.)
Styling and air drying was the same as usual.

When it was fully dry, my hair was really shiny and kind of bouncy, but to me, it felt oily. My better half said it doesn't feel oily, and that instead it feels and looks like freshly washed hair, and I had no one else to ask at the moment.
I considered washing my hair again, but since over-washing just dries it out, I've decided to leave it alone.
The next day, my hair felt less oily, and very hydrated! It didn't have much definition & did have tons of flyaways, but somehow, it kept the squeaky clean feel of post-clarifying hair along with shininess.
On day 4 I had to wet my hair again and squish in some conditioner because the ends started to look dry. (That worked a bit.)
Now it's day 5 and my hair feels dry again, but I really don't want to wash it any time soon, so I'm leaving it alone until my scalp needs to be washed.

But I have a good feeling about the castor oil, if I can manage to get a small drop out of it the next time, or I could cut down on the olive oil (there wasn't much to begin with)...
Another update:

On day 9, I repeated (without clarifying) the above treatment, but rinsed it out thoroughly. Unfortunately it did not have the same effect anymore even though I did leave in some conditioner. :c
So maybe my hair does need to keep some of the oil. But it seems to be such a thin line between dry and over-oiled.

*

If anyone is reading this, how do you get oil to your hair between washes without weighting it down or making it greasy?

Jo Ann
April 12th, 2019, 12:22 AM
You experiment with different oils. Some can be found in the cooking oil section (olive, coconut, grapeseed, etc) and others will be in the hair care section (jojoba and the like).

An eyedropper can help until you are better able to judge how much oil your hair will tolerate. An eyedropper, too, is much easier to use than trying to "tip" out a drop or two of oil. Eyedroppers are cheap! You should be able to find them in the pharmacy section of your store. Failing that, maybe a small bottle, like an empty eyedrop bottle can help, especially with larger containers of oil.

ynne
April 12th, 2019, 01:57 AM
You experiment with different oils. Some can be found in the cooking oil section (olive, coconut, grapeseed, etc) and others will be in the hair care section (jojoba and the like).

An eyedropper can help until you are better able to judge how much oil your hair will tolerate. An eyedropper, too, is much easier to use than trying to "tip" out a drop or two of oil. Eyedroppers are cheap! You should be able to find them in the pharmacy section of your store. Failing that, maybe a small bottle, like an empty eyedrop bottle can help, especially with larger containers of oil.

Thank you! I'm hoping to figure out a better ratio of olive+castor oil, as coconut oil never worked for me and I'd rather not buy another one, unless I'd have another use for them as well. But I did read good things about grapeseed, jojoba etc. :) So maybe in the future!
Oh, and the castor oil bottle has an eyedropper, but I did not realize I could get another such bottle for other purposes. :) I bet I could find/get an empty one! Thank you for the suggestions. :)