Conditioner = Frizz???

[blackgothicdoll]

Ever since I went natural, I realized that my hair looks its best after shampooing. Once I condition or deep condition, I end up with a ton of frizz. It never bothered me because I always straightened, and now I always stretch, but I imagine my hair would be a lot easier to deal with if I figured out how to make it frizz less after washing.

Is it even legal to not condition hair after washing??

This seems to happen regardless of what conditioner I use. Some conditioners the effect is not as bad as others, but it seems that most, if not all cause hair to frizz more than it did after I shampooed. :/

[enting]

That's fascinating!
Yes it is legal to not condition hair after washing. I've been using vinegar rinses for years instead of conditioner most of the time, so maybe that's still considered "using conditioner" but most of the time I do not use anything out of a bottle labeled a conditioner.
If your hair is happier without it, then it's happier without it! It would be really interesting to figure out why, I think, but it's totally legal :D.

[lithostoic]

That's so strange. I wonder if it overmoisturizes your hair?

[lapushka]

Ever since I went natural, I realized that my hair looks its best after shampooing. Once I condition or deep condition, I end up with a ton of frizz. It never bothered me because I always straightened, and now I always stretch, but I imagine my hair would be a lot easier to deal with if I figured out how to make it frizz less after washing.

Is it even legal to not condition hair after washing??

This seems to happen regardless of what conditioner I use. Some conditioners the effect is not as bad as others, but it seems that most, if not all cause hair to frizz more than it did after I shampooed. :/

You need to "style" it after shampooing and conditioning. You can't just wash, condition and then leave it alone to dry without any products in that is a sure guarantee for a total frizzball.

I totally recommend you watch the channel MAD curls on YT. They are a mother & daughter (solid type 3), one has short hair and the other long, and they do deep treatments, stylers etc. Mix it ups (across brands), and within one line, etc.

Also "A love 4 me" on YT (type 4) gives great tips and does wash n goes often.

[blackgothicdoll]

That's fascinating!
Yes it is legal to not condition hair after washing. I've been using vinegar rinses for years instead of conditioner most of the time, so maybe that's still considered "using conditioner" but most of the time I do not use anything out of a bottle labeled a conditioner.
If your hair is happier without it, then it's happier without it! It would be really interesting to figure out why, I think, but it's totally legal :D.

That's where I'm unsure. It's pretty dry after shampooing, though I wonder if going straight to leave-in would get rid of the dryness. It's a lot softer after conditioner, just frizzy.


That's so strange. I wonder if it overmoisturizes your hair?

I'm really not sure. Usually my hair loses frizz when gaining moisture (i.e. soaking wet hair has no frizz at all). Maybe I need to start looking at the ingredients in my conditioners, there must be something in there that's weird.


You need to "style" it after shampooing and conditioning. You can't just wash, condition and then leave it alone to dry without any products in that is a sure guarantee for a total frizzball.

I totally recommend you watch the channel MAD curls on YT. They are a mother & daughter (solid type 3), one has short hair and the other long, and they do deep treatments, stylers etc. Mix it ups (across brands), and within one line, etc.

Also "A love 4 me" on YT (type 4) gives great tips and does wash n goes often.

I don't leave it alone to dry, I always braid up my hair and let it dry in braids. :)

Nevertheless, it's an odd thing that I notice and I figure just about any styling would be easier without frizz. Once I add my leave-in and do my braids, of course there's no frizz at all. But that in between session of taming the beast is kind of agitating lol.

I actually am subscribed to MAD curls and I love them haha. I don't do wash-and-goes at all though.... I might when my hair gets longer, but for now I just don't like wearing my hair out.

[spidermom]

My hair is usually most frizzy the day after washing it. I figure it's because there's nothing adding weight to those shorter newer hairs.

[lapushka]

I don't leave it alone to dry, I always braid up my hair and let it dry in braids. :)

Nevertheless, it's an odd thing that I notice and I figure just about any styling would be easier without frizz. Once I add my leave-in and do my braids, of course there's no frizz at all. But that in between session of taming the beast is kind of agitating lol.

I actually am subscribed to MAD curls and I love them haha. I don't do wash-and-goes at all though.... I might when my hair gets longer, but for now I just don't like wearing my hair out.

Doing wash 'n goes is not easy for some people, I recognize that all too well. Just thought those channels might help you as the mother has shorter hair and seems to do pretty well with the hair "out". I think there's one video where they left it to dry without any product in (and you do need to weigh it down heavy with product, a leave-in is probably not gonna do) and POOF!

[H o n є y ❤]

Are you saying you condition your hair, add a leave-in and then braid it up with no styler? If you do that, it's going to be frizzy. Our hair is naturally frizzy because it grows out as an afro. When you hair is soaking wet, the curls will show more because the heaviness of the water brings out the curls and weighs the hair down. You have to use something with some type of hold to help it stay that way.

[cjk]

Did you do a final clarifying wash?

Conditioner only works if it's able to get into the hair and the only way to get rid of silicone deposits is a sulfate cleanser.

Off the top of my head that's what I would suggest.

[blackgothicdoll]

Are you saying you condition your hair, add a leave-in and then braid it up with no styler? If you do that, it's going to be frizzy. Our hair is naturally frizzy because it grows out as an afro. When you hair is soaking wet, the curls will show more because the heaviness of the water brings out the curls and weighs the hair down. You have to use something with some type of hold to help it stay that way.


Noo not at all. I'm saying after I shampoo I have not so much frizz, after I condition, I get a lot of frizz. Once I style I have no frizz (I use a leave-in, whipped shea butter and oil - LCO). But styling frizzy hair is still difficult, can cause more ssks and takes longer to try to tame the hair.

[lapushka]

Noo not at all. I'm saying after I shampoo I have not so much frizz, after I condition, I get a lot of frizz. Once I style I have no frizz (I use a leave-in, whipped shea butter and oil - LCO). But styling frizzy hair is still difficult, can cause more ssks and takes longer to try to tame the hair.

That is odd. What conditioner do you use? Maybe it's the product?

[akurah]

There's no harm in shampoo only if that works for you. It sounds like it does.

[H o n є y ❤]

Noo not at all. I'm saying after I shampoo I have not so much frizz, after I condition, I get a lot of frizz. Once I style I have no frizz (I use a leave-in, whipped shea butter and oil - LCO). But styling frizzy hair is still difficult, can cause more ssks and takes longer to try to tame the hair.
Oh, okay. Gotcha. Im curious, what kind of conditioners do you use?

[blackgothicdoll]

Did you do a final clarifying wash?

Conditioner only works if it's able to get into the hair and the only way to get rid of silicone deposits is a sulfate cleanser.

Off the top of my head that's what I would suggest.

Hmm, I don't remember the last time I clarified so it could be that. I usually try to use a sulfate shampoo once or twice a month, but I'm very forgetful and need to start writing down when I do. Now I don't use a lot of silicones at all, though I'm not 100% cone free. But the ones I use, rarely are amodimethicone and cyclomethicone. Then there's mineral oil, which could be a culprit. I'll be sure to clarify next wash and see what happens.


That is odd. What conditioner do you use? Maybe it's the product?

I use a few different conditioners, each seem to cause frizz. Most recently I've been using these conditioner bars I bought from Etsy (ended up with more than I needed and now i'm trying to use them up): https://www.etsy.com/listing/580432237/big-conditioner-bar-12-essential-oil?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=qua+organics&ref=sr_gallery-1-3&organic_search_click=1&bes=1

The only thing that sticks out there is glycerin, I don't like it as a leave in but I thought it was fine in a conditioner.

Then I use the Herbal Essences Bio Renew conditioners, also not my favorite but I'm trying to use those up, too. The conditioner I used today was the Beauty Love and Planet Tonka and Tumeric, I couldn't figure out what could be in that one that could cause so much frizz, but that was the worst so far.

So basically I've been trying different conditioners but I haven't really gotten rid of the frizz factor.


Oh, okay. Gotcha. Im curious, what kind of conditioners do you use?

[lapushka]

The "bars" may be doing it. Maybe try using a regular conditioner (from a bottle or a tub) and see how that compares. Did you used to have this issue, before the bars.

[blackgothicdoll]

The "bars" may be doing it. Maybe try using a regular conditioner (from a bottle or a tub) and see how that compares. Did you used to have this issue, before the bars.


Unfortunately, I really can't remember. I have such a hard time remembering what products work for me and what don't. I've been using those bars for almost a year now, I think? And before that I used Mane and Tail conditioner (The Original), I'd have to use it again to fully remember but I don't recall it causing frizz - but it was not moisturizing or slippy enough for my hair and has protein in it which I can't use too often.

Before that year, I always straightened my hair, and I do remember my hair was always massively frizzy after conditioning/deep conditioning but I didn't care because I was just going to fry it into submission anyways (my 'official' hair journey only started a year ago, on the 31st :o ). So now that I think about it, I don't think I ever found "the one" when it comes to conditioner! Though somehow I have soooo many bottles of conditioner and many I don't like, I think I did give up because I kept getting 'misses' and ending up buried in bottles of conditioner.

[lapushka]

I would get a bottle of Herbal Essences Hello Hydration. Clarify wash (to get residue of the bars out), then use the HE HH. See what that does. HE HH is the most moisturizing conditioner I know of, so that is why I am talking about it here.

[blackgothicdoll]

I would get a bottle of Herbal Essences Hello Hydration. Clarify wash (to get residue of the bars out), then use the HE HH. See what that does. HE HH is the most moisturizing conditioner I know of, so that is why I am talking about it here.

Alright, I will grab a small bottle and give it a try. I used it many years ago but don't remember.

But as a question, do you think the bars are causing residue that would require a sulfate rinse (I assume that's what you mean by clarify wash because I use a shampoo every wash)? They don't have any cones, though they do have stuff like cocoa butter and shea butter. I also use a good deal of shea butter on my hair, and lots of oils... should I be using sulfate washes more often than once a month? I'm starting to wonder if I'm actually getting build up even without cones.

[lapushka]

Alright, I will grab a small bottle and give it a try. I used it many years ago but don't remember.

But as a question, do you think the bars are causing residue that would require a sulfate rinse (I assume that's what you mean by clarify wash because I use a shampoo every wash)? They don't have any cones, though they do have stuff like cocoa butter and shea butter. I also use a good deal of shea butter on my hair, and lots of oils... should I be using sulfate washes more often than once a month? I'm starting to wonder if I'm actually getting build up even without cones.

About once a month sounds about right with all those butters & oils and then the bars (glycerine).

Maybe it's just not clarifying enough?

Just throwing possibilities out there.

[frostedeyes]

I find that not conditioning my hair makes it extremely dry and frizzy. Perhaps using olive oil or a diy hair treatment prior to your shower routine might work for you?

[blackgothicdoll]

About once a month sounds about right with all those butters & oils and then the bars (glycerine).

Maybe it's just not clarifying enough?

Just throwing possibilities out there.

It seems to be, my hair literally squeaks after I use it (I use V05 Kiwi Escapes Clarifying Shampoo). It's actually the only sulfate shampoo that doesn't make my hair feel like straw, so it won't hurt me to try to use twice a month. I only use other shampoos because I'm trying to use those up as well.


I find that not conditioning my hair makes it extremely dry and frizzy. Perhaps using olive oil or a diy hair treatment prior to your shower routine might work for you?

I actually do oil treatments before my shower routine, and yes they work great - I think that's why my hair looks good after I shampoo. That may contribute to another reason I should use more sulfates, though. Even though I CWC to dissolve the oil, I might not be getting it all out.

[curly girl fla]

You had mentioned glycerin-so many with 3/4 hair love it, but I sometimes find it drying and frizz-producing when it is high up on the ingredient list of most products. I agree that ACV instead of conditioner can work wonders in rotation, but I recently found stylers and conditioners that have worked well. Sprouted Curlies (http://sproutedcurlies.com/) have amazing masks. I bought them during a bogo and a sale prior to the bogo-huge containers, great ingredients, super detangling. Love them as cowash, rinse out and leave-ins. And for styling I love Ecoslay Orange Marmalade (https://www.ecoslay.com/collections/wash-and-go/products/orange-marmalade) and Uncle Funky's Daughter Curly Magic (https://unclefunkysdaughter.com/shop-online/hair-care/curly-magic.html), again, huge bottles, no frizz, super hold. I have CurlMix gels which are really good, but I like these two better. (I love reading your posts, btw. You always provide supportive great info and insight. :blossom:)