Classic to floor -- if you could do things differently....?

[dagny]

I am curious to see if those with classic length (and beyond) would do anything differently with regard to hair care or routine? I mention CL and beyond only because this length of hair would presumably get more damage than shorter lengths would.

Kind of like an, "if only I had known THIS back THEN...".

I want to reach my goal length quickly, but would hate to regret doing (or not doing) something at a later date that had thwarted my goal (or slowed it down considerably).

I am not thinking of the things that cause obvious major damage(heat, bleach), but more of the things that one won't think about until AFTER reaching CL or beyond. Things such as:

-- trim vs no trim to get to length goal
-- S&D only vs no S&D vs microtrims
-- specific routine vs basics of just wash and condition
-- fairytale ends vs blunt hemline
-- protective styles at night
-- etc.


Thanks! :-)

[lapushka]

When I was classic and shorter I could detangle my hair after the wash bent over, and put my stylers (curl cream/gel/serum) in bent over as well, then flick my hair back and it would be fine.

Then at FTL suddenly I got knots during the week (I weekly wash). Mystery. Checked my products, checked it all. Mystery.

Until the light bulb went off! I needed to brush bent over, and then right side up and THEN put my stylers in. I had a few weeks' worth of damage and breakage due to knots.

I will remember next time I cross classic into FTL to detangle *well* and put my stylers in right side up.

Who would have known?

[Zesty]

Hmm. I learned most of my hair lessons during my first grow out, so this one has gone pretty smoothly. I started at above APL armed with all my LHC knowledge and years of experimentation with my routine at longer lengths. This "round," I probably should have been more strict about wearing my hair up when I was around hip or so, because I think it caused some breakage. (The underlying lesson is: Listen to LHC wisdom, it exists for a reason. You don't have to follow it to the letter, but consider it.)

I'm also leaning more towards regular trims now but that's a new development.

Otherwise... the first time, I learned:

1. Listen to your frickin' scalp. Just do what it wants. Period.
2. Make a point to have fun with your hair, or all your effort will be for naught when you cut it off in frustration!

Neither of which has much to do with hitting classic. :p Maybe I will be wiser later.

[meteor]

Oh, cool idea for a thread.

I think I regret not having learned how to French/Dutch/lace-braid my own hair when it was much shorter. I can do it on other people's (shorter and thinner) hair, but mine is way too much mass for me to work with now. I highly recommend to anyone going for "extreme" lengths to learn how to braid earlier rather than later, because by the time you'll be dealing with greater lengths, you'll be pretty experienced so it the change will sneak up on you without feeling like a big deal. The same goes to really complex and sectioned updos - better do them at shorter lengths when hair is easier to handle without too much tangling frustration.

I wish I'd known that hairdressers aren't necessary - they always raked through my hair with dense brushes, causing lots of pain and they cut too much, thinned out my hair too much, heavily layered my hair, etc... etc... There is really no *need* to go to a salon for a regular cut, like a clock - it's not a dentist appointment.

I wish I had learned scalp-only washing techniques even earlier (they are a great time-saver for me).
Also, using silky-smooth materials as scarves/pillowcases for bed to prevent friction and finding good quality detangling tools that don't pull and break hair was a critical investment (I like tangle teezer, large afro pick, wide-tooth wooden comb) - it saved me lots of breakage, splits and other troubles later. And finding LHC-style hairtoys - I wish I'd known about them earlier, then I would have been able to keep my hair much longer and avoid unnecessary cuts back when I couldn't find anything in stores that could securely keep my hair contained and out of the way.

There is probably more stuff, but these are the first ideas that come to mind. :)

[Haven]

As an aspiring classic I'm looking forward to seeing these reflections :)

[littlestarface]

Since I have had classic to calf,classsic to knee to calf to knee for a long time now I can say my regrets were never trimming regularly, wearing my hair down when walking as hair can go in the crease of the knee and get looped around chairs which is just awful. Fairy tale ends/letting my hair due its own thing was a huge mistake. Also rubber bands/elastics huge huge mistake, I cut them out about 99% now or else rip hair.

[MusicalSpoons]

I am curious to see if those with classic length (and beyond) would do anything differently with regard to hair care or routine? I mention CL and beyond only because this length of hair would presumably get more damage than shorter lengths would.

Kind of like an, "if only I had known THIS back THEN...".

Oh, not much, only everything I know about haircare and practically my entire routine! :rolleyes: I discovered LHC around TBL so I have an entire litany of hair regrets - I mean I didn't use heat or chemical processing but I was stuck in a cycle of hip - tbl - chop the raggedy ends off - hip - tbl ... thinking my hair just didn't grow any longer. Spoiler alert: it does, but not if you keep destroying the ends with hair elastics!

ANYway, I have neither the time nor energy to write about everything right now, but one length-specific thing is that I wished I'd known about alternative washing methods much sooner. I'd love to try some of them out, especially herbal washing, but my ends are too fragile and too thin to risk making any real mistakes and end up damaging them. (Plus I'm a lot more attached to the length now than I was back then :p)

Great idea for a thread! :D

[sophia_]

Oh, jeez, my ends have gone through so much back in the day shudder:
I found LHC at around midback-waist length, I don't know exactly (I waited years to make an account lol). Before that I knew a little bit about haircare, but I did a whole lot of horrible stuff nonetheless. I stopped doing those things when I found LHC, but when I first started trimming my hair, I used fabric scissors. I still was too impatient to detangle properly, and I didn't want to buy new brushes. I still thought I could use heat "sometimes," and that it would only hurt if I did it absolutely every day. I slowly stopped heat usage, the last time was I think almost 3 years ago. All that hair is probably still on my head, though, because for the longest time I neglected any trims, and my fine hair can't handle that.
Another vote for learning to French braid, esp. for fine hair- it becomes spiderwebs and it's a lost cause at this point.
Get used to wearing your hair up every day and it will hurt a lot less, because you will have gotten used to it.
Pinning back the front pieces seperately saves the hairline :)

[HaMalka]

I wish I had known how to properly use hair sticks and things. I often wore my hair in a bun held up by a single ponytail until I couldn't anymore.

I regret not doing things that changed my parts position more as it now causes me enough pain that when my part changes I have to ice my scalp. I think that if I had regularly worn different partings when my hair was shorter and thus less heavy my scalp would not be so sensitive now.

I also regret not doing more up-dos when my hair was shorter. My hair has gotten long enough that there are buns I cannot do because my hair is too long and I never did them when my hair was the appropriate length for them.

[sumidha]

Honestly not much... Maybe hopped onto the silk pillowcase bandwagon earlier, because it's so helpful with keeping my nape hairs and halo hairs from turning into a knotted frizzy mess.

Just for me, personally, acknowledging the fact that my hair splits really easily and letting go worrying about it, or trying to achieve split free hair.

[akurah]

Stay on top of lint. I've got a lot of lint damage right now that I'm trying to decide if I should do a trim or not.

[Ylva]

Stay on top of lint. I've got a lot of lint damage right now that I'm trying to decide if I should do a trim or not.

Could you tell more about that, please? What's lint damage?

[AmaryllisRed]

Ooh, this is a good thread, dagny!

Very interesting responses so far.

[Simsy]

If I could do things differently...I would start earlier. If I had known how much easier and more fun my hair would be at waist and beyond; I wouldn’t have cut bsl back to collarbone in high school. I would have also started looking for curl-specific information at the beginning of high school rather than sometime in my early 20s. I might have been able to grow a bit longer during high school if I had a better idea of what I was starting with and how to handle it.

[dagny]

lapushka

Wow -- Great tip! I will definitely keep my eye out for problems like this as I get longer! I have already started to get into the habit of washing my hair how I would were my hair much longer (no more piling it all on top of my head, etc).

Zesty

Awesome! I have been trying to make a new habit of wearing my hair up, now that I am officially at 'hip' length. And I learned the scalp thing this past summer, after spending two years with a miserable scalp due to extending washings! I had debated about doing the No Trim thing, but I go back and forth about regular trims or not -- so you have given me lots to consider!

meteor

I am trying to figure out how to do other braids than the English and French, so I appreciate you advocating this as well -- especially since longer hair is much more difficult to style if one is not used to it. Do you like the scalp-only washes just because of the time-saving aspect, or do you think it is less harsh on the length? I know that some people with extreme lengths wash the entire length with shampoo each time, but I was wondering if some felt this was too much and too damaging to the length?

Haven
I am taking notes as well!! :-)

littlestarface
See, I was wondering if fairytale ends would be a mistake for my hair as well! They look so gorgeous, but I am concerned that my ends will look thin and ratty because my hair is not especially thick. So, the question always arises: should I get to the desired length and then maintain with regular trims OR should I do regular trimming as I grow to my desired length? I appreciate your input on this long-standing dilemma!

MusicalSpoons; Oh, Gosh! I need to get rid of hair elastics!! Are you talking about the little rubber-band types or the no-pull thicker ones (that Scuncii makes in different hair colors and are almost cloth covered)? And, it sounds like regular trims is something I really need to consider!


sophia
Another vote, it seems, for regular trimming for those of us with fine hair! It makes sense, actually, due to it being more fragile than courser hair. So THANK you for helping me make up my mind about this issue! I also appreciate the tip on putting the front parts up separately to avoid hair loss. I don't look good with my hair pulled back tightly, so I always try and have some sort of twist or "pouff" or something to make the front softer --- but I still need to think about these things! And, I've got Dutch Braids and all of the fancy hairstyles I like on my "to learn" list!! :-)


HaMalka
Thank you for your advice! I have recently purchased some hair sticks (TT) and some pretty and safe hair toys and am trying to come up with styles that I can do NOW with them so I can not only enjoy them, but learn how to do these styles for when my hair is longer and more difficult to manage without tangles.
My scalp gets tender as well, so I REALLY appreciate the advice about changing the position of parts more frequently.


sumidha

Good to know -- silk on my shopping list!!
I tend to get splits and knots to the extremely fragile hairs on the hair that is on the bottom (near my neck) and I realized that they will always have splits and never grow as long as the rest of my hair -- so it is nice to let go of that concern of trying to get that hair to be perfect because, you are right, it never will be. Thank you!

[littlestarface]

For me since I have thin ends and they are delicate I would say trim as you go cuz I did the whole neglect and trim while there and it didn't work out for me at all. My ends ended up looking so bad but I prefer thicker looking ends.

Also sticks are a life safer for longer lengths cuz aint no elastic or claw can stand up to years of long hair like a etsy hair stick,ficarre or fork can lol.

[dagny]

akurah

I agree with Yiva, could you please explain what you mean by lint damage? Thanks! :-)

AmaryllisRed
Thanks! :-) I am definitely taking notes!!

Simsy
Oh, how I can relate to your words! I will be 50 this year and I am kicking myself for never growing my hair past my hips before, despite having long hair for the majority of my life. It just never even occurred to me!

[littlestarface]

I think she means when you get lint in your hair and then the hair will knot up around said lint, the very bane of my existence.

[dagny]

For me since I have thin ends and they are delicate I would say trim as you go cuz I did the whole neglect and trim while there and it didn't work out for me at all. My ends ended up looking so bad but I prefer thicker looking ends.

Also sticks are a life safer for longer lengths cuz aint no elastic or claw can stand up to years of long hair like a etsy hair stick,ficarre or fork can lol.

How often do you recommend to trim for delicate hair like ours?

Have you ever had problems with your hair getting stuck in a ficcare? Sometimes mine does and I am not sure why.
Also, sometimes I hear my hair snap when I use a hair stick or fork and I don't know why this is, either. Am I wrapping it too tightly? Am I putting the sticks/fork in correctly? It doesn't happen every time, but when it does I just cringe!

[dagny]

I think she means when you get lint in your hair and then the hair will knot up around said lint, the very bane of my existence.

OH, wow! Thanks! I didn't know this could happen! Is this due to not washing frequently or brushing? Or is it because lint is picked up from the environment due to the hair's length?

[Simsy]

Have you ever had problems with your hair getting stuck in a ficcare? Sometimes mine does and I am not sure why.
Also, sometimes I hear my hair snap when I use a hair stick or fork and I don't know why this is, either. Am I wrapping it too tightly? Am I putting the sticks/fork in correctly? It doesn't happen every time, but when it does I just cringe!

After a bit of trial and error, I realised my hair loves to curl around anything it gets near. Bejeweled pins, beaded hair nets, and intricately decorated hair toys all run a fairly high risk of ripping hairs apart or ripping them out all together. You might be running into a similar problem.

[littlestarface]

How often do you recommend to trim for delicate hair like ours?

Have you ever had problems with your hair getting stuck in a ficcare? Sometimes mine does and I am not sure why.
Also, sometimes I hear my hair snap when I use a hair stick or fork and I don't know why this is, either. Am I wrapping it too tightly? Am I putting the sticks/fork in correctly? It doesn't happen every time, but when it does I just cringe!
From what I been doing is every 6 months and then to once a year just to make sure my ends don't get too thin which they are currently doing atm lol, I been lazy. Ficcares did not work for me tbh they pulled my individual hairs and I cannot handle that but what has worked are LIs I love their acyrlics so much no damage hairs and it slides in so easy, same for the ONN oval I am really loving this one and it stays all day. I use a nataulis bun everyday that has really helped me cuz with the sticks they go in where my fingers are so its easy to put in without snagging. What sticks are you using currently??


OH, wow! Thanks! I didn't know this could happen! Is this due to not washing frequently or brushing? Or is it because lint is picked up from the environment due to the hair's length?
Just lint from my blankets and stuff cuz I leave my hair down when I sleep. The wet brush i'm using is getting it out of my hair but rip brush.

[daisy rei]

Oh, cool idea for a thread.

I think I regret not having learned how to French/Dutch/lace-braid my own hair when it was much shorter. I can do it on other people's (shorter and thinner) hair, but mine is way too much mass for me to work with now. I highly recommend to anyone going for "extreme" lengths to learn how to braid earlier rather than later, because by the time you'll be dealing with greater lengths, you'll be pretty experienced so it the change will sneak up on you without feeling like a big deal. The same goes to really complex and sectioned updos - better do them at shorter lengths when hair is easier to handle without too much tangling frustration.

I wish I'd known that hairdressers aren't necessary - they always raked through my hair with dense brushes, causing lots of pain and they cut too much, thinned out my hair too much, heavily layered my hair, etc... etc... There is really no *need* to go to a salon for a regular cut, like a clock - it's not a dentist appointment.

I wish I had learned scalp-only washing techniques even earlier (they are a great time-saver for me).
Also, using silky-smooth materials as scarves/pillowcases for bed to prevent friction and finding good quality detangling tools that don't pull and break hair was a critical investment (I like tangle teezer, large afro pick, wide-tooth wooden comb) - it saved me lots of breakage, splits and other troubles later. And finding LHC-style hairtoys - I wish I'd known about them earlier, then I would have been able to keep my hair much longer and avoid unnecessary cuts back when I couldn't find anything in stores that could securely keep my hair contained and out of the way.

There is probably more stuff, but these are the first ideas that come to mind. :)

Oh wow, thank you for mentioning this! I'd never heard of this technique and immediately had to read every thread on it, lol. :p So much to learn on LHC...

[akurah]

I think she means when you get lint in your hair and then the hair will knot up around said lint, the very bane of my existence.

Basically this. Your hair will collect lint from the following sources:
Your bedding
Your clothes
Your towels
Your brush (potentially the worst offender)
And anything else it touches.

The knots lint cause are insidious, and even if you get the lint and knot out and the hair doesn't need to be cut, you may have damage to the hair shaft and scales that make it more likely to get tangled up even without lint.

The damage left behind by the lint is almost worse than the lint itself, because it can spread (lint damaged hair getting tangled up in undamaged hair, which could damage the previously undamaged hair)

I normally don't see people complaining much about lint until classic+. So far the best solution for my personal battle with lint was to switch to a wide tooth comb, my best efforts at keeping my beloved Denman clean wasn't cutting it. I believe another poster tackles lint by rinsing daily. I also started using a very cone heavy leave in again that I previously had good success with (but never purchased until now, the bottle I had prior was a gift) that advertises as anti-static as well (static attracts lint)

Lint knots are usually very tiny. Most people call them faerie knots

[lapushka]

I just washed, detangled. My hair is FTL+ (+1inch) right now and I wet brushed it bent over, flipped back and I had a KNOT. Just from flipping my hair back. I swear I didn't have it when I fully detangled bent over. I had to manually undo it, as my WB just glided over it (not tugging and pulling it apart thank God, like other brushes). No wonder I was getting knots from putting my stylers in bent over then flipping back. The horror. Yikes. Anyway I detangled again right side up and THEN put stylers in. Phew. I'm glad I got that mystery solved.

:justy:

[eresh]

I don't really do anything different.
I use the same products (shampoo, conditioner, oilspray)

I learned here how to do scalpwashes and that has come in very handy!
I wash my full hair once a week, and in between a scalpwash.

I got a TangleTeezer wet detangler brush, that has been a miracle so far.
So much less hairs in my brush after brushing compaired to my wooden brush.

The longer your hair gets, the trickier it is to do a Dutch or French braid.
The ends will get tangled while braiding, so it takes more time.

I regret having trimmed so often.
I constantly trimmed back from knee+ to knee.
Even from ankle back to knee. To thicken up the ends.
I wish I hadn't, I would be floor right now if I hadn't.
So I stopped trimming.
The ends look just the same as when I did trim.
Now it fairytales a bit more but I don't mind that.

I don't wear my hair down a lot anymore but wear all kinds of buns.
My fav hairtoys are sticks (especially spiral WindSongAttic ones), Forks (especially Yevheniia ones) and Flexi8's.
It's fun to vary with braids and buns :o

[dagny]

Simsy Yes, I also have this problem! With my plain Ficcare, it seems I always manage to get a hair trapped in the spring mechanism and it either gets pulled out or snapped off. This is why I rarely use the Ficcare now.

littlestarface With the Ficcare it seems I am getting one hair that manages to get tangled in the spring mechanism. As for my hairsticks, it doesn't matter if I use a Quattro, TT, Lilla Rose, I always seem to have this issue come up. The hair sticks are completely smooth but I still sometimes hear a snapping sound when I slide them in and I am wondering if my hair is wound up too tightly?


akurah
Oh, gosh! That lint damage sounds horrid! Thank you so much for pointing this out to me, because after reading your description I realize that I have had this issue (albeit, probably not to the same degree as CL and beyond). When I first started LHC (way back with the old platform) I had learned of the "evils" of cones, so I discontinued them. Now I am reading that perhaps they are not all that bad and can have some protective qualities. My question: Should I start using cones now to prevent damage? Or wait until my hair is longer?

lapushka Isn't that frustrating?!! I started washing my hair like Gossimer does in her videos and how I have seen others with knee+ hair do. I no longer flip my hair over, but keep it down straight when washing and rinsing and styling. When my mom had knee length hair, this was how she washed it also -- of course, her hair was much thicker than mine is now. :-(


eresh
When you do the scalp washes, do you keep the rest of your hair dry? Or rinse it out?
I have tried a TangleTeezer back when they first came out and hated it because it seemed to rip and tear my fine hair. Are they still like this, or was this user error on my part? I am currently using a wooden bristle brush and a wide tooth comb. I stoped using my BBB because I was worried it might cause tearing/shredding of the individual strands.

When you say you trimmed "so often" do you mean that you trimmed so much length off at a time, or are you talking about frequent microtrims? Since "terminal" is different for everyone (and for individual hair strands) not everyone will be able to have thick hemlines at extreme lengths. I think your ends look GREAT, but I understand your desire to have them be thick and straight because it is probably a goal that I would have tried to achieve and be unsuccessful at.

At what length do most people stop wearing their hair down? I was thinking that if I got to this length (whatever it was) then perhaps at that point I would stop caring about the fairytale ends and just let it grow?

[eresh]

eresh
When you do the scalp washes, do you keep the rest of your hair dry? Or rinse it out?
I have tried a TangleTeezer back when they first came out and hated it because it seemed to rip and tear my fine hair. Are they still like this, or was this user error on my part?
I am currently using a wooden bristle brush and a wide tooth comb. I stoped using my BBB because I was worried it might cause tearing/shredding of the individual strands.

When you say you trimmed "so often" do you mean that you trimmed so much length off at a time, or are you talking about frequent microtrims? Since "terminal" is different for everyone (and for individual hair strands) not everyone will be able to have thick hemlines at extreme lengths. I think your ends look GREAT, but I understand your desire to have them be thick and straight because it is probably a goal that I would have tried to achieve and be unsuccessful at.

At what length do most people stop wearing their hair down? I was thinking that if I got to this length (whatever it was) then perhaps at that point I would stop caring about the fairytale ends and just let it grow?


When I do a scalpwash, I make a ponytail and slide down the elastic a bit, so the scalphair gets some more room.
Then braid the ponytail.
I'm on my knees in front of the bathtub, I bend over the bathtub and wet my scalp with the shower head and the braided length will be on my back, under my shirt so it doesn't move.
And doesn't get wet. Only the scalphair gets wet and shampooed. I don't use conditioner on my scalp.

I didn't like the TT when it first came out either, it has no handle and it went flying across the bathroom more than once.
Very annoying. It does make ripping sounds, but doesn't actually rip my hair. I brush very gentle. I use it on dry and wet hair.
The TT wet detangler has a handle, much more comfortable to hold!

I trimmed off the ends every time they reached below knee.
I wanted to keep the ends blunt, but now I prioritize the length :-)
My plan is to grow untill floor and then trim to ankle and stay at ankle.

I have had kneelength hair for many years, I used to wear it down a lot when I went out to gothic clubs and concerts/parties. (Ooooh when we were young..... :o )
Now I don't go out anymore so much (except for the occasional concert) and wear my hair up most of the time. It keeps it more protected from breakages and tangles.
I do like to wear a ponytail in the summer.

[lapushka]

lapushka Isn't that frustrating?!! I started washing my hair like Gossimer does in her videos and how I have seen others with knee+ hair do. I no longer flip my hair over, but keep it down straight when washing and rinsing and styling. When my mom had knee length hair, this was how she washed it also -- of course, her hair was much thicker than mine is now. :-(

Yes!

I do have to wash my hair bent over, though. It is what it is (disability & health issue - the easiest for my circumstances).

But I caught the knot now and thank goodness that's not going to bother me throughout the week anymore like it once did, thanks to me brushing it right side up before styling and putting my stylers in this way too.

Sometimes methods need a little tweaking, but hey, we all live & learn, right? :) ;)

[littlestarface]

Simsy Yes, I also have this problem! With my plain Ficcare, it seems I always manage to get a hair trapped in the spring mechanism and it either gets pulled out or snapped off. This is why I rarely use the Ficcare now.

littlestarface With the Ficcare it seems I am getting one hair that manages to get tangled in the spring mechanism. As for my hairsticks, it doesn't matter if I use a Quattro, TT, Lilla Rose, I always seem to have this issue come up. The hair sticks are completely smooth but I still sometimes hear a snapping sound when I slide them in and I am wondering if my hair is wound up too tightly?


akurah
Oh, gosh! That lint damage sounds horrid! Thank you so much for pointing this out to me, because after reading your description I realize that I have had this issue (albeit, probably not to the same degree as CL and beyond). When I first started LHC (way back with the old platform) I had learned of the "evils" of cones, so I discontinued them. Now I am reading that perhaps they are not all that bad and can have some protective qualities. My question: Should I start using cones now to prevent damage? Or wait until my hair is longer?

lapushka Isn't that frustrating?!! I started washing my hair like Gossimer does in her videos and how I have seen others with knee+ hair do. I no longer flip my hair over, but keep it down straight when washing and rinsing and styling. When my mom had knee length hair, this was how she washed it also -- of course, her hair was much thicker than mine is now. :-(


eresh
When you do the scalp washes, do you keep the rest of your hair dry? Or rinse it out?
I have tried a TangleTeezer back when they first came out and hated it because it seemed to rip and tear my fine hair. Are they still like this, or was this user error on my part? I am currently using a wooden bristle brush and a wide tooth comb. I stoped using my BBB because I was worried it might cause tearing/shredding of the individual strands.

When you say you trimmed "so often" do you mean that you trimmed so much length off at a time, or are you talking about frequent microtrims? Since "terminal" is different for everyone (and for individual hair strands) not everyone will be able to have thick hemlines at extreme lengths. I think your ends look GREAT, but I understand your desire to have them be thick and straight because it is probably a goal that I would have tried to achieve and be unsuccessful at.

At what length do most people stop wearing their hair down? I was thinking that if I got to this length (whatever it was) then perhaps at that point I would stop caring about the fairytale ends and just let it grow?

Yea probably so, but is your hair too short to loosen it up abit? Like would pieces fall out?

[EdG]

Here is a link to the lint thread (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=135544).

In perfect hindsight, the thing that I would do differently is to have an effective means of removing lint from day one. Lint is very hard to remove once it has wrapped itself around the hair. The best method I have found is water-only washing or wetting the hair, followed by combing with a wide tooth wooden comb. Sebum is an effective lint remover because it is both slippery and sticky. The comb needs to be cleaned frequently.
Ed

[spitfire511]

Complete side note - edG LOVING the avatar.

dagny what a great thread idea!

So far the best for me here is letting go of splits - I guess I've always thought I had to be 100% split free to have 'healthy' hair and I wasn't getting that with all my efforts - SO long as I'm keeping them 'at bay' to a certain extent knowing that I can breathe and know that I'm just likely to have some, maybe I'll stop being so insane about them!

[EdG]

Thanks, spitfire511! :)
Ed

[Cg]

EdG, great avatar!

[eresh]

Did your hair become so silver EdG?
It's beautiful!

[EdG]

Thanks, Cg and eresh! :)

My avatar photo shows the underside of my hair. This is where the silvers hide, and what I see when I comb the underside. My outer hairs are still mostly black.

Unfortunately, I have experienced a lot of breakage due to matting and lint. My hair is only BSL right now, and I have a broken section around my right ear. It will be a year and a half before I can post a normal length photo.
Ed

[eresh]

Sorry to hear about the breakage.
I bet your hair still looks great at BSL!

[akurah]

I don't think cones will inherently prevent lint, and I don't think switching to cones to chase off lint will necessarily give you the results you want. I chose the product (pravana nevo leave in) because I previously had good results with it, and when I was hemming and hawing in the store about buying it, I noticed it read "anti-static" and figured what the hell, might as well try it again, especially since I had good memories of the product.

It would probably be completely incompatible with something like water only so if I go back to WO I'd have to stop using it.

Also where I live may be a factor. EdG and I live in similar parts of California. This affects climate, humidity levels, etc.

[lapushka]

Thanks, Cg and eresh! :)

My avatar photo shows the underside of my hair. This is where the silvers hide, and what I see when I comb the underside. My outer hairs are still mostly black.

Unfortunately, I have experienced a lot of breakage due to matting and lint. My hair is only BSL right now, and I have a broken section around my right ear. It will be a year and a half before I can post a normal length photo.
Ed

You're kidding! Well nope, guess not! Man, that sucks. :(

And we don't mind any kind of picture, Ed. I'm sure everyone understands what it's like (I have had my share of damage). Maybe you should put a picture up to see where you started from, and next year it will be progress, for sure! Then you can compare how it evolved.

[lapushka]

I don't think cones will inherently prevent lint, and I don't think switching to cones to chase off lint will necessarily give you the results you want. I chose the product (pravana nevo leave in) because I previously had good results with it, and when I was hemming and hawing in the store about buying it, I noticed it read "anti-static" and figured what the hell, might as well try it again, especially since I had good memories of the product.

It would probably be completely incompatible with something like water only so if I go back to WO I'd have to stop using it.

Also where I live may be a factor. EdG and I live in similar parts of California. This affects climate, humidity levels, etc.

Nope, I use silicones and silicone-free interchangeably in my rinse-out conditioners and masks, more silicones than not, and there is 0 difference in the amount of lint. It does depend on what kind of styler I used whether or not I get a lot, or less lint.

The curl enhancing smoothie by Shea Moisture, boy that collects like no other! Especially if you use a little too much of it. I have started using 2 coin sizes instead of 1 and... I feel it at the end of the week. And the brush "feels" it too. LOL!

[EdG]

eresh - my hair is getting better every month. :)

akurah - I am sorry to hear about the lint. You may want to give water-only a try because the waxiness in sebum pulls lint out. Most hair products do not have similar waxiness.

lapushka - I have been avoiding cameras. :run:
Ed

[littlestarface]

I found that for me washing my hair more frequently and using brushes to be relieving my lint problem and no oiling during the week of course which attracts so much lint its insane but sadly it still happens but now not so frequently. Tho I have fallen off the frequent wash thing cuz i'm so lazy and I really hate wet hair.

[lapushka]

lapushka - I have been avoiding cameras. :run:
Ed

Oh Ed, I'm sorry! Your silvers are amazing, I have to say. I have been admiring them ever since you changed your avatar! :D

[dagny]

eresh Thank you for explaining how you do your scalp washes. I will give it a try! In the past, I have tried making a bun and then covering it with a shower cap and then washing the scalp only, but it was a fail for me. Your method sounds much better. :-)
Perhaps I should give the TT a second try. The wet version (with the handle) sounds better for me. Can it be used on dry hair also?

littlestarface pieces do fall out more, especially since I have some layers. But I will start to take note and see which styles seem to have more of a problem and perhaps I should stop those styles for now until I have more length

[dagny]

EdG Thanks for the lint link! I will check it out because this is something I would have NEVER thought about. I am so sad to read that you have experienced so much damage from this (and matting). :-( Your silvers are GORGEOUS, by the way!
I have tried WO in the past, but my scalp was not pleased and after several years of trying, I finally gave up and went back to washing twice weekly and no more scalp itching!


spitfire511 I hear you about the temptation to achieve 100% split free hair. I get a little S&D crazy, especially when I find those dreaded white dots!



akurah That's too bad that cones don't necessarily prevent lint and damage. I really appreciate you mentioning about it, however, because I would have NEVER thought about it and since my hair is fine I can only imagine the amount of damage it would sustain had I remained ignorant on this fact.

[EdG]

Oh Ed, I'm sorry! Your silvers are amazing, I have to say. I have been admiring them ever since you changed your avatar! :D


EdG Thanks for the lint link! I will check it out because this is something I would have NEVER thought about. I am so sad to read that you have experienced so much damage from this (and matting). :-( Your silvers are GORGEOUS, by the way!
I have tried WO in the past, but my scalp was not pleased and after several years of trying, I finally gave up and went back to washing twice weekly and no more scalp itching!Thanks. :)

My lint problem was extreme because I spent the first 20 years of long-hairiness without adequate detangling (finger-combing only). I now know better. Most people will not have lint problems to the same extent as I did. :)
Ed

[eresh]

Yep, I used the TT wet detangler also on dry hair :-)

[meteor]

dagny, sorry I'm replying so late. :flower: Yes, scalp-only washes do more than just save time for me. They simply save me from some tangling problems, because most of my knots form when hair goes from wet to dry (especially if I happen to move it around a bit too much). Detangling right after a wash is the toughest for me.

However, to the lint problem... I find that I get less tangling from lint if I wash length more frequently and brush it out (with Tangle Teaser Thick & Curly edition, in my case) more frequently to move that lint out. If I stretch washes too much (even if I frequently scalp-wash) and use only wide-tooth comb, I certainly notice more dust/lint accumulation (thanks to sticky sebum and exposure to dust) which causes those tiny knots. And when I say "washing length" I do mean with surfactants. Clarifying or other "strong" SLS/ALS shampoos, not too diluted, are really helpful for lint reduction for me, because it's the oils and sebum that tend to keep lint stuck to hair even if I brush it out.

Obviously, keeping hair up as much as possible is great for reducing lint attraction, because it reduces surface area of hair that would otherwise be trapping lint like a humongous mop. I keep hair braided and coiled/bunned at night, too, and I cover it with a silky-smooth scarf to prevent further lint attraction during nighttime. When I'm cleaning my place, I like to keep hair up and wear a shower cap over my bun. If I walk by construction sites, I put a scarf on top of my hair, if I have one on me. It all adds up in the long run... ;)

Avoiding all sorts of leave-ins, oils, stylers, etc... etc is really helping prevent lint attraction, too. I used to like leave-ins *a lot* more when my hair was significantly shorter.

I don't know about Ficarres, they seem really small to me, but yeah, the spring would probably catch my hair, so I avoid such tools. Personally, I really like very smooth, very long, very strong and thin sticks, because they can get through a dense bun without snapping hair. But they hold better on really tight buns with lots of intersections (e.g. on a braided bun) and/or lots of wrapping/looping.

As for the question up-thread about when to start putting hair up... personally, I'm really happy that I started learning to wear hair up as soon as I joined TLHC because that helped me get used to the weight of hair when it was still shorter. The thing is, buns can feel extremely heavy and uncomfortable if you do them for the first time ever, because of how hairs are lying in a new direction. If I started doing updos at greater length, I would imagine it would feel even more uncomfortable, but by now - I'm accustomed and I don't feel the weight. And if the hair is too short/thick for updos, try "divide and conquer" techniques like: half-up buns, sectioned buns, framed buns, using some of the thickness for braided headbands or braided accents, etc, etc...

[MusicalSpoons]

dagny I wore my hair up virtually all the time before LHC. I've had long hair since childhood so definitely was wearing it up by hip, just for practicality. I think that's one reason it managed to get as long as it did without knowing how to *care* for it.

These are the sort of hair elastics I mean: https://www.google.com/search?q=hair+elastics&safe=strict&client=tablet-android-samsung&prmd=sinv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjirLXagOfgAhXNQhUIHTehC-8Q_AUoAnoECAwQAg&biw=800&bih=1280#imgrc=3iwFoGvSxOF1vM:
I used to do a bun secured with one of these, or a braid (damaging to my hair anyway, I now know) or occasionally a ponytail or half-up if I was feeling fancy :grin: but yeah, wrapping one of those around the bun is what did for my ends the most. I used to get my hair cut roughly annually, and you could really see the damage: https://flic.kr/p/YLNqmo (but wearing my hair up so often, I didn't know how bad it was or even mind too much once I did; I think the last time I had my hair cut was to have 'fresh ends' for a concert in 2015 - concerts or other similarly special occasions were the only times I wore my hair down.)

For that reason, hairtoys really were the lifesavers of my hair! That's really my one huge regret, not knowing of them and how to use them before. The other aspects of LHC care are great, but wearing my hair up and truly protecting it has made the most difference.
[However! You should also enjoy your hair, and if that includes wearing it down sometimes, that's not a crime. I happen to enjoy wearing my hair up, knowing it's protected and out of the way, but I think the main thing is making an informed decision. If you know it's not the best thing for hair, and you'll have to be careful not to get it caught, and that you'll have to take time to gently detangle afterwards etc., but decide wearing it down is worth it (especially if you do trim so aren't trying to protect your ends at all costs!) then definitely do go ahead and enjoy it :D for some people the balance of simply wearing it up more often than wearing it down works to keep them and their hair happy enough.]

Scalp washes here too, though I don't think they'd have been quite as helpful without finding a routine that's moisturising enough to keep the lengths happy for longer. As it is, they're brilliant. I used to resent having to wash my hair so soon when the lengths felt fine but my scalp was greasy even before LHC, so you can imagine how happy I was to discover scalp washes and find the method that worked for me!

akurah thanks for explaining about the damage lint causes beyond 'just' the tangles - I had read about it before but forgotten. I do deal with lint but fairly minimally; ROO instead of dry oiling and keeping my hair up in satin overnight helped, as well as changing to satin pillowcases.

Ingredients! Oh, my - I wish I'd known my shampoo was stripping my scalp and causing the excessive oiliness plus intense dryness! I also wish I'd known about silicones, and that they were why conditioner didn't work anywhere near my scalp. Cone-free I could co-wash, if I had the energy. I also wish I'd known that no ingredients are inherently evil, it's just knowing what works for you and how to use them. (I use conditioner with water-soluble silicone because that's what works for me :shrug:)

I have had forks pull on hairs, even the occasional snap, when the bun is just too tight for the tines to slide through. I've also had a couple of poor quality hairtoys do that because they had blunt, square ends :shake: the edges were smooth but still not a point and therefore they didn't go between hairs so easily.

Edit: I'm currently no-trimming generally (though planning to trim once or twice a year to start helping my hemline) which I recommend if your ends aren't actually getting damaged. However, for those who prefer a neater hemline, again it's about making an informed decision rather than just believing you *should* trim every 8 weks or so; making the decision to trim for a purpose (to remove damaged ends, and/or to neaten the hemline) rather than trimming 'just because'.

Oh, also, my splits and white dots (not from any heat!) are throughout, more than at my ends. If I knew what was causing it I'd probably have changed that earlier too :o

[meteor]

Oh EdG, I'm sorry I missed that part... I'm so sorry this happened. :grouphug:

If it's not too traumatic for you to talk about this, could you please share what you think happened to cause that type of matting and what could have been done to prevent or damage-control it? I mean, I'm not gonna lie... I've had a couple close calls with matting once my hair passed knee, I panicked and thought I'd simply have to cut... IMHO it's one of the real possibilities with really long hair, I fear. I think I saw at least 2 reports on the LHC (one - past knee, one - past ankle) where hair was cut because they couldn't untangle it despite significant effort. :(

[trolleypup]

Honestly, not much. Of course it would have been nice to find LHC sooner so that keeping it up would have happened sooner. But my routine hasn't changed vastly from before (other than the changes to keep my scalp happier).

S & D...well, I haven't been keeping up with this, I should, because the tangliness causes damage in my ends...which are already very worn simply from being 10 years old.

Lint. Lint happens, not as bad as if I had finer hair. But lint (any sort of fibrous thing) is at the center of my worst tangles and fairy knots. Less conditioner = less lint for me, but my hair is more manageable with some conditioner, so I pay that price.

The key for me to control tangles is to do a full detangle right after my hair is dry, wet doesn't work, and waiting too long doesn't work either. Once it has been detangled, it doesn't tangle much unless I do something stupid like not covering my hair working dusty or doing carpentry.

[Crystawni]

Length has never been a race for me, and everything I've learnt along the way has been beneficial to how I deal with things now, so there's nothing I'd change.

As for routine (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=119652&p=3638530&viewfull=1#post3638530), I go with the flow, which has pretty much been the same the whole way along. I comb, I brush, I wear my hair in all kinds of styles, and mostly WCC followed by air drying. My all-virgin hair is super fine, slippery and webby, and transitioning to white and silver, so I play more with trimming every four months or so for colour balance and safety in numbers for the ends, with my hair shaped from face framers to u-hem, and no layers left from a compact cut in 2015 at the moment. Speaking of that compact cut, it was too wispy for me and my underlying whites, so I lost a lot of length bulking up my hemline fairly soon afterwards, but again, I wouldn't change trying it out. Oh, and when I first joined LHC I tried no-trimming for just about a year, but prefer keeping things tidier. :shrug: The only other thing that has changed since joining LHC and actively growing, has been going from a daily washer to doing it every three or so days. And yup, I S&D mostly by feel, but don't find too many splits, bends and stuff (they're a bugger to see as two or three of my hairs can look like a split... :rolleyes:)

Oh, and I've never had an issue with lint--yet. But I live in the tropics where fabrics are light and minimal.

To illustrate my LHC journey so far, from APL+ to past classic:

https://i.imgur.com/0mNpwf4.jpg

[EdG]

Oh EdG, I'm sorry I missed that part... I'm so sorry this happened.

If it's not too traumatic for you to talk about this, could you please share what you think happened to cause that type of matting and what could have been done to prevent or damage-control it? I mean, I'm not gonna lie... I've had a couple close calls with matting once my hair passed knee, I panicked and thought I'd simply have to cut... IMHO it's one of the real possibilities with really long hair, I fear. I think I saw at least 2 reports on the LHC (one - past knee, one - past ankle) where hair was cut because they couldn't untangle it despite significant effort.

The root cause was inadequate detangling which allowed lint to accumulate and mats to form. This happened over the course of two decades. In hindsight, finger-combing only with no conditioner was not removing lint faster than it was settling in the hair. My mats were located next to the scalp and were easy to miss.

When I joined LHC, I started using a wide-tooth wooden comb and diluting my shampoo. Three years ago, I switched to water-only washing. That caused the lint to come out in spades. :thud:

My hair has never had much thickness beyond waist. The loss of length is not as traumatic as with super long hair.

LHC'ers have much better hair care from day one, and so lint matting to this extent is rare.
Ed

[Sarahlabyrinth]

The root cause was inadequate detangling which allowed lint to accumulate and mats to form. This happened over the course of two decades. In hindsight, finger-combing only with no conditioner was not removing lint faster than it was settling in the hair. My mats were located next to the scalp and were easy to miss.

When I joined LHC, I started using a wide-tooth wooden comb and diluting my shampoo. Three years ago, I switched to water-only washing. That caused the lint to come out in spades. :thud:

My hair has never had much thickness beyond waist. The loss of length is not as traumatic as with super long hair.

LHC'ers have much better hair care from day one, and so lint matting to this extent is rare.
Ed

I'm sorry you had so much damage from matting and lint, Ed. But let me say that your silvers are absolutely stunning!!! I love your new avatar! :thudpile: Also I'm happy to hear that you are seeing improvement now :)

[meteor]

Thanks so much, EdG! That's really good information to keep in mind for battling lint and knotting.
And for sure, your hair now looks fantastic in your avatar, your hair is awesome at any length!

[EdG]

Thanks, Sarahlabyrinth and Meteor. :)

I have been doing lint archaeology... trying to figure out where different pieces of lint came from a decade or two ago. ;)
Ed

[meteor]

I think a few people mentioned that water-washing helps remove lint... I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, because I don't think lint got dislodged significantly enough when I water-washed my hair? I felt like it just washed and moved lint around, and it probably got stuck back to oils/sebum in new spots. Only specifically anionic surfactants combined with mechanical removal (brushing) managed to help remove lint, even cationic surfactants in conditioner(s) only made lint stick to hair more... :hmm:

[EdG]

meteor - those directions are incomplete.

Water-only washing followed by combing helps to remove lint. The reason is that the dampness softens the sebum, and the waxiness causes lint to stick to the comb. The comb then needs to be cleaned. Lint can only be removed mechanically.
Ed

[Khristopher]

Fingertip length here, if I could do something differently, at least on my journey, it would be skipping my two big chops, from classic/+ to hip both times. I was trying to get thicker ends, but both times I regrew the ends were thin(ner). If I didn't cut, I surely would be at knee right now :( on a more general note, I would make my buns looser, because wearing my hair in a tight bun everyday made my hairline more fuzzy. I now wear my hair loose around the house and braided/loosely bunned outside.

[meteor]

^ Thank you, EdG! :D That makes sense. :agree:

[littlestarface]

Finger combing, I would have never did it, it brought no good, just get a really good brush/comb fingers are only good for taking out knots,separating hairs and mats and cutting off damaged hair. But as a comb noooooo.

[trolleypup]

Finger combing, I would have never did it, it brought no good, just get a really good brush/comb fingers are only good for taking out knots,separating hairs and mats and cutting off damaged hair. But as a comb noooooo.
YMMV, my main detangling tool for many years finger detangling, sometimes I'll finish with a fine toothed comb, but that is only for smoothing. Brushes are the devil in my hair...lots and lots of shedding.

[AmaryllisRed]

Interesting that some say they wish they had trimmed more often and some say they wish they had trimmed less.

[Sora Rose]

I think I regret not having learned how to French/Dutch/lace-braid my own hair when it was much shorter. I can do it on other people's (shorter and thinner) hair, but mine is way too much mass for me to work with now.

I feel this so hard, and I'm only hip length. I'm having loads of trouble learning to French/lace/anything other than plain braid now because there's so much hair to deal with. Definitely recommend starting braiding when shorter.

[meteor]

YMMV, my main detangling tool for many years finger detangling, sometimes I'll finish with a fine toothed comb, but that is only for smoothing. Brushes are the devil in my hair...lots and lots of shedding.


The root cause was inadequate detangling which allowed lint to accumulate and mats to form. This happened over the course of two decades. In hindsight, finger-combing only with no conditioner was not removing lint faster than it was settling in the hair.

See, I worry that just because I've been doing something for many years and it seems to work fine, I may not notice something building up super slowly. I definitely notice that my hair is a lot easier to detangle later if I've been brushing it a lot with the tangle teezer for a while (it pulls out lint and dust pretty well), but there is also more shedding that way (not just shed hairs trapped in the hairmass). When I finger-comb and comb a little with wide-tooth comb, my hair looks nicer (smoother, less puffy and staticky) and I get *way* fewer pulled out hairs and way less breakage, but I notice tiny knots and webs forming... I wonder how much that adds up to my post-wash detangling doom when I feel panicky from the level of matting I can get when my hair goes from wet to dry.
I think it's a delicate balance, a bit like with oils, leave-ins and heavy conditioners being nice for detangling but also attracting lint...

[EdG]

See, I worry that just because I've been doing something for many years and it seems to work fine, I may not notice something building up super slowly. I definitely notice that my hair is a lot easier to detangle later if I've been brushing it a lot with the tangle teezer for a while (it pulls out lint and dust pretty well), but there is also more shedding that way (not just shed hairs trapped in the hairmass). When I finger-comb and comb a little with wide-tooth comb, my hair looks nicer (smoother, less puffy and staticky) and I get *way* fewer pulled out hairs and way less breakage, but I notice tiny knots and webs forming... I wonder how much that adds up to my post-wash detangling doom when I feel panicky from the level of matting I can get when my hair goes from wet to dry.
I think it's a delicate balance, a bit like with oils, leave-ins and heavy conditioners being nice for detangling but also attracting lint...I suspect you are fine as long as any tangles can be combed out.

The distinguishing sign of lint tangles is that they survive many washing/detangling cycles because they are being held together by lint.
Ed

[Ylva]

Now that I'm a bit shorter again (and it strongly seems like I'll be going even shorter, not past the previous milestone though), I think I'll take up braiding as my hair project. It has irritated me for so long that I can't braid myself properly, so I think now is the time to learn. :o

[Dark40]

If I was at classic or floor I would not change my routine with washing, conditioning, or trimming. I would still wash every single day not with shampoo though. Only with conditioner. I would also still deep condition with my DT masks, and deep moisturizing conditioners, and I would also oil the entire length as well. I would also continue to use both a comb and brush.

[Ylva]

If I was at classic or floor I would not change my routine with washing, conditioning, or trimming. I would still wash every single day not with shampoo though. Only with conditioner. I would also still deep condition with my DT masks, and deep moisturizing conditioners, and I would also oil the entire length as well. I would also continue to use both a comb and brush.

Perhaps it's worth looking at it from the other direction. Is there anything you could do differently now that would help you get to classic or floor in the first place? There isn't really any point in this kind of thinking when one isn't there yet, IMO. :o

[meteor]

I suspect you are fine as long as any tangles can be combed out.

The distinguishing sign of lint tangles is that they survive many washing/detangling cycles because they are being held together by lint.
Ed

Thank you so much, EdG! :flower: That's good information to keep in mind.

And just case it helps someone, I should mention that I sometimes use a needle to undo really tight knots/fairy knots/fly-knots that can form around a "string" of lint. I think that's probably the only thing that can help at that last stage with tight lint knots, short of simply cutting those knots out. Thankfully, that doesn't happen often. Linty, fleecy materials (winter scarves, bedding, etc) are the culprit, of course, so lining hats with silky-smooth materials, putting silky scarves underneath wool scarves, using silky bonnets/scarves in bed can all help a bit.

[MusicalSpoons]

Now that I'm a bit shorter again (and it strongly seems like I'll be going even shorter, not past the previous milestone though), I think I'll take up braiding as my hair project. It has irritated me for so long that I can't braid myself properly, so I think now is the time to learn. :o

This is an excellent attitude! In your position I suspect I'd be resenting the situation somewhat, but truly this is a great way to look at it.

One thing occurred to me today: I wish I'd thought to find a nice detangler spray for the rare occasion I want to wear my hair somewhat down. I very occasionally wear it in a ponytail out of necessity (still damp from scalp wash) and honestly I'm usually too tired to detangle gently and patiently. A good, silicone-free detangler spray would have a) helped prevent the small amount of damage I get from that and b) maybe made me more inclined to wear it down a little more often for special occasions. I guess it's not too late, but I just feel like having to rewash this length if my hair doesn't like a spray is more of a nuisance than having to rewash hip length, for instance.

[Ylva]

Thank you for the support, MusicalSpoons!

Speaking of learning to braid, what's the best/recommended order to learn things? Should I first try to learn a simple three-strand English braid, and then maybe a Dutch braid, or a French one? Or what would be logical and make the climb as smooth as possible?

[EdG]

Thank you so much, EdG! :flower: That's good information to keep in mind.

And just case it helps someone, I should mention that I sometimes use a needle to undo really tight knots/fairy knots/fly-knots that can form around a "string" of lint. I think that's probably the only thing that can help at that last stage with tight lint knots, short of simply cutting those knots out. Thankfully, that doesn't happen often. Linty, fleecy materials (winter scarves, bedding, etc) are the culprit, of course, so lining hats with silky-smooth materials, putting silky scarves underneath wool scarves, using silky bonnets/scarves in bed can all help a bit.Yes, the main sources of lint appear to be bedding and clothing. I can distinguish cotton from polyester lint on my comb, in various colors too. Most of it is very fine and hard to see (I am nearsighted and so I can see fine lint better than most people). :)
Ed

[meteor]

Speaking of learning to braid, what's the best/recommended order to learn things? Should I first try to learn a simple three-strand English braid, and then maybe a Dutch braid, or a French one? Or what would be logical and make the climb as smooth as possible?

Here's how I would do it, from easiest to hardest IMHO:

1) side braiding from a ponytail (because all the hair is neatly organized together at starting point and you can see it when it's all pulled to one side):
- side English braid - both "over-" and "under-" : "over" technique will later be useful for French-braiding, "under" for Dutch-braiding;
- twists: rope braid and, if the length allows it, hawser- cable- braid (rope braids rope-braided together)
- fishtail/herringbone braid (since the sectioning is ultra-detailed on this braid, it's going to get a lot more time-consuming when the hair is longer, so enjoy it while you can ;))
- DNA braid (3-strand fishtail);
- Infinity (figure-8 ) 3-strand braid, etc...

2) non-on-scalp braiding down the back without ponytail: English (3-strand) and others mentioned above in #1, including accent braids;

3) multi-strand braiding from one starting point, especially, odd-numbered-strand braids (it's harder because you need to keep sections separate and its fiddly with fingers):
- 5-stranders,
- 7-stranders, etc, because even-numbered-strand braids tends to twist and be a bit trickier. The more strands, the longer the hair needs to be.

4) on-scalp braiding: French, Dutch, lace:
- first, straight down the scalp,
- then diagonally,
- then circular - crown braid,
- then - the hardest: spiral braid.
I think it's specifically on-scalp braiding that gets significantly harder as hair gets longer, since sectioning gets harder (more tangles) and long hair tends to self-braid at the end.

5) combinations of above braids: e.g. French fishtail braid, Dutch 7-strand braid, etc, etc...

Happy braiding! :cheer:

[meteor]

Also, ladollyvita333 has a cool braid-tionary - a nice collection of braids (from fewest strands to most strands and from easiest to hardest) that I think can be of help ;) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2ifoTyHoA4

[Ylva]

Here's how I would do it, from easiest to hardest IMHO:

1) side braiding from a ponytail (because all the hair is neatly organized together at starting point and you can see it when it's all pulled to one side):
- side English braid - both "over-" and "under-" : "over" technique will later be useful for French-braiding, "under" for Dutch-braiding;
- twists: rope braid and, if the length allows it, hawser- cable- braid (rope braids rope-braided together)
- fishtail/herringbone braid (since the sectioning is ultra-detailed on this braid, it's going to get a lot more time-consuming when the hair is longer, so enjoy it while you can ;))
- DNA braid (3-strand fishtail);
- Infinity (figure-8 ) 3-strand braid, etc...

2) non-on-scalp braiding down the back without ponytail: English (3-strand) and others mentioned above in #1, including accent braids;

3) multi-strand braiding from one starting point, especially, odd-numbered-strand braids (it's harder because you need to keep sections separate and its fiddly with fingers):
- 5-stranders,
- 7-stranders, etc, because even-numbered-strand braids tends to twist and be a bit trickier. The more strands, the longer the hair needs to be.

4) on-scalp braiding: French, Dutch, lace:
- first, straight down the scalp,
- then diagonally,
- then circular - crown braid,
- then - the hardest: spiral braid.
I think it's specifically on-scalp braiding that gets significantly harder as hair gets longer, since sectioning gets harder (more tangles) and long hair tends to self-braid at the end.

5) combinations of above braids: e.g. French fishtail braid, Dutch 7-strand braid, etc, etc...

Happy braiding! :cheer:

Thank you so much for this! :) I'll save this information!

[meteor]

^ Great! :D Thank you! By the way, you have the perfect hair color for intricate braiding: light or multi-tone colors are great for showing all the little details on braided styles. ;)
Oh, and if some styles don't work (e.g. cause too much tangling grief in the process), I'd just try a variation or move on to another braid. For example, to replace a French braid, I do a faux French braid by starting an English braid from a half-up (face-framing hair) as one of the 3 strands (torrinpaige's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kOyGD_KOoA) or by adding a smaller English braid (from crown) into a bigger English braid (from nape), like in Ellingwoman braid or Amish or Luana braids. Or crown braid can be replaced with the coronet (English) braid (when hair is long enough) or with heidi/milkmaid braids. There are almost always some variations available. ;)

[dagny]

meteor -- thank you so much for the valuable information you have given! I am taking notes like a mad-woman. :joy:

Musicalspoons -- oh my gosh! I have those hair elastics because they are supposed to be "safe" -- yikes!! I think I will just stick with the Flexi-8's and smooth hairsticks (buns not too tight any more!) instead of regular ponytails. Do you snip all your "white dots"? I tend to get a little scissor happy...

[dagny]

Honestly, not much. Of course it would have been nice to find LHC sooner so that keeping it up would have happened sooner. But my routine hasn't changed vastly from before (other than the changes to keep my scalp happier).

S & D...well, I haven't been keeping up with this, I should, because the tangliness causes damage in my ends...which are already very worn simply from being 10 years old.

Lint. Lint happens, not as bad as if I had finer hair. But lint (any sort of fibrous thing) is at the center of my worst tangles and fairy knots. Less conditioner = less lint for me, but my hair is more manageable with some conditioner, so I pay that price.

The key for me to control tangles is to do a full detangle right after my hair is dry, wet doesn't work, and waiting too long doesn't work either. Once it has been detangled, it doesn't tangle much unless I do something stupid like not covering my hair working dusty or doing carpentry.

Did you have problems detangling your hair wet when it was shorter? OR is this just something you began to notice after your hair got to a certain length?

[Ylva]

^ Great! :D Thank you! By the way, you have the perfect hair color for intricate braiding: light or multi-tone colors are great for showing all the little details on braided styles. ;)
Oh, and if some styles don't work (e.g. cause too much tangling grief in the process), I'd just try a variation or move on to another braid. For example, to replace a French braid, I do a faux French braid by starting an English braid from a half-up (face-framing hair) as one of the 3 strands (torrinpaige's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kOyGD_KOoA) or by adding a smaller English braid (from crown) into a bigger English braid (from nape), like in Ellingwoman braid or Amish or Luana braids. Or crown braid can be replaced with the coronet (English) braid (when hair is long enough) or with heidi/milkmaid braids. There are almost always some variations available. ;)

Oh, that looks like a very fun technique and not too complicated either! Thanks for the tips. :)

[dagny]

Crystawni I really like how you have plotted out your growth. I will have to do something similar to that in a few more years.

Khristopher Thank you for the tips! Do you currently do microtrims to keep your hemline as thick as you can?

littlestarface when you say "finger comb" do you mean just using fingers to comb one's hair? I do rake my fingers through my hair before I use a comb in order to remove tangles before my comb catches them. Is this what you mean? Or do you mean only using fingers and never a brush/comb?

meteor Ooh! I love the braiding primer!!

[littlestarface]

Crystawni I really like how you have plotted out your growth. I will have to do something similar to that in a few more years.

Khristopher Thank you for the tips! Do you currently do microtrims to keep your hemline as thick as you can?

littlestarface when you say "finger comb" do you mean just using fingers to comb one's hair? I do rake my fingers through my hair before I use a comb in order to remove tangles before my comb catches them. Is this what you mean? Or do you mean only using fingers and never a brush/comb?

meteor Ooh! I love the braiding primer!!
Yea like fingers only ever comb the hair, if I did ever use a comb it was only a wide tooth one and those suck for my hair. They're only useful when my hair is drenched.

[DaveDecker]

The number one thing I would have done is identified and addressed the cause of my high rate of fallout that lasted for probably 10 or 11 years. Shedding is now at a more normal rate, and thickness has been returning, but it's going to take a decade -- if the high rate of shedding doesn't recur -- to see how thick it could be at this length.

[trolleypup]

I suspect you are fine as long as any tangles can be combed out.

The distinguishing sign of lint tangles is that they survive many washing/detangling cycles because they are being held together by lint.
I'm glad/lucky I don't get near scalp tangles. If I get tangles they are mostly nape to ends. I can always rake through my hair from the roots with my fingers...or a fine toothed comb for that matter.

My hair has always been this way, so I can't claim that the nuances of my routine make the difference (FWIW: shampoo, never changing the way the roots lay, rinse with a strong water jet (following the direction of the roots), conditioner on the length, rinse, vinegar rinse, rinse, air dry. The key for me to avoid massive tangles is to never change the direction the hair is laying much.

Also, I don't have bedding or clothing that sheds fibers.

Did you have problems detangling your hair wet when it was shorter? OR is this just something you began to notice after your hair got to a certain length?
I don't think I have ever routinely detangled may hair when wet, wet it pretty much grabs itself and acts like it is woven. Every now and then I will separate wet hair into strings because it dries much faster, but I still don't detangle until it is dry. I suppose when it was a handful of inches long it could be combed wet, but that has been a very long time.

[pailin]

It's interesting because some people seem to find their hair detangles more easily wet, but mine is definitely better detangled dry, like Trolleypup says. I learned that around waist or so I think - it's saved me so much irritation. I wished I'd known that years earlier- I fought with detangling after washing my hair every evening for sooooo long.

I've never had trouble with lint, at least that I can tell (I do have trouble with tangles). Perhaps just because I wash daily and detangle daily. Also except for a coney serum, my only leave ins/oilings are getting applied in the morning and washed out at night - so they're not getting slept on.

I think if I were doing it over, I'd want to experiment less; most of my experiments weren't particularly helpful and some of them were probably hard on my hair. On the other hand, now I know and if I hadn't experimented I'd still be wondering.

[lapushka]

Crystawni I really like how you have plotted out your growth. I will have to do something similar to that in a few more years.

Khristopher Thank you for the tips! Do you currently do microtrims to keep your hemline as thick as you can?

littlestarface when you say "finger comb" do you mean just using fingers to comb one's hair? I do rake my fingers through my hair before I use a comb in order to remove tangles before my comb catches them. Is this what you mean? Or do you mean only using fingers and never a brush/comb?

meteor Ooh! I love the braiding primer!!

I know I'm not littlestarface, but I'm going to share how I finger detangle as it might be useful to you. When I finger detangle I don't rake my fingers through my hair like a comb (might as well use a comb then). That is not what finger detangling is to me. I do something a lot more gentle. I separate strands, so I halve my hair, then I separate each half into 3, and get the sheds out that way, while stroking over the section. You can get tangles out, tiny knots that have formed due to shedding, it's awesome!

[milosmomma]

I know I'm not littlestarface, but I'm going to share how I finger detangle as it might be useful to you. When I finger detangle I don't rake my fingers through my hair like a comb (might as well use a comb then). That is not what finger detangling is to me. I do something a lot more gentle. I separate strands, so I halve my hair, then I separate each half into 3, and get the sheds out that way, while stroking over the section. You can get tangles out, tiny knots that have formed due to shedding, it's awesome!
I have seen you post your finger detangle method before lapushka, and I tried it for myself last night and I have to say it is so much gentler and I lost less strands than my usual detangling with raking fingers and combing. I usually lose 50-80 strands(yes I've counted before and now just eyeball the size of the clumped sheds and guesstimate. Post pardum shedding was crazy so I needed to have a way to judge if it was getting worse or better) and detangling this way i lost about half that. Maybe I have been too vigorously detangling and making strands fall that weren't actually ready yet.

[lapushka]

I have seen you post your finger detangle method before lapushka, and I tried it for myself last night and I have to say it is so much gentler and I lost less strands than my usual detangling with raking fingers and combing. I usually lose 50-80 strands(yes I've counted before and now just eyeball the size of the clumped sheds and guesstimate. Post pardum shedding was crazy so I needed to have a way to judge if it was getting worse or better) and detangling this way i lost about half that. Maybe I have been too vigorously detangling and making strands fall that weren't actually ready yet.

I am glad to hear that; great that I could help!

I do this Tuesday through Saturday, and Sunday, I brush it with brushes pre & post wash. Because this method, even though good & fine, does not get everything out. It's just... if you have wavy hair, it preserves the waves throughout the week better, and the more it gets later in the week, the more I separate the strands out. So half, in 3, and each section in 2 again. Because by then my wave pattern is about "gone" and it doesn't matter to me as much. I do lose no hair Monday, which is why I don't bother that night. Then Tuesday I lose about 4/5 hairs, and then more and increasingly more as the week goes on, until I have a handful of hair.

[meteor]

About finger-combing, I think there is a strong possibility that not all shed hairs come out that way, hence the lower number of shed hairs. The longer the hair is, the harder it is for the shed strands to travel all the way down (longer path out of the mane). I definitely find that I shed fewer strands if I finger-detangle, but the problem is that after while tiny webs/knots do seem to form (probably just some missed single-strand knots around lint or something and shed hairs getting trapped in the mane), that's why I definitely like to use the wide-tooth comb and/or the tangle teezer at least once a week.

[lapushka]

About finger-combing, I think there is a strong possibility that not all shed hairs come out that way, hence the lower number of shed hairs. The longer the hair is, the harder it is for the shed strands to travel all the way down (longer path out of the mane). I definitely find that I shed fewer strands if I finger-detangle, but the problem is that after while tiny webs/knots do seem to form (probably just some missed single-strand knots around lint or something and shed hairs getting trapped in the mane), that's why I definitely like to use the wide-tooth comb and/or the tangle teezer at least once a week.

Same here! ^At the end of the week, the bulk needs to come out!

[littlestarface]

Look everyone has their own way they comb finger comb, brush,pik,wide tooth comb technique but the point to this thread was, name something you wish you didn't do and could do things different. Lol I dunno why people are saying but do it this or that way and its better hahaha. For my hair finger combing was a disaster end of.

[MusicalSpoons]

I can't remember if I've already said about this, but when I tried fingercombing I thought it was raking one's hands through like a comb (I mean, it's in the word, what else was I supposed to think?! :p) and WAY more hairs came out. It's still the case, if I rake my hands through even after thoroughly detangling, hairs will come out even if no more came out in the comb. I haven't tried the stroking method but I'm finding I'm currently not shedding much at all when combing :) Plus I also know that if I split my hair into sections and put it back together, tangles *will* form. (I can't remember why but I've done it for some reason a few times in the past - Oh! Yes, for S&D - and just No.) My hair doesn't like it :shrug:

[meteor]

I can't remember if I've already said about this, but when I tried fingercombing I thought it was raking one's hands through like a comb (I mean, it's in the word, what else was I supposed to think?! :p) and WAY more hairs came out. It's still the case, if I rake my hands through even after thoroughly detangling, hairs will come out even if no more came out in the comb. I haven't tried the stroking method but I'm finding I'm currently not shedding much at all when combing :) Plus I also know that if I split my hair into sections and put it back together, tangles *will* form. (I can't remember why but I've done it for some reason a few times in the past - Oh! Yes, for S&D - and just No.) My hair doesn't like it :shrug:

I also always feel some tangling when I separate sections or put them together, which is why I detangle hair in 3 sections (one over the right shoulder, one over the left, one down the back), then I braid these three sections and put the resulting English braid in a bun. This way, the direction and positioning of strands never changes, and this reduces tangling. And when I re-do the braid and bun, I keep those sections separate again and the same during detangling and braiding & bunning.
(I've always finger-combed just by just separating sections and detangling knots with fingers. Which is why I need additional tools at least once a week.)

[milosmomma]

I am glad to hear that; great that I could help!

I do this Tuesday through Saturday, and Sunday, I brush it with brushes pre & post wash. Because this method, even though good & fine, does not get everything out. It's just... if you have wavy hair, it preserves the waves throughout the week better, and the more it gets later in the week, the more I separate the strands out. So half, in 3, and each section in 2 again. Because by then my wave pattern is about "gone" and it doesn't matter to me as much. I do lose no hair Monday, which is why I don't bother that night. Then Tuesday I lose about 4/5 hairs, and then more and increasingly more as the week goes on, until I have a handful of hair.

I'm not sure how to quote both you and meteor but both of you have good points. I have much shorter hair and I did this method on only second day hair. I feel like it was pretty thorough this time, but I also can see now that it wouldn't be enough on it's own. I couldn't get away with using it exclusively but use it for detangling before bunning and braiding it's perfect.

[pailin]

I always feel like I lose more hair with a tt than finger detangling with our without wide tooth comb, but I'm not sure that is really so. I find if I use the tt every day, when I clean house and sweep the floors there's a lot less hair. So I suspect at least part of why finger detangling seems more gentle is that more of the sheds are windibg up on the floor. The TT looks worse, at least partly because it catches more of the sheds, so you see them right when you detangle. But I'm not motivated enough to test this by collecting and counting all my sheds..... Too much work, especially since mine are so hard to see individually.

[lapushka]

On wash day, I have taken to detangling the bottom half of my hair with my fingers (so actually "indeed" raking) on super wet conditioned hair. It helps gets some more sheds out. And it's not that bad, it doesn't pull at all. Which leads me to believe that detangling when super wet is actually something I could try, but I am so scared to do so with my wet brush, and would rather wait until the hair comes out the towel (damp).

I have tried this for 2 weeks in a row now, still testing it, jury is still out a bit.