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View Full Version : Routine recommendations, bun help!



Cherriezzzzz
January 31st, 2019, 03:48 PM
I'm totally stuck in a rut. I'm over two years without a trim. So spilt ends, hair is frizzy, bent ends also, but my scalp is pretty normal. I air dry cause I'm lazy, not cause it makes my hair any better. It's thick and ratty. I've used EVERYTHING because I used to be a hairdresser, so I have access to anything.

I think I'm experiencing decision fatigue?

I don't care what my hair care costs because I'm a minimalist. I'll buy the quality few things over trying a few dozen... unlike my teenage self.

I also need a way to wear my hair up. A ponytail drags my neck backwards due to the weight of my hair (although it's really pretty.) I've been doing one long braid, but it doesn't stay nice looking. I'd LOVE to do a lazy wrap bun, but my hair isn't long enough yet. I'm grazing hip length. Ladies I've been away too long lol, help!

Current routine: wash and condition with suave coconut set, every third or fourth day. Air dry. Braid. Remove braid to ponytail if leaving the house.

MusicalSpoons
January 31st, 2019, 04:03 PM
You say your hair is frizzy with split ends - I don't know anything about previous routines you've tried so apologies if I suggest something you've already tried/considered and ruled out, but I heartily recommend trying double-conditioning, to see if it 'tames' your hair a bit. You might benefit from deep conditioning too, not even necessarily every time but once every {you decide how often}. What's your moisture/protein balance like (strand test)?

Um, can you do a braided bun at all? Cinnabun? You could maybe try doing a sectioned/frame bun (half in the bun, wrap the rest round), even double buns perhaps ... flipped braid, french/dutch braid with the end tucked or bunned somehow. Even double braids, pinned up around your head.

How do you wear it to sleep at night? Satin or silk can work wonders! Pillowcase, cap, scarf, anything to protect your hair a bit (if you aren't already).

I hope there's something in there that might be useful, or spark an idea or something :flower:

lapushka
January 31st, 2019, 04:14 PM
I'm totally stuck in a rut. I'm over two years without a trim. So spilt ends, hair is frizzy, bent ends also, but my scalp is pretty normal. I air dry cause I'm lazy, not cause it makes my hair any better. It's thick and ratty. I've used EVERYTHING because I used to be a hairdresser, so I have access to anything.

I think I'm experiencing decision fatigue?

I don't care what my hair care costs because I'm a minimalist. I'll buy the quality few things over trying a few dozen... unlike my teenage self.

I also need a way to wear my hair up. A ponytail drags my neck backwards due to the weight of my hair (although it's really pretty.) I've been doing one long braid, but it doesn't stay nice looking. I'd LOVE to do a lazy wrap bun, but my hair isn't long enough yet. I'm grazing hip length. Ladies I've been away too long lol, help!

Current routine: wash and condition with suave coconut set, every third or fourth day. Air dry. Braid. Remove braid to ponytail if leaving the house.

At hip as a iii, I could start to do a LWB. But you might have more thickness than me. Maybe try a pencil bun? I'm sure the tutorials are there (on YT), just type in pencil bun and you'll probably find it.

I don't think I have other options, because I went straight from a peacock twist to a LWB at about hip.

Good luck.

Cherriezzzzz
January 31st, 2019, 04:29 PM
You say your hair is frizzy with split ends - I don't know anything about previous routines you've tried so apologies if I suggest something you've already tried/considered and ruled out, but I heartily recommend trying double-conditioning, to see if it 'tames' your hair a bit. You might benefit from deep conditioning too, not even necessarily every time but once every {you decide how often}. What's your moisture/protein balance like (strand test)?

Um, can you do a braided bun at all? Cinnabun? You could maybe try doing a sectioned/frame bun (half in the bun, wrap the rest round), even double buns perhaps ... flipped braid, french/dutch braid with the end tucked or bunned somehow. Even double braids, pinned up around your head.

How do you wear it to sleep at night? Satin or silk can work wonders! Pillowcase, cap, scarf, anything to protect your hair a bit (if you aren't already).

I hope there's something in there that might be useful, or spark an idea or something :flower:

I'm claiming pregnancy brain... I can hardly remember what I did! Satin/silk pillowcase! I've always wanted to try that and forgot!

In the past whenever to do any strand tests they seem neither one is dominant. But i used to deep condition in high school... I rather liked it.

I'm writing down all the bun suggestions...

Braids tucked at all are impossible for me because my ends are so thick that there's this HUGE lump that I can't tuck and hide. I'd love too... I've my ends thinned out allot from the haircut I grew out two years ago, so as I return to trimming once I hit tailbone (growing out last bits of layers) the thickness of my ends will only get worse.

Thanks, this all gives me major starting points!!!

bokeh
January 31st, 2019, 04:51 PM
I'm going to suggest that you try a Disc Bun even though I don't have first hand experience with it. I can't wear it yet because my hair is still too short. The reason that I suggest it is that I've seen it suggested as a good option for someone with thick hair and also as a good option when hair is not quite long enough for some of the other buns. I'm waiting impatiently for my hair to get long enough to give it a try! HTH

Cherriezzzzz
January 31st, 2019, 05:05 PM
At hip as a iii, I could start to do a LWB. But you might have more thickness than me. Maybe try a pencil bun? I'm sure the tutorials are there (on YT), just type in pencil bun and you'll probably find it.

I don't think I have other options, because I went straight from a peacock twist to a LWB at about hip.

Good luck.

Happily writing down more buns... YouTube will be fun tonight.

Last time I measured my hair thickness it was over 4 inches but I don't recall the exact amount. But my hair is... "big." So perhaps we have same exact thickness even but my texture is very resistant to being flattened. Of course not on the TOP of my head! My hair is perfectly pleased to be flat up there! I'm naturally a walking triangle hehe Brave, the Disney movie... yea that's me, not the little mermaid with luxurious, bouncy volume all around type thickness :)

Cherriezzzzz
January 31st, 2019, 05:08 PM
I'm going to suggest that you try a Disc Bun even though I don't have first hand experience with it. I can't wear it yet because my hair is still too short. The reason that I suggest it is that I've seen it suggested as a good option for someone with thick hair and also as a good option when hair is not quite long enough for some of the other buns. I'm waiting impatiently for my hair to get long enough to give it a try! HTH

I'm really excited about these suggestions... I'll have to post again with pics...

Spikey
January 31st, 2019, 06:13 PM
A nautilus bun is a good option, and I'm seconding disc bun. Also, you should be able to do a cinnabun at any length, though I find those annoying. General bun tip: if your hair isn't long enough, try using, say three fingers instead of your whole hand to make the bun. Or go from two fingers to one for disc bun.

Cherriezzzzz
January 31st, 2019, 07:16 PM
A nautilus bun is a good option, and I'm seconding disc bun. Also, you should be able to do a cinnabun at any length, though I find those annoying. General bun tip: if your hair isn't long enough, try using, say three fingers instead of your whole hand to make the bun. Or go from two fingers to one for disc bun.

I've tried buns (who knows which ones) and it doesn't seem to make much of a difference in the amount of fingers? My hair doesn't get tighter? Maybe I'm way under the learning curve in buns ha!

Writes down another bun... Thank you!

CopperButterfly
January 31st, 2019, 07:27 PM
I definitely think you should be able to do the disc bun. I was able to start doing that one at apl, despite my thickness, though mine is not as thick as yours. Disc bun is so my go too, though I can just manage a nautilus wrapped over 2 fingers.

Anyway, because you split the disc bun in 2 pieces and wrap them separately, it really helps with the thickness problem.

Cherriezzzzz
January 31st, 2019, 07:27 PM
Test moisture/protein balance
Double condition
Deep condition (starting with once a week, see how hair responds to frequency)
Cinnabun (braided bun)
Sectioned/frame bun
Double buns
Flipped braid
French/dutch braid with ends tucked
Double braids pinned around my head
Silk/satin pillowcase
Pencil bun
Peacock twist
Disc bun
Nautilus bun

Corvana
January 31st, 2019, 08:53 PM
I'm like... fourthing or fifthing the disc bun :laugh:.

Less fingers doesn't really make the bun "tighter", it just makes your loop(s) smaller so there's less hair in a loop and therefore more to be used for wrapping. If you try the disc bun I'd suggest start with just one finger first for your loop (the second is always on your thumb, so that one can't be varied while wrapping like the loop that goes over your other fingers can). If that's too tight, before trying again, gently tug the loop while holding the bun to make it a little bigger. That's what I had to do when I was between fingers (right now i'm between two and three, two is too small but three is too big, so I use two and gently tug to get it a little bit bigger).

A hair fork will also hold your hair more securely, but it does often make buns a little tighter. I tend to prefer making a cinnabun or something when I use a fork, instead of a looped bun that I'd need to fit the fork into. I can just stab it through the whole bun when I do a cinnabun, so it doesn't tug the bun any tighter.

You can see in my avatar, actually, a fork in a disc bun. It's comfortable, but tighter than with a stick.

MamaLou
January 31st, 2019, 11:24 PM
I can do a lwb and after my haircut I'm not even at bsl. Maybe you can try a celtic knot? I suggest experimenting with ROO and LCO (you only need to buy two more products to try this) and see if it makes a difference (in my experience the "technique" is more important than the exact product so just use something you think you'll like).

You can also chose to chop off the split ends, it can make a nice difference in how you feel about your hair.

akurah
January 31st, 2019, 11:49 PM
What hair toys do you own?
For example, do you own any of the following:
Sticks
Forks
Flexi-8s
Amish Pins
Ficcares

and so on.

Knowing what you have available will make it easier to advise.

My go to bun these days is a variation on the cinnamon bun. I don't know it's name, or if it even has one, or if it's also permitted to call it a cinnamon bun. I secure it with a 3 prong fork. You make this bun by gathering your hair into a ponytail where you want the base of the bun to be (you do not need to put a ponytail holder if you do not want to). Then you twist the base of the ponytail as if you were starting a cinnamon bun, I only twist once, but you can probably twist twice if your hair is either thin enough or long enough. Hold the hair by the twist, then wrap the loose ponytail (no more twisting) around the core you made with the twist. When you get to the "end' of your hair, tuck if you want to, then stab a fork through it. The tines of the fork should go over the outer untwisted loops of the bun, under the core, and out again over the outer untwisted loops again. I need a 3 prong or higher fork to do this, and I need a fork with at minimum 4.5 FPL, and I'm probably close to outgrowing that.

Caveat though: last I measured my hair was between ii and iii due to alopecia areata (before then, it was a iii), and I haven't measured recently. I also have taper (intentionally trimmed in about three years ago, then left to its own devices). If your hair is high on the iii spectrum (ex: 4.75 to 5 in or more) this might not work unless you have a lot of length. If your ends are so blunt you have almost the same thickness from root to ends, you might also have trouble since the bun does hold better if you do tuck the ends, even though tucking the ends isn't fully required. For my hair thickness, I believe the bun I'm describing could be done on my hair even as short as BSL or even potentially APL, and my hair is currently just shy of classic.

Cherriezzzzz
February 1st, 2019, 11:51 AM
I'm like... fourthing or fifthing the disc bun :laugh:.

Less fingers doesn't really make the bun "tighter", it just makes your loop(s) smaller so there's less hair in a loop and therefore more to be used for wrapping. If you try the disc bun I'd suggest start with just one finger first for your loop (the second is always on your thumb, so that one can't be varied while wrapping like the loop that goes over your other fingers can). If that's too tight, before trying again, gently tug the loop while holding the bun to make it a little bigger. That's what I had to do when I was between fingers (right now i'm between two and three, two is too small but three is too big, so I use two and gently tug to get it a little bit bigger).

A hair fork will also hold your hair more securely, but it does often make buns a little tighter. I tend to prefer making a cinnabun or something when I use a fork, instead of a looped bun that I'd need to fit the fork into. I can just stab it through the whole bun when I do a cinnabun, so it doesn't tug the bun any tighter.

You can see in my avatar, actually, a fork in a disc bun. It's comfortable, but tighter than with a stick.

LOVE YOUR avatar! Cant wait to try it!!!:hifive:

Cherriezzzzz
February 1st, 2019, 11:58 AM
I can do a lwb and after my haircut I'm not even at bsl. Maybe you can try a celtic knot? I suggest experimenting with ROO and LCO (you only need to buy two more products to try this) and see if it makes a difference (in my experience the "technique" is more important than the exact product so just use something you think you'll like).

You can also chose to chop off the split ends, it can make a nice difference in how you feel about your hair.

It's been awhile for me... ROO? LCO?

My hair doesn't tangle at the ends, plus I'm s&d, I do not cut, (or chop! Ahhh hahaha!) my hair.

I had a very difficult pregnancy and I wasn't able to oil, braid, or even wash my hair very often. I'd say NEGLECT instead of "benign neglect."

I tried the lazy wrap bun once my hair was bsl and obviously it didn't work then. It being waist length (I'm measured at 35 inches from forehead to down my back) you'd think I could... I am SUPER disappointed it's not long enough. I heard another thick haired gal once say she wasn't ready at waist either and I was hoping that wouldn't be me, but it is.

My feelings about my hair are come and go... I actually LOVE it. It's just me at a loss and without a plan. Thank you guys for helping!!!

Cherriezzzzz
February 1st, 2019, 12:04 PM
What hair toys do you own?
For example, do you own any of the following:
Sticks
Forks
Flexi-8s
Amish Pins
Ficcares

and so on.

Knowing what you have available will make it easier to advise.

My go to bun these days is a variation on the cinnamon bun. I don't know it's name, or if it even has one, or if it's also permitted to call it a cinnamon bun. I secure it with a 3 prong fork. You make this bun by gathering your hair into a ponytail where you want the base of the bun to be (you do not need to put a ponytail holder if you do not want to). Then you twist the base of the ponytail as if you were starting a cinnamon bun, I only twist once, but you can probably twist twice if your hair is either thin enough or long enough. Hold the hair by the twist, then wrap the loose ponytail (no more twisting) around the core you made with the twist. When you get to the "end' of your hair, tuck if you want to, then stab a fork through it. The tines of the fork should go over the outer untwisted loops of the bun, under the core, and out again over the outer untwisted loops again. I need a 3 prong or higher fork to do this, and I need a fork with at minimum 4.5 FPL, and I'm probably close to outgrowing that.

Caveat though: last I measured my hair was between ii and iii due to alopecia areata (before then, it was a iii), and I haven't measured recently. I also have taper (intentionally trimmed in about three years ago, then left to its own devices). If your hair is high on the iii spectrum (ex: 4.75 to 5 in or more) this might not work unless you have a lot of length. If your ends are so blunt you have almost the same thickness from root to ends, you might also have trouble since the bun does hold better if you do tuck the ends, even though tucking the ends isn't fully required. For my hair thickness, I believe the bun I'm describing could be done on my hair even as short as BSL or even potentially APL, and my hair is currently just shy of classic.

4.75 in diameter! LOL ok... I'm seeing a need to get hair toys. I have literally nothing. My hair grew all this crazy during my bad pregnancy and my baby was rather difficult till about now at 6 months old. So I'm sort of waking up to 15 months of AWESOME pregnancy growth with not a clue what to do. Leaving it in a top knot, low ponytail etc rats up my hair. Which is why I'm hoping for some great buns and changes in my routine (Again TY guys!) I'm still treating my hair like it's apl... that's not gunna work anymore lol!

spidermom
February 1st, 2019, 03:17 PM
My thickness used to vary right around 4 inches, and the first bun that would stay comfortably was the nautilus.

I don't know what my thickness is anymore; a bit less than 4, I think.

spitfire511
February 1st, 2019, 03:34 PM
How'd it go? Were you able to have some fun trying? I can do both a disc (barely) and LWB at MBL and I think I'm between 3-4" circumference (or close). I do use less fingers though! Hairtoys DO make a difference for me. I well made stick holds SO much better than a pencil or chopsticks (ahem - not that I would know of course!)

The other thing - knowing that your bestie just did a chop - maybe try a Feye's self trim just to neaten up those ends (sorry if this has been suggested and I missed it!) - that makes a HUGE difference for me when I'm feeling off about my hair but know that I don't really want to cut it.

ROO = Rinse Out Oil - thread is here (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=129191) - I use this a lot. While the oil doesn't add moisture - it does help your hair hold it in a little better!

lapushka
February 1st, 2019, 03:40 PM
Yes all the acronyms (ROO, LOC/LCO) are in my signature, OP!

MusicalSpoons
February 1st, 2019, 04:56 PM
Just popping by to say I'm so glad you've got ideas for where to start :D hair forks are likely to be more useful/versatile than sticks if your hair is on the thick side of being able to bun - depending on the thickness of the prongs and density of your hair you might be able to put the prongs through any loops anyway, instead of all inside the loops (took me ages to learn that :lol:) - but of course there are all the other types of hair toy too; I hope you enjoy stepping into the fun and exciting world of hairtoys! :cheer:

Cherriezzzzz
February 2nd, 2019, 06:21 AM
Bestie has one of those Split end menders! (Jealous... someday...) But after she attempted to even up her own layers, she ended up at a hairdresser. Her haircut is superb, just exactly what she had before two years ago that she grew out... Her ends look thick like mine now! I've not really broached the subject much but I believe her plan is to use the split end mender when needed. I've not even been able to delve onto YouTube yet... just busy. I'm also waiting to try things till I can give you guys some pics!

Cherriezzzzz
February 2nd, 2019, 06:23 AM
Yes all the acronyms (ROO, LOC/LCO) are in my signature, OP!

And with links... clever! TY!

Cherriezzzzz
February 2nd, 2019, 07:03 AM
https://www.personal.psu.edu/u0y/IMG_20190202_083806.jpg

http://www.personal.psu.edu/u0y/IMG_20190202_083545.jpg

http://www.personal.psu.edu/u0y/IMG_20190202_083452.jpg

Cherriezzzzz
February 2nd, 2019, 07:10 AM
It fell out but at least it went up! I'll keep practicing and get a proper hair toy. Anyone got retail sources? I'd like to support other LHC peeps or etsy businesses if possible. I'm trying to get the other two pics I took uploaded. Hubby had to get this one up. I'm assuming a three pronged fork would be best?

Cherriezzzzz
February 4th, 2019, 08:17 PM
ROO method... guys, thanks! This might be a game changer! Two thumbs up! :happydance: can't wait to retry the disc bun with this tomorrow! Giving it that grip!

akurah
February 4th, 2019, 10:01 PM
It fell out but at least it went up! I'll keep practicing and get a proper hair toy. Anyone got retail sources? I'd like to support other LHC peeps or etsy businesses if possible. I'm trying to get the other two pics I took uploaded. Hubby had to get this one up. I'm assuming a three pronged fork would be best?

Your mileage may vary on fork prongs, but 3 prong is a popular choice.

This is my go to hair fork: https://www.grahtoestudio.com/catalog/waterproof-threnody-hair-fork

I picked it up on the swap board, I have the black one. At some point, when finances permit, I plan to get the clear and the two versions of red.

When I say it's my go-to, I mean if someone came to me today and said "You have to throw away all your hair toys and you can only keep one for the rest of your life, and you can never buy any more", this fork would be the one I keep.

CopperButterfly
February 5th, 2019, 02:00 PM
WoodEverIImagined (https://www.etsy.com/shop/WoodEverIImagine?ref=s2-header-shopname&section_id=19143375) is my favorite etsy shop for acrylic hair sticks. They are so pretty and nicely made.

I also really like quattro for forks. I bought a basic set of StarLites (https://www.etsy.com/listing/103258030/hair-forks-by-quattro-starlites-combo?ref=shop_home_active_3), and they hold my thick slippery hair amazingly well.

I definitely think having a few good hair toys makes buns so much easier to do.

MusicalSpoons
February 5th, 2019, 03:16 PM
It fell out but at least it went up! I'll keep practicing and get a proper hair toy. Anyone got retail sources? I'd like to support other LHC peeps or etsy businesses if possible. I'm trying to get the other two pics I took uploaded. Hubby had to get this one up. I'm assuming a three pronged fork would be best?

Yay, welcome to the world of hairtoys! :cheer: my personal all-time favourites are Jeter forks, though some people can have problems with the tines being too wide - that's precisely why they work so well for me though. Seconding the Quattro Starlites suggestion, great for unobtrusive, simple hold.

If you have a look at some of the threads in the Products and Conventional Accessories subforum you could see what kind of things take your fancy. There's not only a range of different types of hairtoy but a plethora of different materials and styles to suit all tastes :grin:

Oh, OutNumberedNovelties is a favourite shop amongst many members, with acrylic and wooden sticks for reasonable prices; the oval sticks in particular have a reputation for great hold.

Edit: you could also check the Swap Board periodically to see if anything there catches your eye; it can be a great way to try different makers' items at often a little less than you would pay for them new (and you can always pass things on if they don't work out for you, too).

Cherriezzzzz
February 5th, 2019, 04:12 PM
Yay, welcome to the world of hairtoys! :cheer: my personal all-time favourites are Jeter forks, though some people can have problems with the tines being too wide - that's precisely why they work so well for me though. Seconding the Quattro Starlites suggestion, great for unobtrusive, simple hold.

If you have a look at some of the threads in the Products and Conventional Accessories subforum you could see what kind of things take your fancy. There's not only a range of different types of hairtoy but a plethora of different materials and styles to suit all tastes :grin:

Oh, OutNumberedNovelties is a favourite shop amongst many members, with acrylic and wooden sticks for reasonable prices; the oval sticks in particular have a reputation for great hold.

Edit: you could also check the Swap Board periodically to see if anything there catches your eye; it can be a great way to try different makers' items at often a little less than you would pay for them new (and you can always pass things on if they don't work out for you, too).

Oooh I'm going on the swap board and I'm gunna wait to see something I love there! Great idea!

I got a "are you crazy" look when I (accidentally) referred to not having cut my hair in over two years... I decided to really freak em out and told them I'm growing my hair to my knees! :face::guns: nothing silences the criticism faster HAHAHA

cjk
February 5th, 2019, 09:31 PM
Must it be a bun, specifically? For instance, can you braid?

A number of braided up dos are possible including a ballerina bun, but I was going to suggest a crown braid. You mentioned tangles, which are basically eliminated with braids, and weight. Both are addressed with a crown braid.

And it's an unusual and particularly regal looking option.

Cherriezzzzz
February 6th, 2019, 05:46 PM
Must it be a bun, specifically? For instance, can you braid?

A number of braided up dos are possible including a ballerina bun, but I was going to suggest a crown braid. You mentioned tangles, which are basically eliminated with braids, and weight. Both are addressed with a crown braid.

And it's an unusual and particularly regal looking option.

You know I CAN braid... and I can also learn any braid I believe! I like that option..no it must not be a bun! I think that'll be my bevy YouTube stop, crown braid... I'll get another pic posted.