Another "should I cut" thread...

[Katze]

My hair has been changing a lot lately. Maybe it's the weather, maybe it's hormones, but it is a lot smoother and sleeker (hooray) and straighter (hmmm) with ends that don't look good, at ALL. This new smoothness has been enabling me to try new updos (though they are still not as nice looking as most on here, due to severe scalp cleavage), but it isn't permitting me to wear my hair down anymore. Also, most of my length is flat and smooth, with the ends sort of bumpy, instead of the nice spiral waves I used to have.

This could, in part, be the result of more brushing and oiling. Apart from my ends, my hair does seem to LIKE brushing and oiling, as long as I wash very, very thoroughly (shampoo and no conditioner) the next day.

Added to this, I have a lot of baby hairs coming in - a LOT. If my hair is clean, I look like the wolf woman! So I'm a solid ii at the crown, tapering down to less than i at the ends. I love my new growth, especially the silvers, but am a bit at a loss as to what to do with my hair, as it's even more unruly now.

Since coming to LHC I've been trimming, and trimming, and trimming, and have gone from shoulder to BSL in the two plus years I've been here. I really, really want blunt ends. I'm thinking if i cut ALL the taper off, I'd be at chin-to-shoulder length - a terrible and unflattering length on me. But if I keep trimming as I have been, it will take forever before I have a blunt hemline, and - if I understand hair genetics right - I may never have blunt, thick ends.

Should I cut? Should I go buy a heavy duty sulfate shampoo (I don't have any SLS or SAS shampoos in my entire collection; I checked) and just wash the heck out of my hair so it stops being flat-then-greasy? My non SLS shampoos aren't cutting it anymore. Should I go to a salon? Just suck it up and wear pinned up braids or ponytails or French twists for the next while? I still can't manage many updos, because of hairtype, cowlick, and lack of skill.

I'm feeling a bit dumpy because of my pregnant belly and greasy hair and don't want to have even WORSE hair when I go through the inevitable (is it inevitable?) postpartum hair loss. So maybe cutting it as blunt as I can get it would mean I start from a better starting point when I try to grow my hair back? Going from the assumption here that having a baby means I will shed even more, even though I'm shedding fairly normally now.

I'm washing more but still oiling and using conditioner, and my virgin hair feels great, but the ends are really quite nasty after day 2. Tomorrow I'll go swimming again and have to wash and blowdry, so maybe I'll then have hair I am happy with and can wear down...

or should I just surrender to the scissors and cut off the worst 3-4 inches?

help?

[Angelica]

I am sorry you are feeling this way. I often feel this way about my hair. Its texture being the way it is and the lack of thickness. However I can reassure you on one thing. You know my hair did NOT change during pregnancy nor did it suffer after pregnancy. This was something I was really concerned about. I noticed no extra hair loss at all. With my hair that would be easy for me to see. So it stayed the same. No added thickness either during the pregnancy.

I might be an oddity, I don't know. But even if I am one of the exceptions, I don't feel that hair loss after pregnancy is inevitable. It may not happen.

My hair is always flat, it would be without any body or the usual styling products that it needs be anything more and it is also very straight.

I don't want to cut but I am thinking whether to switch back to all the "bad" products because I really do not like my hair just being like a sheet of silk. It is no good like this. It is difficult to build any bounce on it.

Regarding the greasy hair thing. Well, I use dry shampoo now as well and it saves me from washing it every day.

But I like washing my hair anyway so I don't mind if I have to wash every day really.

I am using a sulphate shampoo at the moment.

I just think by cutting you might regret it and it is easier to manage longer (I think). I found chin length on me so much hard work with the maintenance.

I suspect you will be told the two week rule applies here.

I hope you feel better about your hair soon. I am sure most of us go through a bad day with our hair sometimes.

[Hypnotica]

Don't cut now.

My hair seems to like to be cleansed by SLS fairly often. It's worth a shot anyway. And how does you ends feel more specific?

You can always cut later. Like when the baby is due. You will have so much on you mind for a rather long period of time and that is perfect for letting your hair grow by forgetting about it.

[plainjanegirl]

Yes I would wait to cut. You'll be amazed how little time you will have to worry about your hair when the precious baby arrives . In a year you will look back and be like wow where did the time go and when did my hair grow. But in the end do what makes you happy.

[Kuchen]

Well, if you cut it above shoulder length now, by the time you've grown it to BSL it won't be blunt again. The only way to have 100% solid blunt ends at waistlength is probably to chop from tailbone or longer, I think.
I'm in a similar boat to you - we both have straight/wavy hair, the same goal and damaged ends that drive us to distraction :grin: I often think about lopping the last of the damage off but I think I'd lose heart if I had to go through the long, slow grow from shoulder to BSL. Also, I'd get bored of babying the ends and having to wear them up.
As it is, I can trim when I get frustrated but still have the length. I can also wear it down and have it not in tip-top condition because I know I can always trim it. Hope that makes sense.

[JessTheMess]

Don't cut just yet. I would just keep with the updos and if anything maybe just trim no more than an inch. I go back and forth with wanting to chop all of my layers to make one blunt hemline as well. If I did that, my hair would be a chin length bobcut. I don't think It'd be very flattering at that length :shrug: When in doubt or if I get an urge, I just put it up and forget it.
I hope that the new shampoo will help your hair and make you feel better. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you. :grouphug:

[spidermom]

Yes - cut. Don't go shorter than you can stand, but get as much of that old, dried-out, thinned-out stuff cut off as you can. I hope you are putting conditioner on your ends before you shampoo for the protection; you don't have to add more after rinsing. I also think you should probably dilute your shampoo because over-cleansing stimulates more oil production, which you want to avoid.

[MsBubbles]

I'm another one of those "didn't notice a thing different with my hair during or after pregnancy" people, and I was fully expecting to have some kind of hair loss and bald patches because my mother did, and she told me that I would. Unfortunately nobody warned me about the period of temporary insanity that made me get a chin-length perm after giving birth...:o (I really need throw all photographic evidence of that away). You may not get any huge shedding after childbirth. I had some notion that those ladies who shed a lot of hair after childbirth did so because they retained more hair than usual during pregancy, so they didn't lose any overall thickness when all was said & done.

Regarding whether you should cut it up to your chin - try the 2 week rule. I personally would hate to see you do that, unless it made you deliriously happy.

You've come such a long way. This may just be yet another awkward phase that you need to push through to see what's on the other side.

I understand your greasy day blues. I am thinking myself of abandoning even trying to stretch washes longer than every other day any more. It's hard to go around deliberately ugly every other day (speaking for myself, by the way!!).

[neon-dream]

I wouldn't cut it yet, I would wait until your hair was longer and then you won't have to surrender to an unflattering length on yourself :)
xxx

[spidermom]

Yes - cut. Don't go shorter than you can stand, but get as much of that old, dried-out, thinned-out stuff cut off as you can. I hope you are putting conditioner on your ends before you shampoo for the protection; you don't have to add more after rinsing. I also think you should probably dilute your shampoo because over-cleansing stimulates more oil production, which you want to avoid.

I wanted to add the reason that I say this is because you have fretted about those ends for so long that I think you should free yourself of them. Don't go shorter than shoulder length since you already know it's an unflattering length on you; maybe cut back an inch every other month -- something like that.

[Islandgrrl]

I agree with waiting. At the most, a healthy trim.

Find an easy updo that works for you in terms of what I call "looking good enough" and being really fast and no-hassle. Once the baby comes, it's exactly what you'll need.

Seriously, I went from essentially a pixie-ish boy cut to hip length hair when my kids were tiny (2.5 years apart) in what felt to me like the blink of an eye. In reality it was about 4 years total. I hate to admit it, but it was mostly sheer neglect and having neither the time nor money (not to mention energy) for salon visits.

Aslo, my hair was severely tapered due to the total neglect in terms of trims. I didn't wait until it was "long enough" to blunt cut the hemline. I picked a point (for me it was about waist at the time), and just kept cutting the longest part back to that point every month or two. So I maintained an okay overall length, but considerably thickened up my ends in the process. Not sure I explained that right. But the longest layer was not quite TBL and the shortest at BSL when I started doing that. I eventually (years) got to knee with a blunt hemline.

Look at it this way, you can always cut. Last resort. Right?

ETA: I didn't experience heavy postpartum shedding with any of my pregnancies.

[Nightshade]

Although I already blathered a bit in your profile page I'll repeat it here. I guess to me that'd depend on 1) how much are you thinking of cutting and 2) would you be cutting into 100% healthy hair? If you're cool with losing the length and you're cutting into healthy hair I think that's fine. Otherwise, though, I'd stick with trimming gradually if you're still cutting into damaged hair.

I also would not cut shorter than you can tie back. With the baby arrives, I think you'll be able to want to put it up, to say nothing of not having hair in your face while in labor.

Perhaps just mantaining length and cutting off all your growth/month? Or as Spidermom suggested, an inch every other month?

[camara]

Add me to the 'No significant change in hair during and after pregnancy' group.
Well, maybe I got a tad more wave, but that was that.

And referring to looking good/bad/ok during pregnancy and afterwards...my experience was that my skin was breaking out so badly during pregnancy that my midwive asked me-totally concerned and earnest-whether I had Measles. Good hair didn´t help with that one bit.

After DS was born, I counted myself lucky if I had the time to rush through my hair with a brush and put some elastic in-fast, before the little one started crying again. Apart from that, my belly was grossly flabby, I was covered in baby vomit all the time (yikes, the smell), my hair was unwashed, and I didn´t even have the time to think of going to the hairdressers, let alone really go there. And don´t ask me about sleep deprivation. :evil:

To summarize a long and rambling post: don´t cut yet, unless you really can´t stand it. And follow the two week rule, of course. Having a new baby is an ideal time to just forget your hair.


Oh, and since your DBF is going to stay at home and you are going to work: again, in my experience, this isn´t going to help you much on the sleep deprivation/baby vomit/ tiredness front. Ask my DBF what it was like. *more :evil:*

[Katze]

wow, thanks for all the quick advice!

Spidermom, I'm cutting about an inch every two months, and have already cut about 1.5 inches since taking my avatar pic. Still hovering at BSL, as I have been forever. :D

My ends are just...weird. They hang weird. My hair is so much smoother, and the damaged bits - but also the coarser, underneath hairs - look poofy and have no weight. This reminds me of when I first came here and tried oiling and stretching washes - my hair just doesn't feel clean, so the ends look...dryer in comparison, bumpy instead of wavy. I think I need to shampoo deeply again, though I just did this Sunday night (but not with SLS).

The need to deep clean is a common problem for me, and is getting more so the more pregnant I am - I do have to wash without any conditioner more and more often, though I do oil or use leave-in after washing.

What about taper, though? Will cutting get rid of it, or will I always have a thinner hemline? My hair feels quite thick at the nape and crown, but starts tapering about three inches from there, and then the taper is severe. It is moving down, but slowly, and I wonder what else I can do to get it blunt...and keep it there even after having a baby!

I feel like when my ends are blunt, they won't look so bad if they are kinked from braids, or a bit dry, or needing a wash, and hopefully I won't have these stray wisps poking out of hairdos!

It's nice to hear that not all moms lose hair after giving birth. I'm shedding quite normally, so I don't see how much more I can lose. Hopefully this is something like nausea that I won't get...

thanks everyone, good food for thought!

[Deborah]

I think you need a good cut. Those bad ends have been bugging you for a very long time. Cut off the bottom 4 inches, and I think you would really like your hair ends for the first time in, well, maybe ever.

Judging by your photo, taking off 4 inches would still leave you quite a bit below shoulder length, so it ought to still fall and flow nicely, and be flattering to your face.

Of course it is up to you, but I think you would just feel better getting rid of a substantial chunk of the damaged hair.

I hope you find a solution that makes you happy very soon. :flower:

[Nightshade]

Katze- Have you tried shea rather than oils? Or a blend like Fox's shea cream? I have my own blend, and man alive does that make my ends behave way better than oils ever did.

May be worth a shot if you decide to live with them a bit longer.

[Peggy E.]

Having gone through pregnancy and struggling with my hair, as well as all kinds of other problems at the time, I'm going to advise you to leave your hair alone for now. Maybe wear it up more often, if it's really bothering you to see it down.

All those hormones working overtime do strange and unusual things to your body AND your hair. And after the baby you will have a period of intensive fall-out, this will scare you, believe me, but it stops and all is well, back to normal - well, however the new munchkin will allow your new "normal" to be fashioned, that is!

So, please, be gentle and kind to yourself and your hair right now. Big changes are taking place and you don't want to make a big cut right now that turns out to have been unnecessary, in the long run - or creates problems for you when the baby has arrived.

Congratulations and patience!

[Curlsgirl]

I for one cannot go without an SLS shampoo. My hair is way too limp and flat even with my hairtype. I use one about once or twice a week.

I would not cut right now at least very much because of the hormones going on during pregnancy. You can always wear your hair up though I know you don't like it that way very much. The baby will want to pull on it if you wear it down anyway. Trust me, when mine was small he pulled a knot in my head :eek:

Think very hard about this. I would say IF you do trim do about 2 inches at a time. Maybe you are oiling too much too. I wouldn't think fine hair could take that much oiling. Should you reconsider the brush also? I know I am a different hairtype but a brush is awfully hard on thin fragile ends. Just my 2 cents. I just want you to be happy! :love:

[jojo]

Personally i would cut the 4" off. I have read how unhappy you are with your ends and I feel that by getting rid of the thin ends would 1) give you the blunt hemline you want and 2) get rid of the dyed bits forever and 3) would probably grow quicker.

I feel your old ends are breaking causing slower growth and thin ends. Katze it may take longer to grow but you will feel happier about your hair. If you find taking 4" off a bit too much, why not cut 2" off this month and another in a months time and see how you feel.

I hope you find some solution which gives you peace and I totally understand, my hair is not in my good books at the moment! xx

[wintersun99]

I agree with cutting. The number one reason is that if you do, all the length you gain going forward is length you get to keep. Secondly, for peace of mind. Thirdly, for hair that you enjoy, that is healthy and that you are not fretting over, everyday. Good luck

[aisling]

You still haven't washed with a SLS shampoo? You haven't done a proper clarifying and here you've complained about your greasy and limp hair and how it doesn't get clean since May! Sorry, but I think you really should follow the good advice you get instead of complaining about the same thing over and over again.

May thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=4985) and September thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=11618).

[Dolly]

I agree with doing a good trim....maybe not the full amount, but a couple of inches at least. Then you may feel better about it. Pregnancy is definitely enough to worry about without fretting over your hair!

As far as post partum shedding.....I didn't shed any more than normally....in fact I was shedding less. The main change in my hair was that before I got pregnant, I was a regular perm-head. Every 3-4 months. After I had him, a perm would not hold (and I tried, 3 different times). My hair would be stick-straight within 3 weeks or less. Hormones do different things to every person. Stressing over POSSIBLE post-partum shedding won't do you any good at this point either.

Just try to relax and enjoy being pregnant!

[Carolyn]

I think pregnancy related cutting is not a good thing. Your hormones are going crazy. If you are cutting an inch every 2 months, that's really a lot off. It sounds like you are cutting off any new length now. Why make yourself miserable with shorter hair? Use that SLS shampoo. It's really not the evil thing a lot of people make it out to be. It's not going to hurt your hair if you use a good conditioner after shampooing.

I'm another one who had no thinning or hair issues after giving birth. It doesn't happen to every one.

[Anje]

Hi Katze. I know the ends and thinness have bothered you a long time, but I would say do not cut all the way up to shoulder-to-chin length. If you do that, you still won't be happy with your hair or how you look.

If you absolutely need to cut, maybe cut up to about APL. That'll still give you a nice bit of length, and from the pictures I'd say you'd have ends that are quite thick at that point.

Before you do anything else, though, get some good SLS shampoo and lather up. It might be just the thing to help the greasiness, and it might even kill some of the scalp cleavage (I know I get more cleavage when my hair's getting greasy).

[Katze]

You still haven't washed with a SLS shampoo? You haven't done a proper clarifying and here you've complained about your greasy and limp hair and how it doesn't get clean since May! Sorry, but I think you really should follow the good advice you get instead of complaining about the same thing over and over again.

May thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=4985) and September thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=11618).

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Aisling and anyone else!

In May and September my "sulfate" (but not SLS!) shampoos, without conditioning, "solved the problem". This time, they haven't! For whatever reason, I have good "natural" shampoos, but all without SLS. This is a new twist on a problem that I have indeed been "complaining about over and over again" because there isn't anywhere else I can get advice or help on this.

Part of it is "getting used to" my hair changing, I guess...even though I'd rather go back to more volume, dryer hair, with more wave and body and fullness. But if this is how it "really" is...flatter, straighter...then I can accept it, and cut off the ends that are always different from my length.

To everyone else, I am going to see how much I can get away with cutting off, but after a heavy shampoo (maybe with soap :pumpkin: ) tomorrow.

Apologies if anyone else besides Aisling thinks I'm whining. Actually, I'm not, so sorry if it came across that way. I LIKE my smoother crown, and LOVE the silver streak coming in. I am happier with my hair than I have ever been, but I want it to be happy and look good and to feel proud of it more often than I do. I like feeling good about myself and LHC has helped a lot with this, as no one "in real life" understands my hair obsession.

It's just the many weird changes that don't make sense to me. How can my hair go from "big" to flat in the space of weeks, and from spiral curls to almost straight? That's why I ask here...I'm enthusiastic and motivated (and a bit obsessed!), but not trying to be annoying. :)

[Curlsgirl]

This is a new twist on a problem that I have indeed been "complaining about over and over again" because there isn't anywhere else I can get advice or help on this.
Apologies if anyone else besides Aisling thinks I'm whining. Actually, I'm not, so sorry if it came across that way. I LIKE my smoother crown, and LOVE the silver streak coming in. I am happier with my hair than I have ever been, but I want it to be happy and look good and to feel proud of it more often than I do. I like feeling good about myself and LHC has helped a lot with this, as no one "in real life" understands my hair obsession.

It's just the many weird changes that don't make sense to me. How can my hair go from "big" to flat in the space of weeks, and from spiral curls to almost straight? That's why I ask here...I'm enthusiastic and motivated (and a bit obsessed!), but not trying to be annoying. :)

You're not annoying to me. I didn't take it as whining either. :)

[Dolly]

You're not annoying to me. I didn't take it as whining either. :)


Me either.

Most of it is probably hormones, hun. Do a SERIOUS wash. I would also probably limit the oiling for awhile. I can only do heavy oilings a couple times a week.....otherwise my fine hair objects....and LOUDLY.

Then, trim. However much you are comfortable with. BUT I wouldn't do a big chop.

[Hypnotica]

Ha. :)

My hair is doing that (not the texture thing) on a monthly basis or just when I thought I had found the *perfect* hair care routine. It does drive me crazy from time to time.

[teela1978]

Katze, I know you generally prefer a more natural haircare routine, but have you considered cones? They give my hair that sleek look. It makes my waves drop faster, but I find they keep my ends smoother and less tangly. The tradeoff is worth it to me. Perhaps you could find a natural-brand conditioner with cones?

[spidermom]

I didn't take it as whining exactly, more like fretting. With your fine hair, I would advise you cut way down on the oiling. I didn't pick up on that until somebody else mentioned it. Use 1 drop distributed among your fingers, stroked onto hair from ear-level down on damp clean hair - no more. Then oil a bit more the day or several hours prior to washing. OR don't oil at all. If your scalp is producing plenty of sebum, and you comb/brush it through your length, you probably don't need extra oil right now.

I got a short haircut after each of my babies (it was easier on me that way), so I can't remember if I had a bunch of shedding or not. As already stated, some don't, so try not to worry about that. Enjoy your pregnancy; it's a special time (in spite of awkwardness, swollen ankles, and other discomforts).

PS: My hair can go from big and wavy with lots of spiral curls to 1B flat in the space of a few hours, so don't worry about that either. It must be normal.

[girlcat36]

Katze, I think you should just go for a small trim, 1/2". You have put so much time into gaining length that I would hate to see you do something you will regret. Historically, my own hair has a tendency to have thin ends, no matter what the length is. I was always sad after a trim, because it did not solve the scraggly ends problem, and my hair ended up so much shorter. My hair would have to be chin-length to get a full hemline.
I would clarify, and maybe try some shea butter.

[Anje]

I'd also suggest cutting back on the oiling -- now that your hair is being oilier, you probably don't need it, except perhaps on the very ends. If it starts getting dry, you can start oiling again, or just slather on SMT mix, since your hair responds well to that.

FWIW, I find straight shea butter to be heavy and sticky for my fine hair, but I like the moisture in the shea butter conditioning cream enough to keep using it. (Sorry to those who love shea -- it's like putting modeling clay in my hair.)

[Babyfine]

I would just go for the small trim- you can always cut a bit more off later- but you can't glue it back on! I personally have to use a mild sulfate shampoo on my fine but wavy hair- tried going CO or non sulfate and I had problems.
Like SPidermom, I can go from waves and even a few ringlets to 1B, also.
I think if you cut too much off you might really be sorry later at the lost length.

My hair grew a lot faster during my pregnancies, (Unfortunately I chopped a lot off with DS2 (those hormones!!)) My hairstylist, who was reluctant to cut- told me-"everyone always wants to chop when they're pregnant!"
I think maybe adding a sulfate shampoo, and decreasing the oiling would help.
I can't use oil on my fine hair- except before shampooing.

[lora410]

why not just trim 1/4 inch each month and go from there. Even if you cut to shoulder you will still have taper later on and then be cutting yet again. I would honestly try to paper your scalp and maybe get off the sulfates and see if that actually helps any. Avalon biotin b-complex is really and the only shampoo I use because it throws my hair into a growth spurt and it is gentle. remember pregnancy also have your hormones all over the place which may explain the extra greases.

[Melisande]

I keep thinking that Lush BIG might be helpful. It's SLS, it's with sea salt, it's VERY strong. I dilute it like crazy and it's still strong. But I use it every four to six weeks for a very clean head.

It's expensive but it keeps forever if you use it diluted.

I always like my hair after washing with Big, but I can't use it more often than once. (For normal washes, I use Balea and Alverde.) Big gives body and so does a citric acid rinse.

Sheabutter and camelia oil mixed should be gentle to your ends and not weight them down. Camelia oil is great, so is olive butter - for me at least. (Avaiable at Behawe).

I wouldn't cut to an unflattering length. I would go for another trim and keep the length. Your hair has come such a long way with the micro trim method, and why punish yourself with a length you don't like and you can't put up?

You know it's a game of nerves, who gives up first, you or your ends ;-) Cut to see a nicer hemline, but don't go back to shoulder length. You will see, once you have your kitten, that your hair is the last thing you worry about. You won't remember that you HAVE hair. I don't remember post partum shed - my fingernails did crazy things but my hair was okay. A bit thinner but nothing dramatic.

Order a nice hairtoy, a Ficcare or elegant sticks or a beautiful wooden fork, perfect the French twist, flipped bun and other easy but elegant and simple styles, and wash as much as you need.

I remember that when you used from time to time a bit of cone-ish shampoo, you were very content. You may need to tweak your routine again, very frustrating but ultimately satisfying once you find the right routine.

I think you should put some hair photos side by side, take an honest look at the development, and congratulate yourself! You are too strict with your hair, it looks beautiful. Your old damage is soon a thing of the past.

Just take good care of yourself, get sleep, vitamins and exercise.

[Giggy2]

I think pregnancy related cutting is not a good thing. Your hormones are going crazy. If you are cutting an inch every 2 months, that's really a lot off. It sounds like you are cutting off any new length now. Why make yourself miserable with shorter hair? Use that SLS shampoo. It's really not the evil thing a lot of people make it out to be. It's not going to hurt your hair if you use a good conditioner after shampooing.

I'm another one who had no thinning or hair issues after giving birth. It doesn't happen to every one.


I'm with Carolyn on this one! I cut mine off during pregnancy and totally regretted it 9 years ago. I had some sheding but nothing to be fearful of.

You have pretty much the same hair type as me and oiling does not work for me, leaves me limp and seperated. I alternate sulfate free and sulfate shampoos and use cone conditioner along with a leave in cream or some moose to settle fly aways. You don't have to go all natural, just minimal minipulation is healthy for your hair.

I'm sure you look beautiful, healthy, and vibrant. French braiding when your hair is damp gives nice fullness. Unless you straightened and bleached/double processed your hair obsessively, I can't imagine your damage is as aweful as you state it is. :flower:

Hang in there little mama..

[Isilme]

Have you ever considered your hair might not like oils? I know parts of my hair can't stand oil, it makes it hard, crunchy and looks like it's going to break off.
If I had your hair I would take the hair to APL as shortest and get myself a really nice hairtoy, like a flexi 8 or something, or a ficcare and put it up every day, maybe a french twist would look good? Or, since you like to have your hair down, some kind of peacock twist?

[burns_erin]

Your hair might not like oils, or it might like a different oil better. I would say don't make a big cut, but now, while you still have time, try different things to your hair.

BTW< I think I will have to agree you are too hard on yourself about your hair, it looks pretty nice to me.

[rhubarbarin]

Another 'don't do a big cut' from me. I think you would regret it. Maybe go back to APL, but it would be a shame to do more..

Try washing with SLS, just once to see how it works. It does wonders for me - I never thought I would go back to shampoo, but I love it!! Once I gave up cones and started using all-natural products, I was cursed with limp, straggly hair that no shampoo bar or non-SLS shampoo could change. SLS also did away with my permanent scalp cleavage - it gives me enough body at the roots you can't see it at all now! And it's actually less drying for my hair than non-SLS shampoo. Weird.

I have to say.. I don't understand why you're so obsessed with blunt ends, Katze! Your hair is nice the way it is.. some of us just have taper (sometimes a lot of taper, I'm right there with you). You've come a long way in two years, the difference is visible in every picture. Your silver streak sounds neat, you're growing more healthy hair every day.. accept your hair for what it is and enjoy it! Yearning for no taper when your hair naturally tapers is like wishing for black hair instead of blonde, or 3b instead of 2a. If taper is so important to you that you would rather have shoulder-length hair, then by all means cut.

[Tangles]

Go for a trim, but definitely NOT 3-4 inches. Maybe one solid inch? I think you're fretting over nothing. If I don't use SLS shampoo every 2nd or 3rd day, my hair is flat on top and looks dreadful. That's very normal--it's only on LHC that many people seem to get away without sulphates.

[Honey39]

I say don't cut. I've stopped using oils and started using leave-in conditioners a lot more and they have really made my hair a lot prettier.

I think I would just put your hair up in a messy updo and forget about it for a while! A bit of benign neglect and all that, and you'll love how long your hair feels when you take it down again in a month or so.

Plus a week of change is really not very long. I have wurly hair, and sometimes I get a total mass of ringlets, and others I get gentle (frizzy, sigh) waves. It's very random. I thought it was tied up with my hair getting longer, but apparently not. So I wouldn't worry about a change just now, because odds are it will change to a mass of curls next week!!

I think you have very pretty hair, btw - I am very fond of that kind of silky, slinky hair that you have.

[Tangles]

I don't think you're whining, either! Though my hair isn't as fine as yours, I can relate to what you say about the textural inconsistencies of your hair. I go from 1c to 2b, sometimes within the same day--if you look in my photo album, you can see a pic of me with "poofy" hair and then with flat hair, that were taken a few minutes apart! I think you need to enjoy your hair, relax... and deal with problems as they come.

A big problem many of us have is wanting a set routine that will work all our lives. But, reality isn't that way. We need to learn to be product and routine whores. :P

[jojo]

I don't see it as whining at all more wanting advice, some people find the ideal routine pretty quickly others like you it just takes longer. This is the whole idea of forums like this, like I said my hair is not growing to plan either, I seem to take 6 steps forward and 10 steps back but I will get there and so will you. x

[Deborah]

Katze,

I don't think of your posts as 'whining.' (I consider that a pretty harsh assessment.) You just haven't found your best length and best routine yet, and you still have damaged hair to grow out and remove.

My hair is also extremely fine (think toddler hair, only lots more of it.) Oils are generally just too much for my hair. I have used shea nut butter on my ends, but I stopped even that, as of course some of that oil gets moved to the rest of the hair by combing, brushing, even just touching. I think really fine hair does not usually do well with oils. They weigh the hair down and cause it to look oily way to easily. Try going without oil for a while, and see if that doesn't solve some of your issues.

Don't let it get you down. :flower: In a relatively short time you will have grown out and cut off ALL the damaged hair. Your texture, color and condition will be so much nicer. You will be really glad that you did it.

[GlassEyes]

I vote the shea butter route first, if you can, but if the ends are driving you that mad I'd chop them.

As to the the whining, I don't think it matters. You haven't found a way to be happy with your hair yet, and you're just trying to establish a way to do so. Regardless of whether you're 'whining' or not shouldn't matter; just because you made two thereads doesn't mean the poblem is resolved. Just be open to trying some of the presented solutions.

Simple as that.

[Katze]

great ideas, all.

After sleeping on it I realize that, while the issues are the same as when I posted before, seeking ideas, I have learned that I need to shampoo heavily regularly (and did that Sunday night, then posted this thread on Tuesday...) and that is NOT the problem. Even my hair getting 'dirtier' so much faster isn't the problem. So this post is NOT the same as before! I am NOT being an idiot, really! :D

Probably it's the oils. I had about a week where oils every couple of days towards the end of the wash cycle were giving me softer, shinier, sleeker hair. I think the added shine I have now is a result of oiling. BUT so is the flatness, the weird 'poof' at the ends, and I've got a lot of scalp crustiness going on (which is why, incidentally, more than occasional 'cone use isn't for me).

I think pregnancy has shifted my sebum into high gear, as I've actually also got pimples here and there which I never had before - having to rethink skin care, too, as OCM isn't getting it clean on its own.

Cutting...I will probably just stick with what I have been doing. My taper doesn't look good, IMO, and makes me self-conscious about my hair. When I see someone with ends as thin as mine in real life, I think, 'oh, the poor thing, she should cut' - but while I AM cutting the thinnest ends every two months, the taper is still severe. You all are right, though - it is probably natural, genetic, and unavoidable.

Getting a routine or even knowing what my hair likes is really hard! I wish I had been able to sort it out by now. I have definitely had periods of months when CWC and WO worked well, misting and leave-in and some hair gel gave me bouncy, soft (but not shiny) hair with lazy spiral waves in the length. Now I have sleek, shiny hair without waves, just bumps, from the same routine.

I will chalk my hair fretting up to pregnancy, and wait to cut (besides S&D) until December, thus, hopefully, maximizing the thickening-up that is hopefully happening.

And when I go shopping today I will get myself some cheap nasty SLS shampoo! :D

thanks again everyone for listening...

Katze

[Speedbump]

I am in the "cut it" club too. I let the GM stylist talk me into NOT cutting my horrible ends, but just get a dusting this past weekend and I am already regretting it. There comes a point where babying bad ends is just an exercise in frustrated futility and you just need to cut 'em the heck off to be happy and to keep the damage from creeping up the hair shafts.

That being said, I wouldn't go with 4 inches. I'd start with 2 inches and see how I liked it. If it still felt like crap on the ends or was still doing weirdness, I'd chop the other 2 inches. Every time I have gotten rid of severe damage it has been a blessing, even if I missed the length.

Good luck! :D

[Debra83]

I'm one that also did not have shedding after my pregnancy...and during my pregnancy I went from shoulder length to belt length - it was incredible. When the baby came, I cut it short - ear length - in a moment of insanity - but in the following year of nursing - it grew to between bsl and waist - where I insanely cut it again shorter than ears!!! I should have been locked up!!! (but actually really enjoyed the style for quite a long time). Now, no pregnancy - but I want long hair again - and it is taking FOREVER. sigh. I guess the grass is always greener on the other side?

[Gothic Lolita]

I wouldn't cut it too short, but if cutting a little would make you happier, then go for it.
Just consider that you might want to have a little length when the baby is due, so that you can put it up while nursing, so it won't get in the way. Also, babys like to grab long hair and pull!

[Katze]

I realized after swimming again for the first time in weeks ( semester started, had a cold) that the oiling must have been good while I was swimming often, but probably isn't good otherwise. I had moved from one drop of oil on damp hair to brushing and heavy oilings the evening before a swim. When I swim, I shampoo intensively, then blow-damp and clip my hair LOOSELY - Ficcare or claw, no elastics - and don't touch it again, I get nice hair.

But oiling without the extra drying activities - chlorine and blowdryer - seemed to be a bad idea.

I will consider cutting a couple of inches as planned, because even a cut of 3-4 inches won't get rid of taper, and then hope and pray that I don't go through a big postpartum shed and can preserve at least the thickness I now have between crown and nape!

thanks again everyone for helping me to try and figure my complicated hair out!

[Arctic]

I would cut the damage if it would be me, 2 inches at the time sounds good. At most I would cut to APL, not neck-length. The ends have, like others have said, caused you misery for as long as I have been a member here (more than a year) and propably longer than that. If you would get rid of them now you could still reap the benefits of the pregnancy growth and give the new baby hair a better chance to catch up.

Hope you'll find a routine that works! I think it's quite common that the needs of our hair changes and so does the routines, be the reason behind it season, hormones, water supply, what ever.

[Tressie]

I'm going with the wait group! You can wear your hair up and out of the way, and then after the baby comes, you can ALWAYS cut your hair if you feel sure it's the way to go.:shrug: :o

[Arctic]

One more thing: I have understod you have SD, right? Heavy oil usage might aggravate the condition, as well as not washing often enough. I have a problem scalp too and while my hair has loved many LHC-style hair care experiments, my scalp often protests. I have put the scalp health at first, and hair the second. I'm also positive it is possible to have both healthy hair and scalp.

[Chromis]

wow, thanks for all the quick advice!

Spidermom, I'm cutting about an inch every two months, and have already cut about 1.5 inches since taking my avatar pic. Still hovering at BSL, as I have been forever. :D

My ends are just...weird. They hang weird. My hair is so much smoother, and the damaged bits - but also the coarser, underneath hairs - look poofy and have no weight. This reminds me of when I first came here and tried oiling and stretching washes - my hair just doesn't feel clean, so the ends look...dryer in comparison, bumpy instead of wavy. I think I need to shampoo deeply again, though I just did this Sunday night (but not with SLS).

The need to deep clean is a common problem for me, and is getting more so the more pregnant I am - I do have to wash without any conditioner more and more often, though I do oil or use leave-in after washing.

What about taper, though? Will cutting get rid of it, or will I always have a thinner hemline? My hair feels quite thick at the nape and crown, but starts tapering about three inches from there, and then the taper is severe. It is moving down, but slowly, and I wonder what else I can do to get it blunt...and keep it there even after having a baby!

I feel like when my ends are blunt, they won't look so bad if they are kinked from braids, or a bit dry, or needing a wash, and hopefully I won't have these stray wisps poking out of hairdos!

It's nice to hear that not all moms lose hair after giving birth. I'm shedding quite normally, so I don't see how much more I can lose. Hopefully this is something like nausea that I won't get...

thanks everyone, good food for thought!

Blunt ends stop braid kink?! :laugh:

Oooh, that's a good one!

Here, allow me to show you something from a few inches ago:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/85/216098236_b494f7d37b_m.jpg
My hemline was quite blunt at the time and my ends were nice and soft when not braided. That tassel is sticking straight up in ten directions at once and was bristlier than my BBB!

I would say since it seems your hair bothers you so, to get a nice silk scarf or slap a wig over it for a while. Then when you've gotten to say waist, trim it back to BSL to blunt it up. BSL is pretty short already and I would not want to go any shorter and risk not being able to put it up fully. You're likely getting more damage from wearing it loose all the time as is.

[brok3nwings]

katze oh i woudnt cut it right now. Just cut what you think it is damaged with no repair... and leave it alone. If you want long hair that is the best way to go, otherwise you will be constantly "fixing" your hair! Dont do something that you may regret after! You should show us some picture of your hair now so we can avaluate better.. but you are pregnant dear, dont just rush into the first thing that comes into your mind!

[brok3nwings]

katze i would do the same as you. I would buy some SLS shampoo. I would even buy a clarifying one with SLS! and then i would put a very LIGHT diluted conditioner at my ends... and thats it. i must tell you. i have friends with oily, flat hair, those normally are the shiniest hairs existing. BUT they dont use conditioner. They wash everyday with shampoo. Their very ends are the only part of the hair where i can see dryness. So you should probably moisturize ONLY the very ends of your hair, and let the natural oils of your scalp reach the rest with combing. Too much oil, too much anything isnt good for hair, IMO

[Debra83]

katze i would do the same as you. I would buy some SLS shampoo. I would even buy a clarifying one with SLS! and then i would put a very LIGHT diluted conditioner at my ends... and thats it. i must tell you. i have friends with oily, flat hair, those normally are the shiniest hairs existing. BUT they dont use conditioner. They wash everyday with shampoo. Their very ends are the only part of the hair where i can see dryness. So you should probably moisturize ONLY the very ends of your hair, and let the natural oils of your scalp reach the rest with combing. Too much oil, too much anything isnt good for hair, IMO
What does IMO mean please?

[Robbi Dehlinger]

Debra83

IN MY OPINION:)

[Katze]

Blunt ends stop braid kink?! :laugh:

Oooh, that's a good one!

Here, allow me to show you something from a few inches ago:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/85/216098236_b494f7d37b_m.jpg
My hemline was quite blunt at the time and my ends were nice and soft when not braided. That tassel is sticking straight up in ten directions at once and was bristlier than my BBB!

I would say since it seems your hair bothers you so, to get a nice silk scarf or slap a wig over it for a while. Then when you've gotten to say waist, trim it back to BSL to blunt it up. BSL is pretty short already and I would not want to go any shorter and risk not being able to put it up fully. You're likely getting more damage from wearing it loose all the time as is.

Thanks Chromis. Actually, I was hoping that my ends would look BETTER when kinked, not so fluffy. Nothing will stop braid kink with my hair, so I only braid on days before washing.

BSL is LONG for me, even if it isn't for this site. :) But because of trims, I've been at BSL for a long time, and I can't really do a lot of updos - my hair is very uncooperative. I have been trying to wear it up to protect it more, but I get so bored of "twist and clip" which is about all I can do with my thin ends, scalp cleavage, wisps, and layers. I watched my sister fold her hair into elegant half-pony-half-bun things that STAYED all day long, without wisps or messiness, and just felt discouraged.

I really like having my hair look good and wearing it down. Isn't that the point? I keep it out of the wind, zippers, etc., treat it gently, and use leave-in on the ends. The crown is getting so thick, I've got baby hairs poking out down the length from my part to my shoulders, but from that point on it just gets thin-looking.

Anyway, I did cut the longest, thinnest ends off last night, about another inch, and did notice that the taper is pretty much the same from ends to shoulder, so there wasn't much point in cutting more. While it's hard to have my hair never grow longer, it is thickening up slowly and looking better. I will keep doing gradual trims like this as infrequently as I can stand it.

Having a baby makes you forget you have hair....!?!? Wow, I can't wait! :D

heh heh

Katze

[venividibxtchy]

One more thing: I have understod you have SD, right? Heavy oil usage might aggravate the condition, as well as not washing often enough. I have a problem scalp too and while my hair has loved many LHC-style hair care experiments, my scalp often protests. I have put the scalp health at first, and hair the second. I'm also positive it is possible to have both healthy hair and scalp.

I definitely agree. I have SD as well, and I've tried all of the gimmicks and treatments out there.

I'm sure I'll be flamed for this, but the entire field of dermatology does not recognize the validity of feedback theory (that if you wash more, your skin will produce more oil to compensate, etc.). Sebu-tape tests have proven that sebum continues to be produced at the same rate, inexorably, whether or not you choose to be a stankho and leave it, or not.

If you have truly split ends, they're not going to revive themselves and they're just going to have to be cut. The longer you wait, the longer the hair could've grown in the meantime.

[spidermom]

I'm sure I'll be flamed for this, but the entire field of dermatology does not recognize the validity of feedback theory (that if you wash more, your skin will produce more oil to compensate, etc.). Sebu-tape tests have proven that sebum continues to be produced at the same rate, inexorably, whether or not you choose to be a stankho and leave it, or not.


This is exactly my experience. About one year into reading on this site, I experimented extensively with going longer between washings, and the only "adjustment" I achieved was becoming accustomed to having dirtier hair.

[Katze]

I definitely agree. I have SD as well, and I've tried all of the gimmicks and treatments out there.

I'm sure I'll be flamed for this, but the entire field of dermatology does not recognize the validity of feedback theory (that if you wash more, your skin will produce more oil to compensate, etc.). Sebu-tape tests have proven that sebum continues to be produced at the same rate, inexorably, whether or not you choose to be a stankho and leave it, or not.

If you have truly split ends, they're not going to revive themselves and they're just going to have to be cut. The longer you wait, the longer the hair could've grown in the meantime.

I have to second both you and Spidermom, too. Stretching washings - after the initial adjustment period - just gets me hair I don't like. Still, because my ends are so fragile (not all split, actually, I have much LESS splitting than before) but because they are damaged - I like to wait 2-3 days before washing. Being pregnant, though, I have to wash more often. But I'm not sure about waiting longer vs. cutting now - I have been trimming, and my hair hasn't grown more in the meantime!

Still, I think if people DO overwash, their scalp can start producing more oil in response. It's kind of a fine line, IMO...especially with SD, which is, after all, a form of eczema, a sign that things are out of balance one way or another.

[ktani]

I have to second both you and Spidermom, too. Stretching washings - after the initial adjustment period - just gets me hair I don't like. Still, because my ends are so fragile (not all split, actually, I have much LESS splitting than before) but because they are damaged - I like to wait 2-3 days before washing. Being pregnant, though, I have to wash more often. But I'm not sure about waiting longer vs. cutting now - I have been trimming, and my hair hasn't grown more in the meantime!

Still, I think if people DO overwash, their scalp can start producing more oil in response. It's kind of a fine line, IMO...especially with SD, which is, after all, a form of eczema, a sign that things are out of balance one way or another.

If you are getting less spitting than before on damaged hair, then you are definitely doing something right.

I have eczema too but a very mild form, that normally does not bother me. On top of that, my scalp became sensitized to certain conventional ingredients because of a badly formulated conditioner.

Stretched out washings or frequent washings are a matter of what you can personally tolerate IMO, and the products that you use. I go by how my hair and scalp look and feel at the time.

As for the trimming, I think that you have that under control too but it can be difficult to decide at times, what to do. I now trim when I think my hair needs it, as opposed to timed intervals, like I used to do.

[MsBubbles]

Sebu-tape tests have proven that sebum continues to be produced at the same rate, inexorably, whether or not you choose to be a stankho and leave it, or not.

:lol::lol: ok that is hilarious! And I concur from my own lousy experience.

Katze, please don't compare yourself unfavorably with your sister and her updos!

[spidermom]

But I'm not sure about waiting longer vs. cutting now - I have been trimming, and my hair hasn't grown more in the meantime!


I think one of the reasons I like doing more of a cut all at once is because I like change. I maintained hip length most of this year to slowly cut away obvious, snarling damage. I have not enjoyed it. I enjoyed it much more back in 2005 when I cut from almost-waist to APL to get rid of Velcro ends because of the variety, also the fact that I was able to then grow it with only minor trims all the way to hips. Once those bad ends are gone, you can stop fretting about when to cut, how much to cut, and so forth.

[maskedrose]

Wow Katze, you've gotten a lot of responses in the last couple of days!

Personally, I'm on the cut bandwagon. I know your ends have been driving you crazy for the last couple of years, but you have said multiple times (and pics prove it) that your thickness is slowly moving down the length. Cutting 4-5 inches would leave you with below-shoulder length hair that should include a lot of your new growth - hence a thicker hemline. It seems to me that it might be easier for you to put it up, etc at this length, since you could do peacock twists (with thicker plumes :)), thicker ponytales, and other easy, quick styles. I know you struggle with braided and bunned styles now, and I'm pretty sure you aren't going to want to mess with your hair for more than 5 minutes when you have a little one demanding attention.

Why not be rid of your icky ends, once and for all? No more orange straw bits, just beautiful, puma-colored, healthy hair. Like everyone else has said, you will probably be so distracted by your little angel that one day you will look in the mirror and go "hey, look! It's BSL again! How did that happen?"