PDA

View Full Version : Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

ktani
June 18th, 2008, 01:45 PM
Here is a honey conversion table. See "Convert cup of honey into grams g, ounces oz or tablespoons."
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

That is pretty close to this from "Nutrition Facts" See "Serving size".
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/sweets/5568/2

Sissilonghair
June 18th, 2008, 02:02 PM
Hi ktani,
what can you tell me about the oak chestnut honey,that is a very dark one I can find it in the stores were I live,but I don't know if it is good for lightning .

ktani
June 18th, 2008, 02:16 PM
Sissilonghair

I have never heard of oak chestnut honey but I think that there are many types of honey from different plant sources.

A quick search of chestnuts however revealed that they are high in Vitamin C.

"Chestnuts differ from most nuts .... they are higher in vitamin C"
http://www.luvnpeas.org/edibility/edibleFiles/references.html

How that would translate into a chestnut honey - I am not sure.

Other than avoiding the honeys high in Vitamin C - listed in the recommendations - See #9, I would not concentrate on a single type of honey except for Jarrah honey.

That is why I recommend buying a cheap dark coloured honey blend - see #1 or using the Successful Honeys List - also See #1.

A blend IMO, increases your chances of trying a honey with a higher peroxide value - until I can get the Jarrah honey suppliers list ready.

Jarrah honey on average is noted for having a very high peroxide value.

Sissilonghair
June 18th, 2008, 02:30 PM
Sorry that is the way is called over here but doesn't not comes from chestnuts,I guess it has that name because of the colour,it has a strong scent and is a little bitter,that is what I was reading from a research...

ktani
June 18th, 2008, 02:34 PM
Sissilonghair

I did find references on the net to a bitter honey that is sourced from chestnut blossoms - blossoms from all plants are where bees get the nectar and pollen needed to make honey.

"Italian Chestnut honey .... gift from the chestnut orchard."
http://www.babbonyc.com/in-chestnuts.html

"Chestnut honey .... pungent and unmistakable flavor .... aftertaste .... reminiscent of .... bitter almond ...."
http://www.foodandwine.com/recipes/crepes-with-ricotta-and-chestnut-honey

Until I can get the Jarrah honey post ready - I still think that you are better off with a cheap, dark coloured honey blend, after reading recommendation #9.

According to this, chestnut honey is high in iron - not good for a peroxide value - hydrogen peroxide is negatively affected by metals - iron included. See "Different kinds of honey on the market"
http://www.consumerbuyguide.com/guides/food_beverage/honey.html

ktani
June 18th, 2008, 05:43 PM
I added the honey conversion table to all versions of the recommendations post.

See #1
See "Convert cup of honey into grams g, ounces oz or tablespoons." http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

1 cup is normally 8 fluid oz but 1 cup of honey is 12 oz.

1 cup of water is only 237 grams
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/beverages/9238/2

This website is in agreement on honey - 1 gram shy of 340 for 1 cup.
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/sweets/5568/2

1/4 cup of honey would be 85 grams or 4 tablespoons. So you would need 340 grams or 16 tablespoons of water for every 1/4 cup of honey.

"Weigh 10 g honey .... mix with 40 g .... distilled water."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

That is the minimum - so just go from there.

That is easier, IMO.

ktani
June 18th, 2008, 09:02 PM
I edited the recommendation posts - to reflect that the water is done by weight - e.g. 40 grams water to 10 grams honey.

So simple but weight is the key.

Loreyanne_H
June 19th, 2008, 03:29 AM
I'm trying for the first time the honey way to get a light in your hair LOL

I tried:
* 2 tablespoons honey
* 8 tablespoons mild water from tap
* 1 coffeespoon cinnamon powder.

I've covered my hair with a plastic cap and in 20 minutes it will be done :)

ktani
June 19th, 2008, 05:51 AM
Loreyanne_H

Thank you for your recipe.

It sounds good. Distilled water is recommended, however tap water should work just fine - depending on the mineral content of you water - perhaps not as well as distilled water can work.

I look forward to your results!

ktani
June 19th, 2008, 06:03 AM
Jarrah honey is known to have a very high peroxide value.

"Manuka honey .... New Zealand honey .... peroxide levels of about 18 per cent on average .... But we’re finding peroxide levels 54 per cent higher, with an average of about 28 per cent .... a very big increase ...."
http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/stories/s494171.htm

see "Comparing Different Types of Honey" - date 2008
" .... Jarrah honey .... contains higher amounts of glucose oxidase .... "
http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/nem175

Glucose oxidase is the enzyme in honey that generates hydrogen peroxide.

Jarrah honey suppliers I found and contacted June 2008 - prices and shipping costs vary as will stock amounts.

1. Their price list and they report Jarrah honey in stock. They do ship internationally.
Prices
http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html)
Contact page
http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html)

2. Yes to Jarrah honey in stock and they ship internationally. This one seems to be fast on replies to inquiries.
Contact page
http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm)
Order page with prices
http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm)


Jarrah honey reports (Jarrah honey was used in both cases after other honey was tried. Jarrah honey made a difference, IMO, as well as the new dilution and better water choices).

Alley Cat - on chemically dyed, almost black, previously hennaed hair (which shows as red) - 4 to 1 dilution - after 9 treatments - 8 with no conditioner - 3 with ground cinnamon - the last 5 with just water and honey, the 3 most recent with distilled water and the new dilution
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=167875&postcount=1492

Aley Cat - on the condition of her hair following honey lightening
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=168110&postcount=1495

Alley Cat - more on the condition of her hair following her 9th honey lightening treatment - which was with Jarrah honey, which has a very high peroxide value
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=176704&postcount=1596

gallows gallery - dyed black hair over henna on the condition of her hair after 6 honey lightening treatments, the new dilution and Jarrah honey
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=336261&postcount=2637

gallows gallery earlier pics, dyed black hair over henna, the new dilution
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=336307&postcount=2638

gallows gallery new pics, dyed black hair over henna, the new dilution and Jarrah honey
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=342871&postcount=2780

Sissilonghair
June 19th, 2008, 06:31 AM
Sissilonghair

I did find references on the net to a bitter honey that is sourced from chestnut blossoms - blossoms from all plants are where bees get the nectar and pollen needed to make honey.

"Italian Chestnut honey .... gift from the chestnut orchard."
http://www.babbonyc.com/in-chestnuts.html

"Chestnut honey .... pungent and unmistakable flavor .... aftertaste .... reminiscent of .... bitter almond ...."
http://www.foodandwine.com/recipes/crepes-with-ricotta-and-chestnut-honey

Until I can get the Jarrah honey post ready - I still think that you are better off with a cheap, dark coloured honey blend, after reading recommendation #9.

According to this, chestnut honey is high in iron - not good for a peroxide value - hydrogen peroxide is negatively affected by metals - iron included. See "Different kinds of honey on the market"
http://www.consumerbuyguide.com/guides/food_beverage/honey.html
That was so interesting to read ktani ,I want to thank you again for the care you have about sending me all these informations...remember I will be always glad:)

ktani
June 19th, 2008, 06:37 AM
Sissilonghair

I am happy to help.

The Jarrah honey in my opionion is a good bet for honey lightening. I can of course not promise anything but the information on its peroxide value is reliable as far as I am concerned.

However, I do not know how the prices and shipping will turn out.

They did have a drought earlier in the season in that region of Australia - the Jarrah forrest and stock will be more expensive and in short supply until the new honey comes in.

There will hopefully be new stock soon.

Sissilonghair
June 19th, 2008, 07:05 AM
Jarrah honey is known to have a very high peroxide value.

“WA scientists claim jarrah honey benefit
…. Manuka honey .... New Zealand honey .... peroxide levels of about 18 per cent on average .... But we’re finding peroxide levels 54 per cent higher, with an average of about 28 per cent .... a very big increase ...."
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Jarrah.pdf (http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Jarrah.pdf)

Jarrah honey suppliers I found and contacted - prices and shipping costs vary as will stock amounts.
There are no doubt more suppliers out there - this to start you off. As more are reported, I will add them to this list.

International shipping will be noted with an asterisk - *

1. Their price list and they report Jarrah honey in stock. I do not know about international shipping. They did not report back to me on that.
Prices
http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html)
Contact page
http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html)

*2. Yes to Jarrah honey in stock and they ship internationally. This one seems to be fast on replies to inqiries.
Contact page
http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm)
Order page with prices
http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm)

3. I contacted these people - Tuesday June 17/08 - waiting to hear back about international shipping and stock. I will update when I hear back.
Contact page
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/contact.htm (http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/contact.htm)
Prices and email
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Products.pdf (http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Products.pdf)

There was a 4th supplier but they reported insufficient stock due to the drought.
I was looking at the very interesting site and their price are not bad at all...I am worried about the shipping cost though.
I was reading that this type of honey is good even if you get a cut..it is a good antibacterial...

ktani
June 19th, 2008, 07:18 AM
I adjusted/removed the bold text in the Jarrah honey post, corrected spelling, added "yet" to a supplier's information, edited out the reference to a missing 4th supplier - and added the post link to all recommendations posts - anyone who saved a recommendations link is now fully up to date. I will update that post as needed.

This is one of the recommendations links - they are all the same. See #10
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

ktani
June 19th, 2008, 07:21 AM
Sissilonghair

Yes, prices and shipping will be a concern.

There is supposed to be - if the weather permits - new Jarrah honey coming soon - that should help lower prices - shipping I cannot say - the prices will vary.

Hopefully there will be more than one supplier who ships internationally - I could at this time - only confirm one.

As to the antibacterial aspects of the honey - yes - the peroxide value is key for that - UMF manuka honey is also excellent - it has the Unique Manuka Factor - which is separate from the peroxide value - and helps fight infection.

ktani
June 19th, 2008, 08:03 AM
Jarrah honey is known to have a very high peroxide value.

“WA scientists claim jarrah honey benefit
Manuka honey .... New Zealand honey .... peroxide levels of about 18 per cent on average .... But we’re finding peroxide levels 54 per cent higher, with an average of about 28 per cent .... a very big increase ...."
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Jarrah.pdf

see "Comparing Different Types of Honey" - date 2008
"found Jarrah honey .... contains higher amounts of glucose oxidase .... significantly more effective against Candida spp. in vitro ...."
http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/nem175

Glucose oxidase is the enzyme in honey that produces hydrogen peroxide.

Jarrah honey suppliers I found and contacted - prices and shipping costs vary as will stock amounts. There are no doubt more suppliers out there - this to start you off. As more are reported, I will add them to this list.

International shipping will be noted with an asterisk - *

*1. Their price list and they report Jarrah honey in stock. They do provide international shipping.
Prices
http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html)
Contact page
http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html)

*2. Yes to Jarrah honey in stock and they ship internationally. This one seems to be fast on replies to inquiries.
Contact page
http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm)
Order page with prices
http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm)

3. I contacted these people - Tuesday June 17/08 - waiting to hear back about international shipping and stock. I will update when I hear back.
Contact page
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/contact.htm (http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/contact.htm)
Prices and email
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Products.pdf (http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Products.pdf)

In addition to some text editing - removing bold and the reference to a 4th supplier who did not have stock - I added more current information on Jarrah honey, which supports the information in the pdf - the link above it.

ktani
June 19th, 2008, 11:03 AM
I found and emailed another Jarrah honey supplier - I am waiting to hear back and will only add them to the list if they do reply - I have no idea if they have stock or what their shipping is like in terms of whether they ship internationally.

The drought in Australia has put stock at risk for some suppliers but not all and not all websites are updated.

ktani
June 19th, 2008, 04:31 PM
A Comprehensive Summary of the newest honey lightening recommendations. Patch test any ingredient not previously used on the scalp or skin.

These recommendations are based on accredited research and successful honey lightening reports in this thread.

1. The 4 to 1 dilution is 4 parts water to 1 part honey. It is now the recommended dilution to be used for honey lightening. With this dilution, a treatment only needs to be left on the hair for 1 hour, because a honey will produce its maximum amount of peroxide in that time. The minimum amount of honey to be used is 10 grams. Here is a honey conversion table - See "Convert cup of honey into grams g, ounces oz or tablespoons." Use 4 times the amount of water by weight, e.g. 40 grams water to 10 grams of honey. You can also convert to ml, because 1 gram = 1 ml.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html
According to reports posted in this thread, better results were achieved with the 4 to 1 dilution in 1 hour, than with repeated treatments using the old dilutions. Different honeys produce different levels of peroxide. Here is the Successful Honeys List - if one cannot be found - try a dark coloured honey blend - raw or pasteurized - both have been reported to work equally well.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=119128&postcount=856itamin

2. Distilled water is recommended to be used for honey lightening in place of plain water. It is a better choice, for getting the best results from a honey lightening recipe because hydrogen peroxide can decompose in contact with certain minerals. More information on distilled water can be found here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=146265&postcount=1173

3. The honey lightening boosters - ingredients that add extra peroxide to the recipes are; ground cardamom, ground cinnamon, coconut oil, extra virgin olive oil.
Spices can be irritating - less is more with the 4 to 1 dilution - start with 1 tablespoon after patch testing - suggested maximum - 2 tablespoons.
Oils can be difficult to wash out of the hair - suggested amount - 1 tablespoon.

4. Herbal teas if used instead of straight distilled water - chamomile - Roman chamomile is preferable but it is possible that chamomile can add a gold tone to the hair. Mullein - leaves only not flowers - the leaves are not known to add colour. The herbal tea should be brewed with distilled water.

5. Herbal tea that is used with honey lightening needs to be cooled first to room temperature before any other ingredients are added to it. Do not add spices to a recipe after you have applied the recipe to your hair - if any dry spice spills - you risk skin irritation - mix the spices into a recipe. The spices will blend better, mixed into herbal tea, when the honey is added first.

6. For blondes, lighter hair colours, and hair colours where one does not want the possibility of added colour, distilled water is better than risking added colour by using a herbal tea.

7. Distilled water used with honey lightening should be room temperature only. Do not add spices to a recipe after you have applied the recipe to your hair - if any dry spice spills - you risk skin irritation - mix the spices into a recipe. The spices will blend better, mixed into water, when the honey is added first.

8. No external heat should be used with honey lightening - no blow dryers, sunlight. None of the recipe ingredients except herbal tea should be heated at any time. Heat (except body heat) can destroy hydrogen peroxide by decomposing it to water and oxygen. It depends on the degree of heat and the amount of time that it is applied. Pasteurization does not destroy the enzyme in honey that produces peroxide.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=119678&postcount=883

9. No ingredients that contain Vitamin C, (except ground cardamom, which has the highest peroxide value for a spice and a low Vitamin C level), should be used in the recipes. Hydrogen peroxide oxidizes Vitamin C and is depleted in doing so. Some honeys naturally contain higher levels of Vitamin C. Avoid using Anzer, buckwheat, linden flower, locust flower, mint and thyme honeys. Most honeys contain very low levels. Here is a list of ingredients that contain Vitamin C.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=83009&postcount=429

10. Jarrah honey, from Australia, is known for its very high peroxide value and is a good choice for honey lightening. Information on Jarrah honey and current suppliers can be found here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=157257&postcount=1266

11. Conditioner is no longer recommended to be included in honey lightening recipes. Conditioner can contain ingredients that interfere with honey lightening and because of its water content (most conditioners are between 70 to 90 % water), if used as part of the 4 to 1 ratio, shorten the amount of water needed for optimal honey dilution. You can use conditioner only, to wash out a honey lightening treatment, instead of using shampoo or just rinsing it out. If there is honey residue, shampoo and or a vinegar rinse is recommended and has been reported to easily resolve the problem.

12. The honey lightening recipes can be applied with a tint or blush brush for more control of placement.

13. Cover the hair during the 1 hour needed for the treatments, with plastic, a bag, wrap or shower cap, to ensure the best results. This provides a constant moisture level, and allows the honey to produce peroxide uninterrupted. If the hair starts to dry, the honey slows its production of peroxide and it will stop producing peroxide altogether, if the hair dries completely. An option is misting the hair without the use of plastic, provided that the hair is kept wet at all times during the treatment. Honey only produces peroxide when diluted and kept wet. The treatments can be left on the hair longer than 1 hour, if so desired. You can also let a recipe sit for 1 hour before applying it, to allow the honey to produce its maximum peroxide value.

14. Honey lightening has not been reported to damage hair even after repeated use, over long periods of time. What has been reported occasionally is dry hair and crunchy ends. That is a honey residue result, and can easily be resolved by shampooing and or a vinegar rinse. The effects are temporary when shampoo and or vinegar are used. Some honeys leave less residues than others. More on honey lightening, and research on the protective mechanisms in honey lightening recipe ingredients, can be found here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=127314&postcount=1035

15. This is the updated Pictures Post of some past and current Honey thread, honey lightening results.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095


The recommendations - updated.

mommy2one05
June 19th, 2008, 08:39 PM
Ok so I was gonna try the honey and water in a misting bottle today. I mixed it up and was gonna let it set for one hour before putting on my hair but then I had to leave the house unexpectedly for some errends and it set for alot longer than an hour so now can I still use it or will it not have the lightening properties? If I can then can I mix it up the night before I plan to spray it on my hair?
Now I mixed 1 cup water and 1/4 cup honey...am I right with that?

ktani
June 19th, 2008, 08:58 PM
Ok so I was gonna try the honey and water in a misting bottle today. I mixed it up and was gonna let it set for one hour before putting on my hair but then I had to leave the house unexpectedly for some errends and it set for alot longer than an hour so now can I still use it or will it not have the lightening properties? If I can then can I mix it up the night before I plan to spray it on my hair?
Now I mixed 1 cup water and 1/4 cup honey...am I right with that?

mommy2one05

You should still be able to use what you mixed.

I know realize for 1/4 cup of honey you need 340 grams of water - or 16 tablespoons.

Using a mister is fine - you can cover your hair or let it dry - both should work - I am not so sure about the let it dry part - that is theory.

If you use a fresh mix - not left to sit - you will need to cover your hair with plastic for the hour so that the honey can produce peroxide with a constant moisture level.

mommy2one05
June 19th, 2008, 09:41 PM
mommy2one05

You should still be able to use what you mixed.

I know realize for 1/4 cup of honey you need 340 grams of water - or 16 tablespoons.

Using a mister is fine - you can cover your hair or let it dry - both should work - I am not so sure about the let it dry part - that is theory.

If you use a fresh mix - not left to sit - you will need to cover your hair with plastic for the hour so that the honey can produce peroxide with a constant moisture level.



ok thanks so much for your help
so if I understand right I could even use more of what is in my mist bottle if i don't use it all this time...like maybe in a couple days?

ktani
June 19th, 2008, 09:46 PM
mommy2one05

I do not know how long the mix will stay potent - certainly for a few hours.

I usually recommend making a fresh batch each time.

I would not keep a batch - refridgerated - more that a few days max.

ktani
June 19th, 2008, 10:21 PM
mommy2one05

Good luck with the treatment.

Please feel free to pm and or post to let me know how it goes and if you have any questions I can help with.

ktani
June 20th, 2008, 06:58 AM
Anyone can pm me with honey lightening questions if they do not want to post here.

I am happy to help if I can.

mommy2one05
June 20th, 2008, 09:29 AM
Maybe I will try the lightening honey treatment on my hair this weekend.
this morning I was limited on time and decided to do another smt instead.
if only I had more time :)

ktani
June 20th, 2008, 10:37 AM
mommy2one05

Time is a problem for most of us - good luck.

ktani
June 20th, 2008, 04:09 PM
Jarrah honey is known to have a very high peroxide value.

“WA scientists claim jarrah honey benefit
Manuka honey .... New Zealand honey .... peroxide levels of about 18 per cent on average .... But we’re finding peroxide levels 54 per cent higher, with an average of about 28 per cent .... a very big increase ...."
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Jarrah.pdf

see "Comparing Different Types of Honey" - date 2008
"found Jarrah honey .... contains higher amounts of glucose oxidase .... significantly more effective against Candida spp. in vitro ...."
http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/nem175

Glucose oxidase is the enzyme in honey that produces hydrogen peroxide.

Jarrah honey suppliers I found and contacted - prices and shipping costs vary as will stock amounts. There are no doubt more suppliers out there - this to start you off. As more are reported, I will add them to this list.

International shipping will be noted with an asterisk - *

*1. Their price list and they report Jarrah honey in stock. They do ship internationally.
Prices
http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html)
Contact page
http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html)

*2. Yes to Jarrah honey in stock and they ship internationally. This one seems to be fast on replies to inquiries.
Contact page
http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm)
Order page with prices
http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm)

Updated - international shipping and I removed one supplier that has no stock.

ktani
June 21st, 2008, 09:24 AM
Concern has been raised about shipping honey from Australia - whether it will be exposed to extremes in weather this time of year - heat in particular.

Most packages that are shipped by vendors are in boxes - well wrapped and are put on trucks, planes etc.

Then they sit in depots before delivery.

I doubt very much that such packages are exposed to extreme weather conditions.

ktani
June 21st, 2008, 09:48 AM
I emailed one of the Jarrah honey supppliers and asked directly how they ship their honey and if there is a risk of the honey becoming heated during shipping.

I will report back when I hear from them.

I simply asked about packaging and if the honey would be at risk from extremes in temperature.

ktani
June 21st, 2008, 10:10 AM
Here are some honeys to avoid using in honey lightening.

"Some honeys naturally contain higher levels of Vitamin C. Avoid using Anzer, buckwheat, linden flower, locust flower, mint and thyme honeys. Most honeys contain very low levels." See #9
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

Also avoid using chestnut honey - it is high in iron - high levels of iron can deplete hydrogen peroxide.

Here is the Successful Honeys List. It is constantly updated.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=119128&postcount=856itamin

The Pictures Post - links to pictures of Honey thread, past and current honey lightening results.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095

bettertress
June 21st, 2008, 02:26 PM
Ktani,

First, thanks so much for all the honey-lightening help. For those of us with henndigo disasters, your work is deeply appreciated.

I'm trying a honey mix- 1/4 cup honey, 1cup water, 1Tblsp EVOO- and I have half of it left over. I'm pretty sure it doesn't keep, but thought I would check. If I can do another round of honey tomorrow with this mix I will. If you think I should throw it out, I'll just mix up a new batch, but use half the amounts.

Also- I let the honey sit for an hour before putting it on. I'll let you know how it turns out.
nette

ktani
June 21st, 2008, 02:35 PM
Ktani,

First, thanks so much for all the honey-lightening help. For those of us with henndigo disasters, your work is deeply appreciated.

I'm trying a honey mix- 1/4 cup honey, 1cup water, 1Tblsp EVOO- and I have half of it left over. I'm pretty sure it doesn't keep, but thought I would check. If I can do another round of honey tomorrow with this mix I will. If you think I should throw it out, I'll just mix up a new batch, but use half the amounts.

Also- I let the honey sit for an hour before putting it on. I'll let you know how it turns out.
nette

bettertress

You are most welcome.

Thank you for posting your recipe.

Actually - it should be 340 grams of water - or 16 tablespoons to 1/4 cup of honey - the weight measurement threw me off for a while.

I am sure that what you did is fine - use the conversion for future reference - it may help adding that extra water.

I do not think that the peroxide degrades that quickly - a treatment kept longer than a day - refridgerated - was reported to still be potent - I just do not recommend taking it too far.

A few days max - and I cannot say for sure how potent a treatment will still be after that.

I look forward to your results.

Henndigo seems to respond well to peroxide boosters - that is down to the honey IMO.

If a honey has a good peroxide value - the boosters are not necessary - but that is hard to tell - unless like Jarrah honey, a honey is known to have a high peroxide value.

mellie got great results on both henndigo and multiple layers of henna with no peroxide boosters. She used the same honey though - Laney alfalfa honey. Clover honey did not work for her but with the clover honey she used a squeeze of lemon - the clover honey peroxide level was not high enough to deal with the Vitamin C and lighten her hair. Using a lemon squeeze with the alfalfa honey still worked. I definitely do not recommend it though. Hydrogen peroxide is depleted when it oxidizes Vitamin C.

The only ingredient that contains Viramin C that should be used for honey lightening is cardamom, with its extra high peroxide level - which compensates for its very low Vitamin C level. Cardamom has been reported to work very well.

Jan in ID
June 21st, 2008, 02:48 PM
doesn't 16 tbs = 1 cup?

I am asking because I am getting ready to mix up a batch and want to make sure I am understanding this correctly.
thanks

ktani
June 21st, 2008, 03:04 PM
doesn't 16 tbs = 1 cup?

I am asking because I am getting ready to mix up a batch and want to make sure I am understanding this correctly.
thanks

Jan in ID

I was double checking grams and cup measurements the other day when I found this link.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

There is a conversion table under the conversion calculator in the link. It is the second or last one.

It goes by weight and equivalents.

I put it all into this post.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=156655&postcount=1262

Jan in ID
June 21st, 2008, 03:21 PM
OK, I don't have any way to weigh grams, so are your saying the 340 grams of water is equal to 16 tablespoons of water?

ktani
June 21st, 2008, 03:39 PM
I added the honey conversion table to all versions of the recommendations post.

See #1
See "Convert cup of honey into grams g, ounces oz or tablespoons." http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

1 cup is normally 8 fluid oz but 1 cup of honey is 12 oz.

1 cup of water is only 237 grams
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/beverages/9238/2

This website is in agreement on honey - 1 gram shy of 340 for 1 cup.
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/sweets/5568/2

1/4 cup of honey would be 85 grams or 4 tablespoons. So you would need 340 grams or 16 tablespoons of water for every 1/4 cup of honey.

"Weigh 10 g honey .... mix with 40 g .... distilled water."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

That is the minimum - so just go from there.

That is easier, IMO.

You want 4 times the amount of water to the amount of honey - so for 1/4 cup of honey - you would need 16 tablespoons of water.

"1 cup of honey, 340 gram, 12 oz, 16 tbl.sp"
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

Jan in ID
June 21st, 2008, 03:41 PM
OK, so 1 cup of water. :)
thanks

ktani
June 21st, 2008, 03:43 PM
Jan in ID

It is actually 1 1/2 cups of water - depending on how you see it - if you go by your measuring cup.

Jan in ID
June 21st, 2008, 03:52 PM
you keep saying I need 16 tablespoons of water to 1/4 cup of honey, correct?

Well, 16 tablespoons equals 1 cup (or 8 fluid ounces), no matter if it is honey or water or anything else

I am not trying to be argumentative, but when you mix weight and liquid measurements, things can get confusing.

ktani
June 21st, 2008, 04:04 PM
Jan in ID

I do not think that you are being argumentative - it confused me too.

That is just it - they are not the same.

1 cup of honey is 340 grams or 12 oz.

This website is in agreement on honey - 1 gram shy of 340 for 1 cup.
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/sweets/5568/2

I cup of water is 237 grams or 8 oz.
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/beverages/9238/2

If as the research link recommended - you go by weight - then it is 1 1/2 cups of water to 1/4 cup of honey.

"Weigh 10 g honey .... mix with 40 g .... distilled water."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

Jan in ID
June 21st, 2008, 04:36 PM
OK, I can see where you are coming from now...

I just weighted one cup of water (8 fl oz) and it weights 8 oz also.
I never know that, but then again, I never had reason to weigh a cup of water! ;)

I though you were trying to say that one cup of honey was 12 fluid oz, not weight ounces.

Since we are dealing with liquids, I think this would be much easier to understand if the measurements used were liquid instead of weights.

Anyway, you have some really great information in this thread. Thanks for all of your hard work!

I will try to post pictures of my results soon. This is my thrid treatment using this recipe (my version! :D )

ktani
June 21st, 2008, 04:43 PM
Jan in ID

You are most welcome.

I did not realize my error until a few days ago - I asked for help and everyone I asked was confused too, lol.

It took me a while to figure it out.

But - weight is the key. And that is why I used the conversion to 16 tablespoons - instead of just weight and added the conversion table to the recommendations posts - to try to make it easier to understand. Not everyone has weight scales.

It does take getting used to.

40 grams = 40 ml - if that helps - 1ml = 1 gram.

So - the 4 to 1 dilution as it has been used up to now has been off by 1/2 cup of water if one has used 1 cup of water to 1/4 cup of honey.

The results reported though have been excellent IMO.

All this means is that with the corrected dilution - which is the real 4 parts water to 1 part honey - results should be even better.

I look forward to your results. And what is your recipe, please?

Jan in ID
June 21st, 2008, 05:28 PM
OK, here are a couple of pictures...


This is my hair on 04/20/08, when I first decided to let my hair grow out.
This is my natural virgin hair.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/JanInId/hairo042008.jpg


This one is from today, 06/21/08, after 2 honey treatments.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/JanInId/hair062108.jpg



My hair definately appers to be lighter.
And wow, I can really see a difference in growth!
This is the first comparison pic I have taken!

I have another treatment (my 3rd) on my hair as I type this.
My recipe is:

1 cup distilled water
1/4 cup raw honey
1 tbs evoo
1 tbs coconut oil
2 tbs cinnamon powder (I will probably cut this back to 1 tbs because it clumps so bad)

I bought a squirt bottle yesterday and it works well. My DH puts it in my hair for me.
I leave it on for a couple of hours, sometimes more.

I have to lather and rinse several times (I use CV shampoo bars), and my hair is still greasy looking when it drys. I just leave it and wash again like normal the next day and it is fine. My hair is soft and shiny!
I have been doing this once a week for the last 3 weeks.

I will try to post a pic tomorrow of the results of todays treatment.

ktani
June 21st, 2008, 05:40 PM
OK, here are a couple of pictures...


This is my hair on 04/20/08, when I first decided to let my hair grow out.
This is my natural virgin hair.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/JanInId/hairo042008.jpg


This one is from today, 06/21/08, after 2 honey treatments.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/JanInId/hair062108.jpg



My hair definately appers to be lighter.
And wow, I can really see a difference in growth!
This is the first comparison pic I have taken!

I have another treatment (my 3rd) on my hair as I type this.
My recipe is:

1 cup distilled water
1/4 cup raw honey
1 tbs evoo
1 tbs coconut oil
2 tbs cinnamon powder (I will probably cut this back to 1 tbs because it clumps so bad)

I bought a squirt bottle yesterday and it works well. My DH puts it in my hair for me.
I leave it on for a couple of hours, sometimes more.

I have to lather and rinse several times (I use CV shampoo bars), and my hair is still greasy looking when it drys. I just leave it and wash again like normal the next day and it is fine. My hair is soft and shiny!
I have been doing this once a week for the last 3 weeks.

I will try to post a pic tomorrow of the results of todays treatment.

Jan in Id

WOW - you definitely have some lightening there - beautiful - and your hair is gorgeous.

I will add your post to the Pictures Post.

Thank you for your recipe too.

I look forward to your new pictures.

A couple of things to consider.

lynnala found that CV shampoo bars darkened her hair - the castor oil in them.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=128710&postcount=1047

and
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=128756&postcount=1050

And if you mix the honey into the distilled water first and then add the cinnamon - the solution should be smoother.

I experimented with that - with plain water - and it works.

ktani
June 21st, 2008, 05:54 PM
Jan in ID

I added you to the Pictures Post and started a new division - you are the only one in it right now.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095

I also made note of the 4 to 1 dilution error.

Jan in ID
June 21st, 2008, 06:03 PM
Thanks ktani!

ktani
June 21st, 2008, 06:06 PM
Jan in ID

Thank you!

Alley Cat
June 21st, 2008, 06:10 PM
Jan in ID your before and after pictures are amazing well done. :cheese:

ktani
June 21st, 2008, 06:19 PM
Jan in ID

My 2 standard questions please.

1. How is the condition of your hair post honey lightening?

2. What brand and or type of honey did you use?

Jan in ID
June 21st, 2008, 06:28 PM
My hair prior to the treatment was in good condition, not great, but not bad either.
I think it feels better now, much softer.

I am currently using some local raw honey I bought at my local health food store. I was using some raw honey I purchased at Wal-Mart. I can't remember the name of it, but I will look the next time I go there.

Robinlyn
June 21st, 2008, 06:29 PM
Thank you so much for all this info! I'm doing a treatment tonight with Wildflower Honey. It is a darker honey. I will take pics.

Jan in ID
June 21st, 2008, 06:29 PM
Jan in ID your before and after pictures are amazing well done. :cheese:

Thank you!

ktani
June 21st, 2008, 06:43 PM
Jan in ID

Thank you for the fast reply.

I am glad that the condition of your hair is so good - that is consistent with other reports - no one has reported any hair damage from honey lightening - just dry hair and ends occasionally.

I want to add your type of honey to the Successful Honeys list when you can find out what it is.

I mentioned the CV shampoo bars darkening lynnala's hair so that you could be aware of the possibility.

You may get even better results without them.

I know many here love the bars and I have nothing against them - I just note things as they come up.

It took a bit of investigating to figure out what was causing the darkening for lynnala - it was cumulative.

ktani
June 21st, 2008, 06:46 PM
Thank you so much for all this info! I'm doing a treatment tonight with Wildflower Honey. It is a darker honey. I will take pics.

Robinlyn

You are most welcome.

Wildflower honey is on the Successful Honeys List - good luck!

I look forward to your results.

ktani
June 21st, 2008, 07:57 PM
Notes on castor oil and darkening hair

Castor oil darkening hair - research from this thread
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=83462&postcount=431 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=83462&postcount=431)

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=83508&postcount=435 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=83508&postcount=435)

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=84377&postcount=440 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=84377&postcount=440)

lynnala on CV shampoo bars darkening her hair
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=128710&postcount=1047

and
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=128756&postcount=1050

From Ida’s website - the amount of castor oil in shampoo bars vs soap bars
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=84607&postcount=441 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=84607&postcount=441)

flapjack on castor oil darkening hair - links from another thread
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=124839&postcount=19 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=124839&postcount=19)

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=125850&postcount=21 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=125850&postcount=21)

ktani
June 21st, 2008, 09:16 PM
Pictures Post

Here are links to some pictures of Honey thread, honey lightening results.

The 4 parts water to 1 part honey - as it has been used up to and including now has been off by the amount of water - the 4 to 1 should be measured by weight.

It can be converted to ml or tablespoons or cups. For every 1/4 cup of honey - you need 340 ml or 16 tablespoons or 1 1/2 cups water.

1 cup of honey = 339-340 grams or 12 oz. 1 cup of water = 237 grams or 8 oz. 1 gram = 1 ml.

On blonde hair

firbird - 3 sets of pictures, 2 sets linked - on previously dyed hair and virgin regrowth before using the 4 to 1 dilution and after with cinnamon and EVOO
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=75235&postcount=393

on a cassia treatment that had darkened her hair - 4 to 1 dilution - with cinnamon and EVOO, no conditioner.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=94944&postcount=489

brok3nwings - on brassy hair from and old semi and acv red/gold tones - 4 to 1 dilution and cinnamon
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=98244&postcount=503

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=99995&postcount=516

Minx - from an older Honey thread - virgin hair with the old dilution recipe
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=29214&postcount=72

morgwn - after using firebird's new honey lightening recipe with cassia, cinnamon and EVOO - the 4 to 1 dilution - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134211&postcount=1097

firebird's recipe with cassia and results - again
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=94944&postcount=489


On medium shades of hair

Jan in Id - on virgin hair - with the 4 to 1 dilution using distilled water - after 2 treatments - with cinnamon and booster oils - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=160564&postcount=1299


On dark hair

Maluhia and Viviane - from an older Honey thread with the old dilution recipes
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=18809&postcount=38

mellie - from an older Honey thread - on henndigoed hair - the 4 to 1 dilution - no peroxide boosters and no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=57442&postcount=224

mellie - latest pictures on multiple layers of Rainbow Dark Brown Henna - the 4 to 1 dilution - no lemon, no peroxide boosters and no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=109246&postcount=572

nayver - on naturally black hair with faded hi-lights - the 4 to 1 dilution - no lemon, no peroxide boosters and no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=105685&postcount=534

bizarrogirl - on henndigoed hair and then on multiple henna layers with the 4 to 1 dilution
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=109432&postcount=586

bizarrogirl - picture details
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bizarrogirl/sets/72157594199905645/detail/

wintersun99 - finally getting results - on henndigoed hair with the 4 to1 dilution
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=109189&postcount=569

GlennaGirl - on henndigoed hair - the 4 to 1 dilution with cinnamon
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=111943&postcount=653

GlennaGirl - picture details
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=111987&postcount=656

GlennaGirl - recipe details
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=111762&postcount=643

GlennaGirl - on her colour change with the 4 to 1 dilution
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=112224&postcount=676

GlennaGirl - latest signature picture - henna following - the 4 to 1 dilution - 2 more treatments - 1 with cinnamon, 1 with cardamom - 1 with no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133292&postcount=6

DolphinPrincess - finally getting results - on henndigoed hair with the 4 to 1 dilution - with cardamom, no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=120769&postcount=916

kimki - on hennaed hair - with the 4 to 1 dilution after 2 treatments, 1 with cinnamon - no conditioner
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=122653&postcount=958

The updated Pictures Post

mommy2one05
June 21st, 2008, 09:53 PM
OK, here are a couple of pictures...


This is my hair on 04/20/08, when I first decided to let my hair grow out.
This is my natural virgin hair.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/JanInId/hairo042008.jpg


This one is from today, 06/21/08, after 2 honey treatments.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/JanInId/hair062108.jpg



My hair definately appers to be lighter.
And wow, I can really see a difference in growth!
This is the first comparison pic I have taken!

I have another treatment (my 3rd) on my hair as I type this.
My recipe is:

1 cup distilled water
1/4 cup raw honey
1 tbs evoo
1 tbs coconut oil
2 tbs cinnamon powder (I will probably cut this back to 1 tbs because it clumps so bad)

I bought a squirt bottle yesterday and it works well. My DH puts it in my hair for me.
I leave it on for a couple of hours, sometimes more.

I have to lather and rinse several times (I use CV shampoo bars), and my hair is still greasy looking when it drys. I just leave it and wash again like normal the next day and it is fine. My hair is soft and shiny!
I have been doing this once a week for the last 3 weeks.

I will try to post a pic tomorrow of the results of todays treatment.


Wow! You got some really great lightening results. When you say your dh uses the mister on your hair....do you mist it and leave it down or you soak it and put it up and wrap it? What do the oils do to the mix? Is cinnamon powder and cinnamon extract (like you cook with) the same or similar?

ktani
June 21st, 2008, 10:08 PM
Ground cinnamon has a high peroxide value for a spice (not as high as that of ground cardamom) and has been reported in this thread to work very well with honey for lightening on all hair types - virgin, colour-treated, hennaed and henndigoed. It is an irritant though. That comes from its oil content - and cinnamic aldehyde not hydrogen peroxide.

Cinnamon oil is a powerful irritant - has no peroxide value that I know of and I do not recommend using it in pure form.


"Opinion concerning a review on the safety of perfumery materials
Restriction and condition
Cassia oil Cinnamon bark oil
prime allergen is Cinnamic aldehyde .... concentration of Cinnamic aldehyde in .... finished cosmetic product should not exceed 0.1%."
http://ec.europa.eu/health/ph_risk/committees/sccp/documents/out150_en.pdf

"Science Findings
Cinnamaldehyde (cinnamic aldehyde) is .... main component in cassia oil as well as cinnamon bark oil .... Cinnamon oil .... contains 70% to 90% cinnamaldehyde ...."
http://www.epa.gov/opp00001/biopesticides/ingredients/factsheets/factsheet_040506.htm

"Cinnamon contact dermatitis .... considered as irritant contact dermatitis .... allergic reaction would only occur during prolonged exposure to the irritant."
http://www.statssheet.com/articles/article74165.html

Cinnamon caution
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=300323&postcount=2382



The oils mentioned in the recipe (coconut and evoo) do have peroxide values - they boost the peroxide level of the honey lightening recipe and are known hair conditioning oils as well. Extra virgin olive oil has the highest peroxide level of most oils.

The peroxide levels of the honey lightening boosters though are not as high as the peroxide levels of most honeys, and have not been reported to lighten hair much on their own.

Ground cinnamon has been reported to lighten hair, in another thread, when used continuously, over a long period of time.



Cinnamon extact is very different to ground cinnamon - I do not recommend cinnamon extract. It is a flavouring - prepared with alcohol and water.

"Pure Cinnamon Extract Ingredients: oil of cinnamon, alcohol, and water."
http://www.cooksvanilla.com/product_44_Pure_Cinnamon_Extract.html

".... Pure Cinnamon Extract .... propylene glycol, alcohol, water and extractives of cinnamon. Like most of our extracts .... flavors ...."
http://www.silvercloudestates.com/viewproduct.aspx?id=191

Cinnamon extract ingredients
"PROPYLENE GLYCOL, ALCOHOL(40%), WATER, AND EXTRACTIVES OF CINNAMON."
http://www.mccormick.com/productdetail.cfm?id=11738 (http://www.mccormick.com/productdetail.cfm?id=11738)

".... Cinnamon extract .... flavoring extract prepared from oil of cinnamon .... contains not less than two percent by volume of oil of cinnamon."
http://www.legis.state.ia.us/IACODE/1999SUPPLEMENT/190/1.html

Alley Cat
June 21st, 2008, 11:39 PM
With the new measuring requirement you would have a lot more liquid I might try the 1/8 of a cup next time which would mean needing 170g of water and see if that is enough to cover my hair, I think it would be. I had heaps of mixture left last time which I re added half way through but it seemed to just drip away. Is 1/8 of honey enough or is it better with the 1/4 a cup and just not bother about the waste ? What do you think?:ponder:

ktani
June 22nd, 2008, 12:06 AM
Alley Cat

The minimum amount of honey to use is 10 grams.

"The overview of the method.

.... honey (preferably 10 grams) .... mix with 4 times that amount of water .... generate hydrogen-peroxide ...."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

According to this - that is 1/2 tablespoon- you would need 40 ml or 40 grams of water. Scroll down to the 1st conversion table.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

You can make the recipe whatever size you need - as long as you use the right amount of water.

And based on Jan in ID's results - distilled water is proving itself.

Alley Cat
June 22nd, 2008, 12:30 AM
Alley Cat

The minimum amount of honey to use is 10 grams.

"The overview of the method.

.... honey (preferably 10 grams) .... mix with 4 times that amount of water .... generate hydrogen-peroxide ...."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

According to this - that is 1/2 tablespoon- you would need 40 ml or 40 grams of water. Scroll down to the 1st conversion table.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

You can make the recipe whatever size you need - as long as you use the right amount of water.

And based on Jan in ID's results - distilled water is proving itself.
Ok thank you. I am using distilled water now too. :)

ktani
June 22nd, 2008, 06:49 AM
Alley Cat

The honey lightening recipes have always been sizable - many though like to use certain quantities.

The only minimum I recommend is the 10 grams or 1/2 tablespoon of honey.

Go from there with the conversion tables - I found the calculator a pain - and you should be fine.

With the cost of Jarrah honey for example and distilled water - excellent that you are using it by the way - wasting product is not good IMO.

You determine for yourself how much you need to use and make the recipe accordingly.

Jan in ID
June 22nd, 2008, 09:22 AM
Wow! You got some really great lightening results. When you say your dh uses the mister on your hair....do you mist it and leave it down or you soak it and put it up and wrap it? What do the oils do to the mix? Is cinnamon powder and cinnamon extract (like you cook with) the same or similar?


Thanks!
I don't use a mister, I just use a squirt bottle (it looks like a ketchup/mustard bottle) I picked up at Wal-Mart in the kitchen section.
My DH just helps me out by applying the mixture to my hair and mixing it around while I have my head bent over the bathtub. It saves a lot of mess and makes sure I get all of my hair saturated. (gotta love the guy!).

I then pile my hair on top of my head and put on a plastic cap and then cover that with a towel to help catch the drips.
I leave it on for 2 hours and then wash, rinse, wash, rinse and so on.

I think ktani has answered your other questions. This thread is where I got the recipe I use.

Jan in ID
June 22nd, 2008, 09:34 AM
With the new measuring requirement you would have a lot more liquid I might try the 1/8 of a cup next time which would mean needing 170g of water and see if that is enough to cover my hair, I think it would be. I had heaps of mixture left last time which I re added half way through but it seemed to just drip away. Is 1/8 of honey enough or is it better with the 1/4 a cup and just not bother about the waste ? What do you think?:ponder:


My batch makes too much also.
I thought I had read that I needed to use a minimum of 1/4 of honey, but I must have been mistaken.
I will cut my recipe in half next week.
I have some honey I am wanting to try, but it's twice the price of my regular honey.
It's called Really Raw Honey and it tastes great!
http://www.reallyrawhoney.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=RRH

It tastes so good that I didn't want to waste it on my hair! Using 1/4 cup at a time, it would go pretty fast!
I may try this next week just to see if it makes any difference.

Jan in ID
June 22nd, 2008, 09:45 AM
This is a picture of the type of bottle I use, but mine is clear.
Once I have perfected my recipe, I am going to mark the bottle with the measurments I use. That way I can just pour my ingredients directly into the bottle instead of measuring each item everytime.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/JanInId/bottle.jpg

ktani
June 22nd, 2008, 10:24 AM
Jan in ID

Thank you for the added details and pictures of the type of bottles, the same except for the colour, to your application bottle.

You obviously did every thing right in your recipe and method - including covering your hair with plastic - which I am not sure is needed if the recipe sat for 1 hour in advance - to develop the honey's full proxide value - but it is handy for the drips.

The only things I recommend are - as I said - mixing the cinnamon into the distilled water after you have added the honey - to make a smoother solution.

And increasing the amount of water to honey by weight - you can convert that to ml - for the correct 4 parts water to 1 part honey dilution.

I think that will yield even better results.



You can also patch test and try ground cardamom - not the seed. Ground cardamom has been reported here to work beautifully, to help lighten hair with honey, and it has also been reported to wash out of the hair much easier than cinnamon.

I recommend McCormick ground cardamom - DolphinPrincess used it - and had no irritation - cinnamon did not work for her and did cause irritation. GlennaGirl used a different ground cardamom and did have irritation, while ground cinnamon was no problem for her. Patch testing is very much recommended though.
http://www.mccormick.com/recipelist.cfm?SearchMethod=explicit&SearchText=cardamom&SearchGroup=1&SearchTextDisplay=&searchType=site&pageno=2&display=site

DolphinPrincess results - you do not have to use chamomile tea - if you do - prepare it with distilled water and cool it to room temperature before adding the honey and cardamom.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=120769&postcount=916



Some of the recipes used here have used 1/4 cup of honey. I think that is where the confusion came from with that amount.

I had mistakenly said that 10 grams of honey = 1/8th cup - as the recommended minimum amount of honey to be used.

10 grams of honey is still the recommended minimum but it is actually equal to 1/2 tablespoon.

"Honey volume vs. weight conversions
tablespoon - 0.06 - 21g"
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

IMO, 2 hours is not necessary for a treatment with the 4 to 1 dilution but it is not a problem.

ktani
June 22nd, 2008, 10:47 AM
Jan in ID

As to the honey - by all means experiment - but the honey that you have been using is excellent IMO.

I think that the really expensive honeys are best kept for either eating or like UMF manuka honey - for medicinal use.

Both raw and pasteurized honeys have been reported in all Honey threads to work equally well - the cheap versions of both too.

The exception to expense and it will be the shipping costs - not the honey - is Jarrah honey.

With its known high peroxide value - I highly recommend trying it as a honey option.

ktani
June 22nd, 2008, 11:04 AM
Jarrah honey information and suppliers.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=157257&postcount=1266

It is #10 here
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

Jan in ID
June 22nd, 2008, 12:16 PM
Thanks for the info on castor oil.
I think I will stick with my CV bars though. They do great thing for my hair.

ktani
June 22nd, 2008, 12:22 PM
Jan in ID

Your hair is beautiful and you got great honey lightening results IMO.

I only wanted you to be aware that CV bars have been reported to darken hair - probably because of the castor oil - and castor oil has been reported to darken hair too.

ktani
June 22nd, 2008, 01:36 PM
This is why I recommend that the distilled water and herbal tea be used at room temperature only before adding the honey and peroxide boosters.

".... honey (preferably 10 grams) mix with 4 times that amount of water at 20°C (68°F), glucose-oxidase .... generate hydrogen-peroxide ...."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

Now - IMO - you do not have to check the room temperature - but - if you keep a treatment in the fridge - let it warm up to room temperature - before using it unless you have already let it sit for 1 hour at room temperature.

This is the hour it needs to produce the maximum honey peroxide value.
"Let stand .... one hour at room temperature (20°C)(70°F)"
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

I highly recommend reading this link - even though it has lots of typos and badly phrased English - just like my posts before I edit, lol.

squiggyflop
June 22nd, 2008, 03:02 PM
ok so ive got a honey lightening treatment on my head.. its so drippy its seeping out of the saran wrap and dripping onto me every 5 seconds.. i feel all gross and sticky.. i hope i can see some results..

so how many treatments until henna users see results?

ktani
June 22nd, 2008, 04:15 PM
squiggyflop

Thank you for posting.

What is your recipe please?

You can get results in 1 treatment - it very much depends on you (method), your recipe and the honey itself in some cases.

I cannot predict results.

I wish you luck and look forward to reading the details.

Alley Cat
June 22nd, 2008, 07:30 PM
Alley Cat

The honey lightening recipes have always been sizable - many though like to use certain quantities.

The only minimum I recommend is the 10 grams or 1/2 tablespoon of honey.

Go from there with the conversion tables - I found the calculator a pain - and you should be fine.

With the cost of Jarrah honey for example and distilled water - excellent that you are using it by the way - wasting product is not good IMO.

You determine for yourself how much you need to use and make the recipe accordingly.

Thanks for that. I will sort it out next time I do a treatment.:)

Alley Cat
June 22nd, 2008, 07:34 PM
My batch makes too much also.
I thought I had read that I needed to use a minimum of 1/4 of honey, but I must have been mistaken.
I will cut my recipe in half next week.
I have some honey I am wanting to try, but it's twice the price of my regular honey.
It's called Really Raw Honey and it tastes great!
http://www.reallyrawhoney.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=RRH

It tastes so good that I didn't want to waste it on my hair! Using 1/4 cup at a time, it would go pretty fast!
I may try this next week just to see if it makes any difference.

Yes it makes a lot and your hair is a lot shorter than mine so you would have had a lot left. I also use a bottle like you do it's easier. :)

ktani
June 22nd, 2008, 07:39 PM
Alley Cat

You are most welcome.

ktani
June 22nd, 2008, 08:43 PM
Jarrah honey is known to have a very high peroxide value.

“WA scientists claim jarrah honey benefit
Manuka honey .... New Zealand honey .... peroxide levels of about 18 per cent on average .... But we’re finding peroxide levels 54 per cent higher, with an average of about 28 per cent .... a very big increase ...."
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Jarrah.pdf

see "Comparing Different Types of Honey" - date 2008
"found Jarrah honey .... contains higher amounts of glucose oxidase .... significantly more effective against Candida spp. in vitro ...."
http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/nem175

Glucose oxidase is the enzyme in honey that produces hydrogen peroxide.

Jarrah honey suppliers I found and contacted - prices and shipping costs vary as will stock amounts. There are no doubt more suppliers out there - this to start you off. As more are reported, I will add them to this list.

International shipping will be noted with an asterisk - *

*1. Their price list and they report Jarrah honey in stock. They do ship internationally.
Prices
http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html)
Contact page
http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html)

*2. Yes to Jarrah honey in stock and they ship internationally. This one seems to be fast on replies to inquiries.
Contact page
http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm)
Order page with prices
http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm)

I contacted supplier #2 a few days ago to ask about shipping and extremes of temperature.

I got 2 replies tonight.

".... no the honey will not heat up to a risk point while being shipped and how much and what you order will determine the packaging,...."

" no I shouldn't think the honey would come into any extreme heat while in transit, most airports and planes are all air-conditioned these days ...."

Excellent timing and customer service IMO. Bravo!

squiggyflop
June 22nd, 2008, 08:52 PM
squiggyflop

Thank you for posting.

What is your recipe please?

You can get results in 1 treatment - it very much depends on you (method), your recipe and the honey itself in some cases.

I cannot predict results.

I wish you luck and look forward to reading the details.
ok so i used the old conditioner and honey recipe.. i didnt realize there were better ones.. im going to try the 4 to 1 water and honey one some time this week.. but im going to need a shower cap.. so im going to have to look around for some change..
i dont have money for distilled water.. my dad would be mad if i told him i wanted money to buy water..
once i see results im going to post pictures (hopefully the card reader will be working again soon)

ktani
June 22nd, 2008, 09:04 PM
squiggyflop

No worries - it is just that the 4 to 1 dilution has been reported to work both faster and much better than the old recipes.

Please read #1 of the link I sent you - and hang onto it.

I update all recommendation posts - so they are all current.

There has been a correction to the 4 to 1 dilution - the water is done by weight.

Please read #15 too.

Tap water is ok - distilled water is better.

I would not continue to use conditioner - it can be problematic and is no longer recommended.

And please let me know how it goes.

ktani
June 23rd, 2008, 06:48 AM
To simplify the correct 4 parts water to 1 part honey dilution - you can just use ml

1 ml = 1 gram

So for the recommended minimum amount of honey, 10 grams or ml, you would need 40 ml of water.

50 ml of honey would need 200 ml of water etc.

or tablespoons

1/8th cup of honey = 2 tablespoons, so you would need 8 tablespoons of water.

1/4 cup of honey = 4 tablespoons - you would need 16 tablespoons of water.

Scroll down past the calculator in this link to the conversion tables - IMO - they are much easier to work with.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

soleluna
June 23rd, 2008, 09:32 AM
Ok, I'm needing some help: this is a monster thread and I can't seem to find what I'm looking for. I have brown hair with reddish highlights, which become more obvious in the sun and when I henna. I am looking for a way to make my hair lighter, in the sense of 'more red'. Would honey or cinnamon or rooibos or whatever work for this? I'm thinking about treatments, leave ins, or a spray to use when in the sun. Something natural, though, just to accentuate my natural color. thanks

ktani
June 23rd, 2008, 09:39 AM
Ok, I'm needing some help: this is a monster thread and I can't seem to find what I'm looking for. I have brown hair with reddish highlights, which become more obvious in the sun and when I henna. I am looking for a way to make my hair lighter, in the sense of 'more red'. Would honey or cinnamon or rooibos or whatever work for this? I'm thinking about treatments, leave ins, or a spray to use when in the sun. Something natural, though, just to accentuate my natural color. thanks

soleluna

As most darker hair lightens, red is one of the stages it goes through naturally.

With henna - the hair is fiery orange/red, until multiple layers can turn it darker, to more of a burgundy shade.

When you lighten henna it can return to the more red shade.

Have a look at the recommendations here on honey lightening.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

Then look at the pictures of honey lightening on hennaed hair here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095

Sunlight is not recommended with honey lightening - heat (except body heat) can negatively affect hydrogen peroxide.

This is from the recommendations link.

8."No external heat should be used with honey lightening - no blow dryers, sunlight. None of the recipe ingredients except herbal tea should be heated at any time. Heat (except body heat) can destroy hydrogen peroxide by decomposing it to water and oxygen. It depends on the degree of heat and the amount of time that it is applied. Pasteurization does not destroy the enzyme in honey that produces peroxide.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=119678&postcount=883"

soleluna
June 23rd, 2008, 10:15 AM
Thanks, I'll have a look at the links now! what about cinnamon?

ktani
June 23rd, 2008, 10:19 AM
soleluna

When you read the links and look at the pictures you will see that ground cinnamon is 1 of 2 recommended spice boosters that can be used in the recipes.

It adds extra peroxide to a honey lightening recipe, but contrary to what is on the net, it has not been reported to add colour of its own to the hair.

soleluna
June 23rd, 2008, 10:35 AM
thanks. Am trying now. I'm boiling distilled water with rooibos and cinnamon then I'll let it cool and add the honey(1 cup water, 1/5 cup of honey), slather on and leave for 1 hour under some wrap or cap. Is that ok?

ktani
June 23rd, 2008, 10:40 AM
thanks. Am trying now. I'm boiling distilled water with rooibos and cinnamon then I'll let it cool and add the honey(1 cup water, 1/5 cup of honey), slather on and leave for 1 hour under some wrap or cap. Is that ok?

soleluna

You should not add heat to any peroxide containig ingredients for honey lightening.

Rooibos tea has been reported to add a light brownish colour to hair - not red.

By boiling the cinnamon - you are destroying the peroxide in it.

Any tea used for honey lightening should be cooled to room temperature first before adding any other ingredients.

soleluna
June 23rd, 2008, 10:42 AM
soleluna

You should not add heat to any peroxide containig ingredients for honey lightening.

Rooibos tea has been reported to add a light brownish colour to hair - not red.

By boiling the cinnamon - you are destroying the peroxide in it.

Ant tea used for honey lightening should be cooled to room temperature first before adding any other ingredients.

oh my!! I got it wrong then!! thanks!! I'll use the rooibos etc for a rinse, and just put honey and water then. off to change the thing!! thanks!!!

ktani
June 23rd, 2008, 10:45 AM
soleluna

Use this post to guide you through the correct amount of water to use.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=162313&postcount=1336

squiggyflop
June 23rd, 2008, 03:32 PM
i found a dollar and bought a 6 pack of shower caps.. i mixed honey and water using the 4 parts water one part honey.. and i added some cinnamon..

i was sitting in the living room with my dog and he comes up behind me and starts licking my shoulder (my hair is dripping quite a bit) i couldnt figure out why he was being so annoying until i put my hands in my mouth.. wow this stuff tastes good.. i think i may even want to bake some cookies to taste like this..

now i cant stop tasting it.. every time i drip i catch it on my fingers and suck it off.. mmmm honey and cinnamon flavored water..

i hope i get some results this time and i hope i can take a picture while its still light out to show all of you.. and i really hope i can get the pics onto the computor.. my card reader is sort of tempermental..

mmm annother drip of tasty honey treatment..

ill report back later..

ktani
June 23rd, 2008, 03:46 PM
i found a dollar and bought a 6 pack of shower caps.. i mixed honey and water using the 4 parts water one part honey.. and i added some cinnamon..

i was sitting in the living room with my dog and he comes up behind me and starts licking my shoulder (my hair is dripping quite a bit) i couldnt figure out why he was being so annoying until i put my hands in my mouth.. wow this stuff tastes good.. i think i may even want to bake some cookies to taste like this..

now i cant stop tasting it.. every time i drip i catch it on my fingers and suck it off.. mmmm honey and cinnamon flavored water..

i hope i get some results this time and i hope i can take a picture while its still light out to show all of you.. and i really hope i can get the pics onto the computor.. my card reader is sort of tempermental..

mmm annother drip of tasty honey treatment..

ill report back later..

squiggyflop

LOL Yes that is a decided advantage with new honey lightening recipes - they are edible.

Good luck!

I look forward to reading your results.

ktani
June 23rd, 2008, 05:11 PM
A special thank you to soleluna.

She and I pmed today while she had the honey lightening treatment on her hair.

When I have the time, as I did today, I am happy to to help out via pm if it is preferred.

But the thank you is for information provided to me.

Now I know why some of you boiled ground cinnamon - which is not recommended for honey lightening.

That is a method - for making tea when using henna!

I have, and am still learning as much from all of you who post here - as you do from my research.

Alley Cat
June 23rd, 2008, 06:07 PM
To simplify the correct 4 parts water to 1 part honey dilution - you can just use ml

1 ml = 1 gram

So for the recommended the minimum amount of honey, 10 grams or ml, you would need 40 ml of water.

50 ml of honey would need 200 ml of water etc.

or tablespoons

1/8th cup of honey = 2 tablespoons, so you would need 8 tablespoons of water.

1/4 cup of honey = 4 tablespoons - you would need 16 tablespoons of water.

Scroll down past the calculator in this link to the conversion tables - IMO - they are much easier to work with.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

Hmm is our measuring system different than yours as 1/8 of a cup is 30ml and 1 tablespoon is 20ml here so 1/8 of a cup is actually 1 and 1/2 tablespoons here? :shrug:
I was looking at some of my measuring containers just now.:confused:
1/4 of a cup is 60ml which is only 3 tablespoons
1 cup is 250ml . Which of course 1/4 of a cup times 4 doesn't add up to 250 but that's what my measuring containers are like. :eek:
These are the ones I have been using to measure with . :)

ktani
June 23rd, 2008, 06:15 PM
Hmm is our measuring system different than yours as 1/8 of a cup is 30ml and 1 tablespoon is 20ml here so 1/8 of a cup is actually 1 and 1/2 tablespoons here? :shrug:
I was looking at some of my measuring containers just now.:confused:
1/4 of a cup is 60ml which is only 3 tablespoons
1 cup is 250ml . Which of course 1/4 of a cup times 4 doesn't add up to 250 but that's what my measuring containers are like. :eek:
These are the ones I have been using to measure with . :)

Alley Cat

They are is U.S. Stats.

Look at this page here.
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/sweets/5568/2

USDA
http://www.nutritiondata.com/help/about

You can still use the conversions.

Your measuring cups have ml - 1 gram = 1 ml.

So 30 ml of honey would need 120 ml of water.

Alley Cat
June 23rd, 2008, 06:23 PM
Alley Cat

They are is U.S. Stats.

Look at this page here.
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/sweets/5568/2

USDA
http://www.nutritiondata.com/help/about

You can still use the conversions.
Ok thank you . :)

So if I want to do this in grams which is easier for me to measure the most accurate the honey for 1/8 of a cup is 42.5 grams and what was the water again sorry?:o
Or is it just 42.5 x 4 = 170g? .
I want to make sure I do this right. :)

ktani
June 23rd, 2008, 06:28 PM
Ok thank you . :)

So if I want to do this in grams which is easier for me to measure the most accurate the honey for 1/8 of a cup is 42.5 grams and what was the water again sorry?:o
Or is it just 42.5 x 4 = 170g? .
I want to make sure I do this right. :)

Alley Cat

You can do it either way.

You can size your own recipe - just use 10 grams or ml of honey minimum.

Ok - look at it this way.

1 gram = 1 ml.

10 grams or ml of honey need 40 grams or ml of water for the 4 to 1 correctly.

20 grams or ml of honey need 80 grams or ml of water.

30 grams or ml of honey need 120 grams or ml of water.

Alley Cat
June 23rd, 2008, 06:32 PM
Alley Cat

You can do it either way.

You can size your own recipe - just use 10 grams or ml of honey minimum.

Ok - look at it this way.

1 gram = 1 ml.

10 grams or ml of honey need 40 grams or ml of water for the 4 to 1 correctly.

20 grams or ml of honey need 80 grams or ml of water.

30 grams or ml of honey need 120 grams or ml of water.
Ok got it thanks. :)
I just need to work out how much to use that is enough with out having a huge wastage. Will do. I am thinking of a treatment later today. :)

ktani
June 23rd, 2008, 06:38 PM
Alley Cat

This link is Dutch.

"Weigh 10 g honey .... mix with 40 g (40 ml) distilled water."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html

Alley Cat
June 23rd, 2008, 06:43 PM
Jarrah honey is known to have a very high peroxide value.

“WA scientists claim jarrah honey benefit
Manuka honey .... New Zealand honey .... peroxide levels of about 18 per cent on average .... But we’re finding peroxide levels 54 per cent higher, with an average of about 28 per cent .... a very big increase ...."
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Jarrah.pdf

see "Comparing Different Types of Honey" - date 2008
"found Jarrah honey .... contains higher amounts of glucose oxidase .... significantly more effective against Candida spp. in vitro ...."
http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/nem175

Glucose oxidase is the enzyme in honey that produces hydrogen peroxide.

Jarrah honey suppliers I found and contacted - prices and shipping costs vary as will stock amounts. There are no doubt more suppliers out there - this to start you off. As more are reported, I will add them to this list.

International shipping will be noted with an asterisk - *

*1. Their price list and they report Jarrah honey in stock. They do ship internationally.
Prices
http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html)
Contact page
http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html)

*2. Yes to Jarrah honey in stock and they ship internationally. This one seems to be fast on replies to inquiries.
Contact page
http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm)
Order page with prices
http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm)




Just a note to let anyone interested that I have ordered from the second supplier beehappy . I will advice when I get my product and what I think of the product. It did take a little while to get my order finalized but it's done now so I will see how long the goods take to arrive. I expect a good week coming all the way from WA to Tasmania. :) I have had products take longer to come domestic than to come from USA sometimes, crazy but true. :rolleyes:
My mother once sent 2 presents on the same day to my 2 children one came in 4 days the other in 10 . :rolleyes:

Alley Cat
June 23rd, 2008, 06:45 PM
Alley Cat

This link is Dutch.

"Weigh 10 g honey .... mix with 40 g (40 ml) distilled water"
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html
Thanks I missed this post. :)

ktani
June 23rd, 2008, 06:50 PM
Just a note to let anyone interested that I have ordered from the second supplier beehappy . I will advice when I get my product and what I think of the product. It did take a little while to get my order finalized but it's done now so I will see how long the goods take to arrive. I expect a good week coming all the way from WA to Tasmania. :) I have had products take longer to come domestic than to come from USA sometimes, crazy but true. :rolleyes:
My mother once sent 2 presents on the same day to my 2 children one came in 4 days the other in 10 . :rolleyes:

Alley Cat

It is like that here in Canada too.

I have received mail from the U.S. in 3 days.

I have received packages from Britain in 7 working days.

I sent my mom - who does not live far from me a card - that took 10 days for her to receive it.

I look forward to reading about the shipping and the honey!

It is good that people report on things like customer service and response times with vendors - with respect though.

That can be a problem otherwise - I am not referring to you - it is and old issue on LHC - but one to be aware of - in any case.

Alley Cat
June 23rd, 2008, 07:10 PM
Alley Cat

It is like that here in Canada too.

I have received mail from the U.S. in 3 days.

I have received packages from Britain in 7 working days.

I sent my mom - who does not live far from me a card - that took 10 days for her to receive it.

I look forward to reading about the shipping and the honey!

It is good that people report on things like customer service and response times with vendors - with respect though.

That can be a problem otherwise - I am not referring to you - it is and old issue on LHC - but one to be aware of - in any case.

Yes what you said about customer service and respect etc is important. :)

About the postage from USA and domestic, I have never been able to understand it , some things can come quicker but if you expect they will take longer then you aren't disappointed . :shrug:

ktani
June 23rd, 2008, 07:16 PM
Alley Cat

The packages from Britain - my shampoo.

I always go by the cheapest shipping - they say up to 30 days.

I have never received a package in over 7 working days - and I have ordered from 2 different vendors - all together over 1/2 a dozen times.

ktani
June 23rd, 2008, 07:28 PM
Jarrah honey is known to have a very high peroxide value.

“WA scientists claim jarrah honey benefit
Manuka honey .... New Zealand honey .... peroxide levels of about 18 per cent on average .... But we’re finding peroxide levels 54 per cent higher, with an average of about 28 per cent .... a very big increase ...."
http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Jarrah.pdf

see "Comparing Different Types of Honey" - date 2008
"found Jarrah honey .... contains higher amounts of glucose oxidase .... significantly more effective against Candida spp. in vitro ...."
http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/nem175

Glucose oxidase is the enzyme in honey that produces hydrogen peroxide.

Jarrah honey suppliers I found and contacted - prices and shipping costs vary as will stock amounts. There are no doubt more suppliers out there - this to start you off. As more are reported, I will add them to this list.

International shipping will be noted with an asterisk - *

*1. Their price list and they report Jarrah honey in stock. They do ship internationally.
Prices
http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html)
Contact page
http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html (http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html)

*2. Yes to Jarrah honey in stock and they ship internationally. This one seems to be fast on replies to inquiries.
Contact page
http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm)
Order page with prices
http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm (http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm)

Both of these vendors responded to inquiries about stock and international shipping.

I removed 1 vendor from the list when they replied that they had no stock.

I emailed another vendor who has not replied yet.

This list only comprises vendors who have stock at the time of the inquiry.

The vendors who do not respond to inquiries will not be named.

There are any number of legitimate reasons why that may happen.

Alley Cat
June 23rd, 2008, 07:31 PM
Alley Cat

The packages from Britain - my shampoo.

I always go by the cheapest shipping - they say up to 30 days.

I have never received a package in over 7 working days - and I have ordered from 2 different vendors - all together over 1/2 a dozen times.
I have had a package from USA that took over 3 weeks I believe. :shrug:
But I got it eventually. :) Waiting is hard though. :rolleyes:

ktani
June 23rd, 2008, 07:40 PM
Alley Cat

It can be.

But business is very competitive and shipping methods have very much improved IMO.

Alley Cat
June 24th, 2008, 12:02 AM
Alley Cat

It can be.

But business is very competitive and shipping methods have very much improved IMO.

Yes . :)

I have put another mixture in I used 40g of honey to 160g of distilled water that was quite sufficient to cover my waist length hair, and I didn't have any wastage. I will stick to that amount from now on.
It's sitting on my head now. :D

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 06:02 AM
Alley Cat

Perfect - good luck!

Alley Cat
June 24th, 2008, 06:42 AM
Alley Cat

Perfect - good luck!
Thank you . It's washed off now and dried but as it's night time here and bed time I will know better how it looks in the morning. I am always glad to have washed out the mixture though. :)

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 06:45 AM
Alley Cat

Depending on the honey, you may just need a weak vinegar rinse or rinsing instead of washing it out.

Different honeys have different residue levels.

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 06:55 AM
Another thing to consider - by using distilled water - there will be no mineral residue from the water itself.

A weak vinegar rinse that has been reported to work well with honey lightening is 1 tsp white vinegar to 24 oz of water (use distilled water).

Apply after rinsing out the treatment and leave the vinegar rinse on the hair 30-60 seconds before rinsing it out.

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 07:22 AM
***** I have been posting the recommendations links frequently throughout the thread in order for those new to the thread to be up to date.*****

They are all the same and are all updated at one time.

***** This is the one that is on page 1 of this thread.*****
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

If you save one of these links - you will always be current with what is happening in the Honey thread.

There is a current pictures link included in the link.

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 07:27 AM
I am now going to post the recommendations link on every page, starting today.

I have been updating all versions of the links at once - there are 6 of them.

From today, I will only be updating one - but it will be on every page of this thread.

squiggyflop
June 24th, 2008, 08:58 AM
ok sorry about the late response.. my computor monitor died last night.. luckily we had an extra one brand new just sitting still in its box.. however dad didnt install it until morning.. i just woke up..

so im an idiot and i forgot to take pictures before the honey treatmentstreatments.. but just beleive me when i say its a bit lighter.. especially by the roots.. however i still have some henna thats too dark so maybe ill do annother treatment.. maybe not today because im having a good hair day and i dont want to ruin it..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/th_lengthafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/lengthafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/th_rootsafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/rootsafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/th_topafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/topafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg)
in the top pic you can see that there is still some dark hair that i need to deal with.. but that pic shows well how much lighter the roots got.. the darker hair is a bit lighter.. i wish it was sunny out this morning so you all could really see..

second and third pictures are of my lightened roots.. *sigh* i havent done henna since april and i only have like an inch of roots.. my hair usually grows wicked fast in the summer i dont understand it..

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 09:21 AM
ok sorry about the late response.. my computor monitor died last night.. luckily we had an extra one brand new just sitting still in its box.. however dad didnt install it until morning.. i just woke up..

so im an idiot and i forgot to take pictures before the honey treatmentstreatments.. but just beleive me when i say its a bit lighter.. especially by the roots.. however i still have some henna thats too dark so maybe ill do annother treatment.. maybe not today because im having a good hair day and i dont want to ruin it..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/th_lengthafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/lengthafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/th_rootsafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/rootsafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/th_topafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/topafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg)
in the top pic you can see that there is still some dark hair that i need to deal with.. but that pic shows well how much lighter the roots got.. the darker hair is a bit lighter.. i wish it was sunny out this morning so you all could really see..

second and third pictures are of my lightened roots.. *sigh* i havent done henna since april and i only have like an inch of roots.. my hair usually grows wicked fast in the summer i dont understand it..

squiggyflop

Thank you for posting the pictures and results.

I do not blame you for not wanting to ruin a good hair day - your hair looks beautiful.

You can add more cinnamon next time or patch test and try ground cardamom.

You can use a tint or blush brush to get exact placement of the treatment - on areas you want to concentrate on.

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 09:25 AM
***** This is the current honey lightening recommendations post. *****

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096)

It is always updated - which means that if you save this link - you will always be up to date with what is happening in this thread.

There is a link to pictures of honey lightening included - See #15.

squiggyflop
June 24th, 2008, 09:32 AM
squiggyflop

Thank you for posting the pictures and results.

I do not blame you for not wanting to ruin a good hair day - your hair looks beautiful.

You can add more cinnamon next time or patch test and try ground cardamom.

You can use a tint or blush brush to get exact placement of the treatment - on areas you want to concentrate on.

hmm tint brush.. i wonder if i still have one of those.. i bet i could use one of the brushes that we use to put sauces on food.. seeing as how honey treatments are non toxic.. i really dont want to lighten the roots anymore..

i have absolutely no idea what cardamom is.. but ill be sure to use more cinnamon..

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 09:48 AM
squiggyflop

Yes, the new, recommended honey lightening recipes, are now all edible and nontoxic - the old recipes were always nontoxic but not always edible.

A basting or pastry brush is an excellent idea.

Here are some notes on cardamom. (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=85940&postcount=446)

However - to simplify things - I recommend McCormick ground cardamom.

McCormick ground cardamom
http://www.mccormickgourmet.com/Products/Spices/Cardamom-Ground.aspx

It is less expensive than others. Patch testing it is recommended.

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 10:55 AM
Ground cinnamon has low antioxidant levels. So does ground cardamom.

Scroll up to See "Cinnamon - an antioxidant" But ground cardamom has a higher peroxide level.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=KZa8aPxR_-wC&pg=PA322&lpg=PA322&dq=cinnamon+pov&source=web&ots=pjIeAfr5-Z&sig=OMZG-eBpqhAP5xevko2Ot2tkeW4&hl=en#PPA321,M1

soleluna
June 24th, 2008, 11:26 AM
So.. here are my before and after pictures. I'll let you comment before saying anything, so you are unbiased ;)

before: http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/4/6/23/f_0182m_f070178.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/6/23/f_0182m_f070178.jpg&srv=img34)

http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/4/6/23/f_0173m_4ac924b.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/6/23/f_0173m_4ac924b.jpg&srv=img29)

after:
http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/4/6/24/f_058m_babb71a.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/6/24/f_058m_babb71a.jpg&srv=img27)

http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/4/6/24/f_057m_42914f7.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/6/24/f_057m_42914f7.jpg&srv=img34)

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 11:37 AM
soleluna

WOW - your hair is definitely lighter and absolutely gorgeous!

It looks amazing - how is the condition of your hair?

Exact recipe? - I know most of it - but the amounts please

In this light - I cannot see the red clearly - how it is in sunlight?

soleluna
June 24th, 2008, 11:53 AM
Thank you!

My hair is in pretty good shape, soft, not many splits etc ;)


quite happy with it at the moment.

What to do:

WET HAIR

MIX 2 teaspoons honey (black locust honey) with 200 ml distilled water

STIR well

ADD 1 teaspoon ground cinnamon

APPLY to hair

PUT ON showercap

WAIT 1 hour

RINSE and shampoo

:D

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 12:15 PM
:cheese:
Thank you!

My hair is in pretty good shape, soft, not many splits etc ;)


quite happy with it at the moment.

What to do:

WET HAIR

MIX 2 teaspoons honey (black locust honey) with 200 ml distilled water

STIR well

ADD 1 teaspoon ground cinnamon

APPLY to hair

PUT ON showercap

WAIT 1 hour

RINSE and shampoo

:D

soleluna

Great news on the condition of your hair but I am not surprised - it looks fantastic.

According to this - 2 tsp = 14.2 grams or ml because 1 g = 1 ml, so you needed 56.8 ml of distilled water not 200 ml.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

Locust flower honey is supposed to be high in Vitamin C - black locust honey obviously must be different - it certainly worked.

Most honeys have a higher peroxide level than ground cinnamon and you used twice as much honey than ground cinnamon - so the honey IMO, worked beautifully with the ground cinnamon.

I added your results to the Pictures Post.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095

Zenity
June 24th, 2008, 01:01 PM
Hello.

I am on my third treatment on honey lightening.

I have to say that the first two did work slightly from middles to ends. But it was more noticeable there 'cause I still have some old highlights showing... It did make them look lighter under sun light.

Now I have made a variation of the recipe.

I have just boiled distilled water, add a stick of cinnamon and some chamomile tea bags.
Wait until the water was cold enough to add the honey and a bit of EVOO.
It's sitting in my head right now.
My hair is literally soaked and I was a little bit afraid of the irritation reported by the users of cinnamon, but so far so good. Maybe I killed the properties of cinnamon by boiling it?

I will report tomorrow and try to post some pics if there is something noticeable.

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 01:04 PM
So far - there are 2 reports with pictures using distilled water - Jan in ID and soleluna.

As far as I am concerned, distilled water wins out over plain water in terms of results, no question.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 01:18 PM
***** This is the current honey lightening recommendations post. *****

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096)

It is always updated - which means that if you save this link - you will always be up to date with what is happening in this thread.

There is a link to pictures of honey lightening included - See #15.

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 01:27 PM
Hello.

I am on my third treatment on honey lightening.

I have to say that the first two did work slightly from middles to ends. But it was more noticeable there 'cause I still have some old highlights showing... It did make them look lighter under sun light.

Now I have made a variation of the recipe.

I have just boiled distilled water, add a stick of cinnamon and some chamomile tea bags.
Wait until the water was cold enough to add the honey and a bit of EVOO.
It's sitting in my head right now.
My hair is literally soaked and I was a little bit afraid of the irritation reported by the users of cinnamon, but so far so good. Maybe I killed the properties of cinnamon by boiling it?

I will report tomorrow and try to post some pics if there is something noticeable.

Zenity

Thank you for posting your recipe

Yes, IMO, you did destroy the peroxide value of the cinnamon by boiling it. Heat (except body heat) can destroy hydrogen peroxide.

You may still get some lightening from the honey and the EVOO - you let the tea cool first before adding the honey and oil. And you used distilled water - all good.

Please do not boil cinnamon for use with honey lightening.

It is a waste of time and good cinnamon to do so.

None of the peroxide containing ingredients - the honey, spices or oils - should be heated at any time.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=119678&postcount=883

Ground cinnamon is preferable IMO than a cinnamon stick - you need to get the cinnamon into solution.

As for irritation - please patch test. Then use 1 tablespoon to start if you are not sensitive.

What were the recipe proportions please?

I look forward to your results.

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 02:29 PM
I now understand now where it comes from - cinnamon and heat is a henna thing - but when it comes to honey lightening ....

Heat and ground cinnamon is not a good idea and is not recommended.

soleluna
June 24th, 2008, 03:45 PM
I'm sorry, I used 50 grams of honey. 2 tablespoons.

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 03:50 PM
soleluna

I thought so - how much cinnamon - 1 tsp or 1 tablespoon?

soleluna
June 24th, 2008, 04:03 PM
sorry, teaspoon, smaller one than for the honey

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 04:07 PM
soleluna

Perfect - thank you.

You are the first to report in with the correct 4 to 1 dilution, distilled water and pictures.

Congratulations - you started off with boiled cinnamon - had to start over and look at your hair now - amazing!

You used less cinnamon than most have - but your results - fantastic IMO.

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 04:17 PM
So.. here are my before and after pictures. I'll let you comment before saying anything, so you are unbiased ;)

before: http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/4/6/23/f_0182m_f070178.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/6/23/f_0182m_f070178.jpg&srv=img34)

http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/4/6/23/f_0173m_4ac924b.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/6/23/f_0173m_4ac924b.jpg&srv=img29)

after:
http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/4/6/24/f_058m_babb71a.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/6/24/f_058m_babb71a.jpg&srv=img27)

http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/4/6/24/f_057m_42914f7.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/6/24/f_057m_42914f7.jpg&srv=img34)

soleluna

An encore of your results, with recipe and method in one place.

200 ml distilled water to 50 ml black locust honey, with 1 tsp cinnamon.

Applied to wet hair, covered with a shower cap for 1 hour only.

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 04:29 PM
According to this, 2 tablespoons = 42 grams or ml.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/conversions_of_measures/honey_measurements.html

So you would need 168 ml distilled water but what you used was close enough, IMO.

I see no point in making this too difficult.

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 04:50 PM
With the 4 parts water to 1 part honey dilution - incorrectly calculated - because of my oversight as it was - the reported honey lightening results still very much improved.

Less spice could be used with better results than before the 4 to 1.

Now with the correct calculations + distilled water, it looks as if even less spice can be used for great results.

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 04:51 PM
***** This is the current honey lightening recommendations post. *****

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096)

It is always updated - which means that if you save this link - you will always be up to date with what is happening in this thread.

There is a link to pictures of honey lightening included - See #15.

wintersun99
June 24th, 2008, 05:06 PM
***** This is the current honey lightening recommendations post. *****

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096)


Hi Ktani, :waving:
I've linked this post in my journal/blog so I can keep track of it, hope that's cool?

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 05:31 PM
wintersun99

That is exactly what I set up for - it is very cool.

Now - look at #15 - Jan in ID's results - then soleluna's results!

wintersun99
June 24th, 2008, 05:39 PM
...Now - look at #15 - Jan in ID's results - then soleluna's results!

I'm having a hard time seeing a difference in Jan in ID's hair color, although it appears that the root area/canopy area is lighter??? It could just be my laptop though, lot's of times I see a different color depending on my connection and which room I am in...

soleluna's hair is stunning! Just gorgeous!

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 05:43 PM
wintersun99

Jan in ID's colour difference is very visible to me.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=160564&postcount=1299

wintersun99
June 24th, 2008, 05:46 PM
ah ha! I just moved to a different room and I'm getting a better connection/picture (maybe it's a wi-fi thing?) but her color/lightening is definitely noticeable! way to go Jan :)

Jan in ID
June 24th, 2008, 05:49 PM
soleluna, your hair looks great!

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 05:49 PM
wintersun99

Sometimes it is the lighting in pictures - but not in this case.

You had me wondering there for a moment.

Jan in ID
June 24th, 2008, 05:49 PM
http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/JanInId/hairo042008_400x300.jpghttp://www.myhostedpics.com/images/JanInId/hair062108_400x300_350x262.jpghttp://www.myhostedpics.com/images/JanInId/hair062408.jpg

The 1st pic is virgin hair
The 2nd pic is after 2 honey treatments
The 3rd pic is after 3 honey treatments (sorry, it was windy today! :? )

I can see a big difference in pics 1 & 2, not a lot between 2 & 3 though.

Here is the recipe I used:

1/4 cup raw honey
1 cup distilled water
1 tbs evoo
1 tbs coconut oil
2 tbs cinnamon powder

Cover w/ plastic cap and leave on for 2 hours. Rinse, rinse, and rinse some more! Rinse again with mild ACV rinse.


This weekend I will use the following recipe:

1/8 cup raw honey (2 tbs or 42.5 grams)
3/4 cup distilled water (12 tbs or 170 grams)
1/2 tbs evoo
1/2 tbs coconut oil
1 tbs cinnamon

I'll let you know how it turns out!

Jan in ID
June 24th, 2008, 05:51 PM
ah ha! I just moved to a different room and I'm getting a better connection/picture (maybe it's a wi-fi thing?) but her color/lightening is definitely noticeable! way to go Jan :)

Thanks! :)

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 05:54 PM
http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/JanInId/hairo042008_400x300.jpghttp://www.myhostedpics.com/images/JanInId/hair062108_400x300_350x262.jpghttp://www.myhostedpics.com/images/JanInId/hair062408.jpg

The 1st pic is virgin hair
The 2nd pic is after 2 honey treatments
The 3rd pic is after 3 honey treatments (sorry, it was windy today! :? )

I can see a big difference in pics 1 & 2, not a lot between 2 & 3 though.

Here is the recipe I used:

1/4 cup raw honey
1 cup distilled water
1 tbs evoo
1 tbs coconut oil
2 tbs cinnamon powder

Cover w/ plastic cap and leave on for 2 hours. Rinse, rinse, and rinse some more! Rinse again with mild ACV rinse.


This weekend I will use the following recipe:

1/8 cup raw honey (2 tbs or 42.5 grams)
3/4 cup distilled water (12 tbs or 170 grams)
1/2 tbs evoo
1/2 tbs coconut oil
1 tbs cinnamon

I'll let you know how it turns out!

Jan in ID

Thank you for posting the new picture and for the new recipe.

I agree - the 2nd picture looks lighter than the other 2.

The lighting is also different in #3 but I can see a colour difference - it is just not as much of a contrast as between #'s 1 and 2.

Your new recipe is right on with the calculation.

EVOO has a higher peroxide value than coconut oil, so if you are going to use 1 tablespoon of oil - I suggest EVOO.

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 05:56 PM
***** This is the current honey lightening recommendations post. *****

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096)

It is always updated - which means that if you save this link - you will always be up to date with what is happening in this thread.

There is a link to pictures of honey lightening included - See #15.

Jan in ID
June 24th, 2008, 07:16 PM
EVOO has a higher peroxide value than coconut oil, so if you are going to use 1 tablespoon of oil - I suggest EVOO.

I may do this, as the coconut oil is also more difficult to wash out of my hair. Thanks

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 07:20 PM
Jan in ID

That is interesting.

I have read reports of it the other way around - evoo being harder to wash out of the hair than coconut oil.

If you can - when you need more evoo - try to find one that is pure evoo - some are blends of evoo and olive oil.

Those would have a lower peroxide value.

Aisha25
June 24th, 2008, 07:29 PM
Ktani.. I am wondering if there is a gentler way to apply honey and molasses?? When I apply these 2 things to my hair I always feel like I am pulling out hairs. It's so sticky and my hair feels like it's being rough handled. I always do oils in the mixes and conditioner in the molasses but when I apply it in my hair it gets hard to incorporate it in to every strand. Any tips or ideas??

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 07:46 PM
Ktani.. I am wondering if there is a gentler way to apply honey and molasses?? When I apply these 2 things to my hair I always feel like I am pulling out hairs. It's so sticky and my hair feels like it's being rough handled. I always do oils in the mixes and conditioner in the molasses but when I apply it in my hair it gets hard to incorporate it in to every strand. Any tips or ideas??

Aisha25

I would not mix honey and molasses together.

Have a look at this link - which I think I gave you before in pieces.
http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=807963&postcount=8 (http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=807963&postcount=8)

As for the application, I suggest applying a mix only to wet hair and use enough conditioner or oil reduce the stickiness of whichever one you use.

If you like use them alternately.

Honey - you can microwave - over 10 seconds - under 1 munute - so it will not lighten.

Aisha25
June 24th, 2008, 07:49 PM
Aisha25

I would not mix honey and molasses together.

Have a look at this link - which I think I gave you before in pieces.
http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=807963&postcount=8 (http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=807963&postcount=8)

As for the application, I suggest applying a mix only to wet hair and use enough conditioner or oil reduce the stickiness of whichever one you use.

If you like use them alternately.

Honey - you can microwave - over 10 seconds - under 1 munute - so it will not lighten.
Oh no no :lol: I dont use them together, I was just saying when I use honey or molasses. Sorry should be more clear:eek:.

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 07:56 PM
Aisha25

No worries

I suggest reading the link - it talks about honey and buttermilk and molasses and oil - with tips.

Aisha25
June 24th, 2008, 07:59 PM
Aisha25

No worries

I suggest reading the link - it talks about honey and buttermilk and molasses and oil - with tips.
Thanks ..I think I just have to use more conditioner to thin it out.

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 08:04 PM
Aisha25

That would work too, IMO.

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 08:05 PM
***** This is the current honey lightening recommendations post. *****

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096)

It is always updated - which means that if you save this link - you will always be up to date with what is happening in this thread.

There is a link to pictures of honey lightening included - See #15.

Jan in ID
June 24th, 2008, 08:12 PM
Jan in ID

That is interesting.

I have read reports of it the other way around - evoo being harder to wash out of the hair than coconut oil.

If you can - when you need more evoo - try to find one that is pure evoo - some are blends of evoo and olive oil.

Those would have a lower peroxide value.


I use evoo as a leave-in on my hair most nights and it washes out fine in the morning.
However, coconut oil is very hard for me to wash out. I tried to use it as a leave-in mixed with some aloe vera gel and it made my hair look like a big ol' greasy mess and I only used a tiny amount of coconut oil!

So using only evoo in my mix will be perfect. I am using 100% pure evoo.
And thinks for the reminder, I do need to buy another bottle! ;)

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 08:15 PM
Jan in Id

It is interesting to read how different oils work differently for people.

And you are most welcome.

ktani
June 24th, 2008, 08:18 PM
Aisha25

3 more things you could try - since you are not using the honey for lightening. The first 2 of these suggestions should work for molasses too.

1. Use a lighter conditioner.

2. Add water to the conditioner.

3. Microwave the honey - it has been reported to make the honey runnier - so it should be easier to work with.

Zenity
June 25th, 2008, 02:26 AM
Yep, I can confirm that cinnamon in boiling water has dyed my hair.
It looks more uniform in color.
Ladies if you need to get your hair darker this is the way to go! lol!
I have noticed how my ends are now darker, which I really like 'cause they were starting to show red, and I can't stand it.
But, what really shocks me is that from my roots to my middle (the darker part) looks now a bit lighter. ???
I will try again the original recipe and see how it goes.

My recipe was 25 ml of honey 100ml of water (in this case camomile and cinnamon tea) and a tbls of EVOO.

I will keep experimenting

Alley Cat
June 25th, 2008, 04:17 AM
Alley Cat

Depending on the honey, you may just need a weak vinegar rinse or rinsing instead of washing it out.

Different honeys have different residue levels.
I actually wash my hair after as my hair will be due to be washed when I am doing a treatment and I don't wash it before ; saving on water. I like how my hair feels after washing it. I have never tried just rinsing it out. :shrug:

My hair is lightening at least from when I first put the colour in which was almost black . I pretty much lost most of my red colour and I have a lot of red to brownish colour coming back now. I wouldn't say my results are as obvious as Jan in ID for instance. I really wish I had taken a picture right after I had put that colour in but was embarrassed at how it looked. When your husband is cracking jokes like : close the window when you fly out on your broomstick tonight you can imagine how dark it looked . :rolleyes:

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 04:47 AM
Yep, I can confirm that cinnamon in boiling water has dyed my hair.
It looks more uniform in color.
Ladies if you need to get your hair darker this is the way to go! lol!
I have noticed how my ends are now darker, which I really like 'cause they were starting to show red, and I can't stand it.
But, what really shocks me is that from my roots to my middle (the darker part) looks now a bit lighter. ???
I will try again the original recipe and see how it goes.

My recipe was 25 ml of honey 100ml of water (in this case camomile and cinnamon tea) and a tbls of EVOO.

will keep experimenting

Zenity

Thank you for your feedback.

What is your starting colour?

What exactly are you trying to do with the honey?

Chamomile tea has been reported to add a golden tone to hair.

Cinnamon - unboiled - has not been reported to add any colour of its own with honey lightening.


If you want to try to lighten your hair with honey and cinnamon - I suggest the following.

1. Use ground cinnamon.

2. Do not boil the ground cinnamon.

3. Do not apply any heat to the honey, ground cinnamon or oil.

4. If you do not want to add any colour - just use room temperature distilled water, no chamomile - then add honey - then ground cinnamon and oil.

You could also patch test and then try ground cardamom.

Do not apply any heat to ground cardamom either if you try it.

Your recipe proportion - 100 ml water to 25 ml honey - is fine.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 05:22 AM
I actually wash my hair after as my hair will be due to be washed when I am doing a treatment and I don't wash it before ; saving on water. I like how my hair feels after washing it. I have never tried just rinsing it out. :shrug:

My hair is lightening at least from when I first put the colour in which was almost black . I pretty much lost most of my red colour and I have a lot of red to brownish colour coming back now. I wouldn't say my results are as obvious as Jan in ID for instance. I really wish I had taken a picture right after I had put that colour in but was embarrassed at how it looked. When your husband is cracking jokes like : close the window when you fly out on your broomstick tonight you can imagine how dark it looked . :rolleyes:

Alley Cat

I am glad to read that you have gotten lightening.

With honey lightening, results do vary.

With the new recipes - even with distilled water - a lot depends on the honey.

Your new recipe proportion of water to honey sounds right on the mark.

Good luck with the Jarrah honey.

I hope that it arrives soon.

Alley Cat
June 25th, 2008, 05:30 AM
Alley Cat

I am glad to read that you have gotten lightening.

With honey lightening, results do vary.

With the new recipes - even with distilled water - a lot depends on the honey.

Your new recipe proportion of water to honey sounds right on the mark.

Good luck with the Jarrah honey.

I hope that it arrives soon.
Thanks :) I am using Manuka honey at the moment , but did you say there are 2 sorts of Manuka honey ?:ponder:
Anyway the Jarrah should be here by next week.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 05:36 AM
Alley Cat

Yes, manuka honeys vary - just like clover honeys and the others.

Even when you buy UMF manuka honey - there are different strengths.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 05:37 AM
***** This is the current honey lightening recommendations post. *****

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096)

It is always updated - which means that if you save this link - you will always be up to date with what is happening in this thread.

There is a link to pictures of honey lightening included - See #15.

Alley Cat
June 25th, 2008, 05:44 AM
Alley Cat

Yes, manuka honeys vary - just like clover honeys and the others.

Even when you buy UMF manuka honey - there are different strengths.
Ok mine doesn't say UMF manuka it just says manuka. :shrug:

Robinlyn
June 25th, 2008, 05:46 AM
I tried a honey treatment on my hair last night. My hair has some lighter strands today! I didn't take pics because it was late and didn't think it would show up well on camera. I would like to do another treatment soon and I will take some pics! I recently tried henna on my hair and it is a little too dark for my liking. I would like to bring out my natural golden tones. Here's what I did....
1 cup camomile tea
1/4 cup of wildflower honey
2T cinnamon
wraped in plastic wrap and left it on for 1.5 hrs.
Thanks again for all this info!!

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 05:56 AM
Ok mine doesn't say UMF manuka it just says manuka. :shrug:

Alley Cat

It is difficult when buying honey to predict which ones will work somtimes.

From the research - dark coloured honey blends were reported to have higher peroxide values.

That is why I created - with help from everyone here - the Successful Honeys list in the link I am now adding to every page of this thread - and I caution against which honeys are known to contain high levels of Vitamin C.

Even if you tested a honey for its peroxide value - you would have to buy special test strips and buy the honey first before testing it - an expensive proposition.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 06:03 AM
I tried a honey treatment on my hair last night. My hair has some lighter strands today! I didn't take pics because it was late and didn't think it would show up well on camera. I would like to do another treatment soon and I will take some pics! I recently tried henna on my hair and it is a little too dark for my liking. I would like to bring out my natural golden tones. Here's what I did....
1 cup camomile tea
1/4 cup of wildflower honey
2T cinnamon
wraped in plastic wrap and left it on for 1.5 hrs.
Thanks again for all this info!!

Robinlyn

You are most welcome.

Thank you for posting your recipe and method.

I am glad to read that you got some lightening.

I suggest that you try distilled water - you can still make the chamomile tea with it - just make sure that you cool the tea to room temperature before adding the honey and the rest of the ingredients, including the ground cinnamon.

Also - add more water - 1/4 cup of honey with the correct 4 parts water to 1 part honey dilution - needs 1 1/2 cups water.

If that is more mix than you need - just use ml - it is easier, IMO.

50 ml of honey for example would need 200 ml of distilled water for the optimal dilution.

Alley Cat
June 25th, 2008, 06:03 AM
Alley Cat

It is difficult when buying honey to predict which ones will work somtimes.

From the research - dark coloured honey blends were reported to have higher peroxide values.

That is why I created - with help from everyone here - the Successful Honeys list in the link I am now adding to every page of this thread - and I caution against which honeys are known to contain high levels of Vitamin C.

Even if you tested a honey for its peroxide value - you would have to buy special test strips and buy the honey first before testing it - an expensive proposition.
This honey is the darkest one I have bought .
The first one was quite light, the second darker and this one even more darker.
The first one still sits in the fridge I only used it once.
So the jarrah should be really dark do you think or it wouldn't matter ?
I will see soon enough. :)

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 06:18 AM
Alley Cat

From what I have read on Jarrah honey - the colour of it varies - it may not be that dark when you get it - it is part of what makes honey, honey - colours vary sometimes with the same kind of honey.

This is where people are getting confused.

The research said dark coloured honey blends - not just dark coloured honey.

bunnyears tried a very dark coloured buckwheat honey - based on it being dark.

Buckwheat honey cotains high levels of Vitamin C and it did not work for her.

So there are a couple of things to consider here.

1. Avoid the honeys listed in the recommendations link that contain high Vitamin C levels.

2. If buying a honey that is not on the Successful Honeys list or recommended like Jarrah honey - the key - is a dark coloured honey blend - not just a dark coloured honey.

Alley Cat
June 25th, 2008, 06:26 AM
Alley Cat

From what I have read on Jarrah honey - the colour of it varies - it may not be that dark when you get it - it is part of what makes honey, honey - colours vary sometimes with the same kind of honey.

This is where people are getting confused.

The research said dark coloured honey blends - not just dark coloured honey.

bunnyears tried a very dark coloured buckwheat honey - based on it being dark.

Buckwheat honey cotains high levels of Vitamin C and it did not work for her.

So there are a couple of things to consider here.

1. Avoid the honeys listed in the recommendations link that contain high Vitamin C levels.

2. If buying a honey that is not on the Successful Honeys list or recommended like Jarrah honey - the key - is a dark coloured honey blend - not just a dark coloured honey.

Ok understood. My honeys just said honey apart from the Manuka so I guess you wouldn't know what sort of honey they were . It won't matter when I get the jarrah as it is recommended. :)

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 06:35 AM
Alley Cat

Honey blends state that they are blends on the jar or bottle - unless for example they are one kind of honey like clover - it will just say clover - but there may be more than one kind of clover in there.

The reasoning behind the blends of honey for honey lightening is this.

Aside from avoiding a blend that contains a honey with a high level of Vitamin C - you may not be able to tell - some honey blends do not state the kinds of honey in the blend.

The idea is that because it is a mix of honeys - the average works out to be a higher peroxide level than perhaps each honey in it alone would have.

And dark coloured honey blends were found to have higher peroxide values than lighter coloured honey blends.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 06:44 AM
For anyone who might be considering buying Jarrah honey.

The research said that on average - Jarrah honey was found to have a 54% higher peroxide level than manuka honey.

But the colour of Jarrah honey can vary.

That is not significant - the peroxide level is signifiant.

So - if you buy Jarrah honey and it is light in colour - no worries.

Research has confirmed that Jarrah honey has high peroxide levels.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 06:45 AM
***** This is the current honey lightening recommendations post. *****

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096)

It is always updated - which means that if you save this link - you will always be up to date with what is happening in this thread.

There is a link to pictures of honey lightening included - See #15.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 07:05 AM
I just heard back from another possible Jarrah honey supplier - they currently have no stock but are expecting to have some soon.

When I can confirm that, I will add them to the list and confirm international shipping.

What is good IMO, about making inquiries is that you get to see how well vendors reply and get an idea about their customer service.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 09:45 AM
Just a reminder.

Body heat does not affect the peroxide in honey, based on the research on wound healing and reported results.

However, other sources of heat can affect peroxide.

"Hydrogen peroxide .... contact with heat .... usually decompose into water and oxygen ...."
http://web1.caryacademy.org/chemistry/rushin/StudentProjects/CompoundWebSites/2000/HydrogenPeroxide/home.htm

That is consistant with other information I have read on heat negatively affecting the peroxide level of honey.

And why I recommend that no external heat be used with honey lightening treatments.

The honey lightening boosters - ground cinnamon and ground cardamom - should never be heated or boiled when used for lightening hair.

Aisha25
June 25th, 2008, 09:53 AM
What happens if you boil the cinnamon or cardamom? And also will the honey lightning be altered if you do a hot towel is applied on the hair?

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 09:57 AM
What happens if you boil the cinnamon or cardamom? And also will the honey lightning be altered if you do a hot towel is applied on the hair?

Aisha25

"Hydrogen peroxide upon contact with heat .... usually decompose into water and oxygen ...."
http://web1.caryacademy.org/chemistry/rushin/StudentProjects/CompoundWebSites/2000/HydrogenPeroxide/home.htm

That is consistant with other information I have read on heat negatively affecting the peroxide level of honey.

And why I recommend that no external heat be used with honey lightening treatments.

Body heat does not affect the peroxide in honey, based on the research on wound healing and reported results.

LuXious
June 25th, 2008, 10:01 AM
Just a reminder.

Body heat does not affect the peroxide in honey, based on the research on wound healing and reported results.

However, other sources of heat can affect peroxide.

"Hydrogen peroxide .... contact with heat .... usually decompose into water and oxygen ...."
http://web1.caryacademy.org/chemistry/rushin/StudentProjects/CompoundWebSites/2000/HydrogenPeroxide/home.htm

That is consistant with other information I have read on heat negatively affecting the peroxide level of honey.

And why I recommend that no external heat be used with honey lightening treatments.

The honey lightening boosters - ground cinnamon and ground cardamom - should never be heated or boiled when used for lightening hair.

Well, there ya go. That's probably why my honey and cinnamon hasn't been working. I've been mixing it with hot water thinking that would somehow encourage peroxide release. Why would I think that? I don't know.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 10:07 AM
LuXious

I am now putting the honey lightening recommendations link on every page of this thread - it is the first post on this page.

Do not feel too bad - there have been a number of people starting a while back who have been boiling ground cinnamon.

I am told that comes from henna recipes.

I am trying to get the point across that it makes the cinnamon useless for lightening but it still comes up.

Aisha25
June 25th, 2008, 10:09 AM
LuXious

I am now putting the honey lightening recommendations link on every page of this thread - it is the first post on this page.

Do not feel too bad - there have been a number of people starting a while back who have been boiling ground cinnamon.

I am told that comes from henna recipes.

I am trying to get the point across that it makes the cinnamon useless for lightening but it still comes up.
:lol: I guess some people dont get it;). Maybe they think it'll make it smell good or darken up or something.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 10:15 AM
:lol: I guess some people dont get it;). Maybe they think it'll make it smell good or darken up or something.

Aisha25

This thread is about honey lightening.

While I am happy to help with questions on darkening hair - like using molasses - separately for those who ask for my help - I see no point in someone deliberately using something to darken their hair in a honey lightening recipe.

Somehow the message never got across to those who still boil cinnamon.

Other than body heat - heat can destroy the peroxide in honey lightening ingredients.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 10:26 AM
And the fact that when people report 0 to poor results with honey lightening when they have added heat to recipe ingredients - has not gotten through to others either.

That is why I repeat things in this thread.

The research + the results reported, confirm the information.

Honey lightening ingredients should never be heated.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 10:26 AM
***** This is the current honey lightening recommendations post. *****

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096)

It is always updated - which means that if you save this link - you will always be up to date with what is happening in this thread.

There is a link to pictures of honey lightening included - See #15.

soleluna
June 25th, 2008, 10:49 AM
ktani why don't you out the link to the reccomendations in the first post of the thread instead of repeating it in every page?

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 11:11 AM
ktani why don't you out the link to the reccomendations in the first post of the thread instead of repeating it in every page?

soleluna

I appreciate your input. I have thought this through.

The link is on the first page, to help those who are new to the thread, so they will not be intimidated by the sheer size of it now.

I have repeated the contents of the link every few pages - but the thread moves too fast and it can be difficult to navigate through.

The link is now on every page because people tend to do 3 things: 1. read the first page of a thread 2. if they have been following a thread, they do not reread the first page again because 3. they just need to read the last page or so to catch up.

Everything is in that link, which is just one post, and I always update it. It can easily be saved as a reference. That is why I wrote it.

By leaving it link form, I only have to update the text once - not repeatedly, as I did when I posted the full contents.

People can use it as a checklist and stay current, without having to search through pages of posts, to find things.

And if someone wants to check something, they don't have to flip back and forth because the link is now on the page they are reading.

nicolina
June 25th, 2008, 01:40 PM
Hi- This might already be covered in this post, or properly belong elsewhere, but hopefully you can help. I've noticed some people suggest that honey is good for conditioning your hair. How would I go about doing this, and can I do it without lightening my hair? Should I just stick with oil treatments? Do you just... put honey in your hair, leave it and wash it out, or is it more sophisticated?

Thanks!

Aisha25
June 25th, 2008, 01:49 PM
Hi- This might already be covered in this post, or properly belong elsewhere, but hopefully you can help. I've noticed some people suggest that honey is good for conditioning your hair. How would I go about doing this, and can I do it without lightening my hair? Should I just stick with oil treatments? Do you just... put honey in your hair, leave it and wash it out, or is it more sophisticated?

Thanks!
Ktani is not online right now when she comes back she can tell you more,but I think I can be of some help to answer this since I have done it many times before. Honey can be used for moisturizing if you dont want the lightning just microwave your honey for 30seconds and apply it in your hair with some oil. I do 1/2 cup honey with 1/4 cup olive oil slather it on your hair then apply hot towel for 30mins then wash it off. Make sure to do acv rinse to remove any honey residue. Hope that helps. Also you can mix honey with conditioner and almond oil it helps with the frizzies.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 01:50 PM
nicolina

The way honey is used to condition hair traditionally here - is to mix it with conditioner - a few tablespoons or 2 parts conditioner to 1 part honey and apply it to wet hair. It can also be applied to dry hair.

Then cover the hair with plastic - a bag or shower cap - and let it stay on the hair for an hour or longer.

Some add aloe vera gel - that is called an SMT - there is a thread referring to that name.

To prevent the honey from lightening - microwave it first - for over 10 seconds - under 1 minute.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 02:00 PM
Aisha25

I did not see your post - it looks like we both posted at approximately the same time.

Yes, a vinegar rinse or shampoo will remove honey residue if there is any - which can be felt in the form of dry hair and ends following any treatment with honey.

nicolina
June 25th, 2008, 02:09 PM
Thanks ktani and Aisha25!

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 02:11 PM
nicolina

You are very welcome.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 03:24 PM
Another thing to keep in mind with honey, ground spices and oils, is this.

Store them away from heat, light and moisture at room temperature - a cupboard will do just fine.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 03:25 PM
***** This is the current honey lightening recommendations post. *****

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096)

It is always updated - which means that if you save this link - you will always be up to date with what is happening in this thread.

There is a link to pictures of honey lightening included - See #15.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 04:50 PM
Storing honey lightening ingredients

Honey
"Store honey at room temperature with .... lid on tightly."
http://www.honeybeecentre.com/qs/page/4992/4983/57 (http://www.honeybeecentre.com/qs/page/4992/4983/57)

Ground spices
"Ground spices will keep .... 1 year .... Spices should be kept away from the heat, light and humidity .... prevent flavor and color loss." http://clark.wsu.edu/family/General-food-safety/CleaningOutKitchenCupboard.pdf (http://clark.wsu.edu/family/General-food-safety/CleaningOutKitchenCupboard.pdf)

Coconut oil
"Coconut oil's fatty acid profile .... about 92% saturated fat, making it very stable and safe to store at room temperature."
http://www.spectrumorganics.com/?id=247

"To ideally safeguard the nutritive value and longevity of your oils, keep them in a cool (40° F to 72° F), dark cupboard until opening .... then store them in your refrigerator. Storage under these conditions provides .... shelf life of 10-14 months for unrefined oils, and 14-20 months for refined oils."
http://www.spectrumorganics.com/?id=16 (http://www.spectrumorganics.com/?id=16)


Extra Virgin Olive Oil
"Olive oil connoisseurs recommend storing .... extra-virgin olive oils at room temperature."
http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/how-olive-oil-works3.htm (http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/how-olive-oil-works3.htm)

Water
Store .... water .... in a cool, dark place.
Replace water every six months."
http://www.ci.annapolis.md.us/info.asp?page=2839

Opened water
"To minimize exposure to bacteria, open a container just before use and then refrigerate it .... If no refrigeration .... available, keep the container up high, away from children and pets.
Direct heat and light .... slowly damage plastic containers resulting in eventual leakage .... they should be stored in a dark, cool and dry place.
Water can also be stored in a freezer."
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/SS439

Alley Cat
June 25th, 2008, 06:19 PM
Alley Cat

Honey blends state that they are blends on the jar or bottle - unless for example they are one kind of honey like clover - it will just say clover - but there may be more than one kind of clover in there.

The reasoning behind the blends of honey for honey lightening is this.

Aside from avoiding a blend that contains a honey with a high level of Vitamin C - you may not be able to tell - some honey blends do not state the kinds of honey in the blend.

The idea is that because it is a mix of honeys - the average works out to be a higher peroxide level than perhaps each honey in it alone would have.

And dark coloured honey blends were found to have higher peroxide values than lighter coloured honey blends.
Ok thank you for that. :)

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 06:28 PM
Alley Cat

You are welcome.

Robinlyn
June 25th, 2008, 06:56 PM
Robinlyn

You are most welcome.

Thank you for posting your recipe and method.

I am glad to read that you got some lightening.

I suggest that you try distilled water - you can still make the chamomile tea with it - just make sure that you cool the tea to room temperature before adding the honey and the rest of the ingredients, including the ground cinnamon.

Also - add more water - 1/4 cup of honey with the correct 4 parts water to 1 part honey dilution - needs 1 1/2 cups water.

If that is more mix than you need - just use ml - it is easier, IMO.

50 ml of honey for example would need 200 ml of distilled water for the optimal dilution.

Wow, thank you once again! I will try the distilled water next time & more water. I am very impressed with your honey knowledge. :agree:

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 07:00 PM
Robinlyn

Thank you.

And you are most welcome.

squiggyflop
June 25th, 2008, 07:32 PM
hey everyone! ok so i took a better pic outside today..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/th_after2honeytreatmentssun.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/after2honeytreatmentssun.jpg)
as you can see its not a weird marroon shade when the sun hits it anymore! i still want some of it to be a bit lighter.. i think ill do annother honey treatment tomorrow.. but this time im going to try and apply it only to the hair that needs it.. hopefully soon i will get my desired shade

thanks so much ktani for being so helpful!

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 07:46 PM
hey everyone! ok so i took a better pic outside today..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/th_after2honeytreatmentssun.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/after2honeytreatmentssun.jpg)
as you can see its not a weird marroon shade when the sun hits it anymore! i still want some of it to be a bit lighter.. i think ill do annother honey treatment tomorrow.. but this time im going to try and apply it only to the hair that needs it.. hopefully soon i will get my desired shade

thanks so much ktani for being so helpful!

squiggyflop

You are most welcome.

Yes it looks more red - much less burgundy.

You are definitely making progress, IMO.

The credit for the tint brush idea goes to mellie - it is her method.

You expanded on that which is great - someone else suggested a blush brush - the idea though started with mellie.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 08:35 PM
This is a signature test.

squiggyflop
June 25th, 2008, 08:35 PM
THIS JUST IN! my dad said he will pick up some distilled water for me!! usually he would say he wasnt going to buy water when it comes out of the tap but when i mentioned it on the phone after reading ktani's PM he said yes without even asking any questions on what it was for! i hope he remembers.. the last time he said yes to buying me something like that without asking questions he totally forgot because he wasnt really listening and just said yes to shut me up.. *crosses fingers* i might even do a treatment tonight if he gets home soon enough.. i wonder if it would be ok to sleep with the treatment on my head.. ive slept with henna before.. and ive already got a pillow with a vinyl cover from when my short hair needed longer time for henna..(the bleach damaged hair never took henna very well so i would have to soak it longer)

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 08:43 PM
squiggyflop

I hope for your sake he remembers - you are so excited.

I think if you can stay up for 1 hour longer, it will be more comfortable than sleeping in the treatment - I have done that in the past with conditioning treatments.

No harm done if you sleep in the treatment though.

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 09:04 PM
Another signature test.

squiggyflop
June 25th, 2008, 09:05 PM
squiggyflop

I hope for your sake he remembers - you are so excited.

I think if you can stay up for 1 hour longer, it will be more comfortable than sleeping in the treatment - I have done that in the past with conditioning treatments.

No harm done if you sleep in the treatment though.
im both sad and annoyed.. my dad couldnt find the distilled water at stop and shop so he asked someone who worked there and they said that they are all out and they dont carry as much of it as before because they had to make room for all the different spring waters.. i feel annoyed with the store and happy with my dad for trying.. i mean really spring water is spring water there is no reason for there to be 30 brands taking up a whole aisle.. grrr.. oh well..

its good to know that no harm will be done from sleeping with the treatment..

will it be lighter the longer it stays on my hair or does it pretty much stop after an hour?..

im so sleepy already..

if i sleep with the treatment on im sure ill wake up in the middle of the night to my dog licking my hair.. he really loves the taste of honey.. i found him today with the disposable shower cap i used last time.. he had dug it out of the garbage.. im glad he was only licking it.. he would have gotten sick if he had eaten a shower cap..

ktani
June 25th, 2008, 09:18 PM
im both sad and annoyed.. my dad couldnt find the distilled water at stop and shop so he asked someone who worked there and they said that they are all out and they dont carry as much of it as before because they had to make room for all the different spring waters.. i feel annoyed with the store and happy with my dad for trying.. i mean really spring water is spring water there is no reason for there to be 30 brands taking up a whole aisle.. grrr.. oh well..

its good to know that no harm will be done from sleeping with the treatment..

will it be lighter the longer it stays on my hair or does it pretty much stop after an hour?..

im so sleepy already..

if i sleep with the treatment on im sure ill wake up in the middle of the night to my dog licking my hair.. he really loves the taste of honey.. i found him today with the disposable shower cap i used last time.. he had dug it out of the garbage.. im glad he was only licking it.. he would have gotten sick if he had eaten a shower cap..

squiggyflop

I am happy for you that your dad tried and sad for you that he was unable to buy it.

No, honey lightening treatments do not damage hair, based on reports and supported by research on the ingredients.

The peroxide does not stop after 1 hour but there is only so much peroxide in a treatment.

I do not think that honey should not hurt your dog but I would not let him have too much of it. Just to be sure - call your vet and ask - I found very little online about it which shocked me - Yahoo and Wiki answers are not sources I trust.

You might want to rinse it off the next shower cap before throwing it out.

squiggyflop
June 26th, 2008, 01:56 AM
squiggyflop

I am happy for you that your dad tried and sad for you that he was unable to buy it.

No, honey lightening treatments do not damage hair, based on reports and supported by research on the ingredients.

The peroxide does not stop after 1 hour but there is only so much peroxide in a treatment.

I do not think that honey should not hurt your dog but I would not let him have too much of it. Just to be sure - call your vet and ask - I found very little online about it which shocked me - Yahoo and Wiki answers are not sources I trust.

You might want to rinse it off the next shower cap before throwing it out.
yeah im too lazy to rinse the cap.. i just put it into a different garbage that is inside a cabinet and out of his reach..

i did annother treatment tonight.. i was highly alarmed as i was washing it out of my hair.. i was washing it out and i realized it was mushy.. MUSHY mushy like back when i used to bleach my hair white all the time.. the second i got out of the shower i grabbed my microscope kit off the shelf.. i got out the old slide of my bleached white hair and the slide of my henna only hair.. and made a new slide with three different sections of a hair shed in the shower tonight.. one section was the virgin+honey from my roots.. the second section was from my henna+honey hair.. and then the third was from my ends which are bleach+henna+honey..
well the bleached white hair looked horrible.. practicly shredded cuticle..
my henna only slide was perfect.. nice smooth edges and copper colored core (even my bleached white hair has a copper core because my natural color is auburn but it looked nicer with smooth edges)

so i worked backwards from there on the hair i shed tonight..

i looked at the ends that had originally been bleached white and then hennaed then honey treated..

the damage was pretty bad but not as bad as the plain bleached white slide.. i think the henna is to blame for the repair.. i was sort of happy at how much better the henna made my hair..

ok so then i looked at the henna+honey hair

well i definitly noticed that the hairs edges are much less smooth in comparason to the henna only slide i made about a week ago.. i was pretty shocked to say the least.. the only thing that changed in my routine was the honey treatments..
at that point i was starting to think that the honey was as damaging as the peroxide based hair bleach i was using before.. and i thought back on sun in spray and how the hairs with sun in looked really simalar in damage levels.. and after that i started to remember what sun in did to my hair..

then i looked at the virgin+honey section and saw that it was rough on the edges too.. i did a cold water and vinagar rinse so im pretty sure that it shouldnt be that rough.. at this point i was wondering if any amount of peroxide is damaging.. im not using as much as when i bleached my hair white but damage is damage.. and its rather upsetting to me..

however i was happy to see that all my cores were copper colored.. including the bleached white hair..
i was also very interested in how the split on my end hair looked..

after all of that i got bored and started looking at some hair i had bought at a craft store.. i was really exited when i realized that it wasnt synthetic but real animal hair.. it had a big fat medulla that was constant.. i couldnt find my medulla in my hairs.. i wonder what animal has white blond hair thats 4 feet long.. it definately wasnt human with a medulla that thick..

so anyway.. question.. the peroxide is what is damaging in sun-in spray and hair bleach so wouldnt that make honey damaging?.. it might just be a small amount of damage..

man i wish i had one of those microscope cameras.. that would be cool

ETA: someone please tell me its an anomaly and tell me i havent ruined my hair!! tell me that the peroxide that honey produses is not the same chemical that was in my hair bleach that i used to use.. tell me that they just share the same name and they are actually very different:( someone please break out the microscope in your closit and prove that its just because my shampoo is unbalanced or something come on anyone? anyone got a microscope?

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 06:12 AM
squiggyflop

The cuticle could have been a little rough from honey residue. The vinegar rinse should take care of that.

A few people have reported that their hair is in better condition post-honey lightening than prehoney lightening.

Honey lightening has not been reported to further damage previously damaged hair.

blackfrostqueen on her previously damaged hair
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=113522&postcount=717

blackfrostqueen on honey lightening and her previously damaged hair
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=113529&postcount=719

The hydrogen peroxide in the treatment is hydrogen peroxide. The amount of peroxide in honey for example though, is approximately 1000 times less than 3% conventional peroxide. And honey has built-in mechanisms that are protective against hydrogen peroxide damage.

See "Hydrogen peroxide activity"
"hydrogen peroxide concentration produced in honey activated by dilution is typically .... about 1000 times less than in the 3% solution .... used as an antiseptic.

…. harmful effects of hydrogen peroxide …. further reduced .... honey sequesters and inactivates the free iron which catalyses the formation of oxygen free radicals produced by hydrogen peroxide .... and its antioxidant components help to mop up oxygen free radicals ....”
http://www.worldwidewounds.com/2001/november/Molan/honey-as-topical-agent.html

The amount of peroxide in the honey lightening peroxide boosters like ground cinnamon, is less than that of honey.

There are constituents in the honey lightening peroxide containing ingredients, including honey, that have been shown clinically, to protect human cells from hydrogen peroxide damage.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=123822&postcount=974

Fom this post
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=127314&postcount=1035

The peroxide produced by honey has been reported in research, to be non-damaging to human tissue.

See "Importance of Antibacterial Activity"
"Honey .... reported to cause no tissue damage ...."
http://bio.waikato.ac.nz/honey/honey_intro.shtml#Hydrogen

How is you hair now?

No one has reported mushy hair after a honey lightening treatment in any of the 5 Honey threads, including this one.

Even though the 4 to 1 dilution allows the maximum honey peroxide value to be produced in a shorter time - previously, people were doing multiple honey lightening treatments over long periods of time and for long hours each time - and no damage to the hair was reported.

What has been ocassionally reported is dry hair and crunchy ends - a honey residue result - reported to be easily fixed with a vinegar rinse or shampooing.

I am very interested in the condition of your hair.

The damage results reported in other threads, post-conventional hydrogen peroxide treatments, have been gummy, weak, thin, split and broken hair.

No one has reported those results post-honey lightening in the Honey threads.

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 09:16 AM
ok sorry about the late response.. my computor monitor died last night.. luckily we had an extra one brand new just sitting still in its box.. however dad didnt install it until morning.. i just woke up..

so im an idiot and i forgot to take pictures before the honey treatmentstreatments.. but just beleive me when i say its a bit lighter.. especially by the roots.. however i still have some henna thats too dark so maybe ill do annother treatment.. maybe not today because im having a good hair day and i dont want to ruin it..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/th_lengthafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/lengthafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/th_rootsafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/rootsafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/th_topafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/kidmol/topafter2honeytreatmentsjune2008.jpg)
in the top pic you can see that there is still some dark hair that i need to deal with.. but that pic shows well how much lighter the roots got.. the darker hair is a bit lighter.. i wish it was sunny out this morning so you all could really see..

second and third pictures are of my lightened roots.. *sigh* i havent done henna since april and i only have like an inch of roots.. my hair usually grows wicked fast in the summer i dont understand it..

squiggyflop

I usually always ask about the condition of the hair right after someone reports results.

I did not after your report here, because of what you wrote about a good hair day. This was your first treatment with the 4 to 1 dilution with just water.

Did you do anything different today (earliy this morning) - use any other product that you did not use before or after your previous honey lightening treatments?

You reported one treatment earlier, with conditioner, but there is no follow up report from you on the results of that one.

I do not think that your hair has been damaged from honey lightening. I think that there would have been some indication before today, after the 2 previous treatments, that there was a problem. And the results from the treatment in this post, just prior to your latest treatment, you reported to be good.

And there is no indication here, in your post from yesterday, that your hair was in trouble from the last treatment.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=166622&postcount=1457

I am at a loss though, to explain the mushy hair feeling.

Please keep me updated on the condition of your hair.

squiggyflop
June 26th, 2008, 01:06 PM
ok so i woke up a little while ago.. i went to go wash my hair because i was sweating all night (actually i went to bed at 6am so i was sweating all day).. the mushy feeling is still there.. i made some new slides to look under my microscope and the edges are still rough on the hair.. i then took a single hair and rinsed it with vinagar+water solution.. no change under the microscope.. then i tried ice water on a new hair.. no visable change under the microscope.. then i tried using a cone filled detangler spray on one of my hairs.. very interesting result there.. the cutical looked smoother but there was a weird coating on the hair.. then i tried some camellia oil.. hair under microscope looked a little smoother but again there was a strange coating

maybe my honey is bad? my hair feels weird and tangly.. i will report back if there is any change on my head or under the microscope

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 01:12 PM
ok so i woke up a little while ago.. i went to go wash my hair because i was sweating all night (actually i went to bed at 6am so i was sweating all day).. the mushy feeling is still there.. i made some new slides to look under my microscope and the edges are still rough on the hair.. i then took a single hair and rinsed it with vinagar+water solution.. no change under the microscope.. then i tried ice water on a new hair.. no visable change under the microscope.. then i tried using a cone filled detangler spray on one of my hairs.. very interesting result there.. the cutical looked smoother but there was a weird coating on the hair.. then i tried some camellia oil.. hair under microscope looked a little smoother but again there was a strange coating

maybe my honey is bad? my hair feels weird and tangly.. i will report back if there is any change on my head or under the microscope

squiggyflop

What you are describing, the coating, the tangling, I think, is honey residue.

This has been reported before, it was just not described as a mushy feeling.

It has been reported to be easily resolved with shampoo and/or a vinegar rinse. Sometimes more than 1 shampooing has been necessary.

I think that from the last honey lightening treatment to this - you got a honey residue build-up.

You do not need to clarify with anything too strong, IMO.

I suggest rewashing your hair with shampoo - undiluted, then use a vinegar rinse.

For the vinegar rinse, I suggest 1 tsp white vinegar to 24 oz of water.

Leave the rinse on the hair for 30-60 seconds, then rinse it out.

Some honeys leave fewer residues than others.

I also think switching to distilled water when you can, will make a difference too.

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 01:56 PM
squiggyflop

I think that you have verified the problem with your microscope.

You have seen the coating, honey residue, IMO.

squiggyflop
June 26th, 2008, 01:58 PM
squiggyflop

What you are describing, the coating, the tangling, I think, is honey residue.

This has been reported before, it was just not described as a mushy feeling.

It has been reported to be easily resolved with shampoo and/or a vinegar rinse. Sometimes more than 1 shampooing has been necessary.

I think that from the last honey lightening treatment to this - you got a honey residue build-up.

You do not need to clarify with anything too strong, IMO.

I suggest rewashing your hair with shampoo - undiluted, then use a vinegar rinse.

For the vinegar rinse, I suggest 1 tsp white vinegar to 24 oz of water.

Leave the rinse on the hair for 30-60 seconds, then rinse it out.

Some honeys leave fewer residues than others.

I also think switching to distilled water when you can, will make a difference too.
i shampood my hair with full strength clarifying shampoo today because of your suggestion of residue that you posted this morning.. is white vinagar better than ACV? so i should rinse out the vinagar rinse? hmmm i never heard of anyone doing that before.. ill have to try it..

so my honey must leave alot of residue compared to the others on the thread.. interesting..

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 02:11 PM
i shampood my hair with full strength clarifying shampoo today because of your suggestion of residue that you posted this morning.. is white vinagar better than ACV? so i should rinse out the vinagar rinse? hmmm i never heard of anyone doing that before.. ill have to try it..

so my honey must leave alot of residue compared to the others on the thread.. interesting..

squiggyflop

Some people have reported no problem with honey residue while others have.

There was one report from the same person, who used 2 different honeys - 1 left a residue - the other did not.

Acv can leave a colour on the hair - a red/gold tone - which has been reported to be a problem for lighter coloured hair.

brok3nwings had a problem with acv doing that on her blonde hair - it left it brassy.

IMO, white vinegar is preferable to acv.

There has been discussion on the boards about which is better for the hair.

Both have the same acetic acid level usually, around 5%.

That level is what will determine how much of an effect vinegar will have on the hair. There are vinegars with higher levels.

I recommend white vinegar. The acetic acid level is written on the bottle or jug.

There have been no reports in any Honey thread, of white vinegar causing problems with the condition of the hair.

Just do not make your vinegar rinse too strong. Leave it on the hair for 30-60 seconds, then I recommend, rinsing it out.

The vinegar rinse recipe and method, of 1 tsp white vinegar to 24 oz of water, was created by Maluhia, who used it successfully on her colour-treated hair. She was the first to report the 30-60 second, then rinsing it out method, in the original Honey thread.

firebird
June 26th, 2008, 02:44 PM
Hi squiggyflop, I hope the vinegar takes care of the honey residue for you!

ktani PM'ed me about your dog licking the cinnamon/honey mixture as I am a holistic veterinarian :) I don't think you should let him (? sorry if I mean her) lick your hair with honey/cinnamon on. The honey should not cause any problems but I am a little nervous about the cinnamon. Cinnamon is used in Chinese herbal medicine for dogs, but then you know the exact type/amount of cinnamon and are giving it for a specific reason, and also it seems that the cinnamon bought in grocery stores is cassia cinnamon (thanks ktani!), not the same as the cinnamon used in Chinese medicine and known to be safe. Also, we know how irritant cinnamon can be on the skin, so I would not want your dog to suffer this on his/her tongue, also there is a possibility of allergies (low, but still possible), which could even be fatal, especially at night when everyone is asleep. So I think if you would like to sleep with the treatment on your hair, make sure your dog cannot get into your room or get at anything with the honey/cinnamon on. I hope you get better results with the honey soon!

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 02:52 PM
firebird

Thank you so much for replying.

You are always helpful and kind.

I remembered that you were a veterinarian late last night.

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 03:00 PM
firebird

When I was trying to find out if honey can be harmful to dogs last night online, I was very surprised to find no reputable sources that did not want money for the answer.

Is honey safe for dogs, cats - pets?

squiggyflop
June 26th, 2008, 03:03 PM
Hi squiggyflop, I hope the vinegar takes care of the honey residue for you!

ktani PM'ed me about your dog licking the cinnamon/honey mixture as I am a holistic veterinarian :) I don't think you should let him (? sorry if I mean her) lick your hair with honey/cinnamon on. The honey should not cause any problems but I am a little nervous about the cinnamon. Cinnamon is used in Chinese herbal medicine for dogs, but then you know the exact type/amount of cinnamon and are giving it for a specific reason, and also it seems that the cinnamon bought in grocery stores is cassia cinnamon (thanks ktani!), not the same as the cinnamon used in Chinese medicine and known to be safe. Also, we know how irritant cinnamon can be on the skin, so I would not want your dog to suffer this on his/her tongue, also there is a possibility of allergies (low, but still possible), which could even be fatal, especially at night when everyone is asleep. So I think if you would like to sleep with the treatment on your hair, make sure your dog cannot get into your room or get at anything with the honey/cinnamon on. I hope you get better results with the honey soon!
thats very interesting.. i didnt think it could be too harmful.. yes cinnamon is irritating.. i hope he didnt burn his tongue.. poor puppy..

if i slept with the treatment i would have to sleep in the living room.. so i guess i would have to lock jack in with my dad for the night..

firebird
June 26th, 2008, 03:12 PM
ktani, I do not *think* that honey is harmful to dogs/cats. I have never heard of it being poisonous, and when I checked out a few of the professional veterinary sites I have access to, it was not mentioned in lists of poisonous foods and I could find no reference to it at all apart from use on wounds. Therefore I think it *should* be ok, especially in small amounts as we are talking about here. However, I do not think it would be *good* for pets due to the high sugar content which their systems are not designed to process, so I would recommend it be avoided in pets for this reason and just in case of ill-effects which have not yet been reported.

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 03:56 PM
firebird

Thank you so much!

I think that I did not find too much online about honey, because it is not generally harmful to pets but as you say - it is not advisable for pets in quantity.

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 03:58 PM
squiggflop

How is the condition of your hair since you clarified?

Is most of the residue gone?

squiggyflop
June 26th, 2008, 04:06 PM
squiggflop

How is the condition of your hair since you clarified?

Is most of the residue gone?
no its the same.. :(

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 04:14 PM
squiggyflop

This is interestig, IMO.

I can only think of 2 possibilities, since it is a coating.

1. The honey residue needs more shampooing over the next little while - I would not use a clarifying shampoo - just regular shampoo.

2. You possibly used something different this time, before or after your honey lightening treatment that is leaving the coating.

Something is causing this.

If it is not honey residue - I do not know what it might be. Ground cinnamon has not been reported to leave a coating.

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 04:24 PM
squiggyflop

The only thing I can suggest at this point, is to go over your honey lightening recipes, your shampoo and watever else you used, each of the 3 times you did a treatment.

The first treatment you used conditioner in your recipe.

These last 2 times water.

What did you use to wash, condition?

I do not need to know the product names.

You just need to know for yourself, any differences in the routine and what you did and did not use each time.

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 04:39 PM
squiggy

Please keep me updated on how your hair is doing.

At least you know that it is a coating, not hydrogen peroxide damage.

squiggyflop
June 26th, 2008, 04:49 PM
im happy to know its a coating.. i used the exact same shampoo and conditioner for the water based recipes.. i didnt do anything different.. maybe its because i did the treatments all in a row.. i dont know.. i might do annother one when i can get some distilled water.. its ridiculus that our supermarket carrys so little and doesnt keep it well stocked.. i dont think dad is going to buy me any today seeing as how i woke him up at 5am to tell him about the mushroom growing from the ceiling..

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 05:04 PM
squiggyflop

I am happy for you too.

You had me going there for a bit with the mushy description.

I was confused - that decription has never been used before following honey lightening.

So, your hair is not damaged.

That is great news and consistent with all other reports following honey lightening.

Now, if you can only figure out what the coating is.

If it is just honey residue - it will wash out on its own.

I suggest trying a different shampoo.

Then a different conditioner - a cheap, lighter one perhaps.

squiggyflop
June 26th, 2008, 05:16 PM
the mushyness is scary but maybe its just from the residue.. looking under the microscope it didnt look like residue but but maybe honey residue looks different than other residues.. i just got a little alarmed when i saw the jagged edges on my hairs.. maybe it will go away during my next wash.. whats more weird is that my hair had no medulla on any of my samples.. not even a thin one..

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 05:25 PM
the mushyness is scary but maybe its juts from the residue.. looking under the microscope it didnt look like residue but but maybe honey residue looks different than other residues.. i just got a little alarmed when i saw the jagged edges on my hairs.. maybe it will go away during my next wash.. whats more weird is that my hair had no medulla on any of my samples.. not even a thin one..

squiggy

I have no idea what honey residue looks like under a microscope.

As to the medulla, I have no answer for that either.

There are people who have used honey and conditioner on these boards for years, for conditioning, with great results.

And there are people in the Honey threads, especially with the old dilutions, who practically lived with a honey lightening treatment on their hair every day - with no damage reported.

When you can - try a different honey - a cheap one - the Successful Honeys List is in my signature now, in the recommendations post - see #1.

squiggyflop
June 26th, 2008, 05:36 PM
squiggy

I have no idea what honey residue looks like under a microscope.

As to the medulla, I have no answer for that either.

There are people who have used honey and conditioner on these boards for years, for conditioning, with great results.

And there are people in the Honey threads, especially with the old dilutions, who practically lived with a honey lightening treatment on their hair every day - with no damage reported.

When you can - try a different honey - a cheap one - the Successful Honeys List is in my signature now, in the recommendations post - see #1.
hmm bear shaped bottle from walmart.. im not sure if dad would be willing to buy more honey when we have 3 bottle (stop and shop brand clover) 2 of the bottles are crystalized from sitting there.. i didnt know if those were usable since they have to be heated up to get it out of the bottle..

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 05:38 PM
squiggy

Please define what mushiness means to you.

You can see that there is a coating under your microscope.

And you said that your hair is tangling - consistent with a coating.

The descriptions of what a honey residue result is typically are; dry hair, dry ends, crunchy ends and fried ends.

Mushy is new to me.

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 05:58 PM
squiggy

No, I would not heat up the honey to use it.

I realize money can be an issue.

Just do the best you can.

The cheaper honeys work just as well as the expensive ones, based on reports.

squiggyflop
June 26th, 2008, 06:01 PM
squiggy

Please define what mushiness means to you.

You can see that there is a coating under your microscope.

And you said that your hair is tangling - consistent with a coating.

The descriptions of what a honey residue result is typically are; dry hair, dry ends, crunchy ends and fried ends.

Mushy is new to me.
my hair isnt dry and the ends arent crunchy.. i couldnt actually regognise a coating under the microscope just jagged edges (which might very well be what both damage and honey residue look like)

mushy.. how to discribe hmmmm.. um washing hair that feels like a mixture of soft bread dough and pudding and a sponge.. (probably not the best discription) it used to feel like that every time i washed my hair when it was bleached.. its a very alarming feeling because i instantly recognised it as what my hair felt like when wet at its most damaged state..

Alley Cat
June 26th, 2008, 06:28 PM
I have a couple of pictures I wanted to take some before the jarrah arrives to see what difference it makes. As I have said earlier I don't have any before I started the first treatments and after my colouring mishap when my hair was almost black. Shame really but there you go. :rolleyes:

I think the first is after 2 or 3 treatments , some red is coming back into my hair. I lost the red highlights after my colour.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1220/hairjune2008rh8.jpg

The 2nd I believe is after 9 and was taken yesterday. It was a windy day. Both were taken on overcast days. My hair can look different colours depending on the weather. But I believe they were similar days. :)


http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/4038/hairjune2008012wp5.jpg

I think it is lightening . :)

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 06:37 PM
squiggy

Did you ever look at your damagd hair at the time under a microscope?

Was there a difference?

It sounds as if it could be - I can only speculate - a mix of something from the conditoner/shampoo and the honey.

I can understand why you would be alarmed.

Please continue to update on the condition of your hair.

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 06:53 PM
I have a couple of pictures I wanted to take some before the jarrah arrives to see what difference it makes. As I have said earlier I don't have any before I started the first treatments and after my colouring mishap when my hair was almost black. Shame really but there you go. :rolleyes:

I think the first is after 2 or 3 treatments , some red is coming back into my hair. I lost the red highlights after my colour.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1220/hairjune2008rh8.jpg

The 2nd I believe is after 9 and was taken yesterday. It was a windy day. Both were taken on overcast days. My hair can look different colours depending on the weather. But I believe they were similar days. :)


http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/4038/hairjune2008012wp5.jpg

I think it is lightening . :)

Alley Cat

WOW!

That's lightening. You have spectacular hair!

9 treatments and some were before the corrected dilution - very impressive.

How is the condition of your hair, after 9 honey lightening treatments, compared to its condition prehoney lightening?

Alley Cat
June 26th, 2008, 10:02 PM
Alley Cat

WOW!

That's lightening. You have spectacular hair!

9 treatments and some were before the corrected dilution - very impressive.

How is the condition of your hair, after 9 honey lightening treatments, compared to its condition prehoney lightening?


Thank you ktani. :flower:

The condition of my hair after all honey treatments is the same as before no problems. It always feels nice after a treatment. I usually wash with shampoo and conditioner. I have tried just conditioner but didn't feel my hair was as clean. I once used a shampoo bar which was my old method of washing but for some reason I wasn't happy with that either, can't recall why. So for now it's back to the old shampoo and conditioner without cones after a treatment and my hair is happy and feels nice after a treatment. :)

mommy2one05
June 26th, 2008, 10:05 PM
so how frequently do you recommend to do a lightening treatment ?

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 10:35 PM
Alley Cat

Thank you.

It is good to know that after so many treatments, the condition of of your hair is problem free.

That is consistent with other reports of results following multiple honey lightening treatments.

It is interesting IMO, why some things work better than others for people.

Shampoo can remove residue from the honey, while a shampoo bar may not.

Shampoo bars can leave their own residue.

mommy2one05
June 26th, 2008, 10:43 PM
I did a treatment this morning. My recipe was : 1 1/2 cups water, 1/4 cup honey, 1 Tbs. cinnamon, 1 Tbs. coconut oil I put this on my clean wet hair and then put it in a shower cap with a towel over it. I left it on for one hour and fifteen minutes ( the extra 15 only cause the baby was fussin when I should have been rinsing :) ) . The cinnamon was VERY hard to get out of my hair. I left my wet hair loose for awhile while I went to town and it was so funny cause my dad said wow your hair really looks lighter (he did not know) and my mom started laughing and asked so did you try it. I forgot to take a pic but I will next time. But I don't know how frequently to do these until I get the color I want achieved.

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 10:54 PM
An article on why honey crystallizes.
http://scienceline.org/2007/04/09/ask-westly-crystallizedhoney/

ktani
June 26th, 2008, 11:00 PM
I did a treatment this morning. My recipe was : 1 1/2 cups water, 1/4 cup honey, 1 Tbs. cinnamon, 1 Tbs. coconut oil I put this on my clean wet hair and then put it in a shower cap with a towel over it. I left it on for one hour and fifteen minutes ( the extra 15 only cause the baby was fussin when I should have been rinsing :) ) . The cinnamon was VERY hard to get out of my hair. I left my wet hair loose for awhile while I went to town and it was so funny cause my dad said wow your hair really looks lighter (he did not know) and my mom started laughing and asked so did you try it. I forgot to take a pic but I will next time. But I don't know how frequently to do these until I get the color I want achieved.

mommy2one05

Thank you for posting your recipe and method.

Your recipe is right on the mark for the 4 to 1 dilution.

Your method sounds perfect too.

Did you try distilled water?

Yes, cinnamon can be difficult to wash out of the hair.

You could patch test and try ground cardamom.

I recommend McCormick ground cardamom. It has been reported to work well and is less expensive than other brands.

It has also been reported to wash out of the hair easier than cinnamon.

You can honey lighten as often as you wish, IMO.

I look forward to your pictures.

Alley Cat
June 27th, 2008, 03:21 AM
Alley Cat

Thank you.

It is good to know that after so many treatments, the condition of of your hair is problem free.

That is consistent with other reports of results following multiple honey lightening treatments.

It is interesting IMO, why some things work better than others for people.

Shampoo can remove residue from the honey, while a shampoo bar may not.

Shampoo bars can leave their own residue.

Your welcome. :)

Yes it is interesting but I guess everyone has to use what works for them.

Alley Cat
June 27th, 2008, 03:24 AM
so how frequently do you recommend to do a lightening treatment ?
I am doing mine most times I wash my hair so generally twice a week or sometimes more. On odd occasions I haven't felt like doing it so I washed it without doing one. But I have also done it 2 days in a row. :)

ktani
June 27th, 2008, 07:46 AM
Alley Cat

I have added your pictures to the Pictures Post.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=133707&postcount=1095

Zenity
June 27th, 2008, 09:14 AM
Zenity

Thank you for your feedback.

What is your starting colour?

What exactly are you trying to do with the honey?

Chamomile tea has been reported to add a golden tone to hair.

Cinnamon - unboiled - has not been reported to add any colour of its own with honey lightening.


If you want to try to lighten your hair with honey and cinnamon - I suggest the following.

1. Use ground cinnamon.

2. Do not boil the ground cinnamon.

3. Do not apply any heat to the honey, ground cinnamon or oil.

4. If you do not want to add any colour - just use room temperature distilled water, no chamomile - then add honey - then ground cinnamon and oil.

You could also patch test and then try ground cardamom.

Do not apply any heat to ground cardamom either if you try it.

Your recipe proportion - 100 ml water to 25 ml honey - is fine.

Ktani


What I would like to do is actually give my hair some highlights or reflections avoiding any redness.
My base color is pretty dark not black but dark brown, I use to dye my roots with a very light perioxide stuff (wella colour touch, using 4% perioxide).
That said, I have to watch out about any type of product touching my hair if I want to avoid the red showing up.
Adding chamomille to my mix was to test colour.
My first 2 sessions with only honey and water highlighted my middles and ends giving a lighter color to some old ashy highlights remaining but I notice it gave my dark colour a tint of red that I did not like that much.
Any suggestion?
I can't post pics... The system does not allow me, neither to check any user's profile....:confused:. Says that I do not have permission...

I will try again later

BTW, thanks for your suggestions.:p

ktani
June 27th, 2008, 09:23 AM
Ktani


What I would like to do is actually give my hair some highlights or reflections avoiding any redness.
My base color is pretty dark not black but dark brown, I use to dye my roots with a very light perioxide stuff (wella colour touch, using 4% perioxide).
That said, I have to watch out about any type of product touching my hair if I want to avoid the red showing up.
Adding chamomille to my mix was to test colour.
My first 2 sessions with only honey and water highlighted my middles and ends giving a lighter color to some old ashy highlights remaining but I notice it gave my dark colour a tint of red that I did not like that much.
Any suggestion?
I can't post pics... The system does not allow me, neither to check any user's profile....:confused:. Says that I do not have permission...

I will try again later

BTW, thanks for your suggestions.:p

Zenity

When you lighten most dark coloured hair, red is one of the stages it naturally goes through.

It goes like this, darkest hair to - brown - red - gold - blonde, with variations of course, depending on the starting colour.

You cannot avoid the red stage unless you use something very strong at one time, like bleach.

ktani
June 27th, 2008, 10:25 AM
Pictures of build-up on hair as seen with an electron microscope.
http://www.pg.com/science/haircare/hair_twh_98.htm