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ktani
March 3rd, 2010, 08:48 AM
Post on discussion of pH and honey lightening, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=274753&postcount=2243

Marjolein
March 3rd, 2010, 11:09 AM
Thanks you guys, I'll try my local pet store for some PH- strips. Haven't had the time yet :o, but will test soon!!

Danish
March 16th, 2010, 04:54 PM
Hello :)

I simply couldn't make myself read all of the 426 pages, so if I'm repeating - Sorry.

I was just wondering - if I applied the mix, left it in for an hour, then made a new mix and left that one in for an hour - etc., wouldn't that be quite effective?
I try not to wash my hair more then max. twice a week, but I'm getting a bit desperate to get rid of a way too dark color...

ktani
March 16th, 2010, 06:47 PM
Hello :)

I simply couldn't make myself read all of the 426 pages, so if I'm repeating - Sorry.

I was just wondering - if I applied the mix, left it in for an hour, then made a new mix and left that one in for an hour - etc., wouldn't that be quite effective?
I try not to wash my hair more then max. twice a week, but I'm getting a bit desperate to get rid of a way too dark color...

You can do that if you wish, no problem. As for the pages, you just need the first post to guide you. It was set up to be the fastest way to get information and I always reply to questions to help if I can.

BelleBot
March 16th, 2010, 07:24 PM
I'm just wondering what's the best way of washing a honey treatment out? I've done 2 so far, and they have brightened up my hair a little despite being done with tap water. However each time I've had to wash my hair 2 or 3 times to get the honey out. CO washing and even using my sulphate free shampoo doesn't seem to cut it as I'm left with hair that won't dry and feels oily/sticky.

My recipe is honey, water, cinnamon and a touch of EVOO.

ktani
March 16th, 2010, 07:51 PM
I'm just wondering what's the best way of washing a honey treatment out? I've done 2 so far, and they have brightened up my hair a little despite being done with tap water. However each time I've had to wash my hair 2 or 3 times to get the honey out. CO washing and even using my sulphate free shampoo doesn't seem to cut it as I'm left with hair that won't dry and feels oily/sticky.

My recipe is honey, water, cinnamon and a touch of EVOO.

How much water and oil are you using? Honey residue is reported to be best removed with shampoo but if your hair is sticky then you may just need more rinsing, followed with a light vinegar rinse. You should not need more than 1 tablespoon of evoo and you can use less. The new dilution is 1 tablespoon honey to 6 tablespoons water, 2 to 12 etc.

ktani
March 25th, 2010, 05:13 PM
I was pmed about chestnut honey and distilled water.

Chestnut honey is high in iron, http://www.consumerbuyguide.com/guides/food_beverage/honey.html

Certain minerals like iron, manganese and nickel, and Vitamin C can deplete natural peroxide levels.

Minerals, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=146265&postcount=1173

As for distilled water, which has the ideal pH for honey lightening of 7 (most honeys are very acidic and the ideal pH for a honey to produce peroxide is 6) and no mineral content, distilled water is the water honey is diluted with for testing its peroxide level in science experiments, and in food testing labs, to give a true reading of the peroxide level produced, and it is not heated. Heat (other than body heat) can also negatively affect natural peroxide levels.

Annitta
March 27th, 2010, 06:19 AM
Honey faded my medium brown dye a lot, which i wanted, but didnt notice much on my light brown roots. The hair turned out a bit orangey on the lenght. Just sharing my experience. :p

ktani
March 27th, 2010, 09:14 AM
Honey faded my medium brown dye a lot, which i wanted, but didnt notice much on my light brown roots. The hair turned out a bit orangey on the lenght. Just sharing my experience. :p

Thank you for the report! It can take more than one treatment to get desired results, if you want to lighten your roots.

You can lighten past the orangey stage too. That is not unusual, as colour naturally lightens approximately from black to brown to red to orange to gold to blonde, depending on the ratio of pigment in the hair. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=291820&postcount=2342

Annitta
March 27th, 2010, 09:37 AM
Thank you for the report! It can take more than one treatment to get desired results, if you want to lighten your roots.

You can lighten past the orangey stage too. That is not unusual, as colour naturally lightens approximately from black to brown to red to orange to gold to blonde, depending on the ratio of pigment in the hair. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=291820&postcount=2342

Thank you for the article reference, Ktani. I don't want to make it any lighter, i want to grow out my own color, so i dyed a similar color, since my hair is short, will be quick.
Just wanted to comment how faster it was to lighten dyed hair, i did this quite a while ago, after reading this own thread.
I've used honey to lighten twice in the past months, very satisfactory, since i only wanted a lighter base without using bleach.
When i get some greys i might want to turn blonde. There is just so many good uses for honey.

ktani
March 27th, 2010, 10:10 AM
Thank you for the article reference, Ktani. I don't want to make it any lighter, i want to grow out my own color, so i dyed a similar color, since my hair is short, will be quick.
Just wanted to comment how faster it was to lighten dyed hair, i did this quite a while ago, after reading this own thread.
I've used honey to lighten twice in the past months, very satisfactory, since i only wanted a lighter base without using bleach.
When i get some greys i might want to turn blonde. There is just so many good uses for honey.

Thank you for taking the time to report and clarifying what you were trying to achieve. I am very glad to read that the thread was helpful for you.

BelleBot
March 30th, 2010, 08:42 AM
I did my 3rd or 4th honey treatment last night, lost count already! My hair seems significantly brighter now, especially underneath where there wasn't as much dye from the chocolate semi I used. Might need a couple of more applications to lighten the top layers which are the darkest from the "semi that won't budge". But overall I'm very happy with honey lightening.

My only problem is that after a while with the mixture on my head (new dilution plus a little bit of cinnamon and evoo) it starts to smell almost like amonia. Which is a bit ick. Plus the stuff is a nightmare to wash out, after using fairy liquid, johnson's baby shampoo and copious amounts of cone free conditoner my hair is still a little bit gunky from honey residue.:(

ktani
March 30th, 2010, 09:08 AM
I did my 3rd or 4th honey treatment last night, lost count already! My hair seems significantly brighter now, especially underneath where there wasn't as much dye from the chocolate semi I used. Might need a couple of more applications to lighten the top layers which are the darkest from the "semi that won't budge". But overall I'm very happy with honey lightening.

My only problem is that after a while with the mixture on my head (new dilution plus a little bit of cinnamon and evoo) it starts to smell almost like amonia. Which is a bit ick. Plus the stuff is a nightmare to wash out, after using fairy liquid, johnson's baby shampoo and copious amounts of cone free conditoner my hair is still a little bit gunky from honey residue.:(

Odd about the smell. No ammonia happening in the mix. Glad to read that you are still happy with your results and making progress. Some honeys leave more residue behind than others. There is no way to predict that.

BattahZ
April 2nd, 2010, 12:59 PM
Hi all,

I've tried to read through this thread but it's incredibly long - what I read was very informative, but I didn't find an answer to my question. I'm growing out hair that was dyed black. A lot of the black has been cut off, and my hair stylist has given me highlights twice to try to lighten it up. But a lot of black streaks remain, as well as a lot of red from a previous reddish-black dye. My natural color is a light ash brown and I probably have about 2-3 inches of roots now.

If I were to use honey to try to lighten it up, will I need to only apply to the darker areas? Does honey lighten dyed hair more or less effectively than virgin hair? My goal is to stop coloring my hair completely, so right now I'm trying to blend it all together so my ends aren't quite so dark compared to the rest of my hair.

Thanks!

ktani
April 2nd, 2010, 02:05 PM
Hi all,

I've tried to read through this thread but it's incredibly long - what I read was very informative, but I didn't find an answer to my question. I'm growing out hair that was dyed black. A lot of the black has been cut off, and my hair stylist has given me highlights twice to try to lighten it up. But a lot of black streaks remain, as well as a lot of red from a previous reddish-black dye. My natural color is a light ash brown and I probably have about 2-3 inches of roots now.

If I were to use honey to try to lighten it up, will I need to only apply to the darker areas? Does honey lighten dyed hair more or less effectively than virgin hair? My goal is to stop coloring my hair completely, so right now I'm trying to blend it all together so my ends aren't quite so dark compared to the rest of my hair.

Thanks!

Welcome to LHC and the Honey thread!

I set up the first post as a guide to help those like you coming to the thread for the first time, from being overwhelmed.

Below are some results and recipes on dyed hair, dark dyed hair in particular. Honey lightening can lighten any kind of hair. The results vary with the hair, meaning what is on it, its condition, what dye was used, what honey and water used, etc. There is no simple, exact answer to that question.

Here are some links.
The first post
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1661&postcount=1

Honey lightening on dark dyed hair - including pictures
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=457007&postcount=3341

You may find these results particularly helpful.
ljkforu - on previously black dyed ends, hennaed hair, with tap water, ground cinnamon and ground cardamom, and the condition of her hair.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=455932&postcount=3335

ljkforu - more information on her honey lightening recipe
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=433208&postcount=3270

ljkforu - feedback from those around her, in real life
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=437566&postcount=3282

Kristin
April 2nd, 2010, 03:47 PM
ktani- This thread is extremely long, so I haven't read all of it. I have read through basic instructions, recipes, and results regarding honey lightening, but I do have a few questions...

My hair has been colored innumerable times! My natural color is medium-dark brown. It tends to go red with sun or color. Most of the dye is semi-permanent and is dark brown or soft black. (I was mainly trying to cover a few grays before "discovering" henna and indigo.) I had the black dye removed (peroxide) professionally a year ago, though I did not go much lighter because I was trying to avoid damage. I recently used henndigo twice. This last time the difference between how it "took" on dyed vs. virgin hair (roots) was very noticeable to me.

How many applications do you think I will need to correct my color? Will it work at all? Can you recommend a recipe? There are pics of my dyed hair in my albums. It looks quite black but it is lighter IRL.

I am tempted to start now with tap water, but I'll try and restrain myself. :D Thank you!

ktani
April 2nd, 2010, 04:31 PM
ktani- This thread is extremely long, so I haven't read all of it. I have read through basic instructions, recipes, and results regarding honey lightening, but I do have a few questions...

My hair has been colored innumerable times! My natural color is medium-dark brown. It tends to go red with sun or color. Most of the dye is semi-permanent and is dark brown or soft black. (I was mainly trying to cover a few grays before "discovering" henna and indigo.) I had the black dye removed (peroxide) professionally a year ago, though I did not go much lighter because I was trying to avoid damage. I recently used henndigo twice. This last time the difference between how it "took" on dyed vs. virgin hair (roots) was very noticeable to me.

How many applications do you think I will need to correct my color? Will it work at all? Can you recommend a recipe? There are pics of my dyed hair in my albums. It looks quite black but it is lighter IRL.

I am tempted to start now with tap water, but I'll try and restrain myself. :D Thank you!

You do not need to read the whole thread or even half of it. The whole thread is a journey. The first post has the information from the end of the journey, as it is now in terms of information. I update the first post. That is why I keep the date current.

Honey lightening has and can lighten both henna and henndigo but no one can predict how it can work on your hair in terms of predicting how much lightening you can achieve or how many applications it may take to achieve results you want.

So much depends on the honey, water, recipe and method. 2 step henndigo can be very hard to lighten but is has been done.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=654115&postcount=3919

ACWN
April 2nd, 2010, 05:54 PM
Hey ktani, LONG time no write!

Got a question for you. Is it possible to gel the honey lightening mixture? Like doing a corn starch gel, letting it cool then adding the ready to go honey lightening mix?

Would that kill the peroxide at all?

Cause I wanna do just my roots, but the stuff is such a mess.. I know I can adjust the honey to water ratio and apply to damp hair, but I was just curious if gelling the mix was possible. Thanks!

ktani
April 2nd, 2010, 06:13 PM
Hey ktani, LONG time no write!

Got a question for you. Is it possible to gel the honey lightening mixture? Like doing a corn starch gel, letting it cool then adding the ready to go honey lightening mix?

Would that kill the peroxide at all?

Cause I wanna do just my roots, but the stuff is such a mess.. I know I can adjust the honey to water ratio and apply to damp hair, but I was just curious if gelling the mix was possible. Thanks!

Always good to hear from you. It is an old question but a good one. I did research it and in my opinion, gelling a honey lightening mix is not a good idea. I think it would deplete whatever peroxide is produced.
From the first post, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=280629&postcount=2277

Suggestions for doing roots, from the first post, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=296249&postcount=2371

I will always still reply to questions though.

ACWN
April 2nd, 2010, 06:15 PM
Shoot. Kay, thanks!

ktani
April 2nd, 2010, 06:20 PM
Shoot. Kay, thanks!

You are most welcome!

BattahZ
April 2nd, 2010, 10:04 PM
Thanks so much for the info, ktani, I appreciate it! I think at this point I'll try the colorfix I got to see if it'll remove any of the remaining dye, then I'll gradually use honey on my ends to see if I can lighten a bit. It seems fairly simple to use it, so I'll incorporate it into my weekly deep treatments and see if I can lighten a bit over time. My curls help blend the color discrepancy between my ends and my roots, but lightening up those ends somehow would be great.

Thanks!

ktani
April 2nd, 2010, 10:17 PM
Thanks so much for the info, ktani, I appreciate it! I think at this point I'll try the colorfix I got to see if it'll remove any of the remaining dye, then I'll gradually use honey on my ends to see if I can lighten a bit. It seems fairly simple to use it, so I'll incorporate it into my weekly deep treatments and see if I can lighten a bit over time. My curls help blend the color discrepancy between my ends and my roots, but lightening up those ends somehow would be great.

Thanks!

You are most welcome! Good luck. Everything you need to know is in the first post and depending on where you are you may want to try Naturally Preferred Fireweed Honey from Kroger's Grocery. It has been reported to be excellent for honey lightening. I would aso use distilled water and perhaps one of the boosters.

BattahZ
April 3rd, 2010, 06:13 PM
Thanks! I have tons of cardamom at home, so I think I'll try that for my first go. You're the greatest!

ktani
April 3rd, 2010, 06:18 PM
Thanks! I have tons of cardamom at home, so I think I'll try that for my first go. You're the greatest!

You are most welcome! Patch test the cardamom though. It has not been reported to be as frequently irritating as cinnamon but it has caused a problen for 1 or 2 people who did report.

BattahZ
April 3rd, 2010, 07:22 PM
The cardamom is just a peroxide booster, right? It doesn't affect the color? I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to kind of ash down my color, whether it be in a honey treatment or just as some kind of rinse. My hair has been brassy lately and I'm not loving it.

ktani
April 3rd, 2010, 07:36 PM
The cardamom is just a peroxide booster, right? It doesn't affect the color? I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to kind of ash down my color, whether it be in a honey treatment or just as some kind of rinse. My hair has been brassy lately and I'm not loving it.

None of the current, new dilution recipes or ingredients, including cardamom and honey, affect hair colour, other than the fact that they can lighten it.

Previous honey lightening recipes included chamomile tea, tomato concentrate and hybiscus tea, all of which can stain hair.

Brassiness has been reported to be helped by honey lightening, by lightening the colour and more, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=13332 .

BattahZ
April 3rd, 2010, 08:03 PM
I'm sending you a mental hug, ktani :) Thanks again!

ktani
April 4th, 2010, 06:38 AM
I'm sending you a mental hug, ktani :) Thanks again!

You are most welcome!

There is also this link, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=294952&postcount=2364, from the first post. A number of things used in between honey lightening or just on their own, can affect hair colour, like apple cider vinegar that yields a reddish, gold tone to hair.

Any dark coloured oil, used straight as a treatment (as opposed to the booster oils in a honey lightening recipe used in relatively small amounts) can affect hair colour. I have also read online that straight honey can stain material. That makes sense to me. Only honey diluted with a liquid that contains water generates peroxide, if that type of honey will generate enough peroxide to make a difference for its intended use. Some honeys do not generate much peroxide for a number of reasons, including their own constituents, like natural Vitamin C.

The booster oils in a honey lightening recipe have not been reported to be a problem by staining hair. Using too much of one or the other (extra virgin olive oil or coconut oil), can make hair greasy. CO'ing out a honey lightening treatment with too much oil in it has been reported to be successful. CO'ing out an oil treatment of straight oil on the hair has also been reported to be successful.

Ash toned hair is particularly susceptible to added colours that can warm it up. Being aware of the things that can affect it helps.

The subject of adding salt to a honey lightening recipe has come up in conjuction with an article stating that used in wounds, the natural salt produced by body fluids helps the peroxide generation of honey, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=676594&postcount=3968, and was later discussed here, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=715785&postcount=4061. While I do not think it is necessary to add to a recipe (distilled water actually contains some salt unless it is stated to be sodium free), adding a "pinch" of salt to a honey lightening recipe cannot hurt in my opinion. I would not add more than that. Body fluid salt levels are not high, http://www.ehow.com/how_5009675_calculate-milliequivalent.html.

ACWN
April 5th, 2010, 05:05 PM
Ktani - I have two things of honey, one of them is on the successful honey list and one is one I grabbed from Sam's. Mrs Crockett's Honey. All it says is that its wild flower honey.

Both bottles are crystalizing (its been kinda fun eating the crystals, to tell the truth, lol) and they're kinda old - at least a year. The Mrs. Crockett honey was sealed up until a couple days ago.

Are they too old? Can I do anything about the crystals with out heating up the honey? I know heating it up will kill the honey's ability to make peroxide. Can I use the crystalized honey itself?

I've used both recently (Crockett honey yesterday, the succesful list honey today) and neither seem to have lightened my hair. I'm using distilled water and letting it sit an hour before I put it in my hair for an hour, but I keep forgetting to wet my hair then towel dry it before I put it in (I'm using the less drips version), is this causing the problem? Or is it because the honey is so old?

I'm getting kinda frusterated over here... T_T

ktani
April 5th, 2010, 08:37 PM
Ktani - I have two things of honey, one of them is on the successful honey list and one is one I grabbed from Sam's. Mrs Crockett's Honey. All it says is that its wild flower honey.

Both bottles are crystalizing (its been kinda fun eating the crystals, to tell the truth, lol) and they're kinda old - at least a year. The Mrs. Crockett honey was sealed up until a couple days ago.

Are they too old? Can I do anything about the crystals with out heating up the honey? I know heating it up will kill the honey's ability to make peroxide. Can I use the crystalized honey itself?

I've used both recently (Crockett honey yesterday, the succesful list honey today) and neither seem to have lightened my hair. I'm using distilled water and letting it sit an hour before I put it in my hair for an hour, but I keep forgetting to wet my hair then towel dry it before I put it in (I'm using the less drips version), is this causing the problem? Or is it because the honey is so old?

I'm getting kinda frusterated over here... T_T

A bit of warm not hot water may dissolve the crystals. Hard to say about whether the honey is ok but honey generally has a long shelf life. Here is more on the problem, http://www.scienceline.org/2007/04/09/ask-westly-crystallizedhoney/

Re your method, the hair you want to lighten needs to be very wet and kept that way during the treatment. If it starts to dry, the peroxide activity stops as it does so.

ACWN
April 5th, 2010, 08:40 PM
My hair started out dry, but I soaked it clear to the roots and it stayed wet - I threw on a shower cap. I guess not wet enough though. My hair is really short now (shorter than my avatar shows) and it dries REALLY quickly...

ktani
April 5th, 2010, 08:46 PM
My hair started out dry, but I soaked it clear to the roots and it stayed wet - I threw on a shower cap. I guess not wet enough though. My hair is really short now (shorter than my avatar shows) and it dries REALLY quickly...

One of the best methods suggested and reported to work well to keep hair wet is saran or cling wrap covered with a swim cap. Try that before you give up on your honey. I would.

Also add a booster. Evoo, pure not mixed with olive oil, can have double the peroxide value of coconut oil. 1/2 to 1 tablespoon max to cut down on greasiness. Cinnamon or cardamom (ground) but patch test first. Everyone has different sensitivity limits.

ACWN
April 6th, 2010, 10:30 AM
I cant wrap my head in cling wrap... besides not having any in the house, being broke and not being coordinated enough to properly wrap my head with it, I'm worried the pressure will give me a headache - I get chronic migraines and too much pressure on my head will cause one, usually a really bad, takes a week to go away one. I tried wearing a swim cap once as a kid and it just HURT. With my head the way it is now, theres no way I can use a swim cap, unfortunately.

I'll see if I can talk my fiancee into getting me a bottle of EVOO this pay check or the next... we had one, but it went bad and I found that out the hard way. *shudder* I can use the EVOO for my ferrets too... ear cleaner!


I wont give up on the honey just yet... I'll see if I can find another way to keep it wet that wont cause a headache.

lesbia
April 6th, 2010, 11:03 AM
I LOVE this thread!!! Every time I read this I found new interesting informations! thank you so much!!

KittenHead
April 6th, 2010, 12:21 PM
Hi, I'm new here and have been lurking and reading a lot of post here. I have henndigoed hair that I foolishly tried to lighten myself with box stuff. When I looked stuff up I only looked up the henna part and it seemed like it would be ok to try and lighten. I didn't take into account the indigo. Well, my hair tuned green. I went to a salon to try and have them fix it, they tried to bleach a few highlights and they turned BRIGHT blue so they ended up just going over it all was a dark reddish color to counteract the green and blue.

I would really love to lighten it up and I'm wondering if a honey recipe would work? Since it's henndigoed, bleached and chemical treated on top of all that would it work? I'm afraid since I know I have blue and green just hiding under the chemical color that if I try and lighten it even just with honey it will only make it green again.

Anyways, thanks again so much for any advice. I love this forum.

ACWN
April 6th, 2010, 12:24 PM
I wouldnt risk it. Honey lightening is great for hennigo-ed hair because its so gradual that theres very little risk of going green - however, since your hair is already green (and blue), I wouldnt chance it.

I'm honestly surprised they were able to even cover the blue and green. You got very lucky, usually you cant cover it.

KittenHead
April 6th, 2010, 12:34 PM
Thanks for the quick reply ACWN. That's what I was afraid I'd hear :( I should just leave well enough alone but I think the reason I want to mess with it still is because I don't think they did get it 100% covered. In some lighting I still think I can see some green and blue and I wonder if when I'm out in sunlight if it's really obvious. I don't have the kind of money to keep going back and having it covered every time it starts to fade a little.

The only person I have around to ask is my husband and he's a brick when it comes to hair stuff, he says he never even saw the green before it was covered and it was very obvious then.

ACWN
April 6th, 2010, 12:38 PM
The only person I have around to ask is my husband and he's a brick when it comes to hair stuff, he says he never even saw the green before it was covered and it was very obvious then.

Yeah, I know that feeling.:rolleyes:

I wish I could offer something, but the only thing I can think of is applying straight henna over. It wont entirely cover it, but it might balance out the color at the very least until you can trim all the green stuff off. Strand test though.

ktani
April 6th, 2010, 06:05 PM
I cant wrap my head in cling wrap... besides not having any in the house, being broke and not being coordinated enough to properly wrap my head with it, I'm worried the pressure will give me a headache - I get chronic migraines and too much pressure on my head will cause one, usually a really bad, takes a week to go away one. I tried wearing a swim cap once as a kid and it just HURT. With my head the way it is now, theres no way I can use a swim cap, unfortunately.

I'll see if I can talk my fiancee into getting me a bottle of EVOO this pay check or the next... we had one, but it went bad and I found that out the hard way. *shudder* I can use the EVOO for my ferrets too... ear cleaner!


I wont give up on the honey just yet... I'll see if I can find another way to keep it wet that wont cause a headache.

There is another way reported to work but it is more work intensive, although others have done it with no problem and it should solve your pressure problem. Keep some of the treatment back (make a larger batch), in a spray bottle and mist the roots constantly over an hour. Wear a towel around your neck. That should do it.

ACWN
April 6th, 2010, 06:07 PM
Hmm... I'll keep that in mind. Thanks :)

ktani
April 6th, 2010, 06:07 PM
Hi, I'm new here and have been lurking and reading a lot of post here. I have henndigoed hair that I foolishly tried to lighten myself with box stuff. When I looked stuff up I only looked up the henna part and it seemed like it would be ok to try and lighten. I didn't take into account the indigo. Well, my hair tuned green. I went to a salon to try and have them fix it, they tried to bleach a few highlights and they turned BRIGHT blue so they ended up just going over it all was a dark reddish color to counteract the green and blue.

I would really love to lighten it up and I'm wondering if a honey recipe would work? Since it's henndigoed, bleached and chemical treated on top of all that would it work? I'm afraid since I know I have blue and green just hiding under the chemical color that if I try and lighten it even just with honey it will only make it green again.

Anyways, thanks again so much for any advice. I love this forum.

Honey lightening henndigoed hair has never had reported green as a result. That said I make no guarantees. I suggest patch testing an area.

ktani
April 6th, 2010, 06:08 PM
I LOVE this thread!!! Every time I read this I found new interesting informations! thank you so much!!

I am so glad that you are so pleased. Thank you so much for commenting!

KittenHead
April 7th, 2010, 12:38 PM
Honey lightening henndigoed hair has never had reported green as a result. That said I make no guarantees. I suggest patch testing an area.

Thanks for the reply. I was just afraid since I already have the green under the chemical treated stuff that it might just lighten the stuff on top and let the green and blue shine through. I was hoping someone might have seen or been through the same thing and might have some advice.

I tried a strand test but I can never tell with strand tests. I strand tested before i did the stuff that turned it green, so I don't take strand test for much.

Oh well, thanks anyways :)

tokidokichi
April 8th, 2010, 08:56 PM
I just lightened my hair with honey for the fist time!
I have a red chemical color on my head and im trying to get it back to strawberry blonde.

I used 1oz honey, 6oz distilled water, 1tbs olive oil, and 1tbs cinnamon. I put it on dry hair and then soaked it with the solution and used a shower cap.

here are the results
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=5271&pictureid=68873

ktani
April 8th, 2010, 11:23 PM
I just lightened my hair with honey for the fist time!
I have a red chemical color on my head and im trying to get it back to strawberry blonde.

I used 1oz honey, 6oz distilled water, 1tbs olive oil, and 1tbs cinnamon. I put it on dry hair and then soaked it with the solution and used a shower cap.

here are the results
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=5271&pictureid=68873

Thank you so much for the report and pictures. Very nicely done and great results! Great pictures too. How is the condition of your hair? It looks great, shiny and well conditioned. I will add your results to the picture posts when complete. What type and brand of honey did you use please? to add to the Successful Honeys List.

tokidokichi
April 8th, 2010, 11:48 PM
Thank you so much for the report and pictures. Very nicely done and great results! Great pictures too. How is the condition of your hair? It looks great, shiny and well conditioned. I will add your results to the picture posts when complete. What type and brand of honey did you use please? to add to the Successful Honeys List.

I can't tell the differance in the condition of my hair, it's the same as before and the honey did no damage :)) I used Capilano honey, I picked it because I saw it on the sucessful list ^_<

I plan on doing more treatments soon and I will update with more pictures!

ktani
April 8th, 2010, 11:50 PM
I can't tell the differance in the condition of my hair, it's the same as before and the honey did no damage :)) I used Capilano honey, I picked it because I saw it on the sucessful list ^_<

I plan on doing more treatments soon and I will update with more pictures!

Thank you for the fast reply. I will now add both of your posts to the pictures posts. ETA: done! http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=654111&postcount=3918

From the first post of this thread, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096, The Successful Honeys List - honeys reported to work well in honey lightening recipes, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=119128&postcount=856itamin.

Capilano Australian honey, from Kroger

minnie may
April 12th, 2010, 10:40 AM
I still havent found the ideal honey here but i get some very gradual results with aldi's "waldhonig". translated that would be foresthoney, iit's liquid and medium dark.

to save time I came up with a new routine so I can do a dt on the length that is lighter than the top part of my hair at the same time as a honey lightning treatment: click here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=46178)

ktani
April 12th, 2010, 08:48 PM
I still havent found the ideal honey here but i get some very gradual results with aldi's "waldhonig". translated that would be foresthoney, iit's liquid and medium dark.

to save time I came up with a new routine so I can do a dt on the length that is lighter than the top part of my hair at the same time as a honey lightning treatment: click here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=46178)

Sounds great but I would add the conditioning at the very end of the honey lightening mix timing of 1 hour and use distilled not filtered water. That way you can get lightening and conditioning. Filtered water still contains minerals depending on your tap water. Some tap waters are great, others not. It depends on how much lightening you want.

It also depends on how much hibiscus and aloe are in the conditioner as to how they would negatively affect the honey lightening treatment. Both aloe and hybiscus can lower the pH of the treatment (so can most conditioners) and contain Vitamin C which depletes peroxide.

minnie may
April 13th, 2010, 01:23 AM
ktani, I dont quite get the first part of your post, sorry. I put on diluted honey that was left 1 h to develop peroxide first. I let that soak while soaking myself in the tub and put on a diluted honey and condish mix later to cleanse as a CO. I just prepare the honey part for that mix beforehand too, so I have it handy when I'm ready to get out of the tub.

Our Water is not very hard but pretty gunky, thats why I use filtered water and the "miracle water" rinse. Your right that distilled water would probably work better, but my dbf already thinks I'm a nutter as is and we already have a water filter for drinking purposes.

ktani
April 13th, 2010, 05:55 AM
ktani, I dont quite get the first part of your post, sorry. I put on diluted honey that was left 1 h to develop peroxide first. I let that soak while soaking myself in the tub and put on a diluted honey and condish mix later to cleanse as a CO. I just prepare the honey part for that mix beforehand too, so I have it handy when I'm ready to get out of the tub.

Our Water is not very hard but pretty gunky, thats why I use filtered water and the "miracle water" rinse. Your right that distilled water would probably work better, but my dbf already thinks I'm a nutter as is and we already have a water filter for drinking purposes.

I am not sure what you mean about "while you soak in the tub" in terms of time. The minimum recommended time to leave a honey lighting treatment on the hair is 1 hour, even with letting the mix sit for 1 hour to reach its maximum peroxide level or close to it. If you are happy with the gradual lightening that is fine.

minnie may
April 13th, 2010, 07:28 AM
ah ok, now I get it :-)
It really depends on how much time I have, the book I read and how fast the water get's cold ;-) anything from half an hour to one anhalh hours, but it tends to be something between 45 - 60 minutes, thats close enough and gradual lightning is fine with me, since I only want to balance out the age related darkening of natural blonde hair and dont want to get rid of chemical or herbal dye or change my haircolour all over.

ktani
April 13th, 2010, 10:23 AM
ah ok, now I get it :-)
It really depends on how much time I have, the book I read and how fast the water get's cold ;-) anything from half an hour to one anhalh hours, but it tends to be something between 45 - 60 minutes, thats close enough and gradual lightning is fine with me, since I only want to balance out the age related darkening of natural blonde hair and dont want to get rid of chemical or herbal dye or change my haircolour all over.

Ah, now I understand you. What you are doing is perfect for what you want and controllable. Cool!

-simply Venus-
April 19th, 2010, 08:35 PM
I tried this, and I got absolutely no results. D;

ktani
April 19th, 2010, 08:55 PM
I tried this, and I got absolutely no results. D;

Sorry to hear that.
There can be a number of variables as to why that may have happened. Honey lightening can and has been reported to work well. If you like, I can try and troubleshoot with more details of what recipe and method you tried.

-simply Venus-
April 19th, 2010, 09:11 PM
Sorry to hear that.
There can be a number of variables as to why that may have happened. Honey lightening can and has been reported to work well. If you like, I can try and troubleshoot with more details of what recipe and method you tried.
Thanks. =] I tried just the basic water and honey mixture with the proportions exact, let it sit out for an hour, put it in my hair for 5 hours, rinsed it out, let it dry, and there were no results. And the next morning there were ants all over my bathroom!! I thought I cleaned everything up D;

I have naturally dark brown hair that has been bleached, and then dyed dark brown again. The dyed part nor the virgin part growing in changed. =[

restourceful
April 19th, 2010, 09:12 PM
ktani forgive me if this has already been addressed. I am completely gray (and want to stay that way) although my grays look more blond than silver. I'm a former redhead. I want to use the catnip rinse I've read about on your other thread but I don't want the staining (which I know can be avoided with conditioner). Now for my question. If I use the catnip rinse and do honey lightening, how do you think it might affect my color/condition? I'm hoping to be able to give up coney conditioner by using the catnip rinse. TIA!

ktani
April 20th, 2010, 09:11 AM
ktani forgive me if this has already been addressed. I am completely gray (and want to stay that way) although my grays look more blond than silver. I'm a former redhead. I want to use the catnip rinse I've read about on your other thread but I don't want the staining (which I know can be avoided with conditioner). Now for my question. If I use the catnip rinse and do honey lightening, how do you think it might affect my color/condition? I'm hoping to be able to give up coney conditioner by using the catnip rinse. TIA!

Using conditioner and catnip, depending on how it is done can prevent staining. It can also in my experience not give adequate split end protection.

Using a catnip treatment that does stain followed by honey lightening may lighten all the stain enough for you but I do not know for sure. The stain will wash out after a few shampoos if you do not reapply the catnip.

ktani
April 20th, 2010, 09:14 AM
Thanks. =] I tried just the basic water and honey mixture with the proportions exact, let it sit out for an hour, put it in my hair for 5 hours, rinsed it out, let it dry, and there were no results. And the next morning there were ants all over my bathroom!! I thought I cleaned everything up D;

I have naturally dark brown hair that has been bleached, and then dyed dark brown again. The dyed part nor the virgin part growing in changed. =[

What kind of water did you use? Some tap waters can be problematic. Distilled water is recommended has been reported to be more successful than filtered or tap water in most cases. Then there is the honey. Some do not produce very much peroxide. In order for a treatment to be have a chance of being the most successful, the method is important too. The hair must be kept very wet throughout, if the other 2 variables have been accounted for.

restourceful
April 20th, 2010, 06:10 PM
Thanks, ktani. :flower: I'm really looking for a way to quit the coney conditioner, but my hair feels very thin and fragile without it. It does well being coated with something. I guess I'll just stick with it for now and keep researching.

ktani
April 20th, 2010, 06:50 PM
Thanks, ktani. :flower: I'm really looking for a way to quit the coney conditioner, but my hair feels very thin and fragile without it. It does well being coated with something. I guess I'll just stick with it for now and keep researching.

I kjnow how you feel. It surprised me when I was able to just use catnip. It really does allow one to go without conditioner. It just takes a bit of time. I have no tangles, my hair is fuller, no split ends and minimal breakage.

-simply Venus-
April 20th, 2010, 09:23 PM
What kind of water did you use? Some tap waters can be problematic. Distilled water is recommended has been reported to be more successful than filtered or tap water in most cases. Then there is the honey. Some do not produce very much peroxide. In order for a treatment to be have a chance of being the most successful, the method is important too. The hair must be kept very wet throughout, if the other 2 variables have been accounted for.
Hm, okay, thank you! I'll look more into this next time. =]

ktani
April 20th, 2010, 09:58 PM
Hm, okay, thank you! I'll look more into this next time. =]

Here is the detailed link from the first post of this thread, with explanations and further links, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

ladyships
April 22nd, 2010, 03:52 AM
hey, throwing this question out to the collective LHC anonymous:
so i’ve read a thousand times that it takes about an hour for the peroxide levels in the honey|water mixture to mature, but i’m not seeing anything about when—or even just whether—the produced peroxide depletes & there’s no point in keeping the mix on any longer.

does this mix reach a “demise” after a certain number of hours—as henna does—or is it just limited by how long you can manage to keep the hair continually wet from the honey|water mixture?



i ask because [a.k.a., backstory|context]:
i’ve tried this diluted honey recipe before, but with [very, very] old, once-crystallised-&-reheated honey [the Whole Foods one at the end of US list of successful honeys]—left it in for a night, didn’t change a thing. [a few days later, i saw one of my friends & the first thing out of her mouth was, “wow, how’d you darken your hair so much? i thought you never dyed your hair!”—cue look of chagrin.] now, i have naturally quite dark brown, plus four-years-&-counting’s worth of compulsively-thorough BAQ hennaing—so i really doubt that i’ll have much luck lightening it significantly without persistent & repeated water|honey mixtures.

my hair is absurdly thick—& it takes me a good hour & a half to section off + apply a mix with ANY amount of thoroughness—so i'd prefer to do fewer|longer|intensive honey treatments than a proliferation of 6-hour ones.

basically, i'm wondering if there's any reason i shouldn't bother keeping a mix like this in my hair for 24-hours straight. i won't be using anything but honey + water, & let's take it as a given that i'm not allergic to either. i also don't care if my hair gets dramatically lighter—the only goal i have in mind is that it lighten enough to [i]at least be able to show the red if i dyed it with henna again. the lighter, the better, basically.

{i have two weeks of time off from work with no social obligations, so i'd like to take advantage of the opportunity to do some intensive hair-remedyin’.}



ALSO:
so, i've have got distilled water + a brand-spankin'-new {as in, i bought it a few hours ago} 2 lb jar of honey for this next mix. i haven’t washed my hair in about a week, & it's not oily or dry or anything in particular…but i figure i should rinse it beforehand just the same. i usually wash thoroughly with apple cider vinegar, & rinse cursorily with tap water before i henna my hair—that’s my idea of a thorough clean—but i read [somewhere, hell if i know where in this monster of a thread] that acidity screws up the efficacy of the peroxide, which i guess is very exacting about the pH levels in its surroundings.

how should i be cleaning my hair prior to applying honey?

my tap water is incredibly hard—i have no idea what the pH is, but it's rural ground water from the berkshires here in massachusetts, & you don't even want to know how often i have to scrub down the aerators in the faucets in order to get decent water flow on account of how easily mineral deposits build up in there—should i be doing a final rinse with distilled water, or…something?

[i just looked up info on where my town gets its water supply from. according to an official gov document,


Water from the aquifer has a relatively high hardness and therefore Aqua-Mag phosphate sequestering agent is added to the water from the wells to prevent calcium precipitation in the distribution system. Water is also chlorinated for disinfection prior to distribution.]

[B]A TANGENTIALLY-RELATED QUESTION:
i get the impression that the honey & the distilled water should both be room temperature. does it matter if i've rinsed my hair in cold or hot water, as long as my hair is currently approximately room temperature?


...crap, this is a lot longer than i meant it to be.

ktani
April 22nd, 2010, 06:26 AM
hey, throwing this question out to the collective LHC anonymous:
so i’ve read a thousand times that it takes about an hour for the peroxide levels in the honey|water mixture to mature, but i’m not seeing anything about when—or even just whether—the produced peroxide depletes & there’s no point in keeping the mix on any longer.

does this mix reach a “demise” after a certain number of hours—as henna does—or is it just limited by how long you can manage to keep the hair continually wet from the honey|water mixture?



i ask because [a.k.a., backstory|context]:
i’ve tried this diluted honey recipe before, but with [very, very] old, once-crystallised-&-reheated honey [the Whole Foods one at the end of US list of successful honeys]—left it in for a night, didn’t change a thing. [a few days later, i saw one of my friends & the first thing out of her mouth was, “wow, how’d you darken your hair so much? i thought you never dyed your hair!”—cue look of chagrin.] now, i have naturally quite dark brown, plus four-years-&-counting’s worth of compulsively-thorough BAQ hennaing—so i really doubt that i’ll have much luck lightening it significantly without persistent & repeated water|honey mixtures.

my hair is absurdly thick—& it takes me a good hour & a half to section off + apply a mix with ANY amount of thoroughness—so i'd prefer to do fewer|longer|intensive honey treatments than a proliferation of 6-hour ones.

basically, i'm wondering if there's any reason i shouldn't bother keeping a mix like this in my hair for 24-hours straight. i won't be using anything but honey + water, & let's take it as a given that i'm not allergic to either. i also don't care if my hair gets dramatically lighter—the only goal i have in mind is that it lighten enough to [I]at least be able to show the red if i dyed it with henna again. the lighter, the better, basically.

{i have two weeks of time off from work with no social obligations, so i'd like to take advantage of the opportunity to do some intensive hair-remedyin’.}



ALSO:
so, i've have got distilled water + a brand-spankin'-new {as in, i bought it a few hours ago} 2 lb jar of honey for this next mix. i haven’t washed my hair in about a week, & it's not oily or dry or anything in particular…but i figure i should rinse it beforehand just the same. i usually wash thoroughly with apple cider vinegar, & rinse cursorily with tap water before i henna my hair—that’s my idea of a thorough clean—but i read [somewhere, hell if i know where in this monster of a thread] that acidity screws up the efficacy of the peroxide, which i guess is very exacting about the pH levels in its surroundings.

how should i be cleaning my hair prior to applying honey?

my tap water is incredibly hard—i have no idea what the pH is, but it's rural ground water from the berkshires here in massachusetts, & you don't even want to know how often i have to scrub down the aerators in the faucets in order to get decent water flow on account of how easily mineral deposits build up in there—should i be doing a final rinse with distilled water, or…something?

[i just looked up info on where my town gets its water supply from. according to an official gov document,

]

[B]A TANGENTIALLY-RELATED QUESTION:
i get the impression that the honey & the distilled water should both be room temperature. does it matter if i've rinsed my hair in cold or hot water, as long as my hair is currently approximately room temperature?


...crap, this is a lot longer than i meant it to be.

The honey peroxide demise question has come up but I did not specifically put that one in the first post. It also has been asked separately, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=890441&postcount=2

Welcome to LHC!

Apple cider vinegar will not remove product build-up. So it depends on whether you clarify your hair at a point or shampoo it, which can remove build-up and henna resin, which washes out gradually, both of which can impede a treatment from working.

If your hard water, which has been treated, still causes you to have to scrub your faucet aerators frequently, it still has enough minerals in it to be problematic, in my opinion.

Rather than pin your hair up for a treatment and covering it, you can keep it thoroughly wet for an hour by constantly misting it with treatment from a spray bottle (make a large enough batch to have extra).

It makes no difference if you rinse your hair beforehand with hot or cold water. Your hair will not retain the temperature long enough to affect the treatment.

Most successful honey lighting treatments on hennared hair have included the boosters in the recipe but with a high peroxide honey like Jarrah honey, Alley Cat was able to lighten her dark dyed, previously hennaed hair, with that and distilled water, after adjusting her recipe, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=227610&postcount=1907

ladyships
April 22nd, 2010, 07:35 AM
thanks for the swift reply! [also, the welcome!]

i have super sensitive skin, so i was just going to stick with the straight new dilution for the time being—if i get to five attempts & absolutely no change, i’ll probably invest in some jarrah & try adding cardamum and|or EVOO [cinnamon is out of the question—it doesn’t bother my scalp at all, but it wreaks havoc on my face something awful given half the chance, & anything i put on my hair ends up on my face in the process.]

my hair’s super thick & down to my tailbone & stick straight, so there’s no real way of keeping it down with intermittent misting without inadvertently getting honeyed water over everything within a five foot radius.

i just made a batch of the mixture with the correct proportions, & i had no idea how watery it was—it’ll be a breeze to work thoroughly through my hair, & i’ll just french braid it & roll up & tuck the tail into the pocket underneath the top part. saran wrap it, throw a shower cap on, & wrap a light towel over it. i’ll be able to tell from the way it feels if it’s drying out, & can always respritz if needed. i’ll do that for however long i can stand sticky residue creeping intermittently down the back of my neck.

i’ll post before & after pictures if anything interesting happens.

ktani
April 22nd, 2010, 07:43 AM
thanks for the swift reply! [also, the welcome!]

i have super sensitive skin, so i was just going to stick with the straight new dilution for the time being—if i get to five attempts & absolutely no change, i’ll probably invest in some jarrah & try adding cardamum and|or EVOO [cinnamon is out of the question—it doesn’t bother my scalp at all, but it wreaks havoc on my face something awful given half the chance, & anything i put on my hair ends up on my face in the process.]

my hair’s super thick & down to my tailbone & stick straight, so there’s no real way of keeping it down with intermittent misting without inadvertently getting honeyed water over everything within a five foot radius.

i just made a batch of the mixture with the correct proportions, & i had no idea how watery it was—it’ll be a breeze to work thoroughly through my hair, & i’ll just french braid it & roll up & tuck the tail into the pocket underneath the top part. saran wrap it, throw a shower cap on, & wrap a light towel over it. i’ll be able to tell from the way it feels if it’s drying out, & can always respritz if needed. i’ll do that for however long i can stand sticky residue creeping intermittently down the back of my neck.

i’ll post before & after pictures if anything interesting happens.

Sounds great. I would recommend washing your hair to remove any residue though with something other than vinegar. You can always conditioner only wash a treatment out. If you get honey residue (it can leave the ends feeling dry) shampoo has been reported to be the best to remove that but vinegar has been reported to help (diluted) and extra long water rinses.

I totally agree about the cinnamon. That is why I recommend patch testing any ingredient not used before.

There is no way to predict how many treatments one will need or the results. There are variables but I think they are all covered now. Some tap waters have been reported to work well but few and far between. They have been ones with an extremely low mineral content.

Good luck and please update!

ETA: Recently, Capilano Australian honey has been reported to work well and seeing that you are in the U.S., you may be able to find it at Kroger, as a less expensive option to importing Jarrah honey, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1045814&postcount=4298.

Rinsing freshly washed hair with vinegar after a shampoo should not adversly affect the pH of a treatment, as most people rinse the vinegar rinse out. It is the pH of the treatment itself that can be problematic.

Honey lightening treatments with the new dilution and recipes have not been reported to darken hair. However, moisturized hair can appear to be darker than hair that is very dry. Oiled hair can appear to be darker as well, even though a number of oils do not impart colour. Certain treatments used in between honey lightening have been reported to affect colour, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=294952&postcount=2364. Apple cider vinegar has been reported to darken hair as well.

lilravendark
May 7th, 2010, 09:27 PM
Hi ktani I've been following this thread for a while and have done a few applications myself and I have to say I think I can see a considerable difference to my hair :D I used a brand called barnes honey which comes in a little jar and recently have used capilano manuka honey on my hair. I've done about 4 application so far each an hour at a time just using the honey and boiled water that has been cooled down anyway this is the result
Before
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=5086&pictureid=67858

And After
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=5086&pictureid=71369

ktani
May 8th, 2010, 09:38 AM
Hi ktani I've been following this thread for a while and have done a few applications myself and I have to say I think I can see a considerable difference to my hair :D I used a brand called barnes honey which comes in a little jar and recently have used capilano manuka honey on my hair. I've done about 4 application so far each an hour at a time just using the honey and boiled water that has been cooled down anyway this is the result
Before
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=5086&pictureid=67858

And After
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=5086&pictureid=71369

Thank you so much for the report and the pictures!

The lighting is darker in the before picture but I can see a difference of colour in the after on the left side. Even in the before picture, the reddish colour is only on the back. In the after the left side shows the colour.

You may or may not want to try distilled water. Your boiled tap water seems to be working well for you. Some tap water work just fine but they tend to be the exception.

Please, to help others, give a detailed description of your recipe proportions, and method (did you cover your hair and with what) and more details about barnes honey, what kind of honey it is if it says on the label and where to buy it in Australia.

lilravendark
May 8th, 2010, 08:52 PM
I did equal portions of honey to water and just brushed it evenly onto my hair with a salon tint brush then covered it with a moist towel I tried cling wrap but it tends to leak so much so the moist towel keeps it wet and stops it from dripping everywhere. Barnes honey can be bought from any coles supermarket I chose it because it was darker in colour than the other honeys I looked at, It's an Australian owned honey that uses a blend of australian and new zealand honey and its owned by capilano this is what the jar looks like
http://www.wasteman.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/honey.jpg

ktani
May 9th, 2010, 06:37 AM
I did equal portions of honey to water and just brushed it evenly onto my hair with a salon tint brush then covered it with a moist towel I tried cling wrap but it tends to leak so much so the moist towel keeps it wet and stops it from dripping everywhere. Barnes honey can be bought from any coles supermarket I chose it because it was darker in colour than the other honeys I looked at, It's an Australian owned honey that uses a blend of australian and new zealand honey and its owned by capilano this is what the jar looks like
http://www.wasteman.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/honey.jpg

Normally a towel would absorb water from the treatment and help dry the hair but from your results I would say that you kept the towel moist enough. Also, from your recipe proportions and results, the pH of both your honey and water, seem to be just right. Honey produces most of its peroxide at a pH of 6 when diluted with a fluid that contains water, from research I trust to be accurate. Well done!

I will add your 2 posts to the reports in the first post of this thread. Your method is innovative and may help others. I will note it in the first post as well.

ETA: Before I do the above, I need to ask you 2 questions, please, 1 to place your results in the proper place. 1. How is the condition of your hair following the honey lightening? 2. Is your starting colour virgin or colour-treated?

lilravendark
May 10th, 2010, 01:57 AM
Normally a towel would absorb water from the treatment and help dry the hair but from your results I would say that you kept the towel moist enough. Also, from your recipe proportions and results, the pH of both your honey and water, seem to be just right. Honey produces most of its peroxide at a pH of 6 when diluted with a fluid that contains water, from research I trust to be accurate. Well done!

I will add your 2 posts to the reports in the first post of this thread. Your method is innovative and may help others. I will note it in the first post as well.

ETA: Before I do the above, I need to ask you 2 questions, please, 1 to place your results in the proper place. 1. How is the condition of your hair following the honey lightening? 2. Is your starting colour virgin or colour-treated?

Following the honey treatment my hair is the same doesn't feel dry or hay like, I think it actually feels a lot softer and bouncier after a honey lightening.
As for my colour it was henndigo but I havent hennaed it for about a year or maybe longer. I'm surprised it had worked so well I went from very dark almost black to dark warm brown :)

Thanks for the awesome info on honey, I'm going to honey on a regular basis to see what level of lightening I can achieve, I think next treatment I will try the distilled water.

ktani
May 10th, 2010, 05:00 AM
Following the honey treatment my hair is the same doesn't feel dry or hay like, I think it actually feels a lot softer and bouncier after a honey lightening.
As for my colour it was henndigo but I havent hennaed it for about a year or maybe longer. I'm surprised it had worked so well I went from very dark almost black to dark warm brown :)

Thanks for the awesome info on honey, I'm going to honey on a regular basis to see what level of lightening I can achieve, I think next treatment I will try the distilled water.

Thank you so much for the reply and you are most welcome!

Honey lightening has been reported to work on henndigo before. It depends on how much is on the hair and whether it is 2 step as to how well it can work. 2 step can be more difficult to lighten.

Good luck with the distilled water and please update.

ETA: I have added all 3 of your posts to the Picture Posts in the first post, and to the post on honey lightening innovations, information on the moist towel to the post with explanations and links and the Honey Article, and added Barnes honey to the Successful Honeys List.

Opaka
May 20th, 2010, 12:40 AM
I'm just about to wash my hair out after doing my first honey treatment. I've never died my hair before (neither naturally nor with chemicals) so I'm kind of excited. I took a photo before I started, and will be taking photos along the way to see the difference. (I plan to repeat the treatment at least twice.)

Thanks for the wealth of information! I've been looking all over for ways of lightening hair naturally and nowhere else had this much helpful information.

ktani
May 20th, 2010, 06:59 AM
I'm just about to wash my hair out after doing my first honey treatment. I've never died my hair before (neither naturally nor with chemicals) so I'm kind of excited. I took a photo before I started, and will be taking photos along the way to see the difference. (I plan to repeat the treatment at least twice.)

Thanks for the wealth of information! I've been looking all over for ways of lightening hair naturally and nowhere else had this much helpful information.

You are most welcome! Good luck!

mktmgt
June 10th, 2010, 10:40 PM
Well...at least my hair is shiny. I think a mix like this would work as a good toner for blondes. I left it on over night a week and a half ago or so and it just made my orange locks copper. I do not like it. This WILL lighten your hair. But you can never be too sure what the results might pertain to. If you want a more reliable result, I'd reccommend purchasing a reliable lightening product...if you don't mind damage (which I DO mind). Sorry for my rant, I'm just extremely unhappy with my results. It's now damaged, frizzy and it looks as though I have faded dyed hair that was once red, and my red hair is natural. I guess my mix just had a high peroxide level. Maybe I just shouldn't have slept in it...*sigh*..

ktani
June 10th, 2010, 10:53 PM
Well...at least my hair is shiny. I think a mix like this would work as a good toner for blondes. I left it on over night a week and a half ago or so and it just made my orange locks copper. I do not like it. This WILL lighten your hair. But you can never be too sure what the results might pertain to. If you want a more reliable result, I'd reccommend purchasing a reliable lightening product...if you don't mind damage (which I DO mind). Sorry for my rant, I'm just extremely unhappy with my results. It's now damaged, frizzy and it looks as though I have faded dyed hair that was once red, and my red hair is natural. I guess my mix just had a high peroxide level. Maybe I just shouldn't have slept in it...*sigh*..

Sorry to hear that you are so unhappy with your results. The lightening from honey lightening has not been reported to damage hair no matter how long a treatment has been left on the hair or how often one has been used. Dry to very dry hair from honey residue has been reported. That can be removed with shampoo, also without damage to hair and the hair has been reported to recover well and quickly.

The colour one gets is related to the starting colour and the natural pigment in one's hair. Some people get red tones while others do not. Strand testing is a good way to help determine that. Try shampooing and conditioning over the next few days to see how well you hair feels and looks. Your hair may recover its softness and moisture in one or more shampooings.

Water only or conditioner only cannot remove honey residue. Vinegar rinses have not been reported to remove it as well as shampoo. Any coating like honey residue or a resin or build-up if not removed can make the hair appear and feel dry and can cause stress through mechanically trying to comb the hair while the coating is on the hair.

mktmgt
June 11th, 2010, 02:23 AM
Sorry to hear that you are so unhappy with your results. The lightening from honey lightening has not been reported to damage hair no matter how long a treatment has been left on the hair or how often one has been used. Dry to very dry hair from honey residue has been reported. That can be removed with shampoo, also without damage to hair and the hair has been reported to recover well and quickly.

The colour one gets is related to the starting colour and the natural pigment in one's hair. Some people get red tones while others do not. Strand testing is a good way to help determine that. Try shampooing and conditioning over the next few days to see how well you hair feels and looks. Your hair may recover its softness and moisture in one or more shampooings.

Water only or conditioner only cannot remove honey residue. Vinegar rinses have not been reported to remove it as well as shampoo. Any coating like honey residue or a resin or build-up if not removed can make the hair appear and feel dry and can cause stress through mechanically trying to comb the hair while the coating is on the hair. Thank you so much for your advice, I really appreciate it. Yeah, maybe the frizziness and such was from a different source. I should have been more cautious. Honey may be natural, but the results were pretty potent for me. My boyfriend is pretty shocked at how much my hair color changed. Have drastic results occured with others before? I wish I could show you. If only my camera was working...

ktani
June 11th, 2010, 06:00 AM
Thank you so much for your advise, I really appreciate it. Yeah, maybe the frizziness and such was from a different source. I should have been more cautious. Honey may be natural, but the results were pretty potent for me. My boyfriend is pretty shocked at how much my hair color changed. Have drastic results occured with others before? I wish I could show you. If only my camera was working...

You are most welcome. I am not disputing your results. The cause of your results is inconsistant with other reports of lightening results and very consistant with reports of honey residue being a problem, though not to the degree you report, with 2 Honey thread reported exceptions.

Some lightening has been more dramatic than others, example kokuryu - on virgin, mid-blonde hair - using only tap water and honey, unmeasured - after 2 treatments, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=198570&postcount=1767, recipe details and the condition of her hair, - http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=198483&postcount=1765, on the condition of her hair after 3 treatments, - http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=202876&postcount=1801, and bizarrogirl - on henndigoed hair (2 henndigo treatments) (baq henna) and then on multiple henna layers - after 2 treatments in total - with ground cinnamon http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=109432&postcount=586, bizarrogirl - picture details, http://www.flickr.com/photos/bizarrogirl/sets/72157594199905645/detail/, again no damage has been reported from it. Honey lightening has not been reported to further damage already damaged hair.

Where honey lightening has been reported to occur by accident in other threads, no damage has been reported in those instances either. Lightening from honey was reported on these boards before the Honey threads were started and no damage from it was reported in any report. The Honey threads were started (the first one of 5, with this being the current one, was started December '06), to try and help people who wanted to lighten their hair with honey get better and more consistant results, which the new (current) recommendations have been reported to do. I started all 5 Honey threads, have read every report and for this thread, kept a record of posts. I have the links to the other 4 Honey threads saved too.

There have been 2 cases where dryness such as you report caused people to be upset in Honey threads (people have reported honey residue being a problem elsewhere on the boards). In one instance water only was used to wash the the hair at the time, which was reported to be very dry after a honey lightening treatment but no lightening was reported to have occured. In the second report, the honey residue was able to be washed off with shampoo and reoccured every time honey was used to lighten no matter what kind of honey was used (different honeys leave different levels of residue from not discernable to very discernable) and the reported lightening was minimal.

The reports in all 5 of the the Honey threads and in other threads on the boards, that the regular and long term use of honey, whether in an unmicrowaved SMT, or honey lightening recipe, caused no damage to hair, led to the research I read about and posted, See number 11. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096, that led to this thread, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=10495.

What is your hair routine? Shampoo should help the problem.

Jorchet
June 26th, 2010, 02:14 PM
Hi, everyone! I haven't tried the honey treatment in a while so I haven't been posting on here for that reason.
Anyway, just wanted to say that you can get Manuka Honey in the UK now from Holland & Barret (http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/pages/categories.asp?cid=128&searchterm=honey&rdcnt=1). I don't know if anyone already knew/posted about it; just thought it'd be handy for those in the UK trying to do the treatment with the best kind of honey for it. :)

ktani
June 26th, 2010, 02:56 PM
Hi, everyone! I haven't tried the honey treatment in a while so I haven't been posting on here for that reason.
Anyway, just wanted to say that you can get Manuka Honey in the UK now from Holland & Barret (http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/pages/categories.asp?cid=128&searchterm=honey&rdcnt=1). I don't know if anyone already knew/posted about it; just thought it'd be handy for those in the UK trying to do the treatment with the best kind of honey for it. :)

I think it is great if you have found that Manuka honey works well for you. I do not know where you got the idea that it is the best honey to use for honey lightening. Recently, this honey was reported to yield excellent results, Capilano Australian honey from Kroger, and was added to the Successful Honeys List.

The list and more can be found in the first post in this link, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096 among others.

Jarrah honey has a higher peroxide honey than Manuka Honey, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=157257&postcount=1266. It can be expensive to import.

UMF Manuka honey from New Zealand, which monitors quality, http://www.umf.org.nz/The-UMF-Trademark.html is the best in my opinion to use medicinally. Its total antibacterial properties come from another source in addition to its peroxide level.

For honey lightening some of the cheapest, pasteurized, grocery store honeys have been reported to yield excellent results. I do not believe after having read every successful honey lighhtening report in all 5 Honey threads, including this one, that a honey for honey lightening needs to be expensive or raw. It just needs to produce a good peroxide level.

Jorchet
July 1st, 2010, 04:33 PM
I think it is great if you have found that Manuka honey works well for you. I do not know where you got the idea that it is the best honey to use for honey lightening. Recently, this honey was reported to yield excellent results, Capilano Australian honey from Kroger, and was added to the Successful Honeys List.

The list and more can be found in the first post in this link, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096 among others.

Jarrah honey has a higher peroxide honey than Manuka Honey, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=157257&postcount=1266. It can be expensive to import.

UMF Manuka honey from New Zealand, which monitors quality, http://www.umf.org.nz/The-UMF-Trademark.html is the best in my opinion to use medicinally. Its total antibacterial properties come from another source in addition to its peroxide level.

For honey lightening some of the cheapest, pasteurized, grocery store honeys have been reported to yield excellent results. I do not believe after having read every successful honey lighhtening report in all 5 Honey threads, including this one, that a honey for honey lightening needs to be expensive or raw. It just needs to produce a good peroxide level.

Must be that I never got to read that post, since I haven't been reading this thread for a while because I can't get the right honey where I'm at these days...:rolleyes: Now that I think of it, the last time I tried this treatment it was 2 years ago! - wooooow! I hadn't realised!!! - so, been coming into the thread to check other people's results. Thanks for the new tips! :thumbsup:

ktani
July 1st, 2010, 04:38 PM
Must be that I never got to read that post, since I haven't been reading this thread for a while because I can't get the right honey where I'm at these days...:rolleyes: Now that I think of it, the last time I tried this treatment it was 2 years ago! - wooooow! I hadn't realised!!! - so, been coming into the thread to check other people's results. Thanks for the new tips! :thumbsup:

You are most welcome! There is nothing wrong with using Manuka honey for honey lightening. It was never recommended as the best honey to use though. Research mentioned in the Honey threads on peroxide and honey came from research on Manuka honey. And some Manuka honeys do have a good peroxide value. There are different Manuka honeys. It can be, depending on where one is located, prohibitively expensive.

intothemist1999
July 9th, 2010, 04:21 PM
What do you do for touch ups, just like you would with any other hair colour? I'm tempted to try, but a bit chicken. I have very dark hair that has a temporary concoction of Herbvita on it.

ETA: never mind! :) I found the answer here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=296249&postcount=2371).

Liesel
July 25th, 2010, 12:51 PM
Hey guys! I've started using this method but I like to try out new things, so one of my ideas for mixing this around a bit was to use water that had been boiled with onion skins (and then cooled to room temp), because I know that
A. Onion skins have been used to lighten hair color; and
B. Onion skins contain quercetin.
However, I can't find the full nutrition facts for onion skins, so I don't know if this would actually take me backwards due to Vitamin C content or anything else. I'm still searching, but does anyone happen to know the nutrient content of yellow (I use vidalia) onion skins? Any theories on why this may be a bad idea are welcome ;)

Btw, no, I'm not worried about potential onion smell :D I eat tons of onion and always have them on hand, so I'd like to make use of the skins too. I also happened upon info that people make soup broth with them or a drink purported to improve vision.

ktani
July 25th, 2010, 02:26 PM
Hey guys! I've started using this method but I like to try out new things, so one of my ideas for mixing this around a bit was to use water that had been boiled with onion skins (and then cooled to room temp), because I know that
A. Onion skins have been used to lighten hair color; and
B. Onion skins contain quercetin.
However, I can't find the full nutrition facts for onion skins, so I don't know if this would actually take me backwards due to Vitamin C content or anything else. I'm still searching, but does anyone happen to know the nutrient content of yellow (I use vidalia) onion skins? Any theories on why this may be a bad idea are welcome ;)

Btw, no, I'm not worried about potential onion smell :D I eat tons of onion and always have them on hand, so I'd like to make use of the skins too. I also happened upon info that people make soup broth with them or a drink purported to improve vision.

Onion skins are used to dye Easter eggs brown and were recommended in a now archived thread I started as a temporary dye stain on hair, http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=59094. The skins should have no odour and are better used to dye fabric and wool. On hair the stain was a weak yellow/brown. I have not heard of them being used to lighten hair colour.

If they do contain any appreciable Vitamin C, that can lower the peroxide level of the honey lightening mix.

Hylia
July 26th, 2010, 08:46 PM
I just have a question, what exactly is distilled water? I`m guessing its not the same as tap water:P Is there a way to make it, or buy it maybe? :P

Drynwhyl
July 26th, 2010, 09:03 PM
^ basically purified water, with no extra minerals, chemicals or anything. Usually sterile, I think.
You can buy it in bottles or big 5l jugs, I suppose you could try in a pharmacy? But I've seen it in supermarkets too.

ktani
July 26th, 2010, 10:16 PM
I just have a question, what exactly is distilled water? I`m guessing its not the same as tap water:P Is there a way to make it, or buy it maybe? :P

See number 2. in this post from the first post in this thread.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

Hylia
July 26th, 2010, 10:49 PM
Oh thank you for the responses :) Can I buy this in grocery stores? or do I have to go to a specialty store.

ktani
July 27th, 2010, 05:34 AM
Oh thank you for the responses :) Can I buy this in grocery stores? or do I have to go to a specialty store.

You are most welcome! The first link in number 2. from that post has sources where you can buy distilled water. Here you go, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=295887&postcount=2369.

LouLaLa
August 14th, 2010, 09:37 AM
I just mixed up my first ever batch! Ill give it the hour and then into the adventures of honey! Excited :D

ktani
August 14th, 2010, 09:48 AM
I just mixed up my first ever batch! Ill give it the hour and then into the adventures of honey! Excited :D

I am around today and look forward to hearing how it goes. I will be on and offline. Good luck!

LouLaLa
August 14th, 2010, 11:06 AM
LouLaLa's Honey Pot Adventure Part 1

Hair Type: 1a / F / ii
Hair Colour:
Roots: Natural Ash Blonde Silver Cast (2 inches)
Length: Medium Golden Blonde

Expected Outcomes: I only wish to dye my roots significantly lighter and cover lightly the middle of my hair and not dye the ends at all.


Method:
2:12 Tablespoons Honey:Water
1/2 Tablespoon: EVOO (I ran out oops!)

Experiences

Making the Mixture
This was easy to do, it blended nicely and after the hour was up I could smell honey wafting in the air which I assume was a good indication it was ready.

Applying the Mixture
To begin with I had no issues. As I am focusing on my roots I went to the bathroom found an unused tooth brush and soaked it in the honey, I then "combed" my hair at the root till it was fully saturated.

On the middle length I had a hard time getting the mixture on my head, I was very sticky! However I just kept baby wipes on hand and used a spoon to ladel the mix very slowly onto my head. This worked much better and the slight spillage while a wee bit sticky wasnt unpleasant as it smelled pretty nice. It wasnt as messy as conventional chemical dyes are (in my expereince). I tied up the end of my hair out of the way as I don't want to dye it, I am attempting to achive slightly more uniformity in my hair colour while I grow the chemical dye out.

To get off the excess mess I just used some facial toner on cotton wool balls and this really cut through the stickyness.

Then I put on a shower cap.

Tips
I wore my old glasess and t-shirt I am thankful as it can be a little tricky getting the hang of things.

The toothbrush method worked well, it was neat and precise. Next time I would use a squeezy bottle and the toothbrush.

...now I just have to wait for it to develop...

ktani
August 14th, 2010, 11:17 AM
LouLaLa's Honey Pot Adventure Part 1

Hair Type: 1a / F / ii
Hair Colour:
Roots: Natural Ash Blonde Silver Cast (2 inches)
Length: Medium Golden Blonde

Expected Outcomes: I only wish to dye my roots significantly lighter and cover lightly the middle of my hair and not dye the ends at all.


Method:
2:12 Tablespoons Honey:Water
1/2 Tablespoon: EVOO (I ran out oops!)

Experiences

Making the Mixture
This was easy to do, it blended nicely and after the hour was up I could smell honey wafting in the air which I assume was a good indication it was ready.

Applying the Mixture
To begin with I had no issues. As I am focusing on my roots I went to the bathroom found an unused tooth brush and soaked it in the honey, I then "combed" my hair at the root till it was fully saturated.

On the middle length I had a hard time getting the mixture on my head, I was very sticky! However I just kept baby wipes on hand and used a spoon to ladel the mix very slowly onto my head. This worked much better and the slight spillage while a wee bit sticky wasnt unpleasant as it smelled pretty nice. It wasnt as messy as conventional chemical dyes are (in my expereince). I tied up the end of my hair out of the way as I don't want to dye it, I am attempting to achive slightly more uniformity in my hair colour while I grow the chemical dye out.

To get off the excess mess I just used some facial toner on cotton wool balls and this really cut through the stickyness.

Then I put on a shower cap.

Tips
I wore my old glasess and t-shirt I am thankful as it can be a little tricky getting the hang of things.

The toothbrush method worked well, it was neat and precise. Next time I would use a squeezy bottle and the toothbrush.

...now I just have to wait for it to develop...

It all sounds good. I hope your honey and tap water work well. As long as the roots remain wet during the treatment time you can get good results.

LouLaLa
August 14th, 2010, 04:35 PM
Ok results...

My hair isnt "lighter" but it is brighter.

My roots are more belnded but still noticeable, however due to lighting I always have a little shade anyway.

My hair is significantly softer. Even for this alone it was worth it.

All in all I think this was a good experience. I would do it again but rather than for "dying" my hair I think its a good blonde brightener and softens the hair beautifully. As such since im a natural blonde anyway I wasnt too bothered that it didnt lift my colour noticably and really there wasnt much more to lift as my hair is naturally fairly blonde ( thought medium, but after looking at others pictures maybe I am more light/medium). It met my expectations of a first application very well.

I imagine regular applications would lift the roots more, but since I have dyed gold and natural ash tones it was highly unlikely they were going to harmonize anyway.

All in all honey was worth the effort. I will definately SMT in future and also "brighten" my hair once a week using the prescribed recipie (when I get distilled water) as while growing the dye out it is nice to finally be rid of the brassyness that golden dye can fade into.

So a major thankyou to ktani and everyone who contributed to the thread. I love it and Im very happy with my hair :)

(I will to upload pics tomorrow (hopefully) but due to lighting/shade issues im not sure how obvious the difference will be, working as I am, with two competing tones of blonde)

ktani
August 14th, 2010, 09:11 PM
Ok results...

My hair isnt "lighter" but it is brighter.

My roots are more belnded but still noticeable, however due to lighting I always have a little shade anyway.

My hair is significantly softer. Even for this alone it was worth it.

All in all I think this was a good experience. I would do it again but rather than for "dying" my hair I think its a good blonde brightener and softens the hair beautifully. As such since im a natural blonde anyway I wasnt too bothered that it didnt lift my colour noticably and really there wasnt much more to lift as my hair is naturally fairly blonde ( thought medium, but after looking at others pictures maybe I am more light/medium). It met my expectations of a first application very well.

I imagine regular applications would lift the roots more, but since I have dyed gold and natural ash tones it was highly unlikely they were going to harmonize anyway.

All in all honey was worth the effort. I will definately SMT in future and also "brighten" my hair once a week using the prescribed recipie (when I get distilled water) as while growing the dye out it is nice to finally be rid of the brassyness that golden dye can fade into.

So a major thankyou to ktani and everyone who contributed to the thread. I love it and Im very happy with my hair :)

(I will to upload pics tomorrow (hopefully) but due to lighting/shade issues im not sure how obvious the difference will be, working as I am, with two competing tones of blonde)

I am so glad to read that the results were positive even though you did not get the lightening you hoped for. Great news that you are so pleased about the conditioning results.

It can be more difficult to do roots with honey lightening because the root area dries quickly due to body heat.

Next time in addition to trying distilled water: one of the spices after patch testing in additon to extra virgin olive oil, keeping some of the solution back and spraying it on the root area just before covering your hair, and using plastic wrap under a swim cap instead of a shower cap may help to increase lightening.

LouLaLa
August 15th, 2010, 09:56 AM
[quote=ktani;1213710]I am so glad to read that the results were positive even though you did not get the lightening you hoped for. Great news that you are so pleased about the conditioning results.
It can be more difficult to do roots with honey lightening because the root area dries quickly due to body heat.
[snip] quote]

Thankyou :)

I kept wetting my roots but as I said there is such a tonal differenc ein the blondes the honey really did work well, the roots are pretty nice now its settled.

Also Ive had alot of people looking at my hair today and saying nice things, even strangers! So I do think it did the job admirably. For me having a "quality" blonde is better than racing after ever blonder hair, so its met my expectations.

Really this is the miracle product for brassyness as it tones it down SO well.

ktani
August 15th, 2010, 10:03 AM
I am so glad to read that the results were positive even though you did not get the lightening you hoped for. Great news that you are so pleased about the conditioning results.
It can be more difficult to do roots with honey lightening because the root area dries quickly due to body heat.
[snip] quote]

Thankyou :)

I kept wetting my roots but as I said there is such a tonal differenc ein the blondes the honey really did work well, the roots are pretty nice now its settled.

Also Ive had alot of people looking at my hair today and saying nice things, even strangers! So I do think it did the job admirably. For me having a "quality" blonde is better than racing after ever blonder hair, so its met my expectations.

Really this is the miracle product for brassyness as it tones it down SO well.

Yes, honey lightening has been reported often to tone down and remove brassiness without any damage.

I am so glad that you reported real life responses to your results. That is better than pictures, in which it is often difficult to see reported changes in colour, due to lighting difficulties.

It sounds now as if you have achieved the results you were after. Well done!

MandyBeth
August 15th, 2010, 06:57 PM
Ktani, want me to track my changes to the henna? I'm not trying to get rid of the henna as much as blend the demarcation lines.

ktani
August 15th, 2010, 07:51 PM
Ktani, want me to track my changes to the henna? I'm not trying to get rid of the henna as much as blend the demarcation lines.

All honey lightening reports are welcome, if I understand you correctly or conditioning reports or questions.

LouLaLa
August 16th, 2010, 03:23 PM
Second treatment

This time is used tap water, olive oil and honey.

I would have used distilled but I was on my bike when I went shopping and it was just to heavy to carry home :p

My hair does seem very "bright". It looks like a light blonde even though the natural and dyed portions of my hair were medium blonde. Its hard to explain but I suppose my hair is a "clear, clarified blonde" now, its back to my childhood/early teens natural blonde i.e. it has translucency rather than "obviously pigmented".

The shine is exceptional and it feels as soft as a babys hair, which considering it was once so overprocessed my hairdresser told me never to dye again is a miracle!

So all in all if anyone wants to be able to feel hair as soft as it was in your childhood this is unbeatable. I cant really praise this high enough.

Im trying to persuade my mum whose hair was dyed very dark brown instead of mid brown to give it a go so I can comapre and contrast effects and also see if someone who has the same hair type as me and is genetically related expereinces silmilar effects.

Ktani youve LITERALLY rescused my hair from what I thought was the point of no return so thankyou ever so much, LHC is so so lucky to have you!

ktani
August 16th, 2010, 03:29 PM
Second treatment

This time is used tap water, olive oil and honey.

I would have used distilled but I was on my bike when I went shopping and it was just to heavy to carry home :p

My hair does seem very "bright". It looks like a light blonde even though the natural and dyed portions of my hair were medium blonde. Its hard to explain but I suppose my hair is a "clear, clarified blonde" now, its back to my childhood/early teens natural blonde i.e. it has translucency rather than "obviously pigmented".

The shine is exceptional and it feels as soft as a babys hair, which considering it was once so overprocessed my hairdresser told me never to dye again is a miracle!

So all in all if anyone wants to be able to feel hair as soft as it was in your childhood this is unbeatable. I cant really praise this high enough.

Im trying to persuade my mum whose hair was dyed very dark brown instead of mid brown to give it a go so I can comapre and contrast effects and also see if someone who has the same hair type as me and is genetically related expereinces silmilar effects.

Ktani youve LITERALLY rescused my hair from what I thought was the point of no return so thankyou ever so much, LHC is so so lucky to have you!

Thank you so much!

I am thrilled that you are so thrilled with your results. People have used the new diltuion recipes for conditioning too. It sounds like your tap water is just fine. It is the exception rather than the rule for that to be the case. Your honey sounds like it works just fine as well. What brand and type is it?

LouLaLa
August 16th, 2010, 03:45 PM
Thank you so much!

I am thrilled that you are so thrilled with your results. People have used the new diltuion recipes for conditioning too. It sounds like your tap water is just fine. It is the exception rather than the rule for that to be the case. Your honey sounds like it works just fine as well. What brand and type is it?

It is from the UK and it is Asda's own brand "Clear Honey" and on the back it says it is a blend of EC and non EC honey. I must say I was surprised at its remarkable effectiveness, it also has a pleasant smell without being overpowering and I have had none of the occasioanlly reported problems with stickyness or tangles.

So all in all WOW!

ktani
August 16th, 2010, 03:49 PM
It is from the UK and it is Asda's own brand "Clear Honey" and on the back it says it is a blend of EC and non EC honey. I must say I was surprised at its remarkable effectiveness, it also has a pleasant smell without being overpowering and I have had none of the occasioanlly reported problems with stickyness or tangles.

So all in all WOW!

Yes, honey residue can be a problem and it is unpredictable as to which honeys will leave some that is discernable. I will add your honey to the Successful Honeys List. Thank you! ETA: done and I made a note as to no residue reported.

HuggyBear
August 16th, 2010, 05:09 PM
Just wanted to post some pics of my honey tx results. The second pic is after my 4th honey tx. I know the lighting is a bit different but I can definately tell a huge difference in my hair. Now my hair is so bright & shiny and you can actually the ends of my hair.

ETA:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/album.php?albumid=6070&pictureid=79487

ktani
August 16th, 2010, 05:15 PM
Just wanted to post some pics of my honey tx results. The second pic is after my 4th honey tx. I know the lighting is a bit different but I can definately tell a huge difference in my hair. Now my hair is so shiny and you can actually the ends of my hair.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/album.php?albumid=6070&pictureid=79487

Great new about the treatments and the colour difference! How does your hair feel? Please see if you can fix the pictures. I cannot see them.

HuggyBear
August 16th, 2010, 05:31 PM
Great new about the treatments and the colour difference! How does your hair feel? Please see if you can fix the pictures. I cannot see them.


My hair feels great. It's so smooth & shiny. I absolutely love the color when the sunlight hits it.

ktani
August 16th, 2010, 05:47 PM
My hair feels great. It's so smooth & shiny. I absolutely love the color when the sunlight hits it.

Lighting has been a problem with honey lightening pictures on more than one occassion. However, I can see that your hair has a more even colour and it looks amazing! Your hair is gorgeous! I am also thrilled that you are happy both with the colour change and the conditioning effects.

Now, please share your recipe and method details and the brand and type of honey used to help others. What kind of water did you use and your dilution? All details you can give please.

HuggyBear
August 16th, 2010, 06:22 PM
Ktani - Thank you so much for this thread! I had been looking for a non-damaging, natural way to lighten (brighten) my hair and thanks to you I have found it! :cheese:


Recipe:

1 1/2 cups distilled water
4 TBS. Clover Honey (Stoller's Busy Bee - Bear shaped container)
1 1/2 TBS. Ground Cinnamon
1 TBS. EV Coconut Oil


Method

Mixed ingredients and let sit for 1 hour. Rinsed hair with plain water (had no product in hair). Applied mixture to damp hair and covered with plastic grocery bag and shower cap. Let sit for approximately 1 1/2 hours. Rinsed out and then shampooed & conditioned as normal.

ktani
August 16th, 2010, 06:31 PM
Ktani - Thank you so much for this thread! I had been looking for a non-damaging, natural way to lighten (brighten) my hair and thanks to you I have found it! :cheese:


Recipe:

1 1/2 cups distilled water
4 TBS. Clover Honey (Stoller's Busy Bee - Bear shaped container)
1 1/2 TBS. Ground Cinnamon
1 TBS. EV Coconut Oil


Method

Mixed ingredients and let sit for 1 hour. Rinsed hair with plain water (had no product in hair). Applied mixture to damp hair and covered with plastic grocery bag and shower cap. Let sit for approximately 1 1/2 hours. Rinsed out and then shampooed & conditioned as normal.

Thank you so much for the details and you are most welcome!

Two more questions please.

1. Where are you located? The U.S.?
I cannot tell from the name Stoller's and the Successful Honeys List is by geographical location. I am going to add your post to the Picture's posts too.

2. Is your hair previously dyed or natural before the lightening. I would classify you as a medium blonde before lightening?

Ok, 2.5 questions, lol.

HuggyBear
August 16th, 2010, 07:33 PM
Two more questions please.

1. Where are you located? The U.S.?
I cannot tell from the name Stoller's and the Successful Honeys List is by geographical location. I am going to add your post to the Picture's posts too.

Yes I am in the U.S. The great state of Tennessee to be exact. :)

2. Is your hair previously dyed or natural before the lightening. I would classify you as a medium blonde before lightening?

My hair color is natural. I haven't dyed my hair since 1997. I would say it is med-dark blonde. My ends tend to quite a bit lighter than my rest of my hair.

ktani
August 16th, 2010, 07:34 PM
Two more questions please.

1. Where are you located? The U.S.?
I cannot tell from the name Stoller's and the Successful Honeys List is by geographical location. I am going to add your post to the Picture's posts too.

Yes I am in the U.S. The great state of Tennessee to be exact. :)

2. Is your hair previously dyed or natural before the lightening. I would classify you as a medium blonde before lightening?

My hair color is natural. I haven't dyed my hair since 1997. I would say it is med-dark blonde. My ends tend to quite a bit lighter than my rest of my hair.

Thank you! That is the information I needed. ETA: Your honey has been added to the list and your pictues and posts to the Pictures Post on Blonde Hair and the New Dilution

kabelaced
August 18th, 2010, 09:49 PM
Can honey be used with virgin coconut oil in very wet (just washed) hair as a leave in? Will it lighten the hair anyway?

I read somewhere earlier that someone achieved very smooth and soft hair with honey, so I mixed a teeny squeeze with a ton of coconut oil and slathered it on my head as a leave-in. As a result, my hair feels...different. Remotely sticky. Is anything bad going to happen? :O

ktani
August 19th, 2010, 05:37 AM
Can honey be used with virgin coconut oil in very wet (just washed) hair as a leave in? Will it lighten the hair anyway?

I read somewhere earlier that someone achieved very smooth and soft hair with honey, so I mixed a teeny squeeze with a ton of coconut oil and slathered it on my head as a leave-in. As a result, my hair feels...different. Remotely sticky. Is anything bad going to happen? :O

Honey needs to be diluted with a liquid that contains water to release peroxide. Coconut oil does not contain water. Coconut oil on its own, straight, has not been reported to lighten hair.

You can use either as a leave in. A very small amount of honey, not enough to make hair sticky, has been reported to be fine as a leave-in on damp hair.

Used straight, neither should lighten hair and nothing bad should happen. On very wet hair mixed with the oil, I doubt that the amount of water in your hair would dilute the honey enough, mixed with the oil, to make much of a difference. Honey slowly releases peroxide. As your hair dries the release of the peroxide would stop and you used very little honey.

MandyBeth
August 19th, 2010, 12:03 PM
Well I don't see any changes. Think it's a 2 steps forward 1 step back with the henna.

ktani
August 19th, 2010, 12:45 PM
Well I don't see any changes. Think it's a 2 steps forward 1 step back with the henna.

What is your recipe and method?

MandyBeth
August 19th, 2010, 02:01 PM
1 c distilled water, 3 T local honey, 1 T each of cinnamon ang jojoba oil. Mixed, set for 45 min. Put on damp hair, wrapped up for 2 hours. I think it's with the high dye in the henna.

ktani
August 19th, 2010, 02:03 PM
1 c distilled water, 3 T local honey, 1 T each of cinnamon ang jojoba oil. Mixed, set for 45 min. Put on damp hair, wrapped up for 2 hours. I think it's with the high dye in the henna.

Jojoba oil (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=635023&postcount=889) impeded conventional peroxide from working well in the "peroxide" thread. That is no doubt part of the problem. The rest of the recipe sounds good. You could try increasing the amount of distilled water a bit for that amount of honey.

MandyBeth
August 19th, 2010, 02:15 PM
Ah, I'll retry in a week or so. Thanks!

ktani
August 19th, 2010, 02:21 PM
Ah, I'll retry in a week or so. Thanks!

You are most welcome!

You did not mention your method. A few reminder tips.

Keep the hair very wet throughout the treatment. Saran wrap under a swim cap has been reported to work well and reduce drips.

Extra virgin olive oil can have twice the peroxide value of coconut oil, depending on how pure it is (not a blend of olive oil and extra virgin olive oil). A tablespoon or less is all that is needed for a honey lightening recipe.

MandyBeth
August 19th, 2010, 04:35 PM
I started with damp hair, stuck my head under the tap, then blotted the drips. Cover I wrapped the mess up in plastic wrap tight, then the shower type cap. Evoo I can do, got some already. My hair feels fine still, better than henna at least.

ktani
August 19th, 2010, 04:40 PM
I started with damp hair, stuck my head under the tap, then blotted the drips. Cover I wrapped the mess up in plastic wrap tight, then the shower type cap. Evoo I can do, got some already. My hair feels fine still, better than henna at least.

Your method should work well. Glad to hear your hair feels good.

MandyBeth
August 19th, 2010, 06:38 PM
Can I leave this on too long?

ktani
August 19th, 2010, 06:46 PM
Can I leave this on too long?

Some people prefer a few hours to 1. No worries. It will be fine. Nothing bad will happen.

HuggyBear
August 23rd, 2010, 06:52 PM
Just wanted to post some pics of my honey tx results. The second pic is after my 4th honey tx. I know the lighting is a bit different but I can definately tell a huge difference in my hair. Now my hair is so bright & shiny and you can actually the ends of my hair.

ETA:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/album.php?albumid=6070&pictureid=79487


Just wanted to update my comparison photo. My first attempt wasn't that great. My son helped me with this one after my 5th honey treatment:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=6145&pictureid=80185

ktani
August 23rd, 2010, 06:58 PM
Just wanted to update my comparison photo. My first attempt wasn't that great. My son helped me with this one after my 5th honey treatment:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=6145&pictureid=80185

Lighting can be a tricky issue with pictures.

Thank you for posting these and taking the time and effort to show the difference in your hair colour more clearly.

Your hair looks gorgeous! And significantly lighter and more even in colour, just as you described. I will add your new post to your report. ETA: Done!

HuggyBear
August 23rd, 2010, 08:46 PM
Yes, it's hard to try to get the same lighting in photos so that one can tell the difference since the change in color is subtle. My hair is significantly brighter & lighter. One can definately tell that the ends of my hair have changed dramatically. Even if the color did not change at all, the way this treatment has helped my ends was well worth it.
Thanks again, ktani. :cheese:

ktani
August 23rd, 2010, 08:49 PM
Yes, it's hard to try to get the same lighting in photos so that one can tell the difference since the change in color is subtle. My hair is significantly brighter & lighter. One can definately tell that the ends of my hair have changed dramatically. Even if the color did not change at all, the way this treatment has helped my ends was well worth it.
Thanks again, ktani. :cheese:
My pleasure! I am glad that you are still so pleased with the condition of your hair.

xJennax
August 23rd, 2010, 09:18 PM
I tried my first honey treatment last night.

I used Australian honey and mixed the ratio of 1 table spoon of honey to 6 of bottled water until I got the desired amount. I also put a touch of cinnamon in there and let it sit for an hour. I didn't have a brush or a spray bottle to apply it with so I stuck my head in the bowl and got the mixture all over my wet and wet it. I covered my hair and sat for a little over an hour, it was very difficult to keep it from dripping, I ended up so sticky!

I don't think it lightened my hair, but I did only do it once. I'll probably try it again and I need to read more information about how to achieve the best results.

ktani
August 23rd, 2010, 09:23 PM
I tried my first honey treatment last night.

I used Australian honey and mixed the ratio of 1 table spoon of honey to 6 of bottled water until I got the desired amount. I also put a touch of cinnamon in there and let it sit for an hour. I didn't have a brush or a spray bottle to apply it with so I stuck my head in the bowl and got the mixture all over my wet and wet it. I covered my hair and sat for a little over an hour, it was very difficult to keep it from dripping, I ended up so sticky!

I don't think it lightened my hair, but I did only do it once. I'll probably try it again and I need to read more information about how to achieve the best results.

Welcome to LHC and the Honey thread!

Everything is here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1661&postcount=1) in the first post to help and I am happy to answer any questions. Your recipe and method sound fine. You may want to try distilled water next treatment.

Cumulus
August 28th, 2010, 07:39 AM
Hei!

So I'm thinking of trying out this honey lightening treatment. My ends and the middle section of hair (hair is BSL) has been coloured brown with hair dye and is now hennaed over for about 3 times. So it's kind of deep auburn. But since I now have gone over to the henna-side of life my roots are bound to be more orangey and coppery than the rest of my hair. I would gradually like to get that colour all over but I'm not cutting! The colour differents does not show very much most of the time and since my hair is wavy it kind of gets lost in the waves :P.
So my question is - will the honey lighten off the dark brown dye and leave the red untouched? I do not have most of the honeys here, in fact the only one I found in the store was the Finnish SAM honey. And cardamom gives me a headache, fortunately EVOO and cinnamon don't :)
So I am willing to try it out, for months if that's what it takes. But has anyone had a similar situation to mine? And did it work???

Sincerely,
:)

ktani
August 28th, 2010, 07:49 AM
Hei!

So I'm thinking of trying out this honey lightening treatment. My ends and the middle section of hair (hair is BSL) has been coloured brown with hair dye and is now hennaed over for about 3 times. So it's kind of deep auburn. But since I now have gone over to the henna-side of life my roots are bound to be more orangey and coppery than the rest of my hair. I would gradually like to get that colour all over but I'm not cutting! The colour differents does not show very much most of the time and since my hair is wavy it kind of gets lost in the waves :P.
So my question is - will the honey lighten off the dark brown dye and leave the red untouched? I do not have most of the honeys here, in fact the only one I found in the store was the Finnish SAM honey. And cardamom gives me a headache, fortunately EVOO and cinnamon don't :)
So I am willing to try it out, for months if that's what it takes. But has anyone had a similar situation to mine? And did it work???

Sincerely,
:)

SAM honey has been reported to work very well for honey lightening. If you apply the treatment all through your hair it can lighten all over, not just where you want it to. However, just like doing roots only, you can apply a honey lightening recipe only to the areas you want lightened. It can be tricky but it has been done.

From the first post of this thread, Suggestions for doing roots only (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=296249&postcount=2371), and Creating honey lightening hi-lights (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=578074&postcount=3712) under Recent honey lightening recipe and method innovations

Cumulus
August 28th, 2010, 08:09 AM
Very good news about the honey!
I'll buy some distilled water. And I think I'm going with this recipe I saw somebody write:
1:4 weight of honey and distilled water
1 tbs cinnamon
1/2 tbs EVOO
Let it sit for an hour and then leave it on hair for 2 h
But the puzzle for me is - how much should I make it? Like a cup full altogether?
Hair is BLS and not very thick (actually there's more hair in the root section since it's started to grow back after breastfeeding my second baby. I am still losing much hair every day but it's growing back).
I imagine the mix will be quite a runny liquid?

Thanks so much for answering! :)

ktani
August 28th, 2010, 08:16 AM
Very good news about the honey!
I'll buy some distilled water. And I think I'm going with this recipe I saw somebody write:
1:4 weight of honey and distilled water
1 tbs cinnamon
1/2 tbs EVOO
Let it sit for an hour and then leave it on hair for 2 h
But the puzzle for me is - how much should I make it? Like a cup full altogether?
Hair is BLS and not very thick (actually there's more hair in the root section since it's started to grow back after breastfeeding my second baby. I am still losing much hair every day but it's growing back).
I imagine the mix will be quite a runny liquid?

Thanks so much for answering! :)

My pleasure!

Honey lightening recipes are drippy. That can partially be helped from reports by using plastic wrap under a swim cap and wearing a towel around your neck.

As to how much you should make, the basic recipe is 1 tablespoon honey to 6 tablespoons distilled water, 2 to 12 etc.
I think that it is better to make a larger amount of the recipe when adding a spice to it.

Cumulus
August 28th, 2010, 03:03 PM
I just did my first honey lightening treatment. The cinnamon is REALLY hard to get out, since I'm not using any conditioner. But I couldn't get all the bits and pieces out of my hair, so I had to grab my mom's conditioner to get it out.
I was wondering, if next time I put the cinnamon in and let it sit with the honey and water and oil and then before applying the mixture I drain the cinnamon out? Would that help with the peroxide value? Or should I get some cinnamon EO to substitute?
I can't really say if the first time made any difference to hair colour, 'cause it's night time at the moment but I'm thinking - not so much. I also mixed it with tab water which is pretty hard here.
With the next treatment I'm planning to use distilled water, I just couldn't get it at the moment.
But hair is really soft and I smell like a gingerbreadman - or so my hubby said! :D

ktani
August 28th, 2010, 03:39 PM
I just did my first honey lightening treatment. The cinnamon is REALLY hard to get out, since I'm not using any conditioner. But I couldn't get all the bits and pieces out of my hair, so I had to grab my mom's conditioner to get it out.
I was wondering, if next time I put the cinnamon in and let it sit with the honey and water and oil and then before applying the mixture I drain the cinnamon out? Would that help with the peroxide value? Or should I get some cinnamon EO to substitute?
I can't really say if the first time made any difference to hair colour, 'cause it's night time at the moment but I'm thinking - not so much. I also mixed it with tab water which is pretty hard here.
With the next treatment I'm planning to use distilled water, I just couldn't get it at the moment.
But hair is really soft and I smell like a gingerbreadman - or so my hubby said! :D

Cinnamon EO is a powerful irritant with no peroxide value. I do not recommend it.

You can CO out a honey lightening treatment.

An alternative to helping with the cinnamon problem may be to let the recipe sit for 1 hour to let the peroxide value develop and then filter it or use a fine seive before applying it to your hair. I am glad that your hair is soft and smells good. Wait to see how the colour looks to you and others.

ETA: you may also want to try using an egg wash to emulsify the recipe out as in this post (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1232539&postcount=4389) below.

MandyBeth
August 28th, 2010, 04:14 PM
My report. Honey, distilled water, EVOO, cinnamon and cardamon, on for 2 hours, then rinsed, egg washed most, then shampooed. Then nip soak and lemon rinse. A scant bit lighter, my hair is smooth and glossy, and I smelled herb/spiceish per DF.

ktani
August 28th, 2010, 04:23 PM
My report. Honey, distilled water, EVOO, cinnamon and cardamon, on for 2 hours, then rinsed, egg washed most, then shampooed. Then nip soak and lemon rinse. A scant bit lighter, my hair is smooth and glossy, and I smelled herb/spiceish per DF.

Wonderful! Using the egg wash that way is brilliant! Glad to hear that you got colour and great conditioning results!

What were your recipe proportions?

ETA: I just added your report to the Recent Innovations (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=578074&postcount=3697) post.

MandyBeth
August 28th, 2010, 04:56 PM
1.5 c water, 4 T honey, 1 T of the extras. Let sit for an hour, washed hair, gooped the honey goo in, covered with plastic wrap and swim cap, fell asleep, washed out.

ktani
August 28th, 2010, 04:58 PM
1.5 c water, 4 T honey, 1 T of the extras. Let sit for an hour, washed hair, gooped the honey goo in, covered with plastic wrap and swim cap, fell asleep, washed out.

Thank you! I will add your reply to your report in the Innovations post as well. ETA: Done!

MandyBeth
August 28th, 2010, 05:02 PM
Oh egg wash. 1 whole egg, 2 yolks from very fresh, organic, free range eggs aka my yard. Whipped them frothy, put two glugs EVOO and some water in, whipped. If you did this with more rinsing and no other treatments, that'd be enough I think.

ktani
August 28th, 2010, 05:10 PM
Oh egg wash. 1 whole egg, 2 yolks from very fresh, organic, free range eggs aka my yard. Whipped them frothy, put two glugs EVOO and some water in, whipped. If you did this with more rinsing and no other treatments, that'd be enough I think.

Thank you again. I am going to add this to your Innovations report to make it more complete.

MandyBeth
August 28th, 2010, 05:11 PM
Oh, if I make anything, always used distilled water. Egg wash isn't the standard mix, just what I had on hand, and the fat and oil helped relax the honey goo so it rinsed better.

ktani
August 28th, 2010, 05:16 PM
Oh, if I make anything, always used distilled water. Egg wash isn't the standard mix, just what I had on hand, and the fat and oil helped relax the honey goo so it rinsed better.

There are many egg wash recipes on these boards. This one worked well for you. It is good to have all of the details as to how and why you think this one worked so well. I am adding all of this to to your report in one place in the Recent Innovations Post. That way it is easier to follow for others, who read the first post of this thread. ETA: Done!

MandyBeth
August 28th, 2010, 06:17 PM
Fun fun. I think I'm going to play with weekly nip rinses and bi weekly honey lightening. Don't want major color change, just less demarcation of the roots. But I do love my happy hair!

Heartwillfollow
August 29th, 2010, 12:13 AM
Here are my honey lightening results on my henna hair due to a couple of sloppy root touch ups that caused saturation of the henna.

I used the instruction for honey lightening from LHC, I used the NewZealand Honey 1part honey to 4 parts of water let it sit for an hour. soaked my hair with it covered it with plastic wrap and a thick towel and let it sit on my head for an hour.

I did 6 total individual Honey applications one each day

Before picture
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr348/PatriciafromCO/lightening%20Henna/P1030367.jpg

after 3 Honey applications
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr348/PatriciafromCO/lightening%20Henna/P1030365.jpg

after 6 Honey applications
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr348/PatriciafromCO/lightening%20Henna/P1030373.jpg

Heartwillfollow
August 29th, 2010, 12:37 AM
I am sorry for the large photos ,, :( I resized them and they still came out huge.. will work on fixing that.

ktani
August 29th, 2010, 05:49 AM
I am sorry for the large photos ,, :( I resized them and they still came out huge.. will work on fixing that.

The pictures are fine as they are. Thank you so much for your report. The photos show how you no longer have the burgundy colour of henna saturation and the lighting is excellent. Very well done!

I am adding your report and pictures to the Pictures Posts of hennaed and henndigoed hair and the new dilution. ETA done!

Did you use distilled water or your tap water? Your results are wonderful for just honey and water, with no boosters like the spices or oils. Can you please name the brand and type of honey?

Cumulus
August 29th, 2010, 06:35 AM
So I looked at my hair in daylight and I THINK, it actually is a bit more orangey than burgundy. But I might be picturing it. I did a before photo today and will take one probably after some more treatments to compare the results.
And btw, i also did a catnip soak after the lightening and a lemon rinse and I did not measure the lemon juice exactly - and today my ends are a bit crunchy again. So I guess it's a pretty fine line with the lemon dilution. I will stick with mariika's recipe next time!

Cumulus
August 29th, 2010, 06:39 AM
Here are my honey lightening results on my henna hair due to a couple of sloppy root touch ups that caused saturation of the henna.

I used the instruction for honey lightening from LHC, I used the NewZealand Honey 1part honey to 4 parts of water let it sit for an hour. soaked my hair with it covered it with plastic wrap and a thick towel and let it sit on my head for an hour.

I did 6 total individual Honey applications one each day

Before picture
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr348/PatriciafromCO/lightening%20Henna/P1030367.jpg

after 3 Honey applications
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr348/PatriciafromCO/lightening%20Henna/P1030365.jpg

after 6 Honey applications
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr348/PatriciafromCO/lightening%20Henna/P1030373.jpg

The difference seems so drastic. But I wonder if it's because the last picture is made in direct sunlight and the first one is not?? But great achievement!!
You said you did one treatment everyday, is it ok for you to wash your hair every day?

Best! :)

ktani
August 29th, 2010, 07:32 AM
So I looked at my hair in daylight and I THINK, it actually is a bit more orangey than burgundy. But I might be picturing it. I did a before photo today and will take one probably after some more treatments to compare the results.
And btw, i also did a catnip soak after the lightening and a lemon rinse and I did not measure the lemon juice exactly - and today my ends are a bit crunchy again. So I guess it's a pretty fine line with the lemon dilution. I will stick with mariika's recipe next time!

The crunchy ends could also be a result of honey residue if you did not wash out the honey lightening treatment before the catnip treatment and lemon rinse.

Mariika's recipe (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=53745) is brilliant and it is better in my opinion to err on the side of a bit more water than less if not measuring exactly.

I look forward to your pictures and report. You may want to ask people around you about the colour.

Heartwillfollow
August 29th, 2010, 10:41 AM
The difference seems so drastic. But I wonder if it's because the last picture is made in direct sunlight and the first one is not?? But great achievement!!
You said you did one treatment everyday, is it ok for you to wash your hair every day?

Best! :)

Cumulus I agree lightening and henna is so tricky I did my best to get a good representation of the results.

I did wash my hair with sauve clarifying shampoo and conditioned

Heartwillfollow
August 29th, 2010, 10:45 AM
The pictures are fine as they are. Thank you so much for your report. The photos show how you no longer have the burgundy colour of henna saturation and the lighting is excellent. Very well done!

I am adding your report and pictures to the Pictures Posts of hennaed and henndigoed hair and the new dilution. ETA done!

Did you use distilled water or your tap water? Your results are wonderful for just honey and water, with no boosters like the spices or oils. Can you please name the brand and type of honey?

yes I used distilled water the honey brand name is Manuka

ktani
August 29th, 2010, 10:51 AM
Cumulus I agree lightening and henna is so tricky I did my best to get a good representation of the results.

There is always going to be some variation in lighting with pictures. Very few I have seen use the exact same lighting conditions. That is why I rely more on what people say as opposed to just pictures. Someone reporting sees their hair in all lighting conditions and often reports on real life feedback from friends and family.

However, I can see enough of a difference in the colour contrast in the pictures you posted that tells me of the results in this case.

ktani
August 29th, 2010, 10:54 AM
yes I used distilled water the honey brand name is Manuka

Thank you so much! Manuka is a type of honey. Is there a brand name?

Heartwillfollow
August 29th, 2010, 11:59 AM
Thank you so much! Manuka is a type of honey. Is there a brand name?

I dont remember who or what company packaged it with their lable. just that it was 100% certifed Manuka Honey from New Zealand :o

ktani
August 29th, 2010, 12:04 PM
I dont remember who or what company packaged it with their lable. just that it was 100&#37; certifed Manuka Honey from New Zealand :o

No worries. Not all manuka honeys are equal or have the same peroxide value. Yours was a winner!

Eenanthe
August 29th, 2010, 02:48 PM
I guess I'll finally post here, since I've got my second honey treatment in my head. It all started with "no shampoo" -washing my hair. Honey was mentioned as a great conditioner, then I found out it lightens the hair, then I found this forum......and here we go.

Yesterday I tried to make a 1 part honey, 4 parts water (no distilled water available at this point, I'll have to see, if I can find some at the store though) mix, adding some cinnamon, probably a teaspoon to the cupfull of honey-water mix. I used the cheapest honey available, Xtra Honey (I'm in Finland). I was very impressed to see some honey recommendations for Finland as well, so next time I'll buy SAM honey. :) I let it sit for an hour, then put it on my hair. I wrapped my hair in a wet towel and ended up sitting for two hours with it. After that I rinsed, then rinsed with chamomille, and then rinsed some more with water.

The difference isn't big, but I think I can see some highlights at the roots, which I don't think have been there before - my roots tend to be darker than the tips. My hair is naturally medium brown, depends on the light if it seems medium brown with red tint, or dark brown.

Today I made my second patch, with same honey, now really measuring the honey and water to get it excactly right. Added some chardamon (maybe a teaspoon), let it sit for an hour and now I've got it on my hair inside the wet towel. I'm going to have it on for a bit more than an hour again.

My hair has felt a bit stiff - since I don't use shampoo. So today I'm going to try washing it with chamomille-egg -mix while rinsing off the honey. But overall, my hair looks pretty good dispite the stiffness (and looks a lot thicker than before, nicely poofy).

Curious to see if today's treatment makes any difference. :)

Thanks for the great thread and the amazing amount of info! I've enjoyed reading a lot and I love this experiment I'm having with my hair now. I've never dyed my hair - I like to be as natural as possible. So this "natural hair color altering" is just my thing. :D

ktani
August 29th, 2010, 04:14 PM
I guess I'll finally post here, since I've got my second honey treatment in my head. It all started with "no shampoo" -washing my hair. Honey was mentioned as a great conditioner, then I found out it lightens the hair, then I found this forum......and here we go.

Yesterday I tried to make a 1 part honey, 4 parts water (no distilled water available at this point, I'll have to see, if I can find some at the store though) mix, adding some cinnamon, probably a teaspoon to the cupfull of honey-water mix. I used the cheapest honey available, Xtra Honey (I'm in Finland). I was very impressed to see some honey recommendations for Finland as well, so next time I'll buy SAM honey. :) I let it sit for an hour, then put it on my hair. I wrapped my hair in a wet towel and ended up sitting for two hours with it. After that I rinsed, then rinsed with chamomille, and then rinsed some more with water.

The difference isn't big, but I think I can see some highlights at the roots, which I don't think have been there before - my roots tend to be darker than the tips. My hair is naturally medium brown, depends on the light if it seems medium brown with red tint, or dark brown.

Today I made my second patch, with same honey, now really measuring the honey and water to get it excactly right. Added some chardamon (maybe a teaspoon), let it sit for an hour and now I've got it on my hair inside the wet towel. I'm going to have it on for a bit more than an hour again.

My hair has felt a bit stiff - since I don't use shampoo. So today I'm going to try washing it with chamomille-egg -mix while rinsing off the honey. But overall, my hair looks pretty good dispite the stiffness (and looks a lot thicker than before, nicely poofy).

Curious to see if today's treatment makes any difference. :)

Thanks for the great thread and the amazing amount of info! I've enjoyed reading a lot and I love this experiment I'm having with my hair now. I've never dyed my hair - I like to be as natural as possible. So this "natural hair color altering" is just my thing. :D

You are most welcome!

Chamomile can stain hair a golden colour. It may be masking some of the lightening you may be achieving.

Your recipe and method sound fine. As long as the towel is wet it will not absorb the treatment. Your hair needs to be very wet throughout the treatment process. Your tap water may be fine as well. It depends on its mineral content and pH.

Good luck with this treatment and please update.

MandyBeth
August 29th, 2010, 08:48 PM
Ok, information for anyone who is concerned :) The approximate pricing on honey lightening. This is based on Walmart prices in the midwest as of 8/28/2010, so YMMV...

1 gallon of distilled water - 0.89
A 24 oz bear of Walmart brand honey, dark clover - $4.89. He's got the best price break. Plus I didn't see a smaller bear.
EVOO - it's a little bottle under the name of Gem. It tastes and smells good - $2.00
Cardamon - $1.89
Cinnamon - $1.89

So grand total of $11.56 for all of those, which is less than a box of chemical lightener and the honey is better for your hair :D Also, all of this should last you for several treatments.

ktani
August 29th, 2010, 09:00 PM
Ok, information for anyone who is concerned :) The approximate pricing on honey lightening. This is based on Walmart prices in the midwest as of 8/28/2010, so YMMV...

1 gallon of distilled water - 0.89
A 24 oz bear of Walmart brand honey, dark clover - $4.89. He's got the best price break. Plus I didn't see a smaller bear.
EVOO - it's a little bottle under the name of Gem. It tastes and smells good - $2.00
Cardamon - $1.89
Cinnamon - $1.89

So grand total of $11.56 for all of those, which is less than a box of chemical lightener and the honey is better for your hair :D Also, all of this should last you for several treatments.

Thank you for the cost breakdown. Now I look forward to your latest report results.

MandyBeth
August 30th, 2010, 03:03 PM
Got a question. Does cinnamon have the same risk for allergens as the various cinnamal fragrances, or is it just a similar name?

ktani
August 30th, 2010, 03:16 PM
Got a question. Does cinnamon have the same risk for allergens as the various cinnamal fragrances, or is it just a similar name?

It may. That is why I always advise patch testing the spices first. Even then, from reports, those who used smaller amounts who had no problems, had irritation using larger amounts. Some people seem to be impervious to the irritation it can cause.

It would depend on the fragrance processing and the amount used but here is information on cinnamal (http://www.cosmeticsinfo.org/ingredient_details.php?ingredient_id=1790). It is a very powerful sensitizer. I react to hexyl cinnamal in any amount. I could find no peroxide value for cinnamon oil. There is one for the spice.

MandyBeth
August 30th, 2010, 03:56 PM
It may. That is why I always advise patch testing the spices first. Even then, from reports, those who used smaller amounts who had no problems, had irritation using larger amounts. Some people seem to be impervious to the irritation it can cause.

It would depend on the fragrance processing and the amount used but here is information on cinnamal (http://www.cosmeticsinfo.org/ingredient_details.php?ingredient_id=1790). It is a very powerful sensitizer. I react to hexyl cinnamal in any amount. I could find no peroxide value for cinnamon oil. There is one for the spice.

Hrm, it's not given me hissy fits yet. But I know I can become sensitive to products. I may try a round with cardamon only, see if that works.

ktani
August 30th, 2010, 04:02 PM
Hrm, it's not given me hissy fits yet. But I know I can become sensitive to products. I may try a round with cardamon only, see if that works.

Only 1 or 2 (I lost count and I have not been recording posts the way I used to do) reports of sensitivity to cardamom compared to quite a few for ground cinnamon. The cheapest brand is or was McCormick's ground cardamom. It was reported to work well without problems.

However, everyone is different and can react differently. Please patch test and do not use too much to start.

MandyBeth
August 30th, 2010, 04:14 PM
Only 1 or 2 (I lost count and I have not been recording posts the way I used to do) reports of sensitivity to cardamom compared to quite a few for ground cinnamon. The cheapest brand is or was McCormick's ground cardamom. It was reported to work well without problems.

However, everyone is different and can react differently. Please patch test and do not use too much to start.

Patch tested cardamon with my henna mix and on it's own. That was with more cardamon used also, plus it just smells lovely. I'll give it a try, do another patch test, see how it goes. Don't want to add more allergies to my lovely list.

ktani
August 30th, 2010, 04:16 PM
Patch tested cardamon with my henna mix and on it's own. That was with more cardamon used also, plus it just smells lovely. I'll give it a try, do another patch test, see how it goes. Don't want to add more allergies to my lovely list.

Sounds good! Ground cardamom has a higher peroxide value than ground cinnamon.

Gilly
August 31st, 2010, 02:55 AM
I am sitting here dripping occasionally!
I mixed up 12 tablespoons of distilled water with 2 tablespoons of organic honey.
I am going to order some Jarrah honey when I get paid:cheese:
I have taken some pictures of what my hair was like before (its my rootsI need to get a grip on) and will try and get some done for the after.

I have got about 10 mins left before I rinse it off, or do I shampoo it off???
I am off to read more of this thread to find out!:cheese:

Gilly
August 31st, 2010, 03:43 AM
OK,I have rinsed it off and gone over it with a dryer on cool as I wanted to know if it had worked or not:rolleyes:
I certainly seems lighter, I can still see my roots but they seem a bit more blended now which is good:cheese:
I will take some pics tomorrow at the same time as today to try and get the lighting right, I think I may do it again in a few days.

I asked this in another thread about honey and cassia but I thought I would put it in here too:
Has anyone mixed up the honey and water and left it overnight and applied it the next morning?

MandyBeth
August 31st, 2010, 04:02 AM
Peroxide isn't light stable afaik, thus why it's in the brown bottles. So I don't think that premixing would work.

ktani
August 31st, 2010, 06:10 AM
OK,I have rinsed it off and gone over it with a dryer on cool as I wanted to know if it had worked or not:rolleyes:
I certainly seems lighter, I can still see my roots but they seem a bit more blended now which is good:cheese:
I will take some pics tomorrow at the same time as today to try and get the lighting right, I think I may do it again in a few days.

I asked this in another thread about honey and cassia but I thought I would put it in here too:
Has anyone mixed up the honey and water and left it overnight and applied it the next morning?

Thank you for your report!

You do not need to leave the treatment on overnight. You can leave one on your hair for a few hours as opposed to one though. Some people like to do that and have reported that it works well.

ktani
August 31st, 2010, 06:21 AM
Peroxide isn't light stable afaik, thus why it's in the brown bottles. So I don't think that premixing would work.

While natural peroxide is not stabilized like conventional peroxide, premixing a honey lightening treatment and letting it sit to develop its peroxide level is just fine and recommended. It should not be left to sit in direct sunlight.

Premixing a treatment and letting it sit for one hour is based on the method used by a Food Services Division in the Netherlands method of determining the peroxide value of honey, and that is where the new dilution came from, including using distilled water, no honey with a naturally high level of Vitamin C, and no heating at any time.

From other scientific research, it was determined that different honeys have different peroxide levels that can peak and decline at different rates. However, some people have reported keeping a honey lightening treatment in the fridge for about a day or longer without it being ineffective when used. I do not think a premixed treatment should be kept longer than 24 hours.

I believe the mix should be used if premixed after one hour, or if not premixed, right away.

MandyBeth
August 31st, 2010, 06:44 AM
I read the question as mixing the honey and water, letting it sit overnight, then using it the next day. I've seen a bottle left open overnight not fizz the next day, so that's what I was going from. Thanks for the correct info!

ktani
August 31st, 2010, 06:48 AM
I read the question as mixing the honey and water, letting it sit overnight, then using it the next day. I've seen a bottle left open overnight not fizz the next day, so that's what I was going from. Thanks for the correct info!

You are most welcome!

Conventional peroxide has additives to keep it stable. The bottle in question may have been improperly stored or there may have been other variables. Heat and sunlight can affect stability.

ETA: Since the question was in another thread as well, I just replied to it there too. See this older post (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=119678&postcount=883).

HYDROGEN PEROXIDE SOLUTION 3&#37; (http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/h4070.htm) MSDS
"7. Handling and Storage
Store in a cool, well-ventilated dark area. Protect from freezing. Isolate from incompatible substances. ..."

Gilly
August 31st, 2010, 03:24 PM
Thanks for all you help Ktani, I really appreciate it!
I am going to do it again maybe tomorrow night, I need to get my Jarrah Honey though!!:cheese:
When I rinsed it out last night (I did not shampoo it) it felt wonderful and when it was fully dry it felt so clean and soft, can honey be used as a shampoo as well??
Is there nothing this wonderful stuff can't do????:D

ktani
August 31st, 2010, 03:36 PM
Thanks for all you help Ktani, I really appreciate it!
I am going to do it again maybe tomorrow night, I need to get my Jarrah Honey though!!:cheese:
When I rinsed it out last night (I did not shampoo it) it felt wonderful and when it was fully dry it felt so clean and soft, can honey be used as a shampoo as well??
Is there nothing this wonderful stuff can't do????:D

You are most welcome!

Honey is not a cleanser and I do not recommend it as a substitute for shampoo.

People have reported adding honey to their shampoo and being pleased with the results.

Your report indicates that the honey you used left no residue. Great news about the condition of your hair. To help others, I am now recording honeys that do not leave a discernible residue as well as lighten hair in the Successful Honeys List.

Please name the brand and type of honey you used.

Henrietta
September 2nd, 2010, 08:52 AM
Disaster... What made me try it again? Am I insane...? I have just put honey on my hair. It's the second take. The first one was a total disaster. I mixed honey (it was really dense, practically stable) with coconut oil and I put it on my hair. It became stable and almost impossible to wash out. I told myself I will never try it again or at least I won't use the same kind of honey. Maybe some clear and liquid one instead. And today I tried it again with pure honey, without adding any oils. I put some into a metal bowl and placed the bowl in a pot with hot water. Honey became liquid and clear, I went to the bathroom and I started putting it on my hair. Just when I puy my fingers into the bowl I knew that though the honey is liquid and clear it's still extremely sticky. But I hoped it would behave better on my hair. No. It was as bad as before. I didn't want to waste the honey so I decided to put it at least on my ends. But the ends was totally glued and I didin't know what to do with them. How to wear my hair until the night? Brilliant idea came late- I added runny conditioner to the honey. It blended well. I don't know whether putting conditioner on dry hair is a good idea or not but I had no choice. The honey itself was too dense and sticky. Seems like it doesn't matter if it's warmed or mixed with something thin, like coconut oil. Oh,wait... Coconut oil is stable normally too. So it wasn't good idea to mix this two ingredients. I am terrified when I am recalling the first honey treatment. But now I know where I made the mistake.
Maybe it's not that bad this time? I have to calm down. Conditioner seems to thin down the honey well. It's not a hair glue anymore and it seems like it won't become a concrete even after getting cold. I hope it will work, I mean- I hope the condish won't kill honey's properties. Maybe I have just discovered how to work with honey on my hair?

ktani
September 2nd, 2010, 09:05 AM
Disaster... What made me try it again? Am I insane...? I have just put honey on my hair. It's the second take. The first one was a total disaster. I mixed honey (it was really dense, practically stable) with coconut oil and I put it on my hair. It became stable and almost impossible to wash out. I told myself I will never try it again ot at least I won't use the same kind of honey. Maybe some clear and liquid one instead. And today I tried it again with pure honey, without any oils. I put some into a metal bowl and placed the bowl in a pot with hot water. Honey became liquid and clear, I went to the bathroom and I started putting it on my hair. Just when I puy my fingers into the bowl I knew that though the honey is liquid and clear it's still extremely sticky. But I hoped it would behave better on my hair. No. It was as bad as before. I didn't want to waste the honey so I decided to put it at least on my ends. But the ends was totally glued and I didin't know what to do with them. How to wear my hair until the night? Brilliant idea came late- I added runny conditioner to the honey. It blended well. I don't know whether putting conditioner on dry hair is a good idea or not but I had no choice. The honey itself was too dense and sticky. Seems like it doesn't matter if it's warmed or mixed with something thin, like coconut oil. Oh, coconut oil is stable usually too. So it wasn't good idea to mix this two ingredients. I am terrified when I am recalling the first honey treatment.
Maybe it's not that bad this time? I have to calm down. Conditioner seems to thin down the honey well. It's not a hair glue anymore and it seems like it won't become a concrete even after getting cold. I hope it will work, I mean- I hope the condish won't kill honey's properties. Maybe I have just discovered how to work with honey on my hair?

Ok, first breathe. Then count to 10. All will be well.

Honey is very sticky and used on dry hair or undiluted with oil, I can see how you wound up feeling like you do.

Runny conditioner can help. Rinse your hair very, very well with warm, not hot water. A vinegar rinse can help but if the honey in question leaves enough residue and it sounds linke the one you used can, you are best to use shampoo to get it out of your hair. If you do not shampoo, try clarifying with something you do use.

For conditioning, a 2 to one ratio of conditioner to honey can and has been reported work well. You can microwave the honey separately first, to avoid the possibility of it lightening your hair. Microwave the honey for 30 seconds to under 1 minute and let it cool before using.

Using conditioner with honey is no longer recommended for honey lightening. While it has been reported to work, it has been reported to take much longer to do so than using the new dilution with distilled water. Some conditioners can impede lightening from happening, the same way overconditioning the hair can interfere with conventional dye and lightening with conventional peroxide.

For honey lightening, the ratio of honey to distilled water is 1 tablespoon honey to 6 tablespoons distilled water, for the basic recipe.

To use honey as a leave-in, the tinest bit rubbed between your hands then applied to damp or dry hair has been reported to work well. I mean the tiniest bit, not enough to make hair sticky. Without enough constant water, the honey will not produce peroxide.

Henrietta
September 2nd, 2010, 10:06 AM
Ok, first breathe. Then count to 10. All will be well.

Honey is very sticky and used on dry hair or undiluted with oil, I can see how you wound up feeling like you do.

Runny conditioner can help. Rinse your hair very, very well with warm, not hot water. A vinegar rinse can help but if the honey in question leaves enough residue and it sounds linke the one you used can, you are best to use shampoo to get it out of your hair. If you do not shampoo, try clarifying with something you do use.

For conditioning, a 2 to one ratio of conditioner to honey can and has been reported work well. You can microwave the honey separately first, to avoid the possibility of it lightening your hair. Microwave the honey for 30 seconds to under 1 minute and let it cool before using.

Using conditioner with honey is no longer recommended for honey lightening. While it has been reported to work, it has been reported to take much longer to do so than using the new dilution with distilled water. Some conditioners can impede lightening from happening, the same way overconditioning the hair can interfere with conventional dye and lightening with conventional peroxide.

For honey lightening, the ratio of honey to distilled water is 1 tablespoon honey to 6 tablespoons distilled water, for the basic recipe.

To use honey as a leave-in, the tinest bit rubbed between your hands then applied to damp or dry hair has been reported to work well. I mean the tiniest bit, not enough to make hair sticky. Without enough constant water, the honey will not produce peroxide.

Thank you :flower: I am not panicked anymore... I'm not afraid of trying to wash if off as I know it will be easy and I am inspired to use honey again if my hair will like it;) Thank you once again :flower:

ktani
September 2nd, 2010, 10:24 AM
Thank you :flower: I am not panicked anymore... I'm not afraid of trying to wash if off as I know it will be easy and I am inspired to use honey again if my hair will like it;) Thank you once again :flower:

You are most welcome!

With the amount of honey you used it may take more than one shampoo to get all of the residue off your hair. It will wash out. Use runny conditioner to follow the washing first before any deep conditioning. Runny conditioner contains more water and can help with slip.

For the future remember:

For conditioning, 2 to 1 conditioner to honey, and you can add 1 tablespoon or less of coconut oil or olive oil or any other non-coating oil (less chance of build-up). Microwave the honey 30 to 60 seconds first and separately to avoid any possibility of it lightening your hair if you do not want that to happen.

For honey lightening, 1 tablespoon honey to 6 tablespoons distilled water, 2 to 12 etc. and you can add 1 tablespoon or less of extra virgin olive oil or coconut oil and up to 2 tablespoons to start, of either ground cinnamon or ground cardamom (or 1 tabespoon of each), after patch testing the spices. More than 1 tablespoon of oil can make the hair too oily. If it does, a conditioner wash can help resolve that.

hmmm
September 4th, 2010, 09:07 AM
Okay so I tried this today. I put a couple of broken cinnamon sticks into the 1:6 mixture, because I didn't have any ground cinnamon in the house. It smells really nice :p
But there has to be an easy way of putting it on your head! I used a mister bottle and it took forever to get my head wet!! I should probably have just poured it on my head... how do you do it?

My hair is hennaed countless number of times, so I'm not expecting to see any lightening effects yet, but I'll keep taking pictures and hopefully it'll show up after a few times of doing it.

Henrietta
September 4th, 2010, 09:49 AM
I finished the honey experiment. It seems like honey doesn't work for me... I cannot notice any improvement in condition of my hair. Ok, I know it's impossible to notice after just one application. But my hair is dry and tends to tangle. A lot. I am not sure if I am patient enough for another application. Probably eventually it would do something good for my hair. But it takes too much. Dryness and tangles...
It made me... sad? I thought I found an easy treatment, but it looks like I have to continue searching. Maybe it's just like with CO, cones... not everything works for everyone. There's nothing wrong with me I hope. Honey just doesn't work for my hair...

ktani
September 4th, 2010, 10:47 AM
Okay so I tried this today. I put a couple of broken cinnamon sticks into the 1:6 mixture, because I didn't have any ground cinnamon in the house. It smells really nice :p
But there has to be an easy way of putting it on your head! I used a mister bottle and it took forever to get my head wet!! I should probably have just poured it on my head... how do you do it?

My hair is hennaed countless number of times, so I'm not expecting to see any lightening effects yet, but I'll keep taking pictures and hopefully it'll show up after a few times of doing it.

Thank you for your report! I hope that you are pleasantly surprised.

From the first post of the thread, for future reference.
"Apply the treatment with a tint, blush, basting brush, spray or squirt bottle, pin the hair up, cover the hair with plastic and keep the treatment on the hair for about 1 hour. The hair must be kept completely wet with the treatment both before it is covered and while the treatment is on the hair. Wearing a swim cap is recommended. Also recommened, is to use saran wrap under a lycra swim cap. It does not squeeze out too much water and the treatment does not drip as much with this method. An updated post (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=578074&postcount=3712) of honey lightening innovations. Using a towel moist enough to keep hair wet has also been reported to work well and reduce drips."
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

I look forward to your results!

ktani
September 4th, 2010, 10:53 AM
I finished the honey experiment. It seems like honey doesn't work for me... I cannot notice any improvement in condition of my hair. Ok, I know it's impossible to notice after just one application. But my hair is dry and tends to tangle. A lot. I am not sure if I am patient enough for another application. Probably eventually it would do something good for my hair. But it takes too much. Dryness and tangles...
It made me... sad? I thought I found an easy treatment, but it looks like I have to continue searching. Maybe it's just like with CO, cones... not everything works for everyone. There's nothing wrong with me I hope. Honey just doesn't work for my hair...

Not everything is for everyone and that is no problem.

It sounds as if the honey you used was not the best choice for this type of experimenting. It also sounds as if you may still have some honey residue in your hair.

For conditioning, you may want to consider this recipe (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128) with a different honey. Microwave the honey separately for the 30 to 60 seconds the same way you would for the 2 to 1 conditioner to honey ratio. There is less honey in the recipe and it is very popular.

MandyBeth
September 4th, 2010, 08:43 PM
Used cardamon only today with my mix. Patch tested fine, but grrr, mild irritation from cinnamon. On for 90 mintues. Color doesn't photograph diff, I think mild change. Minimal if any root change.

ktani
September 4th, 2010, 09:12 PM
Used cardamon only today with my mix. Patch tested fine, but grrr, mild irritation from cinnamon. On for 90 mintues. Color doesn't photograph diff, I think mild change. Minimal if any root change.

Honey lightening can be tricky with henna. It has been reported to work well. It may be your honey. Do not be concerned about pictures.

You see your hair colour in all lighting and those around you do too. I hope that you get the change in colour you want.

You may want to consider using more than one booster at a time, I suggest evoo. It can have a higher peroxide value than coconut oil, depending on whether it is pure evoo and not a blend of olive oil and evoo.

MandyBeth
September 4th, 2010, 10:39 PM
I use 1 TBS of evoo and 2 of cardamon. My hair feels soft but off. Going to egg wash tomorrow. Yeah, have to grow the henna out, trying to kill the stripey look some.

ktani
September 4th, 2010, 11:04 PM
I use 1 TBS of evoo and 2 of cardamon. My hair feels soft but off. Going to egg wash tomorrow. Yeah, have to grow the henna out, trying to kill the stripey look some.

Sounds good. If you are using distilled water, which I believe you are then it comes down to the honey. Some just have a higher peroxide value.

Honey lightening is not as quick as using Sun-In with a coconut oil or coconut and argan oil pre-treatment. However, the risk of a honey lightening treatment lightening causing any hair damage is 0 from all reports to date, in all 5 Honey threads including this one, no matter how many treatments are done, over any time period, or how long a honey lightening treatment is left on the hair.

Gilly
September 5th, 2010, 02:51 AM
You are most welcome!

Honey is not a cleanser and I do not recommend it as a substitute for shampoo.

People have reported adding honey to their shampoo and being pleased with the results.

Your report indicates that the honey you used left no residue. Great news about the condition of your hair. To help others, I am now recording honeys that do not leave a discernible residue as well as lighten hair in the Successful Honeys List.

Please name the brand and type of honey you used.

OK, the honey I used was just Coles (Australian supermarket) own brand Organic honey, I followed the standard recipe 12/2 and left it to brew for one hour tyhen applied it to my head and dripped my way through the waiting time, overall I am happy with the result, it has made my regrowth look much less noticable and I really think that with maybe another 2 treatments the roots will have totally blended!:cheese:
I hope this helps someone!

hmmm
September 5th, 2010, 04:10 AM
Thank you for your report! I hope that you are pleasantly surprised.

From the first post of the thread, for future reference.
"Apply the treatment with a tint, blush, basting brush, spray or squirt bottle, pin the hair up, cover the hair with plastic and keep the treatment on the hair for about 1 hour. The hair must be kept completely wet with the treatment both before it is covered and while the treatment is on the hair. Wearing a swim cap is recommended. Also recommened, is to use saran wrap under a lycra swim cap. It does not squeeze out too much water and the treatment does not drip as much with this method. An updated post (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=578074&postcount=3712) of honey lightening innovations. Using a towel moist enough to keep hair wet has also been reported to work well and reduce drips."
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

I look forward to your results!

Thanks ktani, I'll try the brush thing next time. It dripped everywhere cos I didn't use a swim cap though, but it stayed quite wet under the saran wrap.

I like how my hair feels now, I think I'll do it again even if there aren't any noticeable lightening results. I can braid much easier without oiling, which is a nice change.

Here are the before and after pictures. I can't see any lightening unless I compare pictures, but I was expecting something like that. I guess after multiple applications I'll get back to my old dark brown.

Before:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_okImzkPpo20/TINUUfLlHNI/AAAAAAAAAhw/FQqLmGWCtkM/s512/24082010299.jpg

After:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_okImzkPpo20/TINUclMSmLI/AAAAAAAAAhw/4mlcbGpiOjQ/s512/05092010330.jpg

Also, does this mixture keep well? I have some left over from last time and I was wondering if it might go bad. It doesn't seem likely, seeing as it's honey, though.

ETA I used Dabur honey, which is a local runny darkish sweet honey. Maybe you want to add it to the successful honeys list?

ktani
September 5th, 2010, 06:20 AM
OK, the honey I used was just Coles (Australian supermarket) own brand Organic honey, I followed the standard recipe 12/2 and left it to brew for one hour tyhen applied it to my head and dripped my way through the waiting time, overall I am happy with the result, it has made my regrowth look much less noticable and I really think that with maybe another 2 treatments the roots will have totally blended!:cheese:
I hope this helps someone!

Thank you for your reply!

I am sure that it will help someone. Great news on your results! ETA: I added the honey you used to the Successful Honeys List.

ktani
September 5th, 2010, 06:32 AM
Thanks ktani, I'll try the brush thing next time. It dripped everywhere cos I didn't use a swim cap though, but it stayed quite wet under the saran wrap.

I like how my hair feels now, I think I'll do it again even if there aren't any noticeable lightening results. I can braid much easier without oiling, which is a nice change.

Here are the before and after pictures. I can't see any lightening unless I compare pictures, but I was expecting something like that. I guess after multiple applications I'll get back to my old dark brown.

Before:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_okImzkPpo20/TINUUfLlHNI/AAAAAAAAAhw/FQqLmGWCtkM/s512/24082010299.jpg

After:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_okImzkPpo20/TINUclMSmLI/AAAAAAAAAhw/4mlcbGpiOjQ/s512/05092010330.jpg

Also, does this mixture keep well? I have some left over from last time and I was wondering if it might go bad. It doesn't seem likely, seeing as it's honey, though.

ETA I used Dabur honey, which is a local runny darkish sweet honey. Maybe you want to add it to the successful honeys list?

Thank you for the report and the pictures! It looks like there has been some lightening. I need you to confirm this though from you seeing your hair in other lighting and through feedback from those around you before I will add the honey you used to the list, as you are still unsure of the results.

Great news on the condition of your hair!

I do not recommend keeping any left over treatment longer than 24 hours, refridgerated. Even then because different honeys have different peak and decline rates for their peroxide levels, there is no way to know if the mix will still be as effective next time. It may or may not be.

I cannot predict how many treatments it may take for you to get the results you are after.

hmmm
September 5th, 2010, 10:50 AM
Thank you for the report and the pictures! It looks like there has been some lightening. I need you to confirm this though from you seeing your hair in other lighting and through feedback from those around you before I will add the honey you used to the list, as you are still unsure of the results.

Great news on the condition of your hair!

I do not recommend keeping any left over treatment longer than 24 hours, refridgerated. Even then because different honeys have different peak and decline rates for their peroxide levels, there is no way to know if the mix will still be as effective next time. It may or may not be.

I cannot predict how many treatments it may take for you to get the results you are after.

Thanks for the reply. I do see some subtle lightening effects, but probably because I'm obsessing over it and looking for them so hard :lol:

I doubt that other people will notice so soon.

I'll be doing another treatment next week, I'll report on that with pictures as well.

Do you know how egg yolk affects the peroxide levels? I didn't see a link for that in the first post...

ktani
September 5th, 2010, 11:17 AM
Thanks for the reply. I do see some subtle lightening effects, but probably because I'm obsessing over it and looking for them so hard :lol:

I doubt that other people will notice so soon.

I'll be doing another treatment next week, I'll report on that with pictures as well.

Do you know how egg yolk affects the peroxide levels? I didn't see a link for that in the first post...

You are most welcome!

I would not use egg yolk in a honey lightening treatment. It coats the hair and can be used to help wash out a honey lightening treatment, like CO'ing can be used to do the same thing. Egg yolk has been used in a honey lightening recipe and the reported results were not that great. I look forward to your updates.

Bunnyears
September 5th, 2010, 07:11 PM
Hello board and Ktani! I have a question regarding Shikyo's method of submerging the whole head in a big bowl of honey/water dilution. Do you actually have to keep the hair submerged in that bowl or basin for the duration of the whole hour, or is this just another way to apply the honey mixture and then pin and do the saran wrap? Keeping the whole head in a basin while lying down does seem like an effective way to keep the water from evaporating, especially on the roots (which I haven't been able to keep wet even under a swimming cap, or with continued misting.) Could this work or does the oxidation have to happen when the wet hair is exposed to air? Thanks in advance!

ktani
September 5th, 2010, 07:35 PM
Hello board and Ktani! I have a question regarding Shikyo's method of submerging the whole head in a big bowl of honey/water dilution. Do you actually have to keep the hair submerged in that bowl or basin for the duration of the whole hour, or is this just another way to apply the honey mixture and then pin and do the saran wrap? Keeping the whole head in a basin while lying down does seem like an effective way to keep the water from evaporating, especially on the roots (which I haven't been able to keep wet even under a swimming cap, or with continued misting.) Could this work or does the oxidation have to happen when the wet hair is exposed to air? Thanks in advance!

Hi there! It has been a while.

Read the 3rd and 4th link in her report for the details, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=578074&postcount=3712.

It is the water that allows honey to generate peroxide. The hair is under plastic usually with a treatment, and is not exposed to air in the way you mean.

In the honey on wounds research, the wound is covered in honey and then covered with a bandage. The wound fluids keep the honey generating peroxide.

Shikyo's innovative method just may be the answer you seek!

MandyBeth
September 5th, 2010, 08:02 PM
I think honey is doing something. The hot red in the henna is down, so it's going to blend more.

ktani
September 5th, 2010, 08:04 PM
I think honey is doing something. The hot red in the henna is down, so it's going to blend more.

You go girl! Fantastic news.

MandyBeth
September 5th, 2010, 08:31 PM
Yeah, didn't see the change inside. But outside very nice.

ktani
September 5th, 2010, 08:41 PM
Yeah, didn't see the change inside. But outside very nice.

The mysteries of lighting, lol.

MandyBeth
September 5th, 2010, 08:55 PM
Curse flourescent lights :D Got home and inside with the LEDs it's ok also.

ktani
September 5th, 2010, 08:57 PM
Curse flourescent lights :D Got home and inside with the LEDs it's ok also.

Hopefully soon, all lighting will show you the change in colour you want.

hmmm
September 6th, 2010, 03:48 AM
You are most welcome!

I would not use egg yolk in a honey lightening treatment. It coats the hair and can be used to help wash out a honey lightening treatment, like CO'ing can be used to do the same thing. Egg yolk has been used in a honey lightening recipe and the reported results were not that great. I look forward to your updates.

Thanks for the info, I think I'll use the leftover solution with an egg wash. I have to use it up somehow :D

ktani
September 6th, 2010, 05:25 AM
Thanks for the info, I think I'll use the leftover solution with an egg wash. I have to use it up somehow :D

You are most welcome!

Eenanthe
September 9th, 2010, 04:13 AM
Hello there! I'm back to report some actual progress. I've now had a honey treatment in my head 4 times - each time pretty much the same mix of one cup of water with 3 table spoons of honey (I checked the amount of water with table spoon so that cup works well) + some cinnamon (used once cardamon). I've used Extra honey and SAM Honey (Finland).

After 2 treatments I quit seeing progress and decided I'd just keep on using it as a conditioner. I actually got over one VERY bad hair day (I'm no-shampoo) with the honey treatment - somehow it helped my hair to reach the balance again after being super sticky and...yucky! Washing did nothing at that point, but 2 hours of honey and then washing helped.

After the fourth treatment I realised that my roots are the same color as the tips of my hair - so there actually had to be a color difference, since my roots used to be darker. Though not big, I thought.

Well, yesterday a friend of mine I haven't seen in a month or so came to visit. We'd been chatting for a while when all of a sudden she asked:
"Is your hair lighter or do I just imagine it?"

:cheese: So it HAS actually done something to my hair color and the difference actually shows!!!

So right now my "no-shampoo with honey treatments" is going very well - my hair feels wonderfully soft and looks good and smells softly nice. I'm happy. :) I think I'll keep on with the honey, probably not as often though as in the start - maybe once a week as a deep conditioner (and I don't mind if it goes a tad lighter still :p).

ktani
September 9th, 2010, 05:49 AM
Hello there! I'm back to report some actual progress. I've now had a honey treatment in my head 4 times - each time pretty much the same mix of one cup of water with 3 table spoons of honey (I checked the amount of water with table spoon so that cup works well) + some cinnamon (used once cardamon). I've used Extra honey and SAM Honey (Finland).

After 2 treatments I quit seeing progress and decided I'd just keep on using it as a conditioner. I actually got over one VERY bad hair day (I'm no-shampoo) with the honey treatment - somehow it helped my hair to reach the balance again after being super sticky and...yucky! Washing did nothing at that point, but 2 hours of honey and then washing helped.

After the fourth treatment I realised that my roots are the same color as the tips of my hair - so there actually had to be a color difference, since my roots used to be darker. Though not big, I thought.

Well, yesterday a friend of mine I haven't seen in a month or so came to visit. We'd been chatting for a while when all of a sudden she asked:
"Is your hair lighter or do I just imagine it?"

:cheese: So it HAS actually done something to my hair color and the difference actually shows!!!

So right now my "no-shampoo with honey treatments" is going very well - my hair feels wonderfully soft and looks good and smells softly nice. I'm happy. :) I think I'll keep on with the honey, probably not as often though as in the start - maybe once a week as a deep conditioner (and I don't mind if it goes a tad lighter still :p).

A belated welcome to LHC and the Honey thread (I forgot to welcome you in my reply to your first post).

Thank you for the update and your report. I am so happy that you got the results you were after and that the condition of your hair is so good.

It is always helpful to get feedback from others in real life as to colour hair colour changes.

What are you washing out the treatment with?

dreamy10
September 9th, 2010, 08:06 AM
this is interesting stuff. wow, who knew?

RachelRain
September 9th, 2010, 08:54 PM
You are most welcome!

Honey is not a cleanser and I do not recommend it as a substitute for shampoo.

People have reported adding honey to their shampoo and being pleased with the results.

Your report indicates that the honey you used left no residue. Great news about the condition of your hair. To help others, I am now recording honeys that do not leave a discernible residue as well as lighten hair in the Successful Honeys List.

Please name the brand and type of honey you used.

New here, but I've been sort of following some of this for a while. I do a honey-vinegar rinse and a straight honey rinse (probably triple the honey and much less water) on shower days. Plus I've been using a bit of honey with coconut oil as a leave in. It's helped a LOT with the frizz, although there's still quite a bit.

I had a couple question about putting honey in the shampoos.

1. Is there a specific shampoo to honey ratio?
2. Will it go bad, because shampoo lasts me forever.
and 3. If I put honey straight into the bottle of conditioner, will it go bad?

Thx in advance if you have any answers for any of that :)

ktani
September 9th, 2010, 09:09 PM
New here, but I've been sort of following some of this for a while. I do a honey-vinegar rinse and a straight honey rinse (probably triple the honey and much less water) on shower days. Plus I've been using a bit of honey with coconut oil as a leave in. It's helped a LOT with the frizz, although there's still quite a bit.

I had a couple question about putting honey in the shampoos.

1. Is there a specific shampoo to honey ratio?
2. Will it go bad, because shampoo lasts me forever.
and 3. If I put honey straight into the bottle of conditioner, will it go bad?

Thx in advance if you have any answers for any of that :)

Welcome to the honey thread!

1. Not that I know of from reports. The reports were in other threads and were experinents.
2. Adding honey to shampoo should not make the product go off because you are not adding water to it. It can generate peroxide though. That would peak and decline according to the specific honey.

A much better idea would be to pour some shampoo into your hand and add the honey to it as you are about to use it. The same would apply to conditioner. Less waste, no worring about lightening if you do not want it, provided that the conditioner mix is not on your hair longer than about 10 minutes. Honey slowly releases peroxide when diluted with a product that contains water.

RachelRain
September 9th, 2010, 09:26 PM
Welcome to the honey thread!

1. Not that I know of from reports. The reports were in other threads and were experinents.
2. Adding honey to shampoo should not make the product go off because you are not adding water to it. It can generate peroxide though. That would peak and decline according to the specific honey.

A much better idea would be to pour some shampoo into your hand and add the honey to it as you are about to use it. The same would apply to conditioner. Less waste, no worring about lightening if you do not want it, provided that the conditioner mix is not on your hair longer than about 10 minutes. Honey slowly releases peroxide when diluted with a product that contains water.

ty! and yeah, I'm not actually worried about lightening. It varies anyways based on how much sun I let it see.

I was considering putting it in a shallow bowl and mixing it around... my boyfriend really does not need to know the 'weird' things I put in my hair. As it is he won't zip his lip about the vinegar rinse. :D I'll try it and see what happens, but it won't be for another couple days.

ktani
September 9th, 2010, 09:31 PM
ty! and yeah, I'm not actually worried about lightening. It varies anyways based on how much sun I let it see.

I was considering putting it in a shallow bowl and mixing it around... my boyfriend really does not need to know the 'weird' things I put in my hair. As it is he won't zip his lip about the vinegar rinse. :D I'll try it and see what happens, but it won't be for another couple days.

I suggest not making more that you need of either the shampoo or conditioner mix than you would use at one time. Mixing in a bowl is fine.

Good luck and please update!

RachelRain
September 9th, 2010, 09:34 PM
I suggest not making more that you need of either the shampoo or conditioner mix than you would use at one time.

Good luck and please update!

Oh no, I wouldn't be doing that if I used the bowl... I use huuuuuge amounts of conditioner (like... almost 1/5th of a 33oz bottle... otherwise it's a rat's nest) , that was all I meant. It might be easier just mixing it around the one time instead of trying to handle two different bottles with slick hands. Sorry for the confusion.

And I will. I figure I'll have time to scour the boards for ideas before my next scrubby day. :)

ktani
September 9th, 2010, 09:38 PM
Oh no, I wouldn't be doing that if I used the bowl... I use huuuuuge amounts of conditioner (like... almost 1/5th of a 33oz bottle... otherwise it's a rat's nest) , that was all I meant. It might be easier just mixing it around the one time instead of trying to handle two different bottles with slick hands. Sorry for the confusion.

And I will. I figure I'll have time to scour the boards for ideas before my next scrubby day. :)

The potential problem if you make large batches is that your honey may leave a residue you will most probably need to remove with shampoo, minus honey. Keep that in mind.

RachelRain
September 9th, 2010, 09:44 PM
The potential problem if you make large batches is that your honey may leave a residue you will most probably need to remove with shampoo, minus honey. Keep that in mind.

Oh. Good to know! Thank you for that. I'll try maybe half a tablespoon with the conditioner at first, and we'll see how that goes. I'll have to think about the shampoo, since I really don't use much of it at all.

ktani
September 9th, 2010, 09:46 PM
Oh. Good to know! Thank you for that. I'll try maybe half a tablespoon with the conditioner at first, and we'll see how that goes. I'll have to think about the shampoo, since I really don't use much of it at all.

It depends on the honey used. It is something to be aware of though.

RachelRain
September 9th, 2010, 09:52 PM
It depends on the honey used. It is something to be aware of though.

Thanks.

I need to pick some more up anyways, so I'll be printing out that list and seeing if any of it is carried in my area. I know a lot of the honey around here is locally produced, so I may have to pick some of that up just to see what it does.

I'm all for a couple bad hair days in the name of hair science. :)

ktani
September 9th, 2010, 09:57 PM
Thanks.

I need to pick some more up anyways, so I'll be printing out that list and seeing if any of it is carried in my area. I know a lot of the honey around here is locally produced, so I may have to pick some of that up just to see what it does.

I'm all for a couple bad hair days in the name of hair science. :)

Honey residue will wash out. It may take more than 1 shampoo and a lot of rinsing. A vinegar rinse can help. From reports though, shampoo works best. You do not have to spend a lot of money on a honey.

Read this too, on which types of honeys to avoid, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=295895&postcount=2370 for lightening.

princessp
September 24th, 2010, 05:08 PM
How do you deal with the mixture being so liquid? I mixed the H20 to honey w/ cardamon according to the new ratios and this stuff is like water. I tried applying it with the pastry brush, but it was maddening. So I just dipped my whole head in the bowl of mixture then poured the rest on top. I'm hoping I got everything (it is on my head now). I am trying to lighten (for the first time) over hennaed hair.

ktani
September 24th, 2010, 05:13 PM
How do you deal with the mixture being so liquid? I mixed the H20 to honey w/ cardamon according to the new ratios and this stuff is like water. I tried applying it with the pastry brush, but it was maddening. So I just dipped my whole head in the bowl of mixture then poured the rest on top. I'm hoping I got everything (it is on my head now). I am trying to lighten (for the first time) over hennaed hair.

From the first post,
"The hair must be kept completely wet with the treatment both before it is covered and while the treatment is on the hair. Wearing a swim cap is recommended. Also recommened, is to use saran wrap under a lycra swim cap. It does not squeeze out too much water and the treatment does not drip as much with this method. An updated post (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=578074&postcount=3712) of honey lightening innovations. Using a towel moist enough to keep hair wet has also been reported to work well and reduce drips."
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

princessp
September 24th, 2010, 05:29 PM
From the first post,
"The hair must be kept completely wet with the treatment both before it is covered and while the treatment is on the hair. Wearing a swim cap is recommended. Also recommened, is to use saran wrap under a lycra swim cap. It does not squeeze out too much water and the treatment does not drip as much with this method. An updated post (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=578074&postcount=3712) of honey lightening innovations. Using a towel moist enough to keep hair wet has also been reported to work well and reduce drips."
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=134083&postcount=1096

Yes, I read that post. Maybe my question was not clear. My question is how do you deal with the liquid mixture since it is so watery in terms of actually getting it on your head evenly?

ETA: I tried the brush and frankly it felt futile.

ktani
September 24th, 2010, 05:45 PM
Yes, I read that post. Maybe my question was not clear. My question is how do you deal with the liquid mixture since it is so watery in terms of actually getting it on your head evenly?

ETA: I tried the brush and frankly it felt futile.

Ah, I did misunderstand you. My apologies. Some people like to use a spray bottle. You would need to set it on wide spray not fine because of the ground cardamom. It may help you gain more application control with that method.

princessp
September 24th, 2010, 06:35 PM
Thanks so much!

ktani
September 24th, 2010, 06:43 PM
Thanks so much!

My pleasure!

MandyBeth
September 25th, 2010, 08:56 AM
To get it on, I do the dunk and pour method. My ends need the lightening more, so I don't worry about the first 2 inches or so.

ktani
September 25th, 2010, 09:01 AM
To get it on, I do the dunk and pour method. My ends need the lightening more, so I don't worry about the first 2 inches or so.

If it works for you, that is great! That is what it is about.

celeste116
September 26th, 2010, 08:01 AM
Hello, I have a question, instead of using ground cinnamon can be used cinnamon essential oil?. Thanks very much.
(sorry for my english but I'm learning it)

ktani
September 26th, 2010, 08:29 AM
Hello, I have a question, instead of using ground cinnamon can be used cinnamon essential oil?. Thanks very much.
(sorry for my english but I'm learning it)

Welcome to LHC!

Your English is fine. It will get easier.

Cinnamon oil is a very powerful irritant and I could find nothing to state that it has any peroxide value.

Ground cinnamon is your best choice. You can also try ground cardamom after patch testing both.

It has been suggested that after letting a honey lightening recipe sit for 1 hour to develop its peroxide value, that one could filter it (using a tea strainer or coffee filter) before using it. That may be an option.

celeste116
September 28th, 2010, 06:13 AM
thank you very much ktani

ktani
September 28th, 2010, 06:24 AM
thank you very much ktani

You are most welcome!

ravenreed
September 28th, 2010, 02:53 PM
I have attempted to honey lighten 3 times now. The latest time, I used the new dilution and about a tablespoon of spice, comprised of cinnamon and cardamom in equal portions. I left it on over 10 hours. I didn't mean to but I slept in late. Holy cow! My virgin hair is much lighter than it was. Sadly, the previously hennaed/color-treated portion did not lighten nearly as much, so I have an interesting ombre look. This is okay with me, as I am currently using a demi-permanent dye and it will even out everything.

Why am I doing this? My goal is to eventually lighten all my hair so that the burgundy I use shows up inside. Right now, my hair looks dark brown/almost black in indoor lighting. When I go outside--POW. Black cherry jello color. I want that color all the time. I would like to lighten my hair enough to be able to use Special Effects dyes and have it show up. I think I will have to wait until the old stuff grows out, but it is nice to know that I can eventually get there.

ktani
September 28th, 2010, 03:03 PM
I have attempted to honey lighten 3 times now. The latest time, I used the new dilution and about a tablespoon of spice, comprised of cinnamon and cardamom in equal portions. I left it on over 10 hours. I didn't mean to but I slept in late. Holy cow! My virgin hair is much lighter than it was. Sadly, the previously hennaed/color-treated portion did not lighten nearly as much, so I have an interesting ombre look. This is okay with me, as I am currently using a demi-permanent dye and it will even out everything.

Why am I doing this? My goal is to eventually lighten all my hair so that the burgundy I use shows up inside. Right now, my hair looks dark brown/almost black in indoor lighting. When I go outside--POW. Black cherry jello color. I want that color all the time. I would like to lighten my hair enough to be able to use Special Effects dyes and have it show up. I think I will have to wait until the old stuff grows out, but it is nice to know that I can eventually get there.

Thank you for reporting!

Well, you certainly have a great honey and you did everything right (the hair stayed wet enough) to lighten, from your results. Your hennaed, colour-treated hair should lighten more. I cannot see why not.

How does your hair feel?

ravenreed
September 28th, 2010, 03:13 PM
I am not sure yet. It feels a little tangly right now, but I think it might be the cinnamon. It doesn't feel dry or damaged. I washed everything out yesterday but I still have cinnamon appearing in my brush when I use it, so I am going to clarify today and then do a coconut oiling. Tomorrow I am going to do the demi-permanent dye.

I will probably try to honey lighten just the darker parts next time. I have to wait a month though. It takes about that long for the demi-permanent dye to fade and I will be able to see the demarcation again. The other thing I might try is lemon juice. I remember using it successfully as a younger person, but it did turn my hair orange. :cool:



Thank you for reporting!

Well, you certainly have a great honey and you did everything right (the hair stayed wet enough) to lighten, from your results. Your hennaed, colour-treated hair should lighten more. I cannot see why not.

How does your hair feel?

ktani
September 28th, 2010, 03:36 PM
I am not sure yet. It feels a little tangly right now, but I think it might be the cinnamon. It doesn't feel dry or damaged. I washed everything out yesterday but I still have cinnamon appearing in my brush when I use it, so I am going to clarify today and then do a coconut oiling. Tomorrow I am going to do the demi-permanent dye.

I will probably try to honey lighten just the darker parts next time. I have to wait a month though. It takes about that long for the demi-permanent dye to fade and I will be able to see the demarcation again. The other thing I might try is lemon juice. I remember using it successfully as a younger person, but it did turn my hair orange. :cool:

You may have some honey residue as well. Lots of rinsing and shampoo have been reported to work best for that.

If you prepare the recipe in advance and let it sit for 1 or 2 hours then filter it before using,(tea strainer or coffee fillter), that may help with the cinnanon bits.

For the lemon juice, do not add that to a honey lightening recipe. It will deplete the peroxide value of the mix.

This is a thread from a while back that I saved, http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=40946.

dainaleeo2
September 28th, 2010, 06:22 PM
i just have a general question before i do this over the weekend.
& if this was answered anywhere, i'm sorry for repeating. I just didn't have time to go through the whole thing & search. [college...bleh!]

Anyway. overview of my hair:
My hair in a nutshell is pretty dry, but not as in such critical condition as it was last year. i've been diligent about oiling, conditioning, yada yada.
so, over the summer i decided to get highlights in my already slightly medium/light brown hair. that kind of messed up my hair a bit, so long story short i cut most off, & then covered the sad excuse for highlights with a demi permanent dark blonde color.

my goal is to allow my virgin color to grow out. so far, i have about 2.5 inches of roots, since i haven't done anything to it [color or cut] in nearly 3 months. my natural hair color...from what i can see & remember, is a light blonde, either neutral or slightly more ash.

but anyway, my question is this: i want to grow my hair out, but since my demi perm is also on the ends that are super dry, so i'll have this...odd light root dark ends situation. at least they aren't too dark, like a light copper color, so i was wondering if honey would help lighten the colored portion enough to where it would help blend easier with my roots. i don't want to get highlights again, so this would be a much easier way to get my hair lighter without the damage that the conventional way would cause. i was thinking of doing it a few times in order to achieve enough of a lightness to where the roots wouldnt stick out so much like a sore thumb :p

ktani
September 28th, 2010, 07:00 PM
i just have a general question before i do this over the weekend.
& if this was answered anywhere, i'm sorry for repeating. I just didn't have time to go through the whole thing & search. [college...bleh!]

Anyway. overview of my hair:
My hair in a nutshell is pretty dry, but not as in such critical condition as it was last year. i've been diligent about oiling, conditioning, yada yada.
so, over the summer i decided to get highlights in my already slightly medium/light brown hair. that kind of messed up my hair a bit, so long story short i cut most off, & then covered the sad excuse for highlights with a demi permanent dark blonde color.

my goal is to allow my virgin color to grow out. so far, i have about 2.5 inches of roots, since i haven't done anything to it [color or cut] in nearly 3 months. my natural hair color...from what i can see & remember, is a light blonde, either neutral or slightly more ash.

but anyway, my question is this: i want to grow my hair out, but since my demi perm is also on the ends that are super dry, so i'll have this...odd light root dark ends situation. at least they aren't too dark, like a light copper color, so i was wondering if honey would help lighten the colored portion enough to where it would help blend easier with my roots. i don't want to get highlights again, so this would be a much easier way to get my hair lighter without the damage that the conventional way would cause. i was thinking of doing it a few times in order to achieve enough of a lightness to where the roots wouldnt stick out so much like a sore thumb :p

The short answer is yes, it can.

The first post of this thread has been set up a a quick reference, including pictures at the bottom of the post.

Browse through the links and if you still have questions, I will be happy to help!

ravenreed
September 28th, 2010, 08:24 PM
i just have a general question before i do this over the weekend.
& if this was answered anywhere, i'm sorry for repeating. I just didn't have time to go through the whole thing & search. [college...bleh!]

Anyway. overview of my hair:
My hair in a nutshell is pretty dry, but not as in such critical condition as it was last year. i've been diligent about oiling, conditioning, yada yada.
so, over the summer i decided to get highlights in my already slightly medium/light brown hair. that kind of messed up my hair a bit, so long story short i cut most off, & then covered the sad excuse for highlights with a demi permanent dark blonde color.

my goal is to allow my virgin color to grow out. so far, i have about 2.5 inches of roots, since i haven't done anything to it [color or cut] in nearly 3 months. my natural hair color...from what i can see & remember, is a light blonde, either neutral or slightly more ash.

but anyway, my question is this: i want to grow my hair out, but since my demi perm is also on the ends that are super dry, so i'll have this...odd light root dark ends situation. at least they aren't too dark, like a light copper color, so i was wondering if honey would help lighten the colored portion enough to where it would help blend easier with my roots. i don't want to get highlights again, so this would be a much easier way to get my hair lighter without the damage that the conventional way would cause. i was thinking of doing it a few times in order to achieve enough of a lightness to where the roots wouldnt stick out so much like a sore thumb :p

Demi-permanent should pretty much wash out after a while. If I go more than two months without redoing it, it is mostly gone from my hair. Anyway, a more useful answer to your question is yes, honey should lighten the dye. It did on mine.



You may have some honey residue as well. Lots of rinsing and shampoo have been reported to work best for that.

If you prepare the recipe in advance and let it sit for 1 or 2 hours then filter it before using,(tea strainer or coffee fillter), that may help with the cinnanon bits.

For the lemon juice, do not add that to a honey lightening recipe. It will deplete the peroxide value of the mix.

This is a thread from a while back that I saved, http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=40946.

I did let the mix rest an hour. I think straining is a great idea and I will do it next time. I just clarified and my hair feels great.

As for the lemon juice, what I will do is dilute it a bit, spritz on my hair and sit in the sun a while. That is what I used to do. Thanks again.

ktani
September 28th, 2010, 08:51 PM
Demi-permanent should pretty much wash out after a while. If I go more than two months without redoing it, it is mostly gone from my hair. Anyway, a more useful answer to your question is yes, honey should lighten the dye. It did on mine.




I did let the mix rest an hour. I think straining is a great idea and I will do it next time. I just clarified and my hair feels great.

As for the lemon juice, what I will do is dilute it a bit, spritz on my hair and sit in the sun a while. That is what I used to do. Thanks again.

Sounds good and I am glad that your hair feels great!

Mirsha
September 29th, 2010, 07:33 AM
I'm pretty sure this has been answered somewhere but..

What would happen if undiluted honey is directly used on wet hair? Assuming it's left on long enough for peroxide to form? Or wouldn't it form because there's too little water? Sorry I have no idea how that part works :confused:

It wouldn't be easy to apply, maybe create some tangles even (but this is coming from a notoriously lazy person that likes not bothering with things for too long)

ktani
September 29th, 2010, 08:02 AM
I'm pretty sure this has been answered somewhere but..

What would happen if undiluted honey is directly used on wet hair? Assuming it's left on long enough for peroxide to form? Or wouldn't it form because there's too little water? Sorry I have no idea how that part works :confused:

It wouldn't be easy to apply, maybe create some tangles even (but this is coming from a notoriously lazy person that likes not bothering with things for too long)

The hair would need to be kept very wet. The pH of the honey when diluted with water affects the amount of peroxide produced and the honey itself (the plant source) determines what the peroxide level of the honey will be.

It has been established in research, that a honey will produce its maximum peroxide level in a distilled water solution of pH 6.

So, if the honey in question has a pH within the average pH of honeys on the market, 3.2 - 4.5, more water would be needed and the pH of the water should ideally be 7, with a low mineral content (some tap waters have been reported to work well).

I adapted new dilution, 1 tablespoon honey to 6 tablespoons distilled water, from a food services laboratory in the Netherlands, testing honeys for their peroxide value using distilled water, and a time of 1 hour to let the peroxide level develop. From reports, it works well for most honeys.

Less water can and has been used successfully with honeys that obviously have a higher pH.

From the first post of this thread, pH and honey lightening, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=282315&postcount=2296.

Mirsha
September 29th, 2010, 09:14 AM
Thanks a bunch ktani.

I was trying to make a shortcut by putting it directly on wet hair, thinking it'd work better because there'd be more honey on the hair. Ha.

I have a mix standing right now, with 2 tablespoons of (relatively) dark blended Melvita (http://www.melvita.nl/) brand honey, 12 tablespoons of distilled water, a tablespoon of ground cardamom and a (approx, mine's err, very solid) a tablespoon of coconut oil.

I'm planning to leave it in for an hour and reporting back after my hair's dry.
Hair's been henna'd 4 times in 6 months, I'm trying to lighten it close to my virgin colour to grow it out.

ktani
September 29th, 2010, 09:22 AM
Thanks a bunch ktani.

I was trying to make a shortcut by putting it directly on wet hair, thinking it'd work better because there'd be more honey on the hair. Ha.

I have a mix standing right now, with 2 tablespoons of (relatively) dark blended Melvita (http://www.melvita.nl/) brand honey, 12 tablespoons of distilled water, a tablespoon of ground cardamom and a (approx, mine's err, very solid) a tablespoon of coconut oil.

I'm planning to leave it in for an hour and reporting back after my hair's dry.
Hair's been henna'd 4 times in 6 months, I'm trying to lighten it close to my virgin colour to grow it out.

You are most welcome!

I get wanting to take a shortcut, lol. Everything sounds good. Good luck and please do update.

dainaleeo2
September 29th, 2010, 10:53 AM
The short answer is yes, it can.

The first post of this thread has been set up a a quick reference, including pictures at the bottom of the post.

Browse through the links and if you still have questions, I will be happy to help!

Yea i browsed through all of the pictures, just some were harder to tell than others. One had pretty significant difference, her darker virgin blonde hair to a much lighter blonde.
Excellent! Thank you! Hopefully this will be a much, much better & healthier alternative to bleaching.

& after browsing through most all of the links, I saw that a lot, or some, had issues with getting all of the honey/oil out on the first wash, thus giving them slightly more oily hair until they washed again. Since I have class all the time & couldn't really afford to go to class looking like the swamp monster, do you recommend a certain manner for getting it all out on the first wash?
I CO wash mainly, but if i had to shampoo then i would be fine with that. I was thinking maybe to do an ACV rinse at the end, seeing as how that might help get the excess out, but I wasn't sure. If you had any recommendations that would be fantastic.

& ceran wrap & a shower cap or plastic bag would work in lieu of a swimming cap, right? I don't have any but i have a plethora of ceran wrap & shower caps/plastic bags, so just trying to make do on a college budget :) I just want to make certain it stays wet.

ktani
September 29th, 2010, 10:59 AM
Yea i browsed through all of the pictures, just some were harder to tell than others. One had pretty significant difference, her darker virgin blonde hair to a much lighter blonde.
Excellent! Thank you! Hopefully this will be a much, much better & healthier alternative to bleaching.

& after browsing through most all of the links, I saw that a lot, or some, had issues with getting all of the honey/oil out on the first wash, thus giving them slightly more oily hair until they washed again. Since I have class all the time & couldn't really afford to go to class looking like the swamp monster, do you recommend a certain manner for getting it all out on the first wash?
I CO wash mainly, but if i had to shampoo then i would be fine with that. I was thinking maybe to do an ACV rinse at the end, seeing as how that might help get the excess out, but I wasn't sure. If you had any recommendations that would be fantastic.

& ceran wrap & a shower cap or plastic bag would work in lieu of a swimming cap, right? I don't have any but i have a plethora of ceran wrap & shower caps/plastic bags, so just trying to make do on a college budget :) I just want to make certain it stays wet.

You are most welcome!

It depends on the shower cap fit. You want a snug fit, similar to a swim cap.

dainaleeo2
September 29th, 2010, 11:45 AM
You are most welcome!

It depends on the shower cap fit. You want a snug fit, similar to a swim cap.
Ah ok. they aren't that snug, but I can just hopefully tie the excess so that i can make it snugger. :)
either that or I'll go buy a swim cap. does wal-mart carry those?

ktani
September 29th, 2010, 11:47 AM
Ah ok. they aren't that snug, but I can just hopefully tie the excess so that i can make it snugger. :)
either that or I'll go buy a swim cap. does wal-mart carry those?

Yup, http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_query=swim+caps&ic=48_0&search_constraint=0.

ShaSha
September 30th, 2010, 06:26 AM
ceran wrap & a shower cap or plastic bag would work in lieu of a swimming cap, right? I don't have any but i have a plethora of ceran wrap & shower caps/plastic bags, so just trying to make do on a college budget :) I just want to make certain it stays wet.

I use a thin plastic bag, press it close to my wet hair and wrap a towel on top. It keeps the plastic tight to my hair. (don't have a swimming cap either)

ktani
September 30th, 2010, 06:35 AM
I use a thin plastic bag, press it close to my wet hair and wrap a towel on top. It keeps the plastic tight to my hair. (don't have a swimming cap either)

If that works well for you, great. There is more than one method to keep the hair wet.

YesitsReal
September 30th, 2010, 02:39 PM
Quick question: Can you get lightening results just from adding honey and/or cinnamon to your regular shampoo or conditioner? If so, how long does it typically take to notice results?