PDA

View Full Version : HELP! Sulfate or silicone problem?



Makyle
October 23rd, 2018, 12:52 PM
Hi all, as a few of you know I have recently pulled away from and bleach and have gotten my hair into a much much much better condition through CO washes, oiling and, BBB and tangle teezer and zero heat etc...

Since the bottom portion of my APL hair (from about earlobe down) is previous bleach damage I thought I would try a Deep conditioning mask - I purchased CANTU - intensive repair deep condition mask - NO SILICONES, NO SULFATES , as it is readily available here where I live and I already have their leave in argan oil conditioner which I use sporadically.

As some on LHC have mentioned sulfate and silicone free products are good I thought I would give it a try, I did an overnight (as recommended on the label), the product dried and hardened on my hair and was very difficult to wash out, I had to wash it twice to get it off and used the leftover for only 15 minutes before my second wash (as the product was still wet then, it washed out fine the second time around).

But after the deep conditioner without sulfate or silicones my ends were as dry as if I had just bleach it again, thankfully I have a darling husband that is my "Hair goal defender" I used the L'oreal - extraordinary Oil -leave in cream and my ends seem to have recovered completely - will wait until tomorrow to check if they are still ok then and I can breathe.

Sorry for the long post but I got a massive scare :( as I am trying my utmost to protect my hair and grow it out all natural.

Can someone tell me if I may actually need the silicones/sulfates?...and if yes would I need it on all of my hair or only on the bleach damage?

A few stats below if this helps at all...

31yr old white female , 1C/2A hair, medium/ thick, previous Dye and repeated bleach damage on lower lengths, APL.

Please hair lovelies help me :pray:

Ylva
October 23rd, 2018, 01:01 PM
The bleach damaged bit could benefit from the silicones at least. Sulfates you'd only need to clarify buildup every once in a while (how often you need to do this no one can tell, you just need to experiment), if you scalp is okay with the absence of them. Silicones aren't evil if you know how your hair handles them and which ones it likes. Personally, I have bleached hair that requires a lot of moisture. I recently started to use silicones again, but only non-buildup ones (bis-aminopropyl dimethicone, amodimethicone). I find that using those, I still don't need to wash my lengths a lot (I rotate between sulfates and sulfate free shampoo) and hydration can still get in through the silicones enough. :) If your hair doesn't mind, there's no harm in using silicones on the virgin hair either, but you do have to try and see how it likes it.

You don't have to give up being silicone free just because one product didn't work for you. Keep testing. :)

nycelle
October 23rd, 2018, 01:01 PM
Hi all, as a few of you know I have recently pulled away from and bleach and have gotten my hair into a much much much better condition through CO washes, oiling and, BBB and tangle teezer and zero heat etc...

Since the bottom portion of my APL hair (from about earlobe down) is previous bleach damage I thought I would try a Deep conditioning mask - I purchased CANTU - intensive repair deep condition mask - NO SILICONES, NO SULFATES , as it is readily available here where I live and I already have their leave in argan oil conditioner which I use sporadically.

As some on LHC have mentioned sulfate and silicone free products are good I thought I would give it a try, I did an overnight (as recommended on the label), the product dried and hardened on my hair and was very difficult to wash out, I had to wash it twice to get it off and used the leftover for only 15 minutes before my second wash (as the product was still wet then, it washed out fine the second time around).

But after the deep conditioner without sulfate or silicones my ends were as dry as if I had just bleach it again, thankfully I have a darling husband that is my "Hair goal defender" I used the L'oreal - extraordinary Oil -leave in cream and my ends seem to have recovered completely - will wait until tomorrow to check if they are still ok then and I can breathe.

Sorry for the long post but I got a massive scare :( as I am trying my utmost to protect my hair and grow it out all natural.

Can someone tell me if I may actually need the silicones/sulfates?...and if yes would I need it on all of my hair or only on the bleach damage?

A few stats below if this helps at all...

31yr old white female , 1C/2A hair, medium/ thick, previous Dye and repeated bleach damage on lower lengths, APL.

Please hair lovelies help me :pray:

It might be that Cantu just doesn't work for you.

I went through a bunch of various products before I found something that worked for me. They just happened to be silicone free but I wasn't specifically looking for silicone free products.

If you have damage, I would try doing weekly deep conditioning treatments with heavy products. You can try Shea Moisture products, or if you want to spend more, I'm gonna recommend Briogeo Don't Despair, Repair! Deep conditioning mask.

Also, if you don't want to experiment with silicone free, there's no reason not to go back to using silicones. They may very well work better for you. But it's impossible to say without trying more than one or two silicone free products.

Makyle
October 23rd, 2018, 01:08 PM
Thanks ladies, The silicones in the L'oreal are non-build up (from what I can tell-but Im no pro, or I wouldnt be in this predicament lol) I only wash once a week - to avoid more damage.

I do have a sulfate/silicone free shampoo and conditioner I will try, but maybe it is just a case of balance and moving between the silicones and silicone free sporadically.

From what I noticed, my roots which are all natural were perfectly fine with the silcone/sulfate free deep condition (maybe even a bit lighter and bouncier - only my ends felt like hay.

paulownia
October 23rd, 2018, 01:10 PM
I checked this one. Is it the mask with shea butter?
Pretty nice stuff, indeed no silicones - only one polyquaternium. Lots of oils and butters, real emollient treat:)
I guess you just let it sit for too long... or maybe your hair just doesnít like some ingredient. Coconut oil for exemple.
You donít need to avoid silicones. They are actually a lifesaver for bleached hair ( one blogger I follow, a colorist by the way ;)) says there no such thing as care for bleached hair without silicones.
As for sulfates - you need to figure it out. If your hair is happy with gentler shampoos - go for it. Just do some clarifying once in a while.

Makyle
October 23rd, 2018, 01:20 PM
I checked this one. Is it the mask with shea butter?
Pretty nice stuff, indeed no silicones - only one polyquaternium. Lots of oils and butters, real emollient treat:)
I guess you just let it sit for too long... or maybe your hair just doesn’t like some ingredient. Coconut oil for exemple.
You don’t need to avoid silicones. They are actually a lifesaver for bleached hair ( one blogger I follow, a colorist by the way ;)) says there no such thing as care for bleached hair without silicones.
As for sulfates - you need to figure it out. If your hair is happy with gentler shampoos - go for it. Just do some clarifying once in a while.

Hi Paulownia, thanks,Yes it was the Shea butter one... I do think that maybe it was the amount of time I left it on - as its definitely not the coconut oil as my hair love love loves coconut oil - it was my saving grace when I walked away from bleach.

That info about the silicone for bleached hair is definitely a HUGE help - my hair is definitely fine with sulfate as I use to use it all the time when I was younger, but clarifying once in a while is a definite good thing, I have the cantu Cleansing cream sulfate free shampoo and conditioner and the LOreal Elvive Low shampoo (are either of these a claryfying shampoo?)

ravenskey
October 23rd, 2018, 01:31 PM
Hi Paulownia, thanks,Yes it was the Shea butter one... I do think that maybe it was the amount of time I left it on - as its definitely not the coconut oil as my hair love love loves coconut oil - it was my saving grace when I walked away from bleach.

That info about the silicone for bleached hair is definitely a HUGE help - my hair is definitely fine with sulfate as I use to use it all the time when I was younger, but clarifying once in a while is a definite good thing, I have the cantu Cleansing cream sulfate free shampoo and conditioner and the LOreal Elvive Low shampoo (are either of these a claryfying shampoo?)

I have no experience with bleach so can't help you there but after a glance at those shampoos, I can say they're not clarifying. The basic thing about clarifying shampoos is that they have sulfates in them to get through stuff like silicones.

Makyle
October 23rd, 2018, 01:32 PM
I have no experience with bleach so can't help you there but after a glance at those shampoos, I can say they're not clarifying. The basic thing about clarifying shampoos is that they have sulfates in them to get through stuff like silicones.

Hi Ravenskey, thank you.. can you recommend any clarifying shampoos?

Joules
October 23rd, 2018, 01:41 PM
Silicones are great. After researching and experimenting with them I realised there's no such thing as "silicones don't work for me", there's probably just "I don't know what silicones are right for me". If your hair is virgin, then silicone-free routine might work just fine for you, if your hair is bleached, heat damaged or just damaged by life, you most likely need cones to help it look and feel nice. You don't even need a hardcore sulfate shampoo to get rid of cones!

Here is a list of different types of silicones (http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2014/04/silicone-ingredient-solubility-list.html), and here's a list of detergents that wash them out (https://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2016/05/detergents-which-remove-silicones.html). I personally prefer polymer-type silicones that adhere only to damaged parts of my hair and don't build up, like amodimethicone or bis-aminopropyl dimethicone.

paulownia
October 23rd, 2018, 01:49 PM
Any shampoo with sulfates and without silicones ( or other filmformers) can clarify.
Hard to say what you could try when I donít know where you live and what is available for you.
Pantene Aqua Light has many positive revievs.
I like Faith in Nature shampoos, they are all filmformer-free and based on Ammonium Laureth Sulfate.

nycelle
October 23rd, 2018, 01:59 PM
Silicones are great. After researching and experimenting with them I realised there's no such thing as "silicones don't work for me", there's probably just "I don't know what silicones are right for me". If your hair is virgin, then silicone-free routine might work just fine for you, if your hair is bleached, heat damaged or just damaged by life, you most likely need cones to help it look and feel nice. You don't even need a hardcore sulfate shampoo to get rid of cones!

Here is a list of different types of silicones (http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2014/04/silicone-ingredient-solubility-list.html), and here's a list of detergents that wash them out (https://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2016/05/detergents-which-remove-silicones.html). I personally prefer polymer-type silicones that adhere only to damaged parts of my hair and don't build up, like amodimethicone or bis-aminopropyl dimethicone.

Actually, I noticed that since going silicone free (sulfate free didn't make a difference on me) my hair is much wavier. To me that's important and one of the reasons I won't go back to them. But they do give great slip.

ravenskey
October 23rd, 2018, 02:06 PM
Hi Ravenskey, thank you.. can you recommend any clarifying shampoos?

As paulownia says pretty much any sulfate shampoo will do.
I would also recommend Faith in Nature: when I used shampoo I used them and I still love their conditioner.

Makyle
October 23rd, 2018, 02:07 PM
Silicones are great. After researching and experimenting with them I realised there's no such thing as "silicones don't work for me", there's probably just "I don't know what silicones are right for me". If your hair is virgin, then silicone-free routine might work just fine for you, if your hair is bleached, heat damaged or just damaged by life, you most likely need cones to help it look and feel nice. You don't even need a hardcore sulfate shampoo to get rid of cones!

Here is a list of different types of silicones (http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2014/04/silicone-ingredient-solubility-list.html), and here's a list of detergents that wash them out (https://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2016/05/detergents-which-remove-silicones.html). I personally prefer polymer-type silicones that adhere only to damaged parts of my hair and don't build up, like amodimethicone or bis-aminopropyl dimethicone.

The lists are great, yes it definitely looks like my hair is a silicone lover, amodimethicone is in my L'Oreal products and they do wonders.

Looks like i have my method (I will Carefully experiment with things as I go) but I will definitely be sticking to what I know works for me...Thanks everyone.

Also thank you for the claryfying advice - checked my arsenal of products and looks like I am good to go with Clarifyers too, yay. (I swear i could have bought a car with the amount I have spent on hair goodies by now :D )

Ylva
October 23rd, 2018, 03:21 PM
You donít need to avoid silicones. They are actually a lifesaver for bleached hair ( one blogger I follow, a colorist by the way ;)) says there no such thing as care for bleached hair without silicones.

I would definitely have to disagree with that. My bleached (even somewhat damaged from it) hair loved being silicone free and that was the way I was able to get it to a better condition. It was a real pain in the arse for me to find a silicone that worked for my hair, but I still wouldn't mind being silicone free entirely.

lapushka
October 23rd, 2018, 04:05 PM
In my time with bleach, I can tell you this much, use silicones on the bleach because that is the best way to deal with bleach damage (and your experience proves that much). You could use the Cantu on the portion that is not bleached, and then use a silicone conditioner or mask on the bottom portion. This way it all gets used up.

Dark40
October 24th, 2018, 09:26 PM
I agree with Yiva. The bleach part does need silicones. If you have buildup you do also need the sulfates. But you did do good using the L'oreal Oil Cream on the dry ends. Keep doing that for a while, and deep condition using a heavy duty thick deep conditioner without silicones.

Joules
October 25th, 2018, 04:19 AM
Actually, I noticed that since going silicone free (sulfate free didn't make a difference on me) my hair is much wavier. To me that's important and one of the reasons I won't go back to them. But they do give great slip.

I've heard a few cosmetic chemists say that certain silicones do weigh down hair, but others don't. When I started using conditioners with amodimethicone after 8 years of being cone-free, the first thing I noticed was more defined wave pattern (even with spirals at the ends! I didn't have those before). Of course you can stay cone-free just for the sake of saving yourself time and trouble, not everyone wants to spend money on experiments with hair products. Still it doesn't mean all cones are evil for curlies and wavies, it's just like I said in my original post, you just don't know which ones are right for you. There are a lot of other ingredients that can disrupt curl pattern and weigh down your hair.

nycelle
October 25th, 2018, 06:00 AM
I've heard a few cosmetic chemists say that certain silicones do weigh down hair, but others don't. When I started using conditioners with amodimethicone after 8 years of being cone-free, the first thing I noticed was more defined wave pattern (even with spirals at the ends! I didn't have those before). Of course you can stay cone-free just for the sake of saving yourself time and trouble, not everyone wants to spend money on experiments with hair products. Still it doesn't mean all cones are evil for curlies and wavies, it's just like I said in my original post, you just don't know which ones are right for you. There are a lot of other ingredients that can disrupt curl pattern and weigh down your hair.

It's not about saving time or money for me. I was a product junkie until I found items that worked consistently for my hair - they just happened to be cone free. Since my hair is happy, and the healthiest (hardly any frizz, good slip, no breakage) it's been in years, no reason to look for anything else.
But I'm not one of those people that will say you should or shouldn't use cones, as no one's hair, routine or lifestyle is exactly the same. So it's just a matter of finding the right products for each individual.

Mademoiselle
October 25th, 2018, 04:39 PM
my hair has been bleached twice in this year (once completely discolored to get a dark tint, and the next time wicks), I also dye it every month and it doesnt like silicones, it seems as if they made it even drier , I have tried a lot and what works best for me is a lot of hydration, mask and shampoo without silicone and sulfates and almond oil and argan changed my life, my hair is really soft and shiny (not greasy), without frizz, when I use silicone feels good a couple of hours but then it has a lot of frizz and my tips feel hard ... it's amazing how each hair of different people can behave so different =)
Anyway I hope you find a method that works for you, you have already taken a big step by letting your natural hair grow, it will surely look nice and healthy very soon :blossom: