The More Treatments I Do, The Worse Things Get

[rms1990]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post, and I'm really hoping someone here can help me. The better care I try to take of my hair, the worse it seems to be feeling. I don't understand what i'm doing wrong.

I've gone from:

Bleaching hair to platinum blonde to no color or any chemical treatment in 4 months
Flat Ironing hair every other day to no heat styling at all
Washing hair 3-4 times a week in hot water to 1-2 times per week in 100% cold water
Hair down every day or in ponys to braids everyday and night
Sleeping on regular pillow case to sleeping on satin pillow case,
Regular hair brush to wooden brush
No treatments to oil treatments or rice water on wash days


I thought I was doing all the "right" things but for the last month or so, my hair has been feeling drier and drier, it's breaking off again, it's super tangly, and my hair fall has ramped up to new heights.

Someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong?! I want to get to tailbone length, but at this rate I feel like I'm going to end up with a bob for the rest of my life. :justy:

[*Wednesday*]

That bleach will be a problem until it is cut out of the hair. That is good you stopped but can take years if you are slowly trimming away.

There is a poster Yiva who bleaches her hair which can offer more advice

[ravenskey]

As *Wednesday* said, heat and bleach damage take way longer than 4 months to grow out so I'd keep up the routine and maybe microtrim the damage until it's gone.

Also I'm not sure washing in really cold water is any better than just warm. I may be wrong but I think that as long as the water isn't super hot you're good?

[EmeraldSkies]

Welcome to the forum :waving: Good job on quitting hair dye and flat iron!
I would suggest that you clarify your hair (if you have not done so) and then use deep conditioner to see if that helps. Hair products can buildup overtime causing hair to be dry and tangled. In addition, if your hair is protein sensitive, stay away from coconut oil and minimise using conditioner with protein. Instead, try out other oils and use conditioner without protein. I would also suggest washing hair with warm water and use cold water as a final rinse to smoothen the hair culticles. As for the damaged hair, you will probably have to microtrim to get rid of them slowly. Hopefully you find something that works for your hair. :)

[rms1990]

Hi!
Thank you so much for your quick responses. So all is not lost then? Perhaps this is just growing pains..

I could kick myself 1 year ago when I started bleaching again. Do you know how to do micro trims yourself? is it possible if it's only shoulder length?

I read somewhere that washing in cold would help to keep my blown cuticle laying a little flatter. ? Maybe it's not a real thing though...:confused:

[lapushka]

I've gone from:

Bleaching hair to platinum blonde to no color or any chemical treatment in 4 months
Flat Ironing hair every other day to no heat styling at all
Washing hair 3-4 times a week in hot water to 1-2 times per week in 100% cold water
Hair down every day or in ponys to braids everyday and night
Sleeping on regular pillow case to sleeping on satin pillow case,
Regular hair brush to wooden brush
No treatments to oil treatments or rice water on wash days


That bleach & heat will be an issue, because it is permanent damage; it's like growing out from bald. It doesn't matter if you stop this for a few weeks or months, you have to totally stop it *and* grow back from "like" shaved.

It will probably keep breaking off on and on until all that heat/bleach damage is out.

Also, washing in cold water, I wouldn't do, because it doesn't rinse out your products properly and there might be part of your problem (build-up). Lukewarm to warm is fine but cold: no, don't do it!

Also, welcome to the forum!

[rms1990]

It never used to be protein sensitive.. Is it possible that it became so after having my second baby? My hair changed a lot after her... from totally straight and super thick to curly/wavy and thinner.

[rms1990]

That bleach & heat will be an issue, because it is permanent damage; it's like growing out from bald. It doesn't matter if you stop this for a few weeks or months, you have to totally stop it *and* grow back from "like" shaved.

It will probably keep breaking off on and on until all that heat/bleach damage is out.

Also, washing in cold water, I wouldn't do, because it doesn't rinse out your products properly and there might be part of your problem (build-up). Lukewarm to warm is fine but cold: no, don't do it!

Also, welcome to the forum!

Thank you!

And good to know!! Lukewarm it is! It's been a miserable 4 months in icy water. Thank you all so much!!!

I am going to try all of this and hopefully there'll be a light at the end of the tunnel!

[spitfire511]

Hi rms1990 welcome to the boards! One main point There is always hope!:flowers:

Question - how recent is that second baby? That could definitely speak to the fall/changes. Anything you gain in more hair when you are pregnant almost always is going to come back out, and sometimes with a little extra. This happened with both of mine (and I'm now 41 and experiencing hormone-decline related fall - hormones are SUCH fun!)

Our hair can change as we do - I used to have cone-loving easy hair - now I have protein-sensitive hair that requires a lot more patience and care. So while knowing what you hair used to be like can be helpful, I think we have to play to how our hair is right now and know that we have to adapt as it changes.

All the others have it covered with the bleach - any damage is permanent whether it's heat, bleach, mechanical etc. You'll see a lot of folks here 'growing out the damage' - I'm growing sun damage out myself.

Micro-trimming might be hard until it's a bit longer I think (though someone is bound to pop on and prove me wrong immediately!), but you might can S&D (Search and Destroy) sit down with some haircutting scissors (not regular ones) and snip out splits/white dots etc - you can twist very small sections careful and snip at those pieces that stick out from the twist - I wind up pulling small sections and staring at the exact end and snipping carefully there, as that where most of my damage is. The key is to stop splits/dots etc from getting worse than they already are - this can also help with tangling.

Put on your patience hat - slowly try new things to determine what your hair needs (check out the stickies as there are SO many good articles there on things to try and what we all do here) and go for some benign neglect - ignore it, be careful with it and try not to obsess until you've gotten that bleach all grown out!

[MusicalSpoons]

Welcome! :flower: and congratulations on giving up heat and bleach - it is a long road and a commitment but I'm sure it will be worth it :hifive:


It never used to be protein sensitive.. Is it possible that it became so after having my second baby? My hair changed a lot after her... from totally straight and super thick to curly/wavy and thinner.

Your hair probably wants lots of moisture then :) you may find it benefits from moisturising more between washes, especially as you've reduced the frequency of washing. (I don't actually know how that is done, but there are many here who can help if you decide to look into it.)

Braids ... Hmm. How long is your hair in terms of body markers/milestones? Some of us don't find braids particularly protective for various reasons, and especially past a certain length the friction from rubbing on clothes, seat backs etc causes almost as much damage as wearing it loose or in a ponytail. I personally find sleeping in a braid is even worse, unless it's protected entirely in silk or satin. Yours might be short enough that the pillowcase still protects it at night, and short enough to be out of the way, but it's still something to be aware of as you grow. Also, my ends don't do well being tied off at the end of a braid, even with supposedly hair friendly elastics; I can get away with occasionally wearing a braid secured with a small satin scrunchie but anything else and I have to be prepared for the ends to be grumpy, if not damaged. So your already heat- and chemical-damaged ends might not take being tied so often? Just a thought.

[Joules]

I agree with everyone else, bleach and heat damage need more time to grow out. Just be patient and wait. Clarifying and deep conditioning can help though, so definitely give it a try! Also I'd suggest siliconey leave-ins. Nothing but silicone can help super damaged hair stay on your head a bit longer.

I don't think your hair is protein sensitive. Damaged hair is porous by default, it should love protein. Unless you're doing hardcore protein treatments and not balancing it out with moisturizing ones, you should be ok.

[Dark40]

Hi and welcome to the forum! :) It's a good thing you've stopped the bleaching and flat-ironing every single day! Sounds like it to me your hair needs some moisture. Like, a heavy duty moisturizing conditioner where you sit under the dryer for 15 minutes using heat so that it can penetrate the hair shaft, and after that apply some oil to the length.

[spidermom]

Shampoo and conditioner are formulated to be used with warm water. Cold water is failing to activate the conditioner.

Add in some deep moisture treatments. You might also need protein. KPak Reconstructor by Joico provides both. When my hair was ultra long, that was my holy grail deep treatment.

[elfynity]

I thought I was doing all the "right" things but for the last month or so, my hair has been feeling drier and drier, it's breaking off again, it's super tangly, and my hair fall has ramped up to new heights.



Hi rms1990 and welcome!

Everyone has made some really great suggestions, and it is awesome that you are now trying to look after your hair. Your hair is damaged and fragile. I wouldn't worry about it falling out right now, I would allow it to do what it needs to to get itself healthy again. With every hair that falls, a brand new completely undamaged hair is going to replace it! yay. Just keep concentrating on keeping your scalp healthy! And so far, you are doing that.

Bleach and heat is a killer on hair and what you will need now is loads of moisture.


Your hair probably wants lots of moisture then :) you may find it benefits from moisturising more between washes, especially as you've reduced the frequency of washing. (I don't actually know how that is done, but there are many here who can help if you decide to look into it.)


Presuming that you have clarified your hair to get all the product and silicones off, you should start moisturizing. My hair was soooo dry, especially the ends that have dye and heat damage. My routine includes the famous SMT (https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128)once week, and then everyday I put either organic conditioner / honey / aloe gel / lavender EO in it, or a combination of these to moisturize it. Flip, I'll even shove a mashed avocado onto my ends - whatever it takes. I just don't ever let my ends go dry now.

Also, my idea of clean hair has completely changed. It's funny, I used to think that hair that looks dry and non oily was what was accepted, and now I am so used to having glossy hair, that days where my hair looks a bit oily, now in my opinion, is a good hair day. Dry hair is for people who aren't trying to grow their hair.

I often take a blob of conditioner and work it into the last 4 inches of my hair and then wrap those ends into a bun.

Have you considered doing CO wash only and ditch the shampoo which is very drying?



Also I'd suggest siliconey leave-ins. Nothing but silicone can help super damaged hair stay on your head a bit longer.
Did you stop using silicones in your shampoo? Silicones tend to hold broken hair together, mostly, If you stopped, your hair may not be holding together anymore.

Silicones can hold your broken hair structure together, and allow alot of slip (so no damaged ends rubbing on each other and damaging even more). It's a big decision, but perhaps silicones may work for you. I have read there are 2 kinds, the ones that wash off easily with water, and those that don't. I'd recommend the first. You will need to clarify often though, which is the down side as that is vey drying and difficult for damaged hair to always go through. Personally, I wouldn't go this route, but there are many long hair here who swear by silicones. You just have to see what is going to work for you.

At this stage I would only apply oils once you know for sure that you have moisturized your ends as much as you can (and your roots if they are also dry). Thereafter, rub maybe a drop or two of a good organic oil between your hands thoroughly and then rub the oil that didn't absorb into your hands down the lengths of your hair. If your hair comes out oily and stringy, you did too much. I do this only every 3rd or so day - just depending. If my hair looks dry, I don't run to oils, I turn to conditioners.

I highly recommend avocado oil. It is absorptive like coconut, but doesn't go crunchy and is much lighter and easier for damaged hair. It really works for me.

I hope this helps you!! I wish you the best of luck!

[Ylva]

Others have already given great advice. Sorry if this has been asked before, there's just one thing that popped in my mind while skimming through the thread. Are you also experiencing issues with the condition of your virgin growth? Could it be possible that you are used to caring for high porosity hair (bleached), but your virgin hair is normal or low porosity and therefore doesn't respond well to those practises?

Also, I came to think of the same as elfynity above. Have you swapped from silicone conditioners to silicone free ones? In that case, you're seeing the true condition of your hair. It will be less slippery, feel drier and maybe look frizzier than before.

Sometimes simplicity can be the key. I personally don't do deep treatments, for example. I have my wash day in-shower routines + leave-in soon after, and that's all.

[OhSuzi]

Id wash normally in warm water - the heat and the steam helps open the cuticles so the product can be absorbed & then rinsed off porperly
but I would do the last rinse in cold water because it is supposed to help close the cuticles & make the hair shaft smoother & shinier.
Get rid of the worst of the wet - not with a rough towel tho - I use a t shirt
& then either air dry or use cold hair dryer.

Bit like how you would use hot steamy water to open your pores and wash yer face with and then afterwards you might use cold water to splash on it & close the pores - but you dont wash with just cold water.

[Alibran]

I thought I was doing all the "right" things but for the last month or so, my hair has been feeling drier and drier, it's breaking off again, it's super tangly, and my hair fall has ramped up to new heights.

This sounds like protein overload to me. Take a look at the ingredients list on the products you've been using for any kinds of protein (keratin, silk, etc). The higher they are up the list, the more the product contains. If you've been using a lot of repair/restructuring type products, they're likely to be very protein heavy.

Do a stretch test on a shed hair.
- If it doesn't stretch at all, and snaps easily, you've got protein overload.
- If it stretches a bit, and then springs back, you're nicely balanced between protein and moisture (which is what you're aiming for).
- If it stretches, doesn't spring back, and eventually breaks, you're low on protein.

Assuming your hair is suffering from protein overload, cut out ALL protein for now. Look for super moisturising products with no protein at all, and deep condition like crazy. Also, avoid coconut oil, as it's a protein mimicker. If you want to do oil treatments, use other moisturising oils like olive, avocado or argan oil.

Once your hair is balanced, reintroduce a little protein until you find the optimal amount for your hair. (You definitely will need protein because of the damage, but I think you've been using too much.)

[rms1990]

I think it's considered Shoulder length?

I'm so confused by my hair right now. I'm seriously considering shaving it off.

Just clarified and lost over 75 hairs rinsing. When I looked at the hairs I can see a significant diameter difference between the roots and the ends. Why on earth is my hair getting thinner and falling out more?? I swear when I was coloring it, and heat styling it and washing it 3-4 times a week it was in better condition than it is now. I take a bunch of vitamins in case I'm missing anything in my diet... Started using Rogaine... I can tell it's making a difference because the hair on my face is growing like crazy, BUT STILL I continue to thin and shed like an animal. I'm convinced at this rate I'll be bald in a matter of months.

i've had all the blood tests, everything comes back normal, I'm on the Depo shot so I know my hormones are stable... I just don't get it.
:rip::boohoo:

[PixieNixie]

Okay here is my take on everything.... I do bleach my hair regular (only roots but lengths have been double processed to platinum). I make sure my stylist uses Olaplex every time. I also use Olaplex 3 at home. This helps rebuild the structure broken down in the bleaching process. I also do no use heat on my bleached hair. I cannot emphasis this more. Bleached hair is super duper fragile. Heat just damages it even more to the point it might throw it over the edge of no return. Bleached hair needs both protien and moisture. The bleaching process lifts the cuticle of hair. This causes protien and moisture to easily escape from the hair now. I totally stay away from silicones and sulfates with bleached hair. The reason being is this: Sulfates are way too drying and you need all the moisture in your hair that you can get. Silicones are just gonna mask damage and create a barrier on the hair that wont allow the moisture you so desperately need in your hair to penetrate. My best advice is this. Get and start using Olaplex 3. Do coconut oil hair masks for moisture and protien. Invest in a good sulfate free/silicone shampoo and conditioner. Find soemthing that is moisturizing and has protien or better yet get a moisturizing version and a protien heavy version and rotate. Find a good non silicone based leave in conditioner and a good leave in oil for your hair. You wanna moisturize and then lock in that moisture with an oil (kinda the LCO method). ACV rinses can also help close the cuticle and sorta seal it back up. I do all of this and my hair is super healthy, shiny, with virtually no split ends.

[PixieNixie]

I also I forgot to add if you can get your hands on the Aphogee 2 step protien treatment, that and Olaplex can help stop the breakage for now. The Aphogee treatment is a very heavy duty protien treatment that helps rescue over processed hair. You will still need a protien heavy conditioner and a moisture heavy conditioner for wash days.

[Wendyclaire]

I’m new to posting as well. My hair is bsl but my hair hates deep conditioning and barely tolerates any type of conditioner. I use argon oil I buy at Walmart and it works well. I apply it after a shampoo to the ends. And a few times during the day if needed. I hope you’re feeling better. I also never braid or bun my hair and have few to no splits or breakage.

[JennGalt]

Losing 75 hairs on wash day during fall (when a lot of people tend to shed more) doesn’t sound all that alarming to me; it sounds pretty normal. Most people shed 50-100 hairs per day anyway, and it’s not weird to shed more on wash day.

Also: just because you are on the Depo shot does NOT mean your hormones are stabilized. It sent mine way out of whack quite suddenly after being on it for two years, and then stopped working. My doctor was shocked, but it does happen and I’m not the only one.

Alibran is right about the protein thing, but I just wanted to offer another perspective. I may very well have the weirdest hair on the forum (standard advice often doesn’t work for me), but when mine exhibits the typical signs of protein overload, it definitely wants more moisture, but it will not hold the moisture at all and will continue to frizz and break unless it gets more protein and some oil to seal it. Definitely try the standard advice first! But there are those of us who simply have to learn our hair’s quirks, and that can take time and be rather frustrating. Don’t give up :flower:

[lapushka]

Yes the 75 hairs (did you actually count them?) are nothing! You should not stress out about your hair this way. Also the Rogaine might have something to do with your hair being "thicker" at the root. Have you considered that?

I think you have nothing to worry about. Nothing that a good moisturizing treatment won't fix. ;)

[PixieNixie]

I would still do a colder final rinse because it does help close the cuticle and keep in moisture. Warm/hot water lifts the cuticle even more and will cause more moisture loss. I personally wash in lukewarm/coldish water because I have semi permanent hair dye that I like to keep in as long as possible.

[AutobotsAttack]

I’m more than certain the main culprits are you using oils and rice water.
Granted they’re okay to use, but rice water is essentially protein, which strengthens. Not moisturizes.
Same with oils. Oils DO NOT moisturize.

Just switch to a deep treatment that’s some sort of cream. Keep the oils and rice water rinses but do so after you’ve deep conditioned with a moisturizing cream treatment.

I have extremely porous hair, and it doesn’t matter if I rinse with cold or hot water. Main thing to deal with with very porous hair is keeping moisture locked in. Keep a loose bun, or loose braid if your hair doesn’t mind braids, tuck those ends in, moisturizing treatments, something to seal, and low manipulation, with some patience sprinkled in.

If you aren’t having issues with birth control, diet, exercise, or amounts of rest, children, etc., then it’s probably your hair just needing more moisture sealed in.

[aethyra]

Okay here is my take on everything.... I do bleach my hair regular (only roots but lengths have been double processed to platinum). I make sure my stylist uses Olaplex every time. I also use Olaplex 3 at home. This helps rebuild the structure broken down in the bleaching process. I also do no use heat on my bleached hair. I cannot emphasis this more. Bleached hair is super duper fragile. Heat just damages it even more to the point it might throw it over the edge of no return. Bleached hair needs both protien and moisture. The bleaching process lifts the cuticle of hair. This causes protien and moisture to easily escape from the hair now. I totally stay away from silicones and sulfates with bleached hair. The reason being is this: Sulfates are way too drying and you need all the moisture in your hair that you can get. Silicones are just gonna mask damage and create a barrier on the hair that wont allow the moisture you so desperately need in your hair to penetrate. My best advice is this. Get and start using Olaplex 3. Do coconut oil hair masks for moisture and protien. Invest in a good sulfate free/silicone shampoo and conditioner. Find soemthing that is moisturizing and has protien or better yet get a moisturizing version and a protien heavy version and rotate. Find a good non silicone based leave in conditioner and a good leave in oil for your hair. You wanna moisturize and then lock in that moisture with an oil (kinda the LCO method). ACV rinses can also help close the cuticle and sorta seal it back up. I do all of this and my hair is super healthy, shiny, with virtually no split ends.
Thank you Pixie for this post. I was reading this thread intently since I have similar issues as the OP. I saw the above post and remembered that i had a bittle of Olaplex 3. I washed my hair this morning with a nettle based shampoo bar dilution then rinsed with shower filtered water for 3 straight minutes. I then went to my sink and painted on a bottle of Olaplex 3 and put on shower cap for 30 minutes then rinsed. My hair improved quite a bit. I have lower 6 inches, regularly trimmed, but bleach damaged with matting and breakage. The olaplex truly helped today.

Thank you for posting this. My lower 3 inches are still dry but dematted and detangled. What priduct shoukd i use for leave in? Oil free...

[aethyra]

Thank you in advance for any suggestions you may have and I apologize for the numerous typos in my previous post.

[PixieNixie]

I would find a leave in conditioner you like and start there. I personally like Shea Moisture Silcone Free Miracle Styler Leave In Treatment. It is not oil free though. You might need to experiment a little bit with leave in conditioners to find out which one works for your hair type, but it should help with the dryness.