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rytiff
October 16th, 2018, 07:25 PM
Hello all! I’ve been a member for awhile and have learned a great deal. So thank you for all the great tips and ideas about proper hair care! I was just wondering though if anyone else has hair that just doesn’t seem to fit in any particular category and has a cranky tempermant of it’s own? For instance my hair is baby fine and extremly thin, yet when I wash it at night and either braid or bun it damp, it will still be wet in the morning when I take it down to get ready for the day. You would think for how thin it is that it wouldn’t take long to dry at all. I never use heat styling or blow dryers and I do not dye it anymore because of a bad allergic reaction years ago, yet I have frizz all over from all the breakage. Sulfate-free doesn’t clean my scalp and leaves me itchy, cones makes my skin feel slimey and my hair coated and weighed down. I’ve tried different oil techniques with different oils and I seem to fail at that too. I guess I just want to feel like I belong somewhere so I can start to take care of my hair the best I can. I love long hair but right now I feel lost.

Jo Ann
October 16th, 2018, 08:28 PM
Nope--not strange at all!

I've gone to work with damp hair bunned and it's STILL damp nine hours later, when I take it down. If possible, try to wash your hair hours before you get ready for bed--that should give it enough time to dry before you bun or braid it for sleepy-bye time.

I found oils a "trial and error" thing--heck, sometimes I STILL put too much coconut oil on my hair after I wash it (and I've been using coconut oil for over three years :shocked: ).

As for shampoos and conditioners, I would suggest getting the trial or travel sizes (less than three ounces) and see what luck you have with those. I would also suggest swapping out one shampoo or conditioner at a time so you can better evaluate the product's performance with your hair. I would try a clarifying shampoo, like Suave's Daily Clarifying Shampoo, first to give you a "clean slate" before you start trying different shampoo/conditioner combinations. It can be drying, so if you have found a conditioner that (relatively speaking) works for you, use that after you use this shampoo.

Good luck!

school of fish
October 16th, 2018, 09:26 PM
I can very much relate! I'll go into more details when I have more time, but in the meantime I can tell you have very fine textured hair that dries very fast when loose but stays wet forever when contained in a bun or braid. I also have issues with oils & sulphate free formulations. My hair seems to defy a lot of the supposed 'norms' around here, but I've found a routine that works well for me.

I'll come back when I can to fill in - just wanted to let you know you're not alone :)

Crystawni
October 16th, 2018, 10:01 PM
Yup, mine's the same if I bun it damp--it can actually take days to dry. Well, only the pigmented hairs, as my whites are dry as soon as a towel hits them. And bunning damp is a no-go for my scalp thanks to it creating an itch-fest due to more humidity and less breathability in a hot climate. My hair is also all virgin with low porosity, and so fine I have too many hairs to count in a mm on a ruler (I got to 32 before going cross-eyed :brains:). My fave conditioner is TRESemme Botanique Restore and Shine (no cones, not too heavy, but has enough slip and moisture to do the job), and I don't often shampoo my hair.

MusicalSpoons
October 17th, 2018, 05:09 AM
Mine is pretty average all round but I used to very loosely contain my still-damp hair overnight in a satin scrunchie in the loosest of ponytails several inches away from my scalp - and it still doesn't fully dry. When I was much younger I used to bun my hair damp after washing, redo the bun each day until the next wash and my hair literally was never dry :bigeyes: I'm fortunate I still have hair, after doing that for far too long! Anyway, my point is, you're not alone in your hair not drying if it's been put up while still damp!

Frizz might be new growth rather than damage - it's perfectly normal and natural to have hairs of all different lengths on your head as they're all in different stages of their growth cycle :) This is a typical example of what happens when my hair air-dries, before I've slept on it :grin: https://farm1.staticflickr.com/925/26674044047_c873f910ae_b.jpg

As for the rest, it sounds like patience is key, to experiment with one product or method at a time to find what your hair does like. You'll get there! :flower:

browneyedsusan
October 17th, 2018, 05:55 AM
My bun doesn't dry overnight either. I always thought it was because it compacted down so tight?

Everyone's hair is different, so you'll need to try things!
My hair is pretty easy, but I found that it doesn't like coconut oil or olive oil. For me, using a light oil on damp hair followed by a coney leave-in, has done wonders!

I think your frizz might be new growth? My ends flick out and it looks crazy when it air dries! :)

lapushka
October 17th, 2018, 06:09 AM
For instance my hair is baby fine and extremly thin, yet when I wash it at night and either braid or bun it damp, it will still be wet in the morning when I take it down to get ready for the day. You would think for how thin it is that it wouldn’t take long to dry at all. I never use heat styling or blow dryers and I do not dye it anymore because of a bad allergic reaction years ago, yet I have frizz all over from all the breakage. Sulfate-free doesn’t clean my scalp and leaves me itchy, cones makes my skin feel slimey and my hair coated and weighed down. I’ve tried different oil techniques with different oils and I seem to fail at that too. I guess I just want to feel like I belong somewhere so I can start to take care of my hair the best I can. I love long hair but right now I feel lost.

Overnight, on a pillow... it's not gonna dry that well. Can you at all wash it around noon, or at the latest 2/3PM? My mom has i hair as well, and she washes it around that time, roller sets it and by around 10PM it *for sure* is dry.

I think pushing the time where you wash it down to not that late in the evening will help you tremendously. My mom's hair takes a few hours to dry when left down, in rollers it takes a tad longer, especially when product is added (and she adds a curl cream + a gel).

Good luck!
& Welcome here! :D

Joules
October 17th, 2018, 06:20 AM
I thought hair not drying when contained was a simple fact of life. Just like your laundry would stay damp if you leave it in a washing machine. If you want it to dry, then leave it loose, give it some air.

When I wash my hair at night I always give myself at least 2 spare hours to let it dry as much as possible, then I braid it very loosely, and it's still slightly damp by morning. If there's an emergency and I had to go to bed with soaking wet hair, then I won't do anything tighter than a loose ponytail, just to keep my hair out of my face when I'm sleeping. When my hair was shorter than waist I just slept with it down, no big deal, and it was 100% dry by morning.

elsiedeluxe
October 17th, 2018, 06:39 AM
It sounds like you have low porosity hair, like mine. It takes a lot of saturation for the water to really get in there in the shower, and it takes a long time to dry. My hair would never dry if bunned or braided. It has to be down and loose to dry. (I'm recalling this from when my hair was a lot longer than it is now. At shoulder length, I don't really have the option of braiding or bunning when wet.)

lapushka
October 17th, 2018, 07:41 AM
Do you dry it off with a towel after you "wring" aka squeegee it out after the wash?

rytiff
October 17th, 2018, 05:04 PM
As for shampoos and conditioners, I would suggest getting the trial or travel sizes (less than three ounces) and see what luck you have with those. I would also suggest swapping out one shampoo or conditioner at a time so you can better evaluate the product's performance with your hair. I would try a clarifying shampoo, like Suave's Daily Clarifying Shampoo, first to give you a "clean slate" before you start trying different shampoo/conditioner combinations. It can be drying, so if you have found a conditioner that (relatively speaking) works for you, use that after you use this shampoo.

Good luck!

Great idea about trying to find the travel sizes! That will help cut down on the stash of products that I’ve tried and don’t like and now don’t have room to store before I can come up with another use for them. Thanks!

rytiff
October 17th, 2018, 05:10 PM
Yes, that’s me too! If I leave it loose it dries very quickly. I am looking forward to finding out more about your routine when you get a chance. Thanks for the help!

rytiff
October 17th, 2018, 05:16 PM
My fave conditioner is TRESemme Botanique Restore and Shine (no cones, not too heavy, but has enough slip and moisture to do the job), and I don't often shampoo my hair.

I’ve got to go find that conditioner. It sounds like the perfect thing I am looking for.

rytiff
October 17th, 2018, 05:21 PM
Do you dry it off with a towel after you "wring" aka squeegee it out after the wash?

I don’t wring it out, but I put it in turbie twist it to soak up all the drips for about 5-10 minutes. Then I let it down and make sure the tangles are out, blot the ends again, and finally bun it (or braid).

Crystawni
October 17th, 2018, 05:31 PM
I’ve got to go find that conditioner. It sounds like the perfect thing I am looking for.

If you're in the US, it's known as Nourish and Replenish (https://www.amazon.com/TRESemm%C3%A9-Selection-Conditioner-Botanique-Replenish/dp/B0199WNGIW). I've tried a fair few products, and many good ones have been discontinued, but that is one I go back to and now have on hand all the time.

daisy rei
October 17th, 2018, 08:51 PM
Mine is pretty average all round but I used to very loosely contain my still-damp hair overnight in a satin scrunchie in the loosest of ponytails several inches away from my scalp - and it still doesn't fully dry. When I was much younger I used to bun my hair damp after washing, redo the bun each day until the next wash and my hair literally was never dry :bigeyes: I'm fortunate I still have hair, after doing that for far too long! Anyway, my point is, you're not alone in your hair not drying if it's been put up while still damp!

Frizz might be new growth rather than damage - it's perfectly normal and natural to have hairs of all different lengths on your head as they're all in different stages of their growth cycle :) This is a typical example of what happens when my hair air-dries, before I've slept on it :grin: https://farm1.staticflickr.com/925/26674044047_c873f910ae_b.jpg

As for the rest, it sounds like patience is key, to experiment with one product or method at a time to find what your hair does like. You'll get there! :flower:

Omg, my hair looks exactly like that! It does seem to flatten out fairly quickly though. Hand smoothing helps as well. ;)

Doreen
October 17th, 2018, 11:30 PM
The oil may be sealing the moisture into your hair and preventing it from drying, or you may have very high porosity hair -- basically when your hair is very porous, it is able to retain more water and therefore take longer to dry. Low porosity hair may also take a long time to dry, but that is because the water is having a hard time escaping/evaporating from the hair, though the amount of water it's able to absorb is less. You might try doing a porosity test and seeing which of these applies to you so you can address the problem in the right way.

Here's a link explaining the test (very easy to do at home):
https://thenopoomethod.com/porosity/

Kat
October 18th, 2018, 05:44 AM
I find that once I have detangled my hair after a wash, it dries much faster after that-- I'm sure because now air has had a chance to get to all the strands (they've been separated by finger-combing rather than being clumped together wet). So that might help.

Also, frankly, I will go to bed with my hair loose if it's still damp when I go to bed. But, I'm not an "active" sleeper, so I just make sure it's out of my way (straightened out well behind me) and if I turn over, I'm always awake enough to just make sure my hair is safely flipped to the other side.

school of fish
October 18th, 2018, 08:50 AM
Coming back to fill out my answer :)

My hair is super compressable, and very non-porous after years of henna applications - so it doesn't seem to absorb much by way of moisture, and also it will hang on to moisture on the surface of the strands if air can't flow between them. I think this is why my hair at TBL will dry within 45min-1hr when loose but still be wet 2 days later left in a tight bun (even a loose one actually..) You may find that if your hair really compresses down in buns and braids, that this might be a factor in dry time.

As for oils - once again, after years of henna smoothing down the cuticle combined with my very very fine strands, any oils just sit on the surface and don't penetrate - so oiling isn't a beneficial practice for me. On top of that, my own sebum behaves in the same way as oils, so I wash frequently - daily - in order to clear off the accumulation. My sebum is waxy & sticky textured and doesn't preen down the length easily, so it actually makes my strands stick together if I don't clear it off. So for you - it's possible you may find oiling may be too much for your texture, or that you may benefit from miniscule quantites or a method like oil rinsing. Rinse-out oil is the one method I *can* use - you might want to check that out!

My own best practices seem to differ from what many others find works for them (washing less frequently, oiling, taking advantage of natural sebum), but I don't really think of it as 'cranky' exactly - my hair just likes different treatment, that's all. I agree with those who suggest to try one thing at a time - one new product, one switch in the wash schedule, etc... process of elimination is the best way forward because it's easier to pinpoint what works and what doesn't :)

lapushka
October 18th, 2018, 01:52 PM
I don’t wring it out, but I put it in turbie twist it to soak up all the drips for about 5-10 minutes. Then I let it down and make sure the tangles are out, blot the ends again, and finally bun it (or braid).

I don't mean wring out like a rag, but at least manually sort of squeeze water out - do do that, because on dripping hair a towel isn't going to do its best job.

rytiff
October 18th, 2018, 07:48 PM
The oil may be sealing the moisture into your hair and preventing it from drying, or you may have very high porosity hair -- basically when your hair is very porous, it is able to retain more water and therefore take longer to dry. Low porosity hair may also take a long time to dry, but that is because the water is having a hard time escaping/evaporating from the hair, though the amount of water it's able to absorb is less. You might try doing a porosity test and seeing which of these applies to you so you can address the problem in the right way.

Here's a link explaining the test (very easy to do at home):
https://thenopoomethod.com/porosity/

Thanks for the link. I am curious what my hair’s porosity is, so I am doing the test now. I know when I try to see if it has elasticity that my hair strands snap almost immediately which I thought meant it means that it needs more moisture. Which is why I came to the conclusion that the frizz was from breakage and not new growth.

So far the floating hair test is just my hair floating on top and has not sunk into the water at all.

rytiff
October 18th, 2018, 07:55 PM
I don't mean wring out like a rag, but at least manually sort of squeeze water out - do do that, because on dripping hair a towel isn't going to do its best job.

I am so sorry, I misunderstood you. Please accept my apology. Actually while still in the shower I kind of do the curly girl method of cupping the clumps that are hanging together and kind of squish the whole length as one unit to squish out the excess moisture. Then when I step out of the shower, I wrap it up in the turbie twist towel.

rytiff
October 18th, 2018, 08:08 PM
I am definitely going to take you suggestions about when to wash it. I usually only wash it 2-3 times a week depending on how sweaty I get during the summer and then try to stretch it out to just 2 times during the winter when I am not as active. So I can easily wash it earlier in the day on the weekends when I don’t have to work and I will try to wash it earlier in the evening during the mid-week.

rytiff
October 18th, 2018, 09:08 PM
So here are the results for the different strand tests:
1) I think I have very low porosity because after 45 minutes my hair was still floating on top of the water.
2) It snaps easily when I tried to stretch it to check the elasticity.
3) It hates coconut oil, olive oil and any kind of shea butter or cones. But I have to give it something with lots of slip because it tangles so easily. It kind of responded well to sweet almond oil and aloe vera gel. Mineral oil made it super curly ringlets (so I guess that means it reacted well to that?)
4) Dries pretty fast if I keep it loose, but takes forever if contained in any way.
5) Any amount of humidity will make it frizzy.

It’s like it is made of complete opposites of everything.

Jo Ann
October 18th, 2018, 10:31 PM
Does your shampoo or hair treatments contain protein? See if removing proteins in your shampoo and hair treatments (by this, I mean using products that do not contain proteins or proteins are listed very far down on the ingredient list) brings back the elasticity to your hair. Too much protein can be as bad as not enough protein.

If you haven't done so in a while, try a clarifying shampoo/treatment and see if that improves your hair's condition.

akurah
October 18th, 2018, 11:49 PM
So here are the results for the different strand tests:
1) I think I have very low porosity because after 45 minutes my hair was still floating on top of the water.
2) It snaps easily when I tried to stretch it to check the elasticity.
3) It hates coconut oil, olive oil and any kind of shea butter or cones. But I have to give it something with lots of slip because it tangles so easily. It kind of responded well to sweet almond oil and aloe vera gel. Mineral oil made it super curly ringlets (so I guess that means it reacted well to that?)
4) Dries pretty fast if I keep it loose, but takes forever if contained in any way.
5) Any amount of humidity will make it frizzy.

It’s like it is made of complete opposites of everything.

The hair porosity test that is commonly used is junk science. I don’t remember where I put my usual links, but here’s one explaining why it’s bunk: http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2013/01/junk-science-hair-porosity-tests-float.html?m=1

MusicalSpoons
October 19th, 2018, 04:56 AM
The hair porosity test that is commonly used is junk science. I don’t remember where I put my usual links, but here’s one explaining why it’s bunk: http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2013/01/junk-science-hair-porosity-tests-float.html?m=1

These may also be useful:

http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/hair-porosity-how-to-measure-sort-of.html

http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/porosity-in-hair.html

lapushka
October 19th, 2018, 05:21 AM
I am so sorry, I misunderstood you. Please accept my apology. Actually while still in the shower I kind of do the curly girl method of cupping the clumps that are hanging together and kind of squish the whole length as one unit to squish out the excess moisture. Then when I step out of the shower, I wrap it up in the turbie twist towel.

Oh OK! That's fine then! :thumbsup:

ladyfey
October 19th, 2018, 05:42 AM
I always washed mine at night and it would feel just as wet when I got up as when I went to bed. I think that is one of the things that made my seborrheic dermatitis so much worse. My hair/scalp was damp half the time. Now with super short hair that dries in a flash, scalp is happier. I am just considering growing it back out, but I plan on watching my scalp closely to see how it does.

lapushka
October 19th, 2018, 06:21 AM
I always washed mine at night and it would feel just as wet when I got up as when I went to bed. I think that is one of the things that made my seborrheic dermatitis so much worse. My hair/scalp was damp half the time. Now with super short hair that dries in a flash, scalp is happier. I am just considering growing it back out, but I plan on watching my scalp closely to see how it does.

That is the reason I diffuse it if I can for just 5 min. to make sure my roots are dry. I do towel dry for 15-30 min. and then airdry for 2-4H. A few weeks ago I air dried the whole way. I washed 10/11AM and by 1AM it was still damp in some places. Yeah, I can't do that with my SD.

Doreen
October 19th, 2018, 10:09 AM
The hair porosity test that is commonly used is junk science. I don’t remember where I put my usual links, but here’s one explaining why it’s bunk: http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2013/01/junk-science-hair-porosity-tests-float.html?m=1

Wow, thanks for the info akurah! I never knew this (obviously, or I wouldn't have posted that other link).

browneyedsusan
October 19th, 2018, 02:04 PM
Woah! The "hair porosity" test is bunk?!

Ok, then I have no idea what my hairs' porosity is! :p

Rosetta
October 22nd, 2018, 01:46 AM
I thought hair not drying when contained was a simple fact of life. Just like your laundry would stay damp if you leave it in a washing machine. If you want it to dry, then leave it loose, give it some air.
I've thought so too, and had the same experience myself (of fine hair not properly drying if it's contained), but in that case why is damp bunning / braiding so often recommended, and also done by so many (from what I've read here)..? Even those with fairly thick hair. That's just a bit puzzling to me.