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Ylva
August 9th, 2018, 09:02 AM
Hi!

I have been cone free since the start of this year, which was also the time when I turboboosted my knowledge regarding haircare and how hair actually works. I have a tendency to be an "all or nothing" type of person, and unsurprisingly, it happened with regards to the use of silicones.

Most of the time I'm pretty happy with my cone free hair, but I have a few silicone hair masks I'd like to use up, and in general it's pretty difficult to find conditioners and hair masks that meet my strict requirements in this country and especially in my area. There are the popular products that sell, and if you want something a bit different, you'll probably have to pay a lot of money for it. And sometimes I just miss the ease of silicone coated hair.

So I have some questions regarding the use of silicones in a hair routine like mine. I usually only wash my roots, often with sulfate free shampoo, so I am worried about buildup. I do clarify now and then, but it dries out my hair, so I prefer to do it as rarely as possible. I know it's individual, but would I be able to use silicone conditioners (not JUST silicones, though, but pretty high up on the list regardless) on my lengths and clarify maybe every two weeks? Will it significantly hinder the absorption of moisture into the hair shaft, if I have 2 weeks of silicone use on it? I also know there are differences in how well certain silicones are received by each head of hair, but unfortunately I don't have any data on that in my case.

I hope that made sense. Thanks in advance.

MusicalSpoons
August 9th, 2018, 09:24 AM
Hi!

I have been cone free since the start of this year, which was also the time when I turboboosted my knowledge regarding haircare and how hair actually works. I have a tendency to be an "all or nothing" type of person, and unsurprisingly, it happened with regards to the use of silicones.

Most of the time I'm pretty happy with my cone free hair, but I have a few silicone hair masks I'd like to use up, and in general it's pretty difficult to find conditioners and hair masks that meet my strict requirements in this country and especially in my area. There are the popular products that sell, and if you want something a bit different, you'll probably have to pay a lot of money for it. And sometimes I just miss the ease of silicone coated hair.

So I have some questions regarding the use of silicones in a hair routine like mine. I usually only wash my roots, often with sulfate free shampoo, so I am worried about buildup. I do clarify now and then, but it dries out my hair, so I prefer to do it as rarely as possible. I know it's individual, but would I be able to use silicone conditioners (not JUST silicones, though, but pretty high up on the list regardless) on my lengths and clarify maybe every two weeks? Will it significantly hinder the absorption of moisture into the hair shaft, if I have 2 weeks of silicone use on it? I also know there are differences in how well certain silicones are received by each head of hair, but unfortunately I don't have any data on that in my case.

I hope that made sense. Thanks in advance.

The bolded bit is exactly my experience too!

I don't know, to be honest, but something that might help are these posts:
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2016/05/detergents-which-remove-silicones.html
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2014/04/silicone-ingredient-solubility-list.html

You might be able to clarify your lengths with your existing sulphate-free shampoo, depending on the ingredients in the shampoo and in the serums/masks :) I do understand how you feel about clarifying though, because I kind of feel the same way! But really as long as you have a nice, deeply moisturising conditioner to use afterwards, it should be okay :flower:

elfynity
August 9th, 2018, 09:51 AM
I have researched, silicones alot and as a result have a very strong dislike for them - especially as a fine haired girl.

Silicones almost completely block moisture from getting into your hair. They slowly dehydrate your hair - but you can't see the damage. It is like a slow killer (like cigarette smoking - feels nice at the time, but you land up with lung cancer in the end).

They hide splits from view, so you don't realise they are there, and so suddenly your hair is split all the way up and you didn't see it coming. The non-water soluble kind also stays on your hair even after clarifying, it takes alot of washes to get it off.

You do get water soluable silicones that wash out everytime you shampoo. Those I would consider using if I needed to.

If it were me, I would recyle those products for something else, like maybe to soften clothing in your last rinse. Some peeps here love cones, and I don't know how they keep their hair moisturized and healthy, it may be good to get an opinion from them too.

UPDATE: All this has been from my experience so far with silicones, I am still learning about them.

nycelle
August 9th, 2018, 10:02 AM
I would go back to silicones in a heartbeat if I found a conditioner I like more than what I'm using now, and can give me long term frizz free hair.
To me, it doesn't make a difference since hair is dead. So anything I use or don't use only makes a difference in how it looks and acts.

Silicones can aslo benefit someone who's trying to grow their hair out but is prone to tangles no matter how much conditioning they do. I still haven't found anything silicone free that gives as much slip as silicone conditioners . This means I use more products now than I did, just to keep my hair slippery. Honest to God I'm <> close to going back to silicones.

You can use the products with silicone occasionally, I sometimes do. After months of being mostly silicone free I don't find the moisture levels in my hair are different on the few occasions I have used them. But if you're concerned, a good conditioning treatment right after you clarify should restore any lost moisture. I use a leave-in conditioner these days, as I find my hair as I find my hair does best with it (for additional slip and hydration), but I've always had hair on the dry side.

Dee94
August 9th, 2018, 10:28 AM
I have researched, silicones alot and as a result have a very strong dislike for them - especially as a fine haired girl.

Silicones almost completely block moisture from getting into your hair. They slowly dehydrate your hair - but you can't see the damage. It is like a slow killer (like cigarette smoking - feels nice at the time, but you land up with lung cancer in the end).

They hide splits from view, so you don't realise they are there, and so suddenly your hair is split all the way up and you didn't see it coming. The non-water soluble kind also stays on your hair even after clarifying, it takes alot of washes to get it off.

I was literally just wondering what silicones do to ones (or some) hair... I also got pretty fine hair. Thanks for explaining that!

elfynity
August 9th, 2018, 10:38 AM
No problem Dee94! I accidentally conditioned with dimethecone the other day in a panic to restore moisture to my ends, and so looked it up in a bit of horror about what I had put in my hair. I kind of get the feeling that only people with rather coarse hair can withstand silicone and perhaps even benefit and the rest of us have to sit on the porch.

MusicalSpoons
August 9th, 2018, 11:05 AM
I have researched, silicones alot and as a result have a very strong dislike for them - especially as a fine haired girl.

Silicones almost completely block moisture from getting into your hair. They slowly dehydrate your hair - but you can't see the damage. It is like a slow killer (like cigarette smoking - feels nice at the time, but you land up with lung cancer in the end).

They hide splits from view, so you don't realise they are there, and so suddenly your hair is split all the way up and you didn't see it coming. The non-water soluble kind also stays on your hair even after clarifying, it takes alot of washes to get it off.

Do you get water soluable silicones that wash out everytime you shampoo. Those I would consider using if I needed to.

If it were me, I would recyle those products for something else, like maybe to soften clothing in your last rinse. Some peeps here love cones, and I don't know how they keep their hair moisturized and healthy, it may be good to get an opinion from them too.


I was literally just wondering what silicones do to ones (or some) hair... I also got pretty fine hair. Thanks for explaining that!


No problem Dee94! I accidentally conditioned with dimethecone the other day in a panic to restore moisture to my ends, and so looked it up in a bit of horror about what I had put in my hair. I kind of get the feeling that only people with rather coarse hair can withstand silicone and perhaps even benefit and the rest of us have to sit on the porch.

I also thought this when I first started to learn about ingredients in hair care, but actually this isn't the whole story. This blog post (by a reliable scientist who is also a longhair) gives a slightly more balanced view: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/riffing-on-silicones.html

I personally don't use silicones, but MANY members here with long, beautiful, healthy heads of hair use them, spanning the whole range of hair types from babyfine to coarse - and actually there are some who simply cannot go without silicones to be able to keep their hair healthy enough to grow so long.

(I never thought I'd find myself defending silicones! :laugh: But there are very few ingredients in haircare or even skincare that truly are 'bad'; it's just a matter of being able to make educated decisions about what we use.)

elfynity
August 9th, 2018, 11:24 AM
I totally agree MusicalSpoons, you just got to see and feel what works best for you. Thanks for the very cool link. He doesn't recommend them for anyone who doesn't use shampoo or has fine hair - so that completely rules me out.

I like how he has a different view about the keeping water in theory.

Ligeia Noire
August 9th, 2018, 11:38 AM
I'll just say that I would have never been able to get to where I am at without silicones. My hair tangles when I sneeze I need all the slip I can get to be able to comb with the minimum damage and natural stuff simply does not do it for me. I do use smts and panacea too every couple of washes when I clarify and therefore keep the best of both worlds. My hair absorbs moisture just fine. But again as a 2b/2c with very tangly prone hair silicones are life savers. You don't even need to use full blown Pantene or something. I am washing with an organic brand lately called Acure and they have only one or two silicones and it works just fine. But again every head of hair reacts differently. I do notice that a lot of the very long haired ladies use silicones JJJ, Aliia, Gossamer, Karin and Torrin... so yeah

Dee94
August 9th, 2018, 11:59 AM
I'll just say that I would have never been able to get to where I am at without silicones. My hair tangles when I sneeze I need all the slip I can get to be able to comb with the minimum damage and natural stuff simply does not do it for me. I do use smts and panacea too every couple of washes when I clarify and therefore keep the best of both worlds. My hair absorbed moisture just fine. But again as a 2b/2c with very tangly prone hair silicones are life savers. You don't even need to use full blown Pantene or something. I am washing with an organic brand lately called Acure and they have only one or two silicones and it works just fine. But again every head of hair reacts differently. I do notice that a lot of the vrry long haired ladies use them JJJ, Aliia, Gossamer, Karin and Torrin... so yeah


So, silicones help with tangles? It does sound better when I hear ''Organic brand''. Interesting. :hmm: I wonder if I should try them or not...
Do you mind telling me what the 2 silicones are in the Acure brand? Are they the better kind of silicones? Are there even better kinds of silicons or are they all the same?
Thank you!

lucid
August 9th, 2018, 12:04 PM
No problem Dee94! I accidentally conditioned with dimethecone the other day in a panic to restore moisture to my ends, and so looked it up in a bit of horror about what I had put in my hair. I kind of get the feeling that only people with rather coarse hair can withstand silicone and perhaps even benefit and the rest of us have to sit on the porch.

I don't believe that this is true. Silicones can greatly benefit fine haired people because they strongly prevent mechanical damage. This becomes more important with increasing length.

Fine hair cannot withstand much mechanical damage, as the circumference of each strand is particularly small causing it to break or split much easier than courser hair.

Instead of disregarding all silicones, find silicones that benefit your hair. I use light silicones, and heavier if I'm doing activities that causes more tangles, such as dancing or hiking. I could go without silicones for a long time, but with added length I reverted back to them after a while. To me, it seems like this is quite common for long haired people that at shorter lengths could go without silicones in their conditioners.

lunasea
August 9th, 2018, 12:06 PM
I donít use shampoos and conditioners with cones but I do use BPTP hair glosses on damp hair and they have cyclomethicone. My understanding is that this cone evaporates and doesnít build up. Whatever. Iíve never had a problem with it. I wash my roots and let the shampoo drip to the ends as I rinse, but with sulfate free shampoos.

Ligeia Noire
August 9th, 2018, 01:20 PM
I am sorry I am not at home righ now but I know it is not all organic, you can check the brand easily online...I usually don't care enough to check specific names. But there are plenty of easily acessible brands like shea moisture that still give you good slip with a couple of silicones but a lot of natural stuff on them too and yes it does help with tangles and knots immensely because the hair has enough slip to just untangle with minimum combing. I mean at longer lengths your hair tangles more and the mechanical damage will just be irreversible and keep setting you back because you need to trim more. I can say that wearing my hair up and using silicones helped me tremendously. I used to trim four times a year. Now I trim once or twice. I still get splits because of my texture and combing but if you dont want to get longer than hip you probably can get by without them. And I mean not all of them build up and the ones that though you can just clarify... I love to get my hair some good nourishing ones but I still have my Pantene whenever I need that extra slip. The film It forms around your strands helps a lot against the elements too. Like in arid climates. So your hair dows not loose moisture because it blocks it from getting out.. which natural stuff cannot do anything about.
It is always a try and error thing. Commercial brands are not the devil and organic ones are not life savers. The solution is always in the middle.

Dee94
August 9th, 2018, 01:25 PM
I am sorry I am not at home righ now but I know it is not all organic but I don't care enough too check specific names. But there are plenty of more natural brands like shea moisture that still give you good slip with a couple of silicones and yes it does help with tangles and knots immensely because the hair has enough slip to just untangle with minimum combing. I mean at longer lengths your hair tangles more and the mechanical damage will just be irreversible and keep setting you back because you need to trim more. I can say that wearing my hair up and using silicones helped me tremendously. I used to trim four times a year. Now I trim once or twice. I still get splits because of my texture but if you dont want to get longer than hip you probably can get by without them. And I mean not all of them build up. And I love to get my hair some good nourishing ones but I still have my Pantene whenever I need that extra slip. It is always a try and error thing. Commercial brands are not the devil and organic ones are not life savers. The solution is always in the middle.

That's ok, thanks anyway! I think i may give them a try... not gunna hurt, right.

Ligeia Noire
August 9th, 2018, 01:27 PM
Sorry I edited my reply a bit but yeah it won't kill your hair or anything. It's dead anyway :p

Ylva
August 9th, 2018, 01:32 PM
A big thanks to everyone for your inputs so far!


The bolded bit is exactly my experience too!

I don't know, to be honest, but something that might help are these posts:
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2016/05/detergents-which-remove-silicones.html
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2014/04/silicone-ingredient-solubility-list.html

You might be able to clarify your lengths with your existing sulphate-free shampoo, depending on the ingredients in the shampoo and in the serums/masks :) I do understand how you feel about clarifying though, because I kind of feel the same way! But really as long as you have a nice, deeply moisturising conditioner to use afterwards, it should be okay :flower:

I have actually spent quite a while reading that blog, it's super useful and great!

I just find that the best thing for my hair is generally to almost never wash the lengths and just stick to washing the roots + using silicone free products which hardly build up. So this is a difficult decision to make, I don't want to waste products either and it could be worth a shot anyway. :)


The non-water soluble kind also stays on your hair even after clarifying, it takes alot of washes to get it off.

Do you get water soluable silicones that wash out everytime you shampoo. Those I would consider using if I needed to.

If it were me, I would recyle those products for something else, like maybe to soften clothing in your last rinse.

My understanding was that water insoluble silicones wash out with sulfates with relative ease, not requiring many washes, and water soluble ones wash out with water (the higher the number with PEG, the more water soluble). The silicones in my products are unfortunately water insoluble.

Soften clothing? Now I am confused. :)

lapushka
August 9th, 2018, 01:55 PM
I think you should be fine using a sulfate-free shampoo and then a sulfate one every 2 weeks. That's just my opinion, though.

I weekly wash and weekly sulfate wash, and use silicones on and off, depends on what my conditioner or mask is like (I hardly pay attention these days), and I never have issues.

Ylva
August 9th, 2018, 02:06 PM
I think you should be fine using a sulfate-free shampoo and then a sulfate one every 2 weeks. That's just my opinion, though.

I weekly wash and weekly sulfate wash, and use silicones on and off, depends on what my conditioner or mask is like (I hardly pay attention these days), and I never have issues.

I think I'm going to give it a shot, at least with these products I want to get rid of. Thanks!

I have pretty fine hair, which is generally relatively easy to brush due to being soft and silky. I hear that's not the ideal hair type for silicones, but I'm also very interested in seeing what my hair would feel like with silicones now that it's in much better condition than before. I'd be using them as a second conditioner on top of a hydrating cone free one.

lapushka
August 9th, 2018, 02:28 PM
I think I'm going to give it a shot, at least with these products I want to get rid of. Thanks!

I have pretty fine hair, which is generally relatively easy to brush due to being soft and silky. I hear that's not the ideal hair type for silicones, but I'm also very interested in seeing what my hair would feel like with silicones now that it's in much better condition than before. I'd be using them as a second conditioner on top of a hydrating cone free one.

I have F hair too, a lot of it, but it's F to babyfine (my white hairs). Try using less conditioner than you normally use for the silicone one. It should have more slip so you should automatically be able to use a little less. Or try using your non-silicone conditioner ears down to half-way, and then the silicone one on the very ends. This way you'll use it up too, but you'll weigh your hair down less... probably.

elfynity
August 9th, 2018, 02:44 PM
Soften clothing? Now I am confused. :)
Sometimes I recyle things that I don't want to use anymore for their original purpose, like all my sulphate soaps I now put in between my pillowcases in the linen cupboard so they have a really extra nice scent when I sleep on them. And my old sulphate shampoo I use to clean out my bath and brushes. I put my old 7 wonders hair oil that was too heavy in my hair into my body moisturizer cream, smells really incredible now and has extra oiling for my skin.

Ylva
August 9th, 2018, 03:09 PM
I have F hair too, a lot of it, but it's F to babyfine (my white hairs). Try using less conditioner than you normally use for the silicone one. It should have more slip so you should automatically be able to use a little less. Or try using your non-silicone conditioner ears down to half-way, and then the silicone one on the very ends. This way you'll use it up too, but you'll weigh your hair down less... probably.

Thank you very much for the advice! :)


Sometimes I recyle things that I don't want to use anymore for their original purpose, like all my sulphate soaps I now put in between my pillowcases in the linen cupboard so they have a really extra nice scent when I sleep on them. And my old sulphate shampoo I use to clean out my bath and brushes. I put my old 7 wonders hair oil that was too heavy in my hair into my body moisturizer cream, smells really incredible now and has extra oiling for my skin.

Indeed, I use disqualified sulfate shampoos to wash my brushes, too. I had just never heard of using conditioner to soften clothing. :)

Rowdy
August 9th, 2018, 03:28 PM
A big thanks to everyone for your inputs so far!



I have actually spent quite a while reading that blog, it's super useful and great!

I just find that the best thing for my hair is generally to almost never wash the lengths and just stick to washing the roots + using silicone free products which hardly build up. So this is a difficult decision to make, I don't want to waste products either and it could be worth a shot anyway. :)

---



We have very different hair but this is similar to what I have done for the past few years. Only clarify 1 - 2 times a year, only sulfate free shampoo the scalp and only condition (Aussie 7in1) the lengths. I have 2 silicone serums and 3 different oils that I use only on dry hair. So far it works for me, the last time I clarified + chelated and used no conditioner my hair still dried silky smooth all the way down.

Bryndhildr
August 9th, 2018, 05:34 PM
I personally don't use them at all now. My hair type differs from yours but I just prefer to cut them all out. What I have learned is there are supposed to be products with "water soluble" silicones in them. Generally those are best if one must use products with silicones in them. I don't have any specific product recommendations but you may be able to order through Lyko, Glamot, Feelunique.. that's where I find my silicone free hair products, there ought to be some of your faves there too. :)

TreesOfEternity
August 10th, 2018, 05:15 AM
I have fine, tangle prone hair. When I started taking care of it I went cone free as silicone products didn’t do much for my hair. But now that it’s in better condition after months of babying it cones prevent it from tangling and with oils, they help keeping moisture locked in.
My deep treatments are cone free but I finish with a coney conditioner and I am really liking the results. I guess you just have to listen to your hair and think that what it wants can change during time and seasons, lengths, etc.

Sarahlabyrinth
August 10th, 2018, 06:30 AM
I love my cones. My hair is fine, and you can see how long it has grown and I don't have split ends :)

LongCurlyTress
August 10th, 2018, 08:19 AM
Holy smokes!! I say silicones work fantastically with all the gorgeous length I am seeing here!! :popcorn: Sarahlabyrnth... knee length!!?? Super congrats!!! WOW!!

lapushka
August 10th, 2018, 08:31 AM
Holy smokes!! I say silicones work fantastically with all the gorgeous length I am seeing here!! :popcorn: Sarahlabyrnth... knee length!!?? Super congrats!!! WOW!!

Yeah she's been knee a while. I was classic when she was still hip to TBL, I think, and then I cut back to hip, and she wooshed past me. LOL ;) Not that we're competitive here. :p ;) But yes, her hair is amazing!

I am still using up what I have, most of those things have silicones to some degree, I think, bar a few products.

Soulina
August 10th, 2018, 08:37 AM
I like to uses little bit of cones. I wash cone free and after washing I use spray on my ends that has silicone's in it, I get the cones just were I need them. I have extremely fine over hip length hair. I think silicone's do not by them selves harm your hair, you just need to clarify every now and then.

Dee94
August 10th, 2018, 09:00 AM
Been keeping up with this post. I've been wanting to buy this product ( its a gel for after washing and all that) but it has a silicon in it... I'm a bit worried but kind of excited as it may help my curly tangled ends? If I get this product, should I buy a sulfate shampoo to get the cone out when its wash day? I wash once a week (Thursday is wash day) but if I were to buy a sulfate shampoo ( if you guys think I need it for the silicone gel) I would only wanna use it every second wash... What's your opinions? Heres the list of ingredients for the gel that I wanna buy, but, I'm not going to if there's more bad feedback than good. (Obviously).

List of ingredients in Osis+Bouncy curls curl gel

Ingredients: Aqua (Water, Eau), Propylene Glycol, Glycerin, Polyacrylate-1 Crosspolymer, Polyquaternium-72, Lactic Acid, PEG-12 Dimethicone, Phenoxyethanol, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, VP/DMAPA Acrylates Copolymer, Cetrimonium Chloride, PVP, Parfum (Fragrance), Sodium Chloride, Hexanediol, Panthenol, DMDM Hydantoin, PEG-14M, Citric Acid, Benzyl Alcohol, Benzalkonium Chloride, Ethylhexylglycerin, CI 17200 (Red 33).

nycelle
August 10th, 2018, 09:31 AM
Been keeping up with this post. I've been wanting to buy this product ( its a gel for after washing and all that) but it has a silicon in it... I'm a bit worried but kind of excited as it may help my curly tangled ends? If I get this product, should I buy a sulfate shampoo to get the cone out when its wash day? I wash once a week (Thursday is wash day) but if I were to buy a sulfate shampoo ( if you guys think I need it for the silicone gel) I would only wanna use it every second wash... What's your opinions? Heres the list of ingredients for the gel that I wanna buy, but, I'm not going to if there's more bad feedback than good. (Obviously).

List of ingredients in Osis+Bouncy curls curl gel

Ingredients: Aqua (Water, Eau), Propylene Glycol, Glycerin, Polyacrylate-1 Crosspolymer, Polyquaternium-72, Lactic Acid, PEG-12 Dimethicone, Phenoxyethanol, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, VP/DMAPA Acrylates Copolymer, Cetrimonium Chloride, PVP, Parfum (Fragrance), Sodium Chloride, Hexanediol, Panthenol, DMDM Hydantoin, PEG-14M, Citric Acid, Benzyl Alcohol, Benzalkonium Chloride, Ethylhexylglycerin, CI 17200 (Red 33).

It's a water soluble cone, you don't need a sulfate shampoo to wash it out. It will come out easy enough with any cowash.
Looks like a nice product. I added it to my list to try in the future.

Dee94
August 10th, 2018, 09:38 AM
It's a water soluble cone, you don't need a sulfate shampoo to wash it out. It will come out easy enough with any cowash.
Looks like a nice product. I added it to my list to try in the future.

Great, Thanks! :D

I know this is off topic... but where I live, we have well water and the shampoos/conditioners I have are all natural (no sulfate, no parabens, all that ''bad'' stuff) and I'm not sure if my shampoo, does a good enough job? Although, I don't feel no itching or dryness to the scalp, I mean my scalp feels fine but should I still get a sulfate shampoo to clean it up once and a while? Or do you think it'd be fine... (I only ask here and now cause I wanna buy it at the same time as the gel).
Thanks again!

leayellena
August 10th, 2018, 10:17 AM
I think the links in my hair blog may help you... It's quite of a research but I don't know the bad and good cones anymore (hence the blogging).
http://leayellena.blogspot.com/2017/05/cosmetic-products.html
I will use exclusively Coney conditioners from now on as I will soon reach tbl and my hair needs more slip.

Ylva
August 10th, 2018, 01:22 PM
Thanks again everyone. It's good to hear that some super long hairs do well on silicones.


I personally don't use them at all now. My hair type differs from yours but I just prefer to cut them all out. What I have learned is there are supposed to be products with "water soluble" silicones in them. Generally those are best if one must use products with silicones in them. I don't have any specific product recommendations but you may be able to order through Lyko, Glamot, Feelunique.. that's where I find my silicone free hair products, there ought to be some of your faves there too. :)

That's very true about water soluble silicones, unfortunately I'm having a really hard time finding conditioners like that. But I'll definitely have a look at those shops you suggested, they seem to have great selections!


I think silicone's do not by them selves harm your hair, you just need to clarify every now and then.

That they don't, no. I'm just worried that they'll hinder me from keeping my hair hydrated.


Been keeping up with this post. I've been wanting to buy this product ( its a gel for after washing and all that) but it has a silicon in it... I'm a bit worried but kind of excited as it may help my curly tangled ends? If I get this product, should I buy a sulfate shampoo to get the cone out when its wash day? I wash once a week (Thursday is wash day) but if I were to buy a sulfate shampoo ( if you guys think I need it for the silicone gel) I would only wanna use it every second wash... What's your opinions? Heres the list of ingredients for the gel that I wanna buy, but, I'm not going to if there's more bad feedback than good. (Obviously).

List of ingredients in Osis+Bouncy curls curl gel

Ingredients: Aqua (Water, Eau), Propylene Glycol, Glycerin, Polyacrylate-1 Crosspolymer, Polyquaternium-72, Lactic Acid, PEG-12 Dimethicone, Phenoxyethanol, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, VP/DMAPA Acrylates Copolymer, Cetrimonium Chloride, PVP, Parfum (Fragrance), Sodium Chloride, Hexanediol, Panthenol, DMDM Hydantoin, PEG-14M, Citric Acid, Benzyl Alcohol, Benzalkonium Chloride, Ethylhexylglycerin, CI 17200 (Red 33).

Looks good to me!

Dee94
August 10th, 2018, 01:47 PM
Looks good to me!

Thanks, Ylva! :flower:

goneJackal
August 10th, 2018, 02:28 PM
My silicone experience:

When I noticed buildup in my hair, I tried to go cone-free.
Found the right products and... my hair was a tangled mess!

I was very happy going cone-free, but my hair not so much, unfortunately.
So I went after water-soluble cones and good sulfate-free shampoos, and I think my hair has never been happier!

https://felipesv.websiteseguro.com/forum/k_blackhair.gif

lapushka
August 10th, 2018, 03:13 PM
Been keeping up with this post. I've been wanting to buy this product ( its a gel for after washing and all that) but it has a silicon in it... I'm a bit worried but kind of excited as it may help my curly tangled ends? If I get this product, should I buy a sulfate shampoo to get the cone out when its wash day? I wash once a week (Thursday is wash day) but if I were to buy a sulfate shampoo ( if you guys think I need it for the silicone gel) I would only wanna use it every second wash... What's your opinions? Heres the list of ingredients for the gel that I wanna buy, but, I'm not going to if there's more bad feedback than good. (Obviously).

List of ingredients in Osis+Bouncy curls curl gel

Ingredients: Aqua (Water, Eau), Propylene Glycol, Glycerin, Polyacrylate-1 Crosspolymer, Polyquaternium-72, Lactic Acid, PEG-12 Dimethicone, Phenoxyethanol, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, VP/DMAPA Acrylates Copolymer, Cetrimonium Chloride, PVP, Parfum (Fragrance), Sodium Chloride, Hexanediol, Panthenol, DMDM Hydantoin, PEG-14M, Citric Acid, Benzyl Alcohol, Benzalkonium Chloride, Ethylhexylglycerin, CI 17200 (Red 33).

There's glycerin in this gel, pretty high up on the list, which might not be good if you are in a humid climate. Otherwise there is dimethicone, which isn't water soluble and needs to come out ultimately with a sulfate. But I think washing every second wash with a sulfate would be *just fine*.

ETA: oops I just saw pure dimethicone and hadn't noticed the PEG-12 in front of it - it is soluble. No worries; sorry for panicking you!

Ylva
August 20th, 2018, 04:13 PM
I've made the decision to try and use up the old products. I just washed my hair (WCC), first using a very natural, hydrating, silicone free conditioner which I am a regular user of. Then as second conditioner I used a coney hair mask, which I remember I liked the feel of when I used it regularly. It gave good slip. Now my hair is air drying. Feeling both excited and scared. :D

lapushka
August 20th, 2018, 05:10 PM
I've made the decision to try and use up the old products. I just washed my hair (WCC), first using a very natural, hydrating, silicone free conditioner which I am a regular user of. Then as second conditioner I used a coney hair mask, which I remember I liked the feel of when I used it regularly. It gave good slip. Now my hair is air drying. Feeling both excited and scared. :D

I'm sure it will be fine. Next wash make it a good clean, and you should be good to go!

Ylva
August 20th, 2018, 05:32 PM
I'm sure it will be fine. Next wash make it a good clean, and you should be good to go!

Yeah! I haven't washed my lengths in a good while, so I think it should be okay to do that next time.

Milkchocolate
August 20th, 2018, 09:19 PM
Iíve used silicone free conditioners with natural ingredients on the list like shea butter, avocado oils, jojoba, coconut energy etc , and although theyíre good...they can make my hair feel coarse the next day or few. Plus tangles like crazy!! Tangles means hair loss to me. And the soft feeling doesnít seem to last.

But I used a product with some silicones high on the list recently and it made my hair feel more softer, manageable, tangle free, flattened my flyaways, and an overal healthy, sleeker, juicier and neater appearance.

I avoided silicone products for a while, but overall I didnít like the experience very much. I have no problem with silicones at all. Perhaps itís just because of my coarser texture :) I know a lot of people are very against silicones, but Iíve got no problem! In fact I love it! I wash my hair twice a week with clarifying shampoo, and I donít go overboard on the amount of silicone conditioner. I find that a little goes a long way. Silicone in moderation :)

Alissalocks
August 20th, 2018, 11:33 PM
I love silicones. In my dry climate, they've helped tremendously as a small part of my overall routine. Everyone is different. The science-y blog is a great resource!

Sarahlabyrinth
August 21st, 2018, 12:59 AM
Holy smokes!! I say silicones work fantastically with all the gorgeous length I am seeing here!! :popcorn: Sarahlabyrnth... knee length!!?? Super congrats!!! WOW!!


Yeah she's been knee a while. I was classic when she was still hip to TBL, I think, and then I cut back to hip, and she wooshed past me. LOL ;) Not that we're competitive here. :p ;) But yes, her hair is amazing!

I am still using up what I have, most of those things have silicones to some degree, I think, bar a few products.

Hehe, thank you both, I only just saw this :o :)

Lady Stardust
August 21st, 2018, 02:10 AM
Great, Thanks! :D

I know this is off topic... but where I live, we have well water and the shampoos/conditioners I have are all natural (no sulfate, no parabens, all that ''bad'' stuff) and I'm not sure if my shampoo, does a good enough job? Although, I don't feel no itching or dryness to the scalp, I mean my scalp feels fine but should I still get a sulfate shampoo to clean it up once and a while? Or do you think it'd be fine... (I only ask here and now cause I wanna buy it at the same time as the gel).
Thanks again!

It would probably be worth using a chelating shampoo once a month or once a fortnight. A chelating shampoo removes mineral build up that you get in hard water areas, and I might be wrong but I think that can include well water. Chelating shampoos are often marketed at swimmers, to remove chlorine.

I usually do a deep conditioning treatment after chelating.

Ylva
August 21st, 2018, 03:27 PM
Okay. After using this silicone mask on top of my usual conditoiner in an attempt to get rid of it, my hair doesn't feel good at all. It feels coarse (normally silky and soft) and it's difficult to brush through the ends. It looks terrible in comparison to my usual hair mask, damaged even. My hair is in MUCH better condition than when I actually used this mask, and I remember liking it! I really don't know what is going on, but am I allowed to say my hair doesn't like silicones?!


Iíve used silicone free conditioners with natural ingredients on the list like shea butter, avocado oils, jojoba, coconut energy etc , and although theyíre good...they can make my hair feel coarse the next day or few. Plus tangles like crazy!! Tangles means hair loss to me. And the soft feeling doesnít seem to last.

This seems to be my most recent experience, too. Except this mask in question (described above) didn't have many natural ingredients... In fact, water and glycerin were the only "good" ingredients I could spot.

MusicalSpoons
August 21st, 2018, 03:40 PM
Okay. After using this silicone mask on top of my usual conditoiner in an attempt to get rid of it, my hair doesn't feel good at all. It feels coarse (normally silky and soft) and it's difficult to brush through the ends. It looks terrible in comparison to my usual hair mask, damaged even. My hair is in MUCH better condition than when I actually used this mask, and I remember liking it! I really don't know what is going on, but am I allowed to say my hair doesn't like silicones?!



This seems to be my most recent experience, too. Except this mask in question (described above) didn't have many natural ingredients... In fact, water and glycerin were the only "good" ingredients I could spot.

Interesting! It could be that your hair used to need whatever's in the mask, but not any more - whether that's the silicones, or some of the other ingredients. Did you use it on top of conditioner before? (Might seem an obvious question, but still worth asking :flower: )

I've recently been using a fairly rich conditioner with PEG-something-dimethicone which my hair previously found a bit too much, and currently seems to love it! But another rich conditioner with amodimethicone is still too much for my ends, leaving them kind of oily and a bit sticky. Eh :shrug:

Ylva
August 21st, 2018, 03:53 PM
Interesting! It could be that your hair used to need whatever's in the mask, but not any more - whether that's the silicones, or some of the other ingredients. Did you use it on top of conditioner before? (Might seem an obvious question, but still worth asking :flower: )

I've recently been using a fairly rich conditioner with PEG-something-dimethicone which my hair previously found a bit too much, and currently seems to love it! But another rich conditioner with amodimethicone is still too much for my ends, leaving them kind of oily and a bit sticky. Eh :shrug:

Must have been the silicone then, because there is hardly anything else in it that my hair could need. :D No natural oils what so ever... Water and glycerine are the only good ingredients that I can see. I did use it on top of a conditioner before, yes, but the conditioner was also coney.

Maybe it would be worth it for me to test some other silicones as well, this one was amodimethicone, I think. I have one with dimethicone as well that I need to use up, but not sure if I want to after this experience.

lapushka
August 21st, 2018, 04:45 PM
Must have been the silicone then, because there is hardly anything else in it that my hair could need. :D No natural oils what so ever... Water and glycerine are the only good ingredients that I can see. I did use it on top of a conditioner before, yes, but the conditioner was also coney.

Maybe it would be worth it for me to test some other silicones as well, this one was amodimethicone, I think. I have one with dimethicone as well that I need to use up, but not sure if I want to after this experience.

Could also be that you have build up since you mentioned not having washed your lengths in a while in a separate thread. :flower: I would do some more research and a heck of a lot more trying before just coming to the conclusion that it has to be the silicones. It can of course very well be, but just to use something once on hair that has probably built up... IDK. :flower:

Ylva
August 21st, 2018, 05:42 PM
Could also be that you have build up since you mentioned not having washed your lengths in a while in a separate thread. :flower: I would do some more research and a heck of a lot more trying before just coming to the conclusion that it has to be the silicones. It can of course very well be, but just to use something once on hair that has probably built up... IDK. :flower:

It had been about two weeks since I had washed the lengths. I use products which don't really build up very much, exactly for the reason that I don't like to wash my hair. I could go longer without needing to wash my lengths. But looking at the ingredients of this product, it's not something I'd want to use on my hair anyway, I was just surprised by exactly how terrible the result was.

nycelle
August 21st, 2018, 06:02 PM
Your results are a-typical of using silicones.

Like other have said, it could of been just about any ingredient in that mask, or a combination of things that caused it.
But I doubt it was strictly the silicone. In fact, I get that reaction when a conditioner (or shampoo, or combo, etc) has too much protein.

I'm also silicone free, and there's a definitely a difference in how my hair feels with and without, but one thing's for certain, silicone conditioners give better slip so what happened to you probably wasn't the result of amodimethicone.

Ylva
August 21st, 2018, 06:52 PM
Your results are a-typical of using silicones.

Like other have said, it could of been just about any ingredient in that mask, or a combination of things that caused it.
But I doubt it was strictly the silicone. In fact, I get that reaction when a conditioner (or shampoo, or combo, etc) has too much protein.

I'm also silicone free, and there's a definitely a difference in how my hair feels with and without, but one thing's for certain, silicone conditioners give better slip so what happened to you probably wasn't the result of amodimethicone.

Yes, of course I don't blame purely the silicone, like I've mentioned many times already in this thread in just my more recent messages, the mask is terrible altogether. It's also not the only silicone product I've tried in my day. There's also a strong pattern in what coney products tend to contain in a country with little selection, especially in smaller places. Thus I order my usual products online.

When my hair was wet, I noticed the slip and was feeling positive about the product, but the more my hair dried, the more terrible it became.

Either way, I've already stated I won't be reusing this product purely because of its ingredients alone, and I would appreciate it if people respected my ability of judging for myself enough to accept this decision. After all, I'm the one carrying this hair and I know how it behaves and feels in general.

Ylva
August 21st, 2018, 06:57 PM
Also, if a product is so specific that I simply cannot have x amount of unnoticeable buildup on my hair without the result being a total mess, then it's absolutely not for me and I'll happily pass on it.

Chromis
August 21st, 2018, 07:45 PM
Not all of us with very long hair like silicones. I tried a few years back switching to water-based silicones because I was tired of the high cost of getting shampoo bars to Canada that I like. It seemed fine at first, but I landed up with soooo many splits. My hair just does not get on with them at all. Went back to my bars and am happy as a clam.

Last month while we were selling our house I was tired and we'd been moving around from place to place since we couldn't go home while it was showing and I was exhausted and used the stuff in their washroom. What a nightmare! It's taken my hair a month to feel normal again. Clearly I had not learned my lesson. Lesson learned now.

Shampoo bars of course are not for everyone either. For every washing method here you will find people who love or loathe it basically.

Milkchocolate
August 21st, 2018, 08:18 PM
This seems to be my most recent experience, too. Except this mask in question (described above) didn't have many natural ingredients... In fact, water and glycerin were the only "good" ingredients I could spot.

Hmm I donít what specific mask youíre referring to. What I meant was that I tried a lot of different masks with those specific ingredients

Longlegs
August 21st, 2018, 08:45 PM
I think your plan of clarifying every couple of weeks is good, if you are using silicones then I don't think a sulfate-free cleanser will be enough to remove them. I know how you feel because I am not using silicones and have very frizzy hair. Even when my hair was in peak condition - coloured with nothing but Henna it was still frizzy. I don't use heated styling tools and only wash with a sulfate free shampoo once a week but my hair is still frizzy. I have to accept now that I will always have frizz to some degree if I avoid silicones. That's just the way my hair is.

nycelle
August 22nd, 2018, 09:25 AM
Yes, of course I don't blame purely the silicone, like I've mentioned many times already in this thread in just my more recent messages, the mask is terrible altogether. It's also not the only silicone product I've tried in my day. There's also a strong pattern in what coney products tend to contain in a country with little selection, especially in smaller places. Thus I order my usual products online.

When my hair was wet, I noticed the slip and was feeling positive about the product, but the more my hair dried, the more terrible it became.

Either way, I've already stated I won't be reusing this product purely because of its ingredients alone, and I would appreciate it if people respected my ability of judging for myself enough to accept this decision. After all, I'm the one carrying this hair and I know how it behaves and feels in general.

Was it a protein rich mask? (After what happened to me with too much protein, I blame everything on it these days..lol)

zashin66
August 22nd, 2018, 11:52 AM
I think your plan of clarifying every couple of weeks is good, if you are using silicones then I don't think a sulfate-free cleanser will be enough to remove them. I know how you feel because I am not using silicones and have very frizzy hair. Even when my hair was in peak condition - coloured with nothing but Henna it was still frizzy. I don't use heated styling tools and only wash with a sulfate free shampoo once a week but my hair is still frizzy. I have to accept now that I will always have frizz to some degree if I avoid silicones. That's just the way my hair is.

Yep me too.....I want silky and smooth so have just given up and dive into the silicone loaded stuff. My hair feels great and behaves great and continues to stay strong and grow. I count my blessings for that.:eyebrows:

zashin66
August 22nd, 2018, 11:55 AM
Was it a protein rich mask? (After what happened to me with too much protein, I blame everything on it these days..lol)
(Adorable puppies in your avatar by the way):puppy::love::waving:

nycelle
August 22nd, 2018, 12:40 PM
(Adorable puppies in your avatar by the way):puppy::love::waving:

Aww.. thank you.. :flower: .. love my fur babies. They're spoiled rotten though..lol

Ylva
August 22nd, 2018, 02:17 PM
Hmm I don’t what specific mask you’re referring to. What I meant was that I tried a lot of different masks with those specific ingredients

Yes, that's how I understood it as well. :) The mask I used this time was something by L'orťal.


I think your plan of clarifying every couple of weeks is good, if you are using silicones then I don't think a sulfate-free cleanser will be enough to remove them. I know how you feel because I am not using silicones and have very frizzy hair. Even when my hair was in peak condition - coloured with nothing but Henna it was still frizzy. I don't use heated styling tools and only wash with a sulfate free shampoo once a week but my hair is still frizzy. I have to accept now that I will always have frizz to some degree if I avoid silicones. That's just the way my hair is.

Ah, my experience is actually the opposite, that I get more frizz using silicone than without. :) Generally I don't have frizzy hair at all, except before I brush it the first time after washing it when it is dry. My hair is pretty easy overall.


Was it a protein rich mask? (After what happened to me with too much protein, I blame everything on it these days..lol)

No, it had no protein in it what so ever. My hair actually likes protein, so it's not a problem for me.

Ylva
August 22nd, 2018, 02:20 PM
Update on the hair:

It has actually felt better today than it did initially after drying and during the first 24 hours after washing. Today it was easier to brush through the ends, but still not quite how it feels with my usual products. There's still more frizz and it feels dry and bleh.

lapushka
August 23rd, 2018, 06:17 AM
Yes, of course I don't blame purely the silicone, like I've mentioned many times already in this thread in just my more recent messages, the mask is terrible altogether. It's also not the only silicone product I've tried in my day. There's also a strong pattern in what coney products tend to contain in a country with little selection, especially in smaller places. Thus I order my usual products online.

When my hair was wet, I noticed the slip and was feeling positive about the product, but the more my hair dried, the more terrible it became.

Either way, I've already stated I won't be reusing this product purely because of its ingredients alone, and I would appreciate it if people respected my ability of judging for myself enough to accept this decision. After all, I'm the one carrying this hair and I know how it behaves and feels in general.

I'm sure no one meant to upset you, but it's "easy" to blame silicones, was my point, when it could have been any number of factors. But if you are going back to silicone-free because of it, no one is going to stop you. :flower:

Ylva
August 23rd, 2018, 09:03 AM
I'm sure no one meant to upset you, but it's "easy" to blame silicones, was my point, when it could have been any number of factors. But if you are going back to silicone-free because of it, no one is going to stop you. :flower:

Like I wrote earlier, it wasn't only the silicone that I "blamed", but stated that the whole mask was terrible in terms of ingredients. And like I also wrote, that's how silicone products tend to be here. It's nearly impossible for me to walk into the local market and find a cone product that otherwise contains decent ingredients.

MusicalSpoons
August 23rd, 2018, 10:33 AM
Like I wrote earlier, it wasn't only the silicone that I "blamed", but stated that the whole mask was terrible in terms of ingredients. And like I also wrote, that's how silicone products tend to be here. It's nearly impossible for me to walk into the local market and find a cone product that otherwise contain decent ingredients.

That's a shame, though I suppose in a way it might make things simpler, in that you know if you go for decent products you don't have to worry about cones :flower:

Ylva
August 23rd, 2018, 02:59 PM
That's a shame, though I suppose in a way it might make things simpler, in that you know if you go for decent products you don't have to worry about cones :flower:

Unfortunately it doesn't, I still have to search for ingredient lists online and all that when ordering stuff, because I can't find decent products in any physical store close to me, and if I do find them somewhere, they cost a looooooot. But that's Finland :)

MusicalSpoons
August 23rd, 2018, 04:23 PM
Unfortunately it doesn't, I still have to search for ingredient lists online and all that when ordering stuff, because I can't find decent products in any physical store close to me, and if I do find them somewhere, they cost a looooooot. But that's Finland :)

Ah I see. I suppose living anywhere has its pros and cons (though it's not as if most of us have a choice :laugh: ). We do have a decent selection of haircare products in the UK but I often wish we had the choice of products that the US has; I don't think anything would entice me to move there though!

Ylva
August 23rd, 2018, 04:32 PM
Ah I see. I suppose living anywhere has its pros and cons (though it's not as if most of us have a choice :laugh: ). We do have a decent selection of haircare products in the UK but I often wish we had the choice of products that the US has; I don't think anything would entice me to move there though!

Hah, yes! I was watching one video of two girls shopping for cone free products in a regular grocery store market thing the US and my eyes were bulging out of their sockets, so much selection! And the prices are incredible. I'd have to pay at least double for those products and equivalent ones here.

MusicalSpoons
August 23rd, 2018, 04:39 PM
Hah, yes! I was watching one video of two girls shopping for cone free products in a regular grocery store market thing the US and my eyes were bulging out of their sockets, so much selection! And the prices are incredible. I'd have to pay at least double for those products and equivalent ones here.

I know it costs money for sellers to import products, but it does really annoy me that certain things are available from overseas ... for 2-3x the price ... plus shipping on top - it takes a budget or mid-range product into the price range of premium :shake: not happening!