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Five of Five
June 1st, 2018, 08:53 PM
Does anyone have any experience with these types of "split ends?"

After having reached my goal at LHC, I got rather tired of my long hair and the benign neglect turned into just neglect. Wearing my hair down a lot, using the blow-dryer, allowing children to play with my hair, sometimes using a plastic comb with seams, and never oiling.

Now in my top canopy, even after a cut back to BSL, I have a lot of hairs that are really crinkled and/or rough compared to the rest of my hair, which when healthy is baby fine and silky. Some of the roughness or crinkles go all the way up, and others are in spots of varying sizes down the hair shaft before returning to the normal texture. It also seems to tangle a lot more easily than the rest of my hair. I have very few if any actual split ends, but these are very numerous in my top layer.

What could be the cause of these "splits," and what can I do about them now? I know that eventually I will need to grow or shed them out, but in the mean time, will they damage the rest of my hair? I've been doing a lot of S & D, but I think it is bad for my mental health and it would probably end up giving me unwanted layers. I don't mind cutting back further if necessary, but I'd like to have healthy hair at whatever length I have - especially if I decide to grow it out again!

Thank you for any help :p

ETA: here is a picture for reference. The bottom hair is a random shed strand, and the top is one of the worst examples of the issue I could find. It feels much worse than it looks.

https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31956&d=1527976399

Dark40
June 1st, 2018, 09:01 PM
What I would do is microtrimming a little at a time until all of your split ends have grown out.

Meggypoo
June 1st, 2018, 11:14 PM
I've gotten these - I know exactly what you are talking about. In my case, the crinkles are always due to mechanical damage, specifically caused by the hair being stretched without breaking.


I'm a materials engineer, so I like to describe this in terms of elasticity and plasticity. Elastic deformation is not permanent and occurs in your hair when you stretch it a little and it springs back into its normal shape. There's no permanent damage or change to the hair structure. However, if you stretch your hair too far, it plastically deforms, leading to permanent damage. In my experience this permanent damage is that crinkle shape you described.

In my case, the most important things I do to my hair to avoid plastic deformation are:

- avoiding hair elastics entirely except at the very end of braids
- only brushing with a brush that won't catch and rip out tangles. My favorite is the Wet Brush
- making sure my hair doesn't get caught under the straps of my purse or backpack.

AutobotsAttack
June 1st, 2018, 11:48 PM
I get zig zag crinkles if my hair has been bent in some weird way. Like a scrunchie or tiny clips. So I try to not use those

Five of Five
June 2nd, 2018, 12:02 AM
Thank you all so much for your insights! So glad I am not the only one who gets them. I will definitely microtrim and avoid using hairbands near the nape.

Meggypoo that is really interesting information. I think this explains why I got a whole lot all of a sudden. I started sectioning my hair in the shower with a comb because it was difficult to get it all wet and clean when it was longer. I was probably stretching the hair a lot more often because of all of the extra manipulation when wet. I can't believe such a simple change could have had such an impact!

Lanalavallama
June 2nd, 2018, 01:37 AM
I've gotten these - I know exactly what you are talking about. In my case, the crinkles are always due to mechanical damage, specifically caused by the hair being stretched without breaking.


I'm a materials engineer, so I like to describe this in terms of elasticity and plasticity. Elastic deformation is not permanent and occurs in your hair when you stretch it a little and it springs back into its normal shape. There's no permanent damage or change to the hair structure. However, if you stretch your hair too far, it plastically deforms, leading to permanent damage. In my experience this permanent damage is that crinkle shape you described.

In my case, the most important things I do to my hair to avoid plastic deformation are:

- avoiding hair elastics entirely except at the very end of braids
- only brushing with a brush that won't catch and rip out tangles. My favorite is the Wet Brush
- making sure my hair doesn't get caught under the straps of my purse or backpack.

Very interesting.

And how would you classify/describe heat styling and its effects on hair?

Sorry to derail OP, but meggypoo's answer got me intrigued!

I get the crinkly strands too, and wonder if heat styling may cause it. I have heat styled my hair, but it has never displayed the "classic" signs of heat damage : looser curl pattern, irregular strand shape.

I even thought Henna use could be the culprit!

Meggypoo
June 2nd, 2018, 02:03 AM
Heat damage to hair can take a lot of forms; Most damage at lower temperature is related to cuticle damage, which is on the surface of the hair shaft. At very, very high temperatures however, damage can include change to the protein structure. At 200C (390F), the protein structure of the hair shaft cortex can undergo a phase transformation from alpha to beta, which is permanent and causes that curl-loosening some women describe if they use hair straighteners at the maximum heat setting. I've also noticed some people really yank on their hair with hair straighteners which can cause mechanical damage as well. Personally, I rarely straighten but when I do the damage is almost always splits rather than crinkles. It's interesting that you have seen the opposite!

All that said, my specialty is metallurgy, not hair :laugh: so somebody else here probably knows more.

Lanalavallama
June 2nd, 2018, 02:57 AM
Heat damage to hair can take a lot of forms; Most damage at lower temperature is related to cuticle damage, which is on the surface of the hair shaft. At very, very high temperatures however, damage can include change to the protein structure. At 200C (390F), the protein structure of the hair shaft cortex can undergo a phase transformation from alpha to beta, which is permanent and causes that curl-loosening some women describe if they use hair straighteners at the maximum heat setting. I've also noticed some people really yank on their hair with hair straighteners which can cause mechanical damage as well. Personally, I rarely straighten but when I do the damage is almost always splits rather than crinkles. It's interesting that you have seen the opposite!

All that said, my specialty is metallurgy, not hair :laugh: so somebody else here probably knows more.

Thanks for your informative comment.
I am not sure it is heat damage...not too sure what it is at the moment!

Appreciate you taking the trouble to answer.

Five of Five
June 2nd, 2018, 04:26 AM
Thanks for your informative comment.
I am not sure it is heat damage...not too sure what it is at the moment!

Appreciate you taking the trouble to answer.

I hope you find the culprit soon!

Perhaps it could be how you are manipulating your hair when it is wet, as I think is the problem with my routine :o Could be a fine hair thing, too.

Guitargod
June 2nd, 2018, 05:29 AM
I can definitely vouch for hair elastics causing those issues. I also have a short layer of hair with a lot of crinkles on top of my head. It has quite a few splits and used to be even worse before I started S&D and stopped wearing a ponytail.
Since then (around January) it has grown quite a bit but has a lot to catch up to of course.
I would recommend S&D over microtrimming unless you want a visible layer.

Lanalavallama
June 2nd, 2018, 06:41 AM
I hope you find the culprit soon!

Perhaps it could be how you are manipulating your hair when it is wet, as I think is the problem with my routine :o Could be a fine hair thing, too.

I think you may be right.
Thank you. I hope we resolve our fine hair issues soon!

lapushka
June 2nd, 2018, 06:58 AM
I think the crinkles you might be explaining are different textures and that is completely normal to have! If they are the entire hair, it's a different texture, not a split, so be careful with what you do!

If it's different texture I would leave it alone.

Also, a picture would help!

TreesOfEternity
June 2nd, 2018, 08:09 AM
Yes a picture would be helpful! As someone with fine hair myself hairs being over stretched and damage from elastics or bobby pins can have that effect.

Lanalavallama
June 2nd, 2018, 09:00 AM
I think the crinkles you might be explaining are different textures and that is completely normal to have! If they are the entire hair, it's a different texture, not a split, so be careful with what you do!

If it's different texture I would leave it alone.

Also, a picture would help!

Hmmm

There are some hairs that are coarse from root to tip.

OP describes strands like that, as well as strands that feel crinkly on one part and then smoother further along the shaft.

I think those crinkly bits, on strands that feel smoother further along, are signs of damage. Almost like splits waiting to happen, and the more I think about it, the more I think it could be because of mechanical damage as has been suggested.

Five of Five
June 2nd, 2018, 03:55 PM
I'm certain they are damage and not natural variation in my hair texture, because even the ones (very few) that go all the way up have variation in the hair strand, and also, I've only noticed them in the last few months.

This is the clearest picture I could take. The bottom strand is a random shed hair, and the top is one of the most crinkled strands I could find. It is very difficult to see even in person, but there is a huge difference in feel:


https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31956&d=1527976399

lapushka
June 2nd, 2018, 04:03 PM
That is a little odd; I can see it! It for sure must feel different if you run fingers over the strand.

I still would leave them alone. Are they gray strands?

Five of Five
June 2nd, 2018, 04:14 PM
Glad you can see the difference, Lapushka! It's a very light blonde, close to the colour of a baby chicken.

lapushka
June 2nd, 2018, 04:26 PM
Is your hair dyed, heat styled (previous damage?), or could anything you think of have caused this?

Sometimes it's the cuticle and the products you ingest. Medicine?

Five of Five
June 2nd, 2018, 04:31 PM
No bleach or dye or direct heat, but I do use a blow-dryer quite often.

I wonder if it might also be kids playing with my hair that could have done it - they can be quite rough with it, sometimes running objects up and down it (which perhaps shredded some strands) and a few times, a child actually pulled on my hair to stop them falling over. That is one of the major reasons I had a cut - it can be very difficult to stop them from touching my hair when I am otherwise occupied!

lapushka
June 2nd, 2018, 04:37 PM
No bleach or dye or direct heat, but I do use a blow-dryer quite often.

I wonder if it might also be kids playing with my hair that could have done it - they can be quite rough with it, sometimes running objects up and down it (which perhaps shredded some strands) and a few times, a child actually pulled on my hair to stop them falling over. That is one of the major reasons I had a cut - it can be very difficult to stop them from touching my hair when I am otherwise occupied!

If you use low heat (warmth or cool temps) on the blow dryer, then that can't be it. I use a diffuser weekly and that is not something I have ever encountered *ever* in my life.

Yeah, why on earth would you have kids running objects through your hair though. That is mad! :lol:

Can you do updos yet? If so, I would wear updos near the kids. :flower:

Five of Five
June 2nd, 2018, 04:49 PM
If you use low heat (warmth or cool temps) on the blow dryer, then that can't be it. I use a diffuser weekly and that is not something I have ever encountered *ever* in my life.

Yeah, why on earth would you have kids running objects through your hair though. That is mad! :lol:

Can you do updos yet? If so, I would wear updos near the kids. :flower:

Glad to know it isn't the blow dryer! I definitely can't stand sleeping in cold, damp hair.

I usually wear my hair in a braid to work as buns tend to fall out very easily. Sounds like I need to find a bun style that holds up and that they can't pull on easily. At home I wear hair sticks, but at work the kids could easily pull them out. I think I will have to be more vigilant about what is going on behind me, and make a rule that my hair is off-limits now. If that is the cause, then I'll end up with no hair left :p

MusicalSpoons
June 2nd, 2018, 05:28 PM
Glad to know it isn't the blow dryer! I definitely can't stand sleeping in cold, damp hair.

I usually wear my hair in a braid to work as buns tend to fall out very easily. Sounds like I need to find a bun style that holds up and that they can't pull on easily. At home I wear hair sticks, but at work the kids could easily pull them out. I think I will have to be more vigilant about what is going on behind me, and make a rule that my hair is off-limits now. If that is the cause, then I'll end up with no hair left :p

Hmm, could you bun the braid? (I don't know what's possible at BSL.) I hear disc buns might be a possibility at your length, and some do half-ups bunned with the other half of the hair wrapped round. Or double buns. Or fold your braid up and clip it, with a claw clip or flexi-8 or something? Spin pins might be good too; completely out of pulling reach :) And perhaps less inviting to run objects up it! (I work with kids who are not all that young, but I totally get how it happens! ETA: Resistance really can be futile :wink:)

As for your original post, my first thought was texture change too, but if it is in small parts of strands then it likely is something else, like damage. I think combing in the shower might be a good candidate if it's a fine-toothed comb, and/or has seams or other snaggy bits, or if you are pulling through tangles rather than stopping to separate them (wet or dry).

Five of Five
June 2nd, 2018, 05:45 PM
Hmm, could you bun the braid? (I don't know what's possible at BSL.) I hear disc buns might be a possibility at your length, and some do half-ups bunned with the other half of the hair wrapped round. Or double buns. Or fold your braid up and clip it, with a claw clip or flexi-8 or something? Spin pins might be good too; completely out of pulling reach :) And perhaps less inviting to run objects up it! (I work with kids who are not all that young, but I totally get how it happens! ETA: Resistance really can be futile :wink:)

As for your original post, my first thought was texture change too, but if it is in small parts of strands then it likely is something else, like damage. I think combing in the shower might be a good candidate if it's a fine-toothed comb, and/or has seams or other snaggy bits, or if you are pulling through tangles rather than stopping to separate them (wet or dry).

Thanks for the suggestions! I just got it cut back to BSL a couple of days ago, and I'm actually amazed that I can still do a lot of buns at this length. Spin pins are a great idea since they are invisible.

You are right - I think buns would be far less inviting, and a braided bun should be really secure. I think even making a rule not to touch my hair any more might be a good exercise in personal boundaries as well (I don't really mind people touching my hair, but if it is the culprit, I don't want to take the chance)!

It sounds like my washing routine is too rough as well. I've bought a wooden comb which I hope helps.

Thanks again!

_fred_
June 3rd, 2018, 01:55 AM
Just chipping in after seeing the photo you posted - I have a few strands like that, and some which are smooth almost all the way down and then crazy jagged and bent in all directions right at the ends. The latter I put down to heat damage from when my stylist used straighteners on me (a year and a half ago now, but my hair's only just got long enough that I can S&D the back. I found the ones at the front straight away and got rid of them long ago!). As for the ones that are relatively straight but have a crinkle texture in parts, like the photo you posted, I have a feeling these mechanical damage from brushing while wet, though heat could easily be a culprit there too. I stopped wet brushing quite a few months back, and although I find the odd one every so often, they're nowhere near as prevalent as they used to be!

Best of luck enforcing the hair boundary with the little ones at work! And I hope the wooden comb works as well for you as it has done for me. :blossom:

Five of Five
June 3rd, 2018, 02:23 AM
Just chipping in after seeing the photo you posted - I have a few strands like that, and some which are smooth almost all the way down and then crazy jagged and bent in all directions right at the ends. The latter I put down to heat damage from when my stylist used straighteners on me (a year and a half ago now, but my hair's only just got long enough that I can S&D the back. I found the ones at the front straight away and got rid of them long ago!). As for the ones that are relatively straight but have a crinkle texture in parts, like the photo you posted, I have a feeling these mechanical damage from brushing while wet, though heat could easily be a culprit there too. I stopped wet brushing quite a few months back, and although I find the odd one every so often, they're nowhere near as prevalent as they used to be!

Best of luck enforcing the hair boundary with the little ones at work! And I hope the wooden comb works as well for you as it has done for me. :blossom:

Thank you for the kind words. It is really encouraging to hear that you reduced the number drastically by not brushing wet anymore and using the wooden comb! Glad you found the culprit really quickly.

Best of luck to you, too, on your hair journey :heartbeat

Lanalavallama
June 3rd, 2018, 05:16 AM
It seems you are solving the mystery of the crinkly hairs...?

Fine hair truly asks to be handled differently, doesn't it?

Would you update us in a few months perhaps?

_fred_
June 3rd, 2018, 12:46 PM
Thank you for the kind words. It is really encouraging to hear that you reduced the number drastically by not brushing wet anymore and using the wooden comb! Glad you found the culprit really quickly.

Best of luck to you, too, on your hair journey :heartbeat

Thank you! :blossom:

Five of Five
June 3rd, 2018, 02:34 PM
It seems you are solving the mystery of the crinkly hairs...?

Fine hair truly asks to be handled differently, doesn't it?

Would you update us in a few months perhaps?

You're right! The "rules" for growing out hair are so simple that you forget how important they really are, especially for fine hair. Mine has never been able to withstand much damage, and I took the growth and health I got from following those LHC rules for granted!

If this had been a few years ago when I had been actively growing my hair out, I'd be pretty devastated right now, so I hope this can be a warning to others to always be gentle, especially when their hair is wet :p

Five of Five
June 7th, 2018, 04:57 PM
I've been trying to replicate damage on my healthy shed hairs, and managed to replicate the crinkly strands.

I found that it is definitely the result of being stretched. I needed to stretch the hairs near breaking point a few times before I was able to get the crinkle damage to show up.

Shepherdess
June 10th, 2018, 09:15 PM
Thank you very much for creating this post!! :flower: I have the same exact issue. Half of my hair is this way and some of them have grown worse; since when I look very closely I see that some of them are split but the splits are still connected to the strand, so you wouldn't notice them unless you look very closely or slightly bend the strand, like a zipper opening up the strand, it's weird. It is really disheartening. I have had this trouble since I can remember, and have tried being careful with my hair since joining LHC some years ago. I very rarely comb or brush my hair when it is wet, and I have not used heat on it (normally I let it air dry, so I definitely don't think it is the air dryer). I also don't use silicones and if I do use sulfates I only use them on my scalp unless my hair needs clarifying. So I guess I must somehow be stretching my hair too? It is long and the ends are old, so I am guessing that for that reason they are probably more brittle, although I notice that some of my new growth is this way too, which kind of worries me, though possibly related to my glasses catching on the strands at times. I wonder if sometimes hair can be naturally more porous, so it damages easier sometimes? Though I also sometimes wonder if the way I do braided nautilus buns might be causing it, because my hair is very heavy and sometimes it pulls a lot when I put it in buns, especially if it is damp, and if I go for a jog with my hair like this it probably stretches it. I need to think about this more; really been wanting to solve this problem too!!