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nycelle
March 11th, 2018, 10:57 AM
So I tried the WCC method last night.

I washed with a sulfate free shampoo, conditioned and then used a hydrating mask. Normally I would just wash ,then either condition or deep condtion/mask. This time
I did both.
Then I scrunched my hair, put up in a microfiber towel for a while, let down and air dried. I didn't use any product.

The results are horrible. The pic is bad, but not as bad, but not as bad as what I'm seeing.

My hair feels soft, but very heavy and I'm thinking that by tomorrow, it's going to feel oily.
Also, it's still somewhat frizzy!!
If you see a color difference in the pic, that's from yeas of sun exposure, not coloring. The very ends have a couple of pieces with some old highlights that haven't been trimmed off yet, but that's it. The rest is virgin hair.

So my question is, what product can I use to get rid of the frizz without weighing down my hair?? Natural oils (argan and such) only work for a short time and I can't use them excessively.
I think my HG oil (Ouai hair oil) may be making my hair drier, but I'm not 100% sure. Still, I'd like to switch to a lighter cream (no gel) styling formula that's not drying, and control frizz well.

Any recommendations? I'm at a loss.


http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30725&d=1520780479

lapushka
March 11th, 2018, 11:11 AM
The results are horrible. The pic is bad, but not as bad, but not as bad as what I'm seeing.

My hair feels soft, but very heavy and I'm thinking that by tomorrow, it's going to feel oily.
Also, it's still somewhat frizzy!!
If you see a color difference in the pic, that's from yeas of sun exposure, not coloring. The very ends have a couple of pieces with some old highlights that haven't been trimmed off yet, but that's it. The rest is virgin hair.

So my question is, what product can I use to get rid of the frizz without weighing down my hair?? Natural oils (argan and such) only work for a short time and I can't use them excessively.
I think my HG oil (Ouai hair oil) may be making my hair drier, but I'm not 100% sure. Still, I'd like to switch to a lighter cream (no gel) styling formula that's not drying, and control frizz well.

Any recommendations? I'm at a loss.


http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30725&d=1520780479

I respectfully disagree. I think your results are amazingly beautiful - no joke! :D

Maybe try the CWC method, that might be less "heavy" on the hair.

I use the Shea Moisture curl enhancing smoothie to style + gel + a serum (LOC/LCO method). But I only use a coinsize for almost classic length hair. Both of the cream as of the gel, as of the serum. I scrunch it all in. Your hair is shorter, so I would use a pea size (just scoop a bit with your finger).

I also don't see any frizz, TBH. Just defined waves.

Agnes Eliza
March 11th, 2018, 11:36 AM
Well, I think your hair looks fantastic, personally! :)

However, one way to battle frizz is to rinse in the coolest water you can tolerate, followed by a rinse of cool water dilution of apple cider vinegar or citric acid. The cooler water and the acid dilution helps to flatten the cuticle, reducing frizz. And it won't make your hair oily.

lapushka
March 11th, 2018, 11:55 AM
Agnes Eliza, it's worth a try to do a cold rinse (they never worked on me).

I have never heard of vinegar or lemon rinses laying the cuticle flat, though. I thought it was for hard water deposits, mainly.

MusicalSpoons
March 11th, 2018, 12:01 PM
Firstly, I think your hair genuinely looks lovely! But we don't have anything else to compare it to so it might not be great compared to how it normally is; either way please don't be discouraged because it truly doesn't look bad to other eyes!

I agree with lapushka, maybe WCC is too heavy for your hair. It's definitely worth trying CWC instead. You could try ROO with the natural oils that don't work for long enough (but only change one thing in your routine at a time and give it several goes to see the true result).

I don't know what conditioner and mask you used, but if they normally work individually for you then whatever the ingredients are shouldn't be a problem. You mentioned your hair oil possibly drying your hair out so I looked up the ingredients (maybe you already know what they are so apologies if I'm telling you something you already know. There's a huge looking list of natural oil extracts which sound amazing, but the two first ingredients are Cyclopentasiloxane and Dimethicone, both silicones. That's not to say they are bad, but with sulphate-free shampoos you need to be aware of what else you're using on your hair and make informed decisions. However if you have cocamidopropyl-betaine or coco betaine in the shampoo that should remove those two cones (you just might have to squeeze the shampoo down the length to be sure - not a scientific observation but from my own experience with the occasional heavy product!)

If you are specifically wanting to go/stay sulphate-free then this is a good resource: surfactants that get wash out silicones http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/detergents-which-remove-silicones.html

Also seconding the cold rinse and suggestion as it works well for me too.

Agnes Eliza
March 11th, 2018, 12:04 PM
Cold water does wonders for my frizzy hair! Though it is not easy to tolerate in the winter!

Here is an article about how ACV helps the cuticle lay flat but it does so partly because it reduces buildup:

https://www.bustle.com/articles/91092-using-apple-cider-vinegar-as-shampoo-might-be-the-best-thing-youve-ever-done-for-your

There are other articles on the internet that state similar things :)

lapushka
March 11th, 2018, 02:53 PM
Cold water does wonders for my frizzy hair! Though it is not easy to tolerate in the winter!

Here is an article about how ACV helps the cuticle lay flat but it does so partly because it reduces buildup:

https://www.bustle.com/articles/91092-using-apple-cider-vinegar-as-shampoo-might-be-the-best-thing-youve-ever-done-for-your

There are other articles on the internet that state similar things :)

Thank you for the information, Agnes Eliza! It does say it helps clear build-up (hard water deposits), helping the cuticle lay flat, but that is if it is a final rinse, I think. I think if you use it early on in the wash routine and then if you go through your regular routine (warm water, other products), that cuticle opens right back up, so you would still have to do a final cold rinse. At least, that is what I think.

Reservechic
March 11th, 2018, 04:34 PM
nychelle since your regular hair washing regimen was working out well for you, I presume, why did you decide to switch?
Whenever I try something new with my hair washing regimen and it doesn't work, I just go back to my regular routine that was. There wasn't any major damage done to your hair, by trying the WCC for such a super short time, so all you really need to do is just re-wash and condition your hair and start over. As, I have also had to do this too, whenever I have put in a styling product in my hair that just didn't agree with it at all. I just re-washed my hair is all.

Also, in regards to going without styling product in ones hair, that is something that honestly most people can't get away with at all, so that I am sure effected the outcome of your hair as well. When it comes to your hair being frizzy, I don't see anything major going on with frizz with your hair in the picture. It just looks like you need to go back to your former hair washing regimen and apply styling product to your hair, and oil if needed. Unfortunately, I can't 100% pinpoint! exactly which styling product or products will work best for your hair, because that can only truly be found through trial and error. If there is a local Sally's near you, you can always pop in there and speak to one of the sales associates, tell the individual about your hair and see what product recommendations they come up with. Sally's does allow for returns of used hair care products and I definitely know that Walmart does as well. If you don't want to go to Sally's you can quickly drop into Walmart and as long as you check the back of the product ingredient listing and it doesn't gave any ingredients in it that are known allergens to you or that you already know your hair doesn't like, and it's either your budget, then be open towards giving it a try.


On my hair wash days, I keep things very simple. I will pre-poo (I try to do so preferably every week now), cleanse, deep condition w/heat), apply my moisturizing leave in spray (which also doubles as a refresher spray) and my styling creme. Now, when it is very hot and sticky out, I can actually get away with using no leave in in my hair. In between wash days, I just re-apply a bit of my leave in/refresher spray and /or styling Creme and that is it. My hair has gotten to a point, where I can go out into a heavy thunderstorm and my hair won't frizz or I can even be in the bathroom and the glass will fog up like crazy due to humidity in the bathroom, but yet, my hair will still be looking frizz free and not crazy in any type of way at all. Which isn't something that I could not have said years ago, when I was going around trying lots of new stuff in. Y hair back to back, changing up my hair care routine,mat the drop of a whim, and just doing way to much to my hair that wasn't truly needed in the first place. it was a major learning experience, but it taught me, in essence how to take best care of my hair as possible, which is why, I have no regrets in regards to the bumps in the road that I went through in order to get me where I am at today with my hair. Because it helped me to finally start to be more at peace with my hair overall.

Wendyp
March 11th, 2018, 04:37 PM
Try the CWC method like lapuska recommended and an ACV rinse. These 2 saved my hair esp the later. Maybe you need cones? I found I did, so I use either hello hydration or nutrogena triple moisture. Your hair is beautiful though.

nycelle
March 11th, 2018, 05:42 PM
Thanks everyone - I appreciate the nice words and advice.

I tried to WCC because I felt my hair needed extra moisture. The top layer is dry and I have some breakage going on. Unfortunately, it's too heavy for my hair.
I will definitely try the other method of CWC next time and see how that goes. I also won't be using a mask after conditioning, just a regular conditioner. I think adding the mask was just going over the top for my hair.

I do rinse with cool water, very cool. My tolerance is high. But I've never done an ACV rinse, so will definitely give that a try. It can't hurt.

The picture is crappy. It lost a lot definition when I re-sized. Still you can see either new growth, or breakage around my crown, and down through the mid-length. I need to find a way to tame it, it just looks terrible.
So far not much is working for longer than 1-2 hours at at time. I was hoping to find something that wouldn't need to be re-applied all day long.

@MusicalSpoons; I us MorroconOil Hydrating shampoo and conditioner. I checked and the shampoo does contain cocamidopropyl betaine.
I think I need to stick to cone based conditioners. The two cone free ones I've tried in the past left, my hair a ratty mess.
That link is awesome, thank you.

My routine needs something more @Reservechic . Some kind of product that I haven't found yet. I shampoo/condition, air dry. Then apply oil from mid-length to ends. This last week I stuck to only natural oils, not my HG oil ,and have lots more frizz. So I'll definitely go back to using Ouai. Would still be nice to find a good leave in that gives me definition, and controls fly aways/frizz.

@WendyP - I use cones, just not sulfates.
If you like Herbal Essence Hello Hydration.. you would probably love Herbal Essences, "Repair Argan oil of Morroco." I think it's the best product Herbal Essences have every put out. I still have the conditioner and will be using it next time for my CWC.

Also, has anyone tried Devacurl for wavy hair? I wouldn't invest in the full size version, but Ulta has the 3 item set in a trial size for 9 USD.

Wendyp
March 11th, 2018, 06:50 PM
Thanks everyone - I appreciate the nice words and advice.

I tried to WCC because I felt my hair needed extra moisture. The top layer is dry and I have some breakage going on. Unfortunately, it's too heavy for my hair.
I will definitely try the other method of CWC next time and see how that goes. I also won't be using a mask after conditioning, just a regular conditioner. I think adding the mask was just going over the top for my hair.

I do rinse with cool water, very cool. My tolerance is high. But I've never done an ACV rinse, so will definitely give that a try. It can't hurt.

The picture is crappy. It lost a lot definition when I re-sized. Still you can see either new growth, or breakage around my crown, and down through the mid-length. I need to find a way to tame it, it just looks terrible.
So far not much is working for longer than 1-2 hours at at time. I was hoping to find something that wouldn't need to be re-applied all day long.

@MusicalSpoons; I us MorroconOil Hydrating shampoo and conditioner. I checked and the shampoo does contain cocamidopropyl betaine.
I think I need to stick to cone based conditioners. The two cone free ones I've tried in the past left, my hair a ratty mess.
That link is awesome, thank you.

My routine needs something more @Reservechic . Some kind of product that I haven't found yet. I shampoo/condition, air dry. Then apply oil from mid-length to ends. This last week I stuck to only natural oils, not my HG oil ,and have lots more frizz. So I'll definitely go back to using Ouai. Would still be nice to find a good leave in that gives me definition, and controls fly aways/frizz.

@WendyP - I use cones, just not sulfates.
If you like Herbal Essence Hello Hydration.. you would probably love Herbal Essences, "Repair Argan oil of Morroco." I think it's the best product Herbal Essences have every put out. I still have the conditioner and will be using it next time for my CWC.

Also, has anyone tried Devacurl for wavy hair? I wouldn't invest in the full size version, but Ulta has the 3 item set in a trial size for 9 USD.

Thx I’ll look into it. I would say the acv was the biggest thing so far as my pics show. I think I’m locked into my routine for now thankfully after years of trying to figure it out lol

leayellena
March 12th, 2018, 02:27 AM
So I tried the WCC method last night.

I washed with a sulfate free shampoo, conditioned and then used a hydrating mask. Normally I would just wash ,then either condition or deep condtion/mask. This time
I did both.
Then I scrunched my hair, put up in a microfiber towel for a while, let down and air dried. I didn't use any product.

The results are horrible. The pic is bad, but not as bad, but not as bad as what I'm seeing.

My hair feels soft, but very heavy and I'm thinking that by tomorrow, it's going to feel oily.
Also, it's still somewhat frizzy!!
If you see a color difference in the pic, that's from yeas of sun exposure, not coloring. The very ends have a couple of pieces with some old highlights that haven't been trimmed off yet, but that's it. The rest is virgin hair.

So my question is, what product can I use to get rid of the frizz without weighing down my hair?? Natural oils (argan and such) only work for a short time and I can't use them excessively.
I think my HG oil (Ouai hair oil) may be making my hair drier, but I'm not 100% sure. Still, I'd like to switch to a lighter cream (no gel) styling formula that's not drying, and control frizz well.

Any recommendations? I'm at a loss.


http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30725&d=1520780479

I don't know why people scrunch hair like it's meant to be curly made by a hairdresser! Stop the god damned scrunching, it won't bring anything good without a proper mentained haircut! Maybe your hair is now too heavy to hold a curl... Maybe it tends to 1c/2a rather than anything wavy. My hair bends in the middle of the grown layers but curls like it's made on a curling iron where there's still thinned out and layered by my (forever the last) hairdresser.
Or simply your hair needs some keratin conditioner and it's actually straighter than the shortned, lighteed version. I don't know if your hair will be that wavy when it reaches let's say hip length...

nycelle
March 12th, 2018, 07:01 AM
I don't know why people scrunch hair like it's meant to be curly made by a hairdresser! Stop the god damned scrunching, it won't bring anything good without a proper mentained haircut! Maybe your hair is now too heavy to hold a curl... Maybe it tends to 1c/2a rather than anything wavy. My hair bends in the middle of the grown layers but curls like it's made on a curling iron where there's still thinned out and layered by my (forever the last) hairdresser.
Or simply your hair needs some keratin conditioner and it's actually straighter than the shortned, lighteed version. I don't know if your hair will be that wavy when it reaches let's say hip length...

Hi Leayellena -

Are you saying scrunching doesn't work well on 2a hair? Or just my hair? I had a haircut about 2.5 months ago. Angled in the front, soft U in the back.
I don't have shorter layers on the lighter parts. The picture lost lots of definition when I adjusted the size. It's also not as light as it shows, and those pieces aren't layered. It just the way the light was hitting them.

Have had waist length hair before, even longer actually- and the texture is pretty much the same. Wavy after the initial wash, then straightens out. I'm probably a solid 2a, that can go to 2b or 1c depending on the routine.

Do you do anything to your 1c/2a hair as it dries?

lapushka
March 12th, 2018, 07:10 AM
I don't know why people scrunch hair like it's meant to be curly made by a hairdresser! Stop the god damned scrunching, it won't bring anything good without a proper mentained haircut! Maybe your hair is now too heavy to hold a curl... Maybe it tends to 1c/2a rather than anything wavy. My hair bends in the middle of the grown layers but curls like it's made on a curling iron where there's still thinned out and layered by my (forever the last) hairdresser.
Or simply your hair needs some keratin conditioner and it's actually straighter than the shortned, lighteed version. I don't know if your hair will be that wavy when it reaches let's say hip length...

I scrunch. What all of a sudden is wrong with it? :shrug: I never read anywhere you needed a "proper haircut" with this method. Not at all. Where did you get this from? Anyone with 1c hair or up can scrunch and expect some results. I don't know about 1b, that might be a bit too straight for it, so I can see that, but all other textures (upwards from 1b), why not?

lucid
March 12th, 2018, 10:03 AM
It's possible you just don't have the right products for this method. Non-sulfate shampoos build up quite fast in my hair, and make my hair feel stringy, heavy and (extra :p ) flat. So I cannot use them. Some conditioners are too heavy as well. I often use a lighter conditioner as the first conditioner, and a heavier one as the second conditioner.

Wanted to add: I usually do cwc, and after clarifying I do wcc.

nycelle
March 12th, 2018, 10:29 AM
It's possible you just don't have the right products for this method. Non-sulfate shampoos build up quite fast in my hair, and make my hair feel stringy, heavy and (extra :p ) flat. So I cannot use them. Some conditioners are too heavy as well. I often use a lighter conditioner as the first conditioner, and a heavier one as the second conditioner.

Wanted to add: I usually do cwc, and after clarifying I do wcc.

So interesting how we're all different. I have nothing against sulfates, but found that my scalp gets itchy from them. Not terribly, but it does better with sulfate free. My hair also get oilier quicker with sulfate shampoos. But I have a feeling it's because I'm constantly scratching my head and brushing my scalp so, the oils could be distributing faster.

Any reason why you do a WCC after clarifying? I loved my hair when I clarified. I used a clarifying shampoo and conditioner and my hair felt soft and light, but and not too frizzy. Too bad I can't use it for each wash.

Day after clarifying, and getting caught in the rain. I still think it looked pretty good..lol
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30271&d=1518814868

Jo Ann
March 12th, 2018, 12:28 PM
Nycelle, your hair DOES look good!

When I first started posting here, I had already found shampoos/conditioners that my hair liked, then introduced new products one at a time, over a period of time, like every other week or so. That way, if my hair didn't like something, I had a "base line," if you will, to work on. Gradually, I used up the products my hair DIDN'T like (it's amazing how a good conditioner or two will ease the unhappiness my hair felt after I used a shampoo it didn't like, or a HG conditioner [mine is Hello Hydration] can make a "bad" conditioner look good), so I didn't feel like I had wasted money :)

I WCC once a week, but as people have found out here, YMMV :flower:

Good luck!

Reservechic
March 12th, 2018, 02:55 PM
So interesting how we're all different. I have nothing against sulfates, but found that my scalp gets itchy from them. Not terribly, but it does better with sulfate free. My hair also get oilier quicker with sulfate shampoos. But I have a feeling it's because I'm constantly scratching my head and brushing my scalp so, the oils could be distributing faster.

Any reason why you do a WCC after clarifying? I loved my hair when I clarified. I used a clarifying shampoo and conditioner and my hair felt soft and light, but and not too frizzy. Too bad I can't use it for each wash.

Day after clarifying, and getting caught in the rain. I still think it looked pretty good..lol
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30271&d=1518814868

Your hair is holding up great! As, clarifying your hair and starting over definitely helped a lot!

nycelle
March 13th, 2018, 02:01 PM
Nycelle, your hair DOES look good!

When I first started posting here, I had already found shampoos/conditioners that my hair liked, then introduced new products one at a time, over a period of time, like every other week or so. That way, if my hair didn't like something, I had a "base line," if you will, to work on. Gradually, I used up the products my hair DIDN'T like (it's amazing how a good conditioner or two will ease the unhappiness my hair felt after I used a shampoo it didn't like, or a HG conditioner [mine is Hello Hydration] can make a "bad" conditioner look good), so I didn't feel like I had wasted money :)

I WCC once a week, but as people have found out here, YMMV :flower:

Good luck!

I'm gonna give the WCC another go. I like how my hair looks, and most of all feels, yesterday and today. I think my mistake was scrunching it and hoping it would hold a nice wave using heavy conditioners. I just don't have the texture for that. So next time I won't scrunch and see what happens. Well, next time is tomorrow!


Your hair is holding up great! As, clarifying your hair and starting over definitely helped a lot!

Thank you, but that was just a comparative pic showing how my hair looks after clarifying. I actually loved it like that. It was sooo shiny.

This is my hair today. Back to normal with very loose waves. BUT, it feels good - still very moisturized and I've had less breakage.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30747&d=1520967763

lapushka
March 13th, 2018, 03:21 PM
That's an unexpected turn of events. Your hair looks great today!

I'm glad you're giving it another go. :)

nycelle
March 13th, 2018, 03:26 PM
That's an unexpected turn of events. Your hair looks great today!

I'm glad you're giving it another go. :)

Thanks!
I know! I was just so upset at how it looked that I couldn't get past it. This time around I'll try a different method - just leaving it alone..lol..

leayellena
March 14th, 2018, 09:43 AM
Hmm I used to scrunch my hair back when I was just venting as guest on LHC. Information found of course on naturally curly. My hair was a v curly and bent on the length with cowlicks.
When my hair grew longer I was already member of LHC and I discovered that my hair is a messy straightish with thinned out pieces at a hairdressing salon. If I scrunch my hair at this stage (hip length) it looks kinked and frizzy. Even drying in braids looks better. And btw without silicones my hair is dead. It tangles, clump, kinks, break, frizzies, looks greasier than when using silicone products. Hmm why? All because it's wavy? I start to see less and less waves in my hair, it just remains wavy where it was thinned out and layered.

leayellena
March 14th, 2018, 09:46 AM
Nycelle
I think cones are not THAT bad. I gave up cones because cone free "is natural". My hair was anything but manageable.
My layers makes my hair look like yours.

nycelle
March 14th, 2018, 10:37 AM
Nycelle
I think cones are not THAT bad. I gave up cones because cone free "is natural". My hair was anything but manageable.
My layers makes my hair look like yours.

I can't give up cones.
When I joined this forum and learned about -cones, I decided to check the ingredients of the two conditioners that left my hair a tangled mess in the past. Both were silicone free. I don't think I'd try that again.

nycelle
March 15th, 2018, 11:21 AM
Did another WCC yesterday. My hair came out much better without scrunching. This is it today.
(didn't get a chance to take a pic yesterday.)

Don't think I'm a real 2b though. Solid 2a yes.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30786&d=1521130535

lapushka
March 15th, 2018, 11:38 AM
Looks great! :D