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View Full Version : Do tangly/clumped ends always mean damage or does it happen to healthy hair too?



divinedobbie
January 21st, 2018, 04:17 PM
I've been thinking of doing another (small, hopefully) chop but before I make the decision I wanted to post this question!

I recently cut 3 1/2 inches off and while I do have dye still in my hair, I can't really find any split ends or white dots and my hair doesn't feel particularly damaged, yet my ends tangle very easily. They will velcro together and when I spread my hair out it forms distinct layers of where it stops tangling and my hemline is full, and everything under neath is clumped. The first picture was taken post sleeping, and second after being brushed. Pictures taken together to rule out any other variables but third picture shows freshly washed hair before it has a chance to tangle. Even in picture 2 after brushing, you can see ends flipping out where they were previously stuck together. This happens even after my hair is up.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29959&d=1516572834
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29960&d=1516572851
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29792&d=1515377133

Before I cut the first time I was experiencing the same thing, so I cut my hair up to that line where it stopped tangling and I expected I had got rid of the problem. But now it's doing it again. Before I cut again, I want feedback if that's just a normal thing to always expect or if it's an indication of damage. I'm looking to cut to a clean slate to grow from!

So tell me, does your healthy hair do this too?

divinedobbie
January 21st, 2018, 04:20 PM
Also, when I run my fingers through my hair it goes super smoothly until suddenly at those last three inches it's like it hits a wall of where it started to tangle. It's like two completely different areas.

MsPharaohMoan
January 21st, 2018, 05:13 PM
Have you tried clarifying?

2gaits
January 21st, 2018, 05:43 PM
I would suspect damage. I sort of have the same thing with my hair even though it is shorter than yours. I don't have splits either but I think the hair is just drier from damage. Maybe try oiling the ends?

divinedobbie
January 21st, 2018, 05:47 PM
Have you tried clarifying?

Yes, I clarify and chelate routinely

embee
January 21st, 2018, 06:12 PM
I think it's kind of normal. Especially if you have silky hair that slides around. Mine almost seems to try to braid itself if I leave it down for long. There's probably something to it having some damage just because it's older and has had more manipulation and all. I would be sad to cut. Then again, maybe my hair isn't really healthy! :D

Andthetalltrees
January 21st, 2018, 06:16 PM
My hair is like this no matter what length or how damaged it is(I thought trimming more often would help, but it never did anything for that). For me I think the ends clumping up/being flippy are from my semi-waves, and the tangling just at the ends I don't know why but it's just something it does. If I moisturize and use heavy conditioners it seems to mitigate the issue a little bit but it's just something I've accepted happens

abribun
January 21st, 2018, 06:36 PM
Do you use coconut oil in your hair? I found that when I was using coconut oil a lot in my hair (I left it in overnight when I put it in) my ends stuck together like yours are. I think this might be from too much protein?

divinedobbie
January 21st, 2018, 07:03 PM
Do you use coconut oil in your hair? I found that when I was using coconut oil a lot in my hair (I left it in overnight when I put it in) my ends stuck together like yours are. I think this might be from too much protein?

Not really, maybe once a month at best I'll do an overnight oiling. I haven't done any protein treatments and don't use "specially branded"protein shampoos even though some of my shampoos might have protein in them. I actually bought some Nexuss protein treatment to see if that would help :hmm:

akurah
January 21st, 2018, 09:08 PM
Coconut oil has an inconsequential amount of protein if I am remembering right? And at any rate, tangling is not a symptom of too much protein in absence of other symptoms imo.

Somewhat tangly ends come with the territory at some point, they are the oldest length of our hair. My ends are pretty old, at least 7, maybe 10. They don't tangle to the point of being irrevocable, but they do tangle. If i wear my hair completely up, they do not usually, but I also take my hair down periodically so it gets tangled if I do so. My hair is not processed, and it's only had deposit only dyes on it (no henna, other dyes, etc).

Other people, even with hair contained, have hair that if you look at the hair funny it'll tangle to spite you.

I honestly don't recommend cutting unless you are unable to get the tangles out at all, because in a few months to a year your ends will be tangling again in spite of the cut.

AutobotsAttack
January 21st, 2018, 10:10 PM
Coconut oil has an inconsequential amount of protein if I am remembering right? And at any rate, tangling is not a symptom of too much protein in absence of other symptoms imo.

Somewhat tangly ends come with the territory at some point, they are the oldest length of our hair. My ends are pretty old, at least 7, maybe 10. They don't tangle to the point of being irrevocable, but they do tangle. If i wear my hair completely up, they do not usually, but I also take my hair down periodically so it gets tangled if I do so. My hair is not processed, and it's only had deposit only dyes on it (no henna, other dyes, etc).

Other people, even with hair contained, have hair that if you look at the hair funny it'll tangle to spite you.

I honestly don't recommend cutting unless you are unable to get the tangles out at all, because in a few months to a year your ends will be tangling again in spite of the cut.

Definitely agree with you Akurah.

Espeacially with the different hair types. My hair tangles up while I’m actually detangling it.

Sometimes I’ve noticed my ends with clump together if they’re very moisture drenched and elastic as well.

Beeboo123
January 21st, 2018, 11:16 PM
I’m wavy, so my hair just clumps. Also, the finer your hair is, the more it will tangle. Doesn’t have to be due to damage.

Natashap
January 22nd, 2018, 01:07 AM
I am unsure about this issue.Myself dealing with it a lot lately as missed my 90 day rule for getting a trim and after washing hair its a mess and knottty.

But today used 2 in 1 shampoo by H and S classic clean and no knots at all.Maybe my hair needs conditioner and its winter or static in indoor heating ( using humidifier )makes a huge diference too.

Loving my hair today for behaving good for me.:magic:

embee
January 22nd, 2018, 06:32 AM
Winter static makes things worse for me. My hair just flies around while I'm trying to comb it. My only solution is to run my dampened hands over the length before combing/brushing. Then things are ok, more or less. I'm not cutting. I've spent years getting to this point and cutting is not the direction I want to go! ;)

lapushka
January 22nd, 2018, 07:08 AM
So tell me, does your healthy hair do this too?

Maybe it's the very last bit of damage?

How do you wash? Method? What products do you use (sulfate-free, CO)? Give us some more info first. :flower:

My hair never did this.

I do however have started to moisturize the ends (rinse out oil) with baby oil, and that helps the last 4/5 inches of my hair tremendously. After that I do LOC/LCO and that seals it all in quite well.

Maybe do those types of things, give it a go before trimming; it's worth it if it means not having to lose length!

akurah
January 22nd, 2018, 09:20 AM
Also consider lint. For some bizarre reason I cannot keep lint from my hair, and it’s worse in California (where I live) than it is in Tennessee (where I visit family). Lint will cause tangles regardless of your hair condition.

lapushka
January 22nd, 2018, 09:25 AM
Also consider lint. For some bizarre reason I cannot keep lint from my hair, and it’s worse in California (where I live) than it is in Tennessee (where I visit family). Lint will cause tangles regardless of your hair condition.

When I pre-wash detangle with a TT, I get so much fluff out the hair that it clogs up my TT brush. I have to "pluck" it out every time. It's not even funny. But I never get tangly last bits on my hair due to it, though.

I have been oil rinsing my hair for 10 weeks straight now, without hiccups, but I clarify wash every wash (with a sulfate shampoo), so maybe that's also what keeps it all clear.

When is the last time you clarify-washed (we always ask, right)?

Hairkay
January 22nd, 2018, 10:33 AM
Definitely agree with you Akurah.

Espeacially with the different hair types. My hair tangles up while I’m actually detangling it.

Sometimes I’ve noticed my ends with clump together if they’re very moisture drenched and elastic as well.
I can relate to this. Hair tangles even in the middle of plaiting so I need to carefully smooth the hair down as I go. Hair tangles if it's left loose, especially when it's windy. Hair naturally clumps into spirals or corkscrews, disturb these and you will get tangles.

Also consider lint. For some bizarre reason I cannot keep lint from my hair, and it’s worse in California (where I live) than it is in Tennessee (where I visit family). Lint will cause tangles regardless of your hair condition.
I also have to deal with lint. I pick it out as I go. Sometimes I'll use a comb just to remove lint. Lint also wraps around single strand knots then causes tangles.

lithostoic
January 22nd, 2018, 12:08 PM
I think it's just related to the length of the hair. Mine does this at BSL and beyond regardless of damage.

lapushka
January 22nd, 2018, 02:09 PM
Do you use silicones in your conditioner, or not? Question that popped into my head, real quick.

divinedobbie
January 22nd, 2018, 03:53 PM
I WC daily. I tend not to stick to one shampoo, for a long time I was using Chi moisture therapy (sulfate free but doesn't have the gentlest of sulfate-alternatives) and clarifying with Joico every few weeks. I'm using up the remainder of that and now mostly use Natures Gate Jasmine and Kombucha (sulfate free, gentle) and clarify with Kenra. Occasionally I throw in a different shampoo. I use either Pantene moisture renewal or Biolage moisture (can't remember exact name) but both are quite coney. I don't use any leave in regularly. I use a Shwarzkopf biotin spray occasionally when bunning wet overnight to give me volume in my buns. I also currently own a Chi leave in but it doesn't help the tangliness. I rarely oil. I use Loreal total repair 5 and Joico deep conditioner. I very occasionally do a gelatin protein mask. I have tried catnip rinses twice. I have done the moisture vs protein "pull" test and my hair seems fine, it neither breaks without stretching nor does it stretch out. It doesn't feel gummy or straw like except for maybe the last 0.5 inch is a little rough.

How do I know if my hair has lint in it? I can't see anything on it and there isn't really anything in my comb.

I'll go back and make sure I answered ant other questions etc when I have another second but thanks for the help so far!

lapushka
January 22nd, 2018, 04:36 PM
I would try and sulfate wash more, honestly I would. Maybe that's it.


How do I know if my hair has lint in it? I can't see anything on it and there isn't really anything in my comb.

I'll go back and make sure I answered ant other questions etc when I have another second but thanks for the help so far!

If there is nothing in your comb/brush, then it's fine! :flower:

erebus
January 22nd, 2018, 04:42 PM
Also, when I run my fingers through my hair it goes super smoothly until suddenly at those last three inches it's like it hits a wall of where it started to tangle. It's like two completely different areas.

I can relate to this, my hair does the same and as far as I can tell there are no split ends! Something that made it better for me was not shampooing the ends directly, only the scalp and then having the rest be cleaned as I rinse out the shampoo. While it's better, the problem has not gone away. I suspect that doing some oil treatments might help but I haven't tried that yet.

For the record, I have fine straight hair.

lucid
January 22nd, 2018, 05:35 PM
My hair acts that way when it's damaged. It's starting to get like this now, just a tiny bit, so I'm trimming soon. It doesn't have to be lots of split ends or anything like that, it's enough that the ends are less smooth than the rest - just enough to make the velcro tangly effect.

spidermom
January 22nd, 2018, 08:58 PM
The CWC routine can make ends Velcro together over time.

divinedobbie
January 22nd, 2018, 10:10 PM
I try to never shampoo the ends aside from the little bit that runs down when I rinse although I try and hold the bulk of the hair away. Unless it's the opposite problem - that the ends aren't getting enough wash and the cones are building up really fast.

I'll have to do a few weeks of experimenting with different shampoos and see if anything makes a difference. I always assumed that since clarifying or washing with a regular sulphate shampoo never made a difference that regular sulphate washing wouldn't either but I'll happily be wrong.

I just WC not CWC, did you mean WC?

divinedobbie
January 22nd, 2018, 10:16 PM
Also to mention I have tried ROO a long time ago, I'm 99% sure I was using mineral oil. I don't remember a whole lot from it but I didn't stick with it. I also tried grapeseed oil for a bit and that didn't work out.

Second edit: I did a catnip soak yesterday and today my hair was pretty well behaved. I had it in a half ponytail or whatever that ponytail that you don't pull through the whole way is called and when I took it out there were hardly any tangles. Don't know if it's related or not... will check in tomorrow

Okay one more edit to add: When I was visiting my mom over Christmas my hair felt a lot softer and less tangled as well. And that was before I even cut. It might have been the water but I've researched and it doesn't look like the area I live in has hard water itself, plus I chelate routinely, but I might think about investing in a shower filter. OR it could be because the humidity there is at like 80% and here we're lucky if it makes it past 25%. Unfortunately the environment is harder to manipulate. OR it could be because I was fairly sedentary during my visit whereas my daily life and work involves a lot of movement that makes my hair rub.

akurah
January 23rd, 2018, 12:19 AM
Also to mention I have tried ROO a long time ago, I'm 99% sure I was using mineral oil. I don't remember a whole lot from it but I didn't stick with it. I also tried grapeseed oil for a bit and that didn't work out.

Second edit: I did a catnip soak yesterday and today my hair was pretty well behaved. I had it in a half ponytail or whatever that ponytail that you don't pull through the whole way is called and when I took it out there were hardly any tangles. Don't know if it's related or not... will check in tomorrow

Okay one more edit to add: When I was visiting my mom over Christmas my hair felt a lot softer and less tangled as well. And that was before I even cut. It might have been the water but I've researched and it doesn't look like the area I live in has hard water itself, plus I chelate routinely, but I might think about investing in a shower filter. OR it could be because the humidity there is at like 80% and here we're lucky if it makes it past 25%. Unfortunately the environment is harder to manipulate. OR it could be because I was fairly sedentary during my visit whereas my daily life and work involves a lot of movement that makes my hair rub.

how on earth did you do that with no tangles??? my hair is a rats nest from that, and my hair is usually well behaved.

spirals
January 23rd, 2018, 12:46 AM
My hair is like this no matter what length or how damaged it is(I thought trimming more often would help, but it never did anything for that). For me I think the ends clumping up/being flippy are from my semi-waves, Me, too, and it's curls. I've trimmed all my damage out and I do have a few white dots but nothing too bad. No matter what, my ends are the most tangly because they're the oldest. I try to give the most moisturizing attention to the ends.

ETA: I do CWC so that probably has something to do with it. Every once in a while I use shampoo all the way down first, and then condition. It ends up a little dry but sorts itself out by the next wash.

poli
January 23rd, 2018, 01:27 AM
Me, too, and it's curls. I've trimmed all my damage out and I do have a few white dots but nothing too bad. No matter what, my ends are the most tangly because they're the oldest. I try to give the most moisturizing attention to the ends.

ETA: I do CWC so that probably has something to do with it. Every once in a while I use shampoo all the way down first, and then condition. It ends up a little dry but sorts itself out by the next wash.

I also think conditioning more might be what will help.
Wash + condition + condition or condition + wash + condition. Catnip might work as an additional conditioner for you.

Blue Mermaid
January 23rd, 2018, 01:28 AM
Currently going through this. I got 3 1/2 inches off and it helped a bit..but two weeks later the bottom 5 inches of my hair is dry, rough and knotting together. I too, only wash the scalp and condition the length. I almost never chelate. Wonder if I should try washing my ends or chelating. Usually washing my ends makes my hair one giant matt. I have coarse hair, with a wavy/loose curl pattern. Oiling my ends with Argan or Macadamia oil seems to help.

How do you wear your hair day to day? I always wear a ponytail...out of laziness. Sometimes braids. I wonder if my hair is roughed up from rubbing across my shirt.
If you find a good solution, please let me know!

akurah
January 23rd, 2018, 01:37 AM
Currently going through this. I got 3 1/2 inches off and it helped a bit..but two weeks later the bottom 5 inches of my hair is dry, rough and knotting together. I too, only wash the scalp and condition the length. I almost never chelate. Wonder if I should try washing my ends or chelating. Usually washing my ends makes my hair one giant matt. I have coarse hair, with a wavy/loose curl pattern. Oiling my ends with Argan or Macadamia oil seems to help.

How do you wear your hair day to day? I always wear a ponytail...out of laziness. Sometimes braids. I wonder if my hair is roughed up from rubbing across my shirt.
If you find a good solution, please let me know!

You’re right, rubbing on your shirt is ruining your ends. Buns are best if you can tolerate them.

Blue Mermaid
January 23rd, 2018, 01:54 AM
You’re right, rubbing on your shirt is ruining your ends. Buns are best if you can tolerate them.

thanks for the input.

I can tolerate buns, but getting my hair to stay in a bun is another matter entirely. My hair is layered a bit so buns tend to 'explode'. Add in the fact that most sticks don't work for me. I've only have one or two pairs ever work. They are thin and pointy. And I'm outgrowing them. Thicker hair sticks just "push" my bun apart and it wont stay up. I'm just shy of waist now. Braided buns don't work, my hair when braided is so stiff you can't bend it around in a loop. I spent so much money on hair sticks and ficcares a few years ago, and I STILL can't get any of it to work, except for the first pair of sticks I ever bought. Go figure. :rolleyes: Ficcares worked well when I could french twist my hair, but now I've got way too much hair for it. My hair spits out ficcares and laughs. Though to be fair, I haven't searched all that hard for a 'different' style to wear. Lazy wrap buns don't work (can't get the stick "under" everything to secure it...just...too much hair? Not enough stick? not sure..) so I'm resigned to cinnabuns that swallow my hair sticks whole just about.

I may end up just cutting back to BSL. Can't prevent damage cause I can't keep my hair up. It's a catch 22.

Sorry for the thread hijack. I should really post this as it's own topic.

elsiedeluxe
January 24th, 2018, 12:48 PM
My hair texture is very similar to yours, and I think if I were experiencing what you're experiencing, I would oil the ends. My hair hasn't been long enough to do this in a long time, but at one time I kept it in loose, low braid and oiled the tassle. Different oils have really different effects. The oil I use on my legs after the shower is too heavy for my very fine, straight hair. I personally hate olive oil on my hair, although I know it works for some. I use the Nourish Argan combination oil on my hair and it is light and silky. Cones seem to dry out my ends almost instantly, not over time, as some people have found. I CO wash with a no-cone conditioner every morning, and lightly oil the ends either before I go to bed or in the morning before I shower.

akurah
January 24th, 2018, 02:18 PM
thanks for the input.

I can tolerate buns, but getting my hair to stay in a bun is another matter entirely. My hair is layered a bit so buns tend to 'explode'. Add in the fact that most sticks don't work for me. I've only have one or two pairs ever work. They are thin and pointy. And I'm outgrowing them. Thicker hair sticks just "push" my bun apart and it wont stay up. I'm just shy of waist now. Braided buns don't work, my hair when braided is so stiff you can't bend it around in a loop. I spent so much money on hair sticks and ficcares a few years ago, and I STILL can't get any of it to work, except for the first pair of sticks I ever bought. Go figure. :rolleyes: Ficcares worked well when I could french twist my hair, but now I've got way too much hair for it. My hair spits out ficcares and laughs. Though to be fair, I haven't searched all that hard for a 'different' style to wear. Lazy wrap buns don't work (can't get the stick "under" everything to secure it...just...too much hair? Not enough stick? not sure..) so I'm resigned to cinnabuns that swallow my hair sticks whole just about.

I may end up just cutting back to BSL. Can't prevent damage cause I can't keep my hair up. It's a catch 22.

Sorry for the thread hijack. I should really post this as it's own topic.

If your hair is too thick for one bun, how about two?

Blue Mermaid
January 29th, 2018, 02:22 AM
If your hair is too thick for one bun, how about two?

Hmm, I hadn't thought of that. :confused:

I'll have to give it a whirl.

Edit: forgot to add, since my last post I found an Ead I had forgotten about that is 7+ inches. With it, I CAN manage a LWB, but it doesn't feel very comfortable to wear all day.

Rebeccalaurenxx
January 29th, 2018, 02:53 AM
I have this same "problem".... namely i thought it was always just my hair type.
not damage. as i dont do damaging things. and im sure you dont either.

i am mixed, i have what i like to call fine thick hair.
I have fine hair and i have a lot of it, which causes an issue with hair sticking together and whatnot.
and especially tangles. fine hair is so prone to it and when you have a lot of it, it just gets velcro-y.
for me when its really bad, its a sign i need more moisture and a better styling product.
i started doing LOC and i see a bit of a difference in how my hair looks.
it doesnt really last because its just a method of styling, my hair usually flattens the next day.
but it makes the clumps look better, and helps with tangles. i find the clumping to be a part of my texture.

divinedobbie
January 29th, 2018, 03:56 AM
I have this same "problem".... namely i thought it was always just my hair type.
not damage. as i dont do damaging things. and im sure you dont either.

i am mixed, i have what i like to call fine thick hair.
I have fine hair and i have a lot of it, which causes an issue with hair sticking together and whatnot.
and especially tangles. fine hair is so prone to it and when you have a lot of it, it just gets velcro-y.
for me when its really bad, its a sign i need more moisture and a better styling product.
i started doing LOC and i see a bit of a difference in how my hair looks.
it doesnt really last because its just a method of styling, my hair usually flattens the next day.
but it makes the clumps look better, and helps with tangles. i find the clumping to be a part of my texture.

I think you're on the right track with needing more moisture. It definitely tangles more the longer I am post wash (assuming moisture loss). I keep telling myself I'll do more SMTs but I never get around to it. Probably why doing LOC isn't compatible with me, I'm so low maintenance. But if that's what my hair wants, that's what my hair gets.. maybe. I just haven't had any success with any kind of leave in, gel, spray or cream. They always make my hair more tangly no matter what I use. I've tried oils alone and they don't seem to have any effect unless I use a whole lot but I can't wear that outside. Hmmmm

stachelbeere
January 29th, 2018, 07:01 AM
Have you tried adding aloe vera gel? I have exact same problem (though I need to start brushing my hair in a more gentle way and repurchase a good chelating shampoo I finished a while ago) but rubbing some aloe vera into the length really helps ‘silken out’ my hair

divinedobbie
January 29th, 2018, 09:33 PM
Have you tried adding aloe vera gel? I have exact same problem (though I need to start brushing my hair in a more gentle way and repurchase a good chelating shampoo I finished a while ago) but rubbing some aloe vera into the length really helps ‘silken out’ my hair

Hmm no I haven't. Do you just use pure aloe Vera or a mix?

stachelbeere
January 30th, 2018, 05:58 AM
Pure aloe vera, straight from the leaf. You cut the leaf open, scrape the jelly out and then mash it up. You can apply this straight on the hair when it’s wet or dry, you can mix it with conditioner for a SMT... when the hair is dry and you apply aloe let it dry and then comb it. To save time I harvested a decent amount of leaves, blended the jelly and froze it in ice cubes - it’s very convenient

leayellena
January 30th, 2018, 06:06 AM
Oh I forgot to add: dry, unmoisturized ends tend to frizz and tangle. Maybe your hair isn't damaged: check for every split end and cut right above it, but only dry because of weather or so. My hair is always frizzy at the ends when I take it out of my sleep bun.

luvlonghair75
January 30th, 2018, 07:51 AM
My hair ends used to do this until I started using a leave-in oil after washing. Smooth as silk nowadays! :)