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Rapunzel_to_be
January 4th, 2018, 09:19 AM
Hey ladies and gents :)

I just started washing my hair with Dr bronner's castille soap, following a diluted ACV rinse to condition. My hair responded well to it from the first time I tried it. It looks shinier, which I guess is the ACV rinse, and for some reason it almost feels "thicker" or fuller somehow.. like when I have it in a ponytail it looks "heavier", ihaha sorry for the bad explanation.. I wouldn't say its more voluminous, but anyway its a positive thing :p

I was wondering if anyone has tried this and used this method for years? If so any cons? or pros? Would be happy if you could share your experience with me <3

Nightshade
January 4th, 2018, 09:54 AM
I think it's incredibly bad long-term and have experienced a lot of customers who have asked about solutions to scalp fungus and damage, and after questioning, this (and also baking soda washes) are the go-to culprits. Both can cause you to develop serious damage and scalp fungus after prolonged use.

This is because both Bronner's and baking soda are very alkaline (Bronner's has a pH of ~8.9). Human hair and scalp oil, sebum, has a pH balance of between 4.5 and 5.5. This natural hair acidity (called the acid mantle) prevents fungi and bacteria in the hair and scalp, and keeps the cuticle closed and healthy.

Washing with alkaline solutions, even if followed by an ACV rinse, is damaging to the hair, and the disruption of the acid mantle is simply not worth it. A pH balanced shampoo is designed not to disrupt the acid mantle. An alkaline solution does so, and an ACV rinse does not restore the acid mantle, only neutralizes the surface environment.

Rapunzel_to_be
January 4th, 2018, 10:05 AM
@NIIGHTSHADE Thank you:) I've read this as well, but I've also read the opposite.. so Im confused and therefore I thought maybe someone who has or is using it could share their experiences:)
I would like to wash my hair without using synthetic chemicals. Do you have any recommendations?:)

Nightshade
January 4th, 2018, 10:38 AM
I think most the positives are when people first switch over- it seems to work great for the first few weeks /months. The scalp and damage issues are after prolonged use, but that doesn't make for a splashy all-natural blog post, which is why I think you hear less about it. I do hope you hear from long-term users ^_^


Personally, I've used this (http://www.maxgreenalchemy.com/Scalp-Rescue-Shampoo_p_10.html)for years now and love it.

Rapunzel_to_be
January 4th, 2018, 11:00 AM
I think most the positives are when people first switch over- it seems to work great for the first few weeks /months. The scalp and damage issues are after prolonged use, but that doesn't make for a splashy all-natural blog post, which is why I think you hear less about it. I do hope you hear from long-term users ^_^


Personally, I've used this (http://www.maxgreenalchemy.com/Scalp-Rescue-Shampoo_p_10.html)for years now and love it.

Thank you so so much, I really appreciate you taking your time to help me with this<3

It makes so sense when you put it like that... another thing that just swiped my mind was that it can't be good when my hair feels "hard" and waxy whilst in the shower..

I will definitely check that out and I'm quitting this ACV and dr bronner's thing as of today :)

lapushka
January 4th, 2018, 11:00 AM
Personally, I think there is nothing wrong with shampoo. But that's just me. I'm one that has to use sulfate shampoos to keep my SD (seborrheic dermatitis, fungal overgrowth) at bay. You don't want to risk getting fungi on your head, you don't because it is not that easy to get rid of and the means to get rid of it are often harsher solutions in and of themselves.

I think any sulfate-free wash will be *much* milder than what you're using now. L'Oral has the Ever-- range, there's OGX, there's Hask, and there is Shea Moisture. Maui moisture might be sulfate free too, as well as the Trader Joe Tea tree tingle shampoo.

Nightshade
January 4th, 2018, 11:07 AM
Thank you so so much, I really appreciate you taking your time to help me with this<3

It makes so sense when you put it like that... another thing that just swiped my mind was that it can't be good when my hair feels "hard" and waxy whilst in the shower..

I will definitely check that out and I'm quitting this ACV and dr bronner's thing as of today :)

http://blog.kanelstrand.com/2014/01/baking-soda-destroyed-my-hair.html

This was the blog post that really explained things well to me. She breaks down the science behind it really well!

Rapunzel_to_be
January 4th, 2018, 12:15 PM
Personally, I think there is nothing wrong with shampoo. But that's just me. I'm one that has to use sulfate shampoos to keep my SD (seborrheic dermatitis, fungal overgrowth) at bay. You don't want to risk getting fungi on your head, you don't because it is not that easy to get rid of and the means to get rid of it are often harsher solutions in and of themselves.

I think any sulfate-free wash will be *much* milder than what you're using now. L'Oral has the Ever-- range, there's OGX, there's Hask, and there is Shea Moisture. Maui moisture might be sulfate free too, as well as the Trader Joe Tea tree tingle shampoo.

Yes, I agree, but I think I actually experienced getting some fungal infection once or twice when I was using normal shampoos.
The reason why I would like to stay away from them are cause im thinking about the environment and as well myself, so I would like to restrain from using any synthetic chemicals on my body, scalp and hair.

Rapunzel_to_be
January 4th, 2018, 12:15 PM
http://blog.kanelstrand.com/2014/01/baking-soda-destroyed-my-hair.html

This was the blog post that really explained things well to me. She breaks down the science behind it really well!

Thank you so much, I'll definitely read it ! :) :)

Waveurly
January 4th, 2018, 12:35 PM
I wash my hair with dr. bronners castile soap. If I use the soap, I do use an acid rinse afterwards, mainly water with white vinegar, or with lemon or a coffee rinse. I have been using this maybe for half a year but every now and then use a sulfate shampoo as well or a sulfate free shampoo. Maybe that is not enough for the long term but I have not seen any problems other than that my hair seems slightly straighter if I use dr. bronners. But my water is also hard water so it reacts on my hair. Usually the problem is solved after the acid rinse.
Personally I can't use sulfate shampoos too much, I wish I could, but they irritate my scalp almost every time and give me more dandruff. The dr. bronners actually relieves the irritation a whole lot. I know I have really oily hair but it seems to be dermatitis ater I've read about it.
The reason why I started using castile soap is because many women in the victorian era had really long hair, and they used soap to wash their hair. I know the science behind it and I know that it is alkaline. But many people in the past used soap to wash their hair and had long hair. They did dilute it a lot, usually only a dash of soap in warm water. I do not dilute it at the moment because it doesn't work as well with my hard water. I can't use baking soda, it makes my hair really dry. I do not use the castile soap on the lenghts of my hair, only on the scalp. It is great for my scalp but not for my lengths, and usually use a combination with a sulfate free shampoo on the lengths.
Basically it is the only thing that really seems to help against my scalp irritations.
Also I've seen a girl on youtube and her channel is called LambLike, and she uses it with success against psoriasis and dermatitis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsU1tCcAxLw&t=539s

akurah
January 4th, 2018, 01:23 PM
Yes, I agree, but I think I actually experienced getting some fungal infection once or twice when I was using normal shampoos.
The reason why I would like to stay away from them are cause im thinking about the environment and as well myself, so I would like to restrain from using any synthetic chemicals on my body, scalp and hair.

Nizoral is antifungal. I think Head and Shoulders is too. Tea tree oil is naturally antifungal so if you find a shampoo with that ingredient (Giovanni used to make one, I don’t know if they still do), that might help as well.

Rapunzel_to_be
January 4th, 2018, 01:36 PM
Nizoral is antifungal. I think Head and Shoulders is too. Tea tree oil is naturally antifungal so if you find a shampoo with that ingredient (Giovanni used to make one, I don’t know if they still do), that might help as well.

Thanks:) Thankfully I do not struggle with fungi anymore, it happened twice many years ago, and went away after I got it treated :)

Dewdrop
January 4th, 2018, 01:37 PM
I think it's incredibly bad long-term and have experienced a lot of customers who have asked about solutions to scalp fungus and damage, and after questioning, this (and also baking soda washes) are the go-to culprits. Both can cause you to develop serious damage and scalp fungus after prolonged use.

This is because both Bronner's and baking soda are very alkaline (Bronner's has a pH of ~8.9). Human hair and scalp oil, sebum, has a pH balance of between 4.5 and 5.5. This natural hair acidity (called the acid mantle) prevents fungi and bacteria in the hair and scalp, and keeps the cuticle closed and healthy.

Washing with alkaline solutions, even if followed by an ACV rinse, is damaging to the hair, and the disruption of the acid mantle is simply not worth it. A pH balanced shampoo is designed not to disrupt the acid mantle. An alkaline solution does so, and an ACV rinse does not restore the acid mantle, only neutralizes the surface environment.

Thank you for this amazing explanation! Do you have sny recommendations for restoring the acid mantle of you scalp, or is it impossible?

Rapunzel_to_be
January 4th, 2018, 01:41 PM
I wash my hair with dr. bronners castile soap. If I use the soap, I do use an acid rinse afterwards, mainly water with white vinegar, or with lemon or a coffee rinse. I have been using this maybe for half a year but every now and then use a sulfate shampoo as well or a sulfate free shampoo. Maybe that is not enough for the long term but I have not seen any problems other than that my hair seems slightly straighter if I use dr. bronners. But my water is also hard water so it reacts on my hair. Usually the problem is solved after the acid rinse.
Personally I can't use sulfate shampoos too much, I wish I could, but they irritate my scalp almost every time and give me more dandruff. The dr. bronners actually relieves the irritation a whole lot. I know I have really oily hair but it seems to be dermatitis ater I've read about it.
The reason why I started using castile soap is because many women in the victorian era had really long hair, and they used soap to wash their hair. I know the science behind it and I know that it is alkaline. But many people in the past used soap to wash their hair and had long hair. They did dilute it a lot, usually only a dash of soap in warm water. I do not dilute it at the moment because it doesn't work as well with my hard water. I can't use baking soda, it makes my hair really dry. I do not use the castile soap on the lenghts of my hair, only on the scalp. It is great for my scalp but not for my lengths, and usually use a combination with a sulfate free shampoo on the lengths.
Basically it is the only thing that really seems to help against my scalp irritations.
Also I've seen a girl on youtube and her channel is called LambLike, and she uses it with success against psoriasis and dermatitis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsU1tCcAxLw&t=539s

Yeah, thats the thing.. I also havent diluted it and I found that I needed to wash at least twice for it to become clean... and the water here is soft water..
Ive also experienced my hair getting straighter as well.. and it actually gets a lot greasier on the second day. I really wish I couldve used it as diluted as the women did back in those times.. I want something natural, without syntethic chemicals etc.. but also something that isn't as alkaline as soap...

I'll definitely check out the youtube channel, thanks and thanks so much for sharing your experience! :) :)

akurah
January 4th, 2018, 03:13 PM
Thank you for this amazing explanation! Do you have sny recommendations for restoring the acid mantle of you scalp, or is it impossible?

It should recover by itself eventually. If you stop doing it.

lapushka
January 4th, 2018, 03:19 PM
I want something natural, without syntethic chemicals etc.. but also something that isn't as alkaline as soap...

I'll definitely check out the youtube channel, thanks and thanks so much for sharing your experience! :) :)

Isn't everything synthetic? Or, you'd have to make your shampoo from scratch and DIY it. Even Dr. Bronners is filled with chemical compounds, I think.

Dendra
January 4th, 2018, 03:53 PM
I've used Dr. Bronner's as shampoo a couple of times, but it didn't seem to get my hair really clean, instead it felt like it left a waxy residue which I now know is common with soaps unless you do an acid rinse.

I would second others and say you might have more luck with a mild shampoo, I can vouch for the L'Oreal sulphate-free range that lapushka mentioned.

I also used to be focused on using the most natural cosmetics possible, but after learning about how companies 'greenwash' I've realised most of it is marketing. Don't be tricked into thinking mainstream cosmetic ingredients are inherently bad! (http://thebeautybrains.com/2014/11/be-careful-what-you-believe-about-ingredient-lists/)

Of course, if using Dr Bronner's continues to work for you then there's no problem :)

Nightshade
January 4th, 2018, 03:57 PM
Thank you for this amazing explanation! Do you have sny recommendations for restoring the acid mantle of you scalp, or is it impossible?

It will restore itself in time (likely in a week or two) on its own and a properly pH balanced shampoo makes this much easier as it sets the proper pH for re-establishment. The issue is just that most people doing alkaline washing methods are doing them more than once a week, so the acid mantle doesn't properly restore, and if it does, only for a short period of time.


The straightness of hair after alkaline washes is also because of the pH. The structure and shape of your hair is made up of disulphide bonds. While the curliness (or straightness) of your hair depends on the shape of the follicle, it’s the disulphide bonds that keep the hair in the shape it was formed, and they can only be altered by perming or relaxing.

Disulphide bonds also give your hair its elasticity and strength. Hydrogen bonds, on the other hand, are easily broken by the application of water and can be temporarily reset with heat until they become wet again (either from washing or humidity).

Hair relaxers use hydroxide to break disulphide bonds permanently, and over time baking soda, castille soap, or other alkaline washing methods can do the same. You cannot destroy the disulphide bonds in your hair without incurring damage as they are, quite literally, what gives your hair shape and structure.

Pumpkin3826
January 4th, 2018, 04:07 PM
I love Dr. Bronners!!! I have tried to use it on my hair and it made it super dry sadly. It works wonders on my face though! I have battled with adult acne and this dry's out my skin so much it clears up the acne! I just put on a nice moisturizer or coconut oil after. It is amazing. :o Also when I had blunt bangs I would wash my face in the shower with the Dr. Bronners and I would just incorporate my bangs in my washing that way I have fresh bangs everyday! That is a fun little trick for anyone who has bangs that is reading this! Lol.

Chromis
January 4th, 2018, 04:09 PM
Basically this is the same as using a shampoo bar, just liquid. C'mon by to the shampoo bar thread sometime!

I have not used Doc Bronner's for this, but I have used soap-based shampoo bars for over a decade without any of the ill effects people are cautioning about and so have several others on that thread. My hair and scalp are much, much happier with shampoo bars than they were with detergent shampoos (regardless of them having SLS or not!)

Nightshade
January 4th, 2018, 04:20 PM
Basically this is the same as using a shampoo bar, just liquid. C'mon by to the shampoo bar thread sometime!

I have not used Doc Bronner's for this, but I have used soap-based shampoo bars for over a decade without any of the ill effects people are cautioning about and so have several others on that thread. My hair and scalp are much, much happier with shampoo bars than they were with detergent shampoos (regardless of them having SLS or not!)

I'll readily admit my sample size of experience is from people who have scalp and damage problems, so I'm not seeing / hearing from the people for whom this works (i.e. my sample is self-selecting because they're all reaching out for help)

My caution was that some people can have issues and explain why, and what to look out for so if OP ran into these problems she would know where they were stemming from ^_^ I know a lot of people here use this and shampoo bars successfully, but I also know that flavor-of-the-month "natural" blogs are bad about fessing up when their latest totally successful experiment doesn't shake out long term.

Chromis
January 4th, 2018, 04:31 PM
I'll readily admit my sample size of experience is from people who have scalp and damage problems, so I'm not seeing / hearing from the people for whom this works (i.e. my sample is self-selecting because they're all reaching out for help)

My caution was that some people can have issues and explain why, and what to look out for so if OP ran into these problems she would know where they were stemming from ^_^ I know a lot of people here use this and shampoo bars successfully, but I also know that flavor-of-the-month "natural" blogs are bad about fessing up when their latest totally successful experiment doesn't shake out long term.

That is why I was directing to the thread here. I am pretty skeptical of those sort of blogs too! Shampoo bars do not work for everyone, but then neither does CO washing or sulphates for that matter.

Andthetalltrees
January 5th, 2018, 12:18 AM
In my experience which I can only account for. It works absolutely amazing at first, My hair gets wavier, It just looks really great and it acts even better. But after a month or two at most of continuous washings, my hair gets a icky crunchy dry but sticky feeling on it I can't get rid of. It starts to look really oily even if I have just washed it. I tried diluting it to something like a teaspoon in a liter of water, Acid rinse ect but it just doesn't work long term at all.

Katia_k
January 5th, 2018, 12:23 AM
Also, it's not everyone's cup of tea, but if you are looking to go very very natural, there's always the entirely herbal route. It's a bit more of a pain than having shampoo in a bottle, and YMMV entirely, but at least for me it's done a great job and my scalp is, on the whole, much happier (except for now because Minnesota winter is killing it but that's a different story).

I use shikakai and some other herbal powders, and it's served me super well as a shampoo. There're some good threads in the Recipe section if you wanna take a look.

victorian girl
January 5th, 2018, 01:29 AM
My great-grandmother used to wash her hair with an even harsher laundry bar soap (pH 11-12) and rinse with vinegar, and she had long (classic or even mid-thigh length), thick hair till her last days. My hair is a bit like hers, but finer and thinner, and I'd probably go bald if I use her methods!

ETA: And I suppose she didn't wash her hair often: she was born in 1909 in a working-class family, and at the time all the magazines and household and beauty manuals recommended washing your hair from once a week to once a month, and using boar bristle brush and dry shampoo (or potato starch) in between washes. But her mother was very proud of her long hair and there was lots of TLC from the very young age, for sure.

Rapunzel_to_be
January 5th, 2018, 09:53 AM
Isn't everything synthetic? Or, you'd have to make your shampoo from scratch and DIY it. Even Dr. Bronners is filled with chemical compounds, I think.

As far as I know they do not use any synthetic preservatives or other synthetic stuff:) I'm actually considering trying out the water only method, or maybe try water only combined with washing hair once in a while with soap nuts. Still researching though:p

akurah
January 5th, 2018, 10:12 AM
As far as I know they do not use any synthetic preservatives or other synthetic stuff:) I'm actually considering trying out the water only method, or maybe try water only combined with washing hair once in a while with soap nuts. Still researching though:p

Everything is chemicals. Synthetic is identical to natural. And frankly, there is nothing wrong with chemicals, the primary reason we manipulate stuff into various chemicals is because it more effective (less effort for same result) or because it’s safer.

You can poison yourself with water. So the whole “chemicals are bad” schtick and “natural is good” is a massive pet peeve of mine. You’re far more likely to injure or make yourself sick from a lot of the natural stuff being peddled than the non-natural stuff.

That’s not to say natural is bad either. You don’t want to wash your hair with baking soda because it’s going to eventually destroy your hair. But soap should be fine if other precautions are taken (rinses, etc). This is just a liquid soap.

Rapunzel_to_be
January 5th, 2018, 11:45 AM
Everything is chemicals. Synthetic is identical to natural. And frankly, there is nothing wrong with chemicals, the primary reason we manipulate stuff into various chemicals is because it more effective (less effort for same result) or because it’s safer.

You can poison yourself with water. So the whole “chemicals are bad” schtick and “natural is good” is a massive pet peeve of mine. You’re far more likely to injure or make yourself sick from a lot of the natural stuff being peddled than the non-natural stuff.

That’s not to say natural is bad either. You don’t want to wash your hair with baking soda because it’s going to eventually destroy your hair. But soap should be fine if other precautions are taken (rinses, etc). This is just a liquid soap.

I disagree. I believe that synthetic chemicals made in a lab by humans are not better than what mother earth has given us, not saying that the all natural can't have its bad side either. There are many studies that have shown how our water, harming animals and humans, and our bodies have been and can be affected by the synthetic chemicals used in cosmetic products.

Rapunzel_to_be
January 5th, 2018, 11:47 AM
Basically this is the same as using a shampoo bar, just liquid. C'mon by to the shampoo bar thread sometime!

I have not used Doc Bronner's for this, but I have used soap-based shampoo bars for over a decade without any of the ill effects people are cautioning about and so have several others on that thread. My hair and scalp are much, much happier with shampoo bars than they were with detergent shampoos (regardless of them having SLS or not!)

OOh thanks:D I'll definitely check it out!!:) Thank you for sharing your personal experience btw! Do you also do an ACV rinse after you use the soap based shampoo bar?

Rapunzel_to_be
January 5th, 2018, 11:49 AM
In my experience which I can only account for. It works absolutely amazing at first, My hair gets wavier, It just looks really great and it acts even better. But after a month or two at most of continuous washings, my hair gets a icky crunchy dry but sticky feeling on it I can't get rid of. It starts to look really oily even if I have just washed it. I tried diluting it to something like a teaspoon in a liter of water, Acid rinse ect but it just doesn't work long term at all.

Oh wow.. I was actually thinking that maybe diluting the soap with water might work, but glad to hear your story, cause somehow I feel it wouldn't work on myself either.. I need to wash it twice with half a tablespoon of dr bronner's soap per wash...

Rapunzel_to_be
January 5th, 2018, 11:51 AM
Also, it's not everyone's cup of tea, but if you are looking to go very very natural, there's always the entirely herbal route. It's a bit more of a pain than having shampoo in a bottle, and YMMV entirely, but at least for me it's done a great job and my scalp is, on the whole, much happier (except for now because Minnesota winter is killing it but that's a different story).

I use shikakai and some other herbal powders, and it's served me super well as a shampoo. There're some good threads in the Recipe section if you wanna take a look.

Thanks so much!:) I've been very curious about the whole herbal washing method, and I actually bought shikakai powder 2 years ago with the intention of washing my hair with it, but I totally forgot about it... but I need to give it a try <3

Chromis
January 5th, 2018, 09:02 PM
OOh thanks:D I'll definitely check it out!!:) Thank you for sharing your personal experience btw! Do you also do an ACV rinse after you use the soap based shampoo bar?

Yep, I always do an acidic rinse. In extremely hard water I used a mixture of ACV and citric acid. Now that we have a water softener I can just use ACV and only occasionally use the citric. I do tend to use a stronger mix than many other people which I have detailed in the thread somewhere a few times.

Dr. Bronners does seem a little trickier to me since it is very concentrated. I would dilute for sure, but I have no clue by how much.

Simsy
January 6th, 2018, 12:22 AM
Yeah, thats the thing.. I also havent diluted it and I found that I needed to wash at least twice for it to become clean... and the water here is soft water..
Ive also experienced my hair getting straighter as well.. and it actually gets a lot greasier on the second day. I really wish I couldve used it as diluted as the women did back in those times.. I want something natural, without syntethic chemicals etc.. but also something that isn't as alkaline as soap...

I'll definitely check out the youtube channel, thanks and thanks so much for sharing your experience! :) :)

Something that bears mentioning, hair washing wasnt a regular thing back then. At best, hair was washed maybe once or twice a season, monthly at most. Thats why they could use soap without as many side effects. These days, we wash hair more often, so had to come up with gentler alternatives to use.

I dont think the soap itself isnt so much the problem as the method and frequency of use.

Rapunzel_to_be
January 6th, 2018, 04:52 AM
Yep, I always do an acidic rinse. In extremely hard water I used a mixture of ACV and citric acid. Now that we have a water softener I can just use ACV and only occasionally use the citric. I do tend to use a stronger mix than many other people which I have detailed in the thread somewhere a few times.

Dr. Bronners does seem a little trickier to me since it is very concentrated. I would dilute for sure, but I have no clue by how much.

Yeah, it seems very concentrated to me too.. the only problem is that I don't think my hair would be clean if I would dilute it cause I have to wash it twice and I use a tablespoon of dr bronner's soap to do that.. :(

Rapunzel_to_be
January 6th, 2018, 04:54 AM
Something that bears mentioning, hair washing wasn’t a regular thing back then. At best, hair was washed maybe once or twice a season, monthly at most. That’s why they could use soap without as many side effects. These days, we wash hair more often, so had to come up with gentler alternatives to use.

I don’t think the soap itself isn’t so much the problem as the method and frequency of use.

Ah yes, I agree. Didn't know that they washed their hair that seldom, but its very interesting to know:) I have to wash it EVERY day using Dr bronner's.... and that is why I started questioning if its really good for my hair.. cause it seems a bit harsh, especially using it everyday.. and I can't get away with stretching it..

hayheadsbird
January 6th, 2018, 05:16 AM
Ah yes, I agree. Didn't know that they washed their hair that seldom, but its very interesting to know:) I have to wash it EVERY day using Dr bronner's.... and that is why I started questioning if its really good for my hair.. cause it seems a bit harsh, especially using it everyday.. and I can't get away with stretching it..

Could it be because it's harsh you have to wash everyday, so your scalp is producing more oil to compensate?

I've moved over to a milder sls free shampoo, and my washes are still stretching out slowly after almost a year. It's heading towards a week now between washes.

Rapunzel_to_be
January 6th, 2018, 06:22 AM
Could it be because it's harsh you have to wash everyday, so your scalp is producing more oil to compensate?

I've moved over to a milder sls free shampoo, and my washes are still stretching out slowly after almost a year. It's heading towards a week now between washes.

Yeah I think that might be the reason... :(

Ive been actually using a milder SLS shampoo for some years now, but I never quite managed to stretch the shampooing more than 3 days..:(

hayheadsbird
January 6th, 2018, 06:55 AM
Yeah I think that might be the reason... :(

Ive been actually using a milder SLS shampoo for some years now, but I never quite managed to stretch the shampooing more than 3 days..:(
3 days is better than daily though!

I was at a twice a week for a good while, it's only been the past couple of months I've noticed I can go an extra day or so. I'd try gong back to a milder wash less often and building up really slowly

Chromis
January 6th, 2018, 07:48 AM
I wash once a week-ish sometimes closer to two this time of year because my scalp/skin/everything has been so dry.

Rather than just using more soap, what I do is more than one pass. The soap hardly lathers at all first on the first go. I pet the bar down my scalp and length and then lift my hair a bit to get under the nape and behind the ears. The next pass I only do scalp. I find with soap I can't just let the suds run down the length. I started with shampoo bars just past bsl, so maybe that works if you are short enough though? Same deal with naturally soft water. Before we got the water softener here I did three passes (I should mention, I live with the hardest water in Canada and conventional shampoo also works better with more than one pass and an acidic rinse here).

ReptilianFeline
January 6th, 2018, 09:17 AM
I don't have Dr. Bronner soaps, but we make something here in Sweden called "spa" - a kind of liquid soap made from pinetree oil and potassium hydroxide. It's sold as natural, since the main ingredient is pinetree oil. These days is is a kind of nice thing to use because the pinetree oil is one of the things left over from the paper industry and it is a very old fasion thing.

I like "spa" because when you smear it all over the inside of your oven, and then put the oven on for a while, let it cool down a bit, all you need to do then is to whipe with water and the oven is really really clean without having to resort to those harsh oven cleaners you spray on and you then need to leave the kitchen.
I also like it because it cleans my toilet very well.
It is also used to felt wool.
It is also used to clean hard wood floors.
It's alos used to wash your clothes in.
The pH is about 10.5.
I tried it as a part of my shampoo mix once. It's is helpful as a disenfectant for the scalp, but UGH! If it felts wool it will felt your hair as well and I don't want dreads.

I don't mind chemicals... we are all made up of different chemical molecules, but it's the combo of them that can either be good or bad. Mix two together and you get something new. Lye and oil becomes soap.

I am going down the road of basic plant shampoo mixes. So far it seem to be working and my one time trial of "spa" has done no damage, but I will not use it again on my hair.

Simsy
January 7th, 2018, 12:43 AM
Ah yes, I agree. Didn't know that they washed their hair that seldom, but its very interesting to know:) I have to wash it EVERY day using Dr bronner's.... and that is why I started questioning if its really good for my hair.. cause it seems a bit harsh, especially using it everyday.. and I can't get away with stretching it..

They used other methods to clean their hair between washes. If you have ever heard of the 100 stokes with a hair brush before bed, that was a way to brush the dust out; and distribut the hair oil down the length. They also tended to tie their hair up and cover it when doing messy or sweaty tasks; and hair was allowed to throughly dry if it got wet or damp. They were also fairly light on the sprays, gels and powders; depending on the individual of course.

Rapunzel_to_be
January 7th, 2018, 11:49 AM
They used other methods to clean their hair between washes. If you have ever heard of the 100 stokes with a hair brush before bed, that was a way to brush the dust out; and distribut the hair oil down the length. They also tended to tie their hair up and cover it when doing messy or sweaty tasks; and hair was allowed to throughly dry if it got wet or damp. They were also fairly light on the sprays, gels and powders; depending on the individual of course.

Yeah, Ive heard of the 100 strokes with a brush, and actually saw that this is an essential part of keeping hair clean doing the water only method. This is so interesting <3 I also do not use any kinds of gels or creams or sprays, just pure natural oils :)

Rapunzel_to_be
January 7th, 2018, 11:49 AM
3 days is better than daily though!

I was at a twice a week for a good while, it's only been the past couple of months I've noticed I can go an extra day or so. I'd try gong back to a milder wash less often and building up really slowly

Yeah its good, but like on the third day my hair is pretty oily.. so I'd rather not stretch it that long u know..

Rapunzel_to_be
January 7th, 2018, 11:54 AM
I wash once a week-ish sometimes closer to two this time of year because my scalp/skin/everything has been so dry.

Rather than just using more soap, what I do is more than one pass. The soap hardly lathers at all first on the first go. I pet the bar down my scalp and length and then lift my hair a bit to get under the nape and behind the ears. The next pass I only do scalp. I find with soap I can't just let the suds run down the length. I started with shampoo bars just past bsl, so maybe that works if you are short enough though? Same deal with naturally soft water. Before we got the water softener here I did three passes (I should mention, I live with the hardest water in Canada and conventional shampoo also works better with more than one pass and an acidic rinse here).

I did actually wash my hair twise with the dr bronner's soap, but I still needed to wash it every day.. but like you said it might be to concentrated, so it dries out my scalp, resulting to more oil production. My hair is mid back , close to waist, so I need to wash the length as well ( at least with dr bronners). I would like to order one of the shampoo bars mentioned in the shampoo bar thread and try those out, maybe I will like it better than Dr bronner's.
I currently have soap nut liquid in my hair, trying that out for the first time,will be interesting to see how it turns out ( especially cause I oiled my hair with coconut oil prior to the soap nut solution) :D

Rapunzel_to_be
January 7th, 2018, 11:55 AM
I don't have Dr. Bronner soaps, but we make something here in Sweden called "spa" - a kind of liquid soap made from pinetree oil and potassium hydroxide. It's sold as natural, since the main ingredient is pinetree oil. These days is is a kind of nice thing to use because the pinetree oil is one of the things left over from the paper industry and it is a very old fasion thing.

I like "spa" because when you smear it all over the inside of your oven, and then put the oven on for a while, let it cool down a bit, all you need to do then is to whipe with water and the oven is really really clean without having to resort to those harsh oven cleaners you spray on and you then need to leave the kitchen.
I also like it because it cleans my toilet very well.
It is also used to felt wool.
It is also used to clean hard wood floors.
It's alos used to wash your clothes in.
The pH is about 10.5.
I tried it as a part of my shampoo mix once. It's is helpful as a disenfectant for the scalp, but UGH! If it felts wool it will felt your hair as well and I don't want dreads.

I don't mind chemicals... we are all made up of different chemical molecules, but it's the combo of them that can either be good or bad. Mix two together and you get something new. Lye and oil becomes soap.

I am going down the road of basic plant shampoo mixes. So far it seem to be working and my one time trial of "spa" has done no damage, but I will not use it again on my hair.

We have something similar here in Norway "grnnspe", its probably the same thing :D I've never tried it for my hair though, but its great for cleaning :)

Dewdrop
January 7th, 2018, 03:01 PM
It should recover by itself eventually. If you stop doing it.


It will restore itself in time (likely in a week or two) on its own and a properly pH balanced shampoo makes this much easier as it sets the proper pH for re-establishment. The issue is just that most people doing alkaline washing methods are doing them more than once a week, so the acid mantle doesn't properly restore, and if it does, only for a short period of time.


The straightness of hair after alkaline washes is also because of the pH. The structure and shape of your hair is made up of disulphide bonds. While the curliness (or straightness) of your hair depends on the shape of the follicle, its the disulphide bonds that keep the hair in the shape it was formed, and they can only be altered by perming or relaxing.

Disulphide bonds also give your hair its elasticity and strength. Hydrogen bonds, on the other hand, are easily broken by the application of water and can be temporarily reset with heat until they become wet again (either from washing or humidity).

Hair relaxers use hydroxide to break disulphide bonds permanently, and over time baking soda, castille soap, or other alkaline washing methods can do the same. You cannot destroy the disulphide bonds in your hair without incurring damage as they are, quite literally, what gives your hair shape and structure.

I'm quite late, but I did want to thank you both for responding. Hair science is very interesting. It's also very good to know not to overdo it on the baking soda!

Nightshade
January 7th, 2018, 04:04 PM
I'm quite late, but I did want to thank you both for responding. Hair science is very interesting. It's also very good to know not to overdo it on the baking soda!

You are so welcome :) I love this kind of stuff.

Simsy
January 8th, 2018, 05:00 AM
I did actually wash my hair twise with the dr bronner's soap, but I still needed to wash it every day.. but like you said it might be to concentrated, so it dries out my scalp, resulting to more oil production. My hair is mid back , close to waist, so I need to wash the length as well ( at least with dr bronners). I would like to order one of the shampoo bars mentioned in the shampoo bar thread and try those out, maybe I will like it better than Dr bronner's.
I currently have soap nut liquid in my hair, trying that out for the first time,will be interesting to see how it turns out ( especially cause I oiled my hair with coconut oil prior to the soap nut solution) :D

Thinking further on this, would it help to lightly oil your scalp after washing? Just to help it calm down and maybe not panic on the oil production so fast? Of course your mileage will likely vary, but I know my scalp settled right down after I stared oiling my hair regularly.

Rapunzel_to_be
January 9th, 2018, 09:32 AM
Thinking further on this, would it help to lightly oil your scalp after washing? Just to help it calm down and maybe not panic on the oil production so fast? Of course your mileage will likely vary, but I know my scalp settled right down after I stared oiling my hair regularly.

Hhmmm, I mean I do oil my hair and scalp once per week and been doing so for many many years. But never tried to lightly oil my scalp after showering though, I might give it a try:) I actually washed my hair with soap nuts for the first time two days ago, and I LOVE it, so I think I've found my holy grail <3 My hair has no frizz and feels so clean and shiny and nice. I didn't even need to use conditioner, which I could never live without before <3 SOO happy !! Although now on the 3rd day, my hair is slightly looking a bit oily, so I will take your tip and try it out and oil my scalp lightly after showering and see if that'll allow me to go even longer without washing my hair :D

Veganmayhem
January 29th, 2018, 08:19 AM
I used it when on vacation and it felt so clean!!!

Deborah
January 29th, 2018, 11:33 AM
I tried it years ago. It cleaned fine, but my hair felt weird and coated, and it was less shiny. I would not recommend it.

simoneymonie
January 29th, 2018, 11:37 AM
I tried it once, and it made my hair weird and sticky and gunky and stretchy. Just a weird texture. I ended up going to a salon to have them shampoo my hair after washing it with Dr Bronners, because I couldn't stand it.

Astia
January 29th, 2018, 01:12 PM
Everything is chemicals. Synthetic is identical to natural. And frankly, there is nothing wrong with chemicals, the primary reason we manipulate stuff into various chemicals is because it more effective (less effort for same result) or because its safer.


It's identical, but many times there's a byproduct that can't be separated and can cause reactions to sensitive people. Also synthetic fragrances are basically a cocktail of xyz chemicals with no real regulations. Not that all natural stuff is safe and good - some of the most lethal poisons are natural.

To OP: you can try washing WO, with rhassoul, Eliah Sahil makes powder shampoos based on clay, Lavearde from Logona, or Ziziphus spina-christi leaf. Rhassoul is a challenge if you have longer than APL. Personally I have good experience with watered down Logona shampoos (cca 1 ml in 30 ml of water, shake, apply, 2x), Desert Essence is also popular choice + they have HCS certificate, but I have yet to try it diluted, undiluted caused itching (coconut version, love the C). I would love to use Shea moisture but price + shipping from the only EU shop that I know of is too much.