The Archives: The Merged NW/SO/WO Thread [Archive] - The Long Hair Community Discussion Boards

ruthietoothie

March 8th, 2008, 07:00 PM

Yay!!! So happy to see you all here again!

I definitely think someone should write an article on NW/SO... it's so nice to have all the information in one place for newbies! They always come to the thread for encouragement, but it can get daunting to try to read 100's of pages!

Thank you Rosa, Hairytale, Freznow, and everyone else for your help, support and encouragement to me through this transition. I have really needed it, and I desperately missed it while LHC was down before I found TBB. Like I said, my hair is looking better when up at least, so I know I am on the right track. I have a few important events at the end of this month, so I may end up rinsing around then. We will see. As of now, I am almost 2 1/2 months into NW, without a single rinse! It's been gruesome at times, but I've made it this far and I am not turning around now! I am going to see this through for at least 3 more weeks. Hopefully I will continue to see improvement.

I found this interesting: Earlier this week I experimented w/ misting my hair and "scrunching" it to see if it would look good down that way. Well, it didn't, but what I found interesting is how much the misting dried out my hair! My ends were so frizzed...why would a misting do that? Any thoughts? I didn't drench the hair, and not even the scalp at all, so why would the ends get so dry and icky? It seems to have evened itself out by the next day, but wow, I sure am a little scared to rinse now even!

nappywomyn

March 8th, 2008, 07:29 PM

Whoops - totally wrong thread!

tigerlily

March 8th, 2008, 08:08 PM

Hi all, I didn't really participate in the old NW thread but the original reason I joined LHC was for the WO thread (and then got caught up from there) and I sort of am hovering in between WO and NW (loong time between rinses)

Ruthie, what I find helps better than rinsing if my hair is getting a bit too oily is a dry shampoo (I just use arrowroot powder in a small container with a top with holes in it to sprinkle the powder through. cornstarch should be just as good) you don't need much, just sprinkle a little on your scalp and massage in a bit, then brush out very well.

I have read that a piece of dry chamois leather can soak up the extra oil from the hair, just take a lock at a time and gently pull through a fold in the chamois from the scalp down.
I haven't got a piece of chamois to try it out with yet, so I can't tell you how it works.
Good luck :)

Hairytale

March 9th, 2008, 01:20 AM

I also think it would be really helpful to have an article about NW/SO. But I can imagine that it would be much work for one person, so maybe we decide the topics we're going to write about and everyone who wants to take one (or how many s/he manages) topic summarizes information about it.
The topics could be such as "How do I preen?" or "How do I brush?" or "What will help my hair become less/more sebumy?" or "What is the theory behind NW?" or "Reasons to go NW" or "What are helpful updos to hide greasies?" or something like that.

I am willing to write something, but I don't have very much time, so if anyone would like to help me, I'd really appreciate that! :)

Also a very warm welcome to nappywomyn and tigerlily, perhaps we'll have two more NW fellows around here! :)
Feel free to ask anything you're interested in!

Greetings,

Hairytale. :)

movie zombie

March 9th, 2008, 11:45 AM

well, i don't know if i'm glad to report or sad to report in.

i was SO/NW from october 15, 2007 through march 4, 2008. not even a water rinse in all that time. as many may know i was not entirely happy with how my hair was looking. so just 11 days shy of 5 months SO, i did a minimal hair shampoo and minimal conditioner on the ends which i then rinsed out. went out and tried my hair in the sunshine and i had the hair i wanted.

i used so little shampoo and conditioner that i still had a lot of body in my hair. i have not wet my hair since then. i'm going to keep shampooing and conditioning to a very very minimum and not use either on my scalp. i'm hoping to not to wash more than once very couple of weeks or even once a month.

if nothing else, i think going for almost 5 months SO helped my hair and i think it would be a mistake to try and go squeaky clean. on the other hand, i just wasn't happy with the total SO look for me, especially as i want to wear my hair down and it just didn't look that great down.

i'm going to work hard at being a minimalist with shampoo/rinses/conditioners, etc. at this point, having not washed my hair squeaky clean and leaving the scalp alone except for water, my hair shows no evidence of needing to be oiled.

i want to thank all of you that gave encouragement and kept me going early on. i'll check back in periodically to see how you all are doing. right now i'm loving how my hair looks and feels. i can see myself going SO for weeks and perhaps even a month, especially if traveling. right now i want to see how long i can go with my hair down and looking good, then maybe wear it up a few days to see just how long i think i can go between washes.

again, thanks to you all!

movie zombie

ruthietoothie

March 9th, 2008, 06:58 PM

Movie Zombie,
thanks for the update! Happy healthy hair is the most important thing, and feeling comfortable w/ it too. So I hope you have found what will keep you happy!

I don't know what my hair routine will end up being. I can't know though until I give this NW a fair try...

movie zombie

March 9th, 2008, 09:15 PM

ruthie,

it was hard to break the SO......the thought of starting over almost made me not shampoo. however, i just had to be totally honest with myself that after almost 5 months, i just wasn't happy with it. the next day, march 5, i actually had someone comment on how great my hair looked! it had been a really long time since that had happened.

i also found that with all the combing, brushing, grooming, i was starting to lose a lot of hair. i think for my hair type it was just too much handling. hair loss seems to be lessened now that i'm not grooming it as much.

hope it works for you! it was a worthwhile experiment imo.

movie zombie

brok3nwings

March 9th, 2008, 09:24 PM

im sorry to ask such a stupid question but i really dont know. What is this? What does to your hair? For how many time do you stay without washing your hair? Will it eventually come clean with the sebum process?

Hairytale

March 10th, 2008, 02:06 AM

NW/SO means: no water/sebum only.
So it's basically a method of not washing your hair in any way and just letting the sebum do its things. Of course, this may seem a method with little effort, but in fact it needs quite some practice do get the right routine: massaging and scritching help to remove gunk from the scalp, preening makes sure the entire hair shaft is covered in sebum instead of just the roots.
The first few weeks can be (and are for most of the people) hard because you are producing too much sebum. But after a time, the sebum production slows down (it will not stop entirely) and your hair begins to look good or at least better. Some of us are able to wear their hair down, but some of us like wear it up and forget about it, may it be due to the existence of greasies or due to the fact we are an updo addict (like me :D).

(That's all I remember, if you still have questions, please feel free to ask, there will be someone who knows the answer. :D)

Rosa.Damascena

March 10th, 2008, 04:48 AM

Hello NW-Ladys,

as for the article-question I will write one, but I could take a bit time to gather all the important informations together in a summary. :flower:

MerryKat

March 10th, 2008, 07:29 AM

Hi all
I can't remember when I last posted before the collapse, so I will just start from my restart.

I started back to NW with a final WO (after a December 07 of products! and terribly fuzzy and fly away hair!) on 1st Jan 08. Thanks to being WO in some form (with the odd deviation back to products) since mid 2006 my hair adapted very quickly.

I had given up my brush and comb (which my hair loved and it looked great), but found that after nearly 2 months my scalp was not coping. It was very dry and scaly and the scritching and massage did not seem to be enough to lift all the gunk. Two weeks ago I went back to my Denman brush and that has definitely made a difference. I still have some flaking, but not a huge amount. Even with massaging I do not seem to produce that much sebum and my scalp seems to be very dry.

To add to the misery my canopy started feeling really dry over the last few weeks.

I tied my hair up in a high bun and spritzed my scalp hair with a vinegar/water mix and slept like that and then the following morning I massaged coconut oil into my scalp and coated the length with it. My hair was a bit clumpy and over oiled for a couple of days, but the scalp is feeling better and the length is not so dry.

I am now 69 days NW and despite my unhappy couple of weeks I am still happily a NW follower.

AuNaturel

March 10th, 2008, 04:44 PM

Five months of NW here!

I last rinsed my hair on October 5, 2007. I was attracted to NW because the concept made sense to me -- that the hair's natural oils are there for a reason, and that in theory, that should be all we need to maintain healthy, conditioned hair. I have experimented with various other aspects of "simple living" and have found to my surprise, over the years, that giving up chemical products like aluminum-based deodorants and shampoos and soaps works really well! My skin is soft and clear with just OCM. My hair was thriving on WO. My body self-regulated and has no odor or sweat issues when I use just a dusting of cornstarch or baking powder under my arms. So experimenting with NW was a logical extension of that. I have found that the less I mess with my body's natural design, the better I feel and look.

I have very curly, dry, thick, 3c spiral hair. Somewhere between waist and hip length. During the first two months of NW, I experienced some frizz and fuzz around my hairline (normal for my hair, usually smoothed down with leave-in products). I eventually added aloe vera gel to my routine, to smooth down the top canopy, and I found that it didn't build up or affect the clean feeling of my NW hair; it just seemed to "disappear." I also used monoi coconut oil weekly on my ends and length. I combed daily to mechanically clean the scalp and hair, and to distribute the natural oils down my hair.

Five months and I'm still going strong. The biggest advantage is that my hair is very strong, very healthy, and I have virtually stopped shedding. Before NW I was WO, and on rinsing days I would lose a mess of hair down the drain. I have very thick hair and this has always been normal for me. Since moving to NW, I lose maybe 10 hairs a day. It's amazing.

The biggest disadvantage for me is that my hair is no longer in curls. It's straight, a particular kind of long, straightish fluff (all you super-curly girls who have brushed out your curls will know what I'm talking about). This is fine with me during the winter, since I wear my hair up or in braids exclusively. And, in fact, the extra shine and straightness imparted by NW is an advantage for the updos. But eventually I would like to wear my hair in all its spirally curly glory again, so I will probably transition back to WO during the summer, and then back to NW next winter.

ruthietoothie

March 11th, 2008, 07:57 AM

Wow, AuNaturel, thanks for posting! I think alot of curlies have wondered if this could work for them, so having your experience here is very helpful! I have had wavy hair my whole life (2b/2c), but also don't like that my hair is much straighter since being NW. Glad to see that I am not alone though! My hair is not very long yet (a bit below the shoulders), so oiling is NOT something I need for my hair at the moment. I would LOVE to see pics of your hair, AuNaturel, if you are willing to post some pics (you don't have to show your face, if you don't want to).

Rosa, I think you are the perfect person to write the article on NW/SO! Thanks so much for volunteering! Of course, if you need any help w/ it, just ask us here!

Merrykat, It's always nice to see your posts here...I enjoy seeing what you are doing w/ your hair, since you are not afraid to experiment and do new things! I like that !!! I also have similar hair to yours, so I enjoy seeing how it looks!

I am still NW, but am thinking of rinsing at the end of the month. We will see.

Hairytale

March 11th, 2008, 12:41 PM

Rosa, I think you are the perfect person to write the article on NW/SO! Thanks so much for volunteering! Of course, if you need any help w/ it, just ask us here!

I can only second that. :)

MerryKat, nice to hear from you again! It's good to hear your hair is nice behaving. :)

AuNaturel: that's nice to read! Welcome to the NW/SO fellowship! About your curls being gone - that's sad, of course, but your plan of going NW for the winter and WO for the summer sounds good! At least you're learning something important about your hair which might be useful. :)

As to me: today I am exactly four months of NW/SO. Hair is behaving nicely. I noticed that sometimes my hair has really good, near to perfect hair days, but sometimes there are still some bad hair days. But - at that's the news - the bad hair days aren't as bad as former bad hair days- And, some time ago, I did not have good hair days, but now I have.
This means there still is some progress, which makes me quite happy and leaves some hope for more perfect hair days to come...:D

Oh, and - I had a hair nightmare. I dreamt that while taking a shower, I rinsed my hair with water quite abscent-minded. When I realized what I had done, I was freaking out and was totally devastated. I was like "Oh no, after nearly four months of NW you have to start over again and on no, my hair will look terrible etc".
I wonder about the meaning of this dream. Okay, on the obvious level: I am happy being NW and I like the benefits it does to my hair.
But which meaning has hair got in dreams? And which has water?

Well, anyway, I noticed the same as AuNaturel. I had almost no shedding which I liked very much. But somehow shedding increased. It may be due to stress or due to bad nutrition, I don't know. But what improved is the condition of my scalp. I started NW because I had dry scalp issues, they were really horrible. Now they're almost gone!

Greetings from Hairytale! :D

freznow

March 11th, 2008, 03:54 PM

Hey peoples! Nice to see everyone together again! :)

I'm about 5.5 months NW now. My hair still hates brushes, so no BBBs are employed here, but I don't think I need them. My scalp produces so little oil that I have to oil the ends at least once a week. I'm trying to work out a good routine because right now it's going in a cycle of dry, then over-oiled after I put the jojoba on it, then almost *perfect*, then dry again because I forget to put oil on it when it's near perfect.

Hairytale, I've had the SAME dream! Multiple times. It freaks me out a lot. I'm always worried about accidentally rinsing and losing months... But I think that if I did rinse once for any reason I'd still count back to the first day if I went back to NW immediately. One miss-rinse shouldn't mess up the whole thing, should it? Another part of me wants to see what it'd be like if I did a WO or CO now - would it be ultra clean or so clean that it's dull or normal or what? I wonder if I'll be encouraged to go swimming this summer... I don't know if I'd put swimming over NW or vice versa.

Rosa, good luck with the article, and be sure to let us know if there's anything we can do to help!

ruthietoothie

March 12th, 2008, 12:33 AM

Just wondering, but would it be possible for NW hair to repel alot of water when swimming, therefore losing very little sebum? Sebum does repel water to a degree, so I think the water should not penetrate as much as it otherwise would...just a thought! Personally, I intend to swim as much as I want this summer (which is not very much seeing as we don't have easy access to a pool/lake/ocean)

MerryKat

March 12th, 2008, 07:40 AM

Hi guys
I had a horrid evening with my hair after taking it out of the updo when I got home from work. It felt heavy and just yucky. I gave it a good massage and heavy preening while watching Prison Break (around an hour) and then put it in a pony and brushed the scalp with my Denman. Took out the pony and massaged upside down before putting in my nighttime scrunchie bun.

I was sooooooooooooooo close to rinsing and only the thought of starting again stoped me.

Today it feels better and we will see once I get home from work and take it down.

Thanks for all your kind words.

Rosa.Damascena

March 12th, 2008, 01:08 PM

It's very tempting to rinse when the hair is just like you described it, MerryKat. But I think the brushing will help you through this. I hope you're feeling well? I had to run nearly a month around with "bad hair" some weeks ago, because I was very much under stress and doesn't felt very well. That things show up instantly in your hair - it's more greasy, limp and just icky, and no brushing, combing or whatever tricks we know here, would help until the health is better again.
So I hope you have had just a bad hair day and it will soon be better again :)

PS: Another trick I came up with for greasy days: When you want to put you hair halfway-nicely looking up to hide the grease, brush it before that, but directly after brushing leave it ca. 5-10 min hanging around your head without touching it. When the hair is very greasy, one would smear the sebum along the head and it would instantly looking oily again, while, when it has time to hang around for some minutes, a great deal of the sebum could be soaked up from the hair and one has more fluff then. Also - when the hair is very greasy - wash your hands before putting it up, so that no overmuch sebum, which might cling on your hand during the brushing process make your hair stringy looking.
After the 5-10 mins you can put it up, but try to do updos which are easy to do and without long messing. The longer you fumble with your hair it would look stringy looking soon again.

Hope that might help.

Rosa.Damascena

March 12th, 2008, 01:17 PM

Ruthietoothie,

I don't know about the water-repelling thing. Of course it would repel more then not-sebumy-hair, but of course you would lost some of the sebum too, depending on how often you go swimming. I don't think it's very bad - I got occassional wet hair too when caught in heavy rain (I hate umbrellas ;) ), and it doesn't had put me backwards very much with NW/SO. Just try and look, how your hair takes it.

And please post the results! :)

PS: In the old thread someone here was often swimming in salt-water during the summertime last year (I don't know who), and it hasn't affected her hair badly, as far as I remember.

Shicurls

March 12th, 2008, 05:50 PM

Hi, I have been looking through this thread (old and new), and I have been wondering for all of the curly and wavy girls, how do you all keep your hair curly? And for the others, do you wear your hair down very often? And for those that are NW and SO for awhile, why go NW? Do you here any negative comments about your hair? I am curious and would like to know. Thank you!:)

ruthietoothie

March 13th, 2008, 07:50 AM

You are right, Rosa, i don't think NW would actually repel water, but maybe it would give some protection, is what I meant. And it's just a theory...I have yet to see the results for myself!

Shicurls...my ordinarily wavy hair is much straighter on NW. But for me it's hard to see what my hair would ordinarily be since I wear it up all the time, and when I take it down, it retains the kinks and waves from the updo it was just in. However, there have been a few times I have worn it down under a hat lately, and my hair formed some ringlets all on it's own...which was pretty cool!

Hairytale

March 13th, 2008, 08:12 AM

No, I don't wear my hair down very often. In fact, I never wear it down as I am participating in the "Hair up for one year" challenge. I think I could wear my hair down sometimes, but perhaps not always. I still have good and bad and just normal hair days, so that would probably work best on my good hair days.

I am NW/SO since four months now so I guess I count as a long-time SO person. The reason I started NW was my scalp. I had a very dry scalp, I was flaking big flakes and a big amount. So I started diluting my shampoo, which got things better only slightly. Then I went WO which was almost okay, but I didn't like my hair going greasy again some days after being washed. So I started NW for the first time. After nine days. I stopped because my hair was too greasy, but - and that is important - I had not found the right routine. But shortly after being WO again, I decided I would give NW a second chance, as I was not quite happy with my hair being caught in the grease cycle (hair gets washed, sebum is gone, sebum comes back, hair gets washed again etc.). After three weeks, I was quite unhappy as my mother said my hair looked greasy, but thanks to Rosa's bun instructions I managed to go on and am happy since.

The benefits from NW/SO for me since then: my shedding almost stopped after some time and my scalp is now really good (and waaaayyyy better than it was during shampoo or WO).
I even had some nice comments about my hair (and besides that negative comment from my mother I had none).
Of course, NW/SO doesn't cost nothing: a BBB is recommendable, but some curlies did not use it as it uncurled their hair, but they were fine without, I think. But even if it costs you no money, it sure costs time, especially during the first weeks.

I hope that answers a few questions!

Greetings,

Hairytale. :flower:

JillieRose

March 13th, 2008, 08:22 AM

Hey everyone! It's good to be back!

So I'm a semi NW person. I rinse very infrequently, mostly when I want my curls for a special occasion.

Then again, our shower has been broken for a month, so showering goes like this:

1. Turn on shower (temp at cold).
2. Wait a bit.
3. Turn temp half way up.
4. Wait a bit more.
5. Turn shower up as hot as it will go.
6. Wait a bit more.
7. When the water goes from 'freezing' to 'lukewarm', leap into the shower.
8. The water will then be 'comfortably hot' for precisely eight seconds. Wash fast.
9. Jump out of the shower before it goes freezing cold again.
10. Towel off. Grumble about the shower being broken.

Then I joined the gym, so I rinsed my hair just for the sheer novelty of a hot shower. But most of the time I'm NW. And I add oil, actually, because my hair gets dry on the ends because of the yucky weather. I rinse when I want my curls back, that's about it.

Shicurls

March 13th, 2008, 11:58 PM

Thank you for your responses, ruthietoothie and Hairytale. I would love to know some more of your guys' routines in managing NW hair. I do wish I could have spent more time reading the archives before the site went down, but such is life! I have started WO, because I have scalp issues. My hair is still hovering around shoulder length, so updos aren't yet a real option. I would love to eventually try NW, so please keep letting me know your positive and negative experiences with this process.:blossom:

MerryKat

March 14th, 2008, 03:12 AM

Hi all, it is great to see so many new faces here.

I have had a tough week with wanting to WO as my hair was feeling blah (heavy and dry) and my scalp was really itchy. However thanks to a recipe for Aloe / Glycerine / Coconut Oil I read about (I think it was girlcat who posted it) it is feeling much better. I have used a tiny amount of this morning and night since Tuesday night (rub over canopy and remainder on hands on ends and then massage front of scalp) and the fuzz on the top has eased and my scalp is way happier. I will have to see if this builds up and go from there.

I wear my hair up M-F to work as it is easier that way and sometimes loose in the evening. Over the weekends it is nearly always loose or in a half up and it looks great. I have had so many compliments on how good it is looking.

The next difficulty I am anticipating is July when we are going to the coast on holiday for 2 weeks. I suspect swimming and salt water will mean I will need to WO and use lots of coconut oil.

Hairytale

March 14th, 2008, 06:47 AM

Do you have suggestions for nice-looking shower caps? Perhaps some you can also wear for swimming, that would perhaps ease the problem of swimming in the summer...

Hairytale

March 16th, 2008, 03:15 AM

Well, I'll revive this thread with following good news: I was able to upload pictures to my photo album! You'll find some updo pics and some of my hair down. Hope you enjoy them!

MerryKat

March 17th, 2008, 04:10 AM

I did a WO with a vinegar rinse and a leave in of Coconut Oil on Saturday night, I just could not cope with my itchy, flakey scalp anymore. My scalp feels soooooo much better.

I am staying NW but I will WO as and when my scalp gets really itchy and flakey - probably about every second month.

I had made 76 days of NW before I just could not take my scalp anymore. I do not regret doing the WO and the difference is amazing.

Hopefully my scalp will eventually settle, but till then I will WO as needed.

ruthietoothie

March 17th, 2008, 07:45 AM

Ok, I am starting to get really nervous about this...I have been NW for 2 months and 2 1/2 weeks. My hair is still a grease pit. I wonder if I eat too fatty of a diet, or if since my hair is so fine, that any amount of oil makes it look greasy, or maybe I don't massage/preen/brush enough (I admit, I get lazy w/ this sometimes, but I at least spend a few minutes massaging, brushing, preening every day...but not for 10+ mins. But even on the days I DO take my time and spend extra time...I don't see any results later) Maybe my hormones are still wacked out due to pregnancy last year and nursing still?

I don't know...all I DO know is that I am *this* close to throwing in the towel and at least rinsing...if not doing a CV shampoo bar wash. I am so tired of greasy hair...it doesn't seem to be getting better. A couple days ago, I ate microwave popcorn, so I know my hair may be worse right now due to that...but beyond that...it is just staying in this stringy, greasy stage and I am loosing my patience with it!

Help me please w/ encouragement/reality check...whatever I need! Maybe NW really just can't work for me for some reason.

My problem is what do I do if NW doesn't work out for me? I have hated my hair on every other washing routine. S&C was too drying, CO leaves my hair extremely coated and lifeless/stringy; WO did a round and round cycle of dry ends/greasy canopy. I am thoroughly confused and feeling very depressed about my hair right now. I will rinse in 5 days if I feel too greasy to attend a very important even...but I feel like even rinsing won't really make a dent in all the grease, and that once my hair dries...it will just be greasier and stringier looking than before...AGGGGHHHHH

frizzinator

March 17th, 2008, 08:54 AM

Do you wear it up everyday?

ruthietoothie

March 17th, 2008, 02:02 PM

Do you wear it up everyday?

Mostly yes. If it's down, it's under a hat. I have tried sleeping a couple of times w/ it down. I did not notice any sort of difference.

ruthietoothie

March 18th, 2008, 07:42 AM

Ok, I caved. I rinsed last night. A nice, long, luxurious rinse:). I could stand it no longer. The result is that I have gorgeous, clean looking hair for the first time in almost 3 months! Now, how long it will stay nice looking is a good question. I will just have to wait and see! I don't know if I will remain NW or not. Time will tell in this great hair experiment of mine! I have no plans at the moment to rinse again, I want to see what my hair does. I may keep going w/ NW for a few more months to see if the transition really ever happens for me. Hopefully one rinse at this stage wouldn't totally set me back to the beginning...but we'll see! Anyhow, at this particular moment...I could even wear my hair down if I wanted to! (I can't, since I am going out in ugly, rainy weather)

i'll keep you all posted!

Rosa.Damascena

March 18th, 2008, 08:10 AM

Hi ruthietoothie,

great you feel happier with your hair now! :flower: As I said, transition is a hard process for some people and a rinse now and then to keep frustration down is quite okay! I don't think it will set you back very much :)

movie zombie

March 18th, 2008, 07:23 PM

ruthie,

this is going to seem strange coming from me [as i threw in the towel 11 days short of 5 months], but i'd like to encourage you to keep going. i don't regret my decision as i went so long and it just didn't work for me. i really do think 4-5 months should give you an idea of whether this is the thing for you or not. starting over is so very hard to do....as the old song already told us! if you give it your very very very best shot, then no regrets if you do stop.

i assume you've used the smaller tooth comb trick already and are massaging your scalp and/or the scritching thing?

movie zombie

ruthietoothie

March 18th, 2008, 10:58 PM

Thank you Rosa and Movie Zombie for the encouragement! i think I will keep going NW for a few more months at least to see if NW will work for me. I REALLY WANT IT TO WORK! But I also cannot be walking around w/ greasy hair for the rest of my life! So, if I don't transition by mid June, I may have to re-think this.

I wore my hair in a high pony tail during the day today, and my hair stayed nice and curly!:cheese: Then this evening, I let it down, thinking I would need to put it back up again, but I actually found that it was gorgeous all on it's own! I just combed it a bit, and went out the door! It felt so nice to have it down...though my dear son found delight in playing/tugging on it!(ow!)

I am very curious as to when it will start to look greasy again...tomorrow? in a few days? next week? I have no idea! (I hope it holds out at least until next week!)

MerryKat

March 20th, 2008, 07:09 AM

Ruthie I am also thoroughly enjoying my happier scalp. My hair is a bit fly away for me, but my scalp feels so much better, I am actually considering doing a honey / EVOO Deep Treatment this weekend and then going back to WO with vinegar rinses and oil pre-treatments and oil leave in.

My hair loves NW but I cannot live with my scalp for more that about 40 days - then it starts to itch and flake and ooze in the most unattractive way. I won't go back to products as my scalp and hair hate it, but I will work between WO and NW.

If you don't mind I will stick around here with you guys and continue to enjoy your company even though I am not truely NW.

Rosa.Damascena

March 20th, 2008, 07:27 AM

I think there is no straight line with a routine. Experience shows, that there are some who could go the straight way, some which had to add some things to make it work or on the other hand some which switch between two or more routines. Important is what is the best of the hair and with which one is happy. :) Even doing NW just for some weeks has a positive effect for the hair I think.

I started last weekend with the article, I wanted to write on NW, and just stumbling over that issue I thought if we could create some spin-off-NW-routines, which mingle with other routines, but have still a part of NW in it, like NW-WO-NW for example :D What about that?

PS: MerryKat, I really like that bun in your siggy pic :flower: Could you describe, how you do it? :)

ruthietoothie

March 20th, 2008, 07:59 AM

MerryKat, we hope you DO stick around here w/ us! Reading your posts is very helpful! You have lots of experience w/ NW, and can really help others!

Rosa...thank you so much for starting on the article! In my opinion, I would think it would be simpler to start w/ the basics of NW only, then towards the end to mention/discuss other options too that are sometimes included. But that is just my 2¢! I know you will do a wonderful job!

Rosa.Damascena

March 20th, 2008, 08:15 AM

Rosa...thank you so much for starting on the article! In my opinion, I would think it would be simpler to start w/ the basics of NW only, then towards the end to mention/discuss other options too that are sometimes included. But that is just my 2¢! I know you will do a wonderful job!

That was my intention :)

ruthietoothie

March 20th, 2008, 09:27 PM

Well, my hair is back to being put up. That didn't last too long. Oh well. It was nice while it lasted! My hair is not very greasy looking, but the length is looking kind of separated. I am glad I rinsed...I really needed the break from the greasies, and to see my hair down again (and not look disgusting). I just need my hair to cooperate for a little more than a week, and then it can be "bad' looking again w/ out me caring too much. But I have 2 important events coming up that I don't want to be worried about how my hair looks for.

Oh, and AF is supposed to start any day, so we will see how that affects my hair too.:eek:

Hairytale

March 21st, 2008, 01:18 AM

Rosa, thanks for your work you put in the article! I'm sure it's gonna be great and informative!

Ruthietoothie, it sounds really nice that your hair looked good for some time! I'm sure you will find some trick to make your hair look good on the special events, whatever that trick will be. :flower:

ETA: What I didn't tell you before, I guess: sometimes my hair is so incredibly soft, it's even better than the softest guinea pig hair! :) That usually happens if I did a lot of massaging and scritching and fingercombing. The next time I massage or brush/fingercomb, my hair is normal again, it just feels like hair. But I seem to be able to recreate this guinea pig hair on a regular basis, which is quite a big deal for me! Yay! :grin: And I also noticed that the amount of bad hair days doesn't really grow...woohoo! :D:

ruthietoothie

March 25th, 2008, 12:30 PM

I am seriously doubting that my hair will ever transition...but I am too stubborn to give up yet. I never want to go through this again, so I am determined (well, trying to STAY determined!) to give this more time.

Right now, my hair is not "terrible" down, but it is by no means presentable. I can't wear it down. At least it's long enough now to all go up w/ out strays poking out, requiring to be clipped w/ barrettes.

But it is super soft!

freznow

March 25th, 2008, 01:30 PM

Honestly, I think our own selves are too critical over what our hair looks like down. Being on LHC does that, and so does certain aspects of our society. But truly, whenever I have worn my hair down, all I've gotten was compliments and "You should wear your hair down more often!" when I thought it was stringy and icky. I also have a picture from a year and a half or so ago from before LHC when I wore my hair down (typically it was in a braid) and honestly it looks worse than it does now, and yet I still got compliments on it.

So, perhaps it was just my friends being 'nice' but I don't think that's it. I think that we are so much harder on ourselves/our hair than we really should be. It may not be as flowing as a pantene commercial, but at least for me that's unachievable. Stringy hair is all I'm good for, and hey if I get compliments on it, all the better!

And my hair is so soft too! When I'm smoothing my updo back sometimes I kinda forget and just keep petting... lol

I hopped on the NW bandwagon the beginning of last autumn. I wonder if I'll be any happier/worse of in summer. Only one way to find out!

freznow

March 25th, 2008, 06:34 PM

Oh darn.

My sister: "You don't wash your hair, do you?" *nope* "I can tell. It's all icky. But not really. Just not clean. Maybe it's because it's so long. You should cut it, and donate it."

Now, this wasn't malicious. Just commentary. But I respect my sister and consider what she says. I'm ignoring the last bit, that's not worth my time. But, still, I wonder. I even wear it up most of the time at home, perhaps she's commenting on the rare time that it is down. And she probably wouldn't even notice if we did not share a bathroom.

All in all, this isn't enough for me to stop NW, but it has got me wondering if I won't WO/'poo bar next time I have an important event. It's also got me wondering if there would be more 'wow' factor like I had on CO, and there was less tangling... Or maybe I would explore waterless methods or misting... I have wanted to order some EOs, but have been broke recently... And I have aloe gel... *ignore ramblings*

Wah and I was feeling so good about my hair this afternoon! How can one comment do that...?

ETA: I realized I have passed my 6 month NW anniversary. Maybe I'm just feeling like I've been on this routine for long enough, and need a change. But a part of me is whispering about how things were 'before' and some of them I think are worth it. Ah I'm going to move to my blog so I don't fill this thread with any more pessimism than I already have.

MerryKat

March 26th, 2008, 06:27 AM

Thanks for all the kind words. I did not end up doing the honey / evoo deep treatment as my hair felt great all weekend.

The NW / WO choice is difficult for me. My hair LOVES NW and the longer I do it the happier it is and the smoother and better behaved the length is - perfect hair. However, my scalp enjoys the odd WO (with vinegar rinse) which gives me fly away hair again.

So I am going to stay NW and up my stritching and massaging every night, and when my scalp is really flakey and itchy I will WO and add coconut oil when wet to try and prevent the fly away aspect - this seems like the best compromise for me.

Rosa - that bun is your bun where your massage your head upside down to get volume and then bun in sections. I just held it with claw clips rather than pins.

freznow - I know what you mean about time for a change and remembering past routines with fondness. That is what has pulled me away from WO/NW over the last year +. However, whenever I go back to products my hair or scalp are unhappy.

ruthie - you need to find the balance that works for you with NW / WO. Perfect NW is maybe not your option but a combination of the two? This is the decision I have reached.

ruthietoothie

March 26th, 2008, 06:52 AM

ruthie - you need to find the balance that works for you with NW / WO. Perfect NW is maybe not your option but a combination of the two? This is the decision I have reached.

Thanks MerryKat. I doubt I'll stay strict NW, but I feel like I have to give it a fair "shot" to work. Which is what is holding me back from experimenting more w/ occasional WO rinses, oilings. After I have done NW for at least 5 months ( I don't feel that my rinse last week really set me back any), then I will be able to determine better whether or not I want to continue strict NW or not. But for now, I feel "stuck". Make sense?

Hairytale

March 26th, 2008, 08:09 AM

ruthie, I think it makes sense! I so do hope the best for your hair and hope you'll find the right routine one day!

MerryKat, that seems like a good plan for the next time!

freznow, I know it's said easier than done (much easier, that is), but: keep your head up and don't let one person make you stop NW! I think your hair looks gorgeous and not greasy at all! :flower:
But I know it is hard to hear a person who is near to you make such comments on your hair (my mother did that when I was NW for three weeks and she almost made me stop). What could perhaps help is some variation in your everyday routine. For me, it is very important to do lots of fingercombing and massaging/scritching. I do that every day and it makes my hair look and feel like the softest guinea pig hair on earth, maybe it works for your hair as well? :shrug:
But I also wanted to mention it is not a bad thing to give your hair an occasional mist before important events where you just have to look good. Perhaps you then could just mist instead of giving it a whole WO rinse, that would certainly make a difference but would not set you back so much. :shrug:

Hope you're all getting along with your hair and scalps! :rolleyes:

(My hair is at a very annoying length atm: the old updos don't look good anymore and new ones don't really work yet. Great. :rolleyes: My layers are another issue...)

:flower: to you all!

movie zombie

March 26th, 2008, 08:30 AM

ruthie,

i hated when i had bad hair separation days..........perhaps that's just another stage to get through? if so, it was too much for me as my separations looked like bald parts because my hair is really straight and fine. sounds to me like you might be able to get past this stage and actually be able to wear your hair down as you want....not all the time but periodically. i know you said you're going to give it until june: congrats for all the time you've given it!

movie zombie

ruthietoothie

March 26th, 2008, 02:50 PM

movie zombie

March 27th, 2008, 10:20 AM

ruthie,

i'm quite a bit older than you and i was also having a LOT of hair loss for some reason which i attributed to all the combing/brushing/scritching/etc. required when i went SO. this really didn't happen though until i'd been doing SO only for some time. could have been conscidence though. since you only want to wear your hair down periodically and since you are so much younger than me, i'm thinking that your hair will come through this.

movie zombie

ruthietoothie

March 27th, 2008, 01:57 PM

Crunchy Girl

March 30th, 2008, 10:07 PM

MerryKat

April 1st, 2008, 05:59 AM

I am investigating Scalp washes (more rinses with diluted vinegar in my case) to enable me to keep the happy NW hair and let my scalp have the attention it desires.

ruthietoothie

April 1st, 2008, 08:08 AM

Ruth,
I started going WO almost 2 years ago, and at the time I was still nursing and had several other hormonal imbalances. I took almost 9 months to or something (bad memory) to transition to a place of being able to not look greasy after a wash and it would still only last a few days before needing another rinse. This all went away when I got an Aquasana shower filter which somehow brought back the greasiness again and I have yet to be able to wash out the sebum with water only from that shower. For the past couple of years I've continued to try to complete the transition but have caved and done shampoos or co washes out of frustration with the sebum overflow but over all have continued to try to transition. I'm now excited to read this new thread about NW/SO and am going to try that and see if this will be the final thing that might make the sebum stop! I'm no longer nursing and have balanced out my hormones, so I'm hoping that will all make a difference.

There is really no advice here, just wanted to let you know that your not alone and maybe it's the hormones that won't let the sebum settle?

Hugs,
Christina

Welcome to N/W, Christina! It's nice to have you here! I am hoping the sebum stops for me too. I *thought* I had a *breakthrough* day a couple of nights ago...I took my hair down from it's updo at night before bed, and it didn't look too greasy. But the moment I started "fussing" w/ it...fingercombing, ect...it got oily looking again. Oh, who knows what my hair is doing! I think I need to officially clean my BBB too. I clean it "dry" each time I use it, but my hair is always super greasy after brushing w/ it. It must need a better cleaning. It's been 3 months for me on NW now, with just one rinse, 2 spritzes, and the rest "hard core" NW!

Ok, gotta run, but just wanted to update you all! And it's nice to have you here, Christina (someone who can understand the hormone issues from childbirth and nursing!)

MerryKat

April 3rd, 2008, 02:44 AM

My scalp was in a terrible state yesterday - I am coming to the conclusion I either have Seborrheic Dermatitis or Psoriasis - red, itchy, inflamed, flakey right round the hair line and about an inch into the hair.

Last night I did a scalp wash with honey and vinegar. Put my hair in a loose pony tail - bagged the pony tail and tied with a tight elastic. Mixed 2 teaspoons of honey in a mug with 1/2 cup warm water, topped the mug up with white vinegar. I added this mixture to a jug of warm water. I slowly poured 1/2 this mixture over the scalp and then massaged the scalp before pouring the rest of the mixture over. I let this sit for about 10 min and then rinsed with 2 jugs of cool water.

My hair did not get wet and my scalp felt instantly soothed. I patted the scalp hair dry for about 5 min with a towel and then took the plasic bag off and bunned my hair into it's customary scrunchie bun for the night.

My scalp was still a damp this morning under the bun and my length got a little damp in places - no more than a misting - and the whole shebang feels great.

My scalp is no longer red and flaking and the itch has nearly all gone.

At this moment this seems like the best option for me. My hair is NW but my scalp is honey & vinegar rinses.

Gothic Lolita

April 3rd, 2008, 11:24 AM

ruthietoothie

April 3rd, 2008, 01:09 PM

I'm sorry to just drop in an post, although I'm no N/W member, but I always read this thread, because I findi t very interesting (but not an option for me). I always wondered what you do in summer, when you maybe want to swim or when you get into rain accidentaly without an umbrella. Is this a realy problem for you? Can't you go swimming?

Hi! I think the general idea is to try to use a swim cap if going swimming. I plan to just to rinse WO after swimming...I don't do much swimming anyway. Just an occasional rain on the hair shouldn't set anything back. I think that is the thoughts around here, right?

freznow

April 3rd, 2008, 01:12 PM

Yeah, there's really no point in trying to avoid rain/swimming, otherwise the carefree routine that this is wouldn't be much worth it, IMO. Someone who does a lot of swimming may find it easier to just go WO in the summer, but it's not like a little bit of water here and there completely breaks the routine.

Gothic Lolita

April 7th, 2008, 06:23 AM

Well, thanks for the answers. I was always under the impression that it would throw you back if you went swimming. Now I'm a bit cleverer!

Hairytale

April 7th, 2008, 06:52 AM

Well, ladies (and gentlemen?!), I have something positive to report.
My hair was really misbehaving during the last weeks, updos didn't work properly and so on. But now I discovered some bun which actually is a kind of a hybrid between a log roll and an orchid bun. It works great and I only need two U-shaped metal forks/pins to secure it! Yay! :flower:

Although concerning the everlasting topic of greasy-ness I am rather average. I had had better hair days and somehow they won't be as often as I'd like them to do. Somehow I miss pampering my hair and not having to be afraid it looks greasy because I'd wash it sooner or later anyway.
Then again I think it's great not having to use water or other products, I really like the thought of independence (I can keep up my routine no matter where I am).
I still can't decide if it is better to be caught in the cycle of grease (that means washing my hair and letting it become greasy again, then washing it againetc.) or to have overall slightly greasier hair but with smaller amplitudes of greasy-ness.

Any help out there, fellows? :(

(It is really interesting what NW/SO not only does to your body/hair, but which psychological effect it has on people...)

frizzinator

April 7th, 2008, 02:01 PM

I've not used water or anything else on my hair for 7 months. Whenever I don't like the way my hair looks and I start thinking about alternatives, I scritch, massage and preen. The result is that my hair will look better.

Here is a photo I took today. I scritched and preened for 2 hours last night while reading the shampoo bar thread, and the result is that my hair looks better than it did yesterday and I'm no longer thinking of doing anything different. I usually spend much less than half that much time with my fingers on my scalp and hair, but when it looks bad, investing more time in scritching, massage and preening makes a big difference.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee178/frizzliz/4708029.jpg

MerryKat

April 8th, 2008, 01:23 AM

Frizzinator congrats on 7 months on NW. Do you not find your scalp gets flakey and itchy after a few months? If so, what has worked for you to resolve that?

I jumped yesterday!

My trial with the honey & vinegar scalp wash left my scalp happy and my hair yuck and no amount of preening seemed to help. By last night my hair was horrid and I could not take it any more. I did a CWC and I am loving how soft and silky my hair feels today, but it is all fuzzy and fly away again (not in a bad way, but just not the smooth silky hair I had on extended WO & NW).

I think I am going to look at going back to good old WO for a while and see where that takes me. I know I can do NW for 2 to 3 months and I may well get back there again.

My problem is I love how my hair looks on NW but I don't seem to be able to keep my scalp happy over an extended period. I also miss my wurls (I am 2c when I wash regularly and about a 1c with NW).

I have clean hair with a little coconut oil in at the moment and I am just going to see where I end up - most probably back to NW as I am lazy and really don't enjoy the feeling of wet hair.

frizzinator

April 8th, 2008, 01:58 AM

My scalp never itched. Maybe my lack of scalp problems is because I scritch and massage everyday. If I see flakes when I'm scritching, I will brush my hair. A stiff bbb will scrape off the flakes.

MerryKat

April 8th, 2008, 02:33 AM

Thanks Fizzinator, I find that BBB causes breakage for my hair, but I must have a go at upping my scritching, massaging and preening.

Nat242

April 8th, 2008, 05:53 AM

ruthietoothie

April 9th, 2008, 03:05 PM

I am *this* close to calling it quits on NW. I don't think it's going to work for me. It's been a little over 3 months and still no sign of even remotely not-gross looking hair down. I admit I don't take the time to massage/scritch/preen like I should, so perhaps that is affecting my results, but maybe it's not that...maybe it's just my hair, or my diet, or my still-nursing hormones.

I hate my hair. I am practically in tears that this isn't working for me, 'cause I don't want to go back to any other hair care routine, but on the other hand, I am practically in tears b/c my hair is so horrid looking.

is it too much to ask for to get nice looking hair?

Last night, I spent a full 10 mins scritching/massaging/preening, and I see NO improvement at all today.

HELP!!!!

MerryKat

April 10th, 2008, 01:14 AM

Ruthie - try keeping up with the scritching and massage for a good few days (and if you can twice a day) and you may see a difference.

I am happy after my wash, but I definitely prefer my NW hair (even though I miss my 2c wurls - they only last a day and I am not prepared to wash daily - day 2 hair is scary!), so I am going back to NW where my hair is consistantly good even if my scalp is a pain.

My aim this time is to scritch, massage and preen twice a day - longer in the evening than in the morning. If I am really honest the times that this has worked I have been following the S/M/P routine twice daily - when I let that slip is when my scalp gets miserable (which makes me miserable and leads to me giving up).

movie zombie

April 10th, 2008, 08:27 PM

Frizz, your hair is absolute gorgeous!!!!!!!

Ruthie, see if you can make it to 4 months....then make the call. you will know you have given it a really good try.

i don't regret throwing it as i was just short of 5 months.......now i wash once a week or every 14 days. no big.

movie zombie

Hairytale

April 11th, 2008, 02:04 AM

I found out that scritching and massaging and preening for half an hour seems to do the trick for me. But somehow I can't get rid of the smell my hair has. It's a sebumy smell. It#S not very bad, but not very nice either.
So I had the idea to try EOs (one drop on my hands and then run them through my hair). Did anyone try that before? What were the results? Are EOs recommendable for getting rid of the smell or not? :flower: Thanks in advance and good luck with NW to all of you!

ruthietoothie

April 11th, 2008, 08:11 AM

Movie Zombie, I would be happy if I only had to rinse every 14 days. But after rinsing last month, my hair got greasy again in only 2-3 days.

HairyTale, I know what you mean about the "sebum" smell. I have it too, and I don't like it. It's pretty strong too, I think. I would LOVE to find a way to get rid of it, but I don't know if I really can. I'm interested to see what you find though!

Question: How in the world do you all find the patience to scritch/preen/massage for 30 mins? I can barely get myself to do it for 10 minutes a day. I still don't see much of a difference though. my hair is not as long as all of yours is though...it's only just past my shoulders. Could that be making it look worse, since there isn't as much length to spread the sebum out on?

I have decided to try really hard to do the scritching/massaging/preening for longer lengths of time, and try to stick this out until the end of May. Maybe the fact that my hair is "fine" is making a difference too. Like I said in a pp, the slightest bit of excess oil, and my hair looks like an oil slick. So, perhaps it will just take longer for my hair to adjust than others. As long as I can pull it back and not feel self-conscious about it, I may make my goal of getting to the end of May. But we will see. I'll keep you all posted.

I really appreciate all your help and encouragement...I don't think I would have made it this far w/ out it! THank you so much!:)

Hairytale

April 11th, 2008, 12:46 PM

Well, if I have enough time (usually in the evening) and feel like pampering my hair, I take the time and scritch/massage/preen/etc. for 30 minutes or something around that. After 10-15 minutes, I see first results, e.g. some part of my hair being fluffy to touch and look at. That gives me the motivation to treat the rest of my hair the same way.

Some point concerning EOs: I read they are irritating your skin if you don't dilute them. Is that true? Because if it is, I had to dissolve them in other oils like almond oil or something similar and that would certainly make my hair greasy! :knuckle:

freznow, didn't you experiment with EOs? *tries to remember*

freznow

April 11th, 2008, 07:13 PM

Well, I preened/scritched yesterday and my scalp is now immensely better than it was prior to that (I even wore my hair down! No compliments, but hey I wore it down because it felt good to have it down and it was actually behaving, not to stun people in math class, so whatever; I thought it looked good!) Btw, I preen/scritch while at the computer reading LHC with my left hand, using my right hand to surf and stuff. But I'm forgetful and lazy, and end up doing this not more than once or twice a week thoroughly, which may not be good for my scalp... But it doesn't seem to mind.

Hairytale, for most EOs, they can't be applied neat (non diluted). Some like lavender are typically okay. I oil my length still, because my hair is so dry, but I don't know how it'd work on the scalp/if you put on so much it traveled up to the scalp. I know jessie58 uses EOs with oil nightly on a stretched out WO schedule, so I imagine it really depends on your hair/scalp/mixture of oils. You can also dilute with water and either dip your fingers in that or mist. I hear that rosewater with a little bit of lavender smells like a fresh rain :)

(Btw: to clear up confusion, I haven't done EOs on my current routine, because I'm too poor atm to buy some, but I've extensively read the EO thread... so some things may work better in theory than real life)

Right now I'm finding the hardest thing to avoid is getting my hair all wet to cool me off! I swear it's 85 degrees out at night right now. I guess I'll just have to find another way to keep cool.

ruthietoothie

April 11th, 2008, 11:35 PM

Well, if I have enough time (usually in the evening) and feel like pampering my hair, I take the time and scritch/massage/preen/etc. for 30 minutes or something around that. After 10-15 minutes, I see first results, e.g. some part of my hair being fluffy to touch and look at. That gives me the motivation to treat the rest of my hair the same way.

S

You ACTUALLY SEE IMPROVEMENT?!!!!!! I am SO jeaous!!! I could scritch/massage/preen for an hour and I don't think I'd see any improvement!

maybe I'm doing it wrong. I could really use a video of someone scritching/massaging/preening. Anyone willing? :pray:

movie zombie

April 12th, 2008, 04:43 PM

ruthietoothie

April 12th, 2008, 06:07 PM

ruthie, maybe the rinse a month ago set you back........going to have to retransition a particular transition?

i think the video idea is great!!!!!!!

but preening for an hour each day?! yikes........

ruthie, hang in there!

movie zombie

Oh, no, I don't actually spend an hour each day preening! (I have 3 young kids!) I just meant that even IF I spent that much time, I don't think I'd actually see improvement...

movie zombie

April 13th, 2008, 08:24 AM

i knew you didn't.......i meant i just can't imagine it and i don't have 3 young kids!

i didn't mention this before but i had also developed bumps on my head......all over, rather large and they were starting to get sore.....and it seemed the longer i was on SO, the worse it was getting. all gone now........ it was another reason i decided to stop SO.

movie zombie

silly9filly

April 13th, 2008, 04:53 PM

Im a newbie here. Could anyone tell me what the advantages of SO are versus WO?

frizzinator

April 13th, 2008, 06:32 PM

WO = Water Only .....using only water to clean scalp and hair.

NW = No Water .....not using water or shampoo or conditioner to clean scalp and hair; however, some folks might use oil.

SO = Sebum Only ....not using water or anything on scalp and hair. Nothing but fingers, comb and brush are used.

Silly9filly, there are a variety of reasons to give up using water to clean hair. My problem was age-related frizzy hair. I tried many cleaning methods in an effort to get back the smooth hair I had before I became middle-aged. I've been trying to eliminate my frizzy hair for 6 years.

Last July and August I tried WO. It helped smooth my hair a little, but not 100%. Then I started the SO method and it has nearly eliminated my frizzy hair. Here is a photo of my hair one year ago.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee178/frizzliz/10408009.jpg

Here are photos of my hair taken during the past 4 months. I've been SO for 7 months. I'm happier with the way my hair looks with SO than I was with WO.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/album.php?albumid=311

ruthietoothie

April 13th, 2008, 06:44 PM

I'm still here, yucky hair and all. I didn't preen for long yesterday, but even after I preen, I don't see any change. I am really tired of walking around w/ greasy hair. I really don't have patience for it when my hair looks oily even when pulled back. I'm waiting it out a few more days to see how my hair behaves, but I'm quickly losing patience waiting for "light at the end of the tunnel". I just don't know how much more I can take. i so badly want it to work for me, but I really am doubting that it will EVER work for me. I don't have any problems w/ my scalp, it's just the greasies are getting to me. I know you all are tired of my constant complaining on the subject, so I won't continue on the subject any more!

frizzinator

April 13th, 2008, 07:19 PM

RuthieToothie, it takes a long time to get hair to look like you want it to look. Please continue to say what you feel. If you don't get a response, it's no big deal ....we might not know how to respond, but your experience is valuable and should be shared.

ruthietoothie

April 13th, 2008, 07:36 PM

MerryKat

April 14th, 2008, 05:15 AM

Ruthie, you and I need to share. My hair is great but my scalp goes really funky after a couple of months and your scalp is fine and your hair is not.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))) ))))))))

Complain as much as you want, that is what we are here for.

I have been a bit slack with my scritching this weekend due to a sick child, and I can definitely feel that my scalp is irritable again. I will do a good scritch to night.

Ruthie what do you use to scritch? I find if I scritch with a comb I end up with sore bits and the itch does not go away. However if I scritch with my nails I seem to lift the dead skin more effectively and when I am finished my scalp tingles but does not itch.

At night before my bath I often scritch upside down - I sit on the side of the bath & flick my head over and scritch all round, massage, preen through, scritch, massage, preen through and continue for about 10 minutes. I then scrunchie bun for sleeping

In the morning when I take my bun out, I scritch upright and massage for about 2 min then detangle with my fingers (which spreads some sebum through the length), use my rake to detangle furhter and then my Denman D9 before doing my updo for the day.

ruthietoothie

April 14th, 2008, 07:13 AM

thanks MerryKat!

I scritch w/ my nails. I try to do it in the evening upside down for about 10 mins. (might be shorter than that sometimes though) I massage/preen, finger comb, and usually brush w/ a BBB, and sometimes use a wide-toothed horn comb. I twist up into a scrunchi bun for sleeping. In the morning, I let my hair down, finger comb or use a comb, scritch again for a couple moments, inspect my hair in hopes of seeing improvement (always so far to be dissappointed:(), then put it up for the day.

This morning, my hair looked a bit fluffy as I let it down and finger combed it, though it was still greasy and clumpy. (sounds like an oxymoron.. fluffy but greasy. But that is exactly what my hair does) I combed it w/ a horn comb, and it lost all fluff completely, and just looked greasy. I then put it up in a clip.

I was trying a while ago to see how my hair would react to ONLY fingercombing, but that didn't produce good results either. Really, my hair is just greasy no matter what. If my hair will actually transition, then all of this is worth it, but I just am unsure it really will EVER transition. I don't mind having "bad hair days" after transitioning...I would just appreciate having a few "Good hair days" too!

I have tried capturing how my hair looks on camera, but it's hard to capture. I'll try again though. Then you can all see what I am talking about...

Kazazi

April 14th, 2008, 07:41 AM

wow, that's an amazing difference, frizzinator. your hair looks beautiful. so are there official instructions for this method somewhere? not likely to try it soon myself, but i am certainly curious. how long does it take for hair to look and feel nice again if you don't wash it?

Hairytale

April 14th, 2008, 08:06 AM

ruthietoothie, I can only second what frizzinator said! I am really sorry if you felt like we let you alone! :-(

I have the assumption that my hair also reacts to my mental situation. Yesterday I was seriously considering stopping SO but somehow thought "ah well, I might as well continue, m hair will look greasy on some days no matter which routine I pick", but when I woke up this morning my hair felt good and fluffy and I was asked if I freshly washed my ahir because it looked so nice and fluffy - I totally didn't see that come!
And that in a situation where I expected it least! So I don't know if you made that experience, too, but perhaps thinking "I don't care anymore if this works or not" helps? :shrug:

Kazazi, Rosa.Damascena is planning to write an article about NW/SO, but as for now, there are no "official" instructions. Everyone has a different routine of brushing/(finger-)combing/scritching/preening etc. (but those elements are the main ones) and as everyone's hair and scalp is different, it is hard to say if you hair will look greasy on the beginning of NW or not and of, for how long. :shrug:

movie zombie

April 15th, 2008, 11:39 AM

ruthie,

remember: one day at a time.

i do agree that one should be enjoying their own hair and if you're not then, well,........

but if once each day you find something that you're enjoying about your hair, liking it up, the way an updo turned out, the ease of putting it up, something very simple, maybe you'll be able to continue? it so easy to only see the negative.

movie zombie

ruthietoothie

April 15th, 2008, 01:13 PM

Thanks for all the replies...I in NO WAY feel like you guys haven't been "there" for me! You all have been so helpful this whole time! Thank you so much! I just feel bad about complaining all the time about my hair!

Hairytale, it is fluffy sometimes, but still greasy. I know that doesn't make sense, yet, it is what my hair does. I could not leave it down out in public. At all. Now, hats don't even help, b/c my hair is getting longer and the length looks bad (clumpy, greasy). So, I wear it up every day. Unfortunately, I have alot of new hairs growing in on the sides of my head and in the back, so they stick out all frizzy when I put the hair back. I am not happy about it. I feel very self-conscious about my hair overall, b/c I feel like it looks greasy even when pulled back. It FEELS soft, but looks dreadful. I am continuing w/ it because I don't feel like deciding what else to do, (plus I keep hoping by some "miracle", that my hair will transition and give me glowing, lovely hair that I can wear any way I want to.)

WritingMum

April 15th, 2008, 09:14 PM

Don't know if this would help with SO but it helped with WO that was feeling waxy: wiping the length, from scalp to ends, 100 times with a clean dry washcloth. The original recommendation was to use a white cloth, but light ones have worked well. The cloth got dirty looking, but the waxy quality disappeared.

ruthietoothie

April 16th, 2008, 12:00 AM

MerryKat

April 16th, 2008, 01:22 AM

My scalp is starting to flake again - it is the 1cm strip at the hairline and it looks bad. It is not itchy or sore, but it looks yuck. I don't think it is psorisis or dermatitis as until I start scratching to remove the flakes it is not really itchy or sore.

I have been scritching and massaging and I am really begining to think that I have a lack of sebum. I have very dry, sensitive skin and I suspect my scalp is the same.

I want to try SO but I think I will need to add a little coconut oil to my scalp as I do not produce enough sebum to moisturise my scalp and coat my length.

I did the CWC 8 days ago and you would never guess - my length is still fuzzy and flyaway after brushing. Compared to my friends hair, it looks like day 2 /3 hair, so I am even more convinced that I don't produce much sebum.

I will massage a little coconut oil into my scalp tonight during my scritch / massage / preen and it will eventually work its way down the length.

Ruthie, I really wish we could share sebum as I could definitely do with some.

Hairytale

April 16th, 2008, 01:54 AM

MerryKat, I feel with you. Before going SO, I had the most dry scalp on earth and nothing seemed to help. Fortunately, it got better with SO, but now I still have to remove tiny flakes everytime I massage/scritch/preen/brush although I don't think I'm lacking sebum because my hair is still very sebumy at the back of my head (the point where a parting would end).
But don't feel too bad about being "just" NW and not SO. Perhaps your sebum production is going to regulate further, at least for me after more than 5 months SO, I still am experiencing sebum production in- and decreasing.

Ruthietoothie, did you try the washcloth thing? Did it help you?

To all other NW/SOers: keep g(r)o(w)ing! :cheese:

ruthietoothie

April 16th, 2008, 07:10 AM

Ruthietoothie, did you try the washcloth thing? Did it help you?

Yes, I tried it last night. I think it helped a little, but my hair is still too oily to wear down. But I think it may have helped a tiny bit. I'll keep trying.

MerryKat, Thanks so much for your kindness! I wish I could bottle up my sebum and send it to you! ha-ha! I still have way too much. But I am going to ride this out a bit further and hope for better results soon!

ruthietoothie

April 16th, 2008, 08:28 AM

OK, I took some pics this morning. My hair has been only finger combed so far when these had been taken. Tell me what you think...honestly...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2308/2418904334_cbfe6c57bc_m.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2387/2418069789_a5062ae17a_m.jpg

The side/back of my head...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3044/2418885490_2164b688b3_m.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3197/2418065869_1ab16ecc9e_m.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2072/2418884398_325bd69c9c_m.jpg

Hopefully these show how horrid looking my hair is...

Deborah

April 16th, 2008, 09:16 AM

ruthietoothie

April 16th, 2008, 10:29 AM

Here is something you wrote yesterday:

"Unfortunately, I have a lot of new hairs growing in on the sides of my head and in the back, so they stick out all frizzy when I put the hair back. I am not happy about it." (The underlining is mine.)

I think it is fortunate indeed that you have 'new hairs growing in.' This is a wonderful thing!

I could be wrong, but maybe you have these new hairs because of the NW. If so, this could be a great motivator for you to continue, rather than to quit NW.

Just something to consider. :flower:

I agree that new hair is usually something to rejoice in, but when I am forced to wear my hair up and the new hairs stick out by my ears making me look like an elf...I get a little self-conscious!

THank you for the encouragement! All of it is helping me, believe me!!!

frizzinator

April 16th, 2008, 11:08 AM

Preening is the thing that calms down my little hairs. After scritching and massaging, I preen those little hairs with my sebumy fingers, and the frizz disappears.

Hairytale

April 16th, 2008, 11:50 AM

Ruthietoothie, I can't deny your hair looks greasy, especially at the side/back of your head. But I really have to say your hair looks a lot better than I expected! Certainly it's not the shining glory of cleanliness, but I think you can be proud of your hair and you should keep going! :flower:

ruthietoothie

April 16th, 2008, 12:29 PM

So is the greasiness I am experiencing considered "normal" for hair that is in the process of transitioning?

frizzinator

April 16th, 2008, 01:05 PM

Everybody experiences a different transition.

Forgive me for sounding like a broken record, but it is extremely helpful to wear the hair up everyday, and avoid looking in the mirror except for when you make the updo. Transitioning is not forever, but looking at it will try your patience for a long time; it may be impossible to fully transition without learning how to forget about how your hair looks.

I wear my hair up everyday not only because it doesn't look good down, but also because my fine hair breaks at every opportunity, and wearing it up is protective plus the sebum helps you create the perfect updo.

ruthietoothie

April 16th, 2008, 01:20 PM

I agree, wearing the hair up and forgetting about it helps to get through it. I can do that. When I am home, I couldn't care less what my hair looks like (and I am home most often). It's when I go out (I go out frequently, and in situations where unkempt looks are not prefered). That's when I get self-conscious. I couldn't care less if my kids see my greasies! Or even my DH....

freznow

April 16th, 2008, 06:25 PM

Hey, question for all y'all!

I've been accepted into a 3 week residential academic camp this summer. That'll be 3 weeks with at least one roommate, in a setting where I will be doing who knows what, probably lots of outdoor activities and possibly sitting in some hot, stuffy rooms. What would you do, hair wise? Keep going NW, change to WO, bring a bottle of conditioner 'just in case'? I don't really want to worry about scritching/etc., so I'll probably go WO at least, and I also don't want to worry about being a greasy mess, so idk...

WritingPrincess

April 16th, 2008, 07:19 PM

Ruthietoothie, I think your hair looks fine! It looks like mine after a light oiling, and I like it.

MerryKat

April 17th, 2008, 03:30 AM

Hairytale - thanks for the encouragement. I used a little coconut oil last night and it all looks better today. I still have a few flakes but not as many. Did you find your scalp got worse (much itchier & loads of flakes) before it settled down to a few flakes?

Ruthie - there is no denying your hair is sebumy but it is no where nearly as bad as you have told us. If the wash cloth helped a little then maybe add it into your daily routine. I wonder as you have plenty sebum production if you should stop massaging and only scritch as needed to prevent over stimulating your scalp? Just preen to pull the existing sebum to the length and rub with the cloth.

Freznow - I would be prepared to WO and take a small bottle of conditioner incase you need to wash something out of your hair that WO can't handle. This is what I do when I go to the coast on holiday and most of the time the WO handles everything, but once I needed to CO.

ruthietoothie

April 17th, 2008, 07:23 AM

Thank you for not thinking it is *terrible*! (though I still can't wear it down at this point.) I am really trying to make it to 5 months. If my hair still looks like this then, I will probably go back to WO. It's just not something I can live w/ long term.

MerryKat, thanks for the suggestion...I"ll try not scritching as much.

Last night (right before bed) I felt like my hair was actually kind of OK, even down! It was amazing! So, maybe there really IS hope for me that SO will work for me! This morning it again showed a tiny bit of hope. (still not good enough to wear down, but a bit better)

So, I am still here, and I will be for a while longer at least! Thanks again for all the encouragement! I am trying to take this one day at a time and not look at my hair!:D

movie zombie

April 18th, 2008, 10:58 PM

ruthie, i think we have the same hair type......

i want to encourage you to make it to 5 months or as close to it as you can. i think you'll know then if you want to continue or not. one thing that helped me was to do my major grooming routine at night and only comb my hair out in the morning. worked for a while. or grooming it several hours before i was to go somewhere, then tilt my head down and comb my hair towards the floor, flip it back as i stood upright again. it seemed my hair would be acceptable. i will admit that in a few hours it didn't look that great to me but by that time i was so busy with my activities, it didn't matter too much.

have a good weekend, ruthie! may the SO power be with you!

movie zombie

pepperedmoth

April 19th, 2008, 08:46 AM

I've looked and looked, but haven't found one!

I'd love some Water Only support. I stopped using all commercial products on my hair on April 1, mostly because my hair is dry as dry can be, but also because I'm cheap and eco-conscious. In the past I'd tried a baking soda/apple cider vinegar routine (disastrous), and also Conditioner Only (no success- just dry and FLAT hair).

So far this is my routine: hop in the shower (I like HOT showers), rinse out my hair under the water while massaging my scalp a little to dissolve the oils, then perhaps pour another rinse over it all before I hop out again. So far I've tried green tea, an infusion of rosemary, and now I'd like to to try apple cider vinegar (my water is pretty hard, and I think the vinegar might help my hair).

Anyone else? What do you do? General advice?

freznow

April 19th, 2008, 09:03 AM

I thought I'd tell you all that I rinsed last night.

I was curious; I didn't want to have to need a rinse one day and have it turn out badly, and so it was more of an experiment than anything. My hair looks pretty much the same as before hand, though it does feel a bit less greasy.

So yeah, I'll probably be NW again for the 2 months until camp. I wonder if I'll have to go through the transition again...

jessie58

April 19th, 2008, 09:10 AM

Let me see what I can dig up for you. I love WO. My hair does very well with it.

I shall return.

jessie58

April 19th, 2008, 09:16 AM

Here is a summary of the original thread written by the lovely Birchbark: It also contains a link in the very first line to the original Water Only thread.

Water Only Washing Method

I’m just summarizing the info in the hulking monster of the WO thread (http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=19345) because I don’t want to have to read it all again, and apparently nobody else does either. This is composed of my random scribbled notes, so I unfortunately have not credited any of the advice. Please PM me if you would like me to credit your contribution, or if you have more information. I’ll be (hopefully) editing this periodically if anybody discovers something helpful.

Water only (WO) is the method of using only water to wash your hair, with the goal of coating your entire length of hair with naturally produced sebum. This was inspired by this article (http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13291687,00.html) about a woman who has not washed her hair for 11 years.

There are many reasons people choose to go WO: a successful transition into WO can produce healthy, shiny hair without dependence on commercial products and those with dry or irritated scalps can find WO beneficial. Each person’s method will depend on their goals for the WO routine. Those whose quest is virgin hair will prefer hardcore WO, those trying to calm an irritated scalp may use products on their length and do WO only on their scalp, people trying to reduce their dependence on commercial products may use ACV/herb rinses, egg washes or similar methods, and some use WO methods to simply decrease the necessity of frequent washings. This method varies greatly from person to person and it is hard to predict how any one scalp will react, so you must choose what works best with your particular hair (by trial and error) and with your goals for your hair. Doing something other than hardcore WO is not “cheating,” it is discovering what will help you achieve what you want from your hair.

Both curlies and straight-hairs have had success with this method. Since most people experience some time with noticeably oily hair, it is convenient when hair is long enough to put up to hide the greasies. Similarly, bangs can be hard to deal with, but shorter hair can always be covered with a scarf, and not everyone experiences a bad transition period. Those switching from infrequent COing or similar routines are likelier to have an easier transition.

The most important part of WO is to move the excess sebum the scalp produces down the length to coat the entire hair shaft. It is also important to massage or scritch the scalp to remove dead skin cells. Use your fingers to preen, or move the oil from roots to end, as well as scalp massage to deal with buildup, plus it feels good and increases growth. Snowy’s Massage Technique (http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=15976) is a good way of doing this. A boar bristle brush can help if your hair is good with the brushing. Some people like wood or horn combs to move down the sebum as well as using the fine combs for scritching. Remember to clean your brushes and combs frequently, since they are cleaning your hair now that you are no longer using shampoo. Q-tips are good for combs, and old toothbrushes for brushes.

WO rinses can cut the greasiness and help move sebum from the roots to ends. After a few pages of discussion, people seemed to agree on a washing temperature sequence of cool-warm-cool, with a lot of massaging to move down the sebum. Not much benefit was seen in a final icy cold rinse except for shocking you awake. Especially in the beginning, your hair may feel like a big block of wax when wet. You may be able to detangle under the running water, but many people find it easier to wait until it is dry. Oiling the ends before washing can help with detangling, as well as dry ends. (If you play with your hair a lot, it’s best to do this right before washing to prevent you from putting more oil on your scalp hair. Trust me.)

The most common pattern is greasiness in the beginning, then a period where the scalp calms down. Many people hit the worst hair problems at the 5th or 6th week, and then find it smooth sailing after that. The original challenge was to do WO for one month, but it appears six or eight weeks is needed to find out if WO will work for you. Some long-time WOers have moved to no water (NW) instead, as once the transition period is over they find that wetting down the hair is not necessary very often.

Upon hearing about WO, most people are worried that they would look and smell like a nasty person who, well, doesn’t wash their hair. Although most people have noticed their scalp smelling “different,” it’s not stinky. Some have compared it to a cat’s fur. It’s comforting to ask a close friend or family member to reassure you that you don’t smell like a dirty nasty oil slick, or some posters put EOs in their spray bottle, but that’s really not something to worry too much about. As for looking like an otter in an oilslick (aka the O/O stage), updos are good. Scarves and hats are better. More frequent rinses can help, my favorite trick is after you’ve put up your hair, spritzing it with water and smoothing it down. This spreads the oil and makes it look more like product than sebum. If you find your transition too harsh, go more slowly. Gradually dilute your shampoo, stretch out the time between washings, do WO every other wash, or that sort of thing. The transition will take longer this way, but you’re less likely to spend it as a total greaseball.

Many people have experienced a waxy yuckiness in their hair in the first or second week that comes off on the comb and looks and feels nasty. A dilute ACV rinse has been reported to help, and one poster reported good results after a scalp massage with some oil, apparently the oil can dissolve the wax and can then be combed out. Naturally, you should take care to not use too much oil.

Other potential issues:
Henna/dye: Henna has been reported to be hard to wash out, and your hair will hold the henna smell when wet for some time. One poster reported her dye not taking as well on her hair after WO—perhaps the sebum prevented some dye uptake?
Dry/damaged ends: Coconut oil, shea butter and aloe vera gel can help. Oiling the ends just before washing can help keep the oil from spreading back up to the scalp during normal combing and brushing.
Swimming: A thorough soaking in water before swimming seems to be sufficient for most people. Swim caps are recommended. Oiling the ends can’t hurt.
Hard water: Try a final rinse with distilled water first, then ACV rinses or a shower filter.

If this sounds interesting, give WO a try! It’s fun!

frizzinator

April 19th, 2008, 09:24 AM

Freznow, I've been thinking about your camp question, and I think I remembered that you use oil once in a while ....it seems to me that oil would remove just about anything that water might not remove .....although, if you had to put too much oil in your hair to remove something, then you might have to remove the excess oil....well then, I agree with MerryKat about the conditioner.

However, if you take a swim cap and unless you are the victim of some naughty pranks, you'll probably never have to use oil or conditioner.

embee

April 19th, 2008, 09:28 AM

Wow! Thanks for that wonderful post summarizing the old WO thread. :)

I am WO in winter time, and will continue into summer as long as I can. Last summer when it got really hot and I was working out in my garden often, I found WO simply didn't work for me any more, so I had to use some very dilute shampoo, but as soon as my hot weather gardening season ended I was back to WO. I hope this year I won't need to shampoo at all, but it's too early in the season to tell yet.

I do not use any rinse or oil and never never never again baking soda - it took me *weeks* to get that cleared up, what a mistake for my hair. Talk about dry straw and terminal tangles... Yuk.

pepperedmoth

April 19th, 2008, 09:28 AM

Wow! So much information . . . silly me, I didn't even think of searching the archives.

Relieved to know I'm not the only one whose hair feels like a big block of wax in the shower . . .

Faepirate

April 19th, 2008, 09:29 AM

I'm not ready to try WO yet but I do want to do this when I've got my CO wash frequency down a bit more... so I'll be watching this thread with interest! :)

ItalianFlower

April 19th, 2008, 09:49 AM

Question: what about swimmers? Wouldn't people need to wash it with SOMETHING to get rid of the cholorine?

florenonite

April 19th, 2008, 09:59 AM

Question: what about swimmers? Wouldn't people need to wash it with SOMETHING to get rid of the cholorine?

If you soak it thoroughly in fresh water beforehand you can often do without washing it. Otherwise a swim cap is an excellent option.

ItalianFlower

April 19th, 2008, 10:02 AM

Sweet! ^_^ Thank you. It just occured to me that I'll have to worry about stuff like that this summer!

Qwerty Uiop

April 19th, 2008, 11:38 AM

Thank you! I'm heading in that direction and wanted to keep my littlest dc that way now that his cradle cap is gone.

It's been a long journey for me, starting with CO, moving on to baking soda rinses, and then finding myself needing them less and less frequently. I'm not sure if this is right for me (I have a lot of damage and not very healthy or long hair) but I do know that this is the right time in my life to give it a try and find out.

ds2 is three months old and never looks dirty or greasy unless i've been kissing him with too much (homemade with hair-friendly ingredients) lip balm, in which case it seems to come clean with just warm water and a bit of scrubbing with a washcloth. i want to keep him as natural as possible, either with dreadies or tangle free long hair.

ale

April 19th, 2008, 11:56 AM

This is a good thread!
I'm experimenting with WO in this period; I had a CO wash three weeks ago and then decided to try with water only (without telling it to my wife who is quite horrified at the idea..!). My skin is in general quite greasy and my scalp in consequence, but so far, after two weeks, my hair look clean and not oily at all, as I expected. Just a little darker...
I'll post more as I go along with the experiment.
And thanks for all that advice!

Meli

April 19th, 2008, 08:02 PM

I'm WO-washing as well. I find that my hair and scalp do a lot better on WO than with commercial products. Since I quit using shampoo I have no breakage, much less frizz, no dry scalp flakes or itchies and more soft and shiny hair. And I save a lot of time in the shower when I don't have to rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse to get all shampoo and conditioner out. No way I'll go back to shampoo! My scalp has not completely adjusted yet, but I have had a fairly easy transition so far, and lately I have been able to stretch my washes further. Now my hair is as greasiest about DD4-5, and if I go an entire week between washes it has not been more greasy the last two days.

I'm not hardcore WO, though. I found that I missed the smell of freshly washed hair and I also think my hair looks slightly darker since I quit using shampoo. But adding a couple of drops of lavender EO in my final rinse have fixed the smell issue :D I don't have very hard water, but still I find a small amount of lemon juice beneficial in this final rinse as well. And I need to put some coconut oil on the last few inches whenever they feel a bit dry. I'm also doing cassia treatments every few weeks to condition and strengthen my hair. I have no problem to get the cassia out with WO, a good mermaid soak takes care of that.

About the slightly darker-looking hair: I have not yet found a solution of this, but this only remaining con with WO is not important enough to go back to shampoo - if I have to choose between healthy hair and slightly lighter hair, I choose healthy. And now summer is approaching and I usually get some summer highlights. I have also decided to do more regular chamomile tea rinses in the future to see if I can enhance my haircolour.

Hairytale

April 21st, 2008, 01:13 AM

MerryKat: I don't know. Perhaps you know I tried NW/SO twice. The first time lasted only nine days, and I could definitely notice an increase of flakes at the beginnig of those nine days, but it got better. Then, when I started NW/SO the second time I had no increase of flakes. Does that answer your question?

To all of you: some posts earlier I wrote I'd like to try EOs. Freznow said they could not be applied non-diluted so I started wondering which solution would be the best for me. Yesterday evening I had the idea that I could drop a few drops of an EO on a cotton pad and then could dab my hair with it. So no skin would be in contact with the EO but my hair would smell nice. Do you think that could work in practice as well as in my neat little theory? :shrug:

Thanks to all of you and keep your heads up! :flower:

freznow

April 21st, 2008, 02:30 PM

I think that should work. I know that some people carry around scent balls that are basically a EO soaked cotton pad. (ha now I have a mental image of using your bun as one of those balls, putting the cotton bit in the center... which may not actually be a bad idea...)

I think your theory would work.

Hairytale

April 22nd, 2008, 01:23 AM

Theeehee, freznow, that's a cool idea! :lol: That gives me ideas for new bun styles...:p

But thanks for your reply, I'll try if it works and of course I will report the results!

Hairytale

April 23rd, 2008, 07:17 AM

Well, I tried it and I have to say it works! The smell doesn't last too long, but that's okay in my opinion. It lasts well for one day and a bit weaker for another one or two days.

-- I have a question: does anyone know some chart where I can see which BBB suits which hair type the best? I am thinking of getting a new BBB and I want to be sure I get the right one.
My hair is currently almost BSL (strechted out it already is) and medium fine but my scalp tends to be very flaky (needs a lot of care), if that is of interest.
I'd really appreciate any answers! :flower:

frizzinator

April 23rd, 2008, 10:16 AM

A stiff bbb is the only kind that will help get rid of the flakes. The Mason Pearson B1 Large Extra does a great job scraping flakes off the scalp.

For the first four and a half months of this SO method, I had to use the above referenced brush nearly every day to get rid of the powdery fine flakes.

Interestingly, I have rarely needed to use the brush over the past three months ....but I am using it at least once a month because the stiff bristles are great for cleaning the scalp. It moves the sebum but I think it removes too much sebum from my hair.

Hairytale

April 23rd, 2008, 12:14 PM

Thanks, frizzinator, for your reply! Unfortunately I don't have very much money and a MP is rather out of range for me...does anyone know where I could get them cheaper or if similar but cheaper brushes exist?
(Are short or long bristles more recommendable, btw?)

frizzinator

April 23rd, 2008, 12:41 PM

This is the least expensive Mason Pearson brush that could be found, it's significantly less expensive and several LHC members, some even here in the USA, have happily bought from this company ....you have to scroll down to near the bottom of the page to see the Mason Pearson brushes.
http://www.hubintsecured.co.uk/acatalog/P_index.html

This one is not Mason Pearson, but this less expensive bbb was recommended and the descriptions are interesting and other LHC members have bought this brush ...I think Freznow might have bought this brush too.
http://www.chrissystems.com/BOARBRASS.htm

Qwerty Uiop

April 24th, 2008, 12:15 AM

I was hoping I could get a bit of advice.

My 3 month old son has a common scalp condition that is easily treated with deep oiling (most people use olive oil, but I could also use jojoba or coconut) and I am so sick of having to use shampoo on him afterwards to get it out. Other than treating cradle cap, he is WO.

Does anyone have any suggestions on either

A.) what oil will leave the least residue on his hair

B) a way to remove the oil without commercial producrs

i'm not hard core, so an herbal rinse or mild baking soda solution would be a huge improvement.

tia

trolleypup

April 24th, 2008, 12:55 AM

Going on 2 years WO.

My routine is WO with a vinegar rinse every 4 days.

Wet hair down, use a strong spray of tepid water that penetrates to my scalp all over my scalp, do other shower routines, repeat the strong spray, squirt on vinegar, rinse vinegar mostly out, turban hair in microfiber towel, air dry, finger detangle, finish with fine toothed wood comb.

Wildcate

April 24th, 2008, 01:30 AM

I've done water only for more than a year, and I have recently switched to mild herb rinses/washes. My hair got greasier/waxier after a rinse, so I stretched out and out between washings, but I had gradual build-up of waxiness over the time. In last winter, it got so bad that I started searching in earnest both for the reason and a solution.

Here's my conclusion in short form: Sebum contains a waxy and an oily phase. The relation between the two parts may vary. The oily phase gets lifted and carried away by water, while the waxy phase sort of hardens and clings to the hair, still protecting it. The oils are easily distributed by combing, brushing or preening, while the wax has a tendency to stick and cling. However, the oil dissolves the wax and helps distribute it. If you think sheep, this setup has its reason: The oils carry the wax, but if longer periods of rainy weather occur, the hair gets all waxy and solid, keeping off the rain while the protection for the hair shaft, the wax, still stays on and on.

Problems might occur if there is more wax than the oil can handle, which was the case in my hair. With every rinse, more wax buildup happened. That, at the beginning, was so little each time that though I did notice gunk in my comb and waxy feeling in my hair, I thought it would ease up over time. When it got really bad, I tried vinegar rinsing and I tried oiling with camelia oil, but the vinegar didn't cut it and the oil didn't lift enough of the wax (and even worse, didn't wash out together with the wax but left on its own).
It took me a long, long while to figure that out and to accept that even doing very, very infrequent rinses (less than once a month) will, on my head, lead to buildup that will eventually turn my hair unmanageable (and very unflattering to look at). Keep an eye open for gradually increasing waxiness if you are trying water only, and keep in mind that buildup is a slow, slow thing, so you might only notice it after weeks.
My symptoms were greasier hair after the wash, with an unmistakable waxy feeling to them; the waxiness would gradually get better with combing and brushing after the wash, but increase over a longer time. The wax comes off as darkish brown-gray, distinctively waxy gunk on combs and brushes, and it also attracts dust. Gunkiness in the comb gets less over time, though at the end, I never got fully rid of it. The buildup occured mostly on the upper length (hair nearer the roots), but not at the roots themselves, since the freshly produced scalp oils would lift the wax in that region. The lower length and ends, at the beginning, were ok but got waxy over time too (please bear in mind that I am stubborn and did this a long time, even when it looked really bad, also because I had other things to worry about; and it did take long since my hair is a little more than kneelength).

Hope that helps prospective water-only-folks!

MerryKat

April 24th, 2008, 02:26 AM

I am still happily NW, but my flakey hairline returned over the weekend. I use Sunflower Oil to OCM and a couple of days ago I had the idea to use a little (tiny, tiny amount) of that on the dry flakey area - Bingo! - That area instantly looked better and after applying it every morning for the last 3 days the flakes seem to have gone. I will have to see if this is a long term solution for these flakes.

pepperedmoth

April 24th, 2008, 09:36 AM

Wildcate, what's your routine now to avoid the waxies? You mentioned herbal whatnot . . . ?

ruthietoothie

April 26th, 2008, 11:37 PM

HI all!
I am still here on the SO path...not really loving my hair, but still hoping for better things! I can *almost* see it improving sometimes, but then I look closer, and it still isn't really presentable. Ahh, one month to go! I really hope this works out for me...I am getting jealous of seeing other people w/ lovely long, clean looking hair! I am tired of wearing my sebumy hair up all the time. Oh well, not much longer. I really just don't know exactly what to do if SO doesn't end up working for me...I don't like to think about it really!

Rosa, I miss your posts on this thread! I hope all is going well for you! Please, if you get a chance, let us know how your NW routine is going for you!

julya

April 27th, 2008, 12:48 AM

Hello everyone, I'm going to give this method a try again. I'm thinking of changing my method a bit. I used to just rinse the whole length about once a week, but this time I want to keep water off the length and only rinse the scalp area. It just takes so long for all my hair to dry, but my scalp needs some water to keep it happy.

Does anybody here do WO on scalp and keep the length dry? I wonder how it will work out in the long run. I've been off shampoo for about a week, I think, and the scalp area is pretty oily looking, but I'm happy with how the length looks.

I'm trying this out to see if I can help my body out of this massive shed I've been experiencing for the past two months or so. I've gone from a 4.25" to 3.25" ponytail. I've been using Nature's Gate shampoo on my scalp about once every 7 to 10 days, and keeping the length dry since about November or December. Hopefully I will have success on this attempt at WO. I'm kind of excited that this might help me!

frizzinator

April 27th, 2008, 06:46 AM

For nearly 40 years, I shed an average of 50 hairs a day. Over the past couple of months, I shed an average of 10 hairs a day. I know this because I count the shed hair.

What I am doing differently is a whole lot of fingercombing, due to the preening that I have to do for this SO method. I fingercomb gently starting at the hemline and work my way up the hair shaft to the scalp, thus I'm removing each tangle with my fingers instead of ripping through them with a comb.

I do this twice a day, and always before combing and brushing. Also, I have not needed to use the brush as much as in the past. During the past couple of months I have brushed once every three weeks. And after I use the brush, there will be one hair in it.

In your WO situation, it is very important to not comb your wet hair until it is completely dry. It is extremely difficult to train yourself to not touch your wet hair. I learned this during the 6 weeks I practiced WO last year before I gave up rinsing entirely.

If I had to leave the house, I used a huge jaw clip to hold my mass of damp tangled hair up on my head, and would remove the jaw to let my hair dry whenever possible. When all of the hair is completely dry, you can fingercomb with ease and not lose much hair in the process.

In addition, I wear my hair up everyday. It makes a huge difference ...less tangles and less shedding.

birthmarkie

April 28th, 2008, 10:59 AM

I have been a lurker on this thread since the previous LHC board. I just have a feeling my hair and scalp could do well with NW/SO. I did WO for a month last year and it was great until I tried to do a mermaid wash. Anyway, I decided to jump aboard and have been NW for the past 3 days. I have been keeping a journal and might compile and share it at some point.

ruthietoothie

April 28th, 2008, 11:01 AM

Nice to see you here, Birhtmarkie! Welcome! I look forward to seeing how you do w/ this!

birthmarkie

April 28th, 2008, 11:05 AM

Nice to see you here, Birhtmarkie! Welcome! I look forward to seeing how you do w/ this!

Thank you! :D

Wildcate

April 28th, 2008, 11:56 PM

My routine in short? Not settled yet. ;)
I've tried hibiscus tea (with some other stuff thrown in) and soapnut, and it seems enough to get the wax out of my hair. At the moment, it seems to improve with every (infrequent) rinse, and I made a batch of herbal wash stuff recently. If you'd like to know the details, it's more or less all in my journal/blog, including the recipe for the latest trial batch. When rinsing, I can actually see sort of an oil film floating on top of the tea concoction, and very little "cleaning agents" seem to already go a long way for me.

But it might well be that your oil/wax ratio is better compatible to water only.

Siamese

April 29th, 2008, 12:13 AM

Another one going on 2 years of WO here. Hair routine is random. Some weeks I'll WO every 2nd/3rd day and other times I'll go several weeks before washing wth water. It took almost a year for my hair/scalp to settle as I tried different routines. It's been very forgiving. My hair has reduced its shedding and I can only see myself returning to products for 3 reasons:

1. dandruff/scalp problems
2. if my hair begins to yellow (I'm growing the grey in)
3. the ends become dry and brittle

Naluin

April 30th, 2008, 09:53 AM

Problems might occur if there is more wax than the oil can handle, which was the case in my hair. With every rinse, more wax buildup happened. That, at the beginning, was so little each time that though I did notice gunk in my comb and waxy feeling in my hair, I thought it would ease up over time. When it got really bad, I tried vinegar rinsing and I tried oiling with camelia oil, but the vinegar didn't cut it and the oil didn't lift enough of the wax (and even worse, didn't wash out together with the wax but left on its own).
It took me a long, long while to figure that out and to accept that even doing very, very infrequent rinses (less than once a month) will, on my head, lead to buildup that will eventually turn my hair unmanageable (and very unflattering to look at). Keep an eye open for gradually increasing waxiness if you are trying water only, and keep in mind that buildup is a slow, slow thing, so you might only notice it after weeks.

I've been WO for nearly 8 months. I usually wash in warm water every 2-3 days. I also started getting waxy buildup. After washing, sometimes my hair would look like it was coated in something that lent a weird greyish cast to my hair.

So yesterday, I washed my hair with mild body wash and followed up with a conditioner that I just bought. Now, I'm buildup free,but my hair feels very fluffy and bare.:rolleyes:

ruthietoothie

May 2nd, 2008, 03:05 PM

Tangles

May 2nd, 2008, 06:31 PM

My dad has coarse 3b/c type hair. Sometimes he's too lazy to use shampoo, so he just wets it with water. My mom has been complaining for years that this dries his hair out.

I myself tried WO on my 2A, grease prone hair. It left me dry, tangled and I probably broke off a lot of hairs when combing it. Why on earth do some people swear by this? It seems so incredibly drying. I'm sure it works for some; I just don't really see how.

loves2spin

May 2nd, 2008, 06:40 PM

I know it certainly did not work for me! But some people here seem to really like it. Maybe it's a combination of the right hair, the right water and the right climate!

freznow

May 2nd, 2008, 06:44 PM

The water in your area makes a BIG difference. And other things that loves2spin pointed out. And technique matters: some people find that massaging before, during, or after rinsing does good or does bad. Some people prefer to rinse cold/hot/cold. So there are a bunch of factors; also note that you're both decently wavy, which can sometimes be quite picky over moisture levels. AND it takes a while to adjust to WO, sometimes up to 3 months.

Speedbump

May 2nd, 2008, 06:56 PM

freznow is correct; water does matter a lot. Also, your technique, how often you wash it and lots of other things change your outcome as well. I have a very dry scalp and fine hair that tends to be dry. WO worked well for me as long as I did not wash too often and as long as I used some kind of leave-in conditioner afterward. Shea It Ain't So worked the best, but in a pinch Moonchaser's Sweet Success Hair Oil or even plain coconut oil worked too.

The main thing is that you cannot wash as often using WO as you did with shampoo and conditioner. Water alone IS drying and it can really mess you up. Also, it can take up to six weeks for your scalp to learn to regulate itself without the products, so you have to really give it a proper chance.

WO is much more difficult for curlies, I do know that. One thing I did to transition my hair was to do a WO wash, and then put conditioner just on my length below the ears and then rinse that out and later put in leave-in. I believe I eventually ended up making that my routine with WO because my hair, as curly as it is, just could not take the stripping that WO causes.

I hope this helps! If there is a WO thread on the new forums somewhere and you are really interested in trying WO, the folks who are still doing it would have a lot of insights to help you with any bumps in the road. :flower:

squiggyflop

May 2nd, 2008, 07:20 PM

i tried this before i joined lhc for a week while i was in the hospital because i didnt have any shampoo.. i was a grease monster and got really painful pimples on my scalp and neck.. my hair wasnt dry at all.. it was so oily that i had to keep it up all day.. im glad no one i know saw me .. well exept dad..

tmmycat

May 2nd, 2008, 07:41 PM

I am confused about how WO could make hair dry ... sebum doesn't dissolve very well in water, and dry hair is hair that has no sebum on it.

it seems more likely that the water has a pH that is too high which would cause the cuticle to stand up and the hair would feel rough. the pH might be fixable by mixing a small amount of vinegar with the water. or maybe hard water leaves mineral deposits on the hair.

If I wake up and my hair looks dry then I rinse it with water only and it feels a lot better when it dries. if anything, it feels softer and less dry. but I have very soft water with a neutral pH.

freznow

May 2nd, 2008, 07:43 PM

I'm still here, counting down the days until my 5 months are up. I know, it's bad of me to feel that way, but my hair simply is not nice looking. Even though I am counting down, I still have no idea what to try next w/ my hair. Any suggestions? I think a "miracle" w/ SO is pretty much assuredly not going to happen, so I am preparing myself for what else I should try. I was getting frustrated on WO, and CV bars only worked magic for a few weeks, then my hair started looking icky w/ them too. And I don't want to use chemicals again. AUGH!!! THIS is why I so want NW/SO to work for me!!!

Hmm if I were you I'd go to a stretched out WO or CV bar routine using distilled water. At least for the first experiment if you stop SO. Good luck in your endeavors, and I'd be sorry if you stopped, but it's rather pointless if you're not happy with it. I hope you find a nice routine in good time :blossom:

mommy101405

May 2nd, 2008, 07:53 PM

I tried it for a while when I was trying to go to washing less. Maybe I was doing it wrong but I just has a super oily scalp and knotty tangled ends :rolleyes:

tmmycat

May 2nd, 2008, 07:55 PM

I also run into the oily scalp issue with WO. right now 2 days in a row of WO is the longest I can go and then my roots are greasy and I need a co-wash to get the extra oil out.

ruthietoothie

May 2nd, 2008, 08:39 PM

birthmarkie

May 2nd, 2008, 09:24 PM

I gave it a month and it was amazing for my hair. I keep meaning to do it again. It wasn't drying for me, but it takes some dedication to make it work. I remember it was essential to only finger comb, especially while the hair is still wet. And massage the scalp.

julya

May 3rd, 2008, 12:38 AM

I'm trying out WO, and I seem to be doing ok. I only rinse my scalp though, and keep the length dry. Water on my length makes the tangles worse, plus it takes forever to dry.

jessie58

May 3rd, 2008, 12:52 AM

There is a lot involved that determines whether or not WO is for you, as others have mentioned, the type of water you have makes a big difference. Your scalp type and if you massage, comb and brush out the sebum to the ends or not. It does take a bit of work to make WO work well. Rinsing only is not usually sufficient.

Kazazi

May 3rd, 2008, 02:51 AM

Hi Ruthie,

I don't do NW but still follow this thread out of sheer interest. Somewhere else on this forum I read about some peeps using eggs successfully as a shampoo and that they were very gentle. Have you thought about this?

Good luck :)

n3m3sis42

May 3rd, 2008, 08:23 AM

Thanks Freznow:) I agree, I will try extended WO rinses again at first. Hopefully that will work. (though in March, when I rinsed that ONE time, my hair was greasy looking at the roots again in 2 days. Yuck. You'd think my scalp would STOP producing oil at SOME point!:rolleyes:

If that doesn't work, I'll add a ACV rinse no more than once a week. If that fails me, then I'll try CV bars again. If I absolutely must go back to commercial products, I'll try the "Curlygirl" line "DevaCurl" of low/no 'poo's and gels. I am pretty sure they are less carcinagic (sp?) than other brands out there.

And yeah, I'm bummed it isn't working too, I really, really REALLY wanted it to.

Hi, ruthietoothie! I don't do NW/SO, but I sometimes read this thread because I find it conceptually interesting.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but if you do decide to give the CV bars another try, maybe you can come over to the Shampoo Bar Thread and share some information about the specific bars you are using, along with your methods and the problems you experience?

I'm not an expert by any means, but I love the CV bars and there are a lot of people over on that thread who may be able to help you get them to work for you. :)

Anje

May 3rd, 2008, 11:03 AM

It worked pretty well for me... I finally broke down because my scalp turned unusually greasy this winter, and I loved how much moister CO made my ends. Now that summer's coming around, the WO bug has bitten again, but I need to modify it a little this time. My ends got dry even with all the oils I added to them. Most of my hair was very moisturized, though, didn't shed as much, wasn't flyaway, wasn't greasy, and I've got tons of new growth that from the length, started when I was doing WO washes.

jessie58

May 3rd, 2008, 11:32 AM

I actually forgot to say that my hair is gorgeous when I use Water Only. I have to wash my scalp monthly though because I still dye my roots and the dye will not take well if I do not wash. So I can't really stick with it on a full time basis. I mostly use WO to wash my hair but lately have taken to conditioning it. My ends were dry and as it grows, the tangles are getting difficult to comb out as well.

tmmycat

May 3rd, 2008, 11:59 AM

I have a question about water-only washes...

I tried it today

- before: my shoulder-length hair was very greasy at the roots and dry on the ends.

- during wash: I massaged my scalp with hot water running over it, then finished with a rinse of freezing cold water

- after: my hair was very "fuzzy" as it dried. Is that normal? is it a sign of damage? I'm concerned that the fuzziness was caused by the hot water, but I had to make it hot to melt the sebum.

- now that my hair has dried: it looks and feels great. my roots aren't greasy any more and the ends aren't dry. so I think I managed to melt some sebum out of the scalp area and distribute it to the tips. the fuzziness is also gone.

jessie58

May 3rd, 2008, 12:14 PM

The fuzziness is likely due to two things. One, the good massage that it got, ruffling up the hairs and two, the hot water tends to open up the cuticle of the hair. If you rinse with cool or even cold water, you will find that the cold water closes the cuticle, making the hair smoother.
I'm glad it felt and looked nice after it dried. I always marveled that it felt so waxy when wet and then dried to such beautiful smooth hair.

tmmycat

May 3rd, 2008, 12:22 PM

do you think it would be damaging to do this long-term? I am very interested in it because my skin is so sensitive and lots of hair products make me break out. this would be 100% non-irritating. but I don't want to damage my hair permanently by opening up the cuticle all the time. I will try it anyway and see how it goes ... today would be day 1! maybe I will try to go a week without my co-wash and see how that goes.

jessie58

May 3rd, 2008, 12:46 PM

WO is not damaging to the hair. How you treat your hair otherwise can be damaging. Hot or cold water will not make any difference in the health of your hair.
Rinsing with warmer water helps to move the sebum down the hair.
Gentle massage is good for your scalp and for loosening up dirt and oils on your scalp.
Also for stimulating the blood flow to the scalp. Vigorous massage can be too much.
A final rinse with cooler water helps to close the cuticle and set the sebum. Neither of those things are bad for the hair.

However some people find that combing out the waxy hair is very difficult and may cause you to yank a comb through your hair. Take care in combing your hair while using WO and you shouldn't have any damaging effects. Combing is important for long term WO users though. It distributes the sebum throughout the hair rather than having it just sit at the roots.

tmmycat

May 3rd, 2008, 12:50 PM

ok that makes sense. should I comb it wet or dry? sorry for all the questions I am just not sure how to do this right. I usually brush my hair with BBB before I wash it, and then if it's dry and my scalp is itchy i use a wooden paddle brush. is that enough combing?

jessie58

May 3rd, 2008, 12:52 PM

Brushing with a BBB before washing is an excellent way to distribute sebum. Perhaps you may not need to comb out the tangles after a wash? Most people do, so when combing wet hair that has been washed with WO, it's often more difficult to get a comb through because of all the waxiness.

rhubarbarin

May 3rd, 2008, 02:54 PM

Yeah completely WO doesn't work for me. I can do WO on my scalp, I just have to use some kind of conditioner on my length, otherwise I don't have a prayer of detangling without major breakage. I don't comb or brush my hair except when it's wet and conditioned (and even then I have to be very careful and use a super-wide-tooth comb or just my fingers) so there's really not a chance of much sebum getting worked down my length..

If I cut my hair back to above the shoulder and start doing it from there I could probably make it work, but that's not going to happen!

Speedbump

May 3rd, 2008, 02:56 PM

- during wash: I massaged my scalp with hot water running over it, then finished with a rinse of freezing cold water

- after: my hair was very "fuzzy" as it dried. Is that normal? is it a sign of damage? I'm concerned that the fuzziness was caused by the hot water, but I had to make it hot to melt the sebum.
You don't really have to "melt" your sebum unless you have a very waxy sebum that tends to get hard and is very sticky. (Most people do not have this type.) Most people who WO find that COLD water actually works better to get rid of sebum. Odd, yes, but when I was doing it I had much better washing results all around when I used water as cold as I could stand to wash with as well as rinse. You really should not have to "melt" the oil at all unless you have that very specific type of sebum. IIRC, people who tried WO who do have it often found that WO will not work for them longterm.

jessie58

May 3rd, 2008, 03:25 PM

Speedy, that's a really good point, that is what worked for me but I remember somebody else saying that the cold water rinse was what worked best for them.

WO is very different for everybody and you will likely have to experiment to get good results.
For instance I have very neutral scalp conditions, meaning that I neither have oily hair or dry or flaky scalp. WO does not bother my scalp and the more the sebum moved down, the nicer my hair got. Some people with oily scalps have difficulty adjusting to the beginning periods of WO when you get an oily or waxy feel on the scalp. Some eventually adjust and some never get past the oily stage.

Others with itchy or flaky scalp find that WO works perfectly for them because it eliminates the dry condition but others find that it irritates their scalp condition. So besides the water conditions mentioned earlier, hard or soft water, if you comb your hair, your individual scalp conditions really make a difference. Also women can have issues during their period when the body chemistry changes.

As mentioned earlier, I found that demi permamant dye did not take on my roots when I was exclusively using WO. So you really have to figure out what is best for you.

The initial transition period is different for everybody too, some people get past the oily, sticky phase quickly and others can go on for a long period of time.

I suggest reading as much as you can of the original article to find ideas that might work for you.

tmmycat

May 3rd, 2008, 06:02 PM

You don't really have to "melt" your sebum unless you have a very waxy sebum that tends to get hard and is very sticky. (Most people do not have this type.) Most people who WO find that COLD water actually works better to get rid of sebum.

Interesting ... I will try just cold water next time and see how it goes. my hair definitely likes cold water better than hot, so if that works, it work be awesome.

I have one more question ... I read about brushing hair with a washcloth as a way to distribute oils to the ends ... is that done in the shower? or on wet hair? or dry?

Lamb

May 3rd, 2008, 06:09 PM

I am confused about how WO could make hair dry ... sebum doesn't dissolve very well in water, and dry hair is hair that has no sebum on it.

Er... yes, so I though too. But unless you have an oil gland around the middle of each hair strand, it will take a looooong time until the ends of your hair can see the benefit of having an oily scalp. :cool:

(Note: I am a curly, so I can't even brush to help the sebum get to the ends - people with straighter hair may not have such problems. :shrug: )

Anje

May 3rd, 2008, 06:48 PM

I have one more question ... I read about brushing hair with a washcloth as a way to distribute oils to the ends ... is that done in the shower? or on wet hair? or dry?

The people who rub with a washcloth do it wet, in the shower. However, it strikes me as a bad idea for people with hair that's longer than a couple inches. Brushing with a washcloth will only touch the top layer of hair (the canopy) unless you're really thorough, and it's going to cause lots of wear on the hair. Just scrub your scalp with your fingers, maybe part it in a few different places, and let the water run over it. You can try to smooth sebum down the length with your hands if you like, though I found this just pulled my hair.

ruthietoothie

May 4th, 2008, 09:27 AM

Hi, ruthietoothie! I don't do NW/SO, but I sometimes read this thread because I find it conceptually interesting.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but if you do decide to give the CV bars another try, maybe you can come over to the Shampoo Bar Thread and share some information about the specific bars you are using, along with your methods and the problems you experience?

I'm not an expert by any means, but I love the CV bars and there are a lot of people over on that thread who may be able to help you get them to work for you. :)

Thanks for the suggestion! I may try that. But first, I will try WO again. (I'm cheap like that!)

birthmarkie

May 4th, 2008, 09:30 AM

I made it NW for a week, which was a big deal for me, but I had so many flakes I couldn't do it anymore. My hair was very happy; my scalp was not. I'm now considering WO again and to try to stretch the WO washes out with NW in between. In the past, with WO, I had to rinse every day. So I plan to start like that and then stretch the washes out slowly.

tmmycat

May 4th, 2008, 09:31 AM

Er... yes, so I though too. But unless you have an oil gland around the middle of each hair strand, it will take a looooong time until the ends of your hair can see the benefit of having an oily scalp. :cool:

oic ... that makes sense. my hair isn't even that long (shoulder-length) and I noticed my ends needed some oil after I washed it last time. I had to put oil on my tips and bangs. that is truly baffling and counterintuitive.

last night I washed my hair with water slightly warmer than body temperature (about 100F ... yes, I am a dork, I took a thermometer with me into the shower). then I rinsed it with freezing cold water. I used a blow-drier on the cool setting to dry it, combing it VERY gently as I dried it, and added oil on places that seemed dry. It turned out really soft and nice. but it wasn't that oily before this, having just washed it in the morning too, so I will have to wait for the next time it's oily to see if this temperature works. this is a very time-consuming routine ... I can't picture myself doing it in the morning! maybe I will switch to washing my hair after work while I am on this experiment.

my "hot water" experiment earlier was probably like 115F. way too hot.... I don't think I will do that again. I think my hair is still recovering from being massaged in water that hot.

loves2spin

May 5th, 2008, 05:42 AM

Very interesting. I rather hope you will find time to keep us totally up to date here. It sounds as if you are being very smart about it. Good luck Tmmycat!

pepperedmoth

May 5th, 2008, 08:37 AM

Funny that so many people find WO drying; WO is the ONLY thing I have found that KEEPS my hair from being dried out! I had tried ordinary wash-condition, then I tried 'no 'poo' using ACV and BS, then I tried Conditioner Only, then I tried non-SLS shampoos, then I tried no-cones, then I tried cones, then I tried henna . . . except for the week after I applied henna, my hair was always dry, brittle, miserable. I cut it all off once to a couple of inches and started over; I cut it off to shoulder-length and started over, I cut it off AGAIN to shoulder length and started over . . .

Finally, finally, finally I discovered that if I henna regularly, use WO, massage my scalp in the hot shower to distribute the sebum, brush with a BBB right before hopping in the shower, oil the ends, and braid it before going to sleep at night . . . it's not dry.

Granted, I'm doing so many other things to baby it that maybe the WO isn't what's working best, but I'd been oiling and dusting and BBB'ing all along in my pre WO days, and it didn't seem to help.

Anyway. I love WO. It's also cured my dandruff, and thickened my hair. I couldn't be happier . . .

ruthietoothie

May 5th, 2008, 01:17 PM

Ok, I'm officially back to WO. I rinsed today. I am tired of looking greasy and there doesn't truly seem to be any end in sight. Oh well. I didn't rinse very thoroughly at all (I didn't have the time to, even if I had wanted to!) My hair is nice looking now, for the first time in months.:cool:, which is a really great feeling!

Perhaps someday when I am no longer nursing, I can try this again, but for now, I'm off to experiment further w/ my hair!

ETA: As I was rinsing my hair, I felt sad. I was not happy to be rinsing, I really wanted N/W to work. It was hard to throw more than 4 months of hard "work" down the drain, but it is for the best I think. I will miss N/W, strange as it may seem. I don't look forward to finding a new routine, though hopefully I find one that I am comfortable with on all levels.

Thanks again to all the support you ALL gave me over the months! I really needed it...I wouldn't have made it this far if it weren't for your help! Thank you very much!

movie zombie

May 5th, 2008, 11:17 PM

ruthie, i know what you mean about feeling sad about go off SO. however, like you i just wasn't enjoying my hair any more.....but we can always try another time!

movie zombie

ruthietoothie

May 6th, 2008, 06:57 AM

Yes, Movie Zombie, I may try it again another time in the future.

Last night as I was laying in bed, I found the words to describe how I feel about stopping NW/SO...it's a chapter in my life that I will miss. I am sad to see this "chapter" of my life come to a close. I don't really want to be looking for a new hair routine. NW may not have worked for me, but after 4+ months on it, I had grown accustomed to it. I feel like I am re-entering the "rat-race" of washing hair every few days, always battling "bad hair days", never knowing how my hair is going to look day to day. At least on NW, I could pretty much assume my hair would be greasy looking!:p

tmmycat

May 6th, 2008, 06:59 PM

I am still doing WO and it seems like I don't need to oil the tips any more now ... I think because my sebum has made it all the way down the the ends (which is only at my shoulders so it didn't have very far to go!) My hair has been very soft and nice the past days ... I guess I lucked out.

If anyone is interested, I started a blog here about my WO experiment and hair growth progress (with pics) -
http://janedoe-hairblog.blogspot.com/

pepperedmoth, I also had the same experience that CO was drying, isn't it weird? conditioner is "supposed to be" moisturizing but for me it removes more oil than it adds, unless it's a really heavy one. I think it is because of the emulsifiers in it which allow oil and water to mix. So the sebum mixes with the shower water and rinses away, leaving the hair with no sebum in it (or minimal sebum), and to me that feels dry. for me shampoo + conditioner was the most drying, CO was 10 times less drying, and WO is the least drying of all for me so far.

jessie58

May 6th, 2008, 07:13 PM

tmmycat, my hair takes so long to get dirty looking or at the stage of needing a wash. So when I use shampoo or conditioner too often, my hair gets super clean and gets every strand of hair separated from each other and gets flyaway and loses the curl. The less produce I use, the nicer my hair looks. The water only made my hair so nice. I could go on forever with WO, lol and my hair would look great. However I broke the cycle and now my hair is looking so crappy. Lately I've been using Water to wash and a tiny bit of conditioner to detangle, it's much better than it was. I am hoping that I can ease off the conditioner and then it will look good once again with WO.

Tangles

May 6th, 2008, 09:23 PM

jessie58

May 6th, 2008, 09:26 PM

Interesting answers, thanks to everyone for offering input. I'm currently doing CWC using a very small amount of shampoo to fluff up my roots. It works well. I don't think I'm ever going to be brave enough to do WO. Sometimes I just feel there is a reason why everyone in the non-LHC world uses poo and dish. :confused:

I tell you, the whole world has been conditioned to use S&C, some day perhaps more people will get back to natural cleansing and care.

When I first heard of WO, I thought how bizarre! However now that I know what I know and have tried it myself, there is no more stigma on not washing one's hair with products, for me.

movie zombie

May 7th, 2008, 12:12 AM

At least on NW, I could pretty much assume my hair would be greasy looking!:p

LOL!!!!!!

movie zombie

tmmycat

May 7th, 2008, 05:39 AM

sure there is a reason why everyone in the non-LHC uses shampoo ... advertising.

they don't realize that they have other options

Katze

May 7th, 2008, 06:03 AM

no, tmmycat, it's not quite that simple. :)

I tried no-'poo last November-April. My hair was very happy at the beginning, though much oilier with CO and duller with WO, but the dullness increased until it was much more often dull and yucky than it was nice.When I went back to occasional diluted shampoo, my hair suddenly had life and shine to it, and was far less tangled.

WO works well for me as an inbetween wash, though I find the opposite as the OP - it doesn't really get my hair clean. I might CWC with 'cones one wash, get GREAT hair, then WO for the next wash 4 days later to extend the shine and manageability of the 'cone wash. The next wash will definitely need shampoo, or my hair gets greasy and my scalp doesn't get clean.

The trick for me, anyway, with sensitive, greasy scalp and dry, damaged ends, is to do a LOT of scalp massaging while WO washing, using my fingers to move the sebum down the length. The better condition my hair seems to have may be due to this, I don't know. WO is also good for itchies.

ruthietoothie

May 7th, 2008, 08:03 AM

SO, is this the "official Water Only" thread? Or is there another one I am missing?

I am back to WO, after having just been on NW/SO for 4+months. But I like to have encouragement! I did WO for 9 months last year.

ruthietoothie

May 7th, 2008, 08:11 AM

So is THIS the "Official" Water Only thread?

I am looking for one, but am having problems!

(mods, could we make ONE an "official" WO thread, for less confusion, please?)

trolleypup

May 7th, 2008, 08:33 AM

So is THIS the "Official" Water Only thread?

I am looking for one, but am having problems!

(mods, could we make ONE an "official" WO thread, for less confusion, please?)
When it balloons past a 1000 posts, we'll know for sure. ;)

But, sure...I can change the thread title.

trolleypup

May 7th, 2008, 08:39 AM

So is THIS the "Official" Water Only thread?

I am looking for one, but am having problems!

(mods, could we make ONE an "official" WO thread, for less confusion, please?)
Threads merged for cause.

Enjoy!

ruthietoothie

May 7th, 2008, 08:40 AM

Thanks!:)

Now I know where to turn for WO help!:cheese:

tmmycat

May 7th, 2008, 05:18 PM

it's not quite that simple

You are correct ... I meant to say that *most* people who use shampoo do it because of they don't know about other options. some people use shampoo because they have tried multiple things and found that shampoo works the best for their hair. But I think the experimenters are in the minority. :) most people head out to buy what they see on TV

ATrixie

May 9th, 2008, 09:01 AM

LOL Ruthie, I am contemplating rinsing my hair too (& I've been NW/SO from Dec. 27th) - I feel I sorta got taken over by the greasies (being told off by Grandma & seeing her worried for my hair might have had something to do with it too! I wish I hadn't told her of my experiments!! & Dad is sorta against it too... I wish I hadn't told him either!)

Truth is, my Sis gets worse hair & scalp after 7 days of not washing with Head & Shoulders, so this is the only happy thing that keeps me going!! :D That & fear of the greasies if I 'let go' again...
Cause the hair is muuch better than 1st month with NW or 1st month or two with WO, when I was still searching on how to do it... (& the thought of cold WO rinses still terrifies me... :))

I'm contemplating a water rinse to rinse off any potential 'winter residue' (soot or factory smog or such acquired when walking outside...) The original lady from the article that inspired the original WO thread rinsed her hair every few months... So I've kinda been thinking about this... But - is it enough to do a WO rinse, or would other things be better? Is there another 'transition period' the hair goes through after the WO rinse... (?) :luke:

The thoughts clash in my mind... Any hints or tips would be greatly appreciated!!

Maybe it's enough to have a 'Spring cleaning' & then have a WO at every season change? (Has anyone tried something like this?)

ruthietoothie

May 9th, 2008, 09:32 AM

Atrixie, Everyone seems to interpret NW a little differently. If rinsing every few months will keep you and your hair happiest, then I say, go for it! I had intended to do that also (had I not had 4 months of greasies that never stopped!). Since rinsing w/ water once every few months is hardly considered "excessive"...I would certainly consider you to be NW w/ that routine. But that is just me!

Sorry your family is not as supportive as you would like...that stinks!

ATrixie

May 9th, 2008, 10:10 AM

Roothie, thanks!! :) I hope you find a routine you & your hair will be happy with too!!

I've re-read some of the earlier posts here, & got some inspiration from that... 'When dissatisfied with hair, just do some more grooming!' Frizzinator is such an inspiration!! (I now did groming as I read the forum posts! lol)

Must remember to do grooming when reading, watching TV or reading forum posts... (doesn't work that well with posting, as I need both hands for typing or grooming hair the best way!)

So, I'll sum up all that has helped me when doing NW/SO before:
Best hair was obtained if doing 'the hair routine' 3x a day (before visits or such lol), every day (for at least 2 days in advance - though I always said I'd start doing it earlier on for better results!) for quite some time. I had '100 strokes with a brush' in mind, so I went for 'at least 10 strokes with both hands' (ideally more! - hair was better with more strokes!) - I mostly did preening with fingers, as I found this worked best! (& broke my hair least when I got the hang of it!)

Hair was at its best a few hours later... (in the evening, if I groomed it in the late morning/midday/after lunch)

It could look grossest/oiliest immediately after grooming, especially if I 'let it go' for 3 days or so (I was sometimes succombed into that, or just doing the minimal grooming, - 'but it looks allright-ish' or 'the initial lady who did this surely did it to save time & didn't 'lose time' with preening & such' - I am still intrigued by that but even leaving my hair 'on its own for 7 days+ resulted in nothing but greasiness. more greasiness than if preening every day. Though somehow similar greasiness as after 3 days of non-preening. I am still somewhat intrigued by this all. Could the hair be 'left on its own' & have another transition & 'learn' to be on its own without preening? That would be the dream!! :))

Hair looked 'at its worst' oily-wise (the next day or so) if I just scritched & massaged scalp! So - even if you may be tempted to do that, for whatever reason, expect the oilies then! (again, not immediately, but in a few hours or the next day)
(Ruthie, I think I remember reading you did some of this at times...? Maybe this could be the reason for your dissatisfaction, or at least one of them?)

It took me 3 days or so to 'get hair under control' if I 'let it go' for 3 days or so...
Still trying to tame it after the 7 day period... (I thought, 'even if I groom it, Grams nags me about it... Let's leave it & see what happens...' OoO LOL)
Unfortunately, I posted about it at another (non-supportive) forum, so this bugs me even more! Instead of them being sympathetic with me, Granny-wise, I'm being questioned for cleanliness & suggested soap bars! OoO (I think I better stay away from those forums!! :))

Anyway, just curious, has anyone left the hair without preening/grooming for longer periods of time - & what happened?

/On a happier note, I find it now sticks in a bun even without any toys at all!! I couldn't do that when the hair was shorter & less greasy! :D/

ruthietoothie

May 9th, 2008, 12:42 PM

ATrixie, I tried it all. I tried massaging/scritching/preening daily. I tried it 2x a day. I tried leaving my hair alone for days w/ out any massaging/preening/scritching...my hair was bad, all the time. It didn't matter what I did. That's the part that stunk the most. I tried, I really did. But that is also why I was comfortable enough to stop a little earlier than I had planned. I really feel I gave it a good try.

I hope you find what works for you! That's what this whole forum is for, right? To make our hair happy?! (and share in the triumphs and disappointments along the way!)

freznow

May 9th, 2008, 01:07 PM

Atrixie, may I ask how exactly you groom? Mostly when I do something with it I massage the scalp, the length doesn't get much attention because it never seems to get better (just more tangly) when I try to spread the sebum down it.

I am one person who sometimes does nothing with it for long periods of time... The scalp sheds noticeably then when I scratch it but the length is the same as always (probably because the routine doesn't change for the length...)

I over oiled my hair the other day (grapeseed oil, I just got a bottle, I had to try it out) and I actually like it. Definitely not wear down able but it makes me feel better about my not-quite-as-oily hair and I can brush it when it's over oiled. It's generally a bit better behaved like this. So now I'm going to wait for it to clear up. :lol: apparently I'm a binge oiler. Works okay for me though.

julya

May 9th, 2008, 04:04 PM

ATrixie, please do describe your grooming technique (and my family thinks I'm nuts too). I also tend to just leave my hair alone for days like freznow, I just rebun when I need to and detangle every three or four (or more) days before I rinse.

And ruthietoothie, I'm sorry to hear that NW didn't end up working out this time. I'm a newbie on this thread, so I haven't yet read through the whole thing, but it sounds like you have success with WO. If so, that is very encouraging for me to hear.

I ended only lasting about two weeks WO, I did a very gentle CO on Sunday. But I'm back on track since then! I tried to not put the conditioner right on my scalp too much, and it really seems to have helped motivate me to ditch shampoo. The CO just took the edge off the greasies, so it is tolerable again.

Oh, and I picked up a pretty wood comb. I'm having loads of fun with it.

I actually haven't wet my hair since Sunday, and it's still looking pretty nice. Not wear down nice, but I almost never wear it down anyway.

ATrixie

May 9th, 2008, 04:20 PM

lol 'Binge oiler' - so your hair is dry, originally?
In what way is it 'the same' as always? (because mine, well, isn't... there's quite a difference if I groom or not, if I don't hair gets very strandy & oily)
When I started NW/SO the hair by the scalp was very oily, now the oiliness has moved down... I don't even imagine doing any additional oiling!!

Hm, how exactly I groom? :) That's debatable!

Well, if I'm good :) I take the time - definitely much more than 10 minutes, I never timed myself, but it feels more along 30 minutes to 1 hour or so... So it helps if it's while I read a book or watch beautiful YouTube videos (though the headphones are slightly in the way :)) or read forums.. :)

If I'm in a rush, I just do it quickly, take less time, & get worse results.. I kinda do what Frizzinator & Kebbster told me to(she's from Australia & I miss her a lot!! Is she still on these boards?). I don't have a BBB brush, or any kind of good brush (the ones I have broke my hair, as did the fine comb...) So I decided to try my fingers at this, as I was assured it was doable... & really fingers could distribute the sebum down my hair best, really... (& detangle too, I detangle a strand first, if I feel a tangle & then 'sebumize' it...) it may take a while to get used to it though, to get 'the feel' - I broke more hair initially or when doing it again after some time off, but it's easier once you find your moves...
Though now the middle length of my hair seems to be worst, it's okay-ish up at the scalp, mostly...

I haven't really massaged/scritched 'big time' (whole scalp, all at once) in a while, cause it can get my hair really greasy, I do every few days or so, or once a week or less, when I remember or when there's a need to (yellowish sebum under my nails when I do test-scritching, sorry to be gross!! or slight itching or whatever). Then I do full-scalp scritching & massage with my fingers. It does feel wonderful for the scalp... (the massage) & I found a point at the back of my head to help me pee lol!! (probably some acupuncture meridian!)

I do scritch & massage a bit every day, to see if the scalp needs a full-scale scritching/massage mostly... or to just get any flakes from front/visible area :cool:
Maybe I did this too often without following it with hair grooming? hmm...
(& yup there's some tiny flakes going on at the scalp often, but if there's more then I scritch & massage with fingers & then get oily lol)

I just take individual strands of hair, beginning at the front, & smooth them down between my fingers, usually thumb &index finger, so there's a really thin layer of hair - the thinner, the better it works... (but the more time it takes...) There is more repetition & better results if I use both hands, intermittently (left hand-right hand...) I take individual strands & go around the head, then from the other side, from front to back... Unfortunately, I get pretty tired of it by the end, so my back is worst-groomed...
I do up to bottom, as I read somewhere in the old NW/SO thread that the scalp stops oiling when the sebum reaches the hair ends.
But my hair is way shorter than yours - I think I need 20 cm or so to my waist...

Hm, maybe starting at the back & going to front sometimes would be a good idea? (so I finally 'did' my back hair well...?)

Ruthie, you are totally right, the key is finding the right routine that works for you and your hair!! We are all different & our hair & lifestyles are different too!!
It would be great to find something that would be environmentally friendly & health-friendly & hair-friendly & worked for all, but as it is we're all basically experimenting to see what's best for us! Wishing you & everyone else to find that ideal balance!!

I'll try to 'give it my best' till next Thursday or Friday, as I have a 'thing' on Saturday... so... If all else fails (or I still wanna rinse), I'll rinse then...

PS Is anyone from WO or NW/SO threads actually brave enough to be on youTube? :)

tmmycat

May 9th, 2008, 07:27 PM

Hey I have a question for the water-only people...

I tried it for 5 days and ended up with really matte, dull hair. Not greasy, just really dull. Does anyone know what causes that?

I was doing daily water washes, and also a daily vinegar rinse (leaving the vinegar rinse in my hair). the vinegar rinse was about a teaspoon of vinegar in a bowl of water ... so ... vinegar buildup maybe?? Or minerals from my water? i'm not sure what caused the dullness.

jessie58

May 9th, 2008, 07:33 PM

I get the dullness too Tmmycat, I think it might be sebum buildup. Vinegar rinses should always be rinsed out afterwards.
__________________________________________________ ________________________

I just checked my journal and I haven't used shampoo since April 29th, so that makes 10 days on WO so far and it's getting nicer and nicer by the day. I put a touch of leave in conditioner after I get out of the shower and squeeze the excess water out. Then a touch of Curl Keeper. It's thick looking and full and the curls are back again in full force.

I say this every time I go back to WO, why oh why do I keep using product when I know how nice WO makes my hair. Silly woman.

tmmycat

May 9th, 2008, 07:46 PM

jessie58

May 9th, 2008, 07:55 PM

Does the dullness go away eventually? I hope so. I liked WO because of how soft my hair was and how healthy my tips felt. but I missed my shine. I ended up doing back to CO for now but with fewer washes.

Edit: Hey, I stopped using shampoo on April 26! so we are really close :) My hair also loves not being shampooed. seems like the less I put in my hair, and the less I take out, the happier it is.

I guess I do remember that my hair was not as shiny as normal with WO from when I did it before. I don't seem to mind that though. I think the rest of the benefits outweigh the shiny, just washed look.

Maybe if you do a CO wash once a week, it will restore your shine.

tmmycat

May 9th, 2008, 08:05 PM

yeah initially I was thinking the exact same thing (the benefits outweighed having less shine). it still had a subtle sheen to it for the first 3-4 days. on the 5th it just looked like black yarn! so I think a weekly co-wash is a good idea ... I will try to do that. I might try rinsing the vinegar out too.

here's a picture of my hair when it was looking its best with WO! It felt so slippery and soft. I loved it!

http://bp0.blogger.com/_HKr7KFO6wXo/SB-i-3Do4uI/AAAAAAAAABg/0rhC4MqehrY/s1600/side-view.gif

jessie58

May 9th, 2008, 08:29 PM

Okay, where's the beef, er pic?

tmmycat

May 10th, 2008, 05:44 AM

that's odd... the picture showed up for me. but this forum is weird, sometimes I can't view pictures either. here is a link to it.

http://bp0.blogger.com/_HKr7KFO6wXo/SB-i-3Do4uI/AAAAAAAAABg/0rhC4MqehrY/s1600-h/side-view.gif
(http://bp0.blogger.com/_HKr7KFO6wXo/SB-i-3Do4uI/AAAAAAAAABg/0rhC4MqehrY/s1600-h/side-view.gif)

tmmycat

May 10th, 2008, 05:47 AM

I had a thought yesterday actually about the dullness... maybe I should try washing my pillows because it always seemed to increase in dullness overnight. I use microfiber pillows, haven't washed them in a few weeks, and surely that attracts a ton of dust. And since my hair was coated in a layer of sebum I'm sure all that dust was sticking to my hair. yuck!

jessie58

May 10th, 2008, 05:54 AM

Great hair pic, very healthy looking hair there.

Giving the pillows a wash may help with the dullness, it's worth a try although I think that the lack of shininess is usually a factor with WO, more sebum gives less shine.

ale

May 10th, 2008, 06:49 AM

I'm hitting one full month of water only, and I'm quite satisfied with it.
My routine is: water and massaging in the shower, turban tower to avoid dripping too much, bun abd forget about it. When dry (and when I'm not lazy), brush and boar bristle brush.
So far, it's still a little oily and it leaves buildup on the brush, but less than it was at the beginning.
I'm not using anything else than water, it's going to be a hardcore experiment.
It feels softer and thicker now.
I'll keep you updated.

freznow

May 10th, 2008, 10:16 AM

ATrixie

May 10th, 2008, 11:46 AM

Hmm... If your hair is fluffy & lovely, are you sure you wanna add the sebum ? :)

When lower parts (or ends) of my hair were very dry, it did seem to help some, to pull the sebum down, but if it's looking good as it is... hmm?
I've run out of dry hair now though ;)

I think the sebum does act a bit like 'glue'/'product' for split ends & such... at the moment I don't see any visible damage, though I know there was in the past... (but I didn't cut it off for experimenting reasons... :) I think it would be better to cut it off when I see it though..)

Sorry, what is APL? I'm still not familiar with all the acronyms...

I did quite some grooming yesterday, & the hair is a bit better (but doesn't stay in a bun on its own that well..:)) though still oily & somewhat stringy... I'm thinking it might be my consumption of oily food too (I'm suspecting pumpkinseed oil especially), & some stress & such, I don't eat any sweets with sugar these days... Do non-sugar (no sweeteners either) cookies count too? (to produce more oil) There was some oil & coconut flour & such in them...

I'm not sure if big-time full-scale scritching & massage of scalp & grooming then would improve or worsen things...

YAY for YouTube! I think it might indeed be fascinating to see NWers 'in action' - either talking about experiences & routines & such... Or just to see what others' hair looks like...
There are some updo guides on YouTube already, but some I watched included lots of hairspray or dangerous heavy weaponry, so it would be great to see some 'natural' guides to updos & haircare & such too!
Do tell if you manage to get the camera! :)

tmmycat

May 10th, 2008, 12:28 PM

one month is very impressive! I am curious, what was your hair like at the beginning of that experiment and what does it look like now?

jessie58

May 10th, 2008, 12:34 PM

one month is very impressive! I am curious, what was your hair like at the beginning of that experiment and what does it look like now?

Yes, I think I would also like to see more pictures of Ale's hair, you know, just for comparison sake. :D

My longest with using WO was 3 months and my hair was never more gorgeous. I had to break the cycle though because when I dyed my roots, the dye would not take. So then I went to washing once a month for dyeing with WO in between. I think I'm on my way back to using WO as much as I can for as long as I can.

pepperedmoth

May 10th, 2008, 12:41 PM

All right, folks, some questions- I'm at 5-6 weeks WO, and my hair seems finally to be going through a 'transition' of sorts. If I play with it long enough, my fingers pick up a greasy black something from the hair near my scalp. Yerch! I think this is just my increased sebum picking up dust . . . I think.

So far I've just been brushing more often with my BBB, and been more diligent about massaging in the shower, but I wondered if anyone else has experienced this, and what you do?

Also: I just moved in with my DBF, and our apartment has no shower, only a bathtub with one of those flexible showerheads on a hose. You might think, 'well, just stand up and shower!' but this is right out, because the sloping ceiling above makes standing in the bath right out.

I've been trying to massage with one hand while directing the spray with the other hand, but this is wildly inefficient. I've also drawn up baths and leant back in them until all my scalp was submerged and then scrubbing (is this a 'mermaid soak'?). Suffice to say, haircare in this bathtub is very difficult, especially since we pay for water, pay for the heating of the water, and are trying to conserve.

SO! Advice on getting rid of the black greasies WHILE in a difficult bathing situation?

jessie58

May 10th, 2008, 01:00 PM

Oh that is tough, without out a proper shower. Hmm. I guess there isn't much else you can do except the one handed head massage with the other hand holding the shower head.

If you are not adverse to using a little natural stuff in your hair, you could try a small amount of baking soda, diluted and just do a scalp scrub, followed by a vinegar rinse. This will of course set you back as far as WO is concerned but it will clean the scalp without harsh products and if you only use a little it shouldn't strip much of the sebum off the length.

Also a brown sugar scrub will freshen up the scalp and help clean up the sludge that has built up.

As for myself, I used to do a scalp oiling before bed with one of the recipes in the Essential Oils for Hair Loss and Shedding thread. It would completely clean up my scalp and it would rinse out nicely the next morning. Never made my head greasy but just the opposite, it cleaned my scalp.

freznow

May 10th, 2008, 03:44 PM

I'm happy about the fluffy, but the splits are really getting to me. I'm at the point where I'm willing to do a monthly or bimonthly cassia/catnip treatment, no matter how much I love NW.

And if I spread it down, it might be less inclined to make the top stringy! APL is arm pit length.

Whenever I eat buttered popcorn, my scalp gets extra greasy, but I just can't resist! :lol: Diet definitely plays a major portion in NW hair.

birthmarkie

May 10th, 2008, 07:23 PM

peppered moth, I was in the same situation. You can use the faucet and put your head under that for rinsing, rather than the shower head. I really do not recommend a mermaid soak, as people (including myself) have had bad results with that. The only time I did mermaid soaks where it did not have an adverse affect was when I used nearly ice-cold water (there was a summer heat-wave) and I also rinsed under the faucet in addition to that. You can also sit in the tub and use the showerhead while sitting. Hope that helps. It IS possible! You might require extra rinsing while you adjust, though.

trolleypup

May 10th, 2008, 09:42 PM

I've found that a strong spray of water helps a lot...esp with my fairly thick hair. Right now our shower has an assortment of heads, as well as two handhelds, one of which is my WO spray blaster.

tiny_teesha

May 10th, 2008, 11:40 PM

I was toying with the idea of WO....but my hair falls out if i don't keep my scalp grease free and lately i had a big shed so I don't i will start right now. I think i'll keep going with teas...and then progressively move into WO.
:)

pepperedmoth

May 11th, 2008, 10:53 AM

Thanks, Jessie and Birthmarkie! I thinkk what I am going to do is wash hair and body on alternate days. Today I put my hair up and hopped in the tub and washed all over; tomorrow I'll just kneel over the edge of the tub, direct the spray at my head, and deal with it like that.

Perhaps WO isn't the correct word for what I do; I use teas, the occasional ACV rinse, regular henna, and I also oil. But no soap or conditioner (or baking soda; it's a disaster in my hair).

After a month of WO, I got my first hair compliment in YEARS just yesterday. I was so happy! My hair was particularly shiny and bouncy and curly yesterday. Much nicer than it ever was with soap.

ETA: I meant to ask: why is it that so many people have difficulty with mermaid soaks? You'd think they'd work pretty well, and perhaps be less drying than rinsing . . . I found that mine left my hair a little more tangly than rinsing, but otherwise no difference.

birthmarkie

May 11th, 2008, 11:32 AM

ETA: I meant to ask: why is it that so many people have difficulty with mermaid soaks? You'd think they'd work pretty well, and perhaps be less drying than rinsing . . . I found that mine left my hair a little more tangly than rinsing, but otherwise no difference.

I'm not sure but it gave me terrible flakes and just general white crud. I think part of the problem is that it is difficult to get an actual rinse, since you are washing your hair in the same water that your hair has just deposited debris and stuff into. Like I said, though, for me cold water mermaid soak followed by a regular rinse worked okay.

Kirin

May 11th, 2008, 12:55 PM

I am not a WO but like reading along with this thread, i find it fascinating! I noticed the post on the hand held sprayer in the bath tub thing, and I may have an idea for you.

At home improvement stores in the bathroom section they have "hangers" for those to make them stationary shower heads. If you cant put nails in the wall some have fixatives that are removable. If your tub is right up against a wall, you can do that and angle the spray and "sit" while being showered on.

Or as an alternate, you could spray your hair kneld over outside the tub head in the tub, then wrap it up in a towel then take a bath?

I think the "still" water of the tub for mermaid soaks doesnt provide enough "virgin clean" water, as what you rinse out, is just staying in the water and re-deposited, such as bad effects of bathing and washing hair in bathwater.

ale

May 12th, 2008, 04:46 AM

tmmycat and jessie58,
I plan to make a pic update soon, I'm finishing (finishing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) my PhD thesis in these days and I'm a little busy right now...
My scalp is naturally quite greasy (my skin actually is, in general), and so I got oily roots and dry ends with shampoo; CO worked well instead, but it took forever to rinse out the conditioner.
Now the roots are a little oily but not so much, the hair is overall softer and it feels thicker. It looks a little darker, and tangles exactly as before.
I'm looking forward to see if the extra oiliness will go away, but I have a very greasy skin so I'm not sure about this. It isn't noticeable, anyway, at least if you don't touch my scalp.

ATrixie

May 13th, 2008, 06:40 AM

lol yeah, it's funny, how things you eat show up in your hair! :) I had no idea about popcorn! (Do you use butter to 'pop' it on or put it on the already popped corn?)

Yeah, the splits are probably gonna disappear for you if you do what I did - my ends actually look pretty great! :D

I've been doing more grooming, & the hair actually does look better, but it's still oily! (to about APL) It's softer & less stringy, but still far from ideal...

On a happier note, sis had consulted me on her (itchy) scalp issues as a 'hair expert' lol (she was thinking 'chamomile tea' & I said, yeah, try it. & said a vinegar rinse might help too)

It seems season changes seem to be affecting other people's hair & scalps too!!

I've been doing full-scalp massages, as it feels soo good!! :D (so maybe hence the oiliness too...)
I have some difficulties 'timing' the hair for when to look good - sometimes it looks best just before I go to sleep! lol

Maybe a 'hair diary' would be in order? (I already have a food/mood/activity journal, but have been slacking off on the hair issues... like writing down how my hair looks/feels like or stuff I do with it...)

For water rinses on NW/SO - are there any special tips? Do we have to do it differently than 'regular WO-ers'? longer/shorter time, or less/more water pressure? perhaps less pressure & water on the scalp & more on the hair length?

I know my hair was great the 1st day after a (very cold & long-term) WO, so-so 2nd day, then put-uppable.. (or similar to NW)... & then I went NW cause it was suggested it could be the only thing to stop over-active sebum production! :) It somewhat did calm down, though not totally... (the waxiness decreased big time, oiliness still here... Do I need a BBB?)

freznow

May 13th, 2008, 06:14 PM

I've been doing what you said, only a bit more lazily :silly: and I think it may be doing good. Too early to tell though. It does feel better though, but that may just be my hair loving the humidity.

A diary/journal/blog for this would be helpful, but I honestly don't think I would derive too much from it, all I can think of to post would be "massaged scalp today. Looks oily. Can't tell if it is oilier than yesterday or not." and I don't know how helpful that would be.

I don't know how a rinse would work differently for us. My last (and only rinse during my WO time) was just a quickie warm one in the shower and didn't do much except make my baby hairs stand up for the next few days :p I think if I really have to look nice/have my hair down for soemthing and it's not cooperating I'll end up doing a tea rinse and hoping that it'll work.

And my hair likes to look its best just before bed too! How annoying. Maybe during sleep it gets greasy? I've been thinking about getting a silk pillow case, maybe that would help...

karmela

May 13th, 2008, 10:41 PM

Hi everybody...

I'm so glad that this thread has been resurrected but I had to show all of you this link from the old thread which is fascinating...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=394226&in_page_id=1879 The survey took place in London so the water ( if they rinsed...I assume so but I'm unsure ) was hard.

I am one of the lucky ones thankfully...I've never loved my hair as much as when I went WO, using vinegar rinses sometimes since my water is hard and sometimes spritzing with a lavender-soft water spray...the first two weeks are usually pretty tough, in fact this time, it took my hair a week to get greasy and I thought I'd escaped the transition but no, the grease monsters came with a vengeance!

I am on day eight now and it's not too bad tied back. I know it will become really nice in just a few days so I'm waiting...

After the initial few greasy weeks it becomes really shiny and wavy with so much body that it looks like a 1940s Jane Russell style or something...it looks very tame and full of body and soft.

Pretty bad today though...I await a shimmering improvement, locks are rather too dull at the moment...dry and greasy all at once and a bit sticky. It'll be worth it though - I hope I encourage people here who are thinking of jumping off the wagon.
I am rinsing it every night for the first two weeks then less frequently....

Later: wow - just brushed my hair a lot and it is glistening...just a little lank! Wow!

Karmela

Hairytale

May 14th, 2008, 04:50 AM

Hello NW fellows! :floer: How are you all doing?

I'm currently changing my mind concerning NW/SO every day. One day I think "why don't I rinse? my hair looks awful!" and the other day I think "yayness! there's no better thing than NW!".
But I think I'm staying NW because I'm way too scared to be caught in the cycle of grease again. And I notice if I take a long shower, my looks freshly washed afterwards, perhaps due to the long exposion to humidity.

But what I wanted to ask: those who use a BBB, do you use one with short or long bristles? Mine has got short ones but I've got the feeling longer could be better. What would you suggest?

Thanks in advance and happy NW! :flower:

frizzinator

May 14th, 2008, 05:38 AM

Exactly how long are the bristles? The MP bbb has short and long combined, the longest of which is 18 mm. This is long enough to reach my scalp, but I have thin hair.

Hairytale

May 14th, 2008, 01:36 PM

The bristles of my BBB vary from 10mm to 15mm, most are 13mm or 14mm.
In some areas they just barely touch it and I feel as if I could well use more contact between bristles and scalp.

frizzinator

May 14th, 2008, 03:48 PM

If you want to really clean your scalp, a stiff bristled bbb might be the best choice. The large MP B1 has extra stiff bristles, which feel fabulous on the scalp when brushing.

During the winter, I started brushing only once every three weeks. Since I have not seen much of the powdery fine flaking, I don't need to brush as much.

NorthernDancer

May 15th, 2008, 10:42 AM

I have decided to try this water only thing.
I normally only shampoo my hair once a week, otherwise it's to dry and I have major flakes. So on Sunday (my normal wash day) I decided to try the baking soda / ACV wash and I finished with conditioner on my ends. At first I was really happy with my hair, it was soft and workable (it's normally not). But by tuesday it was WAY greesy. Equivilent to day 5 or 6 with shampooing. So I thought that maybe I didn't get it all the way clean, it was really greasy after all, so I did the BS/ACV/CO again last night (wednesday). All I can say is DRY, DRY, DRY! Now that I've spent most of the day playing with my hair the natural oils are starting to move down, but the ends are horrible. So that test didn't work.

Now I'm going to try WO. I think I'll still use conditioner on the ends, at least in the beginning. Being that my hair is about down to the end of my sholder blade I know it will take a while for the natural oil to reach that far and I'm not willing to have dry ends in the mean time.
I have two concerns. The thing I'm most concerned about is my bangs. I know they get greasier first (or show it more), so it will take some trial and error to get that to work. My second concern is that I'll find it hard to get used to washing my hair more often. I've been washing my hair once a week for many years. That will take some getting used to. But I guess I'll just have to get my lazy butt into the shower more often! :p

So count this as WO day one! Wish me luck!

freznow

May 16th, 2008, 08:27 PM

Hey all, just popping in to let you know that I'm *officially* not considering myself NW anymore. I got bored, what can I say? I want to experiment. *waves* see y'all intermittently, I'll probably be NW on and off for the next forever :silly:

tiny_teesha

May 20th, 2008, 04:55 AM

I'm toying with the idea...i'm going to slowly transistion.
I've moved from a harsh coneless shampoo to herbs. Then i cut out the astringent herbs and then i put them back for a special occasion.
I wash 2x a week. I think that if i start to shed ill have to keep up my washes. I will do it slowly so that i am not too oily and my hair falls out. I will be useing conditioner on my ends.
I have not done a WO wash yet....but soon hopefully! :)

Morag

May 20th, 2008, 06:16 AM

I am in week two of my first attempt at WO, and my hair (which is not terrifically long) has been pretty good - not greasy, not stuck down - but has had a funny kind of slightly sticky feel. I decided I could live with that because otherwise I was liking the effects. It amazes me how well my hair is doing when I am doing exactly the opposite of what I have been told all my life was best for it!

But yesterday! Oh my, I am so delighted! I rinsed the night before, and in the morning my hair was light, fluffy, and as shiny as it was with CO! I am completely floored. :thud:

But, of course, this morning I goofed it up by running my hands through my hair after cleaning my face with coconut oil. :o That works just fine when I use olive oil, but apparently the coconut oil is a tad too heavy. Oh well, it will sort itself out eventually...

tiny_teesha

May 21st, 2008, 07:00 AM

trolleypup

May 21st, 2008, 08:07 AM

tiny_teesha

May 22nd, 2008, 04:29 AM

Thank you trolleypup! i wash 2-3 times a week with herbs...so i guess on one of those washes i can make it a WO for a few months and then slowly progress. I have a wedding in a few weeks so i'm going to keep washing until then and then begin WO :)

Red_Wednesday

May 23rd, 2008, 02:44 PM

I have always thought about doing WO, but I'm a total cone head and I fear that my hair won't be happy at all with me if I take the plunge. What I want is hair that is less dry and has more shine, but I do have damage from previous dye and perming, so it seems the cones help keep some of that damage in check. Anyway, I'm glad you've started this thread, and I'll be watching it closely:).

birthmarkie

May 23rd, 2008, 06:45 PM

ATrixie

May 23rd, 2008, 06:54 PM

Freznow, yeah, experimenting can be tempting... But hopefully you'll pop in now & then, eh? :) & you've probably learnt quite a bit about your hair inbetween, no?

Surprisingly, I didn't WO my hair before the pre-wedding picknick after all, & just went there, hair up ;) (thoroughly combed though)
I didn't get hit on by any of the single guys, but then again there wasn't that big a selection of them anyway - No, wait, I did get hit on by one! lol /He was a bit 'under the influence' though & it was getting dark, so... hmm? - he was quite cute but too young anyway...;)/

Anyway, still NW, too lazy to do anything with my hair.. (& my back was troubling me a bit again...)

Frizzinator, that's interesting about BBB-ing only every 3 weeks in winter?!! Do you groom the hair with hands daily, or not even that? What is your winter routine then? Comb? Or - nothing, just put it up?

I'm thinking maybe I have massaged & groomed too much? (at times...-?) My ends are still kinda cool, but everything else is pretty oily lol /though not 'stiff' oily.../

Also, about BBBs... Are 'pet BBBs allowed'/okay...? (I kinda saw a link in a past post to a pet site with BBBs...:D) - I might find one of those somewhere here... (no big hopes though..)

Did/Do you use the BBB just for cleaning the scalp of flakes, or for getting rid of excess oil on the hair too? /question for everyone else too... :)/

Anyway, admiring all you ladies still doing it!!!:blossom:

frizzinator

May 23rd, 2008, 09:54 PM

ATrixie, I scritch, massage, preen and comb everyday. On rare occasions, I might miss a day.

I use the bbb to remove things from my hair; for the most part, I'm removing powdery fine flakes. It was never a big problem, but during the first four months of NW, I saw those flakes on my brush everyday. During these last 4 months of NW, I do not see the flakes on the brush, therefore, I brush once every 3 weeks.

Not using the brush has greatly reduced my shedding. The bbb moves sebum and it also removes some of it.

Hairytale

May 24th, 2008, 04:12 AM

I'm seriously considering to quit NW/SO. I can't remember a week during which I had none of those powdery fine flakes or during which I managed to remove them. The problem is I can remove some of my scalp, perhaps I could even remove all of them if I tried harder, but because my hair is sebumy, they cling to it and I can't remove them. They're too much to be removed one by one by hand and too small to be removed by BBBing.
Does anyone have an idea of how to fix that?

Another thing which bothers me is the level of greasiness of my hair. My hair looks really okay if put up, I think you can't even differentiate between my NW hair and 'cleaned' hair. But I am not able to wear it down or try some updos which sit very low or updos like braids or something similar.
That makes me torn between NW/SO, whose concept I like very much, and the variety of upos and ways to wear my hair. Especially since the latter was the reason I started growing my hair.

I know I sound very negative in my post, but I'd really appreciate any kind of answer, whether encouraging me to go on and perhaps even with a hint on how to manage my problems with NW or giving me the advice to stop NW.
(But it would be nice of you to post a reason for your statement so I can balance pros and cons! :flower:)
Of course you're welcome to just write what you want, I don't want to rule this thread or your answers!!

Thanks for reading my rants. :)

Morag

May 24th, 2008, 08:39 AM

Does anyone have an averaged lifline of what happens? Like eg- week 1- really oily, week 2- oil slowly diminishes, week 3- almost all oil gone, week 4- perfect bouncy hair. That was all made up by the way.
Also how often are the washes done? Daily? When hair is oily? Weekly???

Tiny_teesha, I'm new at this, but I can tell you that previously I was washing once a week with a poo bar for about a year (maybe 18 months?), then changed to CO twice a week for a couple of months, then decided to try WO. I'm in my third week of WO, and have not had a problem with oiliness at all. In fact, my hair is a bit dry right now and I am smoothing in a bit of oil every few days. Even with twice daily scalp massage I don't seem to be producing much sebum.

That said, I know that in my teens when I was washing once a day, my hair would have been a grease pit midway through the first week. I guess as Trolleypup says, it's very individual. :shrug:

Morag

May 24th, 2008, 09:04 AM

Interesting answers, thanks to everyone for offering input. I'm currently doing CWC using a very small amount of shampoo to fluff up my roots. It works well. I don't think I'm ever going to be brave enough to do WO. Sometimes I just feel there is a reason why everyone in the non-LHC world uses poo and dish. :confused:

Tangles (and I'm new at this, but so far ...) I find that my hair has far better root lift from massage and WO than it did with shampoo, with or without conditioner. I have had straight, limp hair all my life and now it is definitely not limp any more! I am completely amazed by this - it's counter to everything I had ever been told about hair health. I can't say yet whether WO will work for me over the long haul, but for right now, my results are far better than with anything else I've tried.

Hairbear

May 25th, 2008, 04:43 AM

I've been WO for the past 8-9 months and I'm beginning to have some doubts. I WO about twice a week and let it dry naturally. It actually looks quite good up(bun and braid) which is how I wear it most of the time, quite sleek. However, when I wear it down the roots look greasy and it sticks together at the front making it look like I'm thinning, if you get what I mean.

I use a BBB every day and scratch the scalp to loosen the sebum, but I just cannot get the front bits to look good. I am meticulous when it comes to keeping the BBB clean. I really don't want to go back to shampoo, as this makes my scalp itch, but cannot think of an alternative.

florenonite

May 25th, 2008, 04:58 AM

Hairbear

May 25th, 2008, 05:04 AM

You could try alternating a CO or shampoo bars with WO and see if that helps.

I did that prior to only WO. It didn't make a difference. I'm thinking of giving nettle rinses a try, as I have a load of nettles in my back garden.

frizzinator

May 25th, 2008, 08:39 PM

Hairytale, my experience indicates there are big differences between boar bristle brushes. Even within the Mason Pearson line, only their B1 Large Extra Stiff brush could scrape the flakes off my scalp. The other MP brushes I owned were not stiff enough to scrape the powdery fine flakes off.

The powdery fine flakes were nearly invisible, and only lasted for 4 months. I thought it may have been the winter weather which stopped the flaking, but I'm beginning to think the flaking may have been part of the transition.

I'm nearly at 9 months without water or anything else. My hair looks OK down, but not as good as it looks when it is up. I doubt I will ever wear my hair down again, not because of the way it looks, but because it is in the best condition it has ever been in my whole life. Wearing it up everyday makes it possible to not have to comb. I do comb it almost everyday, but my hair looks good even if I do not comb it. This is not possible if I wear it down. Plus, I have learned to love wearing it up.

I used to wear a french braid a lot, but for several years the frizzy hair poked out of my braid to the point of making me give up on braids. The way you describe how you don't like the way your hair looks in a low updo, is exactly how I would have described my hair during the first 4 months without water. Nowdays my hair is rarely greasy, but it happens after a day when I did not scritch, massage and preen.

I know you're tired of hearing me say those 3 words over and over again, but it is all that my hair demands. Maybe it is my imagination, but it seems like everytime someone in this thread would rinse their hair, they ended up with more greasy hair, which is the reason why they rinsed in the first place. I have not rinsed my hair in nearly 9 months, although I have been tempted. The idea of extending the period of bad looking hair is the only thing that stopped me. If my hair looks bad I scritch, massage and preen while I think about rinsing. Then I go to sleep and my hair looks good the next day. It may be boring and time consuming, but I think I'm listening to my hair and giving it what it wants.