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View Full Version : Clarifying vs chelating shampoo and the aftermath



Ablubox
August 26th, 2017, 05:47 AM
Now I've read enough to know that these terms are

1)used interchangeably,

Or distinguished clearly by statements such as

2a) A chelating shampoo is the product to go for if you're a swimmer or happen to live in a hard water area while the clarifying shampoo is for removing the product buildup from the surface of the scalp.

2b) A chelating shampoo should never be experimented with before trying a clarifying shampoo first as it's extremely potent.

Not sure which out of the three options to go with, I do know that my scalp and wavy hair are suffering from all the damages of hard water; in the shower it feels like I'm spilling gunk on my scalp and I need something to remove the build up.

I'm led to believe that post-wash is also a crucial stage and a conditioner must be used right after the shampoo or else you'll end up with a pile of thin straws on your head, I'd like to hear your suggestions and product recommendations in that regard and maybe your experiences if any with hard water and all that good stuff. Please write away :o

lapushka
August 26th, 2017, 06:19 AM
Basically, *any* sulfate shampoo can be a clarifying one. I would especially look at the Pantene volumizing shampoo, or the Pantene Aqua Light (if you can still get that in your country, it depends). They are good at this!

-Fern
August 26th, 2017, 06:37 AM
I'd say that your interpretation might be a little extreme. Don't stress. It's not going to ruin your hair, and I don't personally think chelating shampoos are exponentially harsher than clarifying shampoos.

The biggest reason in my mind to try clarifying first is cost. You can get Suave clarifying shampoo for $1 at most places. Chelating shampoos are a little pricier and harder to find, though in Texas (notorious for hard ground water), I have found swimmer's shampoo (https://www.walmart.com/ip/UltraSwim-Chlorine-Removal-Shampoo-7-Oz/16615971?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&wl13=2978&adid=22222222228000830258&wl0=&wl1=s&wl2=m&wl3=40843284032&wl4=pla-78656720552&wl5=9027208&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=local&wl12=16615971&wl13=2978&veh=sem) at Walmart before for $5 or $6.

And I do recommended conditioning after clarifying... But I always condition after shampooing anyhow.

Ablubox
August 26th, 2017, 07:36 AM
Basically, *any* sulfate shampoo can be a clarifying one. I would especially look at the Pantene volumizing shampoo, or the Pantene Aqua Light (if you can still get that in your country, it depends). They are good at this!


This might be accurate, I remember getting straw hair from commercial shampoos like sunsilk which I used once at my friend's house, like it wiped everything from my scalp then I rushed home and rinsed my hair with vinegar and baking soda and the results were really good, So
actually sulfates are needed for this purpose and don't have to be avoided?

Ablubox
August 26th, 2017, 07:45 AM
I'd say that your interpretation might be a little extreme. Don't stress. It's not going to ruin your hair, and I don't personally think chelating shampoos are exponentially harsher than clarifying shampoos.

The biggest reason in my mind to try clarifying first is cost. You can get Suave clarifying shampoo for $1 at most places. Chelating shampoos are a little pricier and harder to find, though in Texas (notorious for hard ground water), I have found swimmer's shampoo (https://www.walmart.com/ip/UltraSwim-Chlorine-Removal-Shampoo-7-Oz/16615971?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&wl13=2978&adid=22222222228000830258&wl0=&wl1=s&wl2=m&wl3=40843284032&wl4=pla-78656720552&wl5=9027208&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=local&wl12=16615971&wl13=2978&veh=sem) at Walmart before for $5 or $6.

And I do recommended conditioning after clarifying... But I always condition after shampooing anyhow.

I'm very picky when it comes to hair products actually it wasn't until now that I'm reconsidering my old conviction that all the problems I'm having with my hair (aside from the hard) water are due to the chemicals commercial shampoos use in their recipes, and If I was to have anything close to healthy hair I have to go completely organic, now all this indifference I'm seeing in the advice I'm being given got me thinking, may be my worst enemy aren't the chemicals, rather my hair care routine. Thank you for clearing the misconceptions this should make my hunt easier :o

Ablubox
August 26th, 2017, 07:51 AM
Basically, *any* sulfate shampoo can be a clarifying one. I would especially look at the Pantene volumizing shampoo, or the Pantene Aqua Light (if you can still get that in your country, it depends). They are good at this!

So you don't recommend I invest in a pricier shampoo? maybe leave that for the conditioner and leave in and oil?

-Fern
August 26th, 2017, 08:32 AM
I'm very picky when it comes to hair products actually it wasn't until now that I'm reconsidering my old conviction that all the problems I'm having with my hair (aside from the hard) water are due to the chemicals commercial shampoos use in their recipes, and If I was to have anything close to healthy hair I have to go completely organic, now all this indifference I'm seeing in the advice I'm being given got me thinking, may be my worst enemy aren't the chemicals, rather my hair care routine. Thank you for clearing the misconceptions this should make my hunt easier :o

Honestly, everyone's hair is different. Let me emphasize that again, haha... Some people have hair that is more porous, or less porous, and some people have fine hair, I have coarse hair... Some people's scalp produces a lot of oil/sebum, or is sensitive to oils, or prone to SD, etc etc etc.

So for me, personally, I have found that the key is:
1) Keep my scalp happy. A clean, healthy scalp will go a long ways. I usually wash my hair every three days in summer, four in the winter. Some people get best results washing daily. Some people get best results washing weekly. Do what works for your scalp.
2) Keep my hair happy. This is secondary to keeping my scalp happy, but I also find that what my hair needs varies by the season (largely due to ambient humidity). My coarse hair is on the porous side, so I condition often and well, and I lock it in with oils. If my mom did that, her fine hair would be greasy and weighed down. Experiment to find the happy balance for your hair. We are happy to help with that!

I have never seen a dramatic difference with my hair based on the product I use, though some do work better for me than others. I have tried conventional products, sulfate free, paraben free, cone free... And by and large, my hair acts the same if the rest of my routine is the same. However, I have seen dramatic differences with my hair based on my care routine and how I handle it.

-Fern
August 26th, 2017, 08:42 AM
Sorry I edited that about fifteen times... Typing on a phone... But if you would like to share your current hair care routine, we might be able to give advice. And have you had a chance to figure out what hairtype (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=116252) you have?

Ablubox
August 26th, 2017, 08:43 AM
I have never seen a dramatic difference with my hair based on the product I use, though some do work better for me than others. I have tried conventional products, sulfate free, paraben free, cone free... And by and large, my hair acts the same if the rest of my routine is the same. However, I have seen dramatic differences with my hair based on my care routine and how I handle it.

This, So the routine plays the biggest role, I've been literally thinking the opposite for a very long time, I thought that the product is the most important thing and that If I don't have access to the perfect one I shouldn't even bother, I hope you're right and I see good results, I'm gonna link some a couple of shampoos later today and ask for your opinion thank you :o

Obsidian
August 26th, 2017, 08:49 AM
To answer you question about terms.
2a) A chelating shampoo is the product to go for if you're a swimmer or happen to live in a hard water area while the clarifying shampoo is for removing the product buildup from the surface of the scalp.

Chelating shampoo isn't bad and isn't something to be afraid to use. I use mine every 3 or 4 washes.

Sulfates are not evil like some people think they are. Unless you have a allergy or some other reaction, you have no reason to stay away from sulfates. Clarifying and chelating shampoos both have sulfates, they are needed for deep cleaning.

If you've been use more natural or sulfate free, you probably have a lot of build up along with the mineral build up. Get a good chelating shampoo, they will also clarify.
https://www.amazon.com/Joico-K-Pak-Clarifying-Shampoo-Ounce/dp/B00DV7NWP4/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1503758695&sr=8-1&keywords=joico%2Bchelating%2Bshampoo&th=1

can you get herbal essence shampoo and conditioners in your county? If so, get the hello hydration shampoo and conditioner, they are great for curls.

For a leave in, I really like this
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Herbal-Essences-Bio-Renew-Repair-Argan-Oil-of-Morocco-Oil-Infused-Crme-5-1-fl-oz-Spout-Top-Can/163908664?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227067974867&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=172589333974&wl4=pla-277346881413&wl5=9029654&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=163908664&wl13=&veh=sem

I use either almond oil or argan oil. Both are nice but I think I like the argan a bit more, it seems to absorb into my hair better so its not greasy.

Chromis
August 26th, 2017, 08:57 AM
I'm very picky when it comes to hair products actually it wasn't until now that I'm reconsidering my old conviction that all the problems I'm having with my hair (aside from the hard) water are due to the chemicals commercial shampoos use in their recipes, and If I was to have anything close to healthy hair I have to go completely organic, now all this indifference I'm seeing in the advice I'm being given got me thinking, may be my worst enemy aren't the chemicals, rather my hair care routine. Thank you for clearing the misconceptions this should make my hunt easier :o

Some of us like full "natural" routines (I am one of these), some people like sulphates/silicones, some like a mix, and a few like using water-only. You can find people with just about every routine and people who have hair that likes whatever it is they are doing. No one routine seems to work for allll the people.

Ablubox
August 26th, 2017, 08:59 AM
Sorry I edited that about fifteen times... Typing on a phone... But if you would like to share your current hair care routine, we might be able to give advice. And have you had a chance to figure out what hairtype (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=116252) you have?

Nvm I tend to edit my words very often too which is part of the reason I hate twitter :o
Not in technical terms I don't but I do have a pair of photos if that would help here's the link,

https://imgur.com/a/hdDnM


I'm currently just using a sulfate free shampoo and conditioner by the bodyshop.(Rainforest lineup) nothing special, no oils no leave in conditioners, which I know is pretty stupid since it's like a requirement for wavy hair.

Ablubox
August 26th, 2017, 09:51 AM
To answer you question about terms.
2a) A chelating shampoo is the product to go for if you're a swimmer or happen to live in a hard water area while the clarifying shampoo is for removing the product buildup from the surface of the scalp.

Chelating shampoo isn't bad and isn't something to be afraid to use. I use mine every 3 or 4 washes.

Sulfates are not evil like some people think they are. Unless you have a allergy or some other reaction, you have no reason to stay away from sulfates. Clarifying and chelating shampoos both have sulfates, they are needed for deep cleaning.


I've heard good things about joico-k pak unfortunately it doesn't ship to my country which is okay, Since based on your advice I know now that I don't need any sort of magic potion to clean my scalp and hair, and I do have access to herbal essences and many others, I want to link some other brands I have access to, and ask for your opinion.

https://www.thebodyshop.com/hair/shampoo/ginger-scalp-care-shampoo/p/p002450

Unusually this contains sulfates, maybe because it's targeted towards a deeper cleaning like you said, and this,


https://www.cultbeauty.co.uk/sachajuan-normalizing-shampoo.html

Ablubox
August 26th, 2017, 09:59 AM
Some of us like full "natural" routines (I am one of these), some people like sulphates/silicones, some like a mix, and a few like using water-only. You can find people with just about every routine and people who have hair that likes whatever it is they are doing. No one routine seems to work for allll the people.


If I had the water and the means, I'll opt for natural as well, I'll always like the fact that you can spell the ingredients in your ingredient list without fumbling for the first 10 times, :o but what I discovered is that I may not need to have 100% organic products to not have a dead scalp and hair, and I should focuse more importantly on the way I handle my hair

Obsidian
August 26th, 2017, 10:23 AM
I've heard good things about joico-k pak unfortunately it doesn't ship to my country which is okay, Since based on your advice I know now that I don't need any sort of magic potion to clean my scalp and hair, and I do have access to herbal essences and many others, I want to link some other brands I have access to, and ask for your opinion.

https://www.thebodyshop.com/hair/shampoo/ginger-scalp-care-shampoo/p/p002450

Unusually this contains sulfates, maybe because it's targeted towards a deeper cleaning like you said, and this,


https://www.cultbeauty.co.uk/sachajuan-normalizing-shampoo.html

They look like nice enough daily shampoos. They won't chelate though and I think that's what you need to focus on finding. What country are you in? That would really help us with product recommendations.

renia22
August 26th, 2017, 10:25 AM
Here are a few good articles on clarifying. To clarify, a shampoo should contain cleansing agents, but not ingredients that have potential for build up (non water soluble silicones and polyquats for example). My favorite is probably Paul Mitchell shampoo 3 (clarifying and chelating). I personally don't find it to be "harsh" and I use it quite often because of our well water:

http://thebeautybrains.com/2009/03/how-do-clarifying-shampoos-work/

http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2016/03/hard-water-and-your-hair.html?m=1

http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2016/07/shampoos-which-remove-product-build-up.html?m=1

Ablubox
August 26th, 2017, 02:16 PM
They look like nice enough daily shampoos. They won't chelate though and I think that's what you need to focus on finding. What country are you in? That would really help us with product recommendations.

I'm gonna pretend I don't suffer from insecurity phobia and say that mightn't help, since i have acess to a lot of brands more than I can count besides I think it's time I do all the work, I'm gonna keep sending links for shampoos and hopefully with your help we'll find the best one before the holidays :o

How about this

https://www.amazon.com/PHILIP-Volumizing-Clarifying-Shampoo-Peppermint/dp/B000X1HNUG

And this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Phyto-Phytoneutre-Clarifying-Detox-Shampoo-x/dp/B009QZ8ED0

This

https://www.birchbox.com/product/9956

Ablubox
August 26th, 2017, 02:22 PM
Here are a few good articles on clarifying. To clarify, a shampoo should contain cleansing agents, but not ingredients that have potential for build up (non water soluble silicones and polyquats for example). My favorite is probably Paul Mitchell shampoo 3 (clarifying and chelating). I personally don't find it to be "harsh" and I use it quite often because of our well water

Thank you for the feedback and links, these were pretty informative though different, I feel like hair care is a whole world in itself, pretty overwhelming if you think about it, but things should get easier with experience :o I've read good reviews about that shampoo, it's a good pick and I agree you're trying to remove buildup you don't want to add more stuff in there in the process

lapushka
August 26th, 2017, 02:24 PM
So you don't recommend I invest in a pricier shampoo? maybe leave that for the conditioner and leave in and oil?

No, like I said, a basic Pantene shampoo will do, preferably the volumizing one as that is the most stripping. It's as simple as that. But you can shop around, if that's for some reason not to your liking. ;)

Ablubox
August 26th, 2017, 03:03 PM
No, like I said, a basic Pantene shampoo will do, preferably the volumizing one as that is the most stripping. It's as simple as that. But you can shop around, if that's for some reason not to your liking. ;)

I don't doubt that, so basically now in this situation the most stripping is the best option, Perfect :) so then should I look for an especially hydrating conditioner for post wash :o

renia22
August 26th, 2017, 03:26 PM
Thank you for the feedback and links, these were pretty informative though different, I feel like hair care is a whole world in itself, pretty overwhelming if you think about it, but things should get easier with experience :o I've read good reviews about that shampoo, it's a good pick and I agree you're trying to remove buildup you don't want to add more stuff in there in the process

Yeah the Beauty Brains are chemists/ scientists who debunk beauty myths, and they tend to be pretty straight forward. The science- y hair blog gets really into types of build up and various cleansing agents and ingredients and gets very detailed. Both do give good info and don't make money off of anyone pushing nonsense, trendy products, so I like to see what they have to say before buying anything.

As far as the shampoos you listed, you really don't have to spend that much money unless you really want to try something. The Suave Daily Clarifying that was mentioned is pretty popular. There's also Prell shampoo, Tresemme Deep Cleansing, and Neutrogena Anti- Residue shampoos. I'd go with one of those, or something meant for clarifying. I disagree with the advice that any sulfate shampoo is clarifying, most "daily use" type of shampoos do contain non water soluble polyquays that you personally may or may not be sensitive to build up to, which is what makes those formulas suitable for frequent use. People who are sensitive to polyquat build up still need to clarify once in a while. Many popular clarifying shampoos have been tweaked over the years anyways, so they aren't as drying as they used to be. I can use any of the ones I mentioned with no issue, but it's usually an individual thing and a matter of preference. I like to read reviews before buying. Good luck, hope you find one you like.

lapushka
August 26th, 2017, 03:43 PM
I don't doubt that, so basically now in this situation the most stripping is the best option, Perfect :) so then should I look for an especially hydrating conditioner for post wash :o

Yes, look for conditioners or masks for dry, damaged hair; those are the most moisturizing on the market. It's not because your hair is damaged or dry or anything. It's just the formula is the best after a more drying shampoo. That's how I do it too.

Ablubox
August 27th, 2017, 12:57 AM
As far as the shampoos you listed, you really don't have to spend that much money unless you really want to try something. The Suave Daily Clarifying that was mentioned is pretty popular. There's also Prell shampoo, Tresemme Deep Cleansing, and Neutrogena Anti- Residue shampoos. I'd go with one of those, or something meant for clarifying. I disagree with the advice that any sulfate shampoo is clarifying, most "daily use" type of shampoos do contain non water soluble polyquays that you personally may or may not be sensitive to build up to, which is what makes those formulas suitable for frequent use. People who are sensitive to polyquat build up still need to clarify once in a while. Many popular clarifying shampoos have been tweaked over the years anyways, so they aren't as drying as they used to be. I can use any of the ones I mentioned with no issue, but it's usually an individual thing and a matter of preference. I like to read reviews before buying. Good luck, hope you find one you like.

Good to have a little background, so they're reliable in that sense, yeah I do get carried away and tend to go overboard with hair products but It's justified I guess when your scalp is in a really really bad state for quiet some time, you start to think you need something *special*.. Okay since I'm not gonna be using the chelating shampoo regularly do you think getting another shampoo for more frequent use is a good idea like the anti-danfruff shampoo I linked, what's your hair type if you don't mind me asking, just wanna know cus I have wavy hair and I believe that people with less wavy hair or straight hair can get away with using many products which wavy haired people can't :o

Ablubox
August 27th, 2017, 01:01 AM
Yes, look for conditioners or masks for dry, damaged hair; those are the most moisturizing on the market. It's not because your hair is damaged or dry or anything. It's just the formula is the best after a more drying shampoo. That's how I do it too.

And I will do just that. :o

lapushka
August 27th, 2017, 04:27 AM
And I will do just that. :o

Glad to help. In fact, I clarified today with my Pantene Clarifying shampoo (transparent bottle, navy cap and discontinued). It felt stripping all right, and even the good and thick conditioners didn't quite touch the dryness. I had a few tangles after washing, but nothing I couldn't deal with.

Ablubox
August 27th, 2017, 04:58 AM
I had a few tangles after washing, but nothing I couldn't deal with.

This is what I'm talking about, you don't face much trouble with your products, even if one works less good than the other, may be it's because you know what to look for in a product and what suits you best, :o me on the other have had a bad scalp condition since I started growing my hair out two and a half years ago. Do you suggest I buy a daily scalp shampoo along with the clarifying shampoo? I've had a very bad experience a with sulfate free shampoo, my hair smelled bad and felt terrible even right after washing my hair with it, it had a lot of protein in it so I assumed I had protein sensitive hair, that's how my hate for checmicals in shampoos evolved.

Ablubox
August 27th, 2017, 07:31 AM
I couldn't wait any more to clarify my hair, So I added two tablespoons of baking soda in a bottle of water plus a few drops of peppermint oil. I rinsed my hair with hot water and then added the mixture, immediately I felt like a weight has been lifted off my head and my scalp took a breath of relief, I raised my hand to to touch my hair and make sure it hasn't fallen off my head :) . My hair felt squeaky clean, I figured I need to condition it now or it'll dry out quickly, added two tablespoons of vinegar in a bottle with few drops of conditioner and rinsed my hair again. So good, you were all right it was never a matter of length, I'm gonna start taking better care of my hair from now on :) and post updates ofcourse :o

renia22
August 27th, 2017, 08:42 AM
Good to have a little background, so they're reliable in that sense, yeah I do get carried away and tend to go overboard with hair products but It's justified I guess when your scalp is in a really really bad state for quiet some time, you start to think you need something *special*.. Okay since I'm not gonna be using the chelating shampoo regularly do you think getting another shampoo for more frequent use is a good idea like the anti-danfruff shampoo I linked, what's your hair type if you don't mind me asking, just wanna know cus I have wavy hair and I believe that people with less wavy hair or straight hair can get away with using many products which wavy haired people can't :o

Mine's wavy (2C) and fine, we have well water, and I live in the NE in the US so the climate is frequently changing. On my hair I do better with "conventional" products for my hair type, I'm not crazy about any "sulfate free" that I've tried, and I generally don't like oils or butters in my conditioners (unless it's maybe one lighter one further down on the ingredient list). After tons of experimenting, that's basically what I went back to, just regular ol' drugstore stuff :)

Ligeia Noire
August 27th, 2017, 10:16 AM
I clarify simply with suave daily clarifying and it does its job well. I chelate with Malibu, it's pricey but it's very effective. It really dries out my hair. It does, a lot, I always follow up with a deep conditioning mask. I hate chelating. But then again my water is very hard. I use a shower filter which helps immensely too. Also, I used to use Pantene detox to cleanse and I loved it. I changed because Pantene tends to not do anything about my flaky scalp but I want to go back to it. My hair felt clean, smelled minty and it was SOFT!
I've never stopped using their conditioners anyway :p
But yeah I really loved the detox line and now that I know that they chelate a bit too I might change to that because I have a water filter, therefore, I might not need something as hardcore as Malibu, let's see ;)
hair, the more you do for it, the more it hates you.

renia22
August 27th, 2017, 12:02 PM
^ I found the same thing with the Malibu. That and the Kinky Curly one, both use Sodium C14-16 Olefin, and both were way harsher and more stripping than any of the "regular" sulfate clarifying ones I've tried. The Pantene Damage Detox is getting hard to find, I love that shampoo too, and the conditioner is my favorite Pantene conditioner.

Ligeia Noire
August 27th, 2017, 01:07 PM
Well Malibu is chelating so it will be harsher than any sls shampoo. Dont tell me the Pantene detox is getting discontinued, damn, I hope not. Was so excited... God damn corporations.

Ablubox
August 27th, 2017, 02:07 PM
Mine's wavy (2C) and fine, we have well water, and I live in the NE in the US so the climate is frequently changing. On my hair I do better with "conventional" products for my hair type, I'm not crazy about any "sulfate free" that I've tried, and I generally don't like oils or butters in my conditioners (unless it's maybe one lighter one further down on the ingredient list). After tons of experimenting, that's basically what I went back to, just regular ol' drugstore stuff :)

2 days ago I'd never dare imagine a curly hair with commercial products, I was so wrong :) Well water is hard water too right.


^ I found the same thing with the Malibu. That and the Kinky Curly one, both use Sodium C14-16 Olefin, and both were way harsher and more stripping than any of the "regular" sulfate clarifying ones I've tried. The Pantene Damage Detox is getting hard to find, I love that shampoo too, and the conditioner is my favorite Pantene conditioner.

So your hair dries out from harsh shampoos too So did you just get used to it dry or you use a moisturizer or a leave in conditioner and that negates the dryness from the shamoo :o what I mean to ask is do you compromise? and are you happy with your hair?

Ablubox
August 27th, 2017, 02:16 PM
I clarify simply with suave daily clarifying and it does its job well. I chelate with Malibu, it's pricey but it's very effective. It really dries out my hair. It does, a lot, I always follow up with a deep conditioning mask. I hate chelating. But then again my water is very hard. I use a shower filter which helps immensely too. Also, I used to use Pantene detox to cleanse and I loved it. I changed because Pantene tends to not do anything about my flaky scalp but I want to go back to it. My hair felt clean, smelled minty and it was SOFT!
I've never stopped using their conditioners anyway :p

Do you apply your conditioning mask while your hair is wet before you get out of the shower? And does it negate the dryness of the shampoo? If So that means having dry hair from a harsh shampoo is not so bad as long as you've cleansed your hair, and as long as you're using enough moisturizers afterwards, or you sacrifice a not so clean scalp and not so dry hair for a squeaky clean and dry hair? I do you use leave in conditioners as well ? Lucky you, :) nothing beats a water filter for hard water I can only imagine the relief thatll give me but I'll have to work around it for the time being :o

Corvana
August 27th, 2017, 02:21 PM
I couldn't wait any more to clarify my hair, So I added two tablespoons of baking soda in a bottle of water plus a few drops of peppermint oil. I rinsed my hair with hot water and then added the mixture, immediately I felt like a weight has been lifted off my head and my scalp took a breath of relief, I raised my hand to to touch my hair and make sure it hasn't fallen off my head :) . My hair felt squeaky clean, I figured I need to condition it now or it'll dry out quickly, added two tablespoons of vinegar in a bottle with few drops of conditioner and rinsed my hair again. So good, you were all right it was never a matter of length, I'm gonna start taking better care of my hair from now on :) and post updates ofcourse :o

Oh goodness! Please don't use baking soda ;A; It's your hair, of course, and you can do as you'd like, but baking soda will break your hair. It's super alkaline, and the only way to make it not a level 9 (water is about 7, and your hair is 4!), is to put like a tablespoon into 20 cups of water and then take a teaspoon of that and put it in a cup of water.

But its alkalinity will destroy your hair from the inside! You should be fine with just once, of course, but I personally advise (as does many others here) to not use baking soda in your hair. Here's (http://blog.kanelstrand.com/2014/01/baking-soda-destroyed-my-hair.html?m=1) an article about it! But here's a good quote from that article that really explained to me how bad baking soda is for hair:


By washing my hair with baking soda twice a week for the past 3 years I have pretty much put it through the chemical process of dyeing. Twice a week.

...

Extremely alkaline solutions like baking soda cause the disulfide bonds between keratin protein molecules to break down and can eventually dissolve the protein completely resulting in a very damaged hair. Highly alkaline solutions such as baking soda make your hair soft and manageable BUT that is really the disulfide bonds in your internal hair structure being weakened by the alkaline solution.

Ablubox
August 27th, 2017, 02:36 PM
Oh goodness! Please don't use baking soda ;A; It's your hair, of course, and you can do as you'd like, but baking soda will break your hair. It's super alkaline, and the only way to make it not a level 9 (water is about 7, and your hair is 4!), is to put like a tablespoon into 20 cups of water and then take a teaspoon of that and put it in a cup of water.

But its alkalinity will destroy your hair from the inside! You should be fine with just once, of course, but I personally advise (as does many others here) to not use baking soda in your hair.



Hehe, thank you for the heads up, I remember those, I was never thinking of using this daily or weekly but I was indeed just thinking whether I should use this method permanently every time I get a buildup or not :) but now I won't :o but I had to do it this time, couldn't stand my scalp and hair anymore, my head feels so light now in comparison and incase you're wondering, yes my hair is dry and dead atm but it's clean for the first time in ..I actually lost count, now I'm sure it's a matter of handling and will only choose the type of products you guys recommend :o if this is how my hair is gonna feel after a round of clarifying shampoo, I better have a tonne of moisturizers next time I try it in hand, well not a tonne just enough to not look like I've Pulverized my hair. :o

Ligeia Noire
August 27th, 2017, 02:48 PM
Do you apply your conditioning mask while your hair is wet before you get out of the shower? And does it negate the dryness of the shampoo? If So that means having dry hair from a harsh shampoo is not so bad as long as you've cleansed your hair, and as long as you're using enough moisturizers afterwards, or you sacrifice a not so clean scalp and not so dry hair for a squeaky clean and dry hair? I do you use leave in conditioners as well ? Lucky you, :) nothing beats a water filter for hard water I can only imagine the relief that give me but I'll have to work around it for the time being :o

I just washed it with Malibu a couple of hours ago actually :) so what I do is I let the shampoo sit while I get soapy and shave and then wash it off, I gentle bring my length over one shoulder and apply a mask, usually it is an smt (honey, aloe and conditioner with a drop or two of castor oil), I slather this on my hair, ears down, a good good amount, I can feel my hair really unmanageable because it is stripped of everything, so I do not comb or try to separate strands, I put it up, twirling, and secure it with claw clips, cover it with a shower cap and then a towel or a beanie and let it sit for as much as I can, minimum half an hour and then wash it off with cool to cold water and yes it is no longer dry, so I only get this feeling when I use clarifying or chelating shampoos, I do apply a silicone serum after I wash to help me detangle and trap the moisture in as I live in a very dry climate but I always do that no matter what. Before this and the shower head filter my hair was a frizzy mess and dry no matter what kind of deep conditioning masks or acv rinses I did... now the difference is astounding.

Obsidian
August 27th, 2017, 03:02 PM
I couldn't wait any more to clarify my hair, So I added two tablespoons of baking soda in a bottle of water plus a few drops of peppermint oil. I rinsed my hair with hot water and then added the mixture, immediately I felt like a weight has been lifted off my head and my scalp took a breath of relief, I raised my hand to to touch my hair and make sure it hasn't fallen off my head :) . My hair felt squeaky clean, I figured I need to condition it now or it'll dry out quickly, added two tablespoons of vinegar in a bottle with few drops of conditioner and rinsed my hair again. So good, you were all right it was never a matter of length, I'm gonna start taking better care of my hair from now on :) and post updates ofcourse :o

You need to use conditioner properly, especially after a harsh treatment like baking soda. Use conditioner straight from the bottle, saturate your hair with it and let it sit for 5-10 minutes before rinsing it out. A few drops in water really isn't going to help.

lapushka
August 27th, 2017, 03:29 PM
This is what I'm talking about, you don't face much trouble with your products, even if one works less good than the other, may be it's because you know what to look for in a product and what suits you best, :o me on the other have had a bad scalp condition since I started growing my hair out two and a half years ago. Do you suggest I buy a daily scalp shampoo along with the clarifying shampoo? I've had a very bad experience a with sulfate free shampoo, my hair smelled bad and felt terrible even right after washing my hair with it, it had a lot of protein in it so I assumed I had protein sensitive hair, that's how my hate for checmicals in shampoos evolved.

I have a scalp condition as well. I have seborrheic dermatitis. What do you have? I can't go sulfate-free or CO-wash due to the SD. If your condition is under control, you can probably wash with any sulfate. Or switch it up, it's up to you. :) You know what your scalp responds to. What have you been doing all this time, then?

I also would stop using BS asap! It's super alkaline and not meant for hair. It's up to you, but I would not recommend it, especially not with a scalp condition.

Ablubox
August 27th, 2017, 03:48 PM
I just washed it with Malibu a couple of hours ago actually :) so what I do is I let the shampoo sit while I get soapy and shave and then wash it off, I gentle bring my length over one shoulder and apply a mask, usually it is an smt (honey, aloe and conditioner with a drop or two of castor oil), I slather this on my hair, ears down, a good good amount, I can feel my hair really unmanageable because it is stripped of everything, so I do not comb or try to separate strands, I put it up, twirling, and secure it with claw clips, cover it with a shower cap and then a towel or a beanie and let it sit for as much as I can, minimum half an hour and then wash it off with cool to cold water and yes it is no longer dry, so I only get this feeling when I use clarifying or chelating shampoos, I do apply a silicone serum after I wash to help me detangle and trap the moisture in as I live in a very dry climate but I always do that no matter what.
Meanwhile, I poured a baking soda mixture on my head followed by 2-3 drops of conditioner and let it sit for no less than 2 minutes :o .. Learnt a lot from this, thank you for Sharing :)


Before this and the shower head filter my hair was a frizzy mess and dry no matter what kind of deep conditioning masks or acv rinses I did... now the difference is astounding.

This is not very promising, I hope I can manage at least some level of both hygiene and moisture with hard water until I can rid of it :)

Ablubox
August 27th, 2017, 03:51 PM
You need to use conditioner properly, especially after a harsh treatment like baking soda. Use conditioner straight from the bottle, saturate your hair with it and let it sit for 5-10 minutes before rinsing it out. A few drops in water really isn't going to help.

I believe you,:o was so fixtated on using small amounts of chemicals that I forgot i had just effectively bleached my hair, I promise to follow your advice if i get a second chance :)

lapushka
August 27th, 2017, 04:00 PM
Meanwhile, I poured a baking soda mixture on my head followed with 2-3 drops of conditioner and let it sit for no less than 2 minutes :o .. Learnt a lot from this, thank you for Sharing :)



This is not very promising, I hope I can manage at least some level of both hygiene and moisture with hard water until I can rid of it :)

I'm sorry, but are you sure you meant 2 to 3 "drops" of conditioner? I'm pretty sure you can't eek out conditioner in drops...

Ablubox
August 27th, 2017, 04:11 PM
I have a scalp condition as well. I have seborrheic dermatitis. What do you have? I can't go sulfate-free or CO-wash due to the SD. If your condition is under control, you can probably wash with any sulfate. Or switch it up, it's up to you. :) You know what your scalp responds to. What have you been doing all this time, then?

I also would stop using BS asap! It's super alkaline and not meant for hair. It's up to you, but I would not recommend it, especially not with a scalp condition.

Yeah I just used it out of desperation as a last resort, won't use it after i get my products, it did clean my hair tho :) and pulverise it :o.. You do too :& what do you do to fight it? I don't know it's medical name, never got it diagnosed. It might be the same as yours, it involves irritation, bad odour and a a tonne of snow flakes glued to the scalp's surface. Not sure if it's chronic or not, but I do know that it's not really visible to others so I don't have to hide at home because of it. Well It only started when I grew my hair, and back then I was only used to using shampoos with out any conditioning so when I saw how dry my hair was after a wash i quickly blamed the commercial shampoos then ironically a sulfate free shampoo packed with protein called hanz de fuko (along with the usual killer-dryness )actually made my scalp smell after each use, So I swore I'd never use a product with chemicals again. Then the notion "nothing's gonna work for you as long as you're washing your hair with hard water" found it's way to my head, and you know the rest of the story :o

Ablubox
August 27th, 2017, 04:15 PM
I'm sorry, but are you sure you meant 2 to 3 "drops" of conditioner? I'm pretty sure you can't eek out conditioner in drops...

You're right I can't, but I did try my best to make them as close in size to a drop as possible, I'm concise like that :o

lapushka
August 27th, 2017, 04:22 PM
You're right I can't, but I did try my best to make them as close in size to a drop as possible, I'm concise like that :o

Yes, but also what I meant is... why on earth... what makes you think 2/3 drops is even enough? You need moisture. Wavy/curly hair needs moisture, and plenty of it, so that's not going to cut it, obviously. :)

Ablubox
August 27th, 2017, 04:24 PM
Well Malibu is chelating so it will be harsher than any sls shampoo. Dont tell me the Pantene detox is getting discontinued, damn, I hope not. Was so excited... God damn corporations.

How about this

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000Z8ESJG/ref=mp_s_a_1_2_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1503872557&sr=8-2&keywords=chelating+shampoo

:o

Ablubox
August 27th, 2017, 04:30 PM
Yes, but also what I meant is... why on earth... what makes you think 2/3 drops is even enough? You need moisture. Wavy/curly hair needs moisture, and plenty of it, so that's not going to cut it, obviously. :)

I don't know :o it felt right atm plus i added it to a bottle of water along with apple vinegar and it lathered well in the bottle, may be it had to do with me having the notion "you will die from a chemical overdose" in my head throughout the process. :) but I'm glad I know now, so how much do use yourself if you don't mind me asking :)

renia22
August 27th, 2017, 04:47 PM
Well Malibu is chelating so it will be harsher than any sls shampoo. Dont tell me the Pantene detox is getting discontinued, damn, I hope not. Was so excited... God damn corporations.


I'm not sure if they definitely are, but I noticed when they changed the formulas recently that it was the only one that didn't get changed to a sickly sweet strawberry infused scent, so I was hoping to just buy that one from now on, but now I can't find it anywhere. I'm pretty sure with the Malibu it's the Sodium C14-16 Olefin that I have issue with, I can use other chelating ones all I want and don't have that drying issue, so mostly now I just stick with the Paul Mitchell shampoo 3 for chelating.





So your hair dries out from harsh shampoos too So did you just get used to it dry or you use a moisturizer or a leave in conditioner and that negates the dryness from the shamoo :o what I mean to ask is do you compromise? and are you happy with your hair?


As mentioned above I think it's the Sodium C14-16 Olefin cleansing agent that I don't like, I don't find any of the other clarifying shampoos I mentioned drying at all (Prell, Neutrogena Anti- Residue, Paul Mitchell Shampoo 2 & Shampoo 3).. I can use any of those all I want and I don't have an issue. I just use lighter conditioners and not anything super moisturizing since my hair is fine and on the thinner side, and it's fine. I don't chemically treat my hair or anything, but I think depending on your particular hair, as well as differences in water type and climate where you live, that has something to do with product performance and your individual results too.

Corvana
August 27th, 2017, 05:01 PM
I don't know :o it felt right atm plus i added it to a bottle of water along with apple vinegar and it lathered well in the bottle, may be it had to do with me having the notion "you will die from a chemical overdose" in my head throughout the process. :) but I'm glad I know now, so how much do use yourself if you don't mind me asking :)

Generally people need a bunch of conditioner. You want it to coat your hair, undiluted, so you get all the nice moisturizing from it. You don't need your conditioner to lather. Some people like it, but I've always treated it as though it doesn't lather, and just smoothed it onto (and pressed or gently squeezed it into) my hair. I have a pump on my conditioner bottle, and use like 5 or 6 for my first condition, and another 5 or so for my second.

My hair loves conditioner, though. I could sit with it on for like 20 minutes if I wanted and have the happiest and softest hair ever.

As for the chemicals thing, everything is chemicals. You're chemicals, water is chemicals, a burrito from chipotle is chemicals, an organic apple is chemicals. Everything is chemicals. The reason for the long chemical names on stuff is because of regulatory laws requiring absolutely everything to be out in "plain sight", which is usually done via chemical names. Is it much use for those of us without a background in that sort of science? Nope, but they have to do it. Here's (https://img.wonderhowto.com/img/original/59/50/63526091288858/0/635260912888585950.jpg) an image of a kiwi, if it had to have an ingredients list like loads of other things do.

Anyway, try not to worry too much about chemicals! Sure, you can try to find stuff that's eco-friendly, or more gentle for what you need and want, but just a general fear of "chemicals" is sort of unfounded once you realize that that would mean you'd need to avoid everything, including yourself!

Obsidian
August 27th, 2017, 08:20 PM
How about this

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000Z8ESJG/ref=mp_s_a_1_2_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1503872557&sr=8-2&keywords=chelating+shampoo

:o

That looks to be a decent clarifying and chelating shampoo. It would be a good place for you to start but at this point, I have to wonder if a lot of your problems arent related to the way you clean your hair and less to do with hard water.

You need not be so afraid of chemicals. You need to take the plunge and buy some decent shampoo to get your hair clean, quit screwing around with this natural stuff, it's obviously not working for you.

When my hair was longer, just about shoulder blade length, I would easily use a shot glass full of condition or possibly even more. Depends on the conditioner and how my hair was feeling. I never, ever skimped on conditioner. With curly hair, you need the moisture. A few drops isn't enough, using vinegar isn't enough. Even with my hair only being 2" long right now, I use a spoonful of conditioner, a lot more then you are using on your longer locks.

Ablubox
August 28th, 2017, 02:18 AM
As mentioned above I think it's the Sodium C14-16 Olefin cleansing agent that I don't like, I don't find any of the other clarifying shampoos I mentioned drying at all (Prell, Neutrogena Anti- Residue, Paul Mitchell Shampoo 2 & Shampoo 3).. I can use any of those all I want and I don't have an issue. I just use lighter conditioners and not anything super moisturizing since my hair is fine and on the thinner side, and it's fine. I don't chemically treat my hair or anything, but I think depending on your particular hair, as well as differences in water type and climate where you live, that has something to do with product performance and your individual results too.

You're right, My experience is quiet different a regular shampoo can give me a pile of straws on head if I'm not careful, now I know all I have to is add as much conditioner as I need, wow, different hair on different people can behave and act so differently not by virtue but depending on the specific needs of each head of hair. good to know :o

Ablubox
August 28th, 2017, 02:45 AM
Generally people need a bunch of conditioner. You want it to coat your hair, undiluted, so you get all the nice moisturizing from it. You don't need your conditioner to lather. Some people like it, but I've always treated it as though it doesn't lather, and just smoothed it onto (and pressed or gently squeezed it into) my hair. I have a pump on my conditioner bottle, and use like 5 or 6 for my first condition, and another 5 or so for my second.

My hair loves conditioner, though. I could sit with it on for like 20 minutes if I wanted and have the happiest and softest hair ever.


Anyway, try not to worry too much about chemicals! Sure, you can try to find stuff that's eco-friendly, or more gentle for what you need and want, but just a general fear of "chemicals" is sort of unfounded once you realize that that would mean you'd need to avoid everything, including yourself!

I've been doing this all wrong, I used to hardly rub my locks with it and rinse almost instantly. I think That's exactly what my hair needs and thanks for the heads up, no more kiwi for me.. Just kidding :o ,did you read my reply to lapushka, I explain there how things escalated.. I've never experienced the drying effect before when I had short hair and I've never used *something called* conditioner so when the drying effect of shampoo hit to me with longer hair, I freaked out and obviously as some one who knows there's no such thing as bad hair I immediately blamed the chemicals in the shampoo, and that sort of built the false foundation of my understanding about hair treatment, now that you know how it started you won't think I'm some paranoid person or anything like that :) Now I know it's perfectly normal to experience dryness after a rinse with shampoo as long as I'm using as much conditioner and other forms of moisturizers as I need in the same session and it will hopefully work.

Do you use conditioner on all of your hair from the roots all the way to the ends, or you start from the middle of the strand? And for your non-chelating shampoo like the daily or weekly one do you try to find a more gentle shampoo that doesn't dry your hair completely or does it not matter because you're going to moisturise it anyway.

Ablubox
August 28th, 2017, 03:10 AM
That looks to be a decent clarifying and chelating shampoo. It would be a good place for you to start but at this point, I have to wonder if a lot of your problems arent related to the way you clean your hair and less to do with hard water

You mean "if a lot of your problems *are* related to the way you handle your hair and less to do with hard water?

Your wonder is in the right place, that's exactly what I discovered by listening to all of your advice, went through a paradigm shift in regards to my understanding and approach on hair products and hair treatment :) I was actually suggesting that for Ligeia since she's looking for a more gentle alternative.:o now I know I don't need anything over the top for my hair and I have a lot to choose from, a shot glass full o: Thank you for clarifying, I will follow your advice every step of the way and post updates for you guys :)

Sarahlabyrinth
August 28th, 2017, 03:12 AM
I use my normal shampoo quite well diluted in water, say about a teaspoonful of shampoo to about a quarter of a cup of water, mix it well together and gently apply it to my scalp hair using an old dye applicator bottle with a nozzle. I gently massage it for a minute or two, then rinse it out (not piling all the hair on my head). I then apply about a good half a cup of conditioner to my length of hair, not the scalp hair, just from about ear length downwards and leave it in anywhere from several minutes to an hour on my wet hair, if I want a really good conditioning treatment. :)

Ablubox
August 28th, 2017, 03:19 AM
I use my normal shampoo quite well diluted in water, say about a teaspoonful of shampoo to about a quarter of a cup of water, mix it well together and gently apply it to my scalp hair using an old dye applicator bottle with a nozzle. I gently massage it for a minute or two, then rinse it out (not piling all the hair on my head). I then apply about a good half a cup of conditioner to my length of hair, not the scalp hair, just from about ear length downwards and leave it in anywhere from several minutes to an hour on my wet hair, if I want a really good conditioning treatment. :)


Oh lord, thanks for sharing, never skimp on the conditioner, I've learnt my lesson, how does your hair feel afterwards and how often in a week do you repeat this process? :)

Sarahlabyrinth
August 28th, 2017, 03:33 AM
Oh I condition it every single time I wash it. With that much conditioner, and I try to use one that is for dry, damaged hair because those are the most moisturising ones. So, twice a week. :) My hair gets really soft and silky.

Edited to add: Sometimes I will add a couple of drops of olive oil to the conditioner as well, or a tablespoonful of honey to give it extra moisturising power, too. My hair can never get enough conditioner!

lapushka
August 28th, 2017, 04:02 AM
I don't know :o it felt right atm plus i added it to a bottle of water along with apple vinegar and it lathered well in the bottle, may be it had to do with me having the notion "you will die from a chemical overdose" in my head throughout the process. :) but I'm glad I know now, so how much do use yourself if you don't mind me asking :)

A palmful of conditioner. A giant heaping palmful. For my first C in WCC, and then I let that sit for 2 min. then rinse. Then another heaping palmful of conditioner for my second C in WCC. Let that sit 2 min., then rinse. But I have TBL hair, right?

Ablubox
August 28th, 2017, 05:24 AM
Oh I condition it every single time I wash it. With that much conditioner, and I try to use one that is for dry, damaged hair because those are the most moisturising ones. So, twice a week. :) My hair gets really soft and silky.

Edited to add: Sometimes I will add a couple of drops of olive oil to the conditioner as well, or a tablespoonful of honey to give it extra moisturising power, too. My hair can never get enough conditioner!

That's a great idea And your hair never feels heavy and weighed down from the conditioner, I need that. So good :o

Ligeia Noire
August 28th, 2017, 06:29 AM
Meanwhile, I poured a baking soda mixture on my head followed by 2-3 drops of conditioner and let it sit for no less than 2 minutes :o .. Learnt a lot from this, thank you for Sharing :)



This is not very promising, I hope I can manage at least some level of both hygiene and moisture with hard water until I can rid of it :)

I love conditioning my hair, it loves it. Specially if thick and full of silicones. Oils help too but yeah the chelating helped before the shower filter too. But do not give up your hair might react differently with acv if you condition first. Never skip that with long hsir but you were drilled that enough by now :p
Try even a sulphate shampoo like Pantene or head and shoulders followed by a good mask. You might not even need any chelating. I hate that. And the Malibu was almost finished yesterday so I am hunting for my Pantene detox this weekend, don't run away from me or infuse it with ridiculously sweet smells or we will have trouble.

Ablubox
August 28th, 2017, 06:39 AM
A palmful of conditioner. A giant heaping palmful. For my first C in WCC, and then I let that sit for 2 min. then rinse. Then another heaping palmful of conditioner for my second C in WCC. Let that sit 2 min., then rinse. But I have TBL hair, right?

I'm not sure, do you :o cus if you do and you're managing to keep that length of hair feeling all hydrated and moisturized why wouldn't I be able to, too with a fraction of your hair length, :)

Just applied a sizeable amount of conditioner, more than I ever have, combined :o along with few drops of lavender, might not be the right amount but we'll find out. Gonna let them sit for a while now :)

Ablubox
August 28th, 2017, 07:14 AM
I love conditioning my hair, it loves it. Specially if thick and full of silicones. Oils help too but yeah the chelating helped before the shower filter too. But do not give up your hair might react differently with acv if you condition first. Never skip that with long hsir but you were drilled that enough by now :p
Try even a sulphate shampoo like Pantene or head and shoulders followed by a good mask. You might not even need any chelating. I hate that. And the Malibu was almost finished yesterday so I am hunting for my Pantene detox this weekend,

Especially if "full of silicones" don't less-synthetic brands usually have pride in sticking a big label on their shampoo bottle saying "FREE of SILICONES" and they're seemingly good for your hair? Certainly not visibly harmful The more I read here on LHC the more i learn :), I'm not giving up I've restored my faith in life, and yes I can do that, it's kinda easy to get your hair stripped clean, and that should be okay as long as you moisturize it properly right?. Do you look for a more gentle shampoo when you're not planning to chelatee and do use a leave-in conditioner?



don't run away from me or infuse it with ridiculously sweet smells or we will have trouble.

I'm sorry, but who are you talking to :o

Obsidian
August 28th, 2017, 08:33 AM
Some people can't or don't want to use silicones. I love silicone for my hair but I have a SD and silicones make it act up, sometimes very badly. I had to find a way to compromise. I use silicone free conditioner then a serum with cones, that way I can be sure not to get any on my scalp. If I ever manage to grow my hair long, I'll be able to go back to silicone conditioners for the length.

For my daily washing, I use either a daily clarifying shampoo or some other harsh cleansing one. I want my scalp and hair clean, I can always add moisture back in. I have experimented with sulfate free shampoo and found one brand that works well for me but only if I stop using cones.

One thing about my hair though, I color with henna and that causes an almost teflon like coating that makes it really prone to build up. Doesn't take much to get my hair feeling gunky.

Ligeia Noire
August 28th, 2017, 09:08 AM
Especially if "full of silicones" don't less-synthetic brands usually have pride in sticking a big label on their shampoo bottle saying "FREE of SILICONES" and they're seehimingly good for your hair? Certainly not visibly harmful The more I read here ogn LHC the more i learn :), I'm not giving up I've restored my faith in life, and yes I can do that, it's kinda easy to get your hair stripped clean, and that should be okay as long as you moisturize it properly right?. Do you look for a more gentle shampoo when you're not planning to chelatee and do use a leave-in conditioner?




I'm sorry, but who are you talking to :o
I am talking to the wind don't worry. :p
Well I make sure I use the ones that have silicones in them. Like Pantene but even when they say they don't have them, they sometimes lie and have the water soluble ones, which you can wash off easily. Anyway, I can tell you that I could have never ever managed to grow this long without them but some people can and don't use them for many reasons. You have to make sure to clarify once in a while to clear your hair from them as they tend to build up and block the moisture out of your hair as they form a film on your strands. So I do make sure I have a mask free of silicones or at least something a bit more natural to apply when I clarify. I use oils and aloe and honey and vegetable glycerin too. So my hair gets real stuff into it... I use shea moisture (African black castor oil) which is as a good brand for when you want to feed your hair well.
My regular shampoo is the Kirkland moisture one but I tend to change after the bottle is done because my scalp is very dry and tends to flake and I am still on the search for something perfect.

Corvana
August 28th, 2017, 01:34 PM
I've been doing this all wrong, I used to hardly rub my locks with it and rinse almost instantly. I think That's exactly what my hair needs and thanks for the heads up, no more kiwi for me.. Just kidding :o ,did you read my reply to lapushka, I explain there how things escalated.. I've never experienced the drying effect before when I had short hair and I've never used *something called* conditioner so when the drying effect of shampoo hit to me with longer hair, I freaked out and obviously as some one who knows there's no such thing as bad hair I immediately blamed the chemicals in the shampoo, and that sort of built the false foundation of my understanding about hair treatment, now that you know how it started you won't think I'm some paranoid person or anything like that :) Now I know it's perfectly normal to experience dryness after a rinse with shampoo as long as I'm using as much conditioner and other forms of moisturizers as I need in the same session and it will hopefully work.

Do you use conditioner on all of your hair from the roots all the way to the ends, or you start from the middle of the strand? And for your non-chelating shampoo like the daily or weekly one do you try to find a more gentle shampoo that doesn't dry your hair completely or does it not matter because you're going to moisturise it anyway.

My routine is a little different from those with scalp issues, which I believe you mentioned you have?

I use Pantene for dry hair (I don't remember the exact one, and it's aaaaall the way upstairs and I really don't wanna go get it :laugh:), but I dilute it for regular use. It has both SLS and SLES (sodium lauryl and sodium laureth sulfates) which is too strong for my scalp on a regular basis undiluted. But I do use it full strength as a clarifying (not chelating) wash to remove product buildup.

Then I get a little oil (maybe 4 drops? 2? I never remember) and put that on my ends. Then I rinse that out! Before rinsing I do my best to look to see if I can see the water beading up on all of my ends. If yes, I'll rinse, and if no I'll add a little more wherever I missed.

Conditioning is done with Tresemme moisture rich, and I get half a palmful (I may go overboard, but honestly I don't care! Tresemme is cheap here, and my hair is always happy) that I spread mostly on my ends. Then when I've only got a tiny bit left on my hands I finger comb my hair to detangle, and do get some conditioner on my scalp. I dislike not using conditioner on my scalp at all (and so does my scalp, if my experiments mean anything. So itchy!), but I tend to go very lightly because too much for me on my scalp is also not fun. By the time I'm finished detangling it's been a couple minutes so I rinse!

Then I condition again, with about the same amount of conditioner. I'd rather use too much than not enough. This time, though, I squeeze it gently into my hair as I've noticed a difference in how moisturized my hair feels when I do that as opposed to skipping it. I also still get a little on my scalp hair. Then I leave it to sit while I wash everything else and shave if I feel like it, or just sing a bunch of songs. Anywhere from 3-7 minutes it's left in my hair, occasionally much longer though. Then I rinse everything but my hair, leaving it for very last! I turn off the hot water, and rinse my conditioner out with cold water. It rinses out much faster (or seems to), and the cold water helps close up your hair cuticles. My hair is always a bit softer when I remember to rinse with cold water than it is when I forget.

When I clarify (I don't chelate, only because I haven't felt the need to yet. I do have hard water, but I wonder if my conditioning habits mask the hard water effects), I then follow up with a deep conditioner (my favorite for years has been L'Oreal Nature's Therapy Mega Moisture, because it's soooo thick and doesn't drip and leaves my hair crazy soft) that I press into my hair, and then let sit for like 10 minutes. Again, 95% of the conditioner goes on my hair away from my scalp, while the last 5% (or less idk) is lightly finger combed through my scalp. This is personal preference, and may not do well for you! It's worth a try, of course, but it could cause your scalp to get very angry, especially if you do have SD like lapushka.

ETA: My conditioners are both full of silicones, which I love lol. I could probably go without them, but honestly don't feel the need to so I don't bother.

Ablubox
August 28th, 2017, 01:42 PM
Some people can't or don't want to use silicones. I love silicone for my hair but I have a SD and silicones make it act up, sometimes very badly. I had to find a way to compromise. I use silicone free conditioner then a serum with cones, that way I can be sure not to get any on my scalp. If I ever manage to grow my hair long, I'll be able to go back to silicone conditioners for the length.

For my daily washing, I use either a daily clarifying shampoo or some other harsh cleansing one. I want my scalp and hair clean, I can always add moisture back in. I have experimented with sulfate free shampoo and found one brand that works well for me but only if I stop using cones.

One thing about my hair though, I color with henna and that causes an almost teflon like coating that makes it really prone to build up. Doesn't take much to get my hair feeling gunky.

Your hair routine makes a lot of sense, I've learnt alot and I'm sure you'll be to grow your hair quiet easily, hair is very strong, ever since I've started growing my hair, It was in a bad state and my scalp was suffering from buildup and snowflakes etc.. 99% of the time and thankfully it still managed to grow, :o you use henna for color only or for its health benefits and is it worth dealing with the buildup? :)

Ablubox
August 28th, 2017, 02:13 PM
I am talking to the wind don't worry. :p
Well I make sure I use the ones that have silicones in them. Like Pantene but even when they say they don't have them, they sometimes lie and have the water soluble ones, which you can wash off easily. Anyway, I can tell you that I could have never ever managed to grow this long without them but some people can and don't use them for many reasons. You have to make sure to clarify once in a while to clear your hair from them as they tend to build up and block the moisture out of your hair as they form a film on your strands. So I do make sure I have a mask free of silicones or at least something a bit more natural to apply when I clarify. I use oils and aloe and honey and vegetable glycerin too. So my hair gets real stuff into it... I use shea moisture (African black castor oil) which is as a good brand for when you want to feed your hair well.
My regular shampoo is the Kirkland moisture one but I tend to change after the bottle is done because my scalp is very dry and tends to flake and I am still on the search for something perfect.

Funny you mention it cus today I applied more than a few drops of conditioner (!!!) And because of that I managed to notice that the fragrance of the conditioner is a little too overpowering, over saturated and unpleasant in that regard, I always wondered why people mention the fragrance of a hair product in their reviews or sometimes how they love a hair product partly because it's unscented, now I get it, so I'm guessing opening the cap of hair products while shopping to capture the fragrance is okay? :o
Aha articles sometimes mention the negatives about something exclusively, I know the part about silicone contributing to buildup but never read anything good about it until now. I've read magical stuff about castor oil when I was on the hunt but ended up ordering a blend of oils by shea terra organics that didn't workout so good, but it could be Because I had a wonky hair routine back then, That's a fine shampoo, I've read good stuff about it, your hair routine is so packed :o but that's a good sign I suppose since you seem to enjoy it. :)

Corvana
August 28th, 2017, 02:19 PM
so I'm guessing opening the cap of hair products while shopping to capture the fragrance is okay? :o

Most people do this, actually. At least here in the US, most shampoos/conditioners/body washes don't have a seal on them, so you can just pop the top (as though you were going to use it, not unscrew the whole cap), give it a gentle squeeze to push the air from the bottle out, and smell! But there are still some that smell great in the bottle and terrible in use. My "backup" conditioner is that way! It's soooo coconut-y, and I hate it. But it's a nice enough conditioner, so I'll use it if I run out of my preferred conditioner, and my son loves it so he uses it as well for his conditioner only washing.

Often if you find a leave in product with a scent you prefer (in my case, it's beard oil that I use as hair oil that is scented with coffee essential oil and smells like a café), you can mask or even fully cover the scent of the product you don't like as much if the scent is the only thing that's bad about it.

Ligeia Noire
August 28th, 2017, 02:28 PM
Funny you mention it cus today I applied more than a few drops of conditioner (!!!) And because of that I managed to notice that the fragrance of the conditioner is a little too overpowering, over saturated and unpleasant in that regard, I always wondered why people mention the fragrance of a hair product in their reviews or sometimes how they love a hair product partly because it's unscented, now I get it, so I'm guessing opening the cap of hair products while shopping to capture the fragrance is okay? :o
Aha articles sometimes mention the negatives about something exclusively, I know the part about silicone contributing to buildup but never read anything good about it until now. I've read magical stuff about castor oil when I was on the hunt but ended up ordering a blend of oils by shea terra organics that didn't workout so good, but it could be Because I had a wonky hair routine back then, That's a fine shampoo, I've read good stuff about it, your hair routine is so packed :o but that's a good sign I suppose since you seem to enjoy it. :)

Yeah it seems packed but i only do this once a week and I have fun doing it. It is a hobby pretty much and yes silicones do help loads with hair manageability. I've gone full organic shampoo and conditioner and cannot tell you how hard it was to comb and how my hair got dry and frizzy. These products provide no slip to my hair but they do nourish it. Castor oil is awesone but very stick. I mix it with jojoba and then it is easier to apply. Of course I don't do this every time i wash. Usually I shampoo, apply a conditioner let it sit for an hour and done.

Obsidian
August 28th, 2017, 02:52 PM
I use henna for the color. I'm a natural blonde but have always loved red hair. The conditioning party is nice too and my hair is super shiny.

The build up really isn't bad to manage. I just had to experiment with different products until I found the combo I like.

I don't generally use oil, doesn't do much for my hair. Deep conditioner treatments actually make my hair dryer, especially if it contains honey.

It can be easy to get overwhelmed and start trying all the things. Keep it simple at first, find shampoo and conditioner you like and only try one oil at at time.

Once you get the basics down, then you can start experimenting with other treatments.

Ablubox
August 28th, 2017, 02:53 PM
My routine is a little different from those with scalp issues, which I believe you mentioned you have?

I use Pantene for dry hair (I don't remember the exact one, and it's aaaaall the way upstairs and I really don't wanna go get it :laugh:), but I dilute it for regular use. It has both SLS and SLES (sodium lauryl and sodium laureth sulfates) which is too strong for my scalp on a regular basis undiluted. But I do use it full strength as a clarifying (not chelating) wash to remove product buildup.

When I clarify (I don't chelate, only because I haven't felt the need to yet. I do have hard water, but I wonder if my conditioning habits mask the hard water effects), I then follow up with a deep conditioner (my favorite for years has been L'Oreal Nature's Therapy Mega Moisture, because it's soooo thick and doesn't drip and leaves my hair crazy soft) that I press into my hair, and then let sit for like 10 minutes. Again, 95% of the conditioner goes on my hair away from my scalp, while the last 5% (or less idk) is lightly finger combed through my scalp. This is personal preference, and may not do well for you! It's worth a try, of course, but it could cause your scalp to get very angry, especially if you do have SD like lapushka.

ETA: My conditioners are both full of silicones, which I love lol. I could probably go without them, but honestly don't feel the need to so I don't bother.

Love the dilution trick,saves you from going through a lot of trouble as well as the cold water thing; very useful, I've read about it a lot but never took it seriously, God I was hopeless. You ever notice how differently shampoo and conditioner are used, that's exactly why they're paired together i guess, here you are diluting your shampoo before applying it, but when it comes to conditioner.. The amount you use is
just obscene! :o , the fact that you apply a little conditioner to your scalp makes sense as well, I often find myself wondering, if my whole head is gonna be a dry mess why would I just use the condtioner on my ends or half my locks. This helps thank you :) i still don't know why do you guys love silicon so much X__X

Ablubox
August 28th, 2017, 03:07 PM
Often if you find a leave in product with a scent you prefer (in my case, it's beard oil that I use as hair oil that is scented with coffee essential oil and smells like a café), you can mask or even fully cover the scent of the product you don't like as much if the scent is the only thing that's bad about it.

Yes! I remember my friend telling me how good herbal essences shampoo smells and back then I had just used it recently (without conditioning ofcourse) and came out of the shower regretting it, my reaction to his words were hilarious, at least now it seems to be, sounds like fun :) I'm gonna have to do that next time I buy hair products, I don't cope well with overpowering odours, (especially when there are chemicals involved :o ) besides I think everybody has a preference to fragrances that don't involve overly overwhelming scents like that. Are you sure how can I mask the scent of a hair product?

Ablubox
August 28th, 2017, 03:16 PM
Yeah it seems packed but i only do this once a week and I have fun doing it. It is a hobby pretty much and yes silicones do help loads with hair manageability. I've gone full organic shampoo and conditioner and cannot tell you how hard it was to comb and how my hair got dry and frizzy. These products provide no slip to my hair but they do nourish it. Castor oil is awesone but very stick. I mix it with jojoba and then it is easier to apply. Of course I don't do this every time i wash. Usually I shampoo, apply a conditioner let it sit for an hour and done.

Hmm good to know, Since you're probably gonna go through this kind of process forever, it better be a hobby :o yeah I believe that, I suspect that many organic recipes still need some work, great to hear I was worried that conditioner isn't supposed to sit for long periods of time, apparently it can, :)

Ablubox
August 28th, 2017, 03:30 PM
I use henna for the color. I'm a natural blonde but have always loved red hair. The conditioning party is nice too and my hair is super shiny.

The build up really isn't bad to manage. I just had to experiment with different products until I found the combo I like.

I don't generally use oil, doesn't do much for my hair. Deep conditioner treatments actually make my hair dryer, especially if it contains honey.

It can be easy to get overwhelmed and start trying all the things. Keep it simple at first, find shampoo and conditioner you like and only try one oil at at time.

Once you get the basics down, then you can start experimenting with other treatments.


Yes stripping the hair clean does seem like the easy part. Very good idea, henna is a natural colorant so you don't go through the chemical process of dyeing, yes exactly that's what I'm planning to do, like you guys said from the beginning, maybe your reaction to honey has something to do with protein sensitivity, or not? :)

Obsidian
August 28th, 2017, 04:01 PM
No, honey doesn't have anything to do with protein.

Honey is a humectant, meaning it attracts moisture. If there is humidity in the air, it will attract it to your hair but if you are in a dry environment, it can actually pull the moisture from your hair.
It's too dry here for humectants. Can't use lotion with glycerin either which is another humectant, it dries my skin out.

Corvana
August 28th, 2017, 04:25 PM
Love the dilution trick,saves you from going through a lot of trouble as well as the cold water thing; very useful, I've read about it a lot but never took it seriously, God I was hopeless. You ever notice how differently shampoo and conditioner are used, that's exactly why they're paired together i guess, here you are diluting your shampoo before applying it, but when it comes to conditioner.. The amount you use is
just obscene! :o , the fact that you apply a little conditioner to your scalp makes sense as well, I often find myself wondering, if my whole head is gonna be a dry mess why would I just use the condtioner on my ends or half my locks. This helps thank you :) i still don't know why do you guys love silicon so much X__X

I like silicones because it makes it easier for me to detangle my hair. When I didn't use them, which was for a good while, my tangles and knots would just be out of control and very hard to undo. And of course at the time I wasn't gently detangling with a wide toothed comb and my fingers (use the comb to find the knots, use my fingers to undo them), I was just ripping through with a brush. No wonder my hair felt thin :shudder:

I only use a little on my scalp, though, because too much makes it greasy. After a day or two my natural oils moisturize the hair at my scalp, so I don't need nearly as much conditioner for it. And yes, overall I use a lot of conditioner lol. I like it when my hair is soft and moisturized, and I can do so with a nice moisturizing conditioner. The deep conditioner I only use maybe once a month or every other month, and during that wash that's the only one I use.

I dilute my shampoo more than I need to since I have trouble reaching all of my scalp. So it's more diluted so I can wash twice without making my scalp angry! I'm going to look into an applicator bottle, like the ones you get from dye boxes, so I can use the nozzle to get everywhere more easily.


Yes! I remember my friend telling me how good herbal essences shampoo smells and back then I had just used it recently (without conditioning ofcourse) and came out of the shower regretting it, my reaction to his words were hilarious, at least now it seems to be, sounds like fun :) I'm gonna have to do that next time I buy hair products, I don't cope well with overpowering odours, (especially when there are chemicals involved :o ) besides I think everybody has a preference to fragrances that don't involve overly overwhelming scents like that. Are you sure how can I mask the scent of a hair product?

It's never a guarantee that you can mask a scent, but it's certainly possible. You could even go so far as to add a couple drops of an essential oil you like to your shampoo or conditioner (and then mix it REALLY well) to try to cover it. But finding a scent you don't hate is the easiest route to take. Most products are scented strongly so that the scent persists through the day and leaves a "trail" of it behind so that others will smell it and potentially ask what the smell is. Free advertising ;)

Ablubox
August 29th, 2017, 04:37 AM
No, honey doesn't have anything to do with protein.

Honey is a humectant, meaning it attracts moisture. If there is humidity in the air, it will attract it to your hair but if you are in a dry environment, it can actually pull the moisture from your hair.
It's too dry here for humectants. Can't use lotion with glycerin either which is another humectant, it dries my skin out.

Hair is so alive, it reacts to just about everything, amazing, obviously as logical as this information sounds, you wouldn't be so sure if you didn't experiment. Awesome :o

Ablubox
August 29th, 2017, 05:23 AM
I
I only use a little on my scalp, though, because too much makes it greasy. After a day or two my natural oils moisturize the hair at my scalp, so I don't need nearly as much conditioner for it. And yes, overall I use a lot of conditioner lol. I like it when my hair is soft and moisturized, and I can do so with a nice moisturizing conditioner. The deep conditioner I only use maybe once a month or every other month, and during that wash that's the only one I use.

I dilute my shampoo more than I need to since I have trouble reaching all of my scalp. So it's more diluted so I can wash twice without making my scalp angry! I'm going to look into an applicator bottle, like the ones you get from dye boxes, so I can use the nozzle to get everywhere more easily


Hmm, interesting. Hehe, you used to have trouble with your hair before you knew what there is to know about your hair (now I know you bleed :o) , yeah I agree, I just need 2-3 days for my scalp to restore some of it's natural oils, Love the applicator idea makes a lot of sense with shampoos. Yeah i guess it'll come in handy in situations where you're stuck with a product with an overpowering fragrance for whatever reason, peppermint oil has a pretty strong scent, it should mask the fragrance pretty good. :)


Most products are scented strongly so that the scent persists through the day and leaves a "trail" of it behind so that others smell it and potentially ask what the smell is. Free advertising. ;)

And a great conversation starter :o