water ph what does it mean for your hair?

[diddiedaisy]

I've just checked the water ph where I live and it is 9.

What does this mean for hair? I've just read an article that says a ph that high is damaging to the cortex. Is that true and if so what can be done to counteract a high ph? :)

[paulownia]

I've just checked the water ph where I live and it is 9.

What does this mean for hair? I've just read an article that says a ph that high is damaging to the cortex. Is that true and if so what can be done to counteract a high ph? :)
Wow, that's really high! Usually water is between 6,5 and 8,5 ph. It means that your water is more alcalic= hard. It's not very good for hair that's true, I guess you could invest in water filter.
It will also help to do acidic rinses, water with lemon juice or apple cider vinegar.

[diddiedaisy]

Wow, that's really high! Usually water is between 6,5 and 8,5 ph. It means that your water is more alcalic= hard. It's not very good for hair that's true, I guess you could invest in water filter.
It will also help to do acidic rinses, water with lemon juice or apple cider vinegar.

Thanks, it did also say the water was soft!!!! So confusing. :justy: I don't think the water is soft personally, at least if my kettle is anything to go by. It doesn't take long to get build on it.

I do use a vinegar rinse as I use shampoo bars but I've just realised that I've been making the solution way too strong. I'm going to start taking a 1/4 teaspoon baking measure into the shower with me. I also do the rinse before my condtioner, I might try doing the vinegar rinse last and not rinse it out. :)

[Obsidian]

High PH does not mean your water is hard. PH measures how acid or alkaline your water is, hardness measures how much dissolved minerals is in the water. You do know that soap has a high PH? usually between 9 and 12.
My hair was ruined from nearly 2 years of shampoo bar use. Using vinegar will close the cuticles but it won't stop the damage.

[Chromis]

Quoting myself from a thread yesterday:


I know that my hair behaved the same way after years of build-up. Also, many places switch their water supply at different times during the year, so you might find your hair acts worse in some seasons than others. In addition to the estimates of your city's pH and water hardness you can find on line, these are actually pretty simple things to test for. If you have a PetsMart in town, take them a water sample, they can test for pH, GH, and KH which are the ones to pay the most attention to. (They will also test ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates since these are things that concern fish keepers.) Pool stores or water softener stores will often do the tests for you as well. This is for fish, but if those terms confuse you, here is a good article that will give a basic explanation: https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/understanding-ph-kh-gh-in-home-aqauriums.113548/

It is possible to use shampoo bars in water like yours. I have used them for over ten years now and grew from tailbone to knee in ultra-hard, high pH water. (I was at waist-ish when I started using the bars, but only in hard water, not ultra hard!) The bars do not work for everyone, but they are not certain doom!

There are a number of threads on the subject. Searching using Google might help you find them easier, because pH is too short of a keyword. I suggest a search like this: site: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/forum.php "pH" and "hardness"

You might need to play around a bit with keywords, but that's how I would start

[paulownia]

Thanks, it did also say the water was soft!!!! So confusing. :justy: I don't think the water is soft personally, at least if my kettle is anything to go by. It doesn't take long to get build on it.

I do use a vinegar rinse as I use shampoo bars but I've just realised that I've been making the solution way too strong. I'm going to start taking a 1/4 teaspoon baking measure into the shower with me. I also do the rinse before my condtioner, I might try doing the vinegar rinse last and not rinse it out. :)

Ok, I maybe confused a little about this hard/soft thing. I used to live in Denmark and water there is awful, very hard. My hair was more matted and frizzy back then. Now I live in Sweden and water here is soft :) and my hair is happier and shinier.
I don't know anything about shampoo bars , never used them and have no idea how they are working.

[Anje]

High PH does not mean your water is hard. PH measures how acid or alkaline your water is, hardness measures how much dissolved minerals is in the water. You do know that soap has a high PH? usually between 9 and 12.
My hair was ruined from nearly 2 years of shampoo bar use. Using vinegar will close the cuticles but it won't stop the damage.

Yes and no. The pH doesn't directly tell you anything about the dissolved minerals, except that what's in there is basic. But in many cases, if you have basic water, it's because it's picked up a lot of carbonate, and that's hard. OP, do you get white precipitate when you boil water? That's carbonate (brewers refer to it a "temporary hardness" because it can be boiled out to a point), and it's one way water can be hard.

[diddiedaisy]

anje, it doesn't take long for my kettles to get white build up on. If I remember correctly it's less than a month. :)

[diddiedaisy]

High PH does not mean your water is hard. PH measures how acid or alkaline your water is, hardness measures how much dissolved minerals is in the water. You do know that soap has a high PH? usually between 9 and 12.
My hair was ruined from nearly 2 years of shampoo bar use. Using vinegar will close the cuticles but it won't stop the damage.
That's interesting. Did the damage suddenly come on or did it build up slowly over time so that you didn't notice until bam?

The past month I've been using shampoo more than the bars as it's quicker, but in the months I was solely using bars my growth increased. Not by masses but it went from 1cm to 1/2 inch. Now I've identified why my growth got quicker I'm back on the bars haha.

Also my hair does look nicer with shampoo, the bars leave it looking a bit greasy in the bang area. But, shampoo gives me back rash and bacne. I use 100% natural bars. So it's a bit of a toss up :)

[Anje]

anje, it doesn't take long for my kettles to get white build up on. If I remember correctly it's less than a month. :)

Then it's at least a little hard. In bad places, you get this layer of white scum just boiling water for pasta or tea or whatever.

[diddiedaisy]

Then it's at least a little hard. In bad places, you get this layer of white scum just boiling water for pasta or tea or whatever.

Thanks. Don't get the white scum just boiling water though thankfully!!! :)

[Meggypoo]

Diddiedaisy I have been obsessed with my hair pH recently. Regardless of the minerals in your water, high pH is not good for your hair. It lifts the cuticles from the hair shaft leaving them prone to damage. Additionally, it causes a net negative charge of electrons to deposit on the surface of your hair. This effect causes frizzing because the hairs repel each other. I have curly hair and was frizzy for ever and ever until I finally started to get my pH in check. The pH of my tap water is 8.6, so I make a dilute vinegar + distilled water solution to saturate my hair in post-shower.

Here is a published source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4158629/

[diddiedaisy]

Diddiedaisy I have been obsessed with my hair pH recently. Regardless of the minerals in your water, high pH is not good for your hair. It lifts the cuticles from the hair shaft leaving them prone to damage. Additionally, it causes a net negative charge of electrons to deposit on the surface of your hair. This effect causes frizzing because the hairs repel each other. I have curly hair and was frizzy for ever and ever until I finally started to get my pH in check. The pH of my tap water is 8.6, so I make a dilute vinegar + distilled water solution to saturate my hair in post-shower.

Here is a published source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4158629/
Thanks. My hair is prone to frizz also being 2a. I usually rinse out my vinegar rinse, so I'm obviously getting no benefit from it. I'll leave it in tomorrow when I wash and see how my hair is. :)

Can I ask the ratio of your rinse?

[Kaya]

Then it's at least a little hard. In bad places, you get this layer of white scum just boiling water for pasta or tea or whatever.

Yeah, that's what I get. Filtering the water helps a bit, but there still is a slight film. Yuck. :(

[Meggypoo]

diddiedaisy I currently use distilled water and white vinegar in a 6:1 ratio or so, but the exact formula changes based on the vinegar used because they have varying pH, usually between 2-4 I think. I use the distilled water (pH 7) because my tap water has such a high pH and honestly just so many minerals that were sticking to my length. When I whip up a batch with a new vinegar I squirt a bit onto litmus paper to ensure the pH is approximately 4. If you want to get super-sciency we could actually math it out with pH equations. That said, the litmus paper is good enough for me. I bought a roll for ten bucks off amazon and I use it all the time :laugh:

I personally found that application of the solution is critical for good results. I bought a cheap condiment bottle from bed bath and beyond. After I turn off the water post-shower, I squeeze out the excess (tap) water from my hair. Then I grab the condiment bottle and whilst standing in the tub I squirt it in rows along my scalp and allow the rest to saturate down my hair length. When my scalp is fully saturated I squirt the rest on my length as well. My hair ends up entirely wet all over again, and then I squeeze that water out and dry normally. It takes but a minute or two. I hope the description was helpful :)

[diddiedaisy]

diddiedaisy I currently use distilled water and white vinegar in a 6:1 ratio or so, but the exact formula changes based on the vinegar used because they have varying pH, usually between 2-4 I think. I use the distilled water (pH 7) because my tap water has such a high pH and honestly just so many minerals that were sticking to my length. When I whip up a batch with a new vinegar I squirt a bit onto litmus paper to ensure the pH is approximately 4. If you want to get super-sciency we could actually math it out with pH equations. That said, the litmus paper is good enough for me. I bought a roll for ten bucks off amazon and I use it all the time :laugh:

I personally found that application of the solution is critical for good results. I bought a cheap condiment bottle from bed bath and beyond. After I turn off the water post-shower, I squeeze out the excess (tap) water from my hair. Then I grab the condiment bottle and whilst standing in the tub I squirt it in rows along my scalp and allow the rest to saturate down my hair length. When my scalp is fully saturated I squirt the rest on my length as well. My hair ends up entirely wet all over again, and then I squeeze that water out and dry normally. It takes but a minute or two. I hope the description was helpful :)

Very helpful thankyou. I might pick up some litmus paper tomorrow :)

[Obsidian]

That's interesting. Did the damage suddenly come on or did it build up slowly over time so that you didn't notice until bam?

The past month I've been using shampoo more than the bars as it's quicker, but in the months I was solely using bars my growth increased. Not by masses but it went from 1cm to 1/2 inch. Now I've identified why my growth got quicker I'm back on the bars haha.

Also my hair does look nicer with shampoo, the bars leave it looking a bit greasy in the bang area. But, shampoo gives me back rash and bacne. I use 100% natural bars. So it's a bit of a toss up :)

It was a slow process. My hair never did look or feel great with shampoo bars but it completely did away with my SD so I kept using them. Eventually my hair became so damaged that it started breaking off in chunks. I buzzed it all off and never went back to soap bars again.

[diddiedaisy]

It was a slow process. My hair never did look or feel great with shampoo bars but it completely did away with my SD so I kept using them. Eventually my hair became so damaged that it started breaking off in chunks. I buzzed it all off and never went back to soap bars again.

Hmmm, that's given me food for thought. Especially as my hair does look better with conventional shampoo. At the moment I haven't got breaky hair, but neither do I want it to start. The hair I've got needs to stay put. It lacks elasticity which is my main problem, so I guess it wouldn't take much to tip it over the edge into breakage territory.

I think taking into consideration all the great info that's been given, I may ditch the shampoo bar (given its high ph) and do a final properly measured vinegar rinse and leave it in. :)

[diddiedaisy]

Success!!!

So this morning i put conditioner on my lengths, scalp shampoo'd with conventional shampoo, rinsed, conditioned, rinsed and as final rinse used vinegar and left it on.

I used 1/2 teaspoon of white vinegar to 460mls of water to give me a ph of 4.5 which is recommended for bleached hair.

The tangles which I have been getting this past fortnight have disappeared and my fly aways are sitting much flatter.

It turns out I have been using way too much vinegar thereby making an extremely acidic rinse.

I would definately recommend that people have a look at their ph levels when a problem crops up that other methods don't seem to fix.

Thankyou everyone for your fantastic input :)

[Anje]

Cool, your water doesn't buffer much. :) I haven't messed with test strips and my water (come to think of it, I have the strips now and really ought to), but I taste it when I mix it with vinegar, and it takes considerably more than that to make mine taste tart. Or did before I moved to the current house with a softener.

It might be worth trying yours to see what pH 4.5 with vinegar tastes like.

[diddiedaisy]

Anje, it's certainly worth a try. I've got to say though I haven't tasted vinegar rinse water. The water here does taste horrible though straight out of the tap, but I have a fridge with a water dispenser and I'll only drink it from that. For some reason the cold temperature gets rid of the taste. :)