6 feet of hair with constant recurring HORRIBLE tangles! ANY help/advice appreciated!

[Girlw6ftofHair]

Hello all! New member here and can finally post to the forums. I was told about the site by several people while on my hunt for help online. As long as I have had long hair, which has been pretty much forever, I had never thought about a site like this. Happy that it exists! If I can not find help here, than I don't think I will have any option but to cut a good portion of my hair off. I apologize in advance for the length this is going to be but I want to be as detailed as possible.

So as the title says, I have 6 feet (yes really) of virgin hair, maybe more if it were pulled straight. It is quite thick and SUPER wavy. I do not use a blow dryer or any other heated tools. Several months back out of nowhere my hair started to HORRIBLY tangle. My hair has always had horrible tangles. Even when it was shorter. To the point where I have been told, I have never seen anyones hair tangle like that. However, it has started to tangle MUCH worse. I am simply at a total loss. I had not changed anything in my routine. I never wear my hair down and haven't for at least 5 years. The only time it is down is when I would get in the shower to wash/condition it. Then back up in the braid after I spent a few hours trying to untangle it. It is now taking me 8 hours to untangle. I am in no way exaggerating! I have been timing it for the last several months and I am averaging between 7 and a bit over 8 hours. I just can't do this anymore. I literally have anxiety about it throughout the week. I have spent the last few months Googling everything I can think of. I went out and bought the most suggested/top rated brushes. Including the Wet Brush Original, Tangle Teezer Original, Tangle Tamer and several other brushes. None of them have really helped. The majority of them I could not even get my hair through. I have continued to use the Wet Brush as it seems to work the best out of all of them. I have been to Sally's Beauty multiple times and bought everything they have suggested. I have spent over an hour in the store each time as everything in there SOUNDS good. The women there really don't know what to tell me as they said they have never dealt with such long hair. So far out of the multiple things I have tried, nothing has helped with the tangles. I also went to Ulta Beauty and spoke with the Salon Manager. She really could not help either. She could only think of two products that were sold in store that might help. I ended up not buying either as one was $25 and the other was $30 something. Both were like 4ox bottles, so I would need more than one. I just can't spend that kind of money. Especially after all the others things I have bought recently. It added up super quick! The only other thing she could suggest was some kind of oil treament or something that they do at the salon. She said it normally takes 4 hours. She could not even guess how long mine would take. One of the girls that worked there who I spoke to first told me about it and that she had done it. She had shoulder length hair and she paid over $200 for it. I asked the manager how much it would cost to do mine and she said guessing over $1000. Plus, it only last for several months. I was definitely disappointed as I don't have that kind of money. So that one is definitely out.

The time it takes for me to take a shower, do everything to my hair that I need to while in the shower, plus everything I need to do to it when I get out, has just became too much. So, 3 or 4 washes ago, I decided to leave my hair in the braid while washing/conditioning. I then tried taking it down after I got out to brush out and the next time leaving it until the next day to brush out. Both had the same result with no difference. Even after spending 8 hours brushing it out and when I say that it is with the brush but mostly with my fingers as the brush just won't get the tangles out. My hair is STILL a tangled mess. Even though it did not move and nothing touched it and I detangled literally strand by strand, it's right back to where it was. Which sounds impossible but apparently it's not. The tangles are throughout my hair. Mainly around the middle and a bit up I would say. They really are just everywhere. Yesterday I randomly linked a recent hair trim. Which I don't do nearly as often as I should. To around the time the tangles started. Not sure if this has anything to do with it but thought it was worth mentioning just because as far as I can remember they were around the same time. I always thought having a trim would help detangle, which was certainly not the case this time around if they are connected. Aside from the time it takes to brush out my hair and the sheer amount of pain my entire body is in when I'm done, I am worried about the amount of hair I am losing each time I brush and detangle. To the point where the person who braids my hair even said they could tell a noticeable difference in the thickness of my hair and braid. What was the point of spending literally years of time,effort,money and a ton of water just to rip it all out? Some of the tangles end up coming out in little balls when I finally have them out.

Again, my apologies for this being so long. I am BEYOND overwhelmed with this situation. If anyone can suggest ANYTHING, I will surely listen. I know my hair length is rare but I just can't be the only person in the world ever to have this problem. In my online searches I have seen several videos of girls with hair around my length and one or two even longer. Granted there hair doesn't look like mine but the way they glide through their hair just amazes me. I just find it impossible that they can do that. At the same time it gives me a glimmer of hope as to maybe there is something that can be done to save mine. Thank you to everyone who takes the time to read this. I look forward to getting replies! :)

[Aredhel]

First thing that comes to mind would be potential buildup from minerals in your water. I did a quick Google search and it looks like the water in your area is generally very hard (https://www.qualitywatertreatment.com/city_water_guide/)? That could be a problem when it comes to excessive tangling. When I don't "chelate" my hair, buildup causes a ton of tangling in my hair, due to dryness, brittleness, etc. Second, do you wear your hair up in protective styles (ex., buns)? I tend to find that keeps my hair a lot more tangle-free compared to when I leave it down.

Sorry my answer may not be much help, my hair is generally manageable with its type and length. Hopefully someone can help identify your issue better than I can... good luck!

Also - welcome to LHC. :)

[Borgessa]

I know a few folks would like to know the name of the shampoo your using and conditioner, they also like to know exactly what your putting in your hair as to coney leave in conditioners etc.. As for the price of that oil treatment THAT is ridiculous. You can do that yourself, just with the oil of your choosing. I use a coconut oil, jojoba oil, aragan oil and some rosehip oil.. little more of the coconut as it is the cheapest and easiest for me to get. I just mix them together put them in a little bottle, then when i want to use I stand the bottle in a glass of boiling water to warm the oil up, I spray my hair slightly with a little water, as it is the water that moisturizes the hair and the oil helps to trap that water in. I personally then braid my hair leave it in over night and wash it out the next day with the help of a conditioner on the length to help lift the oil out. Don't shampoo the length, just the scalp. But i'm sure you haven't grown 6 feet of hair and not have some great hair care tricks of your own.. Folks will want to know if you have used a clarifying shampoo any time recently also.

Good luck, i hope someone has some great advice for ya.

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Yes, I would try clarifying/chelating as well, followed by a diluted vinegar rinse, to manage with hard water. I do this about once a month to keep my hair happy. I hope you get your hair troubles sorted, and - welcome here :)

[Corvana]

I'm a shorty, but my advice would be the same as above: clarify and chelate, oil your length yourself with the oil(s) of your choice, and maybe look into a silk or satin pillowcase for overnight tangles.

And since you're a wavy one, I'd also suggest maybe looking into curly girl methods to see if any of those help out. Curly and wavy hair are a whole different beast to straight hair.

[Girlw6ftofHair]

First thing that comes to mind would be potential buildup from minerals in your water. I did a quick Google search and it looks like the water in your area is generally very hard (https://www.qualitywatertreatment.com/city_water_guide/)? That could be a problem when it comes to excessive tangling. When I don't "chelate" my hair, buildup causes a ton of tangling in my hair, due to dryness, brittleness, etc. Second, do you wear your hair up in protective styles (ex., buns)? I tend to find that keeps my hair a lot more tangle-free compared to when I leave it down.

Sorry my answer may not be much help, my hair is generally manageable with its type and length. Hopefully someone can help identify your issue better than I can... good luck!

Also - welcome to LHC. :)

Dear Aredhel,

Thank you for the information and welcome. :) I did not expect to get responses so fast! I seriously have never thought about the actual water I am using. Since that is not something that I have any control over. I have been using the same water literally forever. I probably would not have even know how to find out what the water in my area was other than just Googling it. So thanks for telling me what it is here and for the link. I had no idea that hard water could do anything to your hair. Do you by chance know why hard water would cause tangles? This may be a stupid question but what is "chelate"? I am not familiar with that term. I do feel like most of my hair is dry and even brittle.

I always keep my hair in a braid. If I go out, I put my braid up into a large clip. I have no idea how to do a bun. Especially on the length of my hair. It's just something I have never learned but would love to. Hopefully it is a simple process. I can in no way shape or form let my hair down EVER. It would be beyond tangled and matted and there would be no saving it.

No need to apologize. You have given me a few things to look into. Which is always helpful. I very much appreciate your help! :)

[Siv]

Do you by chance know why hard water would cause tangles? This may be a stupid question but what is "chelate"? I am not familiar with that term. I do feel like most of my hair is dry and even brittle.


I have really hard water too and looked into it awhile ago! Hard water is rich in minerals such as copper, iron, and the like. Soft water have less minerals either naturally or because the water provider has chelated it - removed the minerals. Minerals cause deposits on your hair; they stick to your hair really well and don't completely come off with regular shampoo. After awhile you get so many layers of minerals on your hair that it starts to tangle, feel dry, lack lustre, etc. I only notice tangles and dryness after a few months or years even, but I try to chelate once a month anyway since I'm fair and notice my colour dulling after only a month. The dryness and tangles come much, much, later and also takes awhile of babying my hair with moisturising treatments to remedy.

A clarifying shampoo is typically a shampoo with strong surfactants - lathering ingredients - that clarify your hair from product build up, from mousses, creams, conditioners, and so on. A chelating shampoo is clarifying and is sometimes marketed as such, but it also clarifies your hair from minerals. Regular clarifying shampoos don't work on mineral build up. You need ingredients like citric acid, tetrasodium EDTA, disodium EDTA in your chelating shampoo. Those ingredients can be used at low levels as preservatives, so you need to check that they are fairly high up in the ingredient list - it shouldn't be one of the last ones if it's used as a chelating ingredient. I've heard that swimmer's shampoos are chelating and generally cheaper than the salon brand chelating shampoos. Do a google search for chelating shampoos - use the advanced option and enter longhaircommunity as the site you want to search (the search function on this site is pretty crap).

[Girlw6ftofHair]

Dear Borgessa,

I just went and grabbed the shampoos and conditioners I use. I wash my hair once a week. So that's how often these are used. Before this whole mess started, I originally, for a good while used Suave Naturals daily clarifying. I used this on my scalp to the hair maybe down to my ears. After a week, there is a bit of buildup of oil and such on my scalp. On the back of the bottle it even says, deep cleaning that helps remove residue. I have seen the word clarifying a bit now and I'm not sure if I know what it means, like I thought I did. I then wash the rest of my hair with Suave Professionals almond + shea butter moisturizing shampoo. It says it is for dry, damaged hair. So I thought it would be good as I feel my hair is dry but it might not be. After washing, rinsing and an attempt to brush out, I would use Garnier Fructis fortifying conditioner triple nutrition. I massaged it into my scalp and the entire length of my hair. Without rinsing, I would put my hair up in a clip while I bathed. Then would attempt to brush my hair out again and rinse.

Since the horrible tangles I have changed my routine a bit and the products I use. I saw a video of a girl with similar length to mine who did not wash her hair but just the scalp. She then used conditioner on it. I have started doing the same. Since I don't wear mine down, it's not getting dirty. It's only my scalp that needs to be washed. I have started washing/conditioning my hair in the braid. I still wash once a week. I literally ran out of the Suave Naturals daily clarifying tonight. Maybe had a dime size amount left in the bottle. So instead of that I am trying Shea Moisture Jamaican Black Castor Oil Strengthen & Restore Shampoo with Shea Butter, Peppermint & Apple Cider Vinegar. Which I randomly found at Wal-mart in the African American hair section. After standing there for literally at least an hour reading every bottle. This is the shampoo I bought. As for conditioner, this is my second wash using Ion repair solutions. Which I got at Sally's. No clue if either will make a difference but maybe I will be able to tell something tomorrow when I brush my hair out. Also a few washes back I tried one of the Biotin shampoos and a conditioner. I used both of them but only used them once as they made my head itch horribly. Maybe I should have tried using them once more but I just couldn't stand the thought of itching like that for another week. They were suggested by a woman at Sally's, the first time I went in there.

As far as leave in products, I was using a detangling spray and a liquid oil. I used these on damp hair after I got out of the shower. So they were also only used once a week. Since then after every wash I have tried a different leave in product plus several detanglers and mixes of the two. Nothing has yet to help. I put these on after I get out of the shower on my damp braid. Then use them again the next day to try and make my hair easier to detangle. Again, this has not helped. I pick and choose what to use when. Like I use more of the detangler products when I am actually trying to brush out my hair. So on and so forth.

Yes it was BEYOND ridiculous! I like much hair stuff am clueless on which oil would work best for my hair. So much so that one time I was in Sally's I told the woman as much and asked if she could suggest which she felt would be best for my hair. She picked out one but it came in a little packed. I would have seriously needed 15 of more but that's just guessing. Plus that would have added up money wise real quick as each one was close to $5. She then said, we have that in a bottle. I of course said I will take that. I had been in the store so long by the time I got ready to checkout I did not even look at the bottle she had sat on the counter. As I was taking everything I bought out of the bag once I was home, I noticed the bottle was just a regular in shower conditioner. I don't know if she picked up the wrong thing or what. Anyways, that's now the conditioner I have been using but still lack an oil treatment. What you use sounds good but I'm not really familiar with those things on there own, so I doubt I could replicate it.

To be honest, you would think I would know a heck of a lot more about hair tips, tricks and products but I simply don't. After all the reading and such I have been doing the last few months, it amazes me I got as far with my hair as I did. If I do have any, I certainly can not think of them at the moment. Thank you for all the help, much appreciated. :)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

Dear Sarahlabyrinth, (One of my fav movies!)

Thank you for the welcome and information. I have been using a clarifying shampoo on my scalp about down to my ears. I thought it might be a little to rough on the rest of my hair. Might have been wrong on that? Is chelating the same thing as clarifying? Can you explain the vinegar rinse to me. I have seen a few people do it and am curious about it. Should I too only do it once a month or every time I wash? Which would technically be 4 times a month give or take. Thanks, I hope so too! :)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

Dear Corvana,

Thanks for the help, it's much appreciated. I'm definitely going to try an oil, once I get a little more info. about the subject. So I can then try and pick out the best one possible for my hair. I have heard about a silk/satin pillowcase being easier on hair. I even used to have one years ago. I am going to see if I can get myself another one. Every little bit helps at this point. By chance do you know where I could find any of those methods. I had not really thought about looking into curly methods bit it's a great idea! Heck yeah they are! And more of one to boot! :)

[Borgessa]

Just go to your local supermarket.. buy organic coconut oil. I use a good grade.. aragan jojoba and rosehip I buy cheaply enough at iherb.com. I have very fine thin dry hair.. so I don't use much oil... I make my mix, honestly the measurements don't matter.. just what ever feels good.. i make a mix of about 2 tablespoons coconut oil and one table spoon of the others... Also what really helped my dryness was conditioner.. I use herbal essence Hello conditioner.. I wet my hair and condition my length only before washing.. I do this 20 to 30 mins before my wash..it's been oil soaked over night as mentioned earlier.. I then shampoo my scalp the suds will rinse down the length on its own... And then condition the length once more.. CWC condition wash condition.. I can't tell u how much this helped me... I'm a newish member.. but maybe this will help you too.

Edited to add.. I forgot to mention after I wash my hair I then use the LOC method which is a curly girl approved method :) L.O.C means Liquid oil conditioner.

The liquid part is your damp hair, not wringing wet, just damp- a few drops of oil, over doing it can make your hair oily, which isn't what we want.. a few drops for me, you would have to figure out how much for 6 feet of hair, for the oil application I use Jojoba or argan, my coconut oil solidifies in the cooler months so not pourable. I think maybe 4 drops it don't take much.. and then the conditioner - a leave in conditioner I use Miracle Hair Treatment by Eleven Australia

[CrowningGlory]

I don't know a lot about chelating shampoo, but, generally speaking, don't shampoo your length, and conditioner from the ears down only. I also wonder if you manipulate your hair too often when it's wet. I think you mentioned brushing out after shampooing and before using conditioner. (Sorry if I have this wrong.) I have wavy hair - only half as much as you - and I pretty much try to leave it alone after washing until it's dry.

My hair isn't that fond of coconut oil. I use a mix of almond and olive oil but I started with just olive oil. I would suggest using a few drops of what you might have available already and see how your hair reacts. You've already spent a lot on products ... I'm just trying to save you some money and the answer may be already in your cupboards.

[Corvana]

I always keep my hair in a braid. If I go out, I put my braid up into a large clip. I have no idea how to do a bun. Especially on the length of my hair. It's just something I have never learned but would love to. Hopefully it is a simple process. I can in no way shape or form let my hair down EVER. It would be beyond tangled and matted and there would be no saving it.


Dear Corvana,

Thanks for the help, it's much appreciated. I'm definitely going to try an oil, once I get a little more info. about the subject. So I can then try and pick out the best one possible for my hair. I have heard about a silk/satin pillowcase being easier on hair. I even used to have one years ago. I am going to see if I can get myself another one. Every little bit helps at this point. By chance do you know where I could find any of those methods. I had not really thought about looking into curly methods bit it's a great idea! Heck yeah they are! And more of one to boot! :)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTH6aLk13wDc9BpAnEsBIiA/feed This is our own Gossamer's youtube, and her hair is floor length. She's got some videos for updos and buns, held with sticks (and probably forks). There are also bun tutorials in the hairstyle of the month section of the forums!

You can buy oils in the oils section of the grocery store. Most that you'd get there would be good on hair (sunflower, olive, almond, avocado, coconut). It's cheaper there, as well, so if your hair likes them you can get a bigger size for a better price. I do suggest getting small bottles if you're trying them out so that you're not wasting them if your hair doesn't like them! Signs your hair is unhappy with your oil: brittle, straw-like, and dry! You can oil your hair before you wash it, in the shower after you've shampooed but before you condition (called an oil rinse, or rinse out oil), or after your shower on damp hair. You can also add a little bit to your ends when they're dry as well if you like. I just started doing the rinse out oil, adding a few drops (my hair is still quite short so I don't need a ton) to my hands and running them through my ends after my shampoo. The warm water helps distribute the oil, and of course if you look you can see the water bead up! That's a good way to make sure you've gotten all of your hair oiled. Then you condition as usual which helps to get rid of any excess oil.

As for the curly girl method, this link https://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/no-poo/the-curly-girl-method-for-coily-hair/ has some info, and I'm sure if you google or search on LHC you'll find more! It's from a book, though, so I'm sure the best information will be in that.

Also, at the bottom of posts there are two buttons that would be useful for replies! The reply with quote button, and the one to its right that's "multi-quote". If you click the multi-quote button, you can then click it on a bunch of other replies. Then for your last quoted reply you can just click the regular reply with quote button and all of the posts you multi-quoted will be there also! Not a requirement or anything, but it can be useful!

[CrowningGlory]

This may seem like a silly question (but I've just taken my braids out and tried to take a shortcut and ended up with tangles which I rarely get) but do you undo your braids the whole way with your fingers before brushing your hair? Whenever I try to speed it up (like tonight) and not undo the braid the whole way, then I run into problems. Just a thought.

And I second the vinegar rinse, having learnt from experience what a difference hard water makes. I even save rain water for rinsing my hair.

[*Seraphina*]

Welcome!
I got your frustration, this most be horrible! I think you are very patient with your hair and I hope that you will find a solution soon.

You said: After washing, rinsing and an attempt to brush out, I would use Garnier Fructis fortifying conditioner triple nutrition. I massaged it into my scalp and the entire length of my hair. Without rinsing, I would put my hair up in a clip while I bathed. Then would attempt to brush my hair out again and rinse.

Do you mean that you leave this conditioner in your hair and after that you put leave-in sprays etc. to your hair? It sounds to be that you are using too many leave-ins in your hair which can cause build-up.

I would try a good ACV rise a couple of times and I would suggest to not use products with contains silicones. For a lot of people (including me) silicones causes build up too.

[*Seraphina*]

I even save rain water for rinsing my hair.

That's cool!

[lapushka]

Maybe your conditioners aren't moisturizing enough. I always, when buying regular drugstore conditioners go for the ones for dry and damaged hair, even though my hair is not dry or damaged, but just because they are THE most moisturizing on the market. It will melt your tangles out. You really do not need expensive products, but you do need to know what to shop for.

I would also clarify with a good sulfate shampoo and then apply a thick conditioner, maybe even twice!

The Garnier Whole Blends line do *great* deep conditioners (the honey one and the olive one especially are great).

This is the best advice I can give you!

Good luck.

[Obsidian]

Clarify= washing away all build up from products and natural oils. To clarify wash properly, you need to wash the entire length
Chelate= to remove hard water build up
You can get a huge bottle of quantum clarifying shampoo at sallys for around $11. It clarifies and chelates. Lather the entire legth, let sit in your hair 5 minutes, lather again then rinse. You might to wash more then once if your hair has a lot of build up.

Do you use a wide tooth comb to detangle in the shower? They are best to use when your hair is covered in conditioner. I'd suggest a new conditioner, two I find to be extra slick are herbal essence hello hydration and aussie 3 minute miracle.

A vinegar rinse is used to help prevent hard water from depositing minerals on your hair. Mix 1 cup water with 1/2-1 teaspoon apple cider vinegar, pour over hair after you have rinsed out your conditioner. You can rinse the vinegar out if you want but I tend to leave it in the hair, the smell will disapear once your hair dries.

[spidermom]

Oh my goodness; I can't imagine trying to care for 6 feet of hair. Classic length was way too much for me. When it was that long, it worked best if I massaged conditioner through my length (never near my scalp), then combed it through with a wide-tooth shower comb. Then I would rinse and try not to mess my hair around too much while it dried. Oiling my hair after washing caused it to attract lots of dust and lint, which made the tangling worse, so I can't recommend it, but each head of hair is different, so who knows for you.

Definitely chelate and use diluted vinegar rinses for the hard water.

[pailin]

As Obsidian said, although normally you only need to shampoo your scalp, for clarifying and/or chelating, you do need to wash the entire length.
I second Lapushka that perhaps your conditioners aren't moisturizing enough. I don't think the ones you've been using would be good enough for me (except the new Shea moisture one - I've never used them so I have no experience). But Suave conditioner does very little for me. I only have half your length but it can be very very tangly; I found a conditioner I love and I even use it twice. I'm convinced that's why I'm finally growing my hair out successfully, which I couldn't in high school (we always had whatever was cheapest in my house). There's usually no need to go to an expensive salon brand though - probably the middle range should have something pretty good. Try oils as well. Be warned, while most people seem to love coconut oil, there are a few of us who get hard tangly ends from it.
One other possibility is protein in conditioner or shampoo (usually they say "hydrolyzed something" - keratin, silk protein, etc. It's good for dry or damaged hair, but some people will get tangles from it.
Silicones in products are often demonized, but a lot of us find them to be lifesavers in terms of tangles. On the other hand some people do get tangles from silicones buildup. All of these are very much YMMV- (your mileage may vary) - you'll have to see what works for you.
When you detangle your hair, is it still wet, or dry? People mentioned curly girl method, but since you never wear your hair down, I'm not sure it would be helpful. I'm very wavy and even using wads of conditioner in the shower, it's much, much harder to detangle my hair wet than dry. The two biggest things that have made my detangling easier are more moisture, and detangling only when hair is dry.
Also I'd highly recommend chelating, or at the very least trying a vinegar rinse.

[Roscata]

Clarifying gets rid of on top of the hair build-up such as sillicones from products, chelating gets rid of inside the hair build-up such as chlorine from pools or iron from had water. The two are very different although there are shampoos that do both chelating and clarifying, and often the names are switched around to cause chaos and confusion lol.

In order to get rid of inside the hair build-up (chelate) you have to leave the shampoo on your hair for 3 minutes because it takes longer to remove such build-up. The instructions themselves should tell you to do that. Chelating shampoos will often have labels such as 'after swimming' or 'pool hair'. Ulta has a shampoo that does that PAUL MITCHELL Clarifying Shampoo Three (http://www.ulta.com/clarifying-shampoo-three?productId=xlsImpprod10271158).

If your problem is build-up, which it sounds like it from your description, you will need to:
- use a chelating AND clarifying shampoo,
- then follow it up with an SMT (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128) which is 4 parts thick creamy conditioner + 1 part honey + 1 part clear aloe vera gel; applied to the hair and left on for at least 30 minutes, then rinsed out (no rewashing).

Try that and report back with the results in case it worked and it could help others, or it didn't work and you need more troubleshooting. I really hope it works, good luck!

[enting]

Hard water is also the first thing that I thought of.

I'm going to add my voice to trying a vinegar rinse. I find that it detangles my hair better than any conditioner ever has. I use it the same way that the curly girl method recommends using conditioner: squish it gently through your hair until hair is saturated with it, then rinse out. I often need to pour a bit more vinegar rinse over my hair as I am combing it wet in the shower. It helps remove mineral buildup and it also smooths the hair cuticle down. Both of those actions will make your hair less grabby.

The water in my area is also incredibly hard, to the point that tap water tastes really bad to me, too. There are apparently water filters that you can attach to the shower, but I don't know much about them. That may also help.

If you boil water in a kettle, do you get a coating on the inside of the kettle eventually? That would be mineral buildup. If you are familiar with what I'm talking about, that's basically what's sticking to your hair if you don't use something to remove those minerals from your hair.

When curly/wurly hair gets wet and then dries with tangles still in the hair, it can make the hair even harder to detangle for some people. This may be part of why your tangles are getting worse. They may be building on top of each other.

On the topic of oils for you hair, as someone mentioned above, there are different ways of using oils: on dry hair, on wet hair, before washing hair, during hair washing, and after washing on damp hair. Some ways may give your hair more slip, other ways may make your hair seem sticky.

Other things you could try are skin moisturizer/lotion, glycerin or aloe vera gel, or something like an SMT (this is a mixture of gel, conditioner, and honey or some other syrup as a humectant). You may have a lot of experimenting ahead of you, if you have the patience :blossom:

This site is a great resource for ideas on detangling and bunning, even for your length! I hope you find useful solutions (pun intended) soon!

Is it weird if your post makes me want to get a group of local LHCers to meet up with you and have a group detangling session and treatment for your hair?

[Wildcat Diva]

I have hard water and I get horrible tangles. Chelating makes a big difference for me. If I go on vacation somewhere else that has soft water, I am struck by an immedient difference (improvement) as soon as I wash my hair there.

Also I second switching to a silicone conditioner sometimes and Hello Hydration in the blue bottle is a slick one I would recommend for a grocery store brand.

[Chromis]

Roscata's advice above is nearly word-for-word what I was going to say!

I know that my hair behaved the same way after years of build-up. Also, many places switch their water supply at different times during the year, so you might find your hair acts worse in some seasons than others. In addition to the estimates of your city's pH and water hardness you can find on line, these are actually pretty simple things to test for. If you have a PetsMart in town, take them a water sample, they can test for pH, GH, and KH which are the ones to pay the most attention to. (They will also test ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates since these are things that concern fish keepers.) Pool stores or water softener stores will often do the tests for you as well. This is for fish, but if those terms confuse you, here is a good article that will give a basic explanation: https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/understanding-ph-kh-gh-in-home-aqauriums.113548/

Here and a few other places I have lived, the water is so hard that I do an acidic rinse every wash to keep the minerals from building up so badly. I do it at the end of my wash and then briefly dunk my head back under the water for a second or two to help it go through my hair better and not smell as bad. I dip my length into my rinse container and then pour it over. The difference is like magic. My hair goes from feeling squeaky to silky. (I use shampoo bars, which would likely be an advanced level of experimentation for you right now since they have a steep learning curve.)

I'm guessing you already know not to pile your hair on top of your head, but I always like to mention that because it was one of my one mistakes! I originally came to the forums here many years ago because I too was tired of shedding and tangling. So many tangles! I have learned not to use a brush, but rather a wide comb and that my hair hates being handled when wet. I comb it when it is dry, unlike many of our curly members.

I do suggest learning how to put it up. My braid tassel gets tangled if left alone and is a pain to undo. For non-braided long, long styling, my favourite is the log roll. For braided styles, try a braided nautilus bun. These are two of the easiest I can think of. Another YouTube channel that should be of help for you is TorrinPaige

[enting]

snip~ I dip my length into my rinse container and then pour it over. ~snip

I have been toying with the idea of doing this myself rather than just pouring it over and squishing, but I wasn't sure if that was a safe thing to try (I use a strong dilution). Is there a significant improvement with dipping the length in vs just pouring over?

Do you think it might be helpful/harmful to actually soak OP's tangled hair in diluted vinegar?

[Chromis]

I have been toying with the idea of doing this myself rather than just pouring it over and squishing, but I wasn't sure if that was a safe thing to try (I use a strong dilution). Is there a significant improvement with dipping the length in vs just pouring over?

Do you think it might be helpful/harmful to actually soak OP's tangled hair in diluted vinegar?

Soaking it in vinegar is unlikely to help. It mostly keeps the hair from getting more build up, but is likely not enough to remove it by itself. (The difference in soaking pans and such with bad mineral deposits in vinegar versus citric acid is pretty incredible!) Before I got a water softener I preferred a combo of ACV and citric acid, but I think a regular chelating shampoo such as the ones for swimmers might be better in her case. I have knee length hair, so I really need to dip it in order to actually make sure I am getting my length. I had to dip it at tailbone too, but shorter *might* be able to get away with pouring it over? I'd have to check back in the shampoo bar thread to see how long my hair was when I started using them, but it was probably already nearly waist and dipping worked much better even by then.

I too use a strong dilution and have used even stronger in the past (we have the hardest water in Canada). I found an older thread with ratios used by myself and other people for the citric acid: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=119072 With very hard water, I found that combination to be best. You might also check out the "miracle water" threads.

Here is my standard long form advise:

The simplest cheap solution and the one I rely on are acidic rinses. I like to use local apple cider vinegar and before I lived somewhere I had access to this I used the organic stuff "with the mother" (Braggs is a common brand). I find this smells and works better than the big cheap jugs and the stuff lasts a long time. Did I mention it smells better? With super hard water, I also like to use citric acid. My blend living in one of the hardest water areas in all of Canada is a glug of ACV in a two-cup measure and a pinch of citric acid (about 1/16-1/8 tsp). Then I filled the cup up the rest of the way with tap water in the shower. I dunk my ends in first for a few seconds at least and then I tip my head back and pour it over. I follow this with a very quick rinse under the showerhead again. Really just lean back and then out again. Quick! I find this helps make sure it got in my hair fully.

With the softener or in places with softer water to start with, I could use just the ACV or the citric acid and I could use a more diluted mixture. You'll want to play with your dilutions. Many people use the same amount of acid as me...except they use a pitcher instead of a two-cup measure

Basically, when you pour the acidic rinse over your head, your hair should fall all silky immediately. If it still feels a little tacky when you get out, make your mix stronger. If it goes limp and greasy way faster than however long this would normally take for your hair, back off on your mix.

[lapushka]

I second Lapushka that perhaps your conditioners aren't moisturizing enough. I don't think the ones you've been using would be good enough for me (except the new Shea moisture one - I've never used them so I have no experience). But Suave conditioner does very little for me. I only have half your length but it can be very very tangly;

I have used the Suave coconut, and it is a *very* light conditioner, much like the Inecto coconut, even lighter, so up your conditioner game, I say! The Garnier Whole Blends line is a good one!

[Cherriezzzzz]

My daughter has super long tangling hair... that she inherited from me and my grandmother before me :) Working in the hair industry I've not seen a single product that works better then:

CITRE SHINE ANTI FRIZZ SERUM

Another name you may see on the bottle;

Citre shine shine miracle highly laminating anti frizz serum.

It's from Schwarzkopf & Henkel

Yes I've used it and continue to do so. I put it on wet, freshly washed hair. And I've had success with it using hard water.
It's at Wal-Mart etc.

Also, coconut oil applied on dry hair, before you wash. Let it sit on your hair overnight!

From one tangle prone to another, I know this will save you!

[enting]

Thanks for the detailed response Chromis :)

[pili]

I can really offer any more advice than has already been posted by people way more experienced than I, but I did want to wish you good luck in finding something that works!

[meteor]

Hi and welcome aboard, Girlw6ftofHair! :)

You already got some excellent advice here, and I agree with experimenting with thorough chelating, some basic carrier oils and slippy silicone conditioners for detangling.
One of the biggest things I'd try right now would be to try *not* brushing in the shower with wet hair... that might be the thing that caused the braid to become noticeably thinner, as you mentioned - maybe caused by some breakage due to wet brushing? Some people do better with wide-tooth comb only and/or detangling only once the hair is completely dry or slightly wet. You might need to try a few detangling approaches to see what minimizes tangling and breakage for you the most. And try thoroughly detangling *before* you even begin washing it, if you don't already do that.

And of course, one of the biggest helpers should be learning some updo(s). They really greatly help prevent tangles. If you already wear a braid 24/7, just try to pin it up in some simple fashion. :flower: For example, here is Lazy Wrap Bun for long hair (just use your braid to wrap it) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08Sqx1uuCdE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNK0EPX7G1Q
And I am partial to braided L-Infinity (because it balances heavy hair) - here's a double-wrapped version for long hair - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3EcIu22znA
There is also this simplified braided Chinese bun (you can do it with 1 braid, too) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n98D0j8Ypfg
Check out JJJLongHair / LadyLongLocks on YouTube - I think her updo videos might help - https://www.youtube.com/user/JJJLongHair4u2c/videos

I hope you'll find good solutions that work for you pretty soon and your hair will feel tangle-free again! :pray: :cheer:

[MusicalSpoons]

Okay, firstly 6ft of hair? :thud: That is awesome!
*ahem* Welcome!

I'm really sorry to read of your frustrations with tangles, and I can't even begin to imagine having that much patience to spend 7-8 hours detangling it! You've had plenty of great advice already and I really, really hope that some of it helps. But further to that advice, this part of your post struck me:


Yesterday I randomly linked a recent hair trim. Which I don't do nearly as often as I should. To around the time the tangles started. Not sure if this has anything to do with it but thought it was worth mentioning just because as far as I can remember they were around the same time. I always thought having a trim would help detangle, which was certainly not the case this time around if they are connected.

Trims are supposed to help with tangling - if the trim is chopping off split ends at the bottom that would otherwise be catching and tangling with the rest of the non-split hair; but as the tangles are midway then it's unlikely the trim would have helped.

This might sound a bit weird, but how exactly was your hair trimmed? I mean, did they detangle first then gently run a comb through the lengths all the way to the ends, then snip off with hair scissors? (If you had it professionally done then hair scissors should be a given, or even by someone you trust, but just checking.) The reason I ask is because if your hair wasn't thoroughly detangled and whoever trimmed it kinda yanked* a plastic, fine-toothed comb through it, it may be possible they did some damage with the comb. Not all of your hairs are the same length at once, so it could have split ends of hairs that are partway up the length, or even ripped through some knots / broken off hairs partway, which would then leave very grabby damaged ends in amongst your length that would cause more tangling.
*I mean 'yanked' as in relatively - not hard enough to cause you pain or anything, but harder than they should have. years before I learned about decent haircare.]

Anyway, I look forward to hearing how you get on, and of course I truly hope you do find something from all the advice here that works for you :flower:

[MsPharaohMoan]

Welcome! I'll echo the great advice of clarifying/chelating your lengths then using a moisturizing treatment. I like sealing my moisturizing treatments in with leave-in or oil. I'll also add a shameless plug for the tangle teaser brush. For both wet and dry hair, detangling with the tt is way easier and gentler than using a wide tooth comb. Your mileage may vary, of course, but I thought I'd mention it.

In the meantime, :popcorn:

[Cherriezzzzz]

We'd ALL love to see a pic of 6ft of hair...

Just saying what everyone's thinking ;)

We're kinda long hair obsessed here haha
I'd stand in a line to help brush it for you!

:toast::popcorn::blossom::cheese::applause::happyd ance::joy::bottomsup::thudpile::

[MsPharaohMoan]

We'd ALL love to see a pic of 6ft of hair...

Just saying what everyone's thinking ;)

:rollin: this is EXACTLY what I was thinking! No pressure OP... but I bet it's beautiful haha

[Sarahlabyrinth]

[QUOTE=Cherriezzzzz;3448832]We'd ALL love to see a pic of 6ft of hair...

Just saying what everyone's thinking ;)

We're kinda long hair obsessed here haha
I'd stand in a line to help brush it for you!

:toast::popcorn::blossom:

Haha, yes, we would all like to see 6 feet of hair :) You have been given oodles of great advice. if your buildup is very bad you may need to clarify/chelate several times to get rid of it (putting shampoo on all of your hair rather than just the scalp area as usual). Follow up with a good moisturising conditioner, then a vinegar rinse. I'm sure you will see an improvement.

[papayatree]

Welcome to the site. All the advice above is pretty good, so I would use their advice. 6 Feet of Hair? Wow! That's really long!

[Corvana]

I always, when buying regular drugstore conditioners go for the ones for dry and damaged hair, even though my hair is not dry or damaged, but just because they are THE most moisturizing on the market.

I get them as well. Generally Tresemme Moisture Rich because it's like $6 for 32oz, and I condition twice as well. The first time to add slip so that the second condition more easily reaches all of my hair and detangling is easier.


I'd suggest a new conditioner, two I find to be extra slick are herbal essence hello hydration and aussie 3 minute miracle.

I'd like to add L'oreal Nature's Therapy Mega Moisture to the list of nice and slick. It's thick, so it won't drip off, and it made my hair slippery for a week. Of course I did use it, squeeze it into my hair, detangle, and then leave it in for like 5+ minutes before rinsing it out in cold water.

Do you rinse in cold water, OP? That's been a bit of a new thing for me, and I've noticed a little bit of difference. My hair is a bit softer after and tangles a little less.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

I would also love to see photos. Im sure your hair is probably just in need of a clarifying and chelating, and DT with ACV.
my hair is similar, its probably not as bad as you think :) even at my length i get mad tangles.

[Quixii]

We'd ALL love to see a pic of 6ft of hair...

Just saying what everyone's thinking ;)

We're kinda long hair obsessed here haha
I'd stand in a line to help brush it for you!

:popcorn::blossom::cheese::applause::happydance::j oy::bottomsup::thudpile::
:lol: I was also thinking this. Especially being in the wurly-curly spectrum for long hair - I've never seen hair as long as or longer than mine that wasn't straight or nearly straight.

It's been interesting for me to read about the advice for hard water - I'm about to move somewhere with very hard water, so I may be about to need it!

Do you use leave in conditioners at all? I've been using Shea Moisture's Deep Treatment as a leave in. It's pretty thick, but that can be nice for tangly-curly-wavy hair that needs a leave in.

How are you brushing/detangling your hair? I think most people are familiar with the idea of starting at the bottom and working your way up, but it's always a good reminder. Additionally, once I get it at all detangled enough to separate sections, I like to separate my hair into 2-5 sections and carefully detangle each section one at a time, and then clip the detangled sections out of the way so they don't get retangled or join in with the other sections yet. I find this helps me a lot, rather than trying to tackle the whole thing and having bits I worked on retangle with the tangles left.

[lapushka]

I get them as well. Generally Tresemme Moisture Rich because it's like $6 for 32oz, and I condition twice as well. The first time to add slip so that the second condition more easily reaches all of my hair and detangling is easier.

Yay, go us! :cheer:

I first thought that this was common knowledge, but apparently it isn't (trust me, we might know this, but not everybody does). I do, however, use different shampoos, never sets, because my roots have different needs (oily).

[Renora25]

I just have to say this... 6 FEET OF HAIR! Congrats on that amazing length! That is long hair than me which is like... amaz-balls.

[Corvana]

Yay, go us! :cheer:

I first thought that this was common knowledge, but apparently it isn't (trust me, we might know this, but not everybody does). I do, however, use different shampoos, never sets, because my roots have different needs (oily).

I just thought I had very dry hair, honestly! That and I dislike the squeaky feeling left from most conditioners, so I tend to seek out ones that don't give me that and that's always been ones that are for dry hair! But even with that some brands don't do well for me (Pantene and standard HE, but I haven't tried their 3MM). I just don't like when they rinse too "cleanly", because it feels like it did nothing at all!

[JadedByEntropy]

wow i have half the hair you do! thats amazing you grew it so long all on your own skill!

I do really suggest Gossamer's youtube as well for info on looong hair updos. Braids may no longer be your friend???
I'm glad you took note of the last trim- i've felt like i only get tangles at the ends of my hair because I don't trim anything but the ends. I think cut hairs tend to grab each other easier than the pointed never-cut hairs do. It can't be helped, and it doesn't sound like you have any shorter layers, but breakage might be breaking off neighbor hairs.
A good S&D (seek and destroy) (individual problem-hair trim) to remove splits or breakage might help? Maybe thats for later on...

I found the Garnier Fructis fortifying conditioner triple nutrition fantastic for about two months and then the buildup was so bad it was like glue in my hair. Glad you moved away from that.

Yes, i also use the curly girl method, with cheap Suave conditioners (any scent, i rotate them for fun) $1 for a huge bottle. It has reduced frizz and eliminated tangles. I used to get the tangle-balls too! When i dye my hair, i get more of them. now i only get tangles from overly-quickly braiding and getting strands weaving through other braid-strands.

also, you might consider the position which you wash your hair? I'm not sure it causes tangles, but if you do upside down as a lot of us do, you might want to be careful how the long tail flips over? might be tangling getting in/out of the hair washing?

Apple cider vinegar rinses can be very helpful! It stripped out all the buildup I had without stripping the oils out of my hair! it was so amazing! I only do them when i feel buildup causing issues, so maybe once every 3-4 months. One big red solo cup filled with 1 cup of the ACV and then water to top it off so it dilutes a bit. Then i water-rinse it out a bit to make sure its off of my scalp. Haven't had itching or issues. You may want to use it only on the length.

Welcome to the site, and i hope you find some threads that can help.

[Dark40]

I would go to anyone of your local beauty supply stores and buy you some Mane and Tail Detangler Spray. My mother's hair gets tangled all of the time even though her hair isn't 6 feet long but it's BSL, and after every wash she has to use the detangling spray.

[animetor7]

First of all, welcome!!! And wow, that's a lot of hair!! I think that what the others have said about chelating, clarifying, and finding a richer, possibly coney conditioner will all help, as will trying wide tooth combs rather than a brush and learning some buns. So I don't have a ton to add, but just want to welcome you and wish you good luck with detangling your hair and keeping it manageable!! And please do update us to tell us if something worked or didn't so that we can help troubleshoot. So welcome and good luck!!! :)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

All I can say is WOW!!! I got on a few hours back to see if I had any new replies, thinking I might have a few. 46 replies and 5 pages later and I just can't believe it! All that occurred in just shy of 24 hours! It is going to take me a good while to read through everyone's posts. I already know it's going to be a complete information overload and totally overwhelming! With that being said, I look forward to reading everything. Thank you to everyone who replied! I TRULY appreciate it! I am going to TRY and reply to everyone but that might take me a day or so. Here I go! Wish me luck...and sanity! :)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

I have really hard water too and looked into it awhile ago! Hard water is rich in minerals such as copper, iron, and the like. Soft water have less minerals either naturally or because the water provider has chelated it - removed the minerals. Minerals cause deposits on your hair; they stick to your hair really well and don't completely come off with regular shampoo. After awhile you get so many layers of minerals on your hair that it starts to tangle, feel dry, lack lustre, etc. I only notice tangles and dryness after a few months or years even, but I try to chelate once a month anyway since I'm fair and notice my colour dulling after only a month. The dryness and tangles come much, much, later and also takes awhile of babying my hair with moisturising treatments to remedy.

A clarifying shampoo is typically a shampoo with strong surfactants - lathering ingredients - that clarify your hair from product build up, from mousses, creams, conditioners, and so on. A chelating shampoo is clarifying and is sometimes marketed as such, but it also clarifies your hair from minerals. Regular clarifying shampoos don't work on mineral build up. You need ingredients like citric acid, tetrasodium EDTA, disodium EDTA in your chelating shampoo. Those ingredients can be used at low levels as preservatives, so you need to check that they are fairly high up in the ingredient list - it shouldn't be one of the last ones if it's used as a chelating ingredient. I've heard that swimmer's shampoos are chelating and generally cheaper than the salon brand chelating shampoos. Do a google search for chelating shampoos - use the advanced option and enter longhaircommunity as the site you want to search (the search function on this site is pretty crap).

Dear Siv,

Thank you for all the information! Your post was highly informative. It kind of makes me mad that I never even thought about the water. If it turns out to be the problem, I'm seriously going to laugh. It has a pretty simple fix. Which I am super thankful for! It seems like getting a chelated shampoo for my next wash should be one of the first things to try. I wish our water provider chelated the water. If they did, maybe this would not even be an issue. Or at least less of one. Tempted to find out why they don't, just out of complete curiosity. This might be a stupid question but can there ever be enough mineral build up on your hair to actually see it, to know that is the/a problem? My hair is all of those things! It's crazy to think something as simple as water can COMPLETELY screw up your hair. Should I only use a chelating shampoo once a month? Should I start out using it every time I wash my hair for a few washes, since I have never (to my knowledge) used one before?

[Siv]

Dear Siv,

Thank you for all the information! Your post was highly informative. It kind of makes me mad that I never even thought about the water. If it turns out to be the problem, I'm seriously going to laugh. It has a pretty simple fix. Which I am super thankful for! It seems like getting a chelated shampoo for my next wash should be one of the first things to try. I wish our water provider chelated the water. If they did, maybe this would not even be an issue. Or at least less of one. Tempted to find out why they don't, just out of complete curiosity. This might be a stupid question but can there ever be enough mineral build up on your hair to actually see it, to know that is the/a problem? My hair is all of those things! It's crazy to think something as simple as water can COMPLETELY screw up your hair. Should I only use a chelating shampoo once a month? Should I start out using it every time I wash my hair for a few washes, since I have never (to my knowledge) used one before?

Oh gosh, difficult questions. I'll try to answer them in order!

Personally, my hair feels similar when I get protein overload - brittle, lack-lustre, dry, tangly, etc. It also feels that way when I haven't clarified properly. I use a clarifying shampoo every time I shampoo, but if I've done a super heavy oiling it might not be enough, and I experience those problems. So it might not be the water, it might be a protein problem, or a product build up problem - or something else all-together. Also, in difference to my hair, your hair may feel horrible in a different way when you experience product build up, or protein build up, or mineral build up - it all depends on your hair type. Mineral build up, as we discussed is remedied by chelating, product build up by clarifying, and protein build up also by clarifying. You can tell if your products have proteins in them by looking for ingredients that contain "keratin", "protein", and "hydrolyzed --" (eg. hydrolyzed wheat protein, hydrolyzed keratin, etc.). Hair needs a bit of protein, but not too much!

Where I live, the water provider has had an ongoing project for the last decade to chelate the water in all areas they operate in. It's been a decade now, and they seem to chelate all areas little by little, so where I live we used to have super-duper-extra-crazy-hard water, but now we only have "very hard water". Some areas have soft water already, some also have very hard water, and on the outskirts they still have super-duper-hard water.

As for other ways of telling if you have mineral build up - I'm not sure. I'm light blonde and my hair takes on a "lank" colour, like greyish, dull, just blah. At our cabin, where the water is very high in copper, it can take on a reddish tint. If you get like what I call "calcium deposits" in your wet areas - like the water tap, kitchen sink, bath tub, and so on - that's a way to tell you have hard water, I guess. (I'm not sure if it's calcium specifically, but it's some sort of mineral) I don't know of any other ways to tell, and I don't know if someone with darker hair would notice a colour difference either.

And how often you clarify is sort of up to you and your hair. Since chelating shampoos are often quite harsh, if I were you, I would probably chelate now and then time how long it takes before you get mineral build up again - let's say it takes a month. Then I would chelate again, and next time I'd chelate after maybe three weeks, to be on the safe side.

By the way, it's been mentioned already, but there are several DIY methods of chelating your hair. You can make a citric acid rinse, for one, or rinse with diluted white vinegar, or diluted apple cider vinegar. That way you don't need to get an extra product if you find that you don't need to chelate all that often! I've had some success with rinsing my hair with diluted white vinegar, letting it sit for ~30 min, and then washing as usual.

[pili]

OP, I just noticed that you have C hair. Not everyone is the same, but most C hair types also tent to be protein sensitive. So that may be part of the issue too.

[ko6kin]

OP, I just noticed that you have C hair. Not everyone is the same, but most C hair types also tent to be protein sensitive. So that may be part of the issue too.

Pili, could you tell me how do you know which type of hair is protein, or anything really, sensitive, please? Is there anywhere i can read about this?

[_fred_]

All I can say is WOW!!! I got on a few hours back to see if I had any new replies, thinking I might have a few. 46 replies and 5 pages later and I just can't believe it! All that occurred in just shy of 24 hours! It is going to take me a good while to read through everyone's posts. I already know it's going to be a complete information overload and totally overwhelming! With that being said, I look forward to reading everything. Thank you to everyone who replied! I TRULY appreciate it! I am going to TRY and reply to everyone but that might take me a day or so. Here I go! Wish me luck...and sanity! :)

Just stopping by to wish you the best of luck with this! I know we'll all be keen to see how you get along. :cheer: :blossom:

[Ligeia Noire]

Oh Lord, I felt stressed just by reading, I imagine what you go through and yes first thing that came to mind, like most here said is chelate. I did not even know water could be the cause of tangling and brittle hair until I moved continents. My hair is not nearly as long as yours. It is only to my knees but it is wavy and thick and it was always prone to tangles and dry but not like when I moved. It frustrated me to the point of wanting to cut it. Until I learnt how to deal with the weather and water. I bought a chelate shampo. Malibu is the name of it and I always wear my hair in a Chinese braided bun because braids do not help with tangles if let down. You braid your hair normally and wrap the braid around a stick or wind the braid and secure it with claw clips. Life saver. You know what saved me too, as always... A very thick conditioner, water filter head and vinegar rinse. I cannot afford a water softener so I just bought a shower head filter... like 30 dollars and you change the filter every six months. So easy. About the vinegar rinse. It helps stabilizing the ph of your scalp after washing since the water filter does not get the water rid of minerals. I use disttiled water in a jug. Like a cup or so and two caps of apple cider vinegar. I dip my hair in it and then pour over my scalp and do not rinse with anything else as it would take me back to square one. Really helps with shine and tangles. But what really makes a difference on detangling after washing is a very thick conditioner, the more silicones it has the best. Pantene was always a life saver for me. When I chelate my hair gets stripped of the natural oils and it gets tangled even more. I do not attempt to separate strands or comb the conditioner through I just slather it in. A good portion of it. Pin the hair up with a claw clip and leave it for at least half an hour. Then I just let the water pour down and voila.... magic happens. It is possible to comb again. I do comb after showering because I honestly cannot get a comb through my hair if let dry but only when my hair is out of the shower. So yeah most of what was said already. Chelate to get it rid of minerals, they are really a nightmare that causes most of your tangles I bet and then a lot of condition to give your hair slip. And when you feel like it and your hair behaves better please post a photo. I bet we are all waiting to admire your stunning length. I am. I am imagining your hair must be something else! Welcome!

[Arctic]

All I can say is WOW!!! I got on a few hours back to see if I had any new replies, thinking I might have a few. 46 replies and 5 pages later and I just can't believe it! All that occurred in just shy of 24 hours! It is going to take me a good while to read through everyone's posts. I already know it's going to be a complete information overload and totally overwhelming! With that being said, I look forward to reading everything. Thank you to everyone who replied! I TRULY appreciate it! I am going to TRY and reply to everyone but that might take me a day or so. Here I go! Wish me luck...and sanity! :)

Dear GW6FOH, be kind to yourself and give yourself "amnesty" from answering to every post. It's ok, really! The mmost important thing for the commenters wishing to be helpful is to know you have read the comments. Welcome to LHC and I hope your hair woes will be history soon!

[PrincessAralin]

One of the biggest things I'd try right now would be to try *not* brushing in the shower with wet hair... that might be the thing that caused the braid to become noticeably thinner, as you mentioned - maybe caused by some breakage due to wet brushing? Some people do better with wide-tooth comb only and/or detangling only once the hair is completely dry or slightly wet. You might need to try a few detangling approaches to see what minimizes tangling and breakage for you the most. And try thoroughly detangling *before* you even begin washing it, if you don't already do that.


This in a big way! For me personally, brushing or even combing while wet is an exercise in breakage and failure, no matter how much conditioner is involved. I do a tiny bit of finger detangling with a boat-load of conditioner at a push, but in my personal experience the less I handle my hair while it's wet and fragile, the better.

Welcome to the fold, Girlw6ftofHair, I hope something you find here will work for you. :)

[pili]

Pili, could you tell me how do you know which type of hair is protein, or anything really, sensitive, please? Is there anywhere i can read about this?

ko6kin, Have you seen this: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=120052

I'd start there. There is almost an overwhelming amount of info on these boards. And a lot of what you read may not work on you. I think we all have gone through quite a bit of experimentation, but starting out with a base of knowledge helps in knowing what direction to start in. There is a Coarse Hair thread on that list. Start there. There is also a protein sensitive thread somewhere. Read labels and take note of things that show up on products that do work for you and on products that don't.

[Girlw6ftofHair]

I just wanted to thank everyone again for all the comments and help. I have finally been able to go through and read everything. My next wash I am going to try an ACV rinse. Which I have some questions on. First of all, the ratio. I have read tons of posts on my own on the subject and see that it really is a whatever works best for you and your hair. However, I was wondering what I should start at and how I know if it's right, if I need to add more or use less of something? As much hair as I have, I am thinking I will need a good bit to completely soak all of my hair. I have yet to find something to put the rinse in. I'm also not really sure how much to make at once either. I don't know if a spray bottle would be the best for me, since I have so much hair. It would take FOREVER to spray enough to soak my hair. My next question is, everyone says do this in the shower. I have read do it before you condition but have also read to do it after and even some who do it before shampooing. Am I correct in thinking this should be the last thing I do? Like shampoo and condition then use the rinse? I have also read some people rinse out and some do not. Which one is best or sounds like it would be best for me? I'm curious does it actually HAVE to be done in the shower? My thinking is if it is the last step and you do not rinse it out, could I do it after I get out of the shower? I was thinking I could soak my scalp and braid in a bowl. This just sounds easier to me than doing it in the shower. If it's okay to do this, once my hair is soaked, I take it and wring it out into the bowl, until it's just damp. Should I then keep what's left over in the bowl since my hair is newly clean or should I just dump it out? You all have no idea how big of a help you all have been. It feels really good to have a kind of support system when it comes to my hair, as silly as that may sound. Anyone who can advise me on this next step, that would be super! Thanks so much! :)

[animetor7]

I just wanted to thank everyone again for all the comments and help. I have finally been able to go through and read everything. My next wash I am going to try an ACV rinse. Which I have some questions on. First of all, the ratio. I have read tons of posts on my own on the subject and see that it really is a whatever works best for you and your hair. However, I was wondering what I should start at and how I know if it's right, if I need to add more or use less of something? As much hair as I have, I am thinking I will need a good bit to completely soak all of my hair. I have yet to find something to put the rinse in. I'm also not really sure how much to make at once either. I don't know if a spray bottle would be the best for me, since I have so much hair. It would take FOREVER to spray enough to soak my hair. My next question is, everyone says do this in the shower. I have read do it before you condition but have also read to do it after and even some who do it before shampooing. Am I correct in thinking this should be the last thing I do? Like shampoo and condition then use the rinse? I have also read some people rinse out and some do not. Which one is best or sounds like it would be best for me? I'm curious does it actually HAVE to be done in the shower? My thinking is if it is the last step and you do not rinse it out, could I do it after I get out of the shower? I was thinking I could soak my scalp and braid in a bowl. This just sounds easier to me than doing it in the shower. If it's okay to do this, once my hair is soaked, I take it and wring it out into the bowl, until it's just damp. Should I then keep what's left over in the bowl since my hair is newly clean or should I just dump it out? You all have no idea how big of a help you all have been. It feels really good to have a kind of support system when it comes to my hair, as silly as that may sound. Anyone who can advise me on this next step, that would be super! Thanks so much! :)

Okay, so with regards to the strength of the vinegar rinse to start with maybe use a half cup of vinegar or so in a gallon to make enough for your hair. You can then assess this and see if it is strong enough or not. If your hair still feels tangly after this strength it isn't strong enough and you'll need to add some more vinegar for next time. If your hair feels slippery, but a bit dried out, it was too strong and it's best to go with less vinegar for the next time.

The bowl idea I think would work well. Here's a video from a member on this forum who has floor length hair and how she handles washing, conditioning, and her vinegar rinse. Not as much hair as you have, but some of the methods might still be helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPUnBy9Ntus

Finally, I wouldn't save the vinegar rinse water and I'd start with rinsing the vinegar rinse out of your hair rather than leaving it in to avoid drying out your hair too much which might lead to tangles.

The best of luck to you!! And I'm glad we can be of help. As others have said, don't feel pressured to respond to each of us individually if you don't want to. Just keep us updated generally so we can continue to help. :) :flower:

[littlestarface]

Just wondering, how long is 6ft of hair on you?

[Ligeia Noire]

I sometimes rinse it in the sink so my hair soaks it all up, which is way easier to do if I have my head down... and for the solution do not use the same water with which you shower, it might be obvious but some people do not know, use distilled... I use one cup with two caps of acv but that might not be enough for you, it all depends on how your hair reacts. One thing is for sure you do not need a lot of vinegar to make it work. Also I do it as my final rinse otherwise I do not see the purpose of it. I mean it is supposed to balance your scalp's ph after you have washed with hard water if you go back and rinse it, it defeats the purpose. Unless you do it with more distilled water or spring water. It is probably a lot of info to take in, do not feel overwhelmed, try what you can, one thing at a time. There are tons of great people with great and different perspectives here to help. Good luck

[JadedByEntropy]

yes, if hard water is contributing to the issue, distilled might be a good thought for now. Could be expensive per use. You do Not have to do the vinegar every wash! only as necessary. Once you feel the benefit, you will also feel when it is the right time to do it again. I would not worry too much about letting it soak in the solution or for any set period of time either, as it will absorb some as it drys. its a rinse and go kind of finishing move when i do it.

Edit: if you wanted to do it in the shower without having to find space for a tub or anything special to do it in, you could prepare it in one of those hair-dye bottles with the squirt tip to squeeze it onto the scalp/length as needed. Some people do that with oils. They make pretty big bottles, or you could re-purpose a larger squirt bottle like ketchup... I've actually just convinced myself to do this instead of my current method :laugh: while typing it

[Xan]

Hello all! New member here and can finally post to the forums. I was told about the site by several people while on my hunt for help online. As long as I have had long hair, which has been pretty much forever, I had never thought about a site like this. Happy that it exists! If I can not find help here, than I don't think I will have any option but to cut a good portion of my hair off. I apologize in advance for the length this is going to be but I want to be as detailed as possible.

So as the title says, I have 6 feet (yes really) of virgin hair, maybe more if it were pulled straight. It is quite thick and SUPER wavy. I do not use a blow dryer or any other heated tools. Several months back out of nowhere my hair started to HORRIBLY tangle. My hair has always had horrible tangles. Even when it was shorter. To the point where I have been told, I have never seen anyones hair tangle like that. However, it has started to tangle MUCH worse. I am simply at a total loss. I had not changed anything in my routine. I never wear my hair down and haven't for at least 5 years. The only time it is down is when I would get in the shower to wash/condition it. Then back up in the braid after I spent a few hours trying to untangle it. It is now taking me 8 hours to untangle. I am in no way exaggerating! I have been timing it for the last several months and I am averaging between 7 and a bit over 8 hours. I just can't do this anymore. I literally have anxiety about it throughout the week. I have spent the last few months Googling everything I can think of. I went out and bought the most suggested/top rated brushes. Including the Wet Brush Original, Tangle Teezer Original, Tangle Tamer and several other brushes. None of them have really helped. The majority of them I could not even get my hair through. I have continued to use the Wet Brush as it seems to work the best out of all of them. I have been to Sally's Beauty multiple times and bought everything they have suggested. I have spent over an hour in the store each time as everything in there SOUNDS good. The women there really don't know what to tell me as they said they have never dealt with such long hair. So far out of the multiple things I have tried, nothing has helped with the tangles. I also went to Ulta Beauty and spoke with the Salon Manager. She really could not help either. She could only think of two products that were sold in store that might help. I ended up not buying either as one was $25 and the other was $30 something. Both were like 4ox bottles, so I would need more than one. I just can't spend that kind of money. Especially after all the others things I have bought recently. It added up super quick! The only other thing she could suggest was some kind of oil treament or something that they do at the salon. She said it normally takes 4 hours. She could not even guess how long mine would take. One of the girls that worked there who I spoke to first told me about it and that she had done it. She had shoulder length hair and she paid over $200 for it. I asked the manager how much it would cost to do mine and she said guessing over $1000. Plus, it only last for several months. I was definitely disappointed as I don't have that kind of money. So that one is definitely out.

The time it takes for me to take a shower, do everything to my hair that I need to while in the shower, plus everything I need to do to it when I get out, has just became too much. So, 3 or 4 washes ago, I decided to leave my hair in the braid while washing/conditioning. I then tried taking it down after I got out to brush out and the next time leaving it until the next day to brush out. Both had the same result with no difference. Even after spending 8 hours brushing it out and when I say that it is with the brush but mostly with my fingers as the brush just won't get the tangles out. My hair is STILL a tangled mess. Even though it did not move and nothing touched it and I detangled literally strand by strand, it's right back to where it was. Which sounds impossible but apparently it's not. The tangles are throughout my hair. Mainly around the middle and a bit up I would say. They really are just everywhere. Yesterday I randomly linked a recent hair trim. Which I don't do nearly as often as I should. To around the time the tangles started. Not sure if this has anything to do with it but thought it was worth mentioning just because as far as I can remember they were around the same time. I always thought having a trim would help detangle, which was certainly not the case this time around if they are connected. Aside from the time it takes to brush out my hair and the sheer amount of pain my entire body is in when I'm done, I am worried about the amount of hair I am losing each time I brush and detangle. To the point where the person who braids my hair even said they could tell a noticeable difference in the thickness of my hair and braid. What was the point of spending literally years of time,effort,money and a ton of water just to rip it all out? Some of the tangles end up coming out in little balls when I finally have them out.

Again, my apologies for this being so long. I am BEYOND overwhelmed with this situation. If anyone can suggest ANYTHING, I will surely listen. I know my hair length is rare but I just can't be the only person in the world ever to have this problem. In my online searches I have seen several videos of girls with hair around my length and one or two even longer. Granted there hair doesn't look like mine but the way they glide through their hair just amazes me. I just find it impossible that they can do that. At the same time it gives me a glimmer of hope as to maybe there is something that can be done to save mine. Thank you to everyone who takes the time to read this. I look forward to getting replies! :)
I hear you on the tangles I'm only at 43" and get some pretty serious tangles. I'm thinking of going back to a braid. I'm wanting to go six feet long too or ankle. I'm jealous I do hope you share a pic with us long hair fans. Good luck with the tangles.

[spidermom]

My hair holds onto scents, so there's no way I would ever leave vinegar in my hair. What I did when I stayed at my father's house in Ohio where the water is hard was put 1-2 tablespoons of vinegar into a plastic pitcher, then fill it with warm water. I'd wash and rinse, then drop my hair into the pitcher and let it soak until I got bored with it. Then I'd pour the vinegar solution slowly over my head and massage over my scalp with my fingers to be sure the vinegar was well worked in. Then I'd rinse, condition the length, comb, and rinse again. That gave me good results. Without the vinegar, my hair would look dull and almost ashy from the hard water. Oh, and I used white vinegar, not apple cider vinegar. My hair is so light in color that the ACV would give my hair kind of a reddish tone.

[diddiedaisy]

I keep a measuring jug and my vinegar in the shower. I use 1/2 teaspoon white wine vinegar to 460mls of water. This gives a ph of 4.5 which I find has helped with the tangles I was getting.

I make it up in the shower in a measuring jug when I've done everything else, pour it on and leave it in the hair. It's not a massive amount of vinegar so it doesn't smell. I've previously made the mistake of adding too much vinegar which makes the rinse too acidic and that will harm your hair.

It seems to me that a little goes a long way with vinegar :)

[ko6kin]

ko6kin, Have you seen this: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=120052

I'd start there. There is almost an overwhelming amount of info on these boards. And a lot of what you read may not work on you. I think we all have gone through quite a bit of experimentation, but starting out with a base of knowledge helps in knowing what direction to start in. There is a Coarse Hair thread on that list. Start there. There is also a protein sensitive thread somewhere. Read labels and take note of things that show up on products that do work for you and on products that don't.

Thank you Pili!

[leayellena]

since I discovered keratin conditioners my hair loves me. haha I mean it behaves. I am co-washing mostly from now on. my hair looks perfect from yesterday´s co-wash. although the first co was of course a fail: my hair was flacky and greasy af.

[MidnightMoon]

I'll add myself to the list of folk wanting to see your hair :p

[LadyLongLocks]

My hair is over 7ft and I can relate! I have been through massive tangling periods myself! It seems to come out of nowhere and nothing helps! The more I did the worse it became. It took me over an hour to comb it out at times. I dreaded washing! I simply went back to my most simple hair routine and gradually it has gone back to normal. I still always use a shower water filter, non sulfate shampoo and coney conditioner. I was pre-conditioning before and it seems like my hair was starting to react badly to that. So far my hair is combing out normally the last 5 washings. I hope your hair tangling ends soon.I have not had time to read all of the above advice, but happy you have come to LHC. Another idea would be to go to a George Michael salon and get their deep treatment and advice. Good luck!

[enting]

I put my vinegar rinse in a large empty Dr. Bronner's bottle. I like it because the sides are clear and I can see how much vinegar and water I'm putting in without having to use measuring cups. I probably use something like a quarter or a fifth of the bottle per use, but this way I don't have to mix it up each time (my hair is only somewhere near the 3 feet mark). You could probably use any empty shampoo/conditioner/liquid soap bottle if that makes enough quantity for you.

I think a lot of us use vinegar rinses in the shower because we're already there for various hair-ly things, especially for those that do the rinse before conditioning or like to rinse it out with plain water afterwards. There is absolutely no reason why it would need to be done in the shower if that isn't the easiest way for you. Do feel free to use a bowl or the sink or whatever method works for you!

Add me to the list of those eagerly awaiting news of how it goes with your hair, and possibly pictures :)

ETA: rather that wringing your hair out, I'd suggest gently pressing your hair to remove excess water and vinegar, and then wrapping it up in something like a tee shirt. Gosh, I sound like the instructions for handwashing a woolen garment :laugh:

Looking back I see you also asked for recommendations for how strong to make the rinse. I use a 1:3 dilution (that is, 1/4 of the bottle is vinegar) because that was how I was taught elsewhere, but most people here consider that quite strong - for instance, it's about 25 times as strong as what diddiedaisy wrote that she uses, if my math is correct. I use hard tap water for it, so that may make a difference, too.

I can't tell you what dilution would work for you hair, sadly, but there are several points you could start with:

a) You could choose to start with a weak dilution similar to diddiedaisy's above, and then if you find it isn't enough, you could gradually increase the strength until you find a dilution that works for you. This would avoid possible drying out effects from too strong of a dilution right off the bat.

b) You could choose somewhere in the midrange, let's say somewhere around one tenth vinegar. If it's too strong, you can go less, but if it's not effective enough, at least you started in the middle and have fewer increases to try.

c) Or you could be brave and try a strong dilution, but if it's too drying, you'll need to be prepared for that.

I actually found that my strong dilution made my hair *greasy* for the first month or so of using it, oddly enough. Like so many things, your mileage may vary, but somewhere in the above range of dilutions (or even weaker, if someone else recommends that) is probably safe to try out.

[LadyLongLocks]

I see you mention brushing out tangles. I use wide tooth combs 99% of the time. Have you tried combs? I found that using the tips of the comb helped detangle it easier than the comb digging into the hair. Also a few things that come to mind is to avoid hot water and to use coolest you can stand.I have even combed it in the shower with conditioner( Neutrogena) at times. Use as little shampoo( Organix cherry ginseng diluted with water) as possible and I only wash the scalp and allow the shampoo to run down the hair during the 2nd shampoo only. A SHOWER FILTER is a must! You can try filtered water in a pitcher for your final rinse if you have one. Maybe my hair was reacting to severe stress..it seems to know somehow! I have never been a vinegar user. I also find that when my hair has severe tangles a deep treatment with a heat cap helps. I use Nexxus Humectress deep treatment. It usually improves things for a while.I also comb when hair is very wet and I don't rinse the conditioner longer than 20 seconds which leaves some in the length. Just posting a few ideas that come to mind. Also, a Boar bristle brush on dry hair may smooth down the cuticle between washing. A tiny bit of coconut oil also helps me on the length. If I have the patience I try to comb the hair before washing which helps with the detangling later. I just leave my hair hanging down to wash in the shower and never scrub or ball it up with suds. I use t shirts to wrap up the hair after combing it out to soak up water. If I think of anything else I will post it later. :)

[lapushka]

Oh yes, seconding detangling with the WT comb first, then using a brush. But oh well, detangling is so individual. But I would recommend a WT comb for sure, especially for hair that long.

I have hard water too, have had it for all my life. I never use a vinegar rinse, or a citric acid (lemon) rinse, but I do use a *lot* of product, so a lot of shampoo. And a lot of conditioner (good moisturizing conditioner) as well. But the shampoo amount is key for hard water. On our detergent bottles for the washing machine they also recommend more product for harder water, and it always works out well.

I never have any issues.

[Girlw6ftofHair]

Hi all! Just a bit of an update. I have been keeping up with all coments. Which I very much thank everyone for! Today is hair wash day. I got it done earlier today than usual. I usually take a shower/wash my hair later in the evening. Sometimes it's way after midnight before I take one. Anyways I had the time today and to be honest, I just wanted to get it over with. I've read everyone's comments, at the very least twice if not more. I did a TON of reading on different things in the forums here. Plus I Googled plenty of things, read lots of articles and watched plenty of YouTube videos. Seriously it seems this has become my life. As I stated earlier in the week, I decided to start with an ACV rinse. I went out and bought the Bragg's ACV that from what I have read/seen it seems to be the number one choice. I admit I was kind of surprised that it was a bit pricey. However, I was happy to have found it. That is not the story with something to put the rinse in. I went to 3 different stores and looked in multiple departments. I just could not find anything I thought would work well for me. The few things I did find that might have worked, I felt had too large an opening or were glass. Sometime this week I am going to make a special trip to Wal-Mart in hopes I can find something. Preferably a condiment or hair dye bottle. I ended up using two different bottles I had here at home.

Yesterday I premixed my rinse of ACV and bottled water, that I got especially for this. It seemed silly to use the water out of the tap. Since the hard water build up may end up being what's causing a lot of my problems hair wise. Thus using the rinse among the other benefits it is suppose to have. I took both small bottles I filled with the rinse and a bowl to the shower with me. After the mass amount of info. I have read, I decided to do a rinse before and after. I figured this would be okay to do once since it was my first time ever using ACV. I got in the shower but did not turn the water on. I poured a bit on my scalp and my first reaction was THIS IS COLD! I left the bottles on my table but man did it feel like they came out of the fridge. Definitely not room temp. even though they were. Lol, anyways even though I was trying to be as careful as possible to only get the rinse on my hair and into the bowl, some did drip/spill and not make it into the bowl. Not really sure but I don't think this would be a problem with the condiment/hair dye bottle, due to the smaller openings and long nozzle. I made sure all of my hair was wet with the rinse. Soaking my braid in the bowl and the little bit that was left over I poured back onto my scalp. I then massaged it into my hair. Trying to clean my scalp and hair from any kind of build up there might have been. It was probably on a few minutes before I turned on the water. I washed my scalp and conditioned my braid. I then rinsed everything out of my hair with as cool a water as I could stand. I turned the water off and did another ACV rinse. I DID NOT rinse it out. I squeezed a bit out just so my hair would not be soaking wet once I got out of the shower.

Since my hair is damp and in a braid, I can't really tell if it did anything or not. I've touched the hair on my scalp and I *think* it might feel a bit softer. I'm not %100 sure on that. I won't take my braid out for brushing until sometime tomorrow night . Once the braid is out and my hair is down, I hope to be able to tell if there is any difference. Crossing my fingers for positive results all around! :)

[spidermom]

A plastic pitcher like you would use to make juice or lemonade works great! Easy to hold, easy to pour.

[Ligeia Noire]

Fascinating to read your adventure, I really hope that helps!

[JadedByEntropy]

remember you still have to get the old tangles out, but it shouldn't tangle up as badly this time around :) good luck with the brushing!

[Borgessa]

Good luck, looking forward to hearing how well it worked.. Fingers crossed that's how it goes.

[lapushka]

After the mass amount of info. I have read, I decided to do a rinse before and after. I figured this would be okay to do once since it was my first time ever using ACV. I got in the shower but did not turn the water on. I poured a bit on my scalp and my first reaction was THIS IS COLD! I left the bottles on my table but man did it feel like they came out of the fridge. Definitely not room temp. even though they were. Lol, anyways even though I was trying to be as careful as possible to only get the rinse on my hair and into the bowl, some did drip/spill and not make it into the bowl. Not really sure but I don't think this would be a problem with the condiment/hair dye bottle, due to the smaller openings and long nozzle. I made sure all of my hair was wet with the rinse. Soaking my braid in the bowl and the little bit that was left over I poured back onto my scalp. I then massaged it into my hair. Trying to clean my scalp and hair from any kind of build up there might have been. It was probably on a few minutes before I turned on the water. I washed my scalp and conditioned my braid. I then rinsed everything out of my hair with as cool a water as I could stand. I turned the water off and did another ACV rinse. I DID NOT rinse it out. I squeezed a bit out just so my hair would not be soaking wet once I got out of the shower.

Since my hair is damp and in a braid, I can't really tell if it did anything or not. I've touched the hair on my scalp and I *think* it might feel a bit softer. I'm not %100 sure on that. I won't take my braid out for brushing until sometime tomorrow night . Once the braid is out and my hair is down, I hope to be able to tell if there is any difference. Crossing my fingers for positive results all around! :)

Seriously, I would do an ACV rinse only once. But that's just me. I know you are *eager* for results and things that work, but twice is overkill, IMMHO. :flower: But who knows it might work well for you. YMMV and all that. :shrug:

Hope it turns out OK. :)

[Obsidian]

Really hope this works for you but I feel like you missed a important step of thoroughly washing your hair out of the braid. Vinegar will break up the mineral deposits but you still need to manually wash it away with a good full length wash.

When I use vinegar water to wash with, I just use warm tap water and cheap ACV. No need to use distilled water or the expensive organic vinegar. I save the good ACV for eating. I make up a lot of the rinse, 3 or 4 gallon in a large bucket then use a drink pitcher to pour it over my head. Since I use cheap acv, I don't worry about trying to catch any spills.

[lapushka]

Wait. You said you poured it on your head and it felt cold. Did you use it undiluted? Surely not. It's best to take warm water and dissolve a tiny bit of vinegar in the pitcher or bowl (or other container) of water.

[enting]

Wait. You said you poured it on your head and it felt cold. Did you use it undiluted? Surely not. It's best to take warm water and dissolve a tiny bit of vinegar in the pitcher or bowl (or other container) of water.

She wrote that she premixed the ACV and bottled water. It sounds like it was the bottle of diluted ACV that she left at room temperature and then used on her hair.

[lapushka]

She wrote that she premixed the ACV and bottled water. It sounds like it was the bottle of diluted ACV that she left at room temperature and then used on her hair.

Must have read over that. I don't do well with long paragraphs. :o

[KlutzyChy1]

When I use an ACV rinse, I like to pour it into an empty plastic spray bottle, like one that you would see windex or a cleaning spray in. This makes it easier for me to get it on my scalp and my length. I also like to dilute mine, 3/4 cup of bottled water & 1/4 cup ACV. Good luck! ❤ I hope it all gets sorted out soon for you.

[Girlw6ftofHair]

A plastic pitcher like you would use to make juice or lemonade works great! Easy to hold, easy to pour.

That sounds like a great idea! I will look for one of those when I go to the store. Maybe a smaller version of the regular size is made as I wouldn't really need one as big as the regular one. I'm not sure how much of the rinse I was expecting to use but I don't feel like I really used that much. Even with the bit that did not make it into the bowl.

[Girlw6ftofHair]

Fascinating to read your adventure, I really hope that helps!

Thank you, me too! :)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

remember you still have to get the old tangles out, but it shouldn't tangle up as badly this time around :) good luck with the brushing!

I know...ugh. Just the thought of it makes me cringe. I don't want to brush my hair! :) I'm hoping you are right and this time will be better. Thank you, I'll need it. :)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

Good luck, looking forward to hearing how well it worked.. Fingers crossed that's how it goes.

Thank you! I will post another update once it's brushed out. It might even be tomorrow before I reply. Depends on how long it takes me to brush it out tonight. Me too! :)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

Seriously, I would do an ACV rinse only once. But that's just me. I know you are *eager* for results and things that work, but twice is overkill, IMMHO. :flower: But who knows it might work well for you. YMMV and all that. :shrug:

Hope it turns out OK. :)

I just wanted to be as thorough as possible with it being my first time ever using it. I think from now on I will just use it as my final rinse. Maybe before I condition though. I'm really not sure which way is best. It seems to be most everyone here does it one of those two ways. I'm not sure if there are any benefits to leaving it in my hair as oppose to rinsing it out. I am quite eager for results but at the same time, don't want to do any unnecessarily. Thank you for your thoughts, they're appreciated. Who knows, I figured I had to start somewhere and to just go for it. I do too! :)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

Really hope this works for you but I feel like you missed a important step of thoroughly washing your hair out of the braid. Vinegar will break up the mineral deposits but you still need to manually wash it away with a good full length wash.

When I use vinegar water to wash with, I just use warm tap water and cheap ACV. No need to use distilled water or the expensive organic vinegar. I save the good ACV for eating. I make up a lot of the rinse, 3 or 4 gallon in a large bucket then use a drink pitcher to pour it over my head. Since I use cheap acv, I don't worry about trying to catch any spills.

I soaked my braid and rubbed it thoroughly through all of my hair. I know it probably would have been better to do it with my hair unbraided. Honestly, since I have started washing my hair in the braid, I am afraid to take it down to wash. Mainly because I remember how much hair I loose in the shower when it's down. Also a lot of people have told me to stay away from doing anything to it while it's wet. I realize they meant more like brushing and/or trying to detangle. I always thought hair was easier to untangle when it was wet but I guess I was wrong. Maybe it's easier for hair to tangle when it's wet, even if you do feel like it brushes out easier? Maybe I will work up the courage to do a full length wash a bit down the road.

After all the reading I did, including comments. It seemed like most everyone used raw, unfiltered and unpasteurized. A few posts I read said it was the best and the cheap stuff did not work as well. Now that you have told me this, I have one of those big jugs of ACV that I will try once my current bottle runs out. Which I hope is a good while. I got the bottled water as I read and I think someone here also said it didn't make sense to mix it or rinse your hair with hard water. I thought to myself, well that does make sense. I wanted the rinse to work as well as it could, so I didn't mind the extra step. I would feel better about spills using the cheaper ACV. Thank you for your post, it's appreciated. Good things for me to think about going forward. :)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

She wrote that she premixed the ACV and bottled water. It sounds like it was the bottle of diluted ACV that she left at room temperature and then used on her hair.

Yes, that's correct. :)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

Must have read over that. I don't do well with long paragraphs. :o

My apologies. I don't mean for my posts to be so very long. I just want/like to be as detailed as possible. Which tends to makes everything longer and drawn out. I feel like it could be one very small thing I do or don't do that could make a big difference. That way someone might notice something and make a suggestion, that I had not even thought about. :)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

When I use an ACV rinse, I like to pour it into an empty plastic spray bottle, like one that you would see windex or a cleaning spray in. This makes it easier for me to get it on my scalp and my length. I also like to dilute mine, 3/4 cup of bottled water & 1/4 cup ACV. Good luck! ❤ I hope it all gets sorted out soon for you.

I've thought about using one. It just seems like it would take FOREVER to spray my braid to where it's soaked. Thinking about it, maybe I could get one and just use it on my scalp. Then I would know exactly where it was going. Since it's a small amount that comes out with each spray, it would not spill everywhere. I could then just soak my braid in the bowl to make sure I got it all. Thank you, me too! Also, thanks for your thoughts. I'm going to add a spray bottle to my list along with a small pitcher and try them both. :)

[Corvana]

Have you seen this thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=143925)? It popped up and I thought of you!

[Quixii]

I know a lot of people don't like to/advise that you don't detangle/mess with your hair while its wet, but I think that can be highly dependant on your hair. I think many/most wurly/curly haired people detangled their hair when it's wet and full of conditioner.

Personally, I brush my hair right before and right after my shower, and detangle with my fingers while applying conditioner. So it gets detangled when wet. As long as you're careful, I think it should be fine.


Also, you noted that you're concerned with how much hair comes out in the shower. It definitely often looks very concerning, but remember that: a) your hair is very long, so one stand can look like a lot when it's all balled up, so even only several strands can look concerning, b) if you have your hair up/in a braid for a week before washing, then all the shed hairs that would naturally come out during that time have no choice but to come out all at once when you wash.

[Andthetalltrees]

I know a lot of people don't like to/advise that you don't detangle/mess with your hair while its wet, but I think that can be highly dependant on your hair. I think many/most wurly/curly haired people detangled their hair when it's wet and full of conditioner.

Personally, I brush my hair right before and right after my shower, and detangle with my fingers while applying conditioner. So it gets detangled when wet. As long as you're careful, I think it should be fine.


Also, you noted that you're concerned with how much hair comes out in the shower. It definitely often looks very concerning, but remember that: a) your hair is very long, so one stand can look like a lot when it's all balled up, so even only several strands can look concerning, b) if you have your hair up/in a braid for a week before washing, then all the shed hairs that would naturally come out during that time have no choice but to come out all at once when you wash.

I agree, Even though my hair is barely wavy I've always detangled(Brushed) my hair wet after washing because I have less tangling if I do that. Obviously it's not damaging my hair in the slightest so I don't mess with it.

[enting]

Have you seen this thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=143925)? It popped up and I thought of you!

I also saw this and thought it should be linked here. Well done!

Last night when I was braiding my hair for sleep, the ends were getting very tangly, so I automatically responded with putting moisturizer in the ends to give it slip as I combed the ends out. It then occurred to me that I should post that here. Lately I've been using body moisturizer meant for skin. In the past I've used oil. I do use vinegar in the shower as I am detangling, but once it's dry I sometimes do need to add an additional item for more slip.

In my humble opinion, when dealing with tangles and knots, going overkill on the things to give slip isn't a bad thing. One can always wash an oil or gel out later if it's gross, but in the meantime it prevents damage and snapping from trying to detangle stubborn knots.

When you brave the great brushing, if it's not while wet in the shower you may wish to have something extra on hand to help. Arete's marshmallow solution (the link Corvana posted) sounds amazing especially because it sounds like the slippiness (is that a word?) lasts for a really long time after it dries.

[cathair]

I know a lot of people don't like to/advise that you don't detangle/mess with your hair while its wet, but I think that can be highly dependant on your hair. I think many/most wurly/curly haired people detangled their hair when it's wet and full of conditioner.

Personally, I brush my hair right before and right after my shower, and detangle with my fingers while applying conditioner. So it gets detangled when wet. As long as you're careful, I think it should be fine.


Also, you noted that you're concerned with how much hair comes out in the shower. It definitely often looks very concerning, but remember that: a) your hair is very long, so one stand can look like a lot when it's all balled up, so even only several strands can look concerning, b) if you have your hair up/in a braid for a week before washing, then all the shed hairs that would naturally come out during that time have no choice but to come out all at once when you wash.

I agree too. I get the tangles out with condition in the shower and do nearly all my shedding in the shower. Since it's up all the time, I don't find much hair on the carpet these days. But it always surprised me how much tangled hair isn't even attached to my head when I wash it. It just gets a cursory finger comb the rest of the time when it's dry, it doesn't like being combed dry much at all. Even when I wear it straight.

[Ligeia Noire]

I do comb after wet, the only way for me but I do not comb in the shower anymore, I break too many hairs doing that because the strands get all friendly with each other and not enough slip yet, so I let it all moisturized and then it combs like a charm.

[Borgessa]

Wondering how it went. Was it any better for you? I'm not sure the vinegar would work that well if your hair is still braided whilst washing, it can't get in there well enough to do the job your asking it too... but I hope it was a little easier for ya.. Any updates?

[lapushka]

Also, you noted that you're concerned with how much hair comes out in the shower. It definitely often looks very concerning, but remember that: a) your hair is very long, so one stand can look like a lot when it's all balled up, so even only several strands can look concerning, b) if you have your hair up/in a braid for a week before washing, then all the shed hairs that would naturally come out during that time have no choice but to come out all at once when you wash.

I comb and brush well before a wash (to get weekly sheds out, I wash weekly), then I have a drain catcher thingy (necessary!!!) because a lot of hair "loosens" while washing, especially after conditioner, I find. It gets cleaned out after shampoo, after every conditioner I apply, so water can still keep running through and it doesn't clog up. I keep the hair on the side of the sink. Then when hair gets out of the towel, I detangle one more time, just with a wide tooth comb, just before applying my stylers. I don't comb during the washing process. But for me hair comes out 3 times, before, during and after.

[arc691]

Hi there, I'm really sorry to hear about the trouble you are having with tangles. I can understand your frustration. I have a few things that I do with my own ankle length hair, like only ever using a wide-tooth comb and using tons of conditioner, plus Johnson's No More Tears detangling spray. I just finished making a post on my blog today with my hair care routine and favorite products, maybe something I shared might work for you too. Here is the link to my post if you would like to check it out~ https://691superlonghair.blogspot.com/2017/08/my-updated-hair-care-routine-and.html

Wish you all the best! from Andrea

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Wondering why we haven't heard back from the OP? :hmm:

[Girlw6ftofHair]

Hi all! My apologies for being a few days late to reply about my AVC rinse. I have not really had time to be online and respond since my last responses. I was hoping to be able to update everyone on Wednesday but got a bit busy the last few days. So again my apologies.

As I previously said I did do the ACV rinse twice on Monday. I took my hair down Tuesday to brush out. Just to clarify I do brush but I also do a ton of what I call finger combing. I believe others have called it the same thing. All I can say is I was/am SUPER disappointed. It did not do anything! And I did put some time into it. I didn't just pour it on my hair and move on. The only thing I think it did do was make my hair really poofy from about mid length to the end. I'm not really sure what to do now. I think I might try it again but go about it a different way. My thought is to do my normal wash on Monday. On Tuesday when I take it down, go ahead and brush it out like usual. However before I put it back in the braid, step in the shower with my hair down and do another rinse through all of my hair and scalp. I'm not sure it will do anything but I thought it might make a difference if my hair was down. If that does not work, then I am not sure what to do. :(

[JadedByEntropy]

Don't panic just yet, it might require a few changes before you find what works. If it's poofy it probably worked to strip off deposits weighing it down. It should be less likely to stick together so this can be good news!

I'd still suggest sitting near a good natural light with sharp scissors and picking through the ends for splitends, a S&D seek and destroy mission. I do not mean a haircut or a trim by any means, just pick out the splits to reduce how much they grab eachother. I only s&d the last 12" of my hair, and it stops the Velcro sensation where the splits snag healthy hairs and damage them and tangle together.

[Obsidian]

I wouldn't even bother with vinegar rinses, seriously, go to sally's or ulta and get a chelating shampoo. Lather up, let sit for 10 minutes, lather up again and you are done.

[gossamer]

Hi all! My apologies for being a few days late to reply about my AVC rinse. I have not really had time to be online and respond since my last responses. I was hoping to be able to update everyone on Wednesday but got a bit busy the last few days. So again my apologies.

As I previously said I did do the ACV rinse twice on Monday. I took my hair down Tuesday to brush out. Just to clarify I do brush but I also do a ton of what I call finger combing. I believe others have called it the same thing. All I can say is I was/am SUPER disappointed. It did not do anything! And I did put some time into it. I didn't just pour it on my hair and move on. The only thing I think it did do was make my hair really poofy from about mid length to the end. I'm not really sure what to do now. I think I might try it again but go about it a different way. My thought is to do my normal wash on Monday. On Tuesday when I take it down, go ahead and brush it out like usual. However before I put it back in the braid, step in the shower with my hair down and do another rinse through all of my hair and scalp. I'm not sure it will do anything but I thought it might make a difference if my hair was down. If that does not work, then I am not sure what to do. :(

I'm super happy to see that LadyLongLocks and arc691 have offered their wisdom already because they're total experts in this (whereas I am not, I'm a huge practicer of benign neglect even with my hair beyond floor length), but I want to point out that both of those women have this amazingly naturally straight, smooth hair that I super envy and will never have.

Mine is wavy (although not curly) and this means I simply can't have the smoothness that they both do, and I think the waviness impacts my ability to do styles at my length because of the tangles that like to form like second nature for my hair. What works for their texture might not work for you. What works for my texture might help you, it might not. Experiment slowly.

Two thoughts:

1) Shedding has to happen some time - and when you're trapping sheds in your length by not getting them out when washing (especially if all oiled up with conditioner, this maybe is easier with some slip), then maybe all the unattached hairs are hanging out and making a nuisance of themselves for you.

2) Have you ever clarified the length before? I do this once every few months by diluting Neutrogena anti-residue formula in the bowl I always use to help me with hair washing, swish all my length around in that, and then condition the heck out of it with something like Suave rainforest or ocean breeze (and between clarifying washes, sometimes I'll use coney stuff from Garnier Fructis too. Cones are definitely my friend). In general, not just after clarifying I finger comb conditioner through it in the shower and let that sit for between 3-30 minutes (the latter is a rare thing when I have the time), rinse it out, and then add a small palmful of the Suave back into the last 3 ft or so of my hair as a leave in. This goes up into a towel to dry for 30 minutes or longer (if I get lazy and into reading a book or something while it's all piled on top of my head), after which I braid it damp and leave it like that for the rest of the day/night.

The next day, I finger-comb the braid as I unbraid it, which helps me contain and manage the knots, and then braid it back up again or bun it. I have a very limited range of styles that work for me any more now that I'm beyond floor length, and it seems fewer as time goes on with pulling issues.

Braids into buns are the best for me. I detangle daily between braids to get the pesky sheds out that cause knots.

[JadedByEntropy]

gossamer
woah, hadn't considered the sheds-thats brilliant!

[Borgessa]

Bummer had hoped it works, Gossamers advice is the best bet as her hair is probably more like your own.. :)

[lapushka]

I wouldn't even bother with vinegar rinses, seriously, go to sally's or ulta and get a chelating shampoo. Lather up, let sit for 10 minutes, lather up again and you are done.

I'm with you on that!

[enting]

Don't give up hope! This means you can cross vinegar rinsing in a braid off your list of things you've tried. That's progress!

It can be frustrating to be in that period of trial and error, but I think a lot of us have had to go through it to figure out our various specific hair issues. Vinegar for me only works when it's soaking wet, and only if it's an issue that vinegar can fix. Sometimes I do actually need a trim, or an S&D, or oil, or a deep treatment, or a heavy conditioner. I'm pretty sure we've all got loads of other suggestions for things you can try if it's not a matter of buildup in the end, or if vinegar/chelating/other method of removing buildup isn't sufficient.

[Ligeia Noire]

It takes time but as I told before if you have hard water the acv wont do much you really really really need to chelate, buy a good chelate shampoo and chelate. Did I write chelate enough? :p also silicones, man with hair that length I cant even imagine chelating, clarifying or even just washing without a good amount of silicones after, a good thick conditioner after chelating and you will hopefully see some difference after even the first use. And as Gossamer said washing with your hair braided seems like it is helping the tangles as the shed hairs get trapped in there during the wash, tangle and the products do not really wash right throughout the length. At least that is what happened to me when I tried scalp only wash, after it when I wanted to comb my length was dry the rest was wet, major knots and tangles. Good luck and something will work, it needs try and error and patience.

[Girlw6ftofHair]

Don't panic just yet, it might require a few changes before you find what works. If it's poofy it probably worked to strip off deposits weighing it down. It should be less likely to stick together so this can be good news!

I'd still suggest sitting near a good natural light with sharp scissors and picking through the ends for splitends, a S&D seek and destroy mission. I do not mean a haircut or a trim by any means, just pick out the splits to reduce how much they grab eachother. I only s&d the last 12" of my hair, and it stops the Velcro sensation where the splits snag healthy hairs and damage them and tangle together.

Do you mean a few changes to the rinse or the way I do it or do you mean a few changes in general? Really? So poofy is good news. Okay, well that makes me feel a bit better about it. :)

That is a good idea as I had never thought of them being a contributor but the way you describe it, that makes sense. However, I already do that. Oddly enough I don't really have a problem with split ends. (knock on wood)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

I wouldn't even bother with vinegar rinses, seriously, go to sally's or ulta and get a chelating shampoo. Lather up, let sit for 10 minutes, lather up again and you are done.

Really? Like don't even use it anymore? I think that will be my next step. I have wrote down a few that people here have suggested. So I will try to find one of those. After letting it sit for 10 minutes, do I need to rinse before lathering it again or just add a bit more water so it will lather up good?

[Corvana]

Really? Like don't even use it anymore? I think that will be my next step. I have wrote down a few that people here have suggested. So I will try to find one of those. After letting it sit for 10 minutes, do I need to rinse before lathering it again or just add a bit more water so it will lather up good?

I've never used a chelating shampoo (yet, I'm likely due to need one soon enough), but my general thoughts for the vinegar vs shampoo are: Use the chelating shampoo to get the years of buildup out, then the vinegar rinses after that to keep it from building up again. Or at least from doing so as badly.

[Obsidian]

Use the chelating shampoo to get the years of buildup out, then the vinegar rinses after that to keep it from building up again. Or at least from doing so as badly.

This exactly. Used the shampoo to remove the years of build up then help prevent it with vinegar rinses.

[CindyOfTheOaks]

I would love to see your hair :)

Did I read that you tried the ACV rinse with your hair still in a braid ?
My goodness noooo...when you are trying to clean stuff out of your hair it needs to be loose so you can truly get it all clean :flowers:

[Girlw6ftofHair]

I'm super happy to see that LadyLongLocks and arc691 have offered their wisdom already because they're total experts in this (whereas I am not, I'm a huge practicer of benign neglect even with my hair beyond floor length), but I want to point out that both of those women have this amazingly naturally straight, smooth hair that I super envy and will never have.

Mine is wavy (although not curly) and this means I simply can't have the smoothness that they both do, and I think the waviness impacts my ability to do styles at my length because of the tangles that like to form like second nature for my hair. What works for their texture might not work for you. What works for my texture might help you, it might not. Experiment slowly.

Two thoughts:

1) Shedding has to happen some time - and when you're trapping sheds in your length by not getting them out when washing (especially if all oiled up with conditioner, this maybe is easier with some slip), then maybe all the unattached hairs are hanging out and making a nuisance of themselves for you.

2) Have you ever clarified the length before? I do this once every few months by diluting Neutrogena anti-residue formula in the bowl I always use to help me with hair washing, swish all my length around in that, and then condition the heck out of it with something like Suave rainforest or ocean breeze (and between clarifying washes, sometimes I'll use coney stuff from Garnier Fructis too. Cones are definitely my friend). In general, not just after clarifying I finger comb conditioner through it in the shower and let that sit for between 3-30 minutes (the latter is a rare thing when I have the time), rinse it out, and then add a small palmful of the Suave back into the last 3 ft or so of my hair as a leave in. This goes up into a towel to dry for 30 minutes or longer (if I get lazy and into reading a book or something while it's all piled on top of my head), after which I braid it damp and leave it like that for the rest of the day/night.

The next day, I finger-comb the braid as I unbraid it, which helps me contain and manage the knots, and then braid it back up again or bun it. I have a very limited range of styles that work for me any more now that I'm beyond floor length, and it seems fewer as time goes on with pulling issues.

Braids into buns are the best for me. I detangle daily between braids to get the pesky sheds out that cause knots.

I am totally with you on that! It amazes me how the few pictures I have seen and the people I have spoke with here, that have hair around the same length as mine, is ALWAYS super straight. Before my friend suggested this site, he sent me a link to one of your Youtube videos. Which was four parts, so I watched all four parts. Even watchings those, the entire time I was thinking, her hair is so much straighter than mine. From what I gather, the more wavy to curly your hair is, the harder it is to deal with. Which is kind of obvious I guess. So it makes total sense that the few people you do see with long hair, have it completely straight. So far mine is the waviest I have seen at floor length. The only curly parts of my hair is the newer hair coming in where your hair stops above the neck. All of that hair is completely natural curl ringlets. It looks like I have curled them, that's how perfect they are. Which is weird as I don't do anything to that hair. It's just hair that is not long enough to catch in my braid.

I hadn't really thought about mine not being able to be as smooth as someone with straight hair. I'm holding out hope on the subject though. I have not tried any other hair styles other than a braid. A few people here have suggested a few. Which I want to try and learn to do them. I think a few of them are buns and for whatever reason, I just don't get how to do any kind of bun. I also wondered if trying any of the hair styles would be difficult for me due to my waves and tangles. I kind of just assumed yes on that one. I'm glad you say even you have problems with that as I can now at least know to expect it other than just assuming I will. If that makes any sense. I like how you say your tangles form as a second nature. That is a PERFECT description for my hair. It has been since I was a kid. Though from what I saw in your videos, your hair didn't seem to tangle all that much. Which I was totally amazed at! I just went back to well her hair is straighter than mine and that must be how she is doing that. I'm trying to go as slowly with everything as I can. Mainly just to not be overwhelmed. Also to know what works as opposed to trying several things at once and wondering which one worked or was it all of them.

Are you saying the shed hair in my braid are causing problems when I go to take down my hair and brush out? Honestly, I'm not really sure. If I have, it has been a long while. I think I started using the Suave clarifying on all of my hair but then before I really knew any of the things I do now (way before joining here), I just thought maybe I didn't need it on the length. I guess I thought mostly because it was clarifying that it would be best for my scalp to clean all the sebum and such. So I always used other shampoos on my length. Mostly ones that said for dry or damaged hair. Thinking my hair was dry and my length is old, so I'm sure there was/is damage. Looking back I'm kind of proud of myself for figuring that bit out on my own. Since joining here or maybe slightly before, I stopped washing my length all together. It has come up online and here quite a bit to not do that. So I stopped doing it.

I had never used a bowl in the shower before. It's not something I ever thought about. After watching your videos, I thought, well that's a good idea. I did end up buying one just like yours to dip my length in for the AVC rinse. Does putting your hair in the bowl while it's down and not in a braid, not make your hair a mass tangle? I mean, obviously it doesn't since you still do it but I just don't understand how that does not happen.

I have never left conditioner on my hair that long. Just because then I would take an even longer shower. I have thought about putting some on my hair a bit before I even get in the shower. I think someone might have even mentioned doing that here but can't quite recall. I'm not sure it would do anything but I figure trying it out can't hurt. I don't guess it would do anything bad to my hair being on that long? You mentioned putting shower, rinse out conditioner back on your hair but not rinsing it out. I also saw you do that in a video. Is that okay to do? I didn't know you could use in shower, rinse out conditioner as a leave in. If I could do that, that would definitely save me on buy products and one less bottle sitting around. Which right now I have a TON of! Before I saw your first video, I don't think I had ever even thought about washing/conditioning my hair and then putting it back up in a braid without detangling. The very thought of that scares me to death! I just don't think I would have good results on that one.

I also do take my braid out the next day finger combing and brushing as I go. Brushing mostly more near the top to get my hair a bit more in order to be able to get all of my fingers through. I did not always comb/brush it as I go. I feel this one step has made a HUGE difference in tangles. It's funny how something so simple can make such a big difference. I think it has/does anyways but really it could be anything. I watched you do your bun and even though I was watching the whole time, I was still thinking, how the hell did she just do that? I'm sure you have done it a million times, so it's takes no thought to do it, it just kind of happens.

I want to learn the braids into buns but again that just looks so difficult. I admit I do not take my braid down everyday as I think I might loose my mind if I had to brush my hair everyday.

Thank you so much for all the information, it's super appreciated! :) After my friend spoke of you, watching your videos and then people here mentioning you, I was kind of like O, look it's her! When I say your post here, lol. I'm glad you posted to me as I wanted to get in contact with you anyways. My friend had said you are very helpful on the subject and that I should contact you directly. However, I can not do that from here since I am a new member. I also have no idea how or if you even can contact someone through Youtube. I have like a bizillion questions for you and would love to simply pick your brain on the matter. Again, thanks for all the tips/info. :)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

gossamer
woah, hadn't considered the sheds-thats brilliant!

Agreed! me either. :)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

Bummer had hoped it works, Gossamers advice is the best bet as her hair is probably more like your own.. :)

Me too! :( I'm going to try the ACV again though. I mean, I put all the effort into all of it and bought all the stuff. Seems like a waste if I just throw it all aside. Plus I still have a bit of the mix left over from Monday. I agree, maybe I can try doing a few things more the way she does it.

[meteor]

My goodness noooo...when you are trying to clean stuff out of your hair it needs to be loose so you can truly get it all clean :flowers:

I agree. Personally, I sometimes do braided washes, as well, and while there is a big upside of time saving and reducing bigger tangles, the downside is that I can't get all my hair cleaned as easily (especially tiny lint pieces, which can cause tiny but stubborn tangling) and I can't get all build-up as easily off - so I have to switch between braided washes and loose ones and can't do too many braided washes in a row or I'll get more tangling down the road.

As for chelating question, I'd simply chelate with a proper chelating shampoo (lathering at least twice, letting it sit for a few minutes before rinsing), detangling all hair very thoroughly right before the wash, conditioning very heavily after and simply not manipulating or flipping hair while washing, all in exactly the same downward motion - both hand motions and water flow, to avoid additional tangling.

[Girlw6ftofHair]

I'm with you on that!

I am going to try it again, just as I still have some left over. However, I am going to go ahead and buy a chelating shampoo too. :)

[JadedByEntropy]

Do you mean a few changes to the rinse or the way I do it or do you mean a few changes in general? Really? So poofy is good news. Okay, well that makes me feel a bit better about it. :)

That is a good idea as I had never thought of them being a contributor but the way you describe it, that makes sense. However, I already do that. Oddly enough I don't really have a problem with split ends. (knock on wood)

I meant changes in general. One more thing checked off the list as (i believe) a success! With those deposits gone, your hair may respond better to your conditioner or oils. :) something will work for you.

Almond oil was nice oily-oil for my dry hair, and very strong. Teatree oil is my go-to even though it is drying.
If you're going to get into oils, I suggest getting something pre-mixed with many kinds of oils in the ingredients to see if any of the ingredients works, then narrow down which one it was. A lot of people love coconut, but i don't. You'll have to explore some threads to find out what each one does for people.

Splits are the primary reason i get tangles outside of my kinky texture. That's impressive that you don't suffer from them at your length! You take great care of your hair!

[Girlw6ftofHair]

Don't give up hope! This means you can cross vinegar rinsing in a braid off your list of things you've tried. That's progress!

It can be frustrating to be in that period of trial and error, but I think a lot of us have had to go through it to figure out our various specific hair issues. Vinegar for me only works when it's soaking wet, and only if it's an issue that vinegar can fix. Sometimes I do actually need a trim, or an S&D, or oil, or a deep treatment, or a heavy conditioner. I'm pretty sure we've all got loads of other suggestions for things you can try if it's not a matter of buildup in the end, or if vinegar/chelating/other method of removing buildup isn't sufficient.

Thank you for your encouragement. That's true, that's a good way to look at it. :)

Yes it can! I look forward to seeing what all other suggestions everyone has, if the chelating shampoo does not work. I have not got it yet and probably won't get it before my next wash. Hopefully I can get out to get it in time for the wash after that. I so hope it works! :)

[Quixii]

Oh gosh, you don't do any leave in conditioner/deep treatments? Yes, I would definitely recommend doing that. You can leave any conditioner in as long as you want. Putting some into your dry hair before you take a shower is totally fine. Not rinsing out conditioner after your shower, or reapplying your regular conditioner after your final rinse, is also totally fine. I use a conditioner labelled as a "deep treatment masque" as my leave in conditioner - it means it's a bit heavier than most things labelled as leave-in, but I think that works better for my purposes.

[cathair]

Thank you for your encouragement. That's true, that's a good way to look at it. :)

Yes it can! I look forward to seeing what all other suggestions everyone has, if the chelating shampoo does not work. I have not got it yet and probably won't get it before my next wash. Hopefully I can get out to get it in time for the wash after that. I so hope it works! :)

If you struggle to find shampoo that's specifically for chelating, swimmer's shampoo does the same job. My hair felt so wonderful the first time tried chelating. Smooth and big. I hope yours does too. Good luck :)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

It takes time but as I told before if you have hard water the acv wont do much you really really really need to chelate, buy a good chelate shampoo and chelate. Did I write chelate enough? :p also silicones, man with hair that length I cant even imagine chelating, clarifying or even just washing without a good amount of silicones after, a good thick conditioner after chelating and you will hopefully see some difference after even the first use. And as Gossamer said washing with your hair braided seems like it is helping the tangles as the shed hairs get trapped in there during the wash, tangle and the products do not really wash right throughout the length. At least that is what happened to me when I tried scalp only wash, after it when I wanted to comb my length was dry the rest was wet, major knots and tangles. Good luck and something will work, it needs try and error and patience.

Honestly, I have read so many comments since I posted I don't %100 remember you saying that, my apologies. Haha, yes I get the chelating idea. :) That will be what I try next. I spent way over an hour in Wal-Mart Friday night, looking for stuff. I had made a list of everything everyone here has suggested. It was quite a long list. I seriously found ONE thing on the list, which I did buy. Even though before going to the store I looked them up on WM.com and the majority of them said in stock. I was beyond mad! Paul Mitchell 3 has come up here a few times, so I think I will just order that one off of WM.com. Along with one or two other things suggested, if I can afford them. That seems to be a cheap as place as any I'm finding.

After all I have heard about silicones, I am kind of afraid to use them. Even though I don't know of a silicone product. I'm also confused on the subject. Some people have said it's bad and others have said it's good. So I'm just not sure. You said you couldn't imagine doing any of that without a silicone product. I guess I'm just used to it. I now have three thick conditioners to pick from. So I'm good on that subject. High hopes on seeing a difference after using a chelating shampoo with a thick conditioner. I totally agree with you on that.(and Gossamer) I think washing in the braid and not trying to detangle while wet has really been a BIG help. I try and rub my conditioner and the things I put on it after I get out of the shower, into my braid as well as I can. So it gets to as much hair as possible and not just what's visible. Thanks and I hope so! I'm all for trial, just kind of frustrated on the error. I'm trying to have as much patience as possible! :)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

I've never used a chelating shampoo (yet, I'm likely due to need one soon enough), but my general thoughts for the vinegar vs shampoo are: Use the chelating shampoo to get the years of buildup out, then the vinegar rinses after that to keep it from building up again. Or at least from doing so as badly.

That makes total sense. I had thought of that AFTER I did my first AVC rinse. Better late than never I guess, haha. I think I will start doing exactly that. Or that is the idea but that might change as I go. :)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

This exactly. Used the shampoo to remove the years of build up then help prevent it with vinegar rinses.

Will do. :)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

I would love to see your hair :)

Did I read that you tried the ACV rinse with your hair still in a braid ?
My goodness noooo...when you are trying to clean stuff out of your hair it needs to be loose so you can truly get it all clean :flowers:

If I can ever get my hair looking half way nice and have the energy after I brush it out, I'm going to try and get one for everyone here to see. Others have said they would like to see it as well. I hope they don't think I have ignored them. I've just not been able to do it yet. It's definitely on my hair to do list. :)

Yes, that's correct. Yes, others have told me that as well. I didn't really think about that the first time around. After I use a chelating shampoo and do another ACV rinse, I will do it that way. :)

[Sarahlabyrinth]

If I can ever get my hair looking half way nice and have the energy after I brush it out, I'm going to try and get one for everyone here to see. Others have said they would like to see it as well. I hope they don't think I have ignored them. I've just not been able to do it yet. It's definitely on my hair to do list. :)

Yes, that's correct. Yes, others have told me that as well. I didn't really think about that the first time around. After I use a chelating shampoo and do another ACV rinse, I will do it that way. :)

I'm sure you will share a photo with us when you get the chance :) But the important thing here is to get your hair, and you, happy again :)

[stachelbeere]

Not sure if my comment will help but I'm definitely seconding the 'don't bother with acv rinses' idea. I moved from a soft water area to a hard water area in 2015 and experienced the worst knots and tangles, dry hair ever, it was impossible to detangle! I was used to acv rinses at home but where I live now, they do nothing (btw I prefer citric acid to acv hands down). After multiple desperate posts here on lhc about my problem (and signing up to the swimming pool) I finally bought a chelating shampoo with the right ingredients and my hair is back to normal. It's a bit dry now because I have to shampoo the chlorine out every time I go swimming but it's a huge improvement. I wish you good luck!!

[Ligeia Noire]

Dear, silicones are not the devil. I know some people hate them but as long as you use a sulphate shampoo once in a while to no let them build up you are fine. They really really help giving your hair manageability in order to be combed and handled. You are doing great. One thing at a time, easy to be overwhelmed with tips and tricks when you don't know what is wrong and what will work. I bet the Paul Mitchell chelating shampoo and then a Good conditioning will help a lot. Of course everything needs patience and more than one try to see progress.

[MusicalSpoons]

If I can ever get my hair looking half way nice and have the energy after I brush it out, I'm going to try and get one for everyone here to see. Others have said they would like to see it as well. I hope they don't think I have ignored them. I've just not been able to do it yet. It's definitely on my hair to do list. :)

Yes, that's correct. Yes, others have told me that as well. I didn't really think about that the first time around. After I use a chelating shampoo and do another ACV rinse, I will do it that way. :)

I think it means you have to do the chelation with your hair loose too, as the tangles are in your length which is braided - otherwise the mineral buildup will maybe be dislodged but not actually cleaned out. I can only imagine washing it loose sounds really scary for you, but it probably is the only way to ever tackle the problem successfully :flowers:

[Arctic]

You can still keep your hair sectioned, if if it's not braided for your washing. Just work on one sectio at a time.

[meteor]

After all I have heard about silicones, I am kind of afraid to use them. Even though I don't know of a silicone product. I'm also confused on the subject. Some people have said it's bad and others have said it's good. So I'm just not sure. You said you couldn't imagine doing any of that without a silicone product. I guess I'm just used to it. I now have three thick conditioners to pick from. So I'm good on that subject. High hopes on seeing a difference after using a chelating shampoo with a thick conditioner. I totally agree with you on that.(and Gossamer) I think washing in the braid and not trying to detangle while wet has really been a BIG help. I try and rub my conditioner and the things I put on it after I get out of the shower, into my braid as well as I can. So it gets to as much hair as possible and not just what's visible. Thanks and I hope so! I'm all for trial, just kind of frustrated on the error. I'm trying to have as much patience as possible! :)

I have never seen research that could point to silicones being unsafe. :flower: Sure, not all silicones are the same, and not everybody likes the sleek or weighed down feeling they can give or the need to wash off some old build-up from time to time, but they are safe. At least, safe enough that they have been used as a standard base in silicone sheeting and in silicone (dimethicone) gels on burn patients for ages now (products: http://www.siliconeforscars.com/list-of-silicone-scar-products-sheets-and-gels/ and studies:
- Chan KY, Lau CL, Adeeb SM, et al. A randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind, pro-spective clinical trial of silicone gel in prevention of hypertrophic scar development in median sternotomy wound. Plast Reconstr Surg 2005;116:1013–1020.
- Ahn, ST, Monafo WW, Mustoe TA. Topical silicone gel for the prevention and treatment of hypertrophic scar. Arch Surg 1991;126: 499-504.
- Kuhn MA, Moffit MR, Smith PD, et al. Silicone sheeting decreases fibroblast activity and downregulates TGFbeta2 in hypertrophic scar model. Int J Surg Invest2: 467, 2001.
- Mustoe TA. Evolution of silicone therapy and mechanism of action in scar management. Aesth Plast Surg 2008;32:82–92.)

Silicones can be really excellent for slip, so that should help your detangling efforts. And a heavy conditioner with silicones is like going to be particularly useful after any stripping chelating and/or clarifying sessions to give hair that much-needed slip. :)

And yes, many of us have been recommending trying not to brush while wet. ;) It may be a bit scary at first - feeling like knots can "lock in" as they dry, but in reality many of us have hair that sticks together when it's wet and as it dries many of the wet sticky areas resolve themselves and are easier to detangle. It's something worth experimenting with, at least if the hair is straight or wavy. (Obviously, after the hair is thoroughly detangled pre-wash.)

[vega]

Some pics would be nice.... So we can see exactly what we are dealing with ...so we can see your hair texture wet and dry.

[lapushka]

Dear silicones are not the devil. I know some people hate them but as long as you use a sulphate shampoo once in a while to no let them build up you are fine. They really really help giving your hair manageability in order to be combed and handled. You are doing great. One thing at a time, easy to be overwhelmed with tips and tricks when you don't know what is wrong and what will work. I bet the Paul Mitchell chelating shampoo and then a Good conditioning will help a lot. Of course everything needs patience and more than one try to see progress.

I second that. With a good moisturizing conditioner for dry damaged hair, I usually mean + silicones (although Shea Moisture do good ones without them); they have their purpose, especially on long tangly hair. I know I need them, have done so since I got beyond BSL!

[Ablubox]

I'm a newbie myself, so I can't really offer any help, but I wanna say: welcome, you've come to the right place for advice, it's gonna be a breeze don't worry :)

[enting]

You can still keep your hair sectioned, if if it's not braided for your washing. Just work on one sectio at a time.

Quality post! Seconded!

[CindyOfTheOaks]

You can still keep your hair sectioned, if if it's not braided for your washing. Just work on one sectio at a time.


Quality post! Seconded!



Yes,to get your hair thoroughly clean and have a chance at a fresh start it's going to have to be loose to let everything really flow out of it.
You really can't do that in a braid, gunk is going to stay in there.

[SparrowWings]

:scissors: I try and rub my conditioner and the things I put on it after I get out of the shower, into my braid as well as I can. :scissors:
I can't help but wonder if this braid-rubbing is actually contributing to the problem, rather than helping, as well. At least in my hair, no matter how perfectly detangled it was when I put it in a braid, if I rub that braid it turns into a mess of super-snaggy small tangles almost instantly. All the surface hair just gets wound around itself, even across the three braid sections, and it's only marginally better to deal with than if I had left it down completely. But if you follow what all the others have been saying and do the washing and product-adding with your hair loose, and then braid it after, this potential problem spot becomes a non-issue! :)

[Girlw6ftofHair]

Hi all! I don't want any of you to think I disappeared or that I am not serious about getting my hair in check. Since I am not able to respond to posts right away. I am not always able to get online every day and sometimes can go days without getting on at all. I just want to state that as I'm sure some of you wonder why it takes me so long to respond to posts. With that being said, I know what page and person I stopped at with my last bit of responses. So as soon as I can I will respond to the person I stopped at and respond to as many of the new posts as I can. Thank you all for your on going support and patience with me. :)

A small hair update that I thought was worth noting. I'm trying to make a point to list everything I have tried. Last Friday I was able to find ONE product on my list. I found and bought the Aussie 3 Minute Miracle. Which several members here suggested I try. I don't believe I have ever used anything from that line. I hope I bought the right one as there were several kinds that were very similar. Anyways, I did use it Monday. I brushed out my hair on Tuesday as usual and there was no difference. Except, like with the ACV rince, it was SUPER poufy. I thought it got poufy with the AVC and this was WAY more so. To the point I had trouble even brushing it. I was/am not a fan of that result at all. I did as with the ACV rinse use the new conditioner with my braid in. Which I will do the same again tomorrow as I want to keep using it. My hopes are next Monday, to wash my hair with a chelating shampoo with it out of the braid. Then to condition with the new conditioner obviously also out of the braid. Seriously praying for results after that part is done.

As far as the chelating shampoo goes, I am having the hardest time finding one. I just could not find any of the ones suggested to me at Wal-mart. The Paul Mitchell 3 is the one I think that has been suggested to me the most. I did find a good size bottle on Wal-mart.com for $16. Plus a smaller bottle for $10 but it worked out that the bigger bottle is a better deal. Is that a good price for it? I know there were a few others but can't recall them at the moment. Which brings me to my next point. I have been writing down everything everyone here has suggested. I had my list in my pocket the other day when I got caught in a rain storm. So now half of my list is one giant ink smudge. I'm going to list below what I can still read. If anyone can add any to it that would be great. Also, I know a lot of people have suggested a swimmer's shampoo for cheating as it's suppose to do the same thing. If this is true what is a good one? Preferably one I can find at Wal-mart or maybe Sally's.

This is the bit of my list I can still read. I am of course not going to buy everything at once. Just wanting to keep them wrote down, so I can buy them as I go, if other things don't work.

Aussie Moist 3 Minute Miracle Balm. The one I bought says conditioner. Are they the same or did I buy the wrong thing?
Loreal Total Repair 5 Damage Erasing. Not sure if this is a shampoo, conditioner or ???
L'oreal Everpure Smooth Deep Control Masque
Paul Mitchell Clarifying 3 shampoo
Paul Mitchell Original Detangle Conditioner
Shea Moisture Detangler. Which one???
Shea Moisture Raw Shea Butter Deep Treatment Masque
Neutrogena Triple Moisture Mask
Schwarzkopf Citre Shine Miracle Highly Laminating Anti-Frizz Serum
Joico K-PAK. This one is totally smudged out. I believe it was a chelating shampoo but not sure of the exact name and there are a ton of results online for just the first bit.

[Wildcat Diva]

On joico K PAC the clarifying shampoo is also chelating. I researched that carefully to make sure. I buy it on Amazon.

[Aredhel]

On joico K PAC the clarifying shampoo is also chelating. I researched that carefully to make sure. I buy it on Amazon.

That's my chelating shampoo too! I was thrown off guard when they changed it from "chelating" to "clarifying", but yup it is definitely the same one. :)

Girlw6ftofHair, here be a link! http://www.joico.com/products/k-pak-clarifying-shampoo-2/

[littlestarface]

That's my chelating shampoo too! I was thrown off guard when they changed it from "chelating" to "clarifying", but yup it is definitely the same one. :)

Girlw6ftofHair, here be a link! http://www.joico.com/products/k-pak-clarifying-shampoo-2/

Mine too!

123456

[Sarahlabyrinth]

That's my chelating shampoo too! I was thrown off guard when they changed it from "chelating" to "clarifying", but yup it is definitely the same one. :)

Girlw6ftofHair, here be a link! http://www.joico.com/products/k-pak-clarifying-shampoo-2/

I use this one too! :D

[Ligeia Noire]

So I guess you got good feedback on that chelating combo, everyone here used it :p
I would go with that one. I bought mine online too, it's something a bit hard to find in stores. Also, I don't think any conditioner will work before you get your hair rid of the hard water minerals' build up.

[stachelbeere]

I just finished a bottle of the Paul Mitchell Clarifying Shampoo, it works really well, I researched it well and it has the chemical compounds that are needed to chelate (and wash chlorine out as well)

[LadyLongLocks]

I use Herbal Essence shampoo with sodium laurel sulfate to CLARIFY.10 years ago it was what I used twice a week. Now I use non sulfate regularly. (organix) I used the Neutrogena clarifying once and it was really awful. I have gone back to basics and quit pre conditioning for a while. It has helped with the tangling issue. I also find when my hair tangles, its a sign to change the shower water filter.
I never thought of washing hair in a braid. I hardly ever braid my hair anymore but I want to try it sometime!

[LadyLongLocks]

Here is the clarifying shampoo (https://madoralonghair.com/product/blue-shampoo) by George Michael.This is what they used prior to doing the deep treatment in the salon. The hair was squeaky clean, as they called it and all residue removed. I only used it that one time.

[harpgal]

I think I can help you. First of all, hard water will cause a lifting of the hair cuticle, along with shampoos with any sulfate in them. I have lived in very hard water places and struggled with this very thing. Please consider using a shampoo without the sulfate and one that has a lot of "slip". For example, I use Giovanni Smooth as Silk shampoo and conditioner. Also, I use Desert Essence shampoo and conditioner (the one with Coconut Oil). Before washing your hair, take it out of the braid and make sure it is combed out as smoothly as you can get it.

Fill a large plastic bowl with distilled water, at least 3-4 cups. Just place that outside the shower on the floor. Normally, I only shampoo my scalp and rinse holding my hair to one side, but I think you will have to smooth the shampoo down the entire length. After rinsing, load with lots of conditioner, wrap around your head and let that soak in while you wash the rest of you. Rinse carefully but not more than about 20 seconds. You want some of that conditioner to stay in your hair. Lastly, reach for that bowl of distilled water and place your entire length in it. After a good soak, pour the rest over your head.

Do not scrub your hair with a towel when you get out of the shower. Simply wrap the towel around the length to get as much moisture out as you can. Now, the important part. While your hair is still damp, carefully pull the "ropes" apart, moving your hands down the length as you gently pull. This will take a while but while your hair is damp, there is some degree of elasticity. Do not comb until you have most of those ropes separated and then start combing from the bottom, up. Don't ever brush damp hair. Wait until it is dry and after it is fully combed out....and this is very important...never, never, never whip either a comb or brush quickly off the ends.

Whew! I hope this gives you something to work with. I have very, very fine hair and have learned all of this the hard way.:) Please feel free to PM me if you have any questions. BTW, LadyLongLocks really knows a lot more than I do about all of this so as sure would ask her any questions, also.

ETA...Upon thinking more on this, I want to mention that it is the lifting (or even damage to) those stacking scales that make up the cuticle that can cause tangles. Generally, hair will get very "grab-y", thus creating tangles. One of the goals is to try to get the cuticle to lay down smoothly. A litmus strip test of the PH of your water will tell a lot. Water with a more acid PH will generally seem softer. Anything that is more alkaline will seem harder.

Also, if you are experiencing tangles in the same area more often than not, it could be from rubbing or placing a barrett in the same place, day after day. It could even be caused by twisting or bending your braid the same way every day.

I think with a little experimentation, you should come up with some positive results.

[Ligeia Noire]

Very curious to know if you had any luck girlwith6fthair?