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LinzDigital
August 10th, 2017, 05:19 AM
Sorry if this was posted before! I found a thread that kind of talked about this but not quite this concern.

So I am currently using a sulfate free shampoo that has an amodimethicone like silicone in it, and a conditioner that has that and actual amodimethicone in it- they also both have quats and polyquats if that matters.

I do like silicones but I try to go easy on them since it can weigh my hair down.

Anyway, lately, since its gotten longer, its gotten drier and I was thinking about starting to use maybe an oil treatment once a week. But it occurred to me, would it even matter? Can oil help moisturize hair if its coated in silicones in your rinse out? So if I did an oil treatment the benefit would really only be to my scalp?

Then next, I was thinking about oil based leave-ins (I just discovered Haus of Gloi and they have nagchampa scented hair oil!!). Would oil as a leave in serum even do anything to condition after using a silicone containing conditioner? Or would it just act like a silicone and sit on my hair- and thus silicone being a better more effective route as a serum leave in because oil seems to attract more dirt?

Honestly, up until now I don't even really deep condition, just wash, condition, detangler, a heavier leave in, serum, go. So, I have no idea! :) But I know I probably need to start giving it a bit more care now its gotten longer and I want it to keep going.

LadyCelestina
August 10th, 2017, 05:37 AM
I think the oils that can penetrate hair (coconut etc.) can also penetrate hair that has silicones on it, but I don't have anything to back it up. It was talked about once somewhere on the boards.

Other oils just sit on your hair, so they are better used post wash, but given that unlike silicones, they are composed of fatty acids, you might get benefits that are different from the benefits of just silicones.

Personal experience,the combination of pre-wash oiling with coconut oil and silicone conditioners used as rinse-out gave me buildup.

lapushka
August 10th, 2017, 06:19 AM
I double condition, with silicones, and I use an oil rinse (rinse-out oil, see signature) in between or right at the front of conditioning, baby oil at that, just 10 drops. And it works wonderfully. I recommend you reading through that thread. :thumbsup:

spidermom
August 10th, 2017, 08:15 AM
Yes, both can benefit. Cones don't create an impenetrable barrier on your hair.

Not so much anymore since my hair is relatively short, but I used to do a coconut oil soak the night before I washed my hair when I remembered, and it made a big difference for me compared to the times I forgot to do the oil. I'd use a coney serum (CHI silk infusion) after washing to make it easier to comb my hair.

Cherriezzzzz
August 10th, 2017, 09:02 AM
I had this happen to me, suddenly my ends were getting dry... I ended up removing all silicone products and oiling. Now I use a poo bar for shampoo, acv for conditioner, and (for frizz a hair balm with coconut oil, beeswax, jojoba and primrose oil.) Only a very teeny amount or it'll be oily! My hair is moisturizing root to tip with new silky feeling hair!

Corvana
August 10th, 2017, 02:54 PM
Interestingly I haven't noticed it not helping... I wash weekly, and sometimes stretch a bit more or less depending, but usually Sunday is my wash day. I WCC, and then while my hair is still damp put maybe 4 drops (although I think they're half drops, technically) of oil in my hair on the ends. And then if I feel like I need it, or I just really want to, I'll toss on a few more drops later in the week. I always start with less than I think I'll need, because I can always add more. That way I'm less likely to add too much!

Although, I'm thinking of trying the ROO thing this coming Sunday... I'm moving Saturday, and that might be a nice little treat to try out!

animetor7
August 10th, 2017, 03:30 PM
Yes, both can benefit. Cones don't create an impenetrable barrier on your hair.
snip


This. Especially given that you're using a dimethicone which if I remember correctly are water soluble, oils that normally penetrate and therefore help condition the hair should have no trouble with getting through that layer of cones assuming that any still remains due to the products being rinse out anyway. It might not work for you to use oils, but I say go ahead and try it and don't worry too much about the fact that your shampoo and conditioner have water soluble cones in them. Good luck!!

lapushka
August 10th, 2017, 03:50 PM
Interestingly I haven't noticed it not helping... I wash weekly, and sometimes stretch a bit more or less depending, but usually Sunday is my wash day. I WCC, and then while my hair is still damp put maybe 4 drops (although I think they're half drops, technically) of oil in my hair on the ends. And then if I feel like I need it, or I just really want to, I'll toss on a few more drops later in the week. I always start with less than I think I'll need, because I can always add more. That way I'm less likely to add too much!

Although, I'm thinking of trying the ROO thing this coming Sunday... I'm moving Saturday, and that might be a nice little treat to try out!

Corvana, with the ROO thing, use less than you think you need (like 5 drops), and start slow, on the very ends and lengths only - this way you can largely try it out without weighing down the hair from the get-go. I use ROO on the last 3/4 inches of my hair (I'm TBL, but when I was hip too). It is a great way to get moisture in your hair (in the very oldest bits of it). I use baby oil, but you can use any oil you like!

I normally used it before my 2 conditioners.

This last week I tried it out between my 2 conditioners, and I think I happen to like that more, as the week goes on. I thought, at first, that there was barely or no difference, but my hair is more moisturized even than before, so I like it this way better.

Dark40
August 10th, 2017, 05:55 PM
Oils applied to silicones has helped me out a lot. It really helps to keep my hair moisturized, and to keep my ends from drying out. I only use silicone conditioners once or twice a week so that I don't have any build up.

lunasea
August 10th, 2017, 07:21 PM
Thanks for asking this, I've often wondered about it myself. I've found that cones don't seem to do much to dry my virgin hair but, after a few days, my bleached/damaged ends seem to get uppity. I've been applying a drop or two of oil when this happened but wasn't sure it was doing any good. I am hugely addicted to BPTP hair glosses- not for the 'cones, but for the smell. They do seem to make everything super shiny right after I put them on- even though I tend to concentrate mainly on the ends with just a touch on the rest of the canopy. Anything that makes my hair smell like incense is just irresistible to me. The whole thing is out of control. I have close to 30 different scents- mostly samples though. One of these days I should put my rejects up on the board.

Zesty
August 11th, 2017, 05:20 PM
I don't know a ton about the science of it, but will echo that 'cones don't form an impenetrable barrier. I use natural oils over silicone conditioners after a wash and it makes a difference in my hair. But for some reason, despite being straight and not very coarse or thick, my hair loves layered products and rarely gets buildup. I can pre-poo, then WCC without shampooing my length, then LOC, and it doesn't weigh my hair down noticeably.

Dark40
August 11th, 2017, 05:40 PM
Zesty, when I apply cones or silicones to my hair it is really a penetrating barrier. To me, it really improves my hair shaft! Leaving it looking shiny and healthy. Because, my hair is thick.

Jo Ann
August 11th, 2017, 07:32 PM
My hair LOVES cones and I WCC and use coconut oil on my hair (ears down) while it's wet and use an argan serum at least every other day when it's dry. I get my argan serum from Wal-mart, in the hair vitamin section: https://www.walmart.com/search/?cat_id=976760_1005863_1001554&facet=price%3A0+-+%2410&query=argan+serum#searchProductResult

LinzDigital
August 12th, 2017, 03:18 AM
Sorry I disappeared!

Thank you all for the replies! I figured it was impenetrable, but I wondered still if it would allow oils to pass, or if it would be like... I don't know, nail polish? Where it can be dry but if you put on another coat it will re-liquefy it and mingle. But yes, thank you! That helps a lot.

LadyCelestina and SpiderMom- I think I have to concur on that with he build up part. I, for the first time since I grew all my damage out tried coconut oil as a pre wash from the ears down the night after I posted this. I didn't soak it, I just got it stringy, left it for 20 minutes then did the rest of my routine as normal to see what would happen. I have to say, I am not convinced :) It feels buildup-y. Like, I washed it and its fluffy and like dry/heavy feeling. A but crunchy maybe. I have to say I don't like it. I ended up washing my hair again for another day in a row because it felt kind of gross all day. And it still feels a bit crunch. I guess I'll have to use a bit of clarifying next time. Darn. I wonder what I did wrong. I did try a tiny bit or Boabab oil as it dried this time though. It made it soft but the hair separates and seems a bit stringy. I wonder if there's maybe another oil I can try the same thing with?

Lapushka- I read through that post. Interesting indeed, I'm curious, when you use that along with WCC what's your goals if you have them? Do you pick a 'treatment' kind of conditioner (like protein, or moisture or some such) and the ROO and a detangler specific conditioner? So maybe it might go wash>treat>seal>soften/detangle? Just curious.... I know my hair needs a bit of protein, it seems to really like it if I get it to where is lower on the list. But I would imagine I'm not getting the full benefits if I don't use it right after washing. Then- I got a new conditioner thats suppose to have a lipid that helps relax curl. I have to say it works! (I have the curliest frizz and wavy to straight hair. Frizz stuff doesn't work because water movement isn't the problem, the hairs are little cork screws). But I would think I would diminish the effect if I didn't use things in the right order. But the the MO, does that effectively seal and lubericate?

Corvana, I think this is the method I like best, working it in as something I leave in my hair... so far.

Animetor7- I thought dimethicone wasn't water soluble, and that was why curlies hate it? I know amodimethicone is suppose to be a modified silicone that isn't water soluble but is modified to stick to damaged areas but not build up on itself. So a lot of curlies hate it because you can't CO it out, but I think the idea is brilliant if you're trying to protect long hair. I actually go looking for it in stuff.

Lunasea, yes, Ive found I kind of need cones. I have tried multiple times over the last 4 years to stop using them, but I have such weird hair, I think it helps even everything out. Like I have a bunch of hair that grows in bumpy. You'd think it was damage but there's just no way it could be at this point, its even up near my scalp and I don't heat, style, dye, chlorine nothin- I mean I cant account for our hard water but I think if it was hard enough to damage it near the scalp I'd have grown flippers or a tail by now. So silicones seems to smooth out the hair shaft and make it stop getting so catchy. But I keep hearing how I need to incorporate oils to keep it in good shape but I'm just not sure how too do that if I love silicones so much! Haha! OH, and thank you for the note about the hair glosses! I looked them up, oh my gosh! ME TOO, I would love something scented like that! Thank you for mentioning it, I think I need some!

Zesty, I kind of am like that too with some stuff. (Well, barring my coconut oil experiment). The directions are like "a few light sprays" or "a couple drops" and I feel like I can just dump it on my head and it just disappears sometimes. The only main issue is if the ingredient attracts dirt. I do get build up though, I didn't think I did, but then I used It's a 10 for 2 months.. boy it was bad.

Jo Ann, when you do the WCC, how do you choose conditioners and order of things? Is it also kind of like the working conditioner goes first and the detangling one next? When do you apply the coconut oil?

Jo Ann
August 12th, 2017, 03:28 PM
Jo Ann, when you do the WCC, how do you choose conditioners and order of things? Is it also kind of like the working conditioner goes first and the detangling one next? When do you apply the coconut oil?
Generally, I use a shampoo and it's companion conditioner, followed by Herbal Essences Hello Hydration conditioner. I'll also mix up my shampoos and conditioners, but I always finish with Hello Hydration--thanks to Lapushka's recommendation, it's become my Holy Grail conditioner. My hair just seems more moisturized with Hello Hydration at the end, compared to just using a shampoo and conditioner alone.

After I *gasp!* towel dry my hair, I'll use a light application coconut oil on it. I don't like the feel of coconut oil on my hair when it's dry (it's too heavy), so I'll use the argan serum I linked to in my last response.

As always, YMMV... :)

lapushka
August 12th, 2017, 03:52 PM
Lapushka- I read through that post. Interesting indeed, I'm curious, when you use that along with WCC what's your goals if you have them? Do you pick a 'treatment' kind of conditioner (like protein, or moisture or some such) and the ROO and a detangler specific conditioner? So maybe it might go wash>treat>seal>soften/detangle? Just curious.... I know my hair needs a bit of protein, it seems to really like it if I get it to where is lower on the list. But I would imagine I'm not getting the full benefits if I don't use it right after washing. Then- I got a new conditioner thats suppose to have a lipid that helps relax curl. I have to say it works! (I have the curliest frizz and wavy to straight hair. Frizz stuff doesn't work because water movement isn't the problem, the hairs are little cork screws). But I would think I would diminish the effect if I didn't use things in the right order. But the the MO, does that effectively seal and lubericate?

No I just pick any conditioner I want to use up as my first conditioner, and a good detangling one as my second one (preferably the HE Hello Hydration, but the Aldi one is a good silicone-free replacement). I just wash > condition > detangle/condition and sometimes put an oil rinse in the middle.

Protein followed by moisture is a well-known routine though!
I'm glad it works for you!

I feel the MO/baby oil lubricates to the point where the tangles just *melt away*. I never have tangles at the last 3/4 inches of my hair when I oil rinse - I should really do it more often!!! I don't use it to "seal" anything. My LOC/LCO method (styling) does that job for me.