Newbie needing lots of advice with regimen and scalp issues

[florafox]

I hope this is ok. I apologize in advance for the long post.
BACKGROUND INFORMATION: I have searched as much as I could but I'm at a loss of where to start again. I have been natural for 3 years now and I have had many setbacks. I have to keep starting my regimen over (highlight damage, heat damage, butchered hair cuts, the whole nine). Well now I've just come back from sitting frustrated in my bathroom. Since December I've had sores on my scalp and dandruff (malassezia) . I was using the Renpure cherry blossom shampoo and conditioner at the time, before that I used OGX coconut faithfully for years. I found I was allergic to coconut oil summer of last year (it burns and leave rashes). When I went back to sulfates (Garnier Whole Blends Olive) most of the sores went away. I just started using the Nizoral shampoo and its awfully drying. I wash my hair twice a week. I have 3c/4a hair which I prefer straightened. I believe my hair is low porosity and it is fine but very dense. Lately my hair texture in the back where one of the persistent sores is has broken off so much and the texture is wirey and breaks easily. I went to two different dermatologists and they pretty much dismissed me and said I just have eczema on my scalp and to use my steroid cream. They pretty much eluded that my issues are due to my texture. I have eczema on my body not my scalp. My hair is shoulder length I just trimmed it from nearly armpit length to hide the gap in the back of my head =(
QUESTIONS/ADVICE NEEDED:
I don't know how to style my curly hair so I usually just straighten it some way (blow-dry on low, air dry then flat iron). Due to my scalp issues I'm don't think the no poo or curly method is a good idea. I have the ABBA gentle shampoo and conditioner coming in the mail soon. I brought curlformers but I have no idea what products to use. I just ordered a round boar bristle brush by Umberto and Fekkai glossing cream to try to do blowouts that don't require the flat iron. Are boar bristles bad for straightening curls? I also have stainless steel alligator sectioning clips by "hair ware" are these ok? I have gotten rid of most of my hair pins and use satin scrunchies. I usually wrap my hair at night in a satin scarf but I wonder if the knot where I tie it causes damage. I am also unsure of if I need protein since I straighten my hair. I was told by the pharmacist I have to toss my existing combs and brushes as I have a fungal acne (malassezia again) case around my hair and jawline.

I'm at my wits ends end. I am DESPERATE , money is no object as of now. Please tell me anything you may see that I'm doing wrong, any advice is welcomed. Thank you so much.

[Nymphe]

First of all, have you had blood work done, especially for allergies? Since you have a coconut allergy, you need to keep any conditioner off your scalp. Have you tried any oils or gels? Any other product lines for natural hair?

Second, I think you need to leave the heat alone until you know exactly what your hair does and does not like. Or, give yourself a break and get braids, with or without extensions.

Third, I think you need to see a trichologist. You will have to search online for one in your area.

You can alternate between silk or satin pillowcases, bonnets and scarves to keep any of them from rubbing on one area nightly. Also, soaking hair tools in alcohol or peroxide and washing them often can help.

[Ophidian]

I see that you have two primary issues you want to address, but it seems like your scalp issues are currently severe enough to warrant extra attention. If you have the resources to visit a specialist or two that seems like a good plan.

I do have a question: You said that your scalp issues began last December, when you were using the Renpure cherry blossom shampoo, and that before then you had used OGX coconut for years. Did you have the burning and rashes the whole time with that product? I wasn't 100% clear if you had been having scalp problems for some time as a result of the coconut allergy which worsened when you switched to the Renpure, or if this is something that came out of nowhere. It does seem like you have already begun to identify some things that help (sulfates) and some things that you react to (coconut), so having this information is a good start.

I am so sorry you are having these problems, and I am sure you will get a lot of support and good advice here.

[florafox]

Thanks for you Reply Nymphe. Yes I have have extensive testing last year for allergies. Coconut didn't come up in bloodworm, prick or patch tests which is odd. They told me to patch test everything as a sensitivity isn't the same as an allergy. Last year my body attacked itself and I was covered in rashes head to toe. I left my previous place of work as I found I am extremely allergic to roaches *cringe* but we had a stock room full of them since I left it has gotten better. I have dabbled in a few lines for natural hair but SO many have coconut oil =/ . I have straightened my hair for years , I just have an issue with finding a product that keeps frizz/puffiness down. I want to completely avoid braids or artificial hair. I like my hair =). I will search for silk . I just sanitized everything in my bathroom so hopefully this helps =)


First of all, have you had blood work done, especially for allergies? Since you have a coconut allergy, you need to keep any conditioner off your scalp. Have you tried any oils or gels? Any other product lines for natural hair?

Second, I think you need to leave the heat alone until you know exactly what your hair does and does not like. Or, give yourself a break and get braids, with or without extensions.

Third, I think you need to see a trichologist. You will have to search online for one in your area.

You can alternate between silk or satin pillowcases, bonnets and scarves to keep any of them from rubbing on one area nightly. Also, soaking hair tools in alcohol or peroxide and washing them often can help.

[florafox]

The summer of last year before I stopped using several products with coconut my body was freaking out. I left my place of work where I had horrible allergies to roaches (in August) but I still had rashes on my body and hands. I did a patch test on different parts of my body with organic coconut oil and they burned. After that I got rid of all products with coconut oil (In January). I didn't burn when using OGX. When I used the Renpure (in december) my hair got sores and flakes. I am not sure if it was because the cleansing was too gentle or something else. I have been trying different shampoos and haven't found one I loved. The garnier is pretty good! I tried the free and clear shampoo and my hair felt stripped. Neutrogena T-sal didn't make my hair feel clean. I have had my mom and boyfriend look at my scalp and they say the areas that itch are hot pink and damp(I'm sorry its gross) they aren't open sores. There are about 4 spots on my head about 1/4 inch in diameter. Its not ringworm. What came up on my allergy tests were benzophenone, cobalt, potassium dichromate, nickel, roaches (prick test), Dust mite (mild reaction prick test) and Hickory pollen (prick test). When I went to the dermatologist he mentioned cerave but that also gave me issues on my body (caprylic triglyceride is all I could think of)..Its very frustrating and confusing. All my life I've been sensitive.

I see that you have two primary issues you want to address, but it seems like your scalp issues are currently severe enough to warrant extra attention. If you have the resources to visit a specialist or two that seems like a good plan.

I do have a question: You said that your scalp issues began last December, when you were using the Renpure cherry blossom shampoo, and that before then you had used OGX coconut for years. Did you have the burning and rashes the whole time with that product? I wasn't 100% clear if you had been having scalp problems for some time as a result of the coconut allergy which worsened when you switched to the Renpure, or if this is something that came out of nowhere. It does seem like you have already begun to identify some things that help (sulfates) and some things that you react to (coconut), so having this information is a good start.

I am so sorry you are having these problems, and I am sure you will get a lot of support and good advice here.

[florafox]

I should say I found I was allergic to coconut oil January of this year. IF anyone thinks I'm overthinking it and should try OGX again or stick with sulfates let me know. I know OGX uses "Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate, Cocamidopropyl Hydroxysultaine, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, PPG-2 Hydroxyethyl Coco/Isostearamide" and Garnier uses "Sodium Laureth Sulfate and coco-betaine". Despite being curly my scalp makes enough oil that I must wash every 3 days. I read a forum where some ladies said that sulfates keep their scalp issues at bay. I have 3c/4a hair which I prefer straightened so I use silicones. My hair seems damage free aside from the back of my head around one of the sores. I think air drying exacerbates the sores. I have a hood dryer and a handheld dryer that gets my hair dry quickly on warm/high speed (warm doesn't hurt my hand at all). Thank again everyone

[Nymphe]

Thanks for you Reply Nymphe. Yes I have have extensive testing last year for allergies. Coconut didn't come up in bloodworm, prick or patch tests which is odd. They told me to patch test everything as a sensitivity isn't the same as an allergy. Last year my body attacked itself and I was covered in rashes head to toe. I left my previous place of work as I found I am extremely allergic to roaches *cringe* but we had a stock room full of them since I left it has gotten better. I have dabbled in a few lines for natural hair but SO many have coconut oil =/ . I have straightened my hair for years , I just have an issue with finding a product that keeps frizz/puffiness down. I want to completely avoid braids or artificial hair. I like my hair =). I will search for silk . I just sanitized everything in my bathroom so hopefully this helps =)

I gave up on nearly all products due to a coconut allergy (including conditioners), so I know how that goes. There are some that do not have coconut oil; I had them bookmarked, but lost it when my desktop crashed. There are a few I know from memory:

Obia Naturals Curl Enhancing Custard
Any curl activator
Uncle Funky's Daughter has a few
Aunt Jackie's has a few
Pantene has a new line for naturals
My Honey Child has at least one or two

There are sellers on Etsy who has some great products as well, such as Annabelle's Perfect Blends and NaturelleGrow. Check out Target, Sally's and Walmart for more natural hair products; yes, boring label-reading. :)

[Ophidian]

I should say I found I was allergic to coconut oil January of this year. IF anyone thinks I'm overthinking it and should try OGX again or stick with sulfates let me know. I know OGX uses "Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate, Cocamidopropyl Hydroxysultaine, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, PPG-2 Hydroxyethyl Coco/Isostearamide" and Garnier uses "Sodium Laureth Sulfate and coco-betaine". Despite being curly my scalp makes enough oil that I must wash every 3 days. I read a forum where some ladies said that sulfates keep their scalp issues at bay. I have 3c/4a hair which I prefer straightened so I use silicones. My hair seems damage free aside from the back of my head around one of the sores. I think air drying exacerbates the sores. I have a hood dryer and a handheld dryer that gets my hair dry quickly on warm/high speed (warm doesn't hurt my hand at all). Thank again everyone

Well, I think some (over)thinking can be necessary if you have a really perplexing issue and may need to think outside the box to figure out what's going on. But in my experience, sometimes this can backfire if what you are already doing is more or less working. Based on what you have said, it does make sense to me to go back to what you last did that worked for your scalp (which is sounds like was sulfate shampoos). Scalp issues and solutions vary widely but there are many people here who have scalp issues such as SD and say that sulfate shampoos are all that keeps it under control. I don't think this is necessarily the end all be all for all scalp issues for every person, but if sulfates or other relatively strong cleansers like the olefin sulfonate in OGX have worked for you in the past and you can trace this issue to when you stopped using them, it sounds like you may want to consider going back to what you know works and then make adjustments from there as needed. I'm looking for the renpure cherry blossom ingredients list because I'm curious how that compares but can't seem to find it.

If you want to try a pretty cleansing shampoo that is coconut-free, contains the same detergent as your OGX, doesn't have any butters or other heavy moisturizing ingredients, and also contains tea tree (which is often good for scalp issues if you don't have a sensitivity to it), I might suggest looking into Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle if you have one in your area or can get it online.

[florafox]

I have to read labels . I'm a bio major so I enjoy it, thank you soo much! I saw Mielle Organics has good reviews too.
I gave up on nearly all products due to a coconut allergy (including conditioners), so I know how that goes. There are some that do not have coconut oil; I had them bookmarked, but lost it when my desktop crashed. There are a few I know from memory:

Obia Naturals Curl Enhancing Custard
Any curl activator
Uncle Funky's Daughter has a few
Aunt Jackie's has a few
Pantene has a new line for naturals
My Honey Child has at least one or two

There are sellers on Etsy who has some great products as well, such as Annabelle's Perfect Blends and NaturelleGrow. Check out Target, Sally's and Walmart for more natural hair products; yes, boring label-reading. :)

[florafox]

OH my goodness , it wasn't cherry blossom, it was called Spring Water hahah. I'm sorry about that , my mistake. I think you are right. *takes deep breath*. Maybe if I'm worried about dryness I can coat the length with olive oil or conditioner before shampooing. I will use up the Nizoral just to be sure. It has helped the acne on my face quite a bit. I think I spread the fungi from my hair to my face when touching it or brushing my hairline..
Well, I think some (over)thinking can be necessary if you have a really perplexing issue and may need to think outside the box to figure out what's going on. But in my experience, sometimes this can backfire if what you are already doing is more or less working. Based on what you have said, it does make sense to me to go back to what you last did that worked for your scalp (which is sounds like was sulfate shampoos). Scalp issues and solutions vary widely but there are many people here who have scalp issues such as SD and say that sulfate shampoos are all that keeps it under control. I don't think this is necessarily the end all be all for all scalp issues for every person, but if sulfates or other relatively strong cleansers like the olefin sulfonate in OGX have worked for you in the past and you can trace this issue to when you stopped using them, it sounds like you may want to consider going back to what you know works and then make adjustments from there as needed. I'm looking for the renpure cherry blossom ingredients list because I'm curious how that compares but can't seem to find it.

If you want to try a pretty cleansing shampoo that is coconut-free, contains the same detergent as your OGX, doesn't have any butters or other heavy moisturizing ingredients, and also contains tea tree (which is often good for scalp issues if you don't have a sensitivity to it), I might suggest looking into Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle if you have one in your area or can get it online.

[akurah]

So I'm posting from my phone so this is going to be brief, but potentially useful if you're not already aware. Sulfates are derived from coconut oil and this may be the source of your woes.

You almost certainly need to discontinue sulfate use. It's probably aggravating your scalp problems.

[lapushka]

I would suggest you go to a doctor, preferably a dermatologist. It probably is SD, aka seborrheic dermatitis (redness, itchiness, scales/flakes, even wounds/sores if you neglect it long enough).

Scalp health is key for hair health. You need to figure this out first!

To combat the dryness of the Nizoral (you *need* the 2%), I condition twice after shampooing (remember only shampoo the scalp, and let the suds travel down). Leave it on for 5 to 10 min. (extreme cases).

You can do the curly girl method just fine. I do so, and I need medicated shampoo once in a while (when my SD flares up). It is pretty much under control because I use strong sulfate shampoos (that is KEY for SD) on my scalp to keep it squeaky clean. I don't use oil or conditioner on my scalp (because that WILL flare up your SD).

You can do the LOC/LCO method for styling perfectly, just don't let the products reach your scalp!

There's a whole SD thread on the site, let me link it for you:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=54045

[lapushka]

So I'm posting from my phone so this is going to be brief, but potentially useful if you're not already aware. Sulfates are derived from coconut oil and this may be the source of your woes.

You almost certainly need to discontinue sulfate use. It's probably aggravating your scalp problems.

I'm sorry but that is not the case for SD. SD is a thing on its own and sulfates are a Godsend for a lot of people. Some can go sulfate-free, but those are far and few inbetween.

[janeytilllie]

I'm so sorry to hear about your hair and scalp issues I know how much it sucks :grouphug:

First things first is to focus on the scalp. Once you find a good routine for your scalp, then stick to it.
You definitely need to see a professional, even get a second opinions.

For years I was told I had eczema, they were wrong. Finally told by a dermatologist it was psoriasis.

It is hard to suggest things because your scalp may hate what I personally use.

Definitely patch test first with everything.

I'm a medicated sulfate shampoo user and I use cones. I use to be sulfate free it really flared my scalp.

However all scalps react differently.

I recommend lapushka's threads in her signature. Really helped with my hair. Especially the LOC/LCO method to combat dryness. I also use a homemade oil. I don't like coconut oil either.

[akurah]

I'm sorry but that is not the case for SD. SD is a thing on its own and sulfates are a Godsend for a lot of people. Some can go sulfate-free, but those are far and few inbetween.

OP said they were allergic to coconut oil. If that statement is true, my statement stands.

Eta: obviously, if SD is in play, OP needs to go to the doctor and probably an allergist if not already done the allergist. If OP is allergic to coconut oil, needs to know sulfates are basically made of this stuff. If the allergic reaction is as severe as originally described, they can be the culprit and all else could be red herrings. Or it's also possible that the SD is causing those sores and they're not allergic. Hence why I added allergist. Both are also possible, which will complicate matters.

[lapushka]

OP said they were allergic to coconut oil. If that statement is true, my statement stands.

Well, I think that really is for a doctor to figure out, for the most part, hence the advice to go see a doctor, preferably dermatologist. :)

[akurah]

Well, I think that really is for a doctor to figure out, for the most part, hence the advice to go see a doctor, preferably dermatologist. :)

I didn't realize you were active, or I wouldn't have edited my post, but I did say a bit more on the matter.

[lapushka]

I didn't realize you were active, or I wouldn't have edited my post, but I did say a bit more on the matter.

Got it. ;) :) :thumbsup:

[Ophidian]

OH my goodness , it wasn't cherry blossom, it was called Spring Water hahah. I'm sorry about that , my mistake. I think you are right. *takes deep breath*. Maybe if I'm worried about dryness I can coat the length with olive oil or conditioner before shampooing. I will use up the Nizoral just to be sure. It has helped the acne on my face quite a bit. I think I spread the fungi from my hair to my face when touching it or brushing my hairline..

I looked at the ingredients list and unless it has been reformulated since then, the Renpure Spring Water has several mild detergents including cocomydopropyl betaine, sodium lauroyl sarconsinate, and decyl glucoside, all of which are coconut-derived (if not always, at least in this case according to the label). I'm no expert, just an avid label-reader ;). So if coconut sensitivity/allergy is a thing for you, it really is everywhere and could be part of the problem. I guess what complicates that for me though is that you seem to have done well with the OGX, which definitely contains coconut (though OGX has a few different coconut shampoos apparently so I'm not sure if my info on the detergent was accurate).

Anyway, I hope you are able to go to a doctor or two and get a better idea of what is going on with your poor scalp. That is priority, and when you have a handle on that, there is a lot of great info here about various styling methods for hair that needs extra moisture.

[florafox]

Thank you all for the advice I think you ALL are right in different ways =) Its so nice to have different opinions. Does anyone think my styling options are ok? The blowdrying on warm with a round brush, steel alligator sectioning clips? I think air drying irritates the sores. I was told to toss my brushes and combs. I just brought a good "naturally smooth" brush from walmart. I am looking at Kent combs online. I think cones and sulfates are fine for my hair. I don't think cowashing (due to the fatty acids) would work but I will try different sulfates (like the ABBA or Mielle Organics shampoos) to see how my scalp feels. The Nizoral has helped SO much already. Where I used it on my face the acne has reduced so much, its only been 2 days! I find coconut oil itself is irritating but now when I think about it , it may be feeding the natural yeast on my skin. With eczema I know our barrier defense is weaker. I think other coconut derivates are ok as long as they aren't Lauric acid, caprylic triglyceride , or the oil itself.. (I did a lot of reading last night haha). I think experimentation is required. OPHIDIAN:Ah we have the label reading in common =). Maybe it wasn't cleaning enough or those derivatives feed whats on my scalp.
LAPUSHKA: ah , thank you so much. I will try to get an appointment soon. The garnier whole blends olive helped a lot. I agree with you completely I think squeaky clean is the way for my scalp. I think I will just apply an oil or light conditioner to the length before shampooing my scalp. AKURA:thank you, I understand the derivatives, if you mean CG method as in cowashing, I'm just wary of it "feeding" whats on my scalp. I think the lack of cleaning agents caused whats on my scalp to proliferate and cause sores (probably from me scratching). JANEYTILLLIE: thanks for the hug. Its very frustrating. I find a lot of doctors are very "short" with me and when its not acne or something they can throw retinol on they don't give advice. I went to the dermatologist in January and he didn't really look he just looked at my legs and said its probably the same =( Im sure if I called he'd refill any prescription and even just write one for the Nizoral. I agree with the cones, medicated shampoo, patch testing, and sulfates lol.

[Tosca]

http://www.dermnetnz.org/topics/seborrhoeic-dermatitis/ this is a good overview of SD. If you want to explore, the whole website is considered very reputable.

You may also want to look up the CWC and WCC methods of washing (condition, wash, condition, and wash, condition, condition)

[florafox]

I just wanted to post an update. The prescription strength nizoral caused a lot of irritation. My hairline, neck, back , arms (any where the suds touched) now has eczema due to the ingredients in the nizoral. I have a prescription cream I am using and the rashes are receding. I stopped using the Nizoral prescription and went back to a sulfate shampoo which helped on its own. I also made the mistake of trying an "up & up" brand feminine wash with caprylic triglyceride and where I used the wash I got eczema and tiny bubble like lesions. So I know the coconut was to blame. The Nizoral prescription also dried my hair out horribly and I trimmed my hair back to shoulder length (even after deep conditioning each time. its ok, lesson learned) . I have decided to go curly so the round brush, the abba products, and the fekkai gloss will not be used. I ALSO (whew) realized that my breakage in the back of my head was from constant ponytails! I am oiling my length with argan oil and my hair likes it! My boyfriend noted that I was drinking kefir (dairy) and eating turkey meat (nitrates) which is bad for eczema. He suggested I stop for a few days and take my fish/evening primrose oil pills. That seemed to have helped a lot!! My malasezzia on my face is also gone from avoiding products with Polysorbate 20 (a coconut oil derivative).

Before the pink prescription nizoral the sores/bumps on my scalp did not flake and could be described as pimples. The blue over the counter nizoral worked fine and didn't irritate me as much . I shaved a small portion of my nape where a persistent sore was and I see its eczema just like on my body. I have been sensitive all my life so this doesn't surprise me. I am going to use the Whole Blends Olive shampoo and kinky curly products as I saw no coconut. I will section my hair and sit under the hooded dryer (on warm) so that my scalp can dry properly. I feel better thats to all of your help and insight! :cheer:

[Hairkay]

Hi Florafox,

it's good that you know what you're dealing with now. I also have eczema with extremely sensitive skin. I can't even use soaps, shampoos and commercial conditioners. I' worked out what is good for my hair.

[Nymphe]

Thanks for the update. I am glad you are seeing improvement. Your boyfriend may be onto something. Have you looked into an elimination or restrictive diet? This way you can really pinpoint what is causing your flareups.

[lapushka]

The Nizoral prescription also dried my hair out horribly and I trimmed my hair back to shoulder length (even after deep conditioning each time. its ok, lesson learned) . I have decided to go curly so the round brush, the abba products, and the fekkai gloss will not be used. I ALSO (whew) realized that my breakage in the back of my head was from constant ponytails! I am oiling my length with argan oil and my hair likes it! My boyfriend noted that I was drinking kefir (dairy) and eating turkey meat (nitrates) which is bad for eczema. He suggested I stop for a few days and take my fish/evening primrose oil pills. That seemed to have helped a lot!! My malasezzia on my face is also gone from avoiding products with Polysorbate 20 (a coconut oil derivative).

Before the pink prescription nizoral the sores/bumps on my scalp did not flake and could be described as pimples. The blue over the counter nizoral worked fine and didn't irritate me as much . I shaved a small portion of my nape where a persistent sore was and I see its eczema just like on my body. I have been sensitive all my life so this doesn't surprise me. I am going to use the Whole Blends Olive shampoo and kinky curly products as I saw no coconut. I will section my hair and sit under the hooded dryer (on warm) so that my scalp can dry properly. I feel better thats to all of your help and insight! :cheer:

I'm so sorry the Nizoral had such an adverse effect on you. Goes to show we're all different... and that you can't really take advice from someone on the internet without seeing a doctor.

I hope you feel better soon. Eczema is terrible!

Is it maybe an idea to start a thread to search for products without coconut in them?