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Prism
May 22nd, 2017, 12:53 PM
I have a puzzling problem. After shampooing and conditioning in the evening, my newly washed hair feels soft and healthy. However, the next morning it feels dry and brittle.

I need to wash my hair daily due to a very oily scalp that sometimes still gets cystic acne. If I don't wash daily, my hair near my scalp is very oily and forms clumps. I have bangs, and the bangs also form oily clumps.

In the shower I focus on washing my scalp, letting the suds run through the ends when I rinse. Since deciding to grow my hair long, I've ceased blowdrying and curling everything but my bangs. I've also switched my shampoo and conditioner from just using whatever was in the shower to the regimen below:

Shampoo:
Pantene Expert Intense Colorcare OR
Shea Moisture Moisture Retention Shampoo

Condition with:
Pantene Expert Intense Colorcare OR
Shea Moisture Restorative Conditioner

Deep Condition and Clarification:
About every two weeks I deep condition with coconut oil and a heat cap. I follow this with a clarifying shampoo by Pantene and then conditioner.

Do you have any idea why my hair would be so soft the evening after washing and feel so brittle the next morning? I'm going to put some oil on the ends today, but I'd really like to know what the issue is. One thought is that maybe it still has some moisture in it at night and it just feels like it's totally dried, whereas the next morning when it's truly dry I'm getting a more accurate "feel." Any ideas? (thank you!)

lapushka
May 22nd, 2017, 01:17 PM
What else do you put in your hair? Do you use a leave-in / serum in it? If not, I'd try it. If you do, try and leave it out.

Arctic
May 22nd, 2017, 01:25 PM
Random questions....

How do you wear your hair during the night?

What kind of bed linens you use? (Some people swear silk helps their hair, and for example cotton dries their hair out.)

Is the air very dry where you live? (maybe a bedroom humidifier would work?)

Is your hair porous?

And it might or might not help to know more about your products (ingredients), if there isn't any other obvious reason your products might have something to do with it.

Do you mist your hair with anything in the morning? Might help with remoisturizing.

Prism
May 22nd, 2017, 01:33 PM
What else do you put in your hair? Do you use a leave-in / serum in it? If not, I'd try it. If you do, try and leave it out.

Oops, I should have included that. I didn't use it last night, so that's why I forgot it.

Giovanni Avocado and Olive Oil Ultra-Moist Leave-In Conditioning and Styling Elixir

I didn't use it last night, so why is my hair is feeling like straw?

I have also tried to use a Shea Moisture leave-in, but it felt too heavy for my hair.

Prism
May 22nd, 2017, 01:39 PM
Random questions....

How do you wear your hair during the night?

What kind of bed linens you use? (Some people swear silk helps their hair, and for example cotton dries their hair out.)

Is the air very dry where you live? (maybe a bedroom humidifier would work?)

Is your hair porous?

And it might or might not help to know more about your products (ingredients), if there isn't any other obvious reason your products might have something to do with it.

Do you mist your hair with anything in the morning? Might help with remoisturizing.

I sleep on a charmeuse silk pillowcase with my hair spread above the pillow. The air is extremely dry here (in a reclaimed desert part of California). The water is very hard with no water softener.

I haven't tried misting my hair with anything in the morning. Great idea, thank you! What would you recommend I use?

How do I know whether my hair is porous?

Anje
May 22nd, 2017, 01:41 PM
Do you notice it more with one set of products or another? Specifically, I'm wondering if the Pantene does it more than the Shea Moisture.

I noticed that with my own hair, I found the ends getting dry maybe 2 days after using silicone products, particularly things with dimethicone, cyclomethicone, and/or cyclopentasiloxane. (I don't seem to have the same issue with bisaminopropyl dimethicone or amodimethicone.) The hair would feel wonderful and silky at first, then start to feel dry, and that cycle repeated every wash. For me, some of those silicones just don't work well. Obviously, your mileage may vary -- some hair loves silicones, but mine doesn't.

Arctic
May 22nd, 2017, 01:52 PM
The pillowcase is then not the problem. Have you tried bunning at night?

There is a HUGE thread here at LHC, called something like "what's in your mister bottle" at the reciped sub-forum. You will find many ideas there. I personally used to love aloe vera juice, one that was meant for drinking. It made my hair amazing! You might want to avoid very humectant rich products and mister recipes, since your climate is so dry - they can sort of rob the moisture inside your hairs in dry climate (but YMMV).

Porosity is a bit tricky as there isn't a reliable test we can do ourselves. It's best to read how different porosities behave, I think, and compare to your hair. In general more porous hair loses moisture more quickly and thus become dry faster. On the other hand very non-porous hair never even absorbs moisture very well and it might be dry but almost impossible to remoisturize.

Your water can also be a problem, in case your hair doesn't like hard water (I've read many people don't have problems with it) and in case you don't have an effective chalating routine. Hard water can make hair feel dry, brittle, rough and less shiny.

Prism
May 22nd, 2017, 02:19 PM
Do you notice it more with one set of products or another? Specifically, I'm wondering if the Pantene does it more than the Shea Moisture.

I noticed that with my own hair, I found the ends getting dry maybe 2 days after using silicone products, particularly things with dimethicone, cyclomethicone, and/or cyclopentasiloxane. (I don't seem to have the same issue with bisaminopropyl dimethicone or amodimethicone.) The hair would feel wonderful and silky at first, then start to feel dry, and that cycle repeated every wash. For me, some of those silicones just don't work well. Obviously, your mileage may vary -- some hair loves silicones, but mine doesn't.

Hmmm. I am not sure because I don't use the Pantene clarifying shampoo but every 2-3 weeks. I may need to cut back to just the Shea Moisture and try these things one at a time.

The hard water--Is there any rinse or something that I can do to lessen the negative effects of the hard water? A rinse of some kind?

Thanks for the heads-up on the "mister bottle" ingredients. I'll check it out!

Kellylee
May 22nd, 2017, 02:31 PM
It might be your pillow try a satin one. It may be frizz and friction due to cotton pillow case.

Obsidian
May 22nd, 2017, 02:33 PM
You can use diluted vinegar rinse to help with hard water. I use 1 tsp per 2 cups water, applied after conditioner rinse. I do not rinse the vinegar out.

Have you always used coconut oil? It can make some people's hair brittle, maybe try a different oil for awhile, I really like avocado.

*Wednesday*
May 22nd, 2017, 02:36 PM
I sleep on a charmeuse silk pillowcase with my hair spread above the pillow. The air is extremely dry here (in a reclaimed desert part of California). The water is very hard with no water softener.

What about oiling your hair at night and wearing it up or braiding it at nignt? If you like it loose, what about a sleeping cap?

*Wednesday*
May 22nd, 2017, 02:41 PM
Your water can also be a problem, in case your hair doesn't like hard water (I've read many people don't have problems with it) and in case you don't have an effective chalating routine. Hard water can make hair feel dry, brittle, rough and less shiny.

I had this problem with an apartment I used to live in and had "hard water." It was aweful on my hair. I got so many tangles and hair breakage. I'm glad I left after a year. ☺ My hair was so much better.

Prism
May 22nd, 2017, 06:40 PM
What about oiling your hair at night and wearing it up or braiding it at nignt? If you like it loose, what about a sleeping cap?

I don't think I'd need a sleeping cap with the silk pillowcase in use. In the morning the hair above my head is pretty much the way I left it at night, so I don't think it's a friction thing. I haven't tried oiling before bed--been too worried about the rest of it getting oily too fast. Will see if I can find a lighter oil to do that with. Any recommendations? Thanks!

Prism
May 22nd, 2017, 06:49 PM
You can use diluted vinegar rinse to help with hard water. I use 1 tsp per 2 cups water, applied after conditioner rinse. I do not rinse the vinegar out.

Have you always used coconut oil? It can make some people's hair brittle, maybe try a different oil for awhile, I really like avocado.

Thanks for your reply. I used to use the ACV rinse after conditioner, but my hair got too dry (even not long after a shower), so I discontinued it. How often do you use it?

Haven't tried the avocado oil before. I'm using the coconut oil mainly because it's able to be absorbed by the hair and runs cheaper than many oils do.

*Wednesday*
May 22nd, 2017, 07:15 PM
I don't think I'd need a sleeping cap with the silk pillowcase in use. In the morning the hair above my head is pretty much the way I left it at night, so I don't think it's a friction thing. I haven't tried oiling before bed--been too worried about the rest of it getting oily too fast. Will see if I can find a lighter oil to do that with. Any recommendations? Thanks!

I use Ogx Weightless argan oil or the weightless coconut oil. It's not heavy. Be careful on the silk pillowcase it doesn't stain it or rubs on your skin if it gets on the pillowcase. I wear my hair up at night to keep contained after oiling.

Prism
May 22nd, 2017, 07:27 PM
I use Ogx Weightless argan oil or the weightless coconut oil. It's not heavy. Be careful on the silk pillowcase it doesn't stain it or rubs on your skin if it gets on the pillowcase. I wear my hair up at night to keep contained after oiling.

Thanks for the recommendations. Do you wear a sleep bonnet? I would be concerned about oil on the pillowcase.

*Wednesday*
May 22nd, 2017, 07:53 PM
Thanks for the recommendations. Do you wear a sleep bonnet? I would be concerned about oil on the pillowcase.

No. I wear a loose bun with a scrunchy. At times a loose braid. I like the different textures I get when I wear it up at night and take it down the next morning. I focus the oil midway down to the ends. The oil is pretty well absorbed by the time I'm in the bed. The Ogx Weightless comes in a spray. So it's a light misting. I haven't had any issue with oil on the pillowcase. Over oiling this could happen. I have fine hair and the weightless oil seems to work very well for me. It doesn't overdo it. Also considering the fact I only wash twice a week Sunday and Wednesday. I just need the light mistings and my hair stays hydrated.

Obsidian
May 22nd, 2017, 08:09 PM
Thanks for your reply. I used to use the ACV rinse after conditioner, but my hair got too dry (even not long after a shower), so I discontinued it. How often do you use it?

Haven't tried the avocado oil before. I'm using the coconut oil mainly because it's able to be absorbed by the hair and runs cheaper than many oils do.

I don't use vinegar much anymore, I'm lazy and switched to a chelating shampoo instead. At one point I used it every wash which was usually every 2-3 days.

Avocado oil can be absorbed by hair too. If you do try it, don't use much, it's heavier than coconut and easy to over do.

Rebeccalaurenxx
May 22nd, 2017, 08:21 PM
Yeah, have you ever chelated? My hair use to be like yours but chelating helped A LOT and now the dry feeling got better. Its not completely gone, I do need to oil and moisturize well but in the end its usually damage related. My hair felt the best when I was microtrimming every month. Dont really know why.

Vivalagina
May 22nd, 2017, 08:48 PM
I have to use a chelation shampoo to see any difference in my hair - I like the Joico one a lot. We have very hard water so I try to do it once a month or so.

Prism
May 22nd, 2017, 10:12 PM
Yeah, have you ever chelated? My hair use to be like yours but chelating helped A LOT and now the dry feeling got better. Its not completely gone, I do need to oil and moisturize well but in the end its usually damage related. My hair felt the best when I was microtrimming every month. Dont really know why.

Not unless the clarifying shampoo by Pantene qualifies. I'm unfamiliar with the term. What chelating shampoo do you use?

Prism
May 22nd, 2017, 10:13 PM
I have to use a chelation shampoo to see any difference in my hair - I like the Joico one a lot. We have very hard water so I try to do it once a month or so.

I'll put it on my list to get next time I'm at Ulta. Thanks for the recommendation!

pailin
May 23rd, 2017, 12:39 AM
This is actually one of my reasons for being a daily washer (besides my scalp being happier, and the fact that the greasiness just never improved when I tried to stretch washes), and also for not bothering with scalp-only washing. I wash at night, and my hair is just happier if I wash daily - second-morning hair acts dry and frizzy, and nothing helps much. Since I like washing daily anyway, I just decided I wasn't going to feel guilt about it. The length where I find it too impractical is probably the point where I decide not to grow any longer.

Prism
May 23rd, 2017, 10:54 AM
This is actually one of my reasons for being a daily washer (besides my scalp being happier, and the fact that the greasiness just never improved when I tried to stretch washes), and also for not bothering with scalp-only washing. I wash at night, and my hair is just happier if I wash daily - second-morning hair acts dry and frizzy, and nothing helps much. Since I like washing daily anyway, I just decided I wasn't going to feel guilt about it. The length where I find it too impractical is probably the point where I decide not to grow any longer.

Thanks for weighing in. I often feel like I am abusing my hair because I wash it every day. It's nice to see a daily washer that has long (and beautiful!) hair.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4270/34846146415_6f79572fcf_n.jpg

A long time ago I was sent some hair oil for review: Luseta Macademia Hair Oil Treatment (https://www.flickr.com/photos/liora/shares/ckZx11). I only just tried it last night with GREAT results. It felt like my hair just drank it up. I washed last night, then applied the oil, and this morning my hair doesn't feel like a pile of straw. Are these ingredients okay? I am a bit concerned about the paraffinum liquidum: It sounds like a wax, and I'm not sure whether those are good for hair.

Paraffinum Liquidum, Ethylhexyl Palmitate, Macadamia Ternifolia Seed Oil, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Oil, Tocopheryl Acetate, Parfum, Argania Spinosa Kernal Oil, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (sweet Almond) Oil, Lavandula Angustifolia )Lavender) Oil, BHT, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil

pailin
May 23rd, 2017, 11:13 AM
I'm glad you find it helpful. :) And I'm definitely not the only one around here.
Washing can be damaging of course, and hair is more easily damaged when wet, so it's important to be extra careful handling it. A lot of people do find their hair does well with less frequent washing, or they find it makes life easier for them. But most of these long hair rules are really only guidelines - a good starting place.
I've also heard people say you can get away with one bad hair habit. So for me, I figure this is it, and I don't commit any others. And then I moisturize like crazy.
I live in a place that's pretty hot and humid year round, so I was worried I'd have to change everything up when I spend most of last winter in the US, but all I did was add a leave in conditioner before my silicone serum, and my hair was great.
For the oil you're trying, I'm glad you found something your hair liked! Paraffinum liquidum is basically a fancy word for mineral oil (the stuff in baby oil, usually). It's fine for hair. Some people say it can cause buildup, but shampoo should remove it easily so it's really nothing to worry about. I've been experimenting with baby oil lately as a few drops of rinse-out oil, with conditioner, and it really kills frizz!

lapushka
May 23rd, 2017, 11:18 AM
Thanks for weighing in. I often feel like I am abusing my hair because I wash it every day. It's nice to see a daily washer that has long (and beautiful!) hair.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4270/34846146415_6f79572fcf_n.jpg

A long time ago I was sent some hair oil for review: Luseta Macademia Hair Oil Treatment (https://www.flickr.com/photos/liora/shares/ckZx11). I only just tried it last night with GREAT results. It felt like my hair just drank it up. I washed last night, then applied the oil, and this morning my hair doesn't feel like a pile of straw. Are these ingredients okay? I am a bit concerned about the paraffinum liquidum: It sounds like a wax, and I'm not sure whether those are good for hair.

Paraffinum Liquidum, Ethylhexyl Palmitate, Macadamia Ternifolia Seed Oil, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Oil, Tocopheryl Acetate, Parfum, Argania Spinosa Kernal Oil, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (sweet Almond) Oil, Lavandula Angustifolia )Lavender) Oil, BHT, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil

Don't worry even a *bit* about the ingredients if your hair responds well to it. That's what it's all about, happy scalp and happy hair, whatever you have to do!

Prism
May 23rd, 2017, 11:35 AM
For the oil you're trying, I'm glad you found something your hair liked! Paraffinum liquidum is basically a fancy word for mineral oil (the stuff in baby oil, usually). It's fine for hair. Some people say it can cause buildup, but shampoo should remove it easily so it's really nothing to worry about. I've been experimenting with baby oil lately as a few drops of rinse-out oil, with conditioner, and it really kills frizz!

Yay. My clarifying shampoo used every couple of weeks should remove the film. What's the silicone serum you like so much? Thanks for your post!

Prism
May 23rd, 2017, 11:37 AM
Don't worry even a *bit* about the ingredients if your hair responds well to it. That's what it's all about, happy scalp and happy hair, whatever you have to do!

I worry about the cones in serums. They make my hair feel soft, smooth and silky, but it could be a temporary thing. I don't want to do more damage! I notice that my hair feels really dry when I use the clarifying shampoo. I guess it strips everything. Is there a clarifying shampoo you really like that doesn't feel like it removes every bit of moisture from your hair?

pailin
May 23rd, 2017, 11:57 AM
Cones in serums aren't damaging. If anything, they may help prevent mechanical damage, because they give so much slip. Some people will say that they actually make their hair behave dryer, but that's not the same. There is a lot of fear of silicones out there on the Internet, but it's really not at all justified. My favorite conditioner is actually silicone - free, but I like it because I like how it makes my hair feel, and because I seem to get fewer split ends. Then I put a siliconey serum on top....
I was using Loreal Extraordinary Oil, then this past winter I was using up an old Garnier Fructis serum. Lately I'm on a local cheap brand here that wouldn't be available in the US. I started out using only a few drops, but now I use a couple of pumps (but not all at once- one squirt, apply, another squirt etc.)- for me I found up to that much it continues to be better and better, but after that, it starts to be greasy. It might be way too much for other people.
I like silicone serum because it really does help with detangling. Usually these days it's actually pretty quick (and growing up, I used to be nightmares of tangles, and a destroyer of brushes and combs).
For clarifying shampoo, I don't really use one. I use a relatively harsh regular shampoo because a while ago I figured out that my scalp basically hates 'moisturing' shampoos (ie all the creamy ones). Normally I use Pantene Aquapure, which I think is an Asia only line (I suspect it's similar to the Aqualight). As long as I'm using this, I don't notice any need for a different clarifying shampoo.

Prism
May 23rd, 2017, 12:39 PM
pailin, I have lots of coney serums that I've been afraid to use (product junkie, it seems!). It does seem like there's a lot of differing opinions on the cones. They really tame my waves, and when I'm wanting a smooth look with hair down I want to reach for the serums.

Arctic
May 23rd, 2017, 01:19 PM
Cones are not bad, but some hair agrees with them more than others. Also there are many types of cones, not all are equal. I personally prefer how my hair feels without cones so I favour products without, but in general I haven't noticed any universal negative effects on my hair. What I did notice with my latest experiment with coney spray detanglers was, that they made my hair super oily super fast.

I am not an expert but to my understanding many acids seem to have metal binding or removing properties. Many popular acids, again to my understanding, remove a certain type of mineral better than others. Vinegar, citric acid and vitamin C are all used to remove minerals. There is a popular recipe called Miracle Water which is said to be very effective at chelating (=removing minerals).

I personally favour actual store bought special shampoos which remove minerals, chelating shampoos in other words. They are the easiest to use on a long term, and just suit me the best. My latest chelating shampoo is Redken Hair Cleansing Cream shampoo. it also clarifies at the same time.

I'm sorry I don't have any suggestion for hair feeling bad after clarifying. Mine never does, in fact mine feels GREAT after clarifying and/or chelating. This has always been the case, no matter which shampoos I've tried. Now the home made acidic rinses can leave my hair a bit dry (I'm looking at you, strong vitamin C treatments!) and few times years ago, when I tried baking soda, my hair was floofy and strange (it was touted back then to be an excellent clarifier. These days people avoid it because it can damage hair).

Anje
May 23rd, 2017, 01:50 PM
Cones in serums aren't damaging. If anything, they may help prevent mechanical damage, because they give so much slip. Some people will say that they actually make their hair behave dryer, but that's not the same.
See, my problem is that when they make my hair dry, I get little hooks on the very ends of the hair. I get way more tangles, fairy knots, and potentially breakage. The silicones themselves aren't causing the damage, but they're directly leading to it. Now I'll be the first to say that this isn't a super-common response, and I have no clue why my hair does this, but in my case yes, some silicones do lead to damage. Ultimately, it comes down to making sure that what you're doing is actually working for you, rather than wanting it to work because it's working so beautifully for other people.

Arctic
May 23rd, 2017, 02:10 PM
Anje, some conditioners make my hair form fairy knots too. I have never been able to pin point which ingredients are the culprits, but some of the conditioners have been cone-free too. I have been theorising this might be some slip forming ingredients' fault. Interesting to hear you also have found conditioners can cause fairy knots, I think I might have never seen anyone else tell this, although I haven't really been investigating the subject either.

Who knows, maybe silicones make my hair dryer too in the long run, but I usually give them up soon after starting to use them because I don't like how my hair feels with them. They often buld up very fast on my hair, but so seems to be happening with most products/ingredients.

Sorry, a bit off-topic ramblings.

ZeppHead
May 23rd, 2017, 02:26 PM
I have this same problem which is why I end up taking two showers a day. I don't need to shampoo daily but after sleeping on my hair whether I did or didn't shower at night I will need to shower in the morning. I usually just need a conditioning because my hair looks bad and nothing else will fix it except wetting it down and starting over from scratch. If you sleep with your hair loose this may be the culprit. Have you thought about a sleep cap? If I don't want to shower in the morning I can usually let my hair loose in a sleep cap(silk or satin) and my hair retains moisture overnight and looks good enough to wear down until later on when I am able to get a shower. Might be something to give a shot.

Prism
May 23rd, 2017, 02:30 PM
ZeppHead, I sleep on a silk pillowcase. I don't think the dryness is from friction.

Anje
May 23rd, 2017, 03:29 PM
Anje, some conditioners make my hair form fairy knots too. I have never been able to pin point which ingredients are the culprits, but some of the conditioners have been cone-free too. I have been theorising this might be some slip forming ingredients' fault. Interesting to hear you also have found conditioners can cause fairy knots, I think I might have never seen anyone else tell this, although I haven't really been investigating the subject either.

Who knows, maybe silicones make my hair dryer too in the long run, but I usually give them up soon after starting to use them because I don't like how my hair feels with them. They often buld up very fast on my hair, but so seems to be happening with most products/ingredients.

Sorry, a bit off-topic ramblings.
More off-topic rambling: For all I know, the increased fairy knots I get with silicone serums and heavily coney conditioners might be because I'm more inclined to wear my hair loose. I don't think that's it, because it's not THAT much more time, but I'm sure the increased silkiness affects my behavior as well. (It's definitely silky on day 1. It's more like on day 2 or 3 that I start to notice dryness and more than the normal amount of tangling.) It can be hard to pin these things down.

Chocowalnut
May 23rd, 2017, 11:09 PM
I have the same problem and it's very frustrating. Most of the time my hair is only good on wash day.

lapushka
May 24th, 2017, 07:30 AM
I worry about the cones in serums. They make my hair feel soft, smooth and silky, but it could be a temporary thing. I don't want to do more damage! I notice that my hair feels really dry when I use the clarifying shampoo. I guess it strips everything. Is there a clarifying shampoo you really like that doesn't feel like it removes every bit of moisture from your hair?

If you clarify regularly (and you do), there is nothing to really worry about. Natural oils, butters and waxes can build up on the hair too. Silicones, same thing. It all can build up. It's not that natural is better here. :) That's why it's important to trust your hair and scalp, see how it reacts to each individual product.

mizukitty
May 24th, 2017, 07:44 AM
Living with hard water for ages before I got the softener, this sounds all too familiar to me!! All silky soft when it's wet, damp, and then almost dry, but feels awful when it dries completely.

My own theory is that the TDS (total dissolved solids) stay on your hair after the shower, but the presence of extra water lessens the roughness/grippiness. When the extra water completely evaporates, you're left with just the deposits on your hair + whatever water the atmosphere provides. Since you live in a dry area, it might be exacerbating the way it feels on your hair. Chelating should help with this. Or, if you feel like experimenting, wash your hair with distilled or deionized water, using the same products and steps. If it feels a lot better, you've pinpointed your problem :)

Good luck!!

pailin
May 24th, 2017, 10:36 AM
See, my problem is that when they make my hair dry, I get little hooks on the very ends of the hair. I get way more tangles, fairy knots, and potentially breakage. The silicones themselves aren't causing the damage, but they're directly leading to it. Now I'll be the first to say that this isn't a super-common response, and I have no clue why my hair does this, but in my case yes, some silicones do lead to damage. Ultimately, it comes down to making sure that what you're doing is actually working for you, rather than wanting it to work because it's working so beautifully for other people.

That is pretty interesting how that happens for you,and a good reason for you to stay away from them.
And I think your last point really is important - do what works for you, and don't worry whether other people would do it or not.