Argh! (just CAN'T seem to get it right)

[Freija]

I have an itchy scalp, which never feels clean- as though there's buildup, especially over the top and back of my scalp, although there isn't. No flakes either, so it's not dandruff, although when I scratch my scalp I notice a strange, slightly musty smell on my fingers.

I stopped using sulfates and cones recently, and that really did seem to help... for one, maybe two washes. Then the same problems just returned (as they always seem to, no matter what I try). I still lose a lot of hair each time I wash it, to the point at which my hair is actually feeling thinner- I look at photographs from several years ago with absolute envy. Right now it's lifeless, dull, frizzy and gets greasy too fast (I wash every day, or my scalp feels awful). I'm limited as to what I can use, as I have extremely hard water- please, does anybody have advice?

[Katze]

your hair and scalp sound a lot like mine. When I first came here I tried EVERYTHING, from no 'poo and baking soda to CO...and then eventually went back to sulfate shampoos, which I feel are the only thing that gets my scalp really clean. I don't use sulfate shampoo every time I wash, but I do make sure to use it when my hair/scalp are feeling like you describe.

Any time my hair gets the way you describe, if I shampoo it with sulfates, sometimes even twice, I get shiny, sleek (for me) hair again.

You say you 'have to' wash every day, but you might be caught in a cycle where your hair isn't getting really clean, INSTEAD of overcleaning it and making it produce too much sebum (which would be the reason to use less or no sulfates).

It is sometimes really hard to figure out what your hair and scalp really want, especially when they are temperamental, but stick with it, you'll get there! :)

hth!

[Freija]

Katze- thankyou for your words of encouragement ^^; I really want to avoid sulfates if at all possible, since one of the things I'm most worried about is the amount of hair I'm losing, and that's the last thing I can think of that may be causing it (I henna and never style- just comb through carefully while damp and airdry)- though it doesn't seem to make much of a difference whether I sulfate or not. But right now... anything's worth a try! I really miss the days when I could dye my hair with any chemical I liked, blowdry, straighten, wash it every two or three days with sls and cones and have gorgeous, thick hair and a clean scalp... XD;

[Freija]

Oh- something interesting about the sls-free shampoo I use- it seems to make my hair really dry and fragile-feeling right after I've put it on. As though it could snap at a touch. But as soon as I've applied conditioner, it feels fine again... I've no idea why.

[Arctic]

Sorry to hear you're having troubles. Have you tried clarifying? What about scalp scrub?

If you haven't already, I recommend talking to your doctor about the hair loss, it can be indicator of many imbalances and deficiensies of the body. Good luck!

[Peggy E.]

We have sebhorea in our family (thanks, Mom!) and I've struggled with scalp problems for years. Now, this is caused by an overproduction of oil, so moisturizing my hair and scalp even further seemed like a somewhat ludicrous endeavor.

What I've been doing for some time now, and it has helped immeasurably, is CO with a vinegar-water rinse, making sure the rinse gets over my entire scalp. Since adding the vinegar-water rinse to my washing routine, I am no longer getting that crust-like, itchy matter on my scalp, nor do I have that mushy, yucky thing going on with my scalp, either.

You might try it, particularly having mentioned that you have hard water, the rinse might well help.

Good luck!

[brok3nwings]

People that wash their hair everyday and dont blowdry the roots makes the bed to bacteria... so if you really have to wash everyday dry very well your roots otherwise your hair will never dry enought and that is probably one of the reasons why it is falling so much.
About your water i think you should try a vinegar rinse after or a distilled water rinse to take the excess mineral in your hair.
Good luck!

[savi]

I second Peggy E. and was actually going to ask you to try a water-vinegar rinse myself. I remember someone also saying that shikakai rinse might help with the itching.
I hope it gets better!

[aisling]

People that wash their hair everyday and dont blowdry the roots makes the bed to bacteria... so if you really have to wash everyday dry very well your roots otherwise your hair will never dry enought and that is probably one of the reasons why it is falling so much.


Who on earth has told you that? Some blowdrier happy hairdresser? I'd really like to see some research on this because I frankly have some problems believing this theory.

To the OP, shedding lots of hair right now can actually also depend on the season, I have an autumn shed right now that's been going on for a couple of months. It's quite depressing to shed a wookie every time you wash, but it will pass.

I second Katze's suggestion of mixing, using a sulfate free shampoo one day and one with sulfates the other day, it can be a good way to keep your scalp happy. Also, dilute your shampoo, I think it sounds like you're over cleansing your scalp, forcing it to produce more sebum. This wasn't as noticeable when you also dried it out with chemicals but now with gentler methods, it's more noticeable.

[chelles2kids]

I have similar symtoms, but mine are more like little flaky, itchy patches that sometimes scab over.

Sorry. TMI there.

But what I've found that has worked wonders is a Tea Tree Shampoo. I know alot of people here use the actual Tea Tree Essential Oil for different applications, so something along this line might work for you as well?
The shampoo that I use is by Giovanni, but I'm sure there are others out there as well.

Hope your able to come up with a solution soon, I know how aggravating it can be.:(

[spidermom]

A second on the tea tree shampoo idea; it feels wonderful on the scalp. If you haven't already, put conditioner on your length, shake your shampoo up in some water so that you can squirt it all over your scalp, then run your finger-pads over your scalp from front to back to work the shampoo solution through. Don't worry if you don't get a lot of suds; it will clean anyway. Rinse and then use more conditioner to the length; keep it off your scalp. I think it's better to use a blow-dryer to your scalp area than to leave it wet for hours, especially if you're having problems.

I'd also recommend bending forward, hair falling toward the floor, and brushing thoroughly before washing. This gets out shed hairs and is very stimulating for the scalp.

[Freija]

Oh, wow- thankyou so much for your advice, everybody!

I'm definitely going to try using vinegar rinses and I'll try to track down a tea-tree shampoo. Maybe I'll use original source since it's cheap and readily available and I can space it out with my sls-free shampoo to baby my hair a bit. I also think I might have had my rinsewater too hot; I tried keeping it lukewarm yesterday evening and it seemed better. It even has a little body back!

I never put conditioner on my scalp; I always get major greasies if I do!

Something spidermom said that made me wonder, though- I don't ever brush my hair, since I'm a curlyhead. I use a wide-toothed comb to detangle and try not to touch my scalp at all between washes. Maybe I should start brushing, or at least massaging the scalp- are there any accepted techniques for this?


...yet more questions, I know, and this is going to sound stupid- but- how do I dilute my shampoo? The last time I tried, if I diluted it enough to make any difference I ended up with something so runny it wouldn't spread around my scalp properly, and refused to lather in my impossible water...


Thanks for taking time to answer, everyone- to find so many posts when I signed on this afternoon was amazing! ^^;

[Delila]

About the dilute shampoo thing: I dilute mine about 7:1 with water, putting it in a squirt bottle (mine's a dishwashing soap bottle I've repurposed). To apply and get it all over my scalp, I bend down my head and apply the shampoo liquid at the back of my neck, letting the liquid run forward across my head, catching it and working it across my scalp with my fingers. It goes fast, but is definitely do-able. There's a learning curve for application, but this method works well for me.

I haven't been diluting the shampoos I've been using lately, since I've found some that doesn't seem to bother my scalp, and it's just easier to use straight. (I've been using Ellin Lavar's Optimoist, but from the reviews I've read here, it's definitely a YMMV sort of thing. I'm also reasonably certain our water types aren't similar.)

For me, CO never worked well in the long run, and my scalp just never felt really clean. My scalp is just naturally oily, and that's all there is to it. I avoid getting conditioner on my scalp, because it contributes to the oiliness.

Have you tried herbal cleansing? I mention it because I found that my scalp responded well to it. I used Morrocco Method, soapwort and a few others for a good while, but eventually I gave it up because my hair needed more conditioning. (Most of the natural conditioners are just too heavy for my fine hair.) Lately, though, I've been using a brief catnip rinse after shampooing, and I love the results. Would I like herbal cleansing as an ordinary routine now that I've discovered catnip conditioning? I'm not sure, and just at the moment I need to use up the stash of products I have in the cabinet, so I won't be experimenting any time soon.

[spidermom]

I dilute my shampoo in an empty shampoo bottle that I saved. I would guess that I put about 1/2 cup of water in there and then a modest squirt of shampoo, shake well. I hold the ends of my hair in one hand while I bend forward and squirt the back part of my scalp, then straighten up and squirt the front part. Then I do the running my fingers over my head from front to back a bunch of times to make sure I wash my entire scalp hair area. The solution running through my hair with the rinse cleans my length of all but the heaviest oiling.

Freija, since your hair is curly, I'd only recommend brushing just before you wash it. Detangle with a comb first, then at least brush over your scalp area while bending toward the floor. You don't have to carry the brush all the way through to the ends of you don't want to (but I do). Alternatively, you could give yourself a nice scalp massage with the pads of your fingers it you'd prefer. I really love the way my brush feels, so I do it for pleasure as well as for scalp stimulation.

[Arctic]

I use aloe vera gel for diluting the shampoo, it doesn't make it too runny and thus is easier to apply than shampoo diluted with water. Also my hair likes aloe very much :) I just mix them in my hand.

One other idea I used while I still tried the shampoo diluted with water, was to part my hair in 2, like I would make pigtails, put both sections in front of your shoulders. Squirt the shampoo around the hairline and along the part then massage it deeper into the hair/scalp with fingertips. This way you can easily get the diluted shampoo from squirt bottle to the scalp at the back and crown area, which I otherwise found difficult.