Feedback on routine for dry hair

[Siv]

Hiya!

I'm new here, a long-time lurker, but first post :D (And what a humongous post it will be, yikes.)

I was hoping someone can give me some feedback on a potential new routine for my - apparently - dry hair! I thought it's a bit of a newbie question, so I'd try to post on this board. I've had a bit of a case of split ends lately (about 2 months before I usually get them after a trim) so I went to the hair dresser awhile ago and she said I had dry hair as well. Wowza, I've never had that before! Ever. I've fine, wavy hair. It's blonde and tend to be affected a lot colour-wise by sun and wind. Lately, it's lightened up a lot in the spring sun - as well as acquired some split ends - so it seems fair that it could be a bit damaged and dry, I guess. Anyway, I've been doing some research here and on reddit (r/haircarescience) and I think I've figured out a decent remedy.

Cleanser
I've been both on SLS and (different types of) nopoo and CO-wash for ages, but it never really worked out for me. Now, I'm on a sulfate-free shampoo. First I thought I'd switch my shampoo which includes zwitterionic surfactants such as cocamidoprpyl betaine to one with only nonionic surfactants. Here's a wikipedia link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfactant#Classification) to surfactant classifications, and according to this post on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/HaircareScience/comments/1woutk/all_about_silicones/), they seem to be listed from harshest to gentlest in the wikipedia article. So if I understand correctly anionic surfactants are stuff like SLS, zitterionic ones are a step better, and nonionic are the gentlest?

Deep treatment
I haven't had any luck with deep treatments so far, but I thought I'd stick with it. The one I have goes on between shampoo and conditioner, since hair should be "clean" and then the conditioner seals the cuticles. Seems fair, I think?? Like, it should penetrate better when the cuticles are all roughed up after cleansing?

Conditioner
I've been using a couple of different silicone-free conditioners, since I figured the gentler shampoo wouldn't wash out silicones, but according to the reddit-link above it seems I was wrong about that. Still, the conditioners leave my hair silky for a day at least, and both have coconut oil high up in the ingredient list, so I think they're ok especially if I switch to an even gentler shampoo.

Treatments
I've tried a pre-made leave-in conditioner, but it left my hair sticky. I've tried making my own mixing regular conditioner and water, but it didn't really do anything for me or left it sticky if I used too much conditioner. I can never apply oils properly, perhaps because I've non-porous hair. Coconut oil especially is a right mess in my hair! What I thought I'd do, since I think my hair is a bit damaged, is to invest in the Redken pH-Bonding Post-Service Perfector (pre-cleansing treatment) as well as a bit more high end leave-in treatment. The Redken treatment is like Olaplex (but way cheaper...), and this particular product is the at home treatment that you're supposed to use after you get a full treatment at the salon. However, it's just the same thing only weaker, and it's supposed to be a permanent fix rather than like silicones that just smooth down the damage but doesn't fix it. Does it seem fair? I'm not sure. Then, the leave-in treatment to really seal in that water from the shower.

So, does this seem like a good idea? I'm kind of iffy about the Redken product since I've also heard it acts similarly to a protein treatment, and apparently protein should be bad for hair types like mine - but I'm not entirely sure on why. Plus, the thing that it should be permanent rather than wash out - really?!

[Arctic]

Hi and welcome! I asked the mods to move your post to the mane board, as this is not newbie/basic stuff and secondly, you will simply get more views and answers there.

Dry hair is not uncommon, and I'm sure you'll get your your moisture levels upwards with right care. Have you properly clarified your hair? Build-up is a very common reason for dry feeling. You might want to read more about protein-moisture balance too.

First, let me ask you a question: how knowlegeable are you about these things you write about? They are not your basic stuff but quite specific and advanced. I'm not quite sure from your post how much you know and how much you guess/quote etc. Many of the things you write about are very theoretic. It's really impossible to say that this type of surfactant will be the best for you. Hair health doesn't happen only "on paper", something you can theorize in you mind and then make it work just like that. Usually person needs to try try and try again in practice to see what works and what doesn't. And it will be evolving too, not something static (for most people). There are so many variables in work, no one can tell you over the internet that this or that surfactant will be the best for your particular hair (and scalp and water, etc.). Hair/scalp/water is a highly individual thing. (Also shampoos are complex formulations of maybe even tens of ingredients, the surfactant(s) being just one/few.)

Which leads me ask: what is your hair type like? What is your hair history? How have you treated your hair in the past? How do you wear your hair?

What kind is the deep treatment you talk about? I personally don't know any deep treatment that goes between shampoo and normal conditioner, deep treatments usually are used instead of normal rinse out conditioner. In case of heavy protein treatments, often it's needed to follow up those with a moisturising treatment right away. While cuticles are somewhat lifted due to hair shafts swelling from water, if yours are down right roughed up after washing, your washing method might not be a good one. That sounds damaging. As for deep treatment recommendations, many people here swear by SMTs, you can find the recipe/thread at the DIY sub-forum.

If your rinse out conditioners work for you and you are not noticing instant buildup, that sounds like something you can keep in your routine. No need to fix what isn't broken. Yes many types of surfactants can clean silicones, but these are again very individual things. Some people get build up easily, some do not. Some people get buildup from some conditioners/ingredients but not from others. Some people find X surfactant works for their hair/products/water and Y surfactant does not, even if wikipedia says Y should clean their products off of their hair.

In my experience leave-ins are difficult to get right (for me). They tend to make my hair sticky too, or they contain ingredients that don't work for me. It's very common to not to get along with coconut oil. There are many oils to try, though, each can have different effects to your hair. You can also test when and where you apply oil: many people like rinse out oil method, and pre-poo oiling method for example, but not oil as leave in. Some people have better luck with oiling dry hair, some wet hair, some damp hair, some like LOC method or its variables.

We could give you more info and/or opinions of the products you use/mention if you would find ingredient lists and links to pages where the product descriptions are for us. And remember sometimes it's more about methods than products, for example CWC washing method, pre-poo oiling, LOC and WCC methods, scalp only washes (etc...) might work for you with your old stuff. When it comes to whether a product can permanantly fix damaged hair, I have hard time believing anything is permanent with hair - at the very least it will grow out and will be cut off eventually. Hair is dead and cannot be healed, only patched up. What can be done is preventing hair from getting unnecessary damage, and improving its condition.

And lastly, don't try too many changes at once, otherwise it's difficult of downright impossible to know what actually works and what doesn't. I recommend starting a hair journal (or blog here at LHC when you get enough posts), it helps a lot in getting to know your own hair. Sometimes it can be helpful to learn about the hair science - but sometimes it can be a hindrance and make things more complex than they'd need to be.

PS. Kudos for well organised and articulated post!

[lapushka]

One tip I could give you is to look for conditioners for "dry, damaged hair". Those are the most moisturizing on the market, and are the ones to pick up even if you don't have dry or damaged hair. I like my conditioners to be as moisturizing as possible.

There is something on this site called the "rinse-out oil method" which can make the hair significantly less dry and also the "LOC method" for styling. You could check both out by following the links in my signature, should you be interested.

[Simsy]

Just on the subject of oils, oils aren't all equal. For example, a lot of people can't use coconut oil because it's too heavy for their hair. You may have better luck with a lighter oil. I use a repair oil by Garnier, and a Moroccan argon oil that soaks in beautifully on my hair.

[Borgessa]

Jojoba oil is light, use just tiny amount, to moisten the hair after a wash, then your leave in. My hair is very fine and soft. It helps, my ends were sooo dry when the started here. I always add a little water before applying my oils and conditioners, I am providing the moisture to lock in. I use a spritzer bottle when not washing. My hair is Soo different now.

[Siv]

Thanks for you thorough response, Arctic! And also for the move, I wasn't entirely sure where to post. I'll try to answer your questions.


Have you properly clarified your hair? Build-up is a very common reason for dry feeling. You might want to read more about protein-moisture balance too.

I have tried clarifying, and do so if I've used heavy products (which I only do for special occasions). When I've clarified without using heavy product I found it gave me that regular extra "bounce" that SLS gives me but it didn't do much else. And thanks for mentioning protein-moisture balance, I've found most things I've read about protein confusing so I'll make sure to google that to see if I can make more sense of it.


First, let me ask you a question: how knowlegeable are you about these things you write about? They are not your basic stuff but quite specific and advanced. I'm not quite sure from your post how much you know and how much you guess/quote etc. Many of the things you write about are very theoretic. It's really impossible to say that this type of surfactant will be the best for you. Hair health doesn't happen only "on paper", something you can theorize in you mind and then make it work just like that. Usually person needs to try try and try again in practice to see what works and what doesn't.

I wouldn't say I have a firm grasp of these things, I tend to go a read articles to get a simple overview (wherever they may be - blogs, forums, wikipedia, youtube) and then dig deeper into their sources to see what's really going on, and if the article or clip misrepresented anything. A lot of times, the sciency stuff in the original sources trip me up! Text books and scientific articles are a bit too technical for me, but I do my best. As for trying things out myself - I have tried different types of oil treatments (before showering on wet and dry hair), different types of cleansing methods (WO, CO-wash, sulfate free, SLS...) and so on over the years, but most (except oil treatments) haven't been specifically to target dry hair. Rather, for other purposes.


what is your hair type like? What is your hair history? How have you treated your hair in the past? How do you wear your hair?

I'd say my hair type is very fine, long-ish, a bit sensitive to mechanical damage (hair ties, bed linen) but not necessarily to heat styling or drying alcohols, very non-porous. I don't put heat or alcohols on it often at all so it could just be that I haven't let the damage build up. I try to wear a little silk bonnet to sleep but it comes off really easily. It's fairly straight with loose waves (depending on humidity, season, "mood" - it kind of goes wavy whenever it wants to :p). I've never dyed it, ever, but the sun and wind does take a noticeable toll on it, not just the bleaching effect, but during summer I get split ends faster and it's previously been "slightly dry" but nothing I couldn't fix with an extra hair mask a week. I don't do much to my hair, I leave it out most days when I'm off or in a pony-tail with non-snag hair ties or in a hair claw for work. Mostly pony-tails, since they hold up better during emergencies. I saw breakage with regular hair ties, but since I switched I haven't had any issues. Sometimes I braid it, but whatever style I do they fall out easily unless I'm on like... at least third day hair and dry shampoo.


What kind is the deep treatment you talk about? I personally don't know any deep treatment that goes between shampoo and normal conditioner, deep treatments usually are used instead of normal rinse out conditioner. In case of heavy protein treatments, often it's needed to follow up those with a moisturising treatment right away.

I use the Coco Loco Coconut Mask (http://www.boots.com/lee-stafford-coco-loco-coconut-mask-200ml-10203930) - the link also has the ingredient list. I've used it for a year or so, and never had an issue, so I'm not sure if anything changed that made it ineffective. Maybe a change in conditioner? It does include some protein, and a bit of amodimethicone (but, again, I don't think I've an issue with build up?) I really need to figure out how proteins work...


When it comes to whether a product can permanantly fix damaged hair, I have hard time believing anything is permanent with hair - at the very least it will grow out and will be cut off eventually. Hair is dead and cannot be healed, only patched up.

It does sound strange, doesn't it? I thought, perhaps, they've developed a product that is "super glue" for hair bonds, rather than "school glue". That the fix doesn't come out until you cut it off, rather than wash out with a few showers. But, my gut tells me it's a gimmick.

Finally, thanks again for all your advise! Off to research protein...



Lapushka, thank you!! I've tried the LOC method, but my hair and vegetable oils don't mesh well and I could never figure out how to do it properly. All those products just left my hair goopy haha! I've actually tried something like oil rinse too, but I think I'll give it another shot. I've only tried it the once before, and now I see that there are quite a few variations of it out there :)

[ghanima]

Dry hair is a quite straightforward and simple problem to solve, I think. It's just a matter of finding the way that's most practical for you to give your hair tips water and seal it.
For me too, oil on damp hair tips does the magic. I like warming the oil before applying it, as I'm low porosity like you. Spritz, oil, spritz again, braid. I do it pre-poo (and leave it on around half an hour while I steam face then do gommage then do mask - I call it my spa morning but if it took longer than half an hour total I wouldn't be able to do it consistently!) and between washes on an as-needed basis before going to bed, although I don't need the latter quite as much any more, as my hair feels rarely dry these days. Despite the low porosity, my hair does well with many kinds of oils, since I heat them to improve absorption, and I find it useful to rotate and not use always the same one. Be careful not to apply oils on the scalp, for some it has no negative repercussions but for others, including me, it causes major shedding.

You probably already know about it but as you don't mention it, I wanna say that CWC has many merits, one very big one being that it allows you to choose your shampoo based on how you scalp reacts to it and make the rest of the hair to be mainly about the conditioner. It simplifies things a lot to have that kind of separation, at least for me. It is something you can try. I am still going back and forth between CWC and CO, and it's true that CO may be less drying but nothing some consistent use of oils and DT and using rich yet light conditioners (like Lapushka suggested) can't address.
I've read here that some posters with your hair type do well with weekly shampoo+ DT and daily CO. I am not a frequent washer (1 week is what works best for me) so I have no personal experience with it.

Checking the proteins seems a good idea to me too. And don't under-estimate possible build-up even if your products are no-cones, with low porosity even air builds-up! that's also why I like using oils mainly pre-poo, so they do what they need to do for that half an hour and then they're removed.

[Kat-Rinnè Naido]

Jojoba oil is light, use just tiny amount, to moisten the hair after a wash, then your leave in. My hair is very fine and soft. It helps, my ends were sooo dry when the started here. I always add a little water before applying my oils and conditioners, I am providing the moisture to lock in. I use a spritzer bottle when not washing. My hair is Soo different now.

Wow thank you for sharing, Borgessa. I think I shall try this for my in between days when I oil my hair. As my hair gets so thirsty.

[Borgessa]

Wow thank you for sharing, Borgessa. I think I shall try this for my in between days when I oil my hair. As my hair gets so thirsty.
Your welcome, I hope it works for you too, I just got to get my hair to stop falling out at the blink of an eye haha :)

[lapushka]

Lapushka, thank you!! I've tried the LOC method, but my hair and vegetable oils don't mesh well and I could never figure out how to do it properly. All those products just left my hair goopy haha! I've actually tried something like oil rinse too, but I think I'll give it another shot. I've only tried it the once before, and now I see that there are quite a few variations of it out there :)

You don't have to use vegetable oils. I myself use a serum. The ones by IC Fantasia are nice light weight ones, that I still have, although I am now using up my Aldi (Kyrell) & Action (Hegron) serums.

[ghanima]

I am having a love affair with shea butter at the moment. It is super-cheap (I spent around 10€ for 1kg!) and so nourishing you wouldn't believe it. I softened it with some olive oil and added essentail oil and then use the salve as a leave-in and curl-enhancer. The prodigy is that only trace amounts are needed so it won't weigh the hair. It's the only thing I use for styling at the moment. Again, because with low-porosity you don't wanna have anything on that could build-up in the blink of an eye.

I plan on trying to make also a cream with it soon, as the added water can do only good.

[mizukitty]

Lots of really great responses in this thread!

I'm putting in another vote for protein - a lot of people swear it off right off the bat (especially if they try one product that doesn't work out.) But protein can be immensely helpful for fine hair, especially when it's been compromised with bleach, and even more so when it's long.

The key is to find a conditioner/leave-in/what have you with a formula that works for you. A lot of protein products (just from my observations) tend to leave out the moisturizing ingredients. This makes your hair feel disgusting and not smooth, and it's immediately protein that gets the blame (when it's just a bad formulation.) So, a product with a lot of fatty alcohols up very high, and some proteins thrown in lower down would be my best pick. I have a conditioner from Sally's called ion repair (silver bottle red text), and it's formulated beautifully.

I think silk amino acids are great for fine hair, and they also act as incredible humectants. IIRC, they are very similar to glycerin in this regard.

Good luck, happy experimenting! Most importantly don't forget to be patient and have fun. And post pics! :D We love to see hair!

[Siv]

Good luck, happy experimenting! Most importantly don't forget to be patient and have fun. And post pics! :D We love to see hair!

Can I just say thank you to all of you?! You're a great community! I've found all chip ins so far really enlightening and I'll definitely be doing in a bunch of reading, watching clips and reevaluating in the next few days. I'm sluggish and home sick with pneumonia currently so it might take awhile, but I'll get back to you all eventually :)