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Rebel Rebel
April 2nd, 2017, 03:03 PM
Hi everyone,

I've been browsing the informative and incredible Hair Science Thread started by meteor. I came across an article talking about water and hair porosity. Here is a quote on this topic.

"The cuticles are pushed out from force beneath as the endocuticle swells with water. In this position, the cuticles are more vulnerable to chipping and breakage which causes loss of protein from the hair and further increases porosity"

My hair feels extra good after doing an olive oil treatment, but I now wonder if I should be oiling before a shampoo more frequently to avoid water damage to my porous hair.

Does anyone do this or is there a name for this type of method? Here is the article I read in case you're interested.

http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2011/09/porosity-in-hair.html

littlestarface
April 2nd, 2017, 03:39 PM
Yes I always oil at least a day before washing with coconut oil to protect my hair. It really helps hair putting in this extra step.

Yarrow
April 2nd, 2017, 03:43 PM
I think it is quite popular due to the reasons that you cited.
I think if you heavily oil before you shampoo its called a pre-poo /pre-oiling and if you oil heavily in general its called a deep oil or something like that.
There are several different methods, some people like to heavily oil and then put a shower cap on it, go to bed and wash their head in the morning.
some people just oil it but not so much that it could mess anything up and leave stains.
and some people like to deep oil the lengths and then stick the braided lengths into a bag, and thats why thats is called the baggie method, I guess.
Its so funny, I was actually just thinking about using the baggie method in a more customised way and then you made a thread about it.
since the bags are so bulky, I was thinking about cutting them up and turning them into smaller bags, using this method .http://mehndiman.org/howto/cone_making/
Then I would just deep oil my lengths up to bsl and pop them in the baggie, secure the baggie by wrapping satin ribbons around it and then just bunning my hair, and then I could deep oil my lengths for the next wash and noone would ever know. the top secret baggie oiling method!
ok sorry for the detour, but yes absolutely try it out. you might have to experiment at first how much oil want to put in if you want to wash all the oil out, but I would give a few tries and if it then does not work, you can still go back to your regular oiling routine.

Ophidian
April 2nd, 2017, 04:12 PM
I like to use small amounts of coconut on the ends throughout the week. I figure this benefits the more porous ends and saves the headache (for me anyway) of trying to get a heavy oiling out. If I were using stronger detergents or COwashing, I might do a heavier pre-poo oiling but this works best for my overall routine.

Rebel Rebel
April 2nd, 2017, 04:40 PM
Ah ok! So everyone sort of has their way of incorporating oil before a shampoo and now I understand what a "pre poo" is! I don't do this as often as I should. I was doing it by accident when my hair was most damaged but I think it could really benefit going forward.

Yarrow- I'm only at BSL but I can see how sneaky that method is for longer hair. Brilliant!

Reyesuela
April 3rd, 2017, 02:43 AM
Coconut oil is the only oil that has been shown to protect hair from protein loss.

i just rub it on as the tub fills.

Rebel Rebel
April 3rd, 2017, 11:47 AM
Coconut oil is the only oil that has been shown to protect hair from protein loss.

i just rub it on as the tub fills.

It makes my hair so crunchy and brittle though. Am I not getting any benefit by using olive oil or argan and then using hydrolyzed protein conditioners? I appreciate your suggestion and perhaps I will give CO one final try.

Anje
April 3rd, 2017, 01:43 PM
A lot of people like pre-oiling their hair before shampooing. If you like the effect, definitely stick to it because it's supposed to be quite beneficial. (I never got into it, but my hair isn't porous and the only difference I'd ever notice was if I didn't manage to get the oil washed out. My hair really doesn't absorb oil, but it's useful as a surface coating to smooth it.)

Coconut oil is the one with the most research backing it, but I don't see any reason not to mess with oils a bit. Find one that gives you good effects.

Rebel Rebel
April 3rd, 2017, 01:51 PM
Thanks Anje. Yes I did it last night with olive oil and my hair is feeling amazing today. I think I'll definitely be doing this more frequently before I shampoo.

Reyesuela
April 4th, 2017, 07:42 AM
It makes my hair so crunchy and brittle though. Am I not getting any benefit by using olive oil or argan and then using hydrolyzed protein conditioners? I appreciate your suggestion and perhaps I will give CO one final try.

You're using too much. Notice that when you touch your hair, it gets soft again. It's "crunchy " because the oil hardens again. :) It doesn't actually make hair brittle!

All the surface oil should wash off in the tub.

meteor
April 4th, 2017, 09:09 AM
One doesn't necessarily need to use a lot of oil, even in a pre-poo treatment. In that study ("Effect of mineral oil, sunflower oil, and coconut oil on prevention of hair damage" - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12715094, http://dirtyorganics.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/blogposts/Effect%20of%20Mineral%20Oil,%20Sunflower%20Oil,%20 and%20Coconut%20Oil%20on%20%20Prevention%20of%20Ha ir%20Damage.pdf), each hair tress (25 cm long, 3 +/-0.5 gr each) was treated with only 0.2 ml of coconut oil, and the oil had positive effect, reducing protein loss and water retention index.

Oil post-wash can be helpful for managing porosity as well.
Here is another interesting study: The effects of lipid penetration and removal from subsurface microcavities and cracks at the human cuticle sheath - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19450411
"The presence of exogenous lipids in these cavities was found to be critical in maintaining the mechanical integrity of the cuticle cells. Regions presenting microcavities and cracks produced by reversible deformations were seen to fully recover and heal with the onset of a plasticization effect produced by the synergy of lipids and water. In contrast, microcavities produced by irreversible deformations were always filled with lipids. In both cases the lipids acted as weak adhesives, in particular, in those cavities and gaps opened in the cuticle cell interfaces."

sourgrl
April 4th, 2017, 09:25 AM
I have high porosity hair. I was using the pre-oil method until I found the ROO (rinse out oil) method. I get better moisture retention with ROO than with pre oiling. I utilize the ROO method during the winter when the air is dry and my hair needs more moisture. During the summer I'm strictly wash and go without any oiling method other than a little on damp hair to help detangle and seal in moisture from my wash. During the summer my high porosity hair (aka the sponge) gets plenty of moisture from the humidity so I don't need to do anything extra to help it out.

ETA: Porosity is all about moisture retention. With high porosity hair it's difficult to keep the moisture in the strands because of how the cuticles lie.


http://www.globalcoutureblog.net/2014/07/determine-right-products-hair-part-1-porosity.html

Rebel Rebel
April 4th, 2017, 12:28 PM
Thanks everyone and it looks I have a few new methods to try. I think this has been the missing piece to my regular routine. Appreciate all the science to back up the method too.

Anje
April 4th, 2017, 12:33 PM
It makes my hair so crunchy and brittle though. Am I not getting any benefit by using olive oil or argan and then using hydrolyzed protein conditioners? I appreciate your suggestion and perhaps I will give CO one final try.

FWIW, I have trouble with protein conditioners making my hair rough, dry, super-tangly, and stiffer than normal. There's a balancing act with protein, moisture, and oils, and sometimes it takes a while to figure out what works well for your hair. (And then its condition gradually changes and you have to adjust some more!) Luckily, adding moisture in forms like non-protein humectants can rapidly fix the over-proteined dryness. I like an SMT or even just a no-protein conditioner mixed with a squeeze of honey or syrup. Warm it up, apply it, put a plastic bag over it, and let it marinate for 30-40 minutes, then rinse thoroughly. The drips are sticky, but it shouldn't be once it's rinsed. For me, this results in supple, soft, floppy hair.

(Oh, If you end up with too-limp or stretchy hair, it's gotten pushed too far into the moisturized category, and protein will help balance it out. I personally haven't had that problem, but everyone's hair is different and lots of hair likes more protein than mine does.)

Rebel Rebel
April 4th, 2017, 12:41 PM
FWIW, I have trouble with protein conditioners making my hair rough, dry, super-tangly, and stiffer than normal. There's a balancing act with protein, moisture, and oils, and sometimes it takes a while to figure out what works well for your hair. (And then its condition gradually changes and you have to adjust some more!) Luckily, adding moisture in forms like non-protein humectants can rapidly fix the over-proteined dryness. I like an SMT or even just a no-protein conditioner mixed with a squeeze of honey or syrup. Warm it up, apply it, put a plastic bag over it, and let it marinate for 30-40 minutes, then rinse thoroughly. The drips are sticky, but it shouldn't be once it's rinsed. For me, this results in supple, soft, floppy hair.

(Oh, If you end up with too-limp or stretchy hair, it's gotten pushed too far into the moisturized category, and protein will help balance it out. I personally haven't had that problem, but everyone's hair is different and lots of hair likes more protein than mine does.)

Thanks that great advice and info. I think I know what you mean and I do alternate conditioners just in case. I haven't done an SMT in a while. Putting honey on the shopping list.

Reyesuela
April 4th, 2017, 03:22 PM
Oils do not effectively add or preserve moisture in hair. Unlike your skin, there is no internal water source to draw from and your hair dries pretty quickly to the same level as the surroundings pretty fast, even with oil on it. It's an emollient that smooths the hair and makes it more pliable, and some can add slip (reducing combing damage) or prevents protein loss (coconut oil only). The humectants can't do anything but cause your hair to dry slightly faster. It's the emollient properties only that make it feel less dry (but do not actually increase water content).

Anje
April 4th, 2017, 03:34 PM
Oils do not effectively add or preserve moisture in hair. Unlike your skin, there is no internal water source to draw from and your hair dries pretty quickly to the same level as the surroundings pretty fast, even with oil on it. It's an emollient that smooths the hair and makes it more pliable, and some can add slip (reducing combing damage) or prevents protein loss (coconut oil only). The humectants can't do anything but cause your hair to dry slightly faster. It's the emollient properties only that make it feel less dry (but do not actually increase water content).
Why do you say that moisturizing hair with humectants will make hair dry faster, given that the humectants are rinsed away at the end of the treatment? Surely increasing the moisture in hair increases the moisture in the hair, rather than promotes dryness.

Reyesuela
April 4th, 2017, 08:08 PM
If the humectants are applied to wet hair and then rinsed away, it could temporarily increase the moisture content of hair...but you don't actually want that in such a case. Too much water inside of hair makes it swell and damages the cuticle. Really saturating the hair is quite bad for it. And it doesn't make the hair better later. Perceived hair improvements are most likely due to emollients that remain on the hair.

dansyl
April 4th, 2017, 09:38 PM
I love oiling my hair before shampooing, but my hair hates it if I leave it on too long. I can only leave it on for 2 hours or so. Any longer and my hair ends up really dry. My hair is also weird so.... lol