New member, need your input on my current hair routine

[SeRe]

Hi All, I am a new member and this is my first post.

Here is my current hair routine and I would be so happy if you reviewed and gave your input on what I could change / improve upon.

My hair - i/ii in thickness, 1c (used to be 2a but henna along with my hair length made it 1c), 32 inches (down to my waist), black in color and red in the sun due to henna

Routine-
Oil (castor mixed with coconut/ayurvedic oils) scalp 3 times a week, coat whole length with coconut oil, leave overnight.
Wash next day with shampoo containing sulphates to wash off oil (Tresseme or Loreal or Herbal Essences)
Black tea / ACV rinse once a week
No conditioner, since conditioner causes more of my hair to fall out
Air dry, use John Freida frizz ease serum
Henna once in 2 months, whole head

Styles-
At work/outside - Leave open, use a tiny clip on crown
At home - Bun

Other care-
Healthy diet, take a multi vitamin daily

I use oil regularly because I feel I may have thinning hair (although no one who sees me or meets me thinks so). The oil does not get washed out unless I use a strong shampoo.

I would be so grateful for any input you could provide:
1. How do you manage long hair at night while sleeping? Buns or braids make irregular waves and curls in my hair that do not look good on me
2. How do you wear your hair to work?
3. What do you mix in your henna? I made mine with black tea
4. Is your hair all one length? I used to have layers but they looked bad because of my hair volume, so I am trying to grow them out. I should be at full hair length in 4 months
5. Any suggestions to change my current routine?
6. Any shampoo or wash suggestions that can remove castor oil?

Sorry for the long post. Thank you all so much in advance.

[Ophidian]

1. What about things like this? http://www.wikihow.com/Straighten-Your-Hair-Overnight
(I think hair wrapping under a scarf might be the most hair friendly, but it would be worth experimenting to see what works best)

2. Mine is not quite APL so I do either double french braids crossed in the back, woven under the other braid, and secured with a spin pin, or a twist/folded bun thing secured with a claw clip or hair stick. Yours is longer so others will probably be more helpful here.

3. "

4. I have what I like to call natural layers. Translation: I grew out a pixie with no trimming.

5. Is it working for you? If it isn't broken then no need to fix it. If it isn't working for you, tell us how it isn't working and you won't be short of suggestions :)

6. If your shampoo isn't cutting it, try CO-washing (and then shampooing your scalp afterwards if your scalp doesn't like conditioner). I find that it's way easier to get castor oil out if it's diluted in a lighter oil.

[SeRe]

1. What about things like this? http://www.wikihow.com/Straighten-Your-Hair-Overnight
(I think hair wrapping under a scarf might be the most hair friendly, but it would be worth experimenting to see what works best)

2. Mine is not quite APL so I do either double french braids crossed in the back, woven under the other braid, and secured with a spin pin, or a twist/folded bun thing secured with a claw clip or hair stick. Yours is longer so others will probably be more helpful here.

3. "

4. I have what I like to call natural layers. Translation: I grew out a pixie with no trimming.

5. Is it working for you? If it isn't broken then no need to fix it. If it isn't working for you, tell us how it isn't working and you won't be short of suggestions :)

6. If your shampoo isn't cutting it, try CO-washing (and then shampooing your scalp afterwards if your scalp doesn't like conditioner). I find that it's way easier to get castor oil out if it's diluted in a lighter oil.

Thank you for your response :-)

1. The wiki link is helpful, and I actually put 3 hair elastics through the length of my hair at night to keep it somewhat its original shape.

4. Could you tell me how long it took you to grow out your pixie cut?

5. I do want suggestions on a leave in serum to replace John Freida's Frizz Ease. I'm thinking of trying It's a 10, but I don't know if it controls frizz. It has stellar reviews though.

6. I've read in a few places and been warned by trichologist that using conditioner on the scalp can accelerate balding (MPB). I don't know if it is true (it's probably not because all the ladies here have amazing hair and CO wash) but I've noticed that conditioner causes more hair to fall out, and it gets greasy quickly too. That's why i stopped using conditioner, it has been 3 years now.

[Tosca]

Hi All, I am a new member and this is my first post.

Here is my current hair routine and I would be so happy if you reviewed and gave your input on what I could change / improve upon.

My hair - i/ii in thickness, 1c (used to be 2a but henna along with my hair length made it 1c), 32 inches (down to my waist), black in color and red in the sun due to henna

Routine-
Oil (castor mixed with coconut/ayurvedic oils) scalp 3 times a week, coat whole length with coconut oil, leave overnight.
Wash next day with shampoo containing sulphates to wash off oil (Tresseme or Loreal or Herbal Essences)
Black tea / ACV rinse once a week
No conditioner, since conditioner causes more of my hair to fall out
Air dry, use John Freida frizz ease serum
Henna once in 2 months, whole head

Styles-
At work/outside - Leave open, use a tiny clip on crown
At home - Bun

Other care-
Healthy diet, take a multi vitamin daily

I use oil regularly because I feel I may have thinning hair (although no one who sees me or meets me thinks so). The oil does not get washed out unless I use a strong shampoo.

I would be so grateful for any input you could provide:
1. How do you manage long hair at night while sleeping? Buns or braids make irregular waves and curls in my hair that do not look good on me
2. How do you wear your hair to work?
3. What do you mix in your henna? I made mine with black tea
4. Is your hair all one length? I used to have layers but they looked bad because of my hair volume, so I am trying to grow them out. I should be at full hair length in 4 months
5. Any suggestions to change my current routine?
6. Any shampoo or wash suggestions that can remove castor oil?

Sorry for the long post. Thank you all so much in advance.

1. I leave my hair loose and flipped over the top of my pillow

2. Almost always in a bun, very occasionally in a coronet braid (like Yulia Tymoshenko)

3. I don't use henna

4. Theoretically it's all one length, but it does have pretty significant taper due to old sheds. I haven't cut layers in though.

5. Wear it up when you are out of the house.

6. I have not used castor oil myself, but I have heard conditioner is good at getting it out.

[Decoy24601]

I just wanted to add that you don't have to get conditioner anywhere near your scalp while using it. I apply mine from the ears down.

[SeRe]

1. I leave my hair loose and flipped over the top of my pillow

2. Almost always in a bun, very occasionally in a coronet braid (like Yulia Tymoshenko)

3. I don't use henna

4. Theoretically it's all one length, but it does have pretty significant taper due to old sheds. I haven't cut layers in though.

5. Wear it up when you are out of the house.

6. I have not used castor oil myself, but I have heard conditioner is good at getting it out.

Thank you for your response.

Doesn't your hair get in your face or get knotted when you leave it loose at night?

You are right, I think I should wear it up more often. I'm trying to find styles that I can wear up that I can do on my hair with its thickness.

[SeRe]

I just wanted to add that you don't have to get conditioner anywhere near your scalp while using it. I apply mine from the ears down.

Yes, I should probably consider doing that. Thank you. Which conditioner do you use?

BTW, you have beautiful hair! Do you use henna?

[Decoy24601]

Yes, I should probably consider doing that. Thank you. Which conditioner do you use?

BTW, you have beautiful hair! Do you use henna?

Right now I use Mane N Tail (original) and Nature's Gate (whatever kind, they're all pretty much the same I find), but YMMV (your mileage may vary).

And thank you :). I don't henna, this is my natural hair color.

[SeRe]

Right now I use Mane N Tail (original) and Nature's Gate (whatever kind, they're all pretty much the same I find), but YMMV (your mileage may vary).

And thank you :). I don't henna, this is my natural hair color.

Thank you. I'll look into the conditioners.

Very nice color. I read that naturally red hair is found in only a small percentage of the world's population.

[Katia_k]

1. I sleep with it loose, or sometimes stuffed up in a satin bonnet.
2. I usually wear buns or braids, though sometimes just down because I'm lazy. But usually some kind of stick-held bun.
3. I honestly just use water in my henna, with a few squirts of lemon, just enough to make the water taste a bit tart. I'm always scared of screwing it up and getting a different color/not having the dye take that I don't mess with it too much.
4. I have curly hair that looks...not good without layers. Also have some thinning at the bottom that may be from this rather sheddy year.
5. When I used castor oil, I've found I can get it out with just conditioner, but have also used a gentle clarifying shampoo with no sulfates. The brand I used was Kinky Curly Come Clean, which is technically marketed for curly hair, but is, IMO, a pretty decent daily clarifyer (by daily I mean once or twice a week BTW).
6. I agree with others above, and think you should maybe try the conditioner again, but just keeping it far from your scalp. If it still makes you shed, ditch it again, but hair does need to be moisturized, especially if you're using harsher shampoos. That's my second advice...if you can, try ditching the sulfates. If your hair doesn't like it, then bring them back, but if it doesn't need something that harsh, you'll be better off.

Good luck!

[Reyesuela]

Your scalp oil mixture is unlikely to do anything for thinning. Why not choose something with evidence behind it?

[Ophidian]

Thank you for your response :-)

1. The wiki link is helpful, and I actually put 3 hair elastics through the length of my hair at night to keep it somewhat its original shape.

4. Could you tell me how long it took you to grow out your pixie cut?

5. I do want suggestions on a leave in serum to replace John Freida's Frizz Ease. I'm thinking of trying It's a 10, but I don't know if it controls frizz. It has stellar reviews though.

6. I've read in a few places and been warned by trichologist that using conditioner on the scalp can accelerate balding (MPB). I don't know if it is true (it's probably not because all the ladies here have amazing hair and CO wash) but I've noticed that conditioner causes more hair to fall out, and it gets greasy quickly too. That's why i stopped using conditioner, it has been 3 years now.

I started almost exactly a year ago with a longish pixie and now the longest layers in the back are close to APL, shortest in front are about shoulder.

[SeRe]

1. I sleep with it loose, or sometimes stuffed up in a satin bonnet.
2. I usually wear buns or braids, though sometimes just down because I'm lazy. But usually some kind of stick-held bun.
3. I honestly just use water in my henna, with a few squirts of lemon, just enough to make the water taste a bit tart. I'm always scared of screwing it up and getting a different color/not having the dye take that I don't mess with it too much.
4. I have curly hair that looks...not good without layers. Also have some thinning at the bottom that may be from this rather sheddy year.
5. When I used castor oil, I've found I can get it out with just conditioner, but have also used a gentle clarifying shampoo with no sulfates. The brand I used was Kinky Curly Come Clean, which is technically marketed for curly hair, but is, IMO, a pretty decent daily clarifyer (by daily I mean once or twice a week BTW).
6. I agree with others above, and think you should maybe try the conditioner again, but just keeping it far from your scalp. If it still makes you shed, ditch it again, but hair does need to be moisturized, especially if you're using harsher shampoos. That's my second advice...if you can, try ditching the sulfates. If your hair doesn't like it, then bring them back, but if it doesn't need something that harsh, you'll be better off.

Good luck!

Thank you for your response. I will look into finding a good conditioner.

Thank you for the shampoo recommendation. I am looking for a sulphate free shampoo that can clarify, and will try to find this one in stores. Are you aware of other clarifying sulphate-free shampoos that can remove castor oil?

[SeRe]

Your scalp oil mixture is unlikely to do anything for thinning. Why not choose something with evidence behind it?

Thank you for your response. Do you have suggestions for thinning hair?

My scalp oil mixture has worked wonders. My hair part is no longer as wide as it used to me. I consulted another doctor recently who clearly said that I do not have thinning. I think castor oil / coconut oil really works!

[SeRe]

I started almost exactly a year ago with a longish pixie and now the longest layers in the back are close to APL, shortest in front are about shoulder.

That's really good growth in one year!

[lapushka]

Have you tried applying your conditioner from ears down only (I never let conditioner touch my scalp). That way you will be able to use it, and cut down on tangles (and mechanical wear and tear).

Also, some people can't tolerate oil (or conditioner) on the scalp, it makes them shed more than normal. Could you be one of these people?

I can't see anything quite so wrong about your routine!

[SeRe]

Have you tried applying your conditioner from ears down only (I never let conditioner touch my scalp). That way you will be able to use it, and cut down on tangles (and mechanical wear and tear).

Also, some people can't tolerate oil (or conditioner) on the scalp, it makes them shed more than normal. Could you be one of these people?

I can't see anything quite so wrong about your routine!

Thank you. My scalp loves all oils, I've tried so many in the past few years. As long as they are without mineral oil, I seem to do well.

The conditioner sometimes touches my scalp, maybe I need to be careful so that I only get it on the hair. Do you dilute it or use it straight?

[Ophidian]

Thank you for your response. I will look into finding a good conditioner.

Thank you for the shampoo recommendation. I am looking for a sulphate free shampoo that can clarify, and will try to find this one in stores. Are you aware of other clarifying sulphate-free shampoos that can remove castor oil?

Basic ingredients, not loaded with oils/butters/botanicals is a good place to start if you want a more clarifying SLS-free shampoo. If you are into reading labels, the detergents C 14-16 olefin sulfonate or sodium polystyrene sulfonate are pretty good and getting rid of product build-up (including oils). I have used Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle, which contains C 14-16 olefin sulfonate, as a clarifying shampoo and found it very effective. Source: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2016/07/shampoos-which-remove-product-build-up.html?m=1

[lapushka]

Thank you. My scalp loves all oils, I've tried so many in the past few years. As long as they are without mineral oil, I seem to do well.

The conditioner sometimes touches my scalp, maybe I need to be careful so that I only get it on the hair. Do you dilute it or use it straight?

I don't dilute conditioner, no. And I only use it on the lengths of my hair, even further down than earlength. :)

[SeRe]

Basic ingredients, not loaded with oils/butters/botanicals is a good place to start if you want a more clarifying SLS-free shampoo. If you are into reading labels, the detergents C 14-16 olefin sulfonate or sodium polystyrene sulfonate are pretty good and getting rid of product build-up (including oils). I have used Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle, which contains C 14-16 olefin sulfonate, as a clarifying shampoo and found it very effective. Source: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2016/07/shampoos-which-remove-product-build-up.html?m=1

Wow, this link is amazing, thank you!

I'm confused between which one to buy - Nature's gate herbal shampoo or Trader Joe's Tea Tree Oil shampoo. These are easily available where I live.

Have you used Trader Joe's Tea Tree Oil shampoo when you had oil in your hair? I could sure use some Tea Tree oil right now, I seemed to have developed dandruff, after almost 4-5 years!

Please also share your opinion on Nature's Gate if you have used their new formulation.

[SeRe]

I don't dilute conditioner, no. And I only use it on the lengths of my hair, even further down than earlength. :)

I should really try that! which conditioner do you use?

[Ophidian]

Wow, this link is amazing, thank you!

I'm confused between which one to buy - Nature's gate herbal shampoo or Trader Joe's Tea Tree Oil shampoo. These are easily available where I live.

Have you used Trader Joe's Tea Tree Oil shampoo when you had oil in your hair? I could sure use some Tea Tree oil right now, I seemed to have developed dandruff, after almost 4-5 years!

Please also share your opinion on Nature's Gate if you have used their new formulation.

Yes, I used the Trader Joe's Tea Tree shampoo to remove excess oil. I have not tried the Nature's Gate. A tea tree shampoo might be nice if you are having some dandruff. It's cheap too, always a plus.

[SeRe]

Yes, I used the Trader Joe's Tea Tree shampoo to remove excess oil. I have not tried the Nature's Gate. A tea tree shampoo might be nice if you are having some dandruff. It's cheap too, always a plus.

Thank you. Going to a TJ's today, hope they are not out of stock! :D

[Reyesuela]

Now that I'm feeling better, I can drag my lazy carcass out of bed and over to a computer where I can see your original questions and copy-paste them easily! :D

1. How do you manage long hair at night while sleeping? Buns or braids make irregular waves and curls in my hair that do not look good on me.
I wear my hair up all the time. If I don't, I'll spritz it with water to get the bun-waves out. Buns and braids used to cause a lot of breakage, but now I have a silk sleep cap and because for me sleeping is apparently an extreme sport, I also have a silk pillowcase as a backup. No more breakage in a bun. That said, I actually pull my evening bun fastener out right before I put my sleep cap on, and it lies loosely in the sleep cap. You can wear a loose sleep cap without a bun. The $3 Walmart one stays on my head reasonably well without giving me forehead creases. For more regular curls, do 4 buns, 2 high front-ish and 2 lower more back-ish, twist firmly and evenly and wrap the ends tight under the lock where it comes out of your hair (instead of on the outside) and that way the waves start higher and you don't get straggly ends.

2. How do you wear your hair to work?
In a bun, even though I work at home.

3. What do you mix in your henna? I made mine with black tea
I mix mine with....water. LOL. I'm so edgy!

4. Is your hair all one length? I used to have layers but they looked bad because of my hair volume, so I am trying to grow them out. I should be at full hair length in 4 months
Yes. Much easier for updos.

5. Any suggestions to change my current routine?
Choose a better mixture for your scalp and to address hair loss. There's no reason to stop using barrettes if they don't cause breakage, but evaluate--and ditch them if they do. Updos are more protective than wearing hair down, but styling is always a personal choice. Coating your hair with coconut oil before your wash is really smart. It will protect your hair from breakage. Sulphates is a personal choice. Conditioner isn't causing your hair to fall out, but it will keep hair from being caught in other hair and therefore will fall out while you're walking around rather than when you first style it. John Frieda Frizz Ease is a great slip agent and occlusive! Good choice. Your multivitamin--whatever. :) I recommend getting all calcium from diet, not pills, but that's for other reasons, and I avoid multis, personally. You aren't taking a Vitamin D3 pill. I recommend 5000UI daily, in line with the Vitamin D Council. Fish oil might--might--improve your hair, and it's good for your heart.

WHICH ayurvedic oils are you using? I don't like coconut oil on the scalp because it does cause blocked pores in many people and has no mechanism of action to increase hair growth or evidence to support it. Castor oil MIGHT be helpful, might not--there is no research on it, and the individual fatty acids are good for raising PGE2, which increases hair growth, but in its undigested form, it's a triglyceride, which probably can't do anything topically. Some ayurvedic herbs have the potential to be very good for hair growth (ashwagandha, for example), while others don't.

6. Any shampoo or wash suggestions that can remove castor oil?
Thin it out with Primrose oil and Vit. E, which are shown persuasively to increase hair growth. :)

[Reyesuela]

Thank you for your response. Do you have suggestions for thinning hair?

My scalp oil mixture has worked wonders. My hair part is no longer as wide as it used to me. I consulted another doctor recently who clearly said that I do not have thinning. I think castor oil / coconut oil really works!

The doctor may be an idiot. :) If your ponytail is smaller than it used to be, you have thinning. Women often lose 50% of their hair or more before the thinning is apparent, especially if your thinning, like mine, is more diffuse. My worst part ever looked like I-2 on a bad day: http://www.americanhairloss.org/women_hair_loss/degree_of_hair_loss.asp I had literally lost half my hair then, though. (I wasn't sure if it was half or a third until it began growing back and I could estimate better by adding fingers to my ponytail what it used to be!) Most women have lost far more than that by the time they see a doctor and get a diagnosis of female pattern baldness or diffuse thinning. If it's early stages, it will be invisible except by the circumference of your ponytail and the amount of hair you're shedding.

Like I said above, castor oil might be doing something, but there's no actual evidence behind it working topically on the scalp. Whether the ayurvedic oils are doing anything depends on what they are. The coconut oil is not. (It's GREAT on your hair length, though!!!!)

[SeRe]

The doctor may be an idiot. :) If your ponytail is smaller than it used to be, you have thinning. Women often lose 50% of their hair or more before the thinning is apparent, especially if your thinning, like mine, is more diffuse. My worst part ever looked like I-2 on a bad day: http://www.americanhairloss.org/women_hair_loss/degree_of_hair_loss.asp I had literally lost half my hair then, though. (I wasn't sure if it was half or a third until it began growing back and I could estimate better by adding fingers to my ponytail what it used to be!) Most women have lost far more than that by the time they see a doctor and get a diagnosis of female pattern baldness or diffuse thinning. If it's early stages, it will be invisible except by the circumference of your ponytail and the amount of hair you're shedding.

Like I said above, castor oil might be doing something, but there's no actual evidence behind it working topically on the scalp. Whether the ayurvedic oils are doing anything depends on what they are. The coconut oil is not. (It's GREAT on your hair length, though!!!!)

Thank you for your response.

I used to be an I3, now I am an I2. My ponytail is a bit thicker than it used to be when I was facing hair loss. When it was bad, I made it my mission to make my hair normal. I ensured my ferritin count increased to over 70, and I took 6000 IU Vit D a day till my deficiency was corrected. I also used to take Black Currant seed oil / Evening Primrose oil, and fish oil. I have since stopped, maybe I should restart, what to do you think?

Excess copper in the blood can cause hair loss, and must be combated by taking more Zinc. A friend of mine with a copper IUD lost a lot of her hair. I told her to take out the IUD and now she seems to be doing better.

The most dominant herbs in my ayurvedic hair oils are Hibiscus, Bhringraj, Amla, and Curry leaves.

Black tea rinses seem to help with MPB too, with anecdotal evidence only though.

[Decoy24601]

Thank you for your response.

I used to be an I3, now I am an I2. My ponytail is a bit thicker than it used to be when I was facing hair loss. When it was bad, I made it my mission to make my hair normal. I ensured my ferritin count increased to over 70, and I took 6000 IU Vit D a day till my deficiency was corrected. I also used to take Black Currant seed oil / Evening Primrose oil, and fish oil. I have since stopped, maybe I should restart, what to do you think?

Excess copper in the blood can cause hair loss, and must be combated by taking more Zinc. A friend of mine with a copper IUD lost a lot of her hair. I told her to take out the IUD and now she seems to be doing better.

The most dominant herbs in my ayurvedic hair oils are Hibiscus, Bhringraj, Amla, and Curry leaves.

Black tea rinses seem to help with MPB too, with anecdotal evidence only though.

I'm pretty sure the amount of copper in an IUD that could even enter your bloodstream is way way too low to cause any health issues, especially hairloss. I've had the copper IUD for over a year or so now and still have very thick hair. In fact, my thickness has increased from when I went off hormonal BC, but that was also very very stressful time in my life and I was malnourished for a lot of it, so those are factors that did lead to a massive hair shed for me.

[SeRe]

The doctor may be an idiot. :) If your ponytail is smaller than it used to be, you have thinning. Women often lose 50% of their hair or more before the thinning is apparent, especially if your thinning, like mine, is more diffuse. My worst part ever looked like I-2 on a bad day: http://www.americanhairloss.org/women_hair_loss/degree_of_hair_loss.asp I had literally lost half my hair then, though. (I wasn't sure if it was half or a third until it began growing back and I could estimate better by adding fingers to my ponytail what it used to be!) Most women have lost far more than that by the time they see a doctor and get a diagnosis of female pattern baldness or diffuse thinning. If it's early stages, it will be invisible except by the circumference of your ponytail and the amount of hair you're shedding.

Like I said above, castor oil might be doing something, but there's no actual evidence behind it working topically on the scalp. Whether the ayurvedic oils are doing anything depends on what they are. The coconut oil is not. (It's GREAT on your hair length, though!!!!)

Is there a non-oily scalp mixture that one could apply? I have heard of several options - rosewater, ginger infusion etc to increase blood circulation in the scalp.

I have been wanting to try pumpkin seed oil as I heard it is a DHT blocker. i haven't done enough research on it.

[SeRe]

I'm pretty sure the amount of copper in an IUD that could even enter your bloodstream is way way too low to cause any health issues, especially hairloss. I've had the copper IUD for over a year or so now and still have very thick hair. In fact, my thickness has increased from when I went off hormonal BC, but that was also very very stressful time in my life and I was malnourished for a lot of it, so those are factors that did lead to a massive hair shed for me.

Could it be possible that you ate a Zinc-rich diet? My friend put on weight and lost a lot of hair in the 1 year that she got a copper IUD.

My mother also had a copper IUD for a while but experienced no side effects. She is vegetarian and did not supplement with Zinc so I don't know how to explain it. The research I did pointed in direction of a Copper-Zinc imbalance but I may be wrong.

[Decoy24601]

Could it be possible that you ate a Zinc-rich diet? My friend put on weight and lost a lot of hair in the 1 year that she got a copper IUD.

My mother also had a copper IUD for a while but experienced no side effects. She is vegetarian and did not supplement with Zinc so I don't know how to explain it. The research I did pointed in direction of a Copper-Zinc imbalance but I may be wrong.

Nope. If anything I could use more zinc in my diet. One person putting on weight and losing hair does not prove a cause that it was the IUD. There could, and likely were, a lot of other variables that could explain both, and both might have separate causes.

I've also read that sometimes coming off hormonal birth control can trigger massive hair shedding in some.

[Reyesuela]

Thank you for your response.

I used to be an I3, now I am an I2. My ponytail is a bit thicker than it used to be when I was facing hair loss. When it was bad, I made it my mission to make my hair normal. I ensured my ferritin count increased to over 70, and I took 6000 IU Vit D a day till my deficiency was corrected. I also used to take Black Currant seed oil / Evening Primrose oil, and fish oil. I have since stopped, maybe I should restart, what to do you think?

Excess copper in the blood can cause hair loss, and must be combated by taking more Zinc. A friend of mine with a copper IUD lost a lot of her hair. I told her to take out the IUD and now she seems to be doing better.

The most dominant herbs in my ayurvedic hair oils are Hibiscus, Bhringraj, Amla, and Curry leaves.

Black tea rinses seem to help with MPB too, with anecdotal evidence only though.

The evening primrose oil and the fish oil might still help. If they helped before, you should still be taking them. Can't say for sure that they did, but it's quite possible.

You need to be taking 5000IU every day forever. You can't just "fix" your Vit. D and then stop taking it. You'll get deficient again! 5000IU is a dose at which adults will be in the healthy range if they take it daily.

A ferritin count above 75 is considered too high, and the evidence that ferritin affects hair is pretty controversial. The better-designed studies have mostly found a very weak link, if any. For the sake of your cardiovascular health, I would keep it under 75.

The caffeine in the black tea has been shown to grow hair. My confidence about this fact is high; my confidence about the correct dosage is NOT high! Lol.

The hibiscus has some data indicating increased hair growth. Amla should be good against androgenic alopecia--though there is only one study, the documentation of the mechanism of action is good. The curry leaves have no studies about them at all, but the linalool is what's thought to make lavender grow hair modestly. There's potential there. The bhringraj extract has positive effects in two studies, one with a petroleum ether extract and the other with a menthol extract. Given that menthol itself stimulates hair growth, I'd say "ehhhh" for the second, but the first looks like it may have effects on its own.

There are a lot of anecdotal reports of castor oil thickening hair, but the vast majority of these people were also using essential oils documented to grow hair along with it. So any evidence for the castor itself is really weak.

[Reyesuela]

Is there a non-oily scalp mixture that one could apply? I have heard of several options - rosewater, ginger infusion etc to increase blood circulation in the scalp.

I have been wanting to try pumpkin seed oil as I heard it is a DHT blocker. i haven't done enough research on it.

There isn't any evidence for it working topically. I'm not saying it doesn't. It hasn't been studied. Orally, I'd be a bit wary of DHT blockers unless you are not sexually active, on VERY good birth control, or are post-menopausal.

DO NOT USE GINGER!!! Ginger has a major oil that is a powerful growth inhibitor!

[SeRe]

There isn't any evidence for it working topically. I'm not saying it doesn't. It hasn't been studied. Orally, I'd be a bit wary of DHT blockers unless you are not sexually active, on VERY good birth control, or are post-menopausal.

DO NOT USE GINGER!!! Ginger has a major oil that is a powerful growth inhibitor!

Thank you for your response.

I do take Vit D, but not 5000 IU. The prenatal multi I take (I'm not pregnant nor trying) contains sufficient amounts of Iron too. I read that Ferritin should not be above 100, that hair loss stops at 60 and hair starts regrowing once you cross 70. Again, my research was done a year ago and I might be messing up the numbers a bit.

You are right about the caffeine, and even I'm confused about the dose. Too much can cause hair loss from what I have read. My grandmother says a good rinse contains the amount of caffeine that a tea bag infused in water for 1 minute would contain. She got this from her mom. I know this sounds like an old wive's tale :-)

I'm quite confident that the hair oil concoction is working. I used to have a hair part that was thinning to the extent that it looked like a Christmas tree pattern. Only regular oiling brought it to almost normal. At that time, I was clueless about supplements too.

Castor oil has a lot of anecdotal evidence and honestly, seems to be my only option, given that I am not willing to try Minoxidil or Spiro.

In my research last year, I came across a study that showed promising results for bhringraj. It seems to be, IMHO, the best herb for MPB.

Ginger - I have read that boiled ginger contains a compound that promotes growth while raw ginger contains a compound that inhibits growth. Again, I found a paper a few months ago when I was researching traditional Chinese medicine.

I've realized that MPB doesn't have to get worse. My grandfather's sister had thinning hair when she was young. She used oils and supposedly massaged her scalp, and only used soapnuts to wash her hair. Her hair never became thick, but did not become thin either. It remained as it is all her life. She must be over 80 now and has the same amount of hair that my grandmother has (who had thick hair until she was 60, after which it started thinning).

Could you share your regimen if you don't mind?

[SeRe]

There isn't any evidence for it working topically. I'm not saying it doesn't. It hasn't been studied. Orally, I'd be a bit wary of DHT blockers unless you are not sexually active, on VERY good birth control, or are post-menopausal.

DO NOT USE GINGER!!! Ginger has a major oil that is a powerful growth inhibitor!

I will definitely restart the 5000 IU, thank you for the guidance. I may not be getting enough Vit D since I stay out of the sun (for preventing more freckles!)

[SeRe]

Nope. If anything I could use more zinc in my diet. One person putting on weight and losing hair does not prove a cause that it was the IUD. There could, and likely were, a lot of other variables that could explain both, and both might have separate causes.

I've also read that sometimes coming off hormonal birth control can trigger massive hair shedding in some.

That is true. I believe in this Cu-Zn theory because I read a paper about this. Also, I noticed that my facial hair grows more slowly when I take Zn. A few people have reported clear skin after supplementing Zn. According to my research, Zn essentially balances hormones that are out of whack because of excessive Cu in the body.

[Reyesuela]

Thank you for your response.

I do take Vit D, but not 5000 IU. The prenatal multi I take (I'm not pregnant nor trying) contains sufficient amounts of Iron too. I read that Ferritin should not be above 100, that hair loss stops at 60 and hair starts regrowing once you cross 70. Again, my research was done a year ago and I might be messing up the numbers a bit.

You are right about the caffeine, and even I'm confused about the dose. Too much can cause hair loss from what I have read. My grandmother says a good rinse contains the amount of caffeine that a tea bag infused in water for 1 minute would contain. She got this from her mom. I know this sounds like an old wive's tale :-)

I'm quite confident that the hair oil concoction is working. I used to have a hair part that was thinning to the extent that it looked like a Christmas tree pattern. Only regular oiling brought it to almost normal. At that time, I was clueless about supplements too.

Castor oil has a lot of anecdotal evidence and honestly, seems to be my only option, given that I am not willing to try Minoxidil or Spiro.

In my research last year, I came across a study that showed promising results for bhringraj. It seems to be, IMHO, the best herb for MPB.

Ginger - I have read that boiled ginger contains a compound that promotes growth while raw ginger contains a compound that inhibits growth. Again, I found a paper a few months ago when I was researching traditional Chinese medicine.

I've realized that MPB doesn't have to get worse. My grandfather's sister had thinning hair when she was young. She used oils and supposedly massaged her scalp, and only used soapnuts to wash her hair. Her hair never became thick, but did not become thin either. It remained as it is all her life. She must be over 80 now and has the same amount of hair that my grandmother has (who had thick hair until she was 60, after which it started thinning).

Could you share your regimen if you don't mind?

I just posted it on my thread on my signature line because someone else asked!!!

Why aren't you willing to do minoxidil? Honestly, the botanicals are just unregulated drugs with uncertain concentrations. I use them, too, but that doesn't mean I don't know full well the dangers. :) Spiro, I understand totally and agree with, but if you don't want spiro, you shouldn't be doing oral pumpkin seed oil, either! I don't do either and won't until menopause or I'm sterilized. :D

I'd put several topicals above bhringraj just because they have more studies.

Above 100 is super dangerous for ferritin. Only one study shows that getting a high ferritin level (above 70) is good for hair. Several that have studied hair growth in women with thinning hair and ferritin levels below 10--yes, 10--found no help from raising ferritin levels at all. I think there may be a connection, but the evidence is weaker on ferritin than a ton of other things, and I'm not willing to risk it. I take no multis with ferritin or calcium. I like my beautiful, atherosclerosis-free blood vessels just as they are!

[Reyesuela]

That is true. I believe in this Cu-Zn theory because I read a paper about this. Also, I noticed that my facial hair grows more slowly when I take Zn. A few people have reported clear skin after supplementing Zn. According to my research, Zn essentially balances hormones that are out of whack because of excessive Cu in the body.

Zinc has some decent evidence behind it being associated with hair loss, but a copper IUD has no evidence behind it elevating copper levels. :)

[lapushka]

I should really try that! which conditioner do you use?

I do WCC, so I condition twice.

Typically my favorite, HG, 2nd conditioner is the Herbal Essences Hello Hydration. For a 1st conditioner, I use whatever. Right now though, I am using up all sorts of conditioners, so it varies. I have a Pantene one now as my first C.

[SeRe]

I just posted it on my thread on my signature line because someone else asked!!!

Why aren't you willing to do minoxidil? Honestly, the botanicals are just unregulated drugs with uncertain concentrations. I use them, too, but that doesn't mean I don't know full well the dangers. :) Spiro, I understand totally and agree with, but if you don't want spiro, you shouldn't be doing oral pumpkin seed oil, either! I don't do either and won't until menopause or I'm sterilized. :D

I'd put several topicals above bhringraj just because they have more studies.

Above 100 is super dangerous for ferritin. Only one study shows that getting a high ferritin level (above 70) is good for hair. Several that have studied hair growth in women with thinning hair and ferritin levels below 10--yes, 10--found no help from raising ferritin levels at all. I think there may be a connection, but the evidence is weaker on ferritin than a ton of other things, and I'm not willing to risk it. I take no multis with ferritin or calcium. I like my beautiful, atherosclerosis-free blood vessels just as they are!

Thank you for your response. I went through your thread and it's very well written and researched. Thank you so much for the hard work and we all appreciate your intent to educate and help women dealing with MBP.

I was prescribed Minoxidil 9 years ago by a doctor but I experienced side effects within a day of starting it (difficulty breathing and fast heart beat) and discontinued use after the doctor told me to. I am now 27 years old and yes, Spiro is not an option for me since I have yet to get married and start a family.

Honestly, the oil mixture was working really well for me. Last year, I experienced intense emotional pain that lasted a few months and may have resulted in some thinning because of the difficult time and stress that I underwent. I hope my hair comes back to its original form soon. it's not thick and I suppose i cannot dream to have very thick hair, but I'm happy as long as it fully covers my scalp and doesn't look obvious.

[SeRe]

I do WCC, so I condition twice.

Typically my favorite, HG, 2nd conditioner is the Herbal Essences Hello Hydration. For a 1st conditioner, I use whatever. Right now though, I am using up all sorts of conditioners, so it varies. I have a Pantene one now as my first C.

Thank you for sharing. :-)

[Reyesuela]

You could give the foam a try. It is less likely to go systemic.

ORAL capsaicin blocks stress related hair loss through blocking the cannabinoid receptor 2. Don't put cayenne on your head, though. That will make your hair fall out through action on the villanoid receptor.

[SeRe]

You could give the foam a try. It is less likely to go systemic.

ORAL capsaicin blocks stress related hair loss through blocking the cannabinoid receptor 2. Don't put cayenne on your head, though. That will make your hair fall out through action on the villanoid receptor.

Thank you for your response. I tried the 2% aerosol, and I'm not sure if that is the foam. I was in a different country at that time and I cannot remember the exact name.

I have read that a few people have managed to apply cayenne pepper powder on their scalp to stimulate blood circulation. I would not try it because it sounds painful. I don't know what the villanoid receptor is.

If the aerosol is the same as the foam, it means minoxidil is not an option. I suppose I am left with just the oils then.

[Reyesuela]

It's the same. Did you try 5% or 2%?

[SeRe]

It's the same. Did you try 5% or 2%?

I tried the 2%. My doctor said 5% was not recommended for women (this was 8 years ago). But my cousin (male) was given the 5% recently.

[Reyesuela]

Well, it's totally out for you, then! Lol. Oh, well. When it does work, it works so well.

[SeRe]

Well, it's totally out for you, then! Lol. Oh, well. When it does work, it works so well.

What could I change in my routine then, for my thinning? Based on your responses and your other thread, I was thinking:

1. Continue with oils every other day
2. Add peppermint and rosemary EO to my ayurvedic mix
3. Use a conditioner (I bought Nature's gate, will try tonight)
4. Continue taking Vit D, fish oil, EPO
5. Regulate ferritin level
6. Continue black tea rinses

Please help me. It's next to impossible to come across someone who knows as much as you so. I bet even my previous derm did not know half as much as you.

Also, are you a doctor or have you studied a pure science? You are amazing!

My photo in my signature below should tell you my current hair state, i took it yesterday.

[Reyesuela]

I would ditch the coconut oil and substitute Vit E and evening primrose in your oil mix.

I would also do a water mix with water-soluble actives. You can use a lot more without your scalp freaking out. In fact, some of your current actives may not work so well in oil. I have to check.

Your length looks a lot better than mine! I lost an absurd amount.

[Reyesuela]

Btw, I have no layers. That much of my hair fell out!

[SeRe]

I would ditch the coconut oil and substitute Vit E and evening primrose in your oil mix.

I would also do a water mix with water-soluble actives. You can use a lot more without your scalp freaking out. In fact, some of your current actives may not work so well in oil. I have to check.

Your length looks a lot better than mine! I lost an absurd amount.

Thank you. What sort of water actives? The only thing I can think of is rose water. Please advise.

I will make the changes you recommended to my oil mix.

I made the mistake of cutting my hair in layers and now I am regretting it. Luckily, my hair grows very fast so I hope to make it all one length in the next few months. My biggest issue right now is hair density, I wish I had more hair on my head.

I have noticed minimal miniaturized hair falling out the last year. Maybe that is a good sign?

[SeRe]

Btw, I have no layers. That much of my hair fell out!

But your hair seems thick at the scalp, and I think that really matters. Also, you are atleast a decade older than I am and still seem to have such nice hair (despite dealing with thinning) and skin! Lots to learn from you!

[Reyesuela]

But your hair seems thick at the scalp, and I think that really matters. Also, you are atleast a decade older than I am and still seem to have such nice hair (despite dealing with thinning) and skin! Lots to learn from you!

It is now! Thank goodness.

So basically most things are either water/propylene glycol/ethanol soluble or oil soluble, rarely both. All your oils definitely belong together. I'd add azeliac acid in water for sure, for it's effects on DHT, and probably green tea EGCg--both are nicely cheap. I think the azeliac acid is water soluble. I know the green tea extract is. Phosphatidylcholine 2% is probably a top choice too. :). Sodium EDTA at .2% should be added to any water mix without enough ethanol, or it should be kept in the fridge.

I'd add Hinoki cypress EO to your oils. It acts on VEGF, which very few things do.

[SeRe]

It is now! Thank goodness.

So basically most things are either water/propylene glycol/ethanol soluble or oil soluble, rarely both. All your oils definitely belong together. I'd add azeliac acid in water for sure, for it's effects on DHT, and probably green tea EGCg--both are nicely cheap. I think the azeliac acid is water soluble. I know the green tea extract is. Phosphatidylcholine 2% is probably a top choice too. :). Sodium EDTA at .2% should be added to any water mix without enough ethanol, or it should be kept in the fridge.

I'd add Hinoki cypress EO to your oils. It acts on VEGF, which very few things do.

Thank you for your response. I have sent you a PM with very specific details on my ayurvedic oil mix. I will follow up on this thread with a few questions on the water soluble actives once I have had a chance to fully digest and assess your inputs.

[Reyesuela]

Got it! :)