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ghanima
February 15th, 2017, 01:40 PM
I have 3A curly hair, a bit past shoulder length. I can only easily detangle them wet with conditioner on, problem is I wash them only once a week and I would like to detangle them more often than that, ideally I would like to finger comb them as a before bedtime routine, before spraying them lightly with water+vinegar, which moisturizes them (they tend to be very dry, like all curly hair) and renews the curls. What do you suggest? I was thinking of trying a detangler, but I don't know if that would interfere with the water spraying - maybe the hair would not absorb the water as well. The evening water-spraying has made a huge difference so far with the dryness, so I don't want that moisturizing factor to weaken.

lapushka
February 15th, 2017, 01:52 PM
If your hair is dry to very dry, I would avoid spraying it with a water/vinegar solution (something that is left on for a long time). Vinegar as a rinse at wash time, fine, but I fear that it might dry out the ends when you spray it just like that (IDK why).

ghanima
February 15th, 2017, 02:05 PM
It's mainly water, the amount of vinegar is really small. It makes them really soft and shiny, and for some reason the vinegar helps the curls form very nicely. I spray also my face, have done that for years, and while the vinegar has an astringent effect, it's not drying to the skin. At least this is my experience.

likelikepenny
February 15th, 2017, 02:09 PM
Hi, I'm a curly as well :grin:, for detangling purposes, I used to add some of my conditioner, either regular or leave in, to my spray bottle. It helps detangle and also leaves your hair moisturized and shiny, maybe that could help?

ETA: I use ACV for my face and hair as well, but over time I find it to be astringent on my hair, which is why I only use it as a shampoo.

ghanima
February 15th, 2017, 02:24 PM
Thanks I'll try that. I'll also experimenting with spraying only water at this point, and leave the vinegar only to wash days. Let's see. Are you able to detangle your hair after spraying the water+conditioner?

lapushka
February 15th, 2017, 02:25 PM
It's mainly water, the amount of vinegar is really small. It makes them really soft and shiny, and for some reason the vinegar helps the curls form very nicely. I spray also my face, have done that for years, and while the vinegar has an astringent effect, it's not drying to the skin. At least this is my experience.

I would use water with a tiny bit of conditioner/oil squirted in the bottle instead of the vinegar. That's just me. I would give it a try, see if it improves things. :flower:

Tosca
February 15th, 2017, 02:33 PM
If I remember correctly, water plus glycerine makes a good spray. I don't use sprays on my hair, so maybe someone with more knowledge can elaborate?

meteor
February 15th, 2017, 02:36 PM
Another vote for water + conditioner. Or maybe water + conditioner + oil/serum for extra slip.
And if you currently avoid silicones, you might want to try adding silicones in the detangling step to see if it helps.
The detangling tools you use are also very important. I'd make sure the wide-tooth combs are seamless and the teeth are long and spaced far apart. Tangle Teezers are also popular among some folks who run into detangling problems, and might be worth a try.

ghanima
February 15th, 2017, 02:38 PM
Yes, I will definitely try that. And see if I can detangle after.
Do you think the detangler (or adding glycerine) could also be an option? or would it coat the hair and not let them moisturize?
regarding silicones, I am afraid they wouldn't let the water penetrate the hair shaft either.

meteor
February 15th, 2017, 03:20 PM
regarding silicones, I am afraid they wouldn't let the water penetrate the hair shaft either.

Silicones are not *that* occlusive, otherwise hair wouldn't even get wet. Both oils and silicones provide a very permeable barrier, certainly not enough to completely seal water out. Hair has a very large surface area, esp. if it's thick and/or long, and it would take really huge amounts of silicones/oils to even coat it fully, and even then it wouldn't lock water out fully. The amounts of silicones that I'd recommend using for detangling should be just enough to add slip but not enough to create build-up issues. Placement matters too, I'd just try putting silicones where the tangles are the worst (e.g ends or nape or sides or wherever you may be experiencing problems currently).

pailin
February 15th, 2017, 05:50 PM
I don't use glycerin in water for detangling; but I do use it occasionally afterwards if I want to revive my waves and defrizz. Sort of as a last step. I prefer to detangle dry, then spritz if necessary. But I'm only wavy, not curly.
Basically I find glycerin in water fantastic for moisturizing and making my hair feel soft (after it dries- it's actually sticky when wet) but not useful for slip, which is why I only use it after detangling.

likelikepenny
February 15th, 2017, 06:13 PM
Using conditioner in a spray bottle with water, allows me to detangle pretty well. According to the amount of slip you need, adjust your ratios.

I would spray my detnagler mixture on my hair and add an oil to detangle, it worked pretty well for me.

I don't recommend using a wide tooth comb or tangle teaser unless you're in the shower, I find it's too much manipulation for my curly hair, but YMMV

ghanima
February 16th, 2017, 12:27 AM
Yesterday evening I sprayed water+leave-in and I finger combed. I managed but it didn't give me that much slip, I figure that when when my hair grows it could become problematic at some point. For now I think it may work. The hair look ok, given that they're not freshly shampooed, they can improve a lot imo if I can find a way to give it consistently more moisture. It feels drier to the touch than the other days with ACV, go figure.
Here's a pic, later I may be able to upload a better one:

https://s23.postimg.org/qxuk1voff/hair_do_160217.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/o3reofm93/)image gratuite Ó tÚlÚcharger (https://postimage.org/index.php?lang=french)

H o n є y ❤
February 16th, 2017, 01:18 AM
Yesterday evening I sprayed water+leave-in and I finger combed. I managed but it didn't give me that much slip, I figure that when when my hair grows it could become problematic at some point. For now I think it may work. The hair look ok, given that they're not freshly shampooed, they can improve a lot imo if I can find a way to give it consistently more moisture. It feels drier to the touch than the other days with ACV, go figure.
Here's a pic, later I may be able to upload a better one:

https://s23.postimg.org/qxuk1voff/hair_do_160217.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/o3reofm93/)image gratuite Ó tÚlÚcharger (https://postimage.org/index.php?lang=french)
Your hair is gorgeous!

ghanima
February 16th, 2017, 03:36 AM
Thank you! It has potential but here it looks a little too messy imo. I hope for improvements now that I'm back to being more deliberate about it.

likelikepenny
February 16th, 2017, 04:33 AM
Yesterday evening I sprayed water+leave-in and I finger combed. I managed but it didn't give me that much slip, I figure that when when my hair grows it could become problematic at some point. For now I think it may work. The hair look ok, given that they're not freshly shampooed, they can improve a lot imo if I can find a way to give it consistently more moisture. It feels drier to the touch than the other days with ACV, go figure.
Here's a pic, later I may be able to upload a better one:

https://s23.postimg.org/qxuk1voff/hair_do_160217.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/o3reofm93/)image gratuite Ó tÚlÚcharger (https://postimage.org/index.php?lang=french)

Does the conditioner you use have lots of slip? That can make a difference.

Simsy
February 16th, 2017, 05:00 AM
Yesterday evening I sprayed water+leave-in and I finger combed. I managed but it didn't give me that much slip, I figure that when when my hair grows it could become problematic at some point. For now I think it may work. The hair look ok, given that they're not freshly shampooed, they can improve a lot imo if I can find a way to give it consistently more moisture. It feels drier to the touch than the other days with ACV, go figure.
Here's a pic, later I may be able to upload a better one

As a suggestion, I found a detangling spray very useful for getting the worst tangles out and helping with extra moisture. I use the Garnier version but I think there are a few out there. Also adding oil once I had finished detangling makes a world of difference once my hair drys and settles.

ghanima
February 16th, 2017, 05:32 AM
Does the conditioner you use have lots of slip? That can make a difference.

I used Garnier Ultra Doux Leave-in (the type with oil of avocado and karite butter), no I don't think it has much slip, it's also cone-free. I think a few hours in, my hair don't look as good as the previous days, sigh... don't know if it's the detangling I did last evening, the leave-in in place of the vinegar, or that they're getting ready for wash day.

ghanima
February 16th, 2017, 05:36 AM
As a suggestion, I found a detangling spray very useful for getting the worst tangles out and helping with extra moisture. I use the Garnier version but I think there are a few out there. Also adding oil once I had finished detangling makes a world of difference once my hair drys and settles.

Something like this (https://www.amazon.fr/Garnier-Fructis-demelant-fortifiant-Cheveux/dp/B00L15ED0G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487248409&sr=8-1&keywords=garnier+demelant)?

ETA: Simsy, I see you're hip length with a texture similar to mine, do you manage to detangle between washes just with the detangler you mentioned, with that length? have you shared your routine somewhere?

lapushka
February 16th, 2017, 05:56 AM
Yesterday evening I sprayed water+leave-in and I finger combed. I managed but it didn't give me that much slip, I figure that when when my hair grows it could become problematic at some point. For now I think it may work. The hair look ok, given that they're not freshly shampooed, they can improve a lot imo if I can find a way to give it consistently more moisture. It feels drier to the touch than the other days with ACV, go figure.
Here's a pic, later I may be able to upload a better one:

https://s23.postimg.org/qxuk1voff/hair_do_160217.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/o3reofm93/)image gratuite Ó tÚlÚcharger (https://postimage.org/index.php?lang=french)

It looks very pretty, but it looks to me like you need a bit more moisture. :flower: Try looking for conditioners and masks for dry, damaged hair = those are *the* most moisturizing on the market, if you can't get the curly products on the market (they're expensive too). It's a good alternative!

Try putting more conditioner in the spray bottle. Typically use your most runny conditioner for this (or the nozzle will get clogged). And maybe enhance the amount of conditioner you put in there.

Also try looking into the "curly girl" method. That might help hugely!

ghanima
February 16th, 2017, 06:13 AM
Thank you for the suggestions Lapushka, I definitely agree that they need a lot more moisturizing. I have done some reading in the forum these days and have a few things I wanna try, some coming from your posts btw.

lapushka
February 16th, 2017, 07:12 AM
Thank you for the suggestions Lapushka, I definitely agree that they need a lot more moisturizing. I have done some reading in the forum these days and have a few things I wanna try, some coming from your posts btw.

If I can help in any way, let me know! :thumbsup:

Flipgirl24
February 16th, 2017, 08:00 AM
What about a spray on leave in conditioner? Joico makes a good one. Infusion 23 is also good.

ghanima
February 16th, 2017, 12:08 PM
Thanks I will look into that.

likelikepenny
February 16th, 2017, 03:36 PM
I find tresseme perfectly undone to be great for my curls plus it's cone free.

I'd suggest also looking in Lapushka's signature and reading about the WCC , ROO, and LOC methods. Since I've been doing those, my hair doesn't get nearly as dry as it used to.

lapushka
February 16th, 2017, 03:52 PM
I find tresseme perfectly undone to be great for my curls plus it's cone free.

I'd suggest also looking in Lapushka's signature and reading about the WCC , ROO, and LOC methods. Since I've been doing those, my hair doesn't get nearly as dry as it used to.

Aw that's so nice to hear. I'm glad it works for you!!! :D

Dark40
February 16th, 2017, 04:32 PM
I would use a mixture of water + conditioner + oil for detangling. It always work my hair wonders with the easy slip and detangling. Even though I don't ever have any detangling problems. But it always gives my hair a nice shine. Especially, on the ends.

likelikepenny
February 16th, 2017, 04:56 PM
Aw that's so nice to hear. I'm glad it works for you!!! :D

Sorry to hijack, but I find it comical because I knew about the methods, but never thought to put them all together until seeing your signature. I was/am part of the natural community so I had heard of LOC and ROO but could never get it to work lol. Thank you Lapushka :).

ghanima
February 17th, 2017, 01:48 AM
Tresseme and Infusium 23 aren't retailed in France, unfortunately, while Joico is, @Flipgirl24 I guess you'd suggest the conditioner from the 'Moisture Recovery' line?

@Dark40
did you mean to mix water+conditioner+oil in a spray or that I could just rinse my hair in the shower, condition or deep condition(from ears down) and detangle? that's what another poster with textured hair said she does in another thread, and I was wondering yesterday, as my hair were soaking wet anyway after all the spraying, if it wouldn't be just simpler to do that.

@likelikepenny
I always keep heads up for Lapushka's posts... I'll need to take it slowly so I can understand what works and what doesn't for me, and I am almost starting from square 1, as so far I have been quite random in my choices, I just went for the most natural products in the supermarket without much thinking. I have a long list of things I wanna try, and I am yet to understand the very basics of my hair. I thought that my problems with detangling were due to the texture, but I am relieved to find out that it's very possible to have hair even more textured than mine and detangle them easily, the trick is do it every day and moisturize a lot.

Later I will post a picture of this morning, if I can, and report on what I did before bedtime.

Thank you so so much for the advice, you guys are great!!!!

Simsy
February 17th, 2017, 03:35 AM
Something like this (https://www.amazon.fr/Garnier-Fructis-demelant-fortifiant-Cheveux/dp/B00L15ED0G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487248409&sr=8-1&keywords=garnier+demelant)?

ETA: Simsy, I see you're hip length with a texture similar to mine, do you manage to detangle between washes just with the detangler you mentioned, with that length? have you shared your routine somewhere?

That looks to be the stuff. As for routine, I keep mine really basic. Coney conditioner and moisturiser shampoo, currently using Tresemme for the brand
http://https://www.amcal.com.au/tresemme-moisture-rich-shampoo---900ml-p-9310158112007?cm_mmc=GooglePLA-_-NA-_-TRESemme-_-9310158112007&mkwid=sWZ9AwvcJ_dt&pcrid=65807436998&pkw=&pmt=&plid=&product=P_9310158112007&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=Amcal-ROI-2017, usually just a straight WC, but I do sometimes do a second condition if my hair feels like it needs it. I wrap it in a cotton cloth to get the worst of the water out then detangle with my fingers and the detangling mixture while it's still wet but not dripping.

I generally let it mostly dry before I oil and either bun or braid once it is completey dry. Once it's in a particular style, it stays there for a couple of days before being pulled down, detangled with a tangle teaser, oiled again and put back up.

My hair doesn't tangle much in English braids, so I can get away with not handling it much; providing I don't leave it loose. I find the worst detangling session to be right after a wash and that is rarely much hassle if I get to it before the tangles have a change to dry in place. If I let it dry without detangling, it is an absolute nightmare, even with the leave-in and a tangle teaser.

Hope this helps.

lapushka
February 17th, 2017, 04:03 AM
Sorry to hijack, but I find it comical because I knew about the methods, but never thought to put them all together until seeing your signature. I was/am part of the natural community so I had heard of LOC and ROO but could never get it to work lol. Thank you Lapushka :).

Yes, LOC comes straight out of the natural community, and ROO as well, for 1 and 2, and maybe still 3 hair (depends on how tight the curl is) it needs some adaptation (less product, *way* less product) but apart from that, it's the very very same. And WCC was born out of necessity with me and my drying Nizoral at one point. LOL! :lol:

lapushka
February 17th, 2017, 04:05 AM
@likelikepenny
I always keep heads up for Lapushka's posts... I'll need to take it slowly so I can understand what works and what doesn't for me, and I am almost starting from square 1, as so far I have been quite random in my choices, I just went for the most natural products in the supermarket without much thinking. I have a long list of things I wanna try, and I am yet to understand the very basics of my hair. I thought that my problems with detangling were due to the texture, but I am relieved to find out that it's very possible to have hair even more textured than mine and detangle them easily, the trick is do it every day and moisturize a lot.

Later I will post a picture of this morning, if I can, and report on what I did before bedtime.

Thank you so so much for the advice, you guys are great!!!!

Take it *slowly* when experimenting, and change up one thing at a time, don't try it all at once, because it will be very hard to pinpoint what works and what doesn't then. Good luck! :)

likelikepenny
February 17th, 2017, 05:40 AM
Take it *slowly* when experimenting, and change up one thing at a time, don't try it all at once, because it will be very hard to pinpoint what works and what doesn't then. Good luck! :)

Very good advice I wish I had heeded when I first came to LHC. There is such a wealth of information here, it can get overwhelming wanting to try everything at once, but it's much better to try things one at a time.

To OP, I'll keep an eye out for this post. Good luck building a regimen that works for you and your hair :)

ghanima
February 17th, 2017, 06:09 AM
Thank you Simsy, Lapushka e Likelikepenny
So basically you guys with super-long hair have no problems with intra-washes detangling because hair is always in a bun or a braid. Makes sense.

So ok, feedback. Photo in a slightly different angle this time. Hair is to be washed tonight, hope it doesn't look gross.

https://s12.postimg.org/y76m8b63x/hair_do_170217_5.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/54sc5hju1/)tÚlÚchargement de photos (https://postimage.org/index.php?lang=french)

I think it shows already improvement (after spraying two evenings only!), I don't know visually but certainly to the touch the hair feel softer, and yesterday they were much easier to detangle. Surprisingly, I found it easier to detangle them dry and spray them after, really my leave-in must be zero slip if that is the case! I will definitely look for another product, anyway this was chosen randomly before I came back to find (LHC) reason. Yesterday after finger combing I really comb-combed, I was afraid the curl pattern would resent it but it doesn't seem so, and this is good to know. I added also coconut oil to the points in the end.

Now, although this is working well, I have questions. One is, am I creating hydral-fatigue here, wetting the hair every evening? it's also not exactly pleasant, and I have seen that I can detangle them dry. If I manage to do some deep treatments to moisturize the hair when I wash them, I may at some point be able to skip the spraying or just do it very lightly, right? I'll have to see how the curl pattern behaves, maybe I'll make a bun - bunwaves! (usually they get buried under my pattern by midday but I can still try)
Second, what if instead of spraying them I just rinse them in the shower, condition under ears and detangle? it would be practical because I actually like showering before bedtime and I already do it all the time.
Third, do you know a natural relaxant a part from henna? I would love to give it a try, see how the curls come up, and it would ease things up with detangling. In the past I had hip length with a soft chemical relaxant applied and it was for me ideal. Husband will divorce me, but who cares for men, ah ah!

pili
February 17th, 2017, 06:22 AM
Just spritz IG hair is highly unlikely to give you hydral-fatigue. That is more likely to happen from shower wetting daily. However, not everyone is susceptible to it. My hair isn't, though I only spritz daily and wash once a week.

BTW, your curl is beautiful. I have 2c/3a curls and I detangle dry, spritz with water and then use oil (currently sweet almond and avocado). I also wear it up unless I am letting it dry on wash day. That works for me as I have found detangling wet/with oil produces s some slip, but also increased shedding a bit. Dry I had minimal shedding. My hair also seems to prefer finger combing unless I am about to do my day-before-wash heavy oiling/pre-wash detangling.

ghanima
February 17th, 2017, 07:30 AM
Thank you!
You're really doing more or less what I was thinking could be my routine with this spray thing. I'll have to try how it is with oils. I have noticed minimal shedding too come to think, detangling dry hair.
With oils I am weary because I used them a lot in the past and this caused me awful awful shedding at some point, a nightmare, handlfuls of hair. I used the oils on dry hair, and I think this was the reason.

Simsy
February 17th, 2017, 07:47 AM
With hydral-fatigue, it really depends on the hair. Mine hates getting wet if it's not getting washed and will usually end up dry and tangly, greasy and tangly, or actually crunchy (and tangly). As a result, even thought I'm a curly, I don't refresh my curls. It's just too much pain for a gain that I don't really care about.

If it's working for you, go right ahead and rock those curls. I'm a little jealous that you can rock them most days; the pattern looks awesome.

likelikepenny
February 17th, 2017, 08:12 AM
I wash mine daily (co-wash, avoiding scalp) and it moisturizes my hair for the day, that way I don't have to spritz and it keeps my hair detangled since I finger comb it daily. My showers only last about 15 minutes. Like Simsy said, hygral fatigue depends on the hair, although in my experience curlier hair is less likely to suffer from it because of it's dry nature.

A lot of my tangles/breakage comes from dryness and rarely over manipulation, depending on your stats, this may be different for you.

You can always try it out for a week or two and see how it works. It works for me right now but the only way to know for sure is to try it out. Worse case scenario, you might need a protein treatment more often, but thats about it.

ghanima
February 17th, 2017, 09:03 AM
Yeah actually when it comes to manipulation my hair seem made of teflon, they've always been forgiving despite being quite thin, detangling breakage and dryness are my only true concerns as well. I'll see to dilute the leave-in the least possible like Lapushka suggested, so I don't need to spray them too much, and maybe sometimes I'll keep them dry too and bun at night. I may as well get that good habit already.
This is a keeper!
Now onto understanding if my hair like silicones better or co-washing...


Thank you guys, you've been most helpful!

pili
February 19th, 2017, 03:08 PM
I make sure my scalp dos not get touched by oils. Oil or conditioner on my scalp causes major shedding for me. I concentrate on the ends, which get the dryest.

ghanima
February 19th, 2017, 05:26 PM
So you think that the conditioner on the scalp would have the same lethal effect? I was just wondering if I should try how co-washing works for me, but if there's a correlation with oils then I've got my answer already.
Yesterday I pre-wash oiled my hair for a few hours, but I also sprayed them with water (I read in post of ktani that if I want any moisturizing effect with oils, I need to give it also the water, which makes sense, I do the same on my face).

This morning I took another picture of my hair (it's good feed-back for me, I had never done it before) and I was very disappointed to see that they didn't look any better than in the previous not freshly washed ones, on the contrary. It became apparent that part of my canopy is in very bad shape, dry and brittle and slightly lighter in color. I'll have to focus some efforts on that area.
Tonight I dry-brushed with TT, sprayed very lightly and put them in a bun, I hope for some nice bun waves tomorrow to make me feel better about my hair. I think starting tomorrow I am going to only finger the comb my hair intra-wash, no TT or comb for a while. In the spray I added to the water and leave-in a very minimal quantity of vinegar to bring down the pH and also a few drops of mineral oil.

pili
February 25th, 2017, 02:20 PM
Sorry, I've been out of town. I'm not sure if there is a correlation between oils and conditioner. I don't have a problem if they are washed off quickly, but if it is not completely washed or rinsed off, I shed.