Tangly ends - should I cut?

[Sw33th34rt4my]

I could use your lovely advice again. The last 2-3 inches of my hair is VERY tangly. The other day my ends tangled while they were heavily oiled when I took my bun out. I have been doing pre-wash oiling with olive oil (my hair doesn't like coconut for this) and the CWC method for washing. I have also been doing deep treatments with conditioner, honey, and oil. My hair seems to like it. I use coconut or jojoba oil on damp hair after every wash as well. But my ends are ALWAYS tangled. Even fresh out of the shower or when I take my hair down.
Should I cut the last few inches? Is there something else I can do to baby them? I did my first microtrim 2 weeks ago and was planning to do them once a month. Should I just wait it out?

[lapushka]

Oil might not be the greatest at removing tangles - I would not rely on it. Rather get yourself a nice moisturizing conditioner. The ones that are marketed towards dry, damaged hair are usually the ones that are the most moisturizing.

Try that, and even the LOC method (link in my signature); then see what your ends do.

[Sw33th34rt4my]

It seems the only thing I can use in my hair lately due to either smell or an allergic reaction is VO5 conditioner. I tried Garnier Olive Oil but I don't think it works any better than VO5 for me.

[Wildcat Diva]

CHELATE. Seriously. Make sure it's not buildup.

[spidermom]

Have you done a clarifying wash from scalp to ends lately?

[Anje]

Clarify and maybe chelate. Seriously, harsh shampoo applied straight to the ends, lather rinse and actually repeat it. Then condition and see how they feel.

ETA: I got super bad tangles using a conditioner with protein once, which my hair apparently can't tolerate in more than rare doses. Check your VO5 conditioner and see whether it has protein (some do, some don't; look for keratin, collagen, ___ amino acids, ___ protein, hydrolyzed ____, soy isolates, things like that). Find a variety that doesn't, and try an SMT with that if clarifying doesn't really fix the problem.

[ChloeDharma]

CHELATE. Seriously. Make sure it's not buildup.

I tried this recently as I have hard water and the effects were amazing! I'm completely sold on clarifying AND chelating now.
I would advise trying this then seeing how your hair feels.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

Also ditch the coconut oil. You might be sensitive to protein. My hair personally hates it and tangles more from using coconut oil.

[Michetta]

What is the difference between chelate and clarifying?

[meteor]

What is the difference between chelate and clarifying?

Chelate to remove mineral build-up from water (e.g. copper, iron, etc...)
Clarify to remove product build-up (e.g. silicones, butters, polyquats...)

Chelating products (sometimes marketed "for swimmers" or "before chemical processing") will have chelating ingredients (e.g. EDTA, sodium citrate...) pretty high up on the ingredients lists.

[Sw33th34rt4my]

I have chelated and clarified in the past few weeks. I will try again.
My haired hated the SMT. I'm ok adding honey and oil to conditioner which I have been doing once a week.
I've already cut out products with protein about 4-6 weeks ago and that has made a huge difference.
I will put the coconut oil away to see it that helps. I have other oils to play with like sweet almond and macadamia.
Thank you for all of the suggestions!

[spidermom]

Coconut oil does not contain protein.

[Nique1202]

Coconut oil does not contain protein.

Coconut doesn't have protein on its own, but it has a high affinity for proteins and it slows protein loss from hair. (Source (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12715094)) So it raises the effectiveness of other protein sources, which seems to cause faster protein buildup for those sensitive to it in other products.

Cutting coconut oil in favour of other oils is definitely a good first (or second or third) step for tangling ends. At worst, it won't help improve anything and you'll have more to cook with. Just remember to do or change one thing at a time (though you can combine chelating and clarifying if you get a shampoo that does both) so you know what fixed the problem. If you do everything all at once, you won't know what fixed it and what had no effect.

[turtlelover]

You might want to double check to see if you are truly using conditioners without proteins, because sometimes it can be easy to miss things. If I condition-wash-condition with anything that has protein, my ends get really grabby. I can just plain wash and condition with conditioners that have protein, but if you throw in that pre-shampoo conditioning with them, my hair rebels.

[meteor]

I really suspect your hair just has a lot of build-up from the oils. That would be the first suspect for me, since you mention that the hair got tangled specifically after you took it down from deep oiling. Sometimes it takes multiple clarifying washes to completely wash out a really heavy oiling.
But the ends that are "always" tangly are possibly damaged, so maybe a microtrim will help. It's hard to tell, I'd just clarify and moisturize first and maybe try a protein treatment on the ends if your hair responds well to protein.


Coconut doesn't have protein on its own, but it has a high affinity for proteins and it slows protein loss from hair. (Source (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12715094)) So it raises the effectiveness of other protein sources, which seems to cause faster protein buildup for those sensitive to it in other products.

Cutting coconut oil in favour of other oils is definitely a good first (or second or third) step for tangling ends. At worst, it won't help improve anything and you'll have more to cook with. Just remember to do or change one thing at a time (though you can combine chelating and clarifying if you get a shampoo that does both) so you know what fixed the problem. If you do everything all at once, you won't know what fixed it and what had no effect.

I think there is a bit of a "leap" between saying that coconut oil reduces protein loss of hair itself (in the referenced study (http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2003/cc054n02/p00175-p00192.pdf) they measured damage by weighing the hair's own protein lost after washing and combing, so for example, cuticles chipping, breakage would register as "protein loss" in that test - see pp. 185 - 187) and saying that coconut oil raises effectiveness of external proteins that can only temporarily adsorb to hair through conditioning.
Those hydrolyzed proteins are extremely varied in functionality, size, etc (some coat, some can get under the cuticle), are they are just conditioning agents that are easy to wash out, they are not part of hair's integral structure at all, so why would they function the same way on hair as proteins constituting hair's cuticles, for example?

[Nique1202]

Fine, then I don't know how it works, but I do know that coconut oil gives a lot of people the same crunchy ends we get from overuse of protein, even when no other oils do the same thing. However you want to try to explain it, it happens, and giving up coconut oil sometimes works.

Some of you keep denying that it's a thing at all and dismissing it as a cause of problems when you come along and say "coconut oil doesn't HAVE protein" as if that means it can't possibly have some effect on the hair. Whether or not it's protein specifically, it has the same empirical effect on some hair. Without access to a lab I can't exactly say why, and nobody else with access to the right equipment seems to care. :shrug: All I know is it feels and acts the same as too much protein on protein-sensitive hair.

[meteor]

^ Fair enough. I have no idea what exactly the mechanism is either. :flower: I guess I thought crunchy ends could be "explained" by the very broad and nebulous concept of "build-up"? :)
I get that effect from some oils if I use a tad too much, especially with butters & oils with high saturated fat content (e.g. coconut), maybe because they solidify at low temperatures?
I noticed that drying oils (which are usually high in polyunsaturated fatty acids) polymerize after long exposure to air and can also give me this really crunchy effect, if left without washing/clarifying for long.
But those are only really weak guesses on my part. I really don't know what it is... :hmm: I really wish there was a bit of research into the mechanics behind it.

[Vanilla Mint]

Fine, then I don't know how it works, but I do know that coconut oil gives a lot of people the same crunchy ends we get from overuse of protein, even when no other oils do the same thing. However you want to try to explain it, it happens, and giving up coconut oil sometimes works.

Some of you keep denying that it's a thing at all and dismissing it as a cause of problems when you come along and say "coconut oil doesn't HAVE protein" as if that means it can't possibly have some effect on the hair. Whether or not it's protein specifically, it has the same empirical effect on some hair. Without access to a lab I can't exactly say why, and nobody else with access to the right equipment seems to care. :shrug: All I know is it feels and acts the same as too much protein on protein-sensitive hair.

My hair reacts in this "over-protein-ated" way to coconut oil when I use it too often, the same way it would with protein-containing products. In fact, if my hair responds negatively to coconut oil at any given time, it will respond similarly to protein within the same time frame (and vice-versa). It's as if they are one in the same to my strands! Once my hair was a lot less damaged, I pretty much stopped using coconut oil at all, because it would cause more problems than it fixed. Especially if I am using henna regularly, my hair just can't tolerate heavy protein or coconut oil being added into the mix. I'm not sure what is going on at a chemical level, but when I think of "protein products", coconut oil is lumped in there based solely on my experience with it. It should still be thrown out there when people are experiencing crunchy hair, even if no one is sure what's going on.

[Sw33th34rt4my]

Well, I tried to clarify/chelate and followed with a deep condition and no change. I have not been using any protein, coconut was a rare thing and now I am not using any oils. Not sure what to do now.

[lapushka]

Well, I tried to clarify/chelate and followed with a deep condition and no change. I have not been using any protein, coconut was a rare thing and now I am not using any oils. Not sure what to do now.

Maybe join the microtrimming thread, and cut in increments, to keep growth. I wouldn't cut it all off in one go. Maybe a small amount will give you a change. Sometimes you don't need to cut a lot to see a big change!

[Mrstran]

I'm not the best with tangles and cannot help with that, though I wish I could. What I can give you is my opinion on cutting. I wouldn't cut your ends unless they are breaking off and completely damaged beyond "repair" (I use repair lightly as I know there is no true repair, just treatments)

I'm sure you've gotten some great tips on this thread and with the knowledge you already have, you'll have this solved in no time. Keep those lovely ends :)

[Deborah]

Since you have tried clarifying and chelating and that did not work, I'd trim off an inch or two. I bet that would solve it. At 32 inches, I don't think you would really notice any difference in the look of your hair, but I bet it would feel much better.

Good luck with whatever you try next!

[Dark40]

If I were you get yourself some detangling leave=in spray. Like, Mane N Tail. It really works my hair wonders!!! I don't have any problems with detangling or tangles but I use it anyways. :)

[*Wednesday*]

This may be a bit odd, I wonder if you have "hard water." High mineral content in your water can stop moister from entering your hair. The water can be "softened" if this be the case. Hard water can cause constant tangling. Just an FYI.

http://www.chagrinvalleysoapandsalve.com/idascorner/shampoo-hair/how-does-your-water-affect-your-hair