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View Full Version : Non vinegar based acid rinse??



JustPam
February 13th, 2017, 05:34 AM
Hi all, I'd like to give acid rinsing another go to try and get more smoothness. I've tried before with ACV and white vinegar but I just can't take the smell (I don't even use vinegar on my food, just don't like it) I only used a capful in a litre of cold water but I could still smell it. Are there any alternative options that are a: not a total PITA to find in shops (bear in mind I am in the UK), and b: that don't leave a strong smell?

PixieP
February 13th, 2017, 05:40 AM
Fruit teas are quite acidic, I use that instead of lemon juice in my henna mix. No idea if it'll work the same way as a vinegar rinse though!

Does your hair still smell after it's dry? I feel like mine stops smelling like vinegar after I've rinsed it out and there is no smell left after my hair has dried.

Obsidian
February 13th, 2017, 05:41 AM
Citric acid is a good choice, comes in a powder and has no scent. Not sure where to find it in the UK but in the US, it's with the canning supplies at the grocery store.
Amazon or eBay will have it too.

school of fish
February 13th, 2017, 06:35 AM
Seconding citric acid - that's what I use because ultimately the vinegar scent of my acidic rinses was getting to me too. I get mine at the heath shop :)

There's also lemon juice, which I used for a while and did not experience any lightening, but depending upon your hair might be a factor. While I was still using vinegar I'd throw a few drops of lavendar, rosemary or cedarwood essential oils (or a combo of those) to cut the vinegar smell - that did help.

Kaya
February 13th, 2017, 06:42 AM
Another vote for citric acid. Not only is it good for hair rinses, but I've been able to replace a lot of chemical cleaners with it. It's wonderful against limescale!

If you can't find it in a shop, I order mine from Amazon UK. :o

likelikepenny
February 13th, 2017, 07:00 AM
Citric acid sounds like a good choice for you, although have you tried adding EO to your vinegar rinses? It really takes down on the smell.

Chromis
February 13th, 2017, 07:33 AM
I find the hippie ACV smells much, much better! The kind sold "with the mother" often in a glass bottle.

I will also vote for citric acid. Another place to find it are places that have cheesemaking supplies.

JustPam
February 13th, 2017, 07:34 AM
Thanks for the quick replies, looks like citric acid powder is available on ebay, bonus that it doesn't smell of anything! How much do you dilute it by, or should I order some pH strips along with it??


Does your hair still smell after it's dry? I feel like mine stops smelling like vinegar after I've rinsed it out and there is no smell left after my hair has dried.

It did faintly, but the main issue was the application, it made my mouth water in the bad way, you know like just before you puke, haha, although it didn't make me physically sick, but queasy. Wasn't worth it for me.

lapushka
February 13th, 2017, 07:49 AM
If you can't find citric acid, a lemon rinse is what I did.

Just a teaspoon or tablespoon in 1L of water and that should be okay. I didn't see that much of a difference, even though I responded better to the lemon than to the white vinegar (no difference at all).

Hairkay
February 13th, 2017, 11:44 AM
A lemon or lime rinse is easily available.

Anje
February 13th, 2017, 12:28 PM
You don't need much citric acid. Most of the time, it runs on the order of a pinch or two in a big cup of water. (I use a plastic take-out cup for rinses, normally.) Put the acid in first, then add some water, swirl it a bit to dissolve it, then top it off, because it takes a few moments to dissolve. My usual advice is to taste your resulting concoction. You want it to be mildly sour, but not overwhelmingly so. If you don't taste any acidity, you probably want more.

JustPam
February 16th, 2017, 05:05 AM
Thanks guys, got citric acid powder on order, though it's cosmetic grade not food grade so not sure I wanna taste it haha. One more question, does it keep well in a bottle once made up?

lapushka
February 16th, 2017, 08:46 AM
Thanks guys, got citric acid powder on order, though it's cosmetic grade not food grade so not sure I wanna taste it haha. One more question, does it keep well in a bottle once made up?

I would use however much you need, and make it to use it. Don't make an entire batch, just do it on a one use basis.

Anje
February 16th, 2017, 12:12 PM
Thanks guys, got citric acid powder on order, though it's cosmetic grade not food grade so not sure I wanna taste it haha. One more question, does it keep well in a bottle once made up?


I would use however much you need, and make it to use it. Don't make an entire batch, just do it on a one use basis.

I agree, just make it up as needed. Enough things can use citrate as an energy source that I think you've got a risk of contamination. Better just to keep the bulk of it dry.

Tosca
February 16th, 2017, 11:03 PM
Also, it you just make up one batch at a time, you can play with the concentration/strength more easily.

school of fish
February 16th, 2017, 11:19 PM
Agreeing with making up as needed :)

I keep a plastic squeeze bottle in my bathroom (the kind you'd use for hair colour application - it holds approx 8oz/250ml/1 cup ) along with an 1/8tsp measuring spoon. I just drop one little scoop of citric acid into the bottle before my shower each morning, then fill the bottle from the shower stream. It adds maybe 10 seconds to my morning routine - my routine *has* to be minimal; I couldn't manage to do anything more involved at that hour of the morning :p

ghanima
February 18th, 2017, 10:01 AM
I was just watching this very well done youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBP7CzoiLbQ) and I thought of this thread, as this and other videos from the same channel (Structure of Hair series) explain pH very well, and how to achieve the ideal pH for hair, which is 4.5. For example I found out that I use a way too big concentration of AVC in water. Ideally, ACV being pH3 and water pH7, one should use 1 part of ACV in 100 parts of water. Lemon juice is pH2, so it needs to be watered down even more, much much more. Now I don't know where it lands us with citric acid, I think I will buy those strips in the pharmacy soon, so I'll keep in check the acidity of all my DIY's from now on. What messes things up is that the pH scale is logaritmic, not linear. That's why so much pH7 water is needed to raise the acidity of ACV or lemon from pH2 or 3 to 4.5.

Siiri
February 18th, 2017, 11:21 AM
I was just watching this very well done youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBP7CzoiLbQ) and I thought of this thread, as this and other videos from the same channel (Structure of Hair series) explain pH very well, and how to achieve the ideal pH for hair, which is 4.5. For example I found out that I use a way too big concentration of AVC in water. Ideally, ACV being pH3 and water pH7, one should use 1 part of ACV in 100 parts of water. Lemon juice is pH2, so it needs to be watered down even more, much much more. Now I don't know where it lands us with citric acid, I think I will buy those strips in the pharmacy soon, so I'll keep in check the acidity of all my DIY's from now on. What messes things up is that the pH scale is logaritmic, not linear. That's why so much pH7 water is needed to raise the acidity of ACV or lemon from pH2 or 3 to 4.5.

I used to do citric acid rinses and that's what I did too, measured the ph with the ph strips. The ph of pure water is 7, but the water you get at your house is not pure water. Here natural water is acidic, but the water company adds something to it to make it alkaline, so it won't corrode the water pipes. According to the regulations the ph can be anywhere between 6.5 to 9.5.

Anje
February 18th, 2017, 12:27 PM
I was just watching this very well done youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBP7CzoiLbQ) and I thought of this thread, as this and other videos from the same channel (Structure of Hair series) explain pH very well, and how to achieve the ideal pH for hair, which is 4.5. For example I found out that I use a way too big concentration of AVC in water. Ideally, ACV being pH3 and water pH7, one should use 1 part of ACV in 100 parts of water. Lemon juice is pH2, so it needs to be watered down even more, much much more. Now I don't know where it lands us with citric acid, I think I will buy those strips in the pharmacy soon, so I'll keep in check the acidity of all my DIY's from now on. What messes things up is that the pH scale is logaritmic, not linear. That's why so much pH7 water is needed to raise the acidity of ACV or lemon from pH2 or 3 to 4.5.

I'm guessing that this is based on distilled water. Depending on your local water's mineral content, you might need much more to overcome the buffering of the dissolved carbonates.

ghanima
February 18th, 2017, 04:03 PM
Ah yeah you are right, she was talking of distilled water. Which should be a good ratio in your opinion, using average tap water?

ETA: I hadn't seen the post of Siiri, who had already answered my question. Sorry...

JustPam
February 19th, 2017, 04:36 PM
Agreeing with making up as needed :)

I keep a plastic squeeze bottle in my bathroom (the kind you'd use for hair colour application - it holds approx 8oz/250ml/1 cup ) along with an 1/8tsp measuring spoon. I just drop one little scoop of citric acid into the bottle before my shower each morning, then fill the bottle from the shower stream. It adds maybe 10 seconds to my morning routine - my routine *has* to be minimal; I couldn't manage to do anything more involved at that hour of the morning :p

Thanks, the smallest spoon I have is a 1/4 tsp, so maybe that in 500ml water is a good place to start. The powder arrived on Friday, I'm going to try it tomorrow night.

ghanima
February 19th, 2017, 06:58 PM
That's too much concentration. I googled and according to this site 1/4 of tsp is good for 2 l of water. Verify this info though as I don't know how accurate that is.

Anje
February 20th, 2017, 07:10 AM
It really depends on your local water, which can vary wildly from place to place. Best to test with some pH strips, or taste it to check that it's mildly sour.

school of fish
February 20th, 2017, 08:34 AM
^^What Anje said :) I don't believe there's one magic formula or proportion for everyone - each person's sweet spot will take some trial and error to determine. Cross-referencing other people's ratios (while paying particular attention to the successes of others who have hair that *behaves* like yours) is I believe the wisest approach to determining a starting point on any method - I prefer that to googling ;)

I listed out my own routine more to demonstrate how I make up my rinse each time than to suggest that my proportion is the 'right' one ;) Sorry if I hadn't made that clear! The ratio I use is certainly not too concentrated for me - I've been using it daily for the last 2 years at least, and my hair is happier for it :D

ghanima
February 20th, 2017, 10:12 AM
I have used way too concentrated ACV+water solutions too, on my face, for years and my skin is just fine. But as we're here talking about dosages, I really think it a good idea to get a sense of them. It does depend on how hard the water is, still 500ml as opposed to 2l feels like quite a big difference to me.

JustPam
February 20th, 2017, 11:12 AM
I have used way too concentrated ACV+water solutions too, on my face, for years and my skin is just fine. But as we're here talking about dosages, I really think it a good idea to get a sense of them. It does depend on how hard the water is, still 500ml as opposed to 2l feels like quite a big difference to me.

Reading up a little on the pH scale and if I understand it correctly you would need to increase the acid content tenfold to go down 1 pH value. So if I've got that right then increasing it by 4x (or in this case decreasing the dilution by 4x) would change the pH value by 0.4? Maybe I should have bought those test strips, chemistry is not my strong subject...

school of fish
February 20th, 2017, 11:18 AM
I have used way too concentrated ACV+water solutions too, on my face, for years and my skin is just fine. But as we're here talking about dosages, I really think it a good idea to get a sense of them. It does depend on how hard the water is, still 500ml as opposed to 2l feels like quite a big difference to me.

Oh me too, for sure, haha!! When I think back to some of my experimenting years ago with lemon juice I now understand why I was getting crunchy hair and pulling my henna colour out :p Didn't do any lasting damage but for years it kept me away from experimenting enough to get my dose right. That's why I like to cross-reference sources for dosage suggestions, and to consider the source ;)

I'm in complete agreement with you on a minimal-intervention approach - best to start low and work up as necessary :)

Anje
February 20th, 2017, 12:31 PM
Reading up a little on the pH scale and if I understand it correctly you would need to increase the acid content tenfold to go down 1 pH value. So if I've got that right then increasing it by 4x (or in this case decreasing the dilution by 4x) would change the pH value by 0.4? Maybe I should have bought those test strips, chemistry is not my strong subject...

0.6, I believe, because it's logarithmic. But that's assuming a strong acid that fully dissociates, which acetic acid is not.

JustPam
February 21st, 2017, 03:34 AM
Well I tried it last night, with 1/4tsp in about 750ml water, dunked length then poured over scalp. Immediately my hair felt softer, I squeezed it out and wrapped in a tshirt for 15 mins or so then detangled, and what a difference, no grabbyness at all! I then blow dried which made it floofy again, braided it and went to bed. This morning it is very well behaved, minimal frizz, baby hairs and wispies are very smooth, have it in a braid today and can't stop feeling the tassel. I think this is a keeper :)

school of fish
February 21st, 2017, 08:05 AM
Well I tried it last night, with 1/4tsp in about 750ml water, dunked length then poured over scalp. Immediately my hair felt softer, I squeezed it out and wrapped in a tshirt for 15 mins or so then detangled, and what a difference, no grabbyness at all! I then blow dried which made it floofy again, braided it and went to bed. This morning it is very well behaved, minimal frizz, baby hairs and wispies are very smooth, have it in a braid today and can't stop feeling the tassel. I think this is a keeper :)

Awesome!! Sounds like a winner! :D