The Water-Mostly/Hybrid WO Washing Thread

[Ophidian]

Hi all, I haven't seen a thread for this before but I know that there are others out there. Shall we swap notes?

I imagine that water-mostly washers would be those who WO the majority of the time and shampoo occasionally, or use products regularly but at high dilution--basically those of us who prefer water washing but need/want a little shampoo and/or conditioner from time to time. I am not opposed to discussing alternative washing methods (clay, rye flour, etc), but there are already active threads for those.

I did WO exclusively, with occasional acidic or tea rinses and some oiling, for about 7 months. About a month ago I decided to experiment with dilute shampoo but have yet to hit a good balance. Currently I use 1 part sulfate-free shampoo to 10 parts water to wash once a week, and even this feels a little stripping to my hair. My scalp, however, seems ready for a rinse after about 4 days. I am considering increasing the frequency of my WO washes to twice a week and using dilute shampoo every other week.

What are your experiences?

[lapushka]

Great idea for a thread. :thumbsup:

I tried going WO but had to use shampoo after more than a week. This was before I needed to stretch to 2 weeks without anything due to a medical issue. I never tried this since. I gave up on WO quite fast and tried it pretty early on (yeah, when I got here I was all over the place), realizing it wasn't my cup of tea. I have SD, and it's just too finicky.

[likelikepenny]

I feel like I belong in this thread. I incorporate a lot of water only practices (ie. preening and scalp massages for sebum distribution, water washes, and using ACV as a shampoo) but I also co-wash and clarify once or twice a year.

[Ophidian]

Thanks lapushka, and hi likeapenny!

[truepeacenik]

I'm high dilution, with monthly/bi monthly clarifying. Massage oil is invasive stuff. ;)

[Anje]

Once upon a time, I was doing a water-mostly thing, with some acidic rinses and oil, because my ends would still dry out and my water was pretty hard. Honestly, a rare CO washing every so often was an extreme amount of cleansing to me, and I don't think I would have liked what dilute shampoo would have done. It worked well overall -- I stuck to WO with maybe 3-4 COs over the entire course of around 8 months, but a move and frustration at my end dryness eventually won out.

More recently I was doing a dilute shampoo and conditioner routine, and a 1/10 or 1/15 dilution was probably my normal for that. Seems way too much for WO, honestly.

[Nymphe]

I use mostly water and oil. My scalp does not produce enough oil, so I compromise. Been at it for over two years now.

[Ophidian]

Hi anje, can you clarify what seems too much for WO--do you mean the 1/10-1/15 dilution?

I get what you said about even occasional CO-ing seeming like a pretty extreme cleansing if you are primarily WO. My hair has definitely been different since I stopped doing WO exclusively. I don't seem to be producing much sebum and so I'm experimenting to find a dilution that offers some cleansing but isn't too stripping. I did try a few CO washes but my scalp didn't seem to react well and my hair felt a little coated. Probably I could get better results if I tried different conditioners but I'm going to stick with the diluted shampoo for a while to see if I can find a good medium.

I did an unintentionally heavy oiling this weekend and was able to get it out easily with a 1/10 dilution of new shampoo (gentle but concentrated), so I have a feeling I'll need to go even easier on the shampoo on non-oiled hair.

[Ophidian]

I'm high dilution, with monthly/bi monthly clarifying. Massage oil is invasive stuff. ;)

Hi! What dilution works for you?

[Anje]

Hi anje, can you clarify what seems too much for WO--do you mean the 1/10-1/15 dilution?

I get what you said about even occasional CO-ing seeming like a pretty extreme cleansing if you are primarily WO. My hair has definitely been different since I stopped doing WO exclusively. I don't seem to be producing much sebum and so I'm experimenting to find a dilution that offers some cleansing but isn't too stripping. I did try a few CO washes but my scalp didn't seem to react well and my hair felt a little coated. Probably I could get better results if I tried different conditioners but I'm going to stick with the diluted shampoo for a while to see if I can find a good medium.

Yeah, my dilution of shampoo would probably have been too cleansing and would have required several weeks' of sebum before my hair felt 'normal' again. That said, I see now that you're using a sulfate-free shampoo, which is likely a lot less potent than my cheapo sulfate shampoo. :)

Not everyone can CO successfully. Some scalps just don't take to it, though I never had much issue myself. Suave Naturals works well enough for me, though some people find it waxy. I've got that sensitive "combination" skin that can get simultaneously oily and dry if it gets out of whack, but which often does very well with extra moisturizing and responds by producing less oil. On a scalp, it's a good candidate for WO, stretching washes, and other less-intensive cleaning schema.

[Ophidian]

Yeah, my dilution of shampoo would probably have been too cleansing and would have required several weeks' of sebum before my hair felt 'normal' again. That said, I see now that you're using a sulfate-free shampoo, which is likely a lot less potent than my cheapo sulfate shampoo. :)

Not everyone can CO successfully. Some scalps just don't take to it, though I never had much issue myself. Suave Naturals works well enough for me, though some people find it waxy. I've got that sensitive "combination" skin that can get simultaneously oily and dry if it gets out of whack, but which often does very well with extra moisturizing and responds by producing less oil. On a scalp, it's a good candidate for WO, stretching washes, and other less-intensive cleaning schema.

Yup, that's me too

[likelikepenny]

Not everyone can CO successfully. Some scalps just don't take to it,

My scalp hates conditioner and is very particular with what it likes. I only ever put water or diluted ACV on my scalp, clarifying, conditioner, oils, etc. is only for my length.

[vpatt]

Oh I think this is where I belong, at least for now. Before finding LHC I had about a year of trying all sorts of things on my hair. Clay, honey, baking soda and a coconut shampoo that I made. After finding this site I eventually went to CO with Suave Naturals.....I loved it. But after a few months I began to shed more than usual. I went back to the PuraD'or which I had used after a huge shed a year or so before. I could end up back at CO with the occasional shampoo to (hopefully) prevent shedding. But I am fascinated by WO. So I am trying it. Honestly, I think I just enjoy trying different methods. And I would love to be able to go at least a week without oily hair.

I did just try some fractionated coconut oil yesterday on my scalp and way overdid it. So now I'm trying to get that out without full strength shampoo.

Thank you Ophidian, for all your advice.

[Ophidian]

Of course vpatt, I hope some of it has been helpful to you :flower:

I just did a mid-week WO wash and my hair feels awesome. Beforehand I scritched with a comb, which I realized is gentler than my fingernails once I got the technique down. Then BBB'd, wet hair, and preened in the shower. My favorite technique is to section out about an inch of hair horizontally across the nape of my neck and smooth it down with a flat palm under the shower spray. Then I section above it and repeat, wrapping around the sides as needed, until I reach the top of my head. This distributes sebum really well without manipulating it too much while wet as long as I section under running water.

I'm probably going to do a dilute s&c on Sunday. Still trying to find the right shampoo to water ratio. Conditioner I don't dilute, just use it on the very ends.

[likelikepenny]

Of course vpatt, I hope some of it has been helpful to you :flower:

I just did a mid-week WO wash and my hair feels awesome. Beforehand I scritched with a comb, which I realized is gentler than my fingernails once I got the technique down. Then BBB'd, wet hair, and preened in the shower. My favorite technique is to section out about an inch of hair horizontally across the nape of my neck and smooth it down with a flat palm under the shower spray. Then I section above it and repeat, wrapping around the sides as needed, until I reach the top of my head. This distributes sebum really well without manipulating it too much while wet as long as I section under running water.

I'm probably going to do a dilute s&c on Sunday. Still trying to find the right shampoo to water ratio. Conditioner I don't dilute, just use it on the very ends.

I really like your preening technique. I'll have to try that out :)

[Ophidian]

I really like your preening technique. I'll have to try that out :)

It took me a long time to figure out a preening technique that worked for me and I never do it any other way now. Let me know how it works for you!

[vpatt]

Nothing like the flu to take your mind off hair and help stretch washes. Ugh.

[vpatt]

I had to wash it so I did CO.

[Ophidian]

Nothing like the flu to take your mind off hair and help stretch washes. Ugh.

Ugh. For sure. Hope you feel better soon!

I did a full wash last night with sulfate free shampoo diluted 1/2 tsp to 1/2 cup (I believe this is about 1:48). Some sudsy feeling in the length but no lather when I massaged it into my scalp. Felt more like a slightly cleansing rinse than a shampoo in the sense that I still had to use mechanical techniques to get my scalp clean instead of relying on the product. I haven't taken my hair down from drying braids yet so not sure about the results. I want to find a dilution that is as mild as possible while still providing enough cleansing to keep my scalp happy.

[vpatt]

I still have oil in my hair......this was my second or third rinse or wash. I've last track since I've been sick. But it will take more shampoo, I think. Not worried about it today, I still feel icky.

Couldn't stand it, washed again. I think I used too much shampoo...but it will be ok.

Thank you Ophidian. This is nasty stuff.

[vpatt]

I still have oil in my hair......this was my second or third rinse or wash. I've last track since I've been sick. But it will take more shampoo, I think. Not worried about it today, I still feel icky.

Couldn't stand it, washed again. I think I used too much shampoo...but it will be ok.

Thank you Ophidian. This is nasty stuff.

Update: I used my Shimmer Lights diluted and then put a small dollup on my crown. It cleaned my hair and then some. It is so slippy slidey that it wont stay in a braid! I don't really dislike it, but it is totally different. I feel like it is not going to last long before it starts getting greasy again. Sigh.

I feel like I already posted this....or was that a flu induced hallucination?

[Ophidian]

I haven't seen anything :)

What is Shimmer Lights?

[vpatt]

I haven't seen anything :)

What is Shimmer Lights?

It is a purple shampoo (Clairol, I think) that whitens up silver hair. And I think it acts as clarifying for me. I just don't remember my hair ever being so slippery before. I won't use coconut oil in my hair again. I seems it made the ends crunchy. I might try jojoba as it is close to human sebum, I think. I wonder about hemp oil, also. Have any of you tried hemp oil?

[likelikepenny]

I feel like I'm unintentionally inching towards water mostly/only like I did with silicones. I've taken to diluting my conditioner as it works better.

[Ophidian]

It is a purple shampoo (Clairol, I think) that whitens up silver hair. And I think it acts as clarifying for me. I just don't remember my hair ever being so slippery before. I won't use coconut oil in my hair again. I seems it made the ends crunchy. I might try jojoba as it is close to human sebum, I think. I wonder about hemp oil, also. Have any of you tried hemp oil?

I have never tried hemp. Yeah, I think coconut can do that. My hair likes it but I hear the crunchy thing a lot. I've heard good things about jojoba, and it's pretty light so that might be easier to get out without a full CO or shampoo wash? I've been thinking about trying it for scalp massage. My scalp is so much happier when I oil it lightly a few times between washes but I do notice some increase in shedding (not terrible but noticeable). I'm wondering if a different type of oil might work better for me (usually use a castor blend).

I've been a weekly washer for a long time but the last few weeks I've stepped it up to twice, sometimes WO and sometimes dilute shampoo, and feel like this might be my happy medium.

In other news, I found some old articles on herb washing from the old LHC and I'm super exited to try a few in lieu of shampoo.

[likelikepenny]

I have never tried hemp. Yeah, I think coconut can do that. My hair likes it but I hear the crunchy thing a lot. I've heard good things about jojoba, and it's pretty light so that might be easier to get out without a full CO or shampoo wash? I've been thinking about trying it for scalp massage. My scalp is so much happier when I oil it lightly a few times between washes but I do notice some increase in shedding (not terrible but noticeable). I'm wondering if a different type of oil might work better for me (usually use a castor blend).

I've been a weekly washer for a long time but the last few weeks I've stepped it up to twice, sometimes WO and sometimes dilute shampoo, and feel like this might be my happy medium.

In other news, I found some old articles on herb washing from the old LHC and I'm super exited to try a few in lieu of shampoo.

Green tea and ACV works great as shampoo alternatives for me. Green tea is a little more astringent though.

[Nymphe]

I wonder about hemp oil, also. Have any of you tried hemp oil? Hempseed oil is my second favorite oil, softens my hair when I do oil rinsing. It contains a high amount of ceramides, which protect the hair strands for protein loss. It does have a strong grassy scent, but I cover that with essential oils. I mix mine with castor oil and keep it in the fridge to keep it fresh.

[Ophidian]

Green tea and ACV works great as shampoo alternatives for me. Green tea is a little more astringent though.

I have used herb/ACV rinses before as a boost to WO washing but these recipes are based around herbs that contain saponins (yucca, soapwort, soapnuts/aritha all create mild suds). They also contain a thickener (cornstarch or arrowroot) so the consistency is supposed to be somewhat shampoo-like. Will report back :)

[vpatt]

Thank you all. I think I will try jojoba and hemp seed oil. It sounds crazy that I want to add oil to an oily scalp. But I am going on the thought that adding oil might help the scalp to stop producing oil.....do I have that right? Am I understanding that you all use oil on your fingertips to cover the whole scalp? One dip for the whole scalp?

I really want to try stretching washes, but here I am on Friday after washing on Monday and my scalp is getting oily. I know I only did the WO for 3 weeks before washing due to my coconut oil fiasco. But I guess not only am I impatient but due to my oiliness I wonder if I will succeed at WO. Fine hair and medium thickness......what do you all think? Is this a hair type that typically adjusts?

I really want to try soap nuts when I find mine, if they are still good. Also, I tried green tea and I didn't see that it did anything to cut the grease.....maybe there is a particular way to use it? Ditto for the vinegar and for plain water. In other words there was still oil after these rinses. Am I expecting too much too soon?

I feel that I will be starting over completely now because I used more shampoo than intended.

[vpatt]

Sorry for the duplicate.

So....this morning I washed with diluted Shea Moisture Shine and Curl.....put a bit of condish on the ends and then worked just a bit of Shea Moisture Smoothie thru scrunched and let it dry. I did comb out in the shower. So the results are in the siggie. As usual, poor picture.

I realize that doesn't sound like it's for this thread, but I was trying to kind of start over with some form of WO and I had to get the oil out. So now tell me. When your hair gets greasy and you rinse with water does the water really get out the grease? Or is your head just greasy until your scalp finally adjusts?

March 1, Another update: this morning I did a water only rinse and it seems as if it may have cleansed my scalp better. However, what is it with me and oils, lol? I worked just a touch of olive oil into the ends before my rinse and it seems even that small amount may have been too much. But I will see how it is by tomorrow morning. So I began about January 30....that is one month and I used shampoo only twice I think. It is fairly wavy...from water only or from olive oil? Hmmm....

[vpatt]

Icky hair day today...thinking of trying egg or just diluted shampoo. Doesn't feel like I'm going make it with water only.

[Ophidian]

Still experimenting with best dilution. Yesterday I washed moderately oiled hair with 2 tsp sulfate-free shampoo in 1 cup of tea (nettle-based herbal infusion). I also applied to dry hair, which I haven't tried before. Good results. Last time I used this ratio I had less volume (1 tsp in 1/2 cup) and didn't get as clean as I'd like. More volume lets me work it in a bit more and get every part clean without stripping it. I did not use any conditioner, just some oil+honey on wet ends in the shower and Nightblooming leave-in on them afterwards.

I am experimenting a bit with herb washes too.

[vpatt]

Still experimenting with best dilution. Yesterday I washed moderately oiled hair with 2 tsp sulfate-free shampoo in 1 cup of tea (nettle-based herbal infusion). I also applied to dry hair, which I haven't tried before. Good results. Last time I used this ratio I had less volume (1 tsp in 1/2 cup) and didn't get as clean as I'd like. More volume lets me work it in a bit more and get every part clean without stripping it. I did not use any conditioner, just some oil+honey on wet ends in the shower and Nightblooming leave-in on them afterwards.

I am experimenting a bit with herb washes too.

I'm very curious about details your experiments.

[Ophidian]

I'm very curious about details your experiments.
:)
So I found these articles complied by LHC users a while ago, and I'm trying two recipes: Dianyla's Hair Gravy substituting yucca for soapwort (because I couldn't find soapwort) and adding marshmallow (for conditioning, but I suppose I should try the original formula as is too), and Mira-Chan's Indian Herb Hair Gravy. Both have a shampoo-like consistency and cleansing ability from herbs that suds up a bit in water. I tried the first recipe once and liked the results.
http://www.gossamerstrands.com/Hair/Indianherbs.htm
http://www.gossamerstrands.com/Hair/Westherbart.htm

[vpatt]

:)
So I found these articles complied by LHC users a while ago, and I'm trying two recipes: Dianyla's Hair Gravy substituting yucca for soapwort (because I couldn't find soapwort) and adding marshmallow (for conditioning, but I suppose I should try the original formula as is too), and Mira-Chan's Indian Herb Hair Gravy. Both have a shampoo-like consistency and cleansing ability from herbs that suds up a bit in water. I tried the first recipe once and liked the results.
http://www.gossamerstrands.com/Hair/Indianherbs.htm
http://www.gossamerstrands.com/Hair/Westherbart.htm

I am checking them out now. My scalp is oily. Do you think this will work?

* I see that Rose Mountain Herbs sells soapwort root. I don't know if that is the type you need.
Oh, I see they are out of stock, also.

[Ophidian]

I am checking them out now. My scalp is oily. Do you think this will work?

* I see that Rose Mountain Herbs sells soapwort root. I don't know if that is the type you need.
Oh, I see they are out of stock, also.

Yeah, I order herbs from Mountain Rose and they were out of stock. Certain herbs are able to remove oil to some extent, so most of the recipes intended to wash are built around those herbs (yucca, soapwort, soapnut...) Individual results certainly vary, so only one way to find out! I personally enjoy experimenting, logging results, and brewing things in my kitchen, but if your tolerance for fiddly things is low then herb washing is probably not high on the list convenience-wise. I'm having fun though :)

[vpatt]

Yeah, I order herbs from Mountain Rose and they were out of stock. Certain herbs are able to remove oil to some extent, so most of the recipes intended to wash are built around those herbs (yucca, soapwort, soapnut...) Individual results certainly vary, so only one way to find out! I personally enjoy experimenting, logging results, and brewing things in my kitchen, but if your tolerance for fiddly things is low then herb washing is probably not high on the list convenience-wise. I'm having fun though :)

Haha Mountain Rose, not Rose Mountain. I have ordered from them, too. I think I will search today for my soapnuts. I make soap occasionally so I do like messing around with such things. But I can fall victim to advertising at times, lol.

*So....I simmered my soap nuts right down to a nasty black residue...sigh, lol. That burner sometimes malfunctions. I think I will try a diluted shampoo today. Just to see how it goes. After the smell and smoke clear out.

[Ophidian]

vpatt, if you are into herb-y things, I feel like I've been reading a lot here and elsewhere about people using witch hazel applied directly to the scalp as a way to handle oiliness without doing a full wash. I'm not 100% sure how it's used (dabbed on with a cotton ball? Applicator/spray bottle?) but thought you might be interested (though I may not be doing you any favors by suggesting yet another experiment :))

[vpatt]

vpatt, if you are into herb-y things, I feel like I've been reading a lot here and elsewhere about people using witch hazel applied directly to the scalp as a way to handle oiliness without doing a full wash. I'm not 100% sure how it's used (dabbed on with a cotton ball? Applicator/spray bottle?) but thought you might be interested (though I may not be doing you any favors by suggesting yet another experiment :))

Thanks! I did just read that somewhere, may give it a try. I used my Shea Moisture products today with the Curl and Shine shampoo diluted. I think it's at least gentle and more natural than some products.

[likelikepenny]

Doesn't most witch hazel contain alcohol?

[Ophidian]

Doesn't most witch hazel contain alcohol?

I think some of it does, but I know there are brands that have an alcohol-free option (Thayers)

[vpatt]

I think some of it does, but I know there are brands that have an alcohol-free option (Thayers)

"The Wellness Mama" recommends Thayers, also.

[Ophidian]

Had great success washing with soapnut tea yesterday! Followed with conditioning herb rinse and honey/olive oil on the ends. Had some honey mix left over so I mixed in some bentonite clay and used it as a face and body wash. I am thinking this routine could replace my dilute shampoos for the very most part, unless I need to clarify or get out a heavy oiling.

I've been sticking to the mid-week WO wash and find this really helps keep my scalp happy. Was concerned the length wouldn't like more frequent washing but it actually seems to keep it nicely moisturized.

[vpatt]

I am going to try the mid week water rinse this week. I am still trying different washes. The last two washes have been with diluted shampoo. Shea Moisture products as they seem to be more natural and gentle. I will try the soap nuts again. I will watch them better this time to avoid burning.
What is your ratio of oil and honey?

[Ophidian]

Vpatt, I use roughly 1 Tbsp honey and 1/4 tsp olive oil, and only use it on the last inch or so

[vpatt]

Vpatt, I use roughly 1 Tbsp honey and 1/4 tsp olive oil, and only use it on the last inch or so

Thank you for the advice. I do have honey and olive oil....May give it a try. I have washed my hair with honey before and liked the result.

[Ophidian]

Thank you for the advice. I do have honey and olive oil....May give it a try. I have washed my hair with honey before and liked the result.

You're welcome! I love honey. I use it in herb and ACV rinses too and it always leaves my hair very soft.

[vpatt]

It is also nice on the face. I have used honey and oil to clean my face both separately and together. I will try my soap nut brew again today. I will sit in the kitchen this time in case the burner acts up again. I had turned the heat down and set the timer last time....but the burner remained high,even after I cut it off. I will save the liquid in the fridge until shampoo day. I am very curious to see how it works.

[lapushka]

I think some of it does, but I know there are brands that have an alcohol-free option (Thayers)


"The Wellness Mama" recommends Thayers, also.

Yep, Thayers was the one I was thinking of too.

But on top of that, doesn't which hazel itself react about the same as alcohol since it's an astringent? Again, I have no *clue* here. I'm just concerned about it.

[vpatt]

I am not really sure about the witch hazel. I did pick some to have on hand but it is not alcohol free. I will keep looking for that and do more research.

[Ophidian]

Yep, Thayers was the one I was thinking of too.

But on top of that, doesn't which hazel itself react about the same as alcohol since it's an astringent? Again, I have no *clue* here. I'm just concerned about it.

It is an astringent herb, but if the purpose of using it is to freshen up an oily scalp between washes, I think that quality is actually why it is desirable. Like facial toner, but for your scalp. I've never heard of anyone using it as an all-over rinse, just applying it to scalp directly. Given, I have not tried it, but I don't think it's astringency alone is a cause for concern unless you're dunking your head in it.

[vpatt]

I hope it might help freshen my scalp....but I haven't tried it because of the alcohol. But I bought it because after reading up on it I see that it can help itching. I have lots of itchiness from psoriasis. But I will wait for the alcohol free type to try it on my scalp.

I cannot say it's great for the psoriasis...maybe better for insect bites. I did want to say the psoriasis I'm talking about is not on the scalp.

[Ophidian]

So my thought is that if you really want to try WO, just try that and that only for a period of time. Give yourself a deadline and resist every urge to do anything extra until you have established a baseline. As a fellow experimenter I understand how hard this can be, truly, but I think it's important to step back every once in a while and plan your experimenting so that you've given something a fair shot (unless of course you start having scalp problems or something else that is serious cause for concern).

Oils are tricky with WO. I understand your logic, because I have found personally that some oils can have a cleansing effect, but this varies so much from person to person that you are equally likely to wind up with oily hair that water alone won't get out.

Water only does remove excess oil by rinsing it from the scalp and down the hair shaft. But it will not break up oils and remove them like a detergent will. Techniques like scritching, massaging, and preening will aid greatly in getting an even distribution of sebum so it's not all sitting up on your scalp while the ends get dry. Rinsing more often can also help.

I'm probably a total enabler with the experimenting but key for me has been try one thing at a time, take notes, and only start tweaking when I know what my baseline is.

What worked for me when I was starting WO was commit to 6 weeks, during which I wore it up all the time with headbands or scarves as needed. I put some oil on the last inch or so to keep the ends flexible but that was it. Later, I added in acidic rinses, some tea rinses, and scalp oiling. But starting out, there is no way to know if it will work for you unless you really give it a go.

All this, of course, applies if what you really want to do is try a WO routine. If you like the idea of mixing it up, then I think there is still a lot of benefit for some in doing WO washes in between other cleansing methods.

:soapbox:

ETA: I didn't know that scalp psoriasis was an issue for you, but having noticed that of course that's a primary concern with any routine changes too.

[vpatt]

So my thought is that if you really want to try WO, just try that and that only for a period of time. Give yourself a deadline and resist every urge to do anything extra until you have established a baseline. As a fellow experimenter I understand how hard this can be, truly, but I think it's important to step back every once in a while and plan your experimenting so that you've given something a fair shot (unless of course you start having scalp problems or something else that is serious cause for concern).

Oils are tricky with WO. I understand your logic, because I have found personally that some oils can have a cleansing effect, but this varies so much from person to person that you are equally likely to wind up with oily hair that water alone won't get out.

Water only does remove excess oil by rinsing it from the scalp and down the hair shaft. But it will not break up oils and remove them like a detergent will. Techniques like scritching, massaging, and preening will aid greatly in getting an even distribution of sebum so it's not all sitting up on your scalp while the ends get dry. Rinsing more often can also help.

I'm probably a total enabler with the experimenting but key for me has been try one thing at a time, take notes, and only start tweaking when I know what my baseline is.

What worked for me when I was starting WO was commit to 6 weeks, during which I wore it up all the time with headbands or scarves as needed. I put some oil on the last inch or so to keep the ends flexible but that was it. Later, I added in acidic rinses, some tea rinses, and scalp oiling. But starting out, there is no way to know if it will work for you unless you really give it a go.

All this, of course, applies if what you really want to do is try a WO routine. If you like the idea of mixing it up, then I think there is still a lot of benefit for some in doing WO washes in between other cleansing methods.

:soapbox:

ETA: I didn't know that scalp psoriasis was an issue for you, but having noticed that of course that's a primary concern with any routine changes too.

Oh I just edited my post to say the psoriasis is not on my scalp. After reading back over my post I realised it sounded as if I meant that.

Ophidian, you give really great advice! I know that I have gone all over the place with hair care over the last 3 years. I'm not very focused or good at keeping notes. That has worked for me better for other methods. But WO takes longer to figure out. One thing that hinders me is wearing some type of covering or hat. I'm not comfortable with at except for toboggons and that will only work during cold weather and not during church. Maybe I can try just keeping it up. That seemed to work for a while, but then it seemed as if my scalp was just overwhelmed by grease. I will have to re-read your advice and think about where I'm going with this. Please ignore me flittering about like a moth.

[Ophidian]

Oh I just edited my post to say the psoriasis is not on my scalp. After reading back over my post I realised it sounded as if I meant that.

Ophidian, you give really great advice! I know that I have gone all over the place with hair care over the last 3 years. I'm not very focused or good at keeping notes. That has worked for me better for other methods. But WO takes longer to figure out. One thing that hinders me is wearing some type of covering or hat. I'm not comfortable with at except for toboggons and that will only work during cold weather and not during church. Maybe I can try just keeping it up. That seemed to work for a while, but then it seemed as if my scalp was just overwhelmed by grease. I will have to re-read your advice and think about where I'm going with this. Please ignore me flittering about like a moth.

Vpatt I completely relate :). There is so much to try! If you are having fun experimenting then there's no reason not to play around. My thoughts just related specifically to your question about whether or not you could make WO work. In my experience with it I just really had to buckle down and give it a go. Good luck with whatever you try, and keep sharing, that's how we all learn :flower:

[vpatt]

Im trying again. Trying to make it to the end of April.....i'll let you know if I make it, lol. I'm on day 9. I'm having Wi-Fi issues.

[pili]

Interesting thread and something to think about for the future. Right now I use shampoo bars, and my hair lives oiling, but WO has always had an appeal. My scalp just doesn't produce any sebum. I've gone without washing for over a month without getting any grease. I am thinking of using soaproot (grows in my yard) to do a wash. It's supposed to work like Soapnuts.

[proo]

Has anyone tried rinsing with matcha tea?

[Ophidian]

Im trying again. Trying to make it to the end of April.....i'll let you know if I make it, lol. I'm on day 9. I'm having Wi-Fi issues.

Good luck! Keep us posted :)

[Ophidian]

Interesting thread and something to think about for the future. Right now I use shampoo bars, and my hair lives oiling, but WO has always had an appeal. My scalp just doesn't produce any sebum. I've gone without washing for over a month without getting any grease. I am thinking of using soaproot (grows in my yard) to do a wash. It's supposed to work like Soapnuts.

Is soaproot the same thing as soapwort? I'm having a lot of fun experimenting with herb washes right now: I've tried yucca and soapnut as cleansers and hibiscus, marshmallow, and catnip as conditioners so far. I'll be mixing up some shikakai soon to use this evening. There are a lot of great recipes out there but I've decided to try the cleansing herbs each on their own at first to see what results I get. I'm feeling the allure of poo bars too but one thing at a time :). I do love WO, I just find that a) I really love making concoctions and b) my hair is not super oily but I like some extra cleansing from time to time I still do a lot of WO washes in between though.

Proo, I haven't tried matcha specifically, but I have tried green tea rinses.

[Nymphe]

Has anyone tried rinsing with matcha tea?

That is on my list of things to try. Guava Leaf Tea was super conditioning for my hair and reduced shedding. I am trying Rooibos Tea as a leave-in, not as conditioning as the Guava Leaf, but it reduces shedding even better.

[pili]

Is soaproot the same thing as soapwort? I'm having a lot of fun experimenting with herb washes right now: I've tried yucca and soapnut as cleansers and hibiscus, marshmallow, and catnip as conditioners so far. I'll be mixing up some shikakai soon to use this evening. There are a lot of great recipes out there but I've decided to try the cleansing herbs each on their own at first to see what results I get. I'm feeling the allure of poo bars too but one thing at a time :). I do love WO, I just find that a) I really love making concoctions and b) my hair is not super oily but I like some extra cleansing from time to time I still do a lot of WO washes in between though.

Proo, I haven't tried matcha specifically, but I have tried green tea rinses.
They are not the same. This is California Soaproot, native to here or Amole Lily. I think soapworts is European in origin.

I want to make my own concoctions, I went the shampoo bar route because I was impatient to move away from synthetic chemicals as my daughter was having some horrible reactions to regular shampoos. Now that I've gone down the Natural hair care rabbit hole, I just find myself getting deeper and deeper.

[Ophidian]

They are not the same. This is California Soaproot, native to here or Amole Lily. I think soapworts is European in origin.

I want to make my own concoctions, I went the shampoo bar route because I was impatient to move away from synthetic chemicals as my daughter was having some horrible reactions to regular shampoos. Now that I've gone down the Natural hair care rabbit hole, I just find myself getting deeper and deeper.

Oh neat! I'm on the east coast and haven't heard of that plant before now. And yes, it is quite a rabbit hole isn't it :).

[pili]

Oh neat! I'm on the east coast and haven't heard of that plant before now. And yes, it is quite a rabbit hole isn't it :).

Neither had I, until my landlord and neighbor pointed them out while showing us around the homestead we live on.

[Ophidian]

Update:

The last shampoo wash I did was on the first Sunday of this month (2 tsp Shea Moisture fragrance free diluted in 1 cup nettle tea). Since then I have done exclusively WO and herb washes. I got excited about a few recipes I found in the beginning but have since decided to try one cleansing herb at a time so I can get a better sense of the effects. So far I've tried:

Dianyla's Hair Gravy (recipe modified to include yucca instead of soapwort and marshmallow for conditioning): 1-2 Tbsp yucca root pieces, 1 Tbsp willow bark, 1 Tbsp marshmallow root, 2 Tbsp arrowroot powder. Massaged in well and rinsed after about 10 minutes. Have tried this twice--once I applied to it to dry hair and once to wet. Good results but seemed to leave some residue in the length, or I didn't work it in well enough for it to be especially cleansing. Scalp was very clean.

Soapnut/aritha: 1 Tbsp shell pieces soaked overnight in 1 cup water. I applied to dry hair, and left in 5 minutes. I found this to be very cleansing (almost clarifying) on the length but my scalp did not get as clean as I would have liked. Followed with a conditioning rinse (marshmallow, hibiscus, catnip). Next time I might oil beforehand and/or dilute the liquid a bit more and spend more time massaging the soapnut liquid into my scalp before applying to the length.

Shikakai: 1 Tbsp shikakai powder stirred into 3 cups boiling water. When comfortably warm, I poured this over dry hair until the sediment at the bottom of the jar remained at then used this to gently exfoliate scalp. Left on for 10 minutes and rinsed. Scalp is super happy. Length has some weight to it, almost like WO but a little more cleansing. If I wanted a more clarifying wash I might use more shikakai or less water. I've heard that the mud is more cleansing than the tea but I'm not crazy about the idea of trying to get it all out afterwards.

Next I'd like to try yucca on its own. I really liked the shikakai and aritha as gently cleansing/conditioning and clarifying washes respectively, but I think yucca might be cheaper and easier to find locally. Also might try rye flour for the same reason, but the prospect of getting out all the bits scares me a little... supposed I could use it like the shikakai though, with strained liquid on the length and the soaked flour as a scalp scrub. Actually liked this technique quite a bit.

Anyway! I'm keeping track of all this elsewhere for my own benefit but thought I'd share here too.

[vpatt]

I am getting ready to rinse my hair. I don't like scalp smell. Will I make it to the end of April? who knows, lol.

I feel so isolated with my internet going in and out. And using my fone stinks.

[- Lizzy -]

I just tried this for the first time with some modifications because since I hadn't done ever I didn't know how my hair would react. Instead of just water which I was initially going to do, I added a little bit of baking soda to the scalp. Also afterward I sprayed with detangler (I know that may defeat the whole thing but my hair felt weird so I thought I should) and combed through while wet. Now I'm air drying it and we will see how it goes. My hair can really range in its dryness or oiliness so its hard to gauge what is right for me.

[Chant]

I think I belong here. I've been doing WO for well over a month now with a little castor oil on my scalp every few days for growth. Unfortunately (fortunately?) I exercise hard and sweat a lot when I exercise, to the point WO wasn't sufficing to get my scalp as clean as I wanted it, and I was dealing with itching. So now I've added the occasional CO wash with a sulfate and cone free conditioner. MUCH better. I always rinse after a hard workout, but I only use cool water for those rinses. Doesn't disturb the sebum but gets rid of the salt and sweat. I do a hot water WO wash twice per week, and so far I've only done two CO washes in that time. My hair is still short enough that it's not a challenge to get the sebum to the ends. The CO also helps because after a while, my hair starts feeling too waxy, maybe because it's short, so there's a lot more sebum on the strands than there would be if there was more hair to take it all. It's hard to tell how it will shake out when I get more length. At least for now, it's working out. I don't have to wet my hair in the mornings anymore to get it looking decent. It just stays decent. If it gets to sticking up a little, it's very controllable to finger comb it into a better position, and my cowlick is tamed for the first time ever. I like that part of it all a lot.

[Ophidian]

@vpatt I'm not crazy about scalp smell either, which is partially why I'm not 100% WO anymore. I never did find a great way to deal with that. It wasn't terrible, it just smelled like hair all the time.

@Lizzy Welcome! Let us know how your experiment goes. There's a lot of info on the WO thread too if you're interested. I did that pretty strictly for 7 months and then decided to branch out a little with cleansing methods though I still do a lot of WO washes and use the techniques even when I'm washing with something else.

@Chant Hey there! You sound like me :). My hair is much more well-behaved with WO overall, I just wanted a little more cleansing from time to time while maintaining light sebum coverage. I've been liking the herbs lately because then I can get my scalp clean without stripping my hair.

[- Lizzy -]

So its later and so far my hair seems pretty good :)
Its not as bright in color as it usually is after a wash but thats understandable since I didn't really strip the amount of oil I usually do.
I think the baking soda is what will work for a while and we will see how my hair looks after a few days. I normally wash every 3-6 days depending on how my hair looks.

I want to say for those hesitating because they think their hair won't feel clean I can tell you mine defiantly feels clean :D Also my hair feels soft

[pili]

So its later and so far my hair seems pretty good :)
Its not as bright in color as it usually is after a wash but thats understandable since I didn't really strip the amount of oil I usually do.
I think the baking soda is what will work for a while and we will see how my hair looks after a few days. I normally wash every 3-6 days depending on how my hair looks.

I want to say for those hesitating because they think their hair won't feel clean I can tell you mine defiantly feels clean :D Also my hair feels soft

I'd be careful with baking soda, make sure you are using an acidic rinse to counteract the alkalinity.

[Ophidian]

I'd be careful with baking soda, make sure you are using an acidic rinse to counteract the alkalinity.

Agree. Most people that use it here seem to find it might work for them as a clarifying wash but is too much for regular use. I tried it once a while ago and Einstein hair ensued, so I have not used it since especially after reading up on it. That said, the baking soda and vinegar no-poo thing still seems to be alive and well on the internet at large so it does seem to work for some people, but the acidic rinse after the strong alkalinity of baking soda seems very important to avoid frying your hair. I have still seen too many reports of hair being fried after doing this for a while, even with the vinegar rinse, to feel super comfortable using it myself. Just a gentle caution.

ETA: here's a thread that talks about it. Some differing viewpoints but mostly of the don't use/use sparingly variety

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=140926&page=7

[- Lizzy -]

Thank you for the advice :)

[vpatt]

I think I am back to the same place I was a month or two ago.....lol, my own fault for not sticking with it.

The first week is not so bad. Now heading into the second week I have more grease/oil. And it is ok up, but icky looking down. Smells like oily hair that needs washing. This may be due to how we grow up thinking about hair/cleaness/bathing and such. I am right at this moment having more shed than I was. I do not think it likely that it is from WO at only 1.5-2 weeks. I will watch this for one to two weeks and then I may start using my PuraD'or shampoo. I would like to stop it if it gets worse or does not show signs of stopping. Other than that I still want to see if I can make it to the end of March.

I thought at first that this method might encourage more waves for me, but now I'm not sure. Most days and nights I French braid due to the oil. And then at least once a day I finger comb, use the TT and then the BBB. So I don't think it is helpful for my waves. But it also could be less wavy due to more growth.

I think I might oil the very ends of my hair during this time, but no scalp oiling after my " Great Coconut Oil Fiasco " last month, lol. Which was just me applying coconut oil to scalp and all my hair. You may ask why, I have asked that myself!! I think I thought it would be healthy.

I meant the end of April not March. And I meant if my shedding continues that I will stop W/O so that I can use my Pura Dor shampoo.

[Chant]

Ophidian I'll be curious to hear the results of your various herbal experiments. The CO wash I'm using is mostly herbal and hasn't seemed to strip my hair too much. It definitely takes away some of the sebum but not all of it. My hair still feels a little waxy after it dries, not in a bad way, just different from what I was used to with shampooing.

[- Lizzy -]

UPDATE: So its been maybe 2 days since washing (Wow I cant even keep track of the time ;D) and my scalp doesn't seem greasy AT ALL! Normally my hair will start to get oily around the 3rd day and then get a little worse until I wash it. Tomorrow I will see how my hair is and report back. I also must say my hair is really soft! I did use a tiny bit of detangler after washing so I don't know if that contributed. I have been brushing it a bit more to distribute the oil (I normally don't brush a whole lot) as well. Things are pretty good!

[Ophidian]

That's great @Lizzy! My hair gets really soft when I WO wash event if it's just between other methods.

@chant I posted an update (a page back I think) with some specifics. To wash I use sulfate-free shampoo diluted down quite a bit if I feel like I need it. Last one was beginning of the month so I'm thinking that might end up being a monthly thing. In between I've been doing either WO washes or herbs. So far I've tried aritha/soapnut tea (liked it, very cleansing), shikakai (loved it!), an herbal "hair gravy" recipe from user Dianyla (liked it but I've decided to try herbs one at a time to see what does what). Last wash I tried rye flour, which seems promising but I wasn't crazy about how tricky it was to wash out (probably should have run it through a tea strainer first). My hair also feels a bit tangly. Next wash I'm going to do the Shikakai again, and if it seems like the results are consistent I may have found a favorite.

[Chant]

That's great @Lizzy! My hair gets really soft when I WO wash event if it's just between other methods.

@chant I posted an update (a page back I think) with some specifics. To wash I use sulfate-free shampoo diluted down quite a bit if I feel like I need it. Last one was beginning of the month so I'm thinking that might end up being a monthly thing. In between I've been doing either WO washes or herbs. So far I've tried aritha/soapnut tea (liked it, very cleansing), shikakai (loved it!), an herbal "hair gravy" recipe from user Dianyla (liked it but I've decided to try herbs one at a time to see what does what). Last wash I tried rye flour, which seems promising but I wasn't crazy about how tricky it was to wash out (probably should have run it through a tea strainer first). My hair also feels a bit tangly. Next wash I'm going to do the Shikakai again, and if it seems like the results are consistent I may have found a favorite.

I have heard great things about shikakai. I think if I decide to go an herbal route, that is high on the list of things to try. I'm a big proponent of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," so if that does turn out to be what works great for you, it sounds like sticking with it will be the best bet.

[Ophidian]

I have heard great things about shikakai. I think if I decide to go an herbal route, that is high on the list of things to try. I'm a big proponent of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," so if that does turn out to be what works great for you, it sounds like sticking with it will be the best bet.

Yeah, I've been having fun experimenting lately but the goal is to find something that has a bit oomph than WO but still gives me that level of manageability for regular washes. I'm excited to use shikakai again. I used 1 Tbsp of the powder in 3 cups of water, using the tea to wash and the sediment at the bottom of the jar for a gentle scalp scrub. I did not have a problem rinsing the herbs out this way. I have amla as well, which I could add in for extra conditioning, or aritha for extra cleansing.

[- Lizzy -]

Washed today because things were getting greasy. I tried diluting baking soda in water (So I could pour it over my head and so I could stay a bit truer to the water only method) and then diluting vinager in water. My hair is still wet so I don't know how it will look but it still feels a bit oily. I applied olive oil to my ends before washing because they were a bit frizzy (Last time I did grape seed oil). Im wondering, is it ok to wash your hair more often when doing water mostly/hybrid wo, and still get benefits (Because you aren't really stripping all the oil)?

[- Lizzy -]

Update: So after my hair dried, the oil still remained (Mostly through the ends) and made it look really bad. I know it was the doing of the olive oil so I just washed it again with diluted castile soap. To me it sounds like im doing more of a "No poo" than a water only thing but I hope as I try for the next few weeks I can find if just water would work for me or not (So far it hasn't)

[Chant]

In my experience with WO, the scalp needs a chance to balance itself and adjust to the fact that it's not having oil stripped away. This adjustment period can last anywhere from 2-6 weeks, from what I've read, depending on how active your glands are. Even just with WO, it's best to stretch the time between washes as much as you can. You can also do cooler rinses that don't mess with the oil distribution but take out dust or any sweat. Also in my experience, baking soda is incredibly drying and caustic on the scalp, even well diluted. It could be driving your oil production into overdrive. And how is your water quality? Hard water makes any no-poo, WO, or mostly WO routine less successful.

[Ophidian]

Agree with Chant--any low-poo/no-poo routine that I've ever heard of tends to have an adjustment period while your scalp figures out what's up.

Also, I know that the term "no-poo" is often associated with baking soda+vinegar, but I think it's a pretty huge umbrella term that also covers things like herb washing of various kinds, rye flour washing, clay washing, etc. If you are wanting to try out a no-poo routine these things might offer more cleaning than WO but not be quite as harsh as baking soda. They all take some tweaking to get right in my experience, but if you like that sort of thing it can be fun. There is also low-poo, which I am led to believe can mean switching to sulfate-free shampoo if you are currently using sulfates, or could also mean diluting your shampoo down a bit to make it more mild. You may have specific reasons for wanting to try baking soda+vinegar specifically, but thought I'd throw out there that there are many ways to try no-poo!

I did WO for months, then decided to go back to occasional sulfate-free shampooing, which felt great the first few times and then my scalp freaked out. So I started using the mildest fragrance-free shampoo I could find diluted down, which worked pretty well, but I was still having scalp problems (flakes around hairline). The last time I used shampoo was early March. Since then I've been using herbs or WO exclusively to wash (mostly Indian herbs, some Western). I also tried rye and liked it.

I guess terminology is only helpful here to the extent that it helps us get on the same page with what we're doing though, and I am not an expert by any means. I started the thread under the title water-mostly/hybrid WO because I had been WO for months and wanted to branch out into other no-poo/low-poo options interspersed with water-only. I noticed that there were threads for WO and SO/NW and CO etc etc but nothing current for people to discuss no/low-poo routines other than a few pretty quiet threads in recipes and herbal haircare. Writing this, I realize that maybe I could have just called this something like the no poo thread and kept it simple :doh:

[pili]

Yeah, I'm using shampoo bars right now, and I love it! However, I'm also looking to branch out into herbal rinses, maybe even stretching washes or shampooing past a week. I think this a great thread idea. The shampoo bar thread is gigantic, and my interest are a bit more diverse than just shampoo bars.

[vpatt]

Heading into week 3. Not much change from my post 4 days ago. Except maybe it feels and looks a tiny bit better. Not quite as greasy looking, but not good enough to wear down. I do like the soft feel and I'm not really noticing the smell as much....maybe I'm getting more used to it. I have sprayed it a couple of times with my spray. Water, lavender, peppermint, sandalwood and a tiny bit of conditioner. This is only on the length and ends to help dampen it to encourage waves and because I like the smell. I am water rinsing twice a week right now and a couple of times I've put olive oil on the tips. The ends still look a tiny bit dry, I guess the scalp oil has not reached the ends yet.

I'm still watching the shed to see if I need to deal with that. I'm really hoping I can make it to my goal date of April 1 so I have a better picture of what I think of water only.

[- Lizzy -]

Even after washing with mostly water and some diluted castile soap, I have this olive oil in my hair. Definitely think it was to heavy of an oil for just water/diluted only (At least for me). I don't really know what to do in terms of the next few days. I would prefer not to have oily ends since it is just day one after washing, but I will leave it for as long as I can. I am going to try to not do baking soda anymore because my ends can get frizzy from old damage and I don't think it needs to dry out any more. Until I do this for a few weeks I don't know how my hair is going to react with it. Each wash im kind of just going by how it feels not really a routine. Hopefully I can fall into a routine sometime.

[Ophidian]

Heading into week 3. Not much change from my post 4 days ago. Except maybe it feels and looks a tiny bit better. Not quite as greasy looking, but not good enough to wear down. I do like the soft feel and I'm not really noticing the smell as much....maybe I'm getting more used to it. I have sprayed it a couple of times with my spray. Water, lavender, peppermint, sandalwood and a tiny bit of conditioner. This is only on the length and ends to help dampen it to encourage waves and because I like the smell. I am water rinsing twice a week right now and a couple of times I've put olive oil on the tips. The ends still look a tiny bit dry, I guess the scalp oil has not reached the ends yet.

I'm still watching the shed to see if I need to deal with that. I'm really hoping I can make it to my goal date of April 1 so I have a better picture of what I think of water only.

Sounds great vpatt! After ages of washing (various methods) once a week, I switched to twice a week and my scalp is doing great. That seems to be my happy medium too.

[Ophidian]

Even after washing with mostly water and some diluted castile soap, I have this olive oil in my hair. Definitely think it was to heavy of an oil for just water/diluted only (At least for me). I don't really know what to do in terms of the next few days. I would prefer not to have oily ends since it is just day one after washing, but I will leave it for as long as I can. I am going to try to not do baking soda anymore because my ends can get frizzy from old damage and I don't think it needs to dry out any more. Until I do this for a few weeks I don't know how my hair is going to react with it. Each wash im kind of just going by how it feels not really a routine. Hopefully I can fall into a routine sometime.

Sometimes it takes some experimenting to find a routine that really suits you :flower:. Since the oil is on your ends instead of your scalp, my thinking it that if you are able to put your hair up and let the oil soak in for a few days the problem will likely resolve itself and your ends might even benefit from it if you have some damage. If you can't stand it, maybe try conditioner to wash it out? Many people seem to have great luck removing heavy oilings with conditioner and that would be pretty mild. I do find that olive is on the heavier side, but different oils do seem to behave differently for different people so some trial and error is inevitable. Good luck!

[vpatt]

Sounds great vpatt! After ages of washing (various methods) once a week, I switched to twice a week and my scalp is doing great. That seems to be my happy medium too.

I may be premature, but I don't seem to have shed as much today. So I'm hoping it's about over. But I know not to count my chickens. So we will see. I did maybe put a bit too much olive oil on the ends of my hair this evening. But I'm hoping that will soak in. The ends of my hair have a dry look a lot of the time no matter the washing method. I think it may be a combination of dryness, taper from the pixie and I do have a few splits. Also, my hair is odd.....it has a bit of wave and when combed or brushed the ends always tend to look dry. But if I don't comb or brush my hair just looks so messy that I feel compelled to get the TT out.

As to the shedding.....I've had one major shed since starting to grow my hair and then one that was less but lasted four months. So I'm going to use the hair growth shampoo if I think it is shedding more than average. But that just gives me the chance to experiment more, lol.

[vpatt]

So I still think my shed is over BUT, I put that olive oil on the ends of my hair last night and today they look even drier. How can that be?

[Reyn127]

This is a very interesting thread. I haven't used shampoo or conditioner in 9 months (wow, has it really been that long??), but I haven't been WO either. I've tried herb rinses (didn't work for me), maybe a month of WO in the beginning, experimented with eggs (which I like fairly well), did a few baking soda/vinegar washes just because I couldn't stand how gross my hair was at the time.... But lately I've really settled on rye flour washes. I've been doing that happily for the past few months, with an egg wash every once in a while when my hair really needs to get clean but I don't have the time to get all the rye flour out of my hair.

But here I am, I haven't done a rye flour or egg wash in 11 days, only a few water rinses. Normally I wash my hair every 5-7 days and try not to get my scalp wet in between. But I was travelling last week and just didn't feel like making a hassle out of keeping my hair out of the way, so I decided to just rinse it. That was day 3 or 4, and it was just beginning to look not freshly washed, but not quite dirty. Day 6 after my last rye flour wash it was a little greasy, so I did a full on WO wash, preening my scalp all over until I could feel the oils rinsed away. And it actually worked! My hair looked and felt clean the next day, I was a little shocked because WO had never worked for me before.

I did another WO wash this morning to experiment and see if it is just the water where I was visiting. I have no idea if the water where I live is hard/soft/whatever, but I'm sure it's different water than what was where I was last week. So I am currently just waiting for my hair to dry all the way, and I'll see how it looks today. I would be pretty excited to start doing more WO washes if I can!

[Ophidian]

Hi Reyn!

I did WO for 7 months and still like in in between other kinds of washes especially if they more cleansing. Working out a good preening method in the shower was key for me. Also key was realizing that my scalp does better with twice weekly washes. It also really likes herb powders or rye flour for gentle exfoliating around my hairline where I need it. My hair does tend to get weighed down if I go overboard with oils on these methods. Now that I've figured out what my scalp likes, I'd like to figure out how to get the length really clean occasionally. It's actually more happy with a thin layer of oils (natural or added), but occasionally needs clarifying. The closest I've gotten was with soapnut liquid (actually I think this worked pretty well and I just didn't foam it up enough). I'm not opposed to using dilute shampoo from time to time but I like having options. I over oiled a few days ago so tomorrow I'm trying a wash with aritha/soapnut, shikakai, and amla. I'm using arrowroot powder to thicken it so I can work it in well and leave it on for a while. If that doesn't work, I'll try soapnut foam on its own again.

I have not tried egg yet. The smell worries me. I heard someone say that if you use only the yolk and remove the membrane around it it's not so bad. Do you find it to be an issue?

[Ophidian]

So I still think my shed is over BUT, I put that olive oil on the ends of my hair last night and today they look even drier. How can that be?

Hmmm.... I find that if my ends feel dry, it helps to spray them with water and then put the oil on the seal in the moisture. The only oil that makes my ends feel noticeably better (and not just more oily) on dry hair is unrefined coconut.

[Reyn127]

Ophidian, the smell thing with the egg is actually a huge thing for me. I actually can't eat chicken eggs because they make my stomach upset! Even the smell of them cooking is too much for me sometimes. I CAN eat duck eggs but would never put them on my head because they're very expensive. But chicken eggs for my hair, I add some essential oils to cut the smell. Tea tree works pretty well all around for scent. Before I figured THAT out, I just tried my best not to breathe too deep with the eggs in my hair haha.

I have never tried washing with just yolks - I have a lot of hair and I just don't know if I could get enough volume to wash my hair using only yolks. I don't exactly want to have to use like 5 eggs to have enough "shampoo"! Already, when I wash with eggs, I use 2 and mix it in really well with 2 more parts lukewarm water, just so I have enough to cover my scalp. Though I might give yolks a try someday, we'll have to see....

[vpatt]

I have completed WEEK 3 and now I'm into week 4. On Friday I did do a very diluted CO wash as I felt my hair was extra greasy. Maybe a tablespoon of condish in 12 oz. of water. It seemed to help make it appear cleaner but now only 2 days later it is getting greasy again. So I'm not sure if that means anything. I am still aiming for the end of this month, but I have to wonder if my scalp will truly adjust. The condition did help moisturize the ends.....I added a wee bit as leave in. So I still don't see much adjustment tho I do think my hair is nice a soft.

Do those who follow water only actually have clean enough hair to wear it down?

Oh I will try wetting my hair before adding oil to the ends I only just saw this suggestion as my internet is almost nonexistent ....I'm at McDonald's right now.

[- Lizzy -]

I dont know how many days its been since my last wash (Probably 4 or more) but I think my scalp has finally adjusted some. In my last wash I did try a tea rinse (chamomile tea because it seems to make my dirty blonde hair a bit lighter and after the winter its very dark) and also just water with a lot of scritching and such. My hair didn't really appear greasy on the surface. I have been wearing my hair in a twist some so when I take it down its all wavy. I think the waves also help hide any grease. I did add a bit of oil to my ends last night because they felt dry. Now the rest of my hair is appearing not exactly greasy, but you can tell there is oil in it. I will either wash today or tomorrow because the oily looking hair isn't exactly great ;)

[vpatt]

My opinion changes everyday, lol. One day it's not so bad the next not so good. I would like to be able to wear it down in public sometimes so.....I will see what I think by the end of April. That is if I make it until then. My scalp is getting itchier....psoriasis?? I'm not sure. I do miss the yummy smell and feel of some shampoos.....but I would really like to be able to go a week without washing. And I don't know if that will ever happen. I may have to be happy with twice a week no matter which washing method I use.

I did want to add that using the conditioner on the ends left them feeling really great! So smooth and healthy feeling.
I hope that doesn't ruin my water only experiment.

[- Lizzy -]

I washed yesterday with only water (my first "Wo" wash. crazy considering im on the water only thread. every other was had incorporated something else as I was trying to adjust). I have been rolling my hair into a messy bun so I will have curly waves. They look really wonky because I was very sloppy in rolling it. For today I think I will wear it in a braid of some sort. Thats what I've done all day.

[vpatt]

Today was wash day. I rinsed with water, added a tiny bit of olive oil to the tips, rinsed again while massaging gently. I ended with a cool miracle water rinse. While massaging I also tried running the length (not ends) down the scalp trying to get more oil down there. I used a wide tooth comb to Detangle and then began the air drying. It is almost dry and it looks pretty good. Maybe I am adjusting. However, does anyone else notice that their hair can look ok one minute and then suddenly look oily? Or is it just me? Once after I washed with water my hair looked oilier after than it did before!

I do think tho that nothing so far has made my hair feel softer than CO. I wonder if I will feel this way after this experiment is complete? This Friday will complete 4 weeks, it's going quickly.

About 2 hours later my hair is completely dry. I always brush after it is dry because it always looks messy at that point. It looks clean!! I am amazed and I'm really curious as to how long before it looks greasy again.....1 day or 2 or maybe a week would be really great. We will see. I have been reading the the water only thread and just saw where someone stopped WO because they missed all the yummy smells of SnC. I can totally understand that....

[Ophidian]

Update:

I've been herb washing primarily for the last month, with some WO. No products other than my Nightblooming Panacea for the ends.

Overall, it's been amazing. Like WO on the best days. I use mostly powders as a tea, but I like being able to exfoliate with the herb grains that sink to the bottom of the jar I'm steeping them in.

I decided to do some extra conditioning and/or heavy oiling and use shampoo once a month, so I oiled overnight and then applied an SMT to everything but my scalp and left it in for a while, then rinsed and washed scalp with dilute shampoo. Followed with an herb/honey/ACV rinse. Now it's drying so will update later.

[pili]

I was on day nine of not washing/wetting. My hair was feeling amazing, but my scalp got itchy the last couple of days. So I decided to do a water mostly wash. I wet my hair thoroughly using hot water, and then I did my usual ACV rinse with EOs. I detangled in the shower with a wide tooth comb, rinsed, and wrapped up in a turbie twist for ~30 minutes. Then I scrunched some drops of sweet almond and avocado oils in my hair and am letting it air dry. So far it is looking fabulous, as good as when I was doing CG with heavy condish.

ETA: my scalp also stopped itching.

[Chant]

My hair was getting stickier and stickier while wet and starting to lose more and more volume when dry, so I did a little research and discovered that if you're a waxier sebum type rather than oilier sebum, this can happen. Even though I swore I'd never do one again, I took the advice to do an egg wash with about a tablespoon of heavy cream. This time I did egg yolk only, as it's the albumen (white) that can give you the white flakes. Egg yolk by itself will create an emulsion with the hair wax/oil and take some of it out without stripping all of it. The heavy cream was for moisture. It partially formed an emulsion in the cup so that too much yolk wouldn't bind to too much oil and dry me out. COOL water rinse only.

Results? Ah-MAZ-ing. My hair likes protein, though, so if yours doesn't, this probably isn't for you. No stickiness after rinsing. No funky smell, and I am sensitive to odors. Very shiny. Great volume. I still have sebum, just not a ton of it. No scalp itching. No flakes. It worked better than the CO wash, so I think every couple of weeks or so, or whenever I start to notice the sticky build-up, I'll do a yolk wash. Next time I'm going to try it without the cream, just to see if it's too drying. If not, I'll stick with mostly WO and the occasional egg rinse, because simpler is better, IMO. I also realized my hair is growing more than I thought. My bangs are now in my eyes. They were nowhere near that last month. This is the stage of hair growth where I have been most prone to getting it cut. MUST RESIST. :whip:

[vpatt]

My hair seems so different to me! I can feel oil at the scalp, but it still looks and feels clean. I am really excited about this and I hope it continues. I am also getting into more finger combing. My hair is very fine and even tho I don't use heat or color my ends seem to have a few splits and I'm thinking gentle finger combing may help with that. I wonder if the weak miracle water I used as a final rinse on Wednesday has anything to do the change or have I just transitioned to WO? Today I completed my 4th week. I know I washed on Wednesday and today is only Friday, but what a difference I see. Tomorrow would be my regular wash day so I'm not sure if I should wash or not. I'm thinking I will because I ha e a bit of itching....I think it may be psoriasis, but I'm not 100%.

I feel like the BBB pulls at my hair more than I like so I have started brushing with it at the scalp and only down four to six inches ...before I meet any resistance and then I will very gently brush the ends to put the oil from the brush onto the ends. I think this is less damaging. I do quick and gentle scritching once or twice a day.

[Ophidian]

That's great vpatt!!

Yeah, I found the BBB works great on the hair near my scalp but I don't like dragging it through the length. I usually preen by hand the rest of the way down unless my hair is oiled.

[vpatt]

That's great vpatt!!

Yeah, I found the BBB works great on the hair near my scalp but I don't like dragging it through the length. I usually preen by hand the rest of the way down unless my hair is oiled.

Yes, I'm really hoping that this is not just a fluke. It's very strange to feel this change.

Oh I think you told me once about using silk or satin cloth to run down the length of my hair. I may give that a try. Maybe I can find a silk blouse in a second-hand store. I don't really like preening with my fingers. The length of my hair is very shiny right now. And I think my color doesn't show shine very much.

[Reyn127]

Hello again everyone. Some fun news, WO has turned out to be working for me the past few weeks! It feels pretty good to not have to wash out flour from my hair lately, to be honest, lol.... But, it turns out that Ophidian's advice of working out a good preening routine IS key! It feels pretty good in the shower, although it is a little bit of a chore. BUT it does make a huge difference!

[vpatt]

Sorry for the double post.....why does this happen?

[vpatt]

I used my bamboo hairbrush today to scritch....being very careful not to get it tangled in my hair and I really liked it....it seemed to either collect or distribute the sebum and I could feel a difference in my hair. So maybe a wooden comb will be of good use as some people recommend. I read where some people use their fingernails......I do need to be careful not to cause to much trauma to my scalp. It could cause a psoriasis issue. I have only been using my fingertips.

I washed again yesterday and had good results again, yay! I would hope to get down to once a week washes. But if I still need twice a week then I'm no worse off and it should still be more gentle to my hair. So far so good....I will see if I have continued success.

[Nymphe]

I used aloe inner leaf gel mainly on my scalp for an hour, then washing it out vigorously with fermented rice water. I just learned that aloe can be used for gentle exfoliation, so I used it again heavily because my scalp started to itch a little and skin cell under nails due to my last use two weekends ago. My scalp is reeeeeallly clean, LOL.

[Ophidian]

I used aloe inner leaf gel mainly on my scalp for an hour, then washing it out vigorously with fermented rice water. I just learned that aloe can be used for gentle exfoliation, so I used it again heavily because my scalp started to itch a little and skin cell under nails due to my last use two weekends ago. My scalp is reeeeeallly clean, LOL.

Oh wow, I didn't know that! How do you use it--fresh gel? Just rubbed into scalp? Finding a balance between not clean enough and too clean (dry) scalp is my biggest challenge with any wash method I've tried and aloe sounds nice.

[Nymphe]

Oh wow, I didn't know that! How do you use it--fresh gel? Just rubbed into scalp? Finding a balance between not clean enough and too clean (dry) scalp is my biggest challenge with any wash method I've tried and aloe sounds nice.

I was in mood to hunt down fresh leaves, so I use the Lily of the Desert gel. They have two different versions; I picked the inner leaf one because I read the whole leaf one can be too strong for some. It has citrus acid as a preservative and Irish moss (carrageen) as a thickener.

I put about two ounces in an applicator bottle so I could get it directly on the scalp and left it, covered with a plastic cap, for about an hour. I wanted to make sure it penetrated before I used the fermented rice water to scrub it off my head.

I saw two different videos which mixed aloe (fresh and in a weak gel) with ACV and water as a pre-poo or final rinse. ACV is good for a small section of my hair that refuses to behave, but that stinky feet smell, :tbear:

[Ophidian]

Thanks! I'll have to try that.

[vpatt]

How do you make rice water? I mean I'm guessing you just strain the rice out, but do you cook the rice or just soak it? Guess I will Google that and maybe try aloe gel, too. At least at some point. I guess I should just continue with what is working for now. It's still hard for me to believe I do t have oily hair with this method.

[Nymphe]

How do you make rice water? I mean I'm guessing you just strain the rice out, but do you cook the rice or just soak it? Guess I will Google that and maybe try aloe gel, too. At least at some point. I guess I should just continue with what is working for now. It's still hard for me to believe I do t have oily hair with this method.

There is a long thread on it: Fermented Rice Water (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=134907). I just soak the rice in water, strain after an hour or two, let it fermented for about 3-4 days, and store it in the fridge until use.

[vpatt]

There is a long thread on it: Fermented Rice Water (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=134907). I just soak the rice in water, strain after an hour or two, let it fermented for about 3-4 days, and store it in the fridge until use.

Thank you so much, Nymphe. I will check out the thread as well.

[vpatt]

Oh my, my head is so itchy now that I cannot bear it. I'm thinking it is this method of washing. This has just progressed until this morning it is really bad. I am thinking it is not the psoriasis. Any suggestions? I am scritching and doing all I know to do. Is there any rinse that might help? Maybe the aloe gel? Help. Please.

My hair looks, feels and smells clean. I can't see gunk under my nails if I scratch gently either. I have seen where sometimes others complain of that. Aghh.....this is awful.

[Nymphe]

Aloe can help with many skin conditions; try it. As to the itching, I have no idea. Any dryness or tightness of the scalp? Any allergic reactions?

[pili]

It looks like two weeks is about the limit for me. I'm going to give a new shampoo bar a go. My scalp does not feel clean anymore.

[vpatt]

Aloe can help with many skin conditions; try it. As to the itching, I have no idea. Any dryness or tightness of the scalp? Any allergic reactions?

It doesn't really feel dry to me. I've always had more oil....so this is all new to me. I don't think it would be allergy....I've used my tap water forever and there is no product now except the miracle water and olive oil. And the oil is only applied to my ends. Hmmm....

But I have to say that this is day 2 hair and I think it looks WONDERFUL!! I am not really bragging about myself, but just comparing this method to others my hair looks great. I am so used to the oily look beginning by day 2 or 3 and this is amazing to me. I hope this itching will soon clear up.



Well, earlier today I made sure to scritch, massage and brush my scalp with my BBB. Now my scalp is not itching as much. I thought I was doing ok with this before, but maybe I wasn't doing it often enough or for as long as I should have......maybe there is still a transition time for this and not just for the oil production. But maybe tomorrow it will be itchy again. I feel silly now.

[vpatt]

It is getting harder to pull the brush thru my hair....due to sebum, t think. I guess I need to water wash more often until my scalp adjusts more. I thought that the adjustment was over when I stopped producing as much oil as I did before. But I see now there is more to this. Also I do feel silly that I thought I was doing enough SMP. I guess compared to what I did with other washing methods I am doing a lot. Especially if you consider that before I had to touch my hair less or it would get oily very quickly.

Just washed and then rinsed with diluted ACV and then clear water. Tho I don't see how the vinegar helps if it is rinsed out.

[Ophidian]

It looks like two weeks is about the limit for me. I'm going to give a new shampoo bar a go. My scalp does not feel clean anymore.

The main reason why I no longer do WO strictly is that my scalp is happier when it is clean and the mechanical methods used with WO were irritating after a while if I did it too much (scritching). For me WO is a great mild wash/conditioning in between other methods.

[Ophidian]

It is getting harder to pull the brush thru my hair....due to sebum, t think. I guess I need to water wash more often until my scalp adjusts more. I thought that the adjustment was over when I stopped producing as much oil as I did before. But I see now there is more to this. Also I do feel silly that I thought I was doing enough SMP. I guess compared to what I did with other washing methods I am doing a lot. Especially if you consider that before I had to touch my hair less or it would get oily very quickly.

Just washed and then rinsed with diluted ACV and then clear water. Tho I don't see how the vinegar helps if it is rinsed out.

Aloe and ACV both sound good to me. I never leave my ACV rinses in and still feel like I get some benefit. If your scalp looks clear my first thought it that maybe it might just need more frequent washing since WO is not as cleansing as using products. How often are you washing it now?

[vpatt]

Right now twice a week. I was hoping to stretch to once a week. I don't mind playing with other things like diluted shampoo.....but I wonder if it would cause the heavy oil production to start back up....I guess I can try. and see how it goes. I may try aloe, but I have the one from Wal-Mart with TEA as an ingredient. I read that it is not good to use. I can check out some other brands.

I am really liking that my hair is not producing so much oil. I hate to go back to that look. Do you think aloe will work without upping the oil production?

[Nymphe]

It is getting harder to pull the brush thru my hair....due to sebum, t think. I guess I need to water wash more often until my scalp adjusts more. I thought that the adjustment was over when I stopped producing as much oil as I did before. But I see now there is more to this. Also I do feel silly that I thought I was doing enough SMP. I guess compared to what I did with other washing methods I am doing a lot. Especially if you consider that before I had to touch my hair less or it would get oily very quickly.

Just washed and then rinsed with diluted ACV and then clear water. Tho I don't see how the vinegar helps if it is rinsed out.

Did the itching stop?

In the WO thread, I recall reading about people going through at least two adjustment periods.

[vpatt]

The itching seems better but not gone. I'm going to check the health food store for aloe gel and see how that works.

And now I am borrowing trouble, lol.. I have begun to wonder about damage from brushing so much. My ends are getting more fragile as my hair grows.

It seems odd to me that while my scalp was so very oily during the first month that I didn't have this itching.

I do appreciate the help and suggestions from this thread. I know I am whining and chatting a lot, lol.

Still working thru the water only thread and now the rice water.

[vpatt]

Erghh,,,sorry for double posting again. But I will that my water wash this morning may have left me with even less oil or sebum. Hmmmm....but it is not completely dry so we will see.

I hope someone may learn something from my rambling.

[Chant]

Really liking the fermented rice water. The sour smell didn't stay after a rinse. I liked it even more for my skin. It felt very soothing and gentle on my face, and left my skin extremely soft and smooth.

[Silverbleed]

Really liking the fermented rice water. The sour smell didn't stay after a rinse. I liked it even more for my skin. It felt very soothing and gentle on my face, and left my skin extremely soft and smooth.

I'm about to try mine, it's clearly ready for use so I'm excited to find out.

I also did a castor oil/peppermint oil/jojoba oil combo massage on my scalp, and ready to rinse. Last time I did this I was successful with only water, so I'm excited to see if it does again.

[Chant]

I'm about to try mine, it's clearly ready for use so I'm excited to find out.

I also did a castor oil/peppermint oil/jojoba oil combo massage on my scalp, and ready to rinse. Last time I did this I was successful with only water, so I'm excited to see if it does again.

I hope it works out as well for you as it did for me. My hair feels so good right now! Your castor oil mixture sounds like it would smell really good, too.

[vpatt]

This is horrible.....I think my itching is from head lice. I see something stuck to some of the white hair near my face. I'm so upset. My granddaughter caught them recently at school. I read on here that tea tree oil in olive oil will kill them. I'm hoping it won't kill my hair, too. How embarrassing!!

[pili]

This is horrible.....I think my itching is from head lice. I see something stuck to some of the white hair near my face. I'm so upset. My granddaughter caught them recently at school. I read on here that tea tree oil in olive oil will kill them. I'm hoping it won't kill my hair, too. How embarrassing!!
Coat your hair and scalp with lots of olive oil and leave it on for at least 30 min. Lice breath through their skin, so this will essentially suffocate them. Use conditioner to wash it out. It seems to work better than shampoo. Don't be embarrassed. Kids bring that stuff home all the time.

[Ophidian]

Coat your hair and scalp with lots of olive oil and leave it on for at least 30 min. Lice breath through their skin, so this will essentially suffocate them. Use conditioner to wash it out. It seems to work better than shampoo. Don't be embarrassed. Kids bring that stuff home all the time.

Yeah, I'm really shocked I haven't had to deal with them yet as I get notifications from my kid's school all the time about lice going around. Don't be embarrassed! There's a thread on this somewhere.... oh, here 'tis:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=137201

Good luck, and keep us posted!

[vpatt]

Never had this before...I've used oil and tea tree. Now salt water and ACV. I'll use oil again and leave it over night. I've read another thread. I'll check the one shared above and see what it says, too. I got the salt water thing from the Wellness Mama.

Thanks both of you!

[vpatt]

I was gonna toss the BBB's but what about freezing them? For a week or so, lol. Seems more pig hair friendly than boiling. Or should I just toss?

[Reyn127]

I am pleasantly surprised that WO has been working for me this past month+! I'm still only washing every 5-7 days on average, and my hair tends to be totally presentable through day 4 usually, which is wonderful considering I'm not using much outside help to clean my scalp. Also I don't get that greasy, thank goodness. i definitely think that trying out other methods along the way has helped my scalp adjust to WO, because before when I tried it, my hair was slowly just looking worse and worse. I think using the rye flour shampoo for a while was a good way to ease into WO. I'll probably keep that in my back pocket for a while as an alternative/deeper clean method to WO and deep preening. I don't know quite yet, but I may be compelled to check out the official WO thread on here soon....

[truepeacenik]

Hi! What dilution works for you?

Non sulphate. I'm at 4:1 water:shampoo at the most. Usually, it's closer to 8:1.

[vpatt]

I'm bummed that this lice issue happened. I had just had the best ever WO results. This morning I just washed with diluted Shea Moisture shampoo. I felt I had to do this to wash out all the olive oil, tea tree oil, salt and vinegar. I also ordered a spray from Amazon that I think is salt with some other natural ingredients. Once I've tried it I will give a review on one of our lice threads....how icky does that sound, lol?

I am just hoping it won't set me back to the beginning with WO. My hair feels ok, not to dry, but the ends needed some olive oil. Sigh...

[cindi]

I've been WO for several months now....maybe a year? I'll wash with water every 2 or 3 days, with every 2nd or 3rd "wash" being 1tbsp ACV in 2 cups of water. Maybe during the summer I'll use the occasional tea rinse (hibiscus & rose hip or some such). We use a softener on our hard well water, which helps. Seems to be working much better for me than shampoo ever did! My hair is fine and thin, so CO was never going to be a good fit for me, I don't think. At least not the times I tried it..

[cjane9]

I'm bummed that this lice issue happened. I had just had the best ever WO results. This morning I just washed with diluted Shea Moisture shampoo. I felt I had to do this to wash out all the olive oil, tea tree oil, salt and vinegar. I also ordered a spray from Amazon that I think is salt with some other natural ingredients. Once I've tried it I will give a review on one of our lice threads....how icky does that sound, lol?

I am just hoping it won't set me back to the beginning with WO. My hair feels ok, not to dry, but the ends needed some olive oil. Sigh...

I'm an elementary teacher so have been around lice a lot. After freaking out that I had lice and having a professional come over, she explained how you actually don't need all the shampoos and products, but just need to be careful with a nit comb combing them out daily. She also said that it's a good idea if you are around children who may have lice that you do a quick-comb with the nit comb at least once a week. That way if any make their way into your hair, you can comb them out before they start laying eggs. On Amazon you can buy the Nit-Free Terminator comb for $10 or you can check a drugstore. Just be sure to use a strong metal one, not one of the flimsy ones they give with the lice shampoos. Hope it works out for you!

[vpatt]

I'm an elementary teacher so have been around lice a lot. After freaking out that I had lice and having a professional come over, she explained how you actually don't need all the shampoos and products, but just need to be careful with a nit comb combing them out daily. She also said that it's a good idea if you are around children who may have lice that you do a quick-comb with the nit comb at least once a week. That way if any make their way into your hair, you can comb them out before they start laying eggs. On Amazon you can buy the Nit-Free Terminator comb for $10 or you can check a drugstore. Just be sure to use a strong metal one, not one of the flimsy ones they give with the lice shampoos. Hope it works out for you!

Thank you. I actually have someone who said she would help comb my hair. But I think it may pull lots of my hair out. If the salt doesn't work I may have to resort to the combing.

[vpatt]

Sigh, I'm getting what looks like shampoo induced oil.....it could be from the salt.....not sure. And I had just got my scalp to stop producing oil. I only used diluted Shea Moisture shampoo. Hmmm...

[Ophidian]

Sigh, I'm getting what looks like shampoo induced oil.....it could be from the salt.....not sure. And I had just got my scalp to stop producing oil. I only used diluted Shea Moisture shampoo. Hmmm...

I know it probably feels like a setback since you were really starting to see positive results with WO, but taking care of the issue at hand is definitely priority and my experience has been that once your scalp starts to adjust, a few stronger washes won't send you back to the beginning :)

[vpatt]

I know it probably feels like a setback since you were really starting to see positive results with WO, but taking care of the issue at hand is definitely priority and my experience has been that once your scalp starts to adjust, a few stronger washes won't send you back to the beginning :)

Thanks for the encouragement, Ophidian! I'm in the middle of a treatment now.


Update: I used Shea Moisture shampoo again yesterday after my salt treatment....my hair ,as you can imagine is so slippery.....BUT amazingly it is staying in a french braid very well. I slept in it over night and it was good enough I would have left it in if I hadn't been going to court. What surprises me the most is that with water only my braid wouldn't hold well at all. It seems as if sebum would hold it better in a braid. I find it very curious.

[- Lizzy -]

UPDATE: So I used very diluted shampoo and conditioner for easter because I wanted my hair to smell good. I kind of liked the use of shampoo and conditioner. I kind of miss using shampoo and conditioner because I could use oils. With W/o I cant because it does NOT wash out for me at all. I used to use oils a lot and now I cant anymore. I do love the simplicity of water only but there are negatives to it. I don't know if I should go back to shampoo or conditioner or what. Ahhh! Also I have been "Washing" my hair with water more frequently than I used to because I am tired of avoiding getting my hair wet when in the shower. I have been doing it like every 2-4 days now instead of every 3-6 days.

[vpatt]

Lizzy, definitely it is different. It's like trying to change your diet, so many go back to what they were used to. I just this week had to use shampoo and I like it, too. But I like the results I was beginning to have with WO. And shampoo definitely causes me oiliness and more frequent washing which I don't like. I also really enjoy experimenting....so I could go back to shampoo eventually, who knows? But I bet I will always be following those interesting little side trails from time to time. Do you like everything about your hair with shampoo? Did you have a reason for going WO or were you just playing around to see how it works. Yes, some shampoo and other products smell really good and I guess you could use them occasionally (maybe rarely) without problems. Another experiment, lol? Good luck with whatever you choose.

[vpatt]

I really need to moisturize my hair....after trying to get rid of my icky problem my hair is so dry....I hope I haven't ruined it. I have NEVER had dry hair.

[- Lizzy -]

Ok, so I think I am going to start trying to use oils. If it turns out bad well, then I might have to use shampoo or something. Also I used to do hair masks but haven't been able to since starting w/o. Maybe I will try to do one. I don't really know yet.

[pili]

Ok, so I think I am going to start trying to use oils. If it turns out bad well, then I might have to use shampoo or something. Also I used to do hair masks but haven't been able to since starting w/o. Maybe I will try to do one. I don't really know yet.
I use oils liberally, but I also use a natural shampoo bar. My hair does not naturally produce sebum, so oiling has made a world of difference.

[Reyn127]

@vpatt, try not to worry, your hair should be fine in the long run! There are many ways to help moisturize.

And, Lizzy, don't be afraid to give oils a try! I wouldn't really recommend them on the scalp though, if you want to use ONLY water. But I use coconut oil on my ends before pretty much every time I wash. It doesn't all rinse out, but it makes my hair feel nice.

[vpatt]

I may do another salt and or vinegar treatment for the lice. Then I will shampoo again and then I hope to be able to get back to WO. I use the Shea Moisture curl and shine with silk protein and neem oil. Do you think I will need to clarify? When I started this before I just stopped shampooing without clarifying. It didn't seem to matter that I could tell.

Haha, you can see how 'silver' my hair looks in my avatar and how brown in my signature.

[vpatt]

I will probably start back with WO tomorrow. When and if it gets back to where it was a couple of weeks ago i will be very happy. But I am already researching herbs to try some rinses in the future. Ophidian, I am going to check out places to order herbs. I'm I interested to try the recipe you posted. Not sure if it was here or the wavy wurly thread....especially interested in hibiscus.

[Reyn127]

So... for me, WO has been a bit of a struggle the past few washes. I know I've said it before, but thorough preening is a MUST! But it's also difficult, with a head full of thick, long, wet hair! I don't think I've been fully able to "get in there" and get the back of my head entirely clean the past few washes, which hasn't been that fun. I've been doing my best to give WO a far try, but I've been kind of itching for a nice rye flour shampoo wash soon. I did a WO wash a few days ago and my hair is looking and feeling better this time than the past few washes, but still not fully satisfying. I think I may have to go slightly less days between washes if I really want to do WO. (Boo! I like weekly washes lol.) If my hair doesn't get to a place where I'm entirely comfortable with it down after washing it next time, I'll probably follow it with a rye flour wash....

[Ophidian]

I will probably start back with WO tomorrow. When and if it gets back to where it was a couple of weeks ago i will be very happy. But I am already researching herbs to try some rinses in the future. Ophidian, I am going to check out places to order herbs. I'm I interested to try the recipe you posted. Not sure if it was here or the wavy wurly thread....especially interested in hibiscus.

I'll post it here for ya. It's a modification of Neoma's Purple Sludge recipe from the original Indian herb washing article. So I guess this can be Ophidian's Pink Slime :D

2 Tbsp shikakai powder
1-2 tsp amla powder
1-2 tsp methi/fenugreek powder
1 Tbsp dried hibiscus petals
1 tsp honey
1 cup water

Here's what I do:
1) pour boiling water over herbs and honey in a mason jar in the morning, shake, and let sit at room temp all day for an evening wash. The methi will thicken the wash liquid into a shampoo-like consistency.
2) strain and transfer to an applicator bottle when ready to use
3) apply to scalp and massage in well, then add some more water to the wash mix left it the bottle, shake, and use this to wet length, squeezing through to distribute
4) leave in for about 10 minutes, then rinse very well

Notes:
-I always oil at least my ends and often my scalp the night before I do this. I have used it to remove moderate oilings in the length before too with success
-I have noticed very specific positive results from Shikakai and methi. Hibiscus I use for the color and scent, amla I add because I have it but I honestly don't know how much I would miss it. Honey is very moisturizing and my hair loves it so I add that.
-Straining it is a pain, and many don't bother. I do because I'd rather deal with that than getting bits out of my hair.

Anyway, that's just my experience but I have been using this mix for about month and really like it.

[vpatt]

Thank you! Pink Slime, huh? How could I not try it, lol? I know at least one of these ingredients is supposed to help stop graying which I don't want to do. And one of them is supposed to kill head lice, lol. I don't have them all straight in my brain yet. I have used honey before with good results. I think I can get everything from Amazon, which is just too easy sometimes.

I am interested in any herbs that might encourage new growth. Faster growth would be nice, too. (;

[Ophidian]

Thank you! Pink Slime, huh? How could I not try it, lol? I know at least one of these ingredients is supposed to help stop graying which I don't want to do. And one of them is supposed to kill head lice, lol. I don't have them all straight in my brain yet. I have used honey before with good results. I think I can get everything from Amazon, which is just too easy sometimes.

I am interested in any herbs that might encourage new growth. Faster growth would be nice, too. (;

Amla has a reputation for being darkening for sure. Hibiscus is said to leave red highlights but I haven't noticed any yet, maybe it's not pronounced unless you leave it in? My hair is dark ash blond though so you may notice it on lighter hairs.

To my knowledge, Shikakai and methi do not affect color. I've heard of people substituting rose for Hibiscus. Lots to play around with :)

[vpatt]

Thanks. I also wanted to share a website that sells herbs, oils and other interesting things. I used to make soap and other body care products and I always recommended this site. It's at least fun to look around. They also have some recipes for different things.

"From Nature With Love"

[vpatt]

Ok, I washed my hair with water only yesterday. It actually took out the bit of oil like before! Yay! I am guessing because the Shea Moisture shampoo is so gentle? I am wondering if my hair feels/looks a bit limp, but it may be my imagination.

And then today, oh my! I went to my local health food store and the young woman working today actually washes her hair with water!! She told me about a spray she makes for her husband's hair that contains rose water. So, I bought some grapeseed oil from her....it is for my face. Then I came home and ordered the herbs for the Pink Slime recipe. So now I have shot my budget! I think all the herbs were 8 oz. bags so I hope they will last for a while. I won't use them all the time so they should, I hope.

[Ophidian]

Thanks for the recommendation of From Nature With Love (always on the lookout for good sources) and keep me posted on your adventures with the Pink Slime! :D

[- Lizzy -]

I have an update. So I continued doing water only for maybe 2 more weeks and just like 30 minutes ago, I used shampoo and conditioner for the first time in a few months. And it felt great! I did it because I wanted to be able to use oils and masks. Today I did vitamin E oil and jojoba oil. I used the Hask aragan oil shampoo and conditioner (Sulfate and parabon free. Also not tested on animals :face: ). I did conditioner then shampoo then conditioner again. I think I will take a break from w/o and see if my hair gets any better or worse with a new routine. W/o was great but it limited me.

[vpatt]

It seems I do have some adjustment getting back to WO. But I think it will be much quicker than before....at least it seems that way. It is a bit oily, but not too bad.

[Reyn127]

@vpatt, I'm glad to hear you're persevering! I'm also glad for you that the lice problem is all over with, that must have been a terrible pain to deal with!

I did yet another WO wash yesterday, and let my hair air dry entirely before putting it up. (I also was intending to get some texture photos, but my hair takes so darn long to dry that that didn't work out, lol.) My hair looks and feels pretty great right now! It's definitely presentable while down, which is super satisfying. I am currently happy with it, and I think I've learned a few "rules" for WO for my hair, at this point.

I think a lot of the problems I was having with an ongoing greasy appearance had somewhat to do with my hair not being able to dry fully within a certain amount of time. I don't know why this is, but I eventually made the connection that the greasiest areas remaining after washing were ending up being those that were twisted up in the middle of my buns or the center/thickest areas of my braid. My hair was also kind of keeping on a smell - just like wet, stale sweat kind of? A really gross smell of I'm being honest - thank god for more water and essential oils, there. So far this time since washing my hair yesterday, it smells fine, so I'm really hoping it's just a matter of getting it to dry out thoroughly.

I have also happily been using coconut oil on my ends still before washing, even just with water. I use quite a bit - a little over a teaspoon - but the majority rinses out for me pretty well, leaving enough to stop my ends from getting frizzy but not so much that they stick together. So that is pretty nice, too.

[vpatt]

Thanks Reyn, yes that problem seems to be over and I'm so glad. The WO has surprised me so much....I would never have thought you could have clean hair from only water. But I suspect if we took a trip in the Way Back Machine we would find many people used this method.

I wait until my hair only has only a touch of moisture left in before braiding and I have never damp bunned. I may do more bunning when my hair is longer. But I like braids more than buns....and while I like burned braids my hair is not quite long enough for that.

I'm looking forward to getting my herbs tomorrow.....hmmm.....that's an interesting comment.

[cjane9]

Hi Reyn127-- could you elaborate a bit on your oiling method? I am trying WO but find that my ends are very dry. Do you find it too intense to oil after washing, but have better results oiling before? How do both methods affect your hair? If you use a teaspoon, how do you make sure to distribute it over all your ends? Sometimes I worry I'm using too much but not getting it throughout all the ends.
Thanks!

[vpatt]

I tried my herbs.....so far so good. I have a wee bit of grit on my scalp. I was going to wait a while before trying them but my hair was ready for a wash and the herbs were here. I used the Pink Slime recipe and added lavender. I cannot smell lavender in my hair, tho. I think I may need to strain the mixture more than once. I thought I was rinsing really well but still didn't get all the grit. My hair and scalp (except for that grit) feels very clean....it is shiny and a bit slippery. Doesn't stay in French braid as well as shampoo, but better than WO. Do others have this problem with slippery hair? I don't see any sign of the herbs staining my hair.

I like my first try!!! Just trying to mention all the results...but I would say it's mostly a positive result. My biggest question now is....how long will my hair stay clean?? Should I use this every time I wash my hair or should I only try every other time as a conditioning treatment?

Edit: So, I'm happy and these are my biggest questions 1) can I get more of the grit out of the mix or out of my head? Could the grit cause a problem like clogging hair follicles? 2) will my hair stay clean as long as it does with WO?

[Reyn127]

I'll post it here for ya. It's a modification of Neoma's Purple Sludge recipe from the original Indian herb washing article. So I guess this can be Ophidian's Pink Slime :D

2 Tbsp shikakai powder
1-2 tsp amla powder
1-2 tsp methi/fenugreek powder
1 Tbsp dried hibiscus petals
1 tsp honey
1 cup water




I tried my herbs.....so far so good. I have a wee bit of grit on my scalp. I was going to wait a while before trying them but my hair was ready for a wash and the herbs were here. I used the Pink Slime recipe and added lavender. I cannot smell lavender in my hair, tho. I think I may need to strain the mixture more than once. I thought I was rinsing really well but still didn't get all the grit. My hair and scalp (except for that grit) feels very clean....it is shiny and a bit slippery. Doesn't stay in French braid as well as shampoo, but better than WO. Do others have this problem with slippery hair? I don't see any sign of the herbs staining my hair.

I like my first try!!! Just trying to mention all the results...but I would say it's mostly a positive result. My biggest question now is....how long will my hair stay clean?? Should I use this every time I wash my hair or should I only try every other time as a conditioning treatment?

Edit: So, I'm happy and these are my biggest questions 1) can I get more of the grit out of the mix or out of my head? Could the grit cause a problem like clogging hair follicles? 2) will my hair stay clean as long as it does with WO?

Ophidian and vpatt, do either of you know what the PH or effect on the hair is of any of the herbs in the so called "Pink Slime" recipe? I know fenugreek, hibiscus, and honey are all fine, but I know very little about the others and have been hesitant to try them. I'm very interested in giving it a go, but don't want to damage my hair by accident somehow....



Hi Reyn127-- could you elaborate a bit on your oiling method? I am trying WO but find that my ends are very dry. Do you find it too intense to oil after washing, but have better results oiling before? How do both methods affect your hair? If you use a teaspoon, how do you make sure to distribute it over all your ends? Sometimes I worry I'm using too much but not getting it throughout all the ends.
Thanks!

My ends are definitely somewhat dry if I don't pay a lot of attention to them regularly. There are two ways I'll usually use oil, though I will usually only do one way each time I wash because otherwise it's too much. If I'm oiling before I wash my hair, I will use an oil blend that I mixed up which is like 5/6 coconut oil, 1/5 almond oil, and some drops of various essential oils for scent. (It rinses out too much to smell so it may have been a bit of a waste, though.) I make sure my hair is completely detangled so I can spread it more evenly throughout my ends easily. I just get a glob out with my finger (or my knuckle actually because I have long nails that it gets under), melt it onto my fingertips/fingers (so it doesn't pool in my palms), and then just start to fingercomb it in. I focus the most on my very ends, really just working it in to the last few inches or so, and also slowly work it up to about collarbone length. I just kind of try to get all the oil off my hands, almost using my hair as a towel, haha. Overall I use about 2-3 globs in all my hair each time. I do use quite a bit, and it doesn't all rinse out but my hair responds well to it. Funnily enough, I think the only way I can use coconut oil without getting the crunchy-end thing is if I apply it before I wash. I definitely don't get it evenly distributed, but I try and I try not to let it bother me. Also I'll just add more if I find and area that clearly didn't get any oil.

The other way I will use oil is kind of as an actual "conditioner" as I'm in the shower. Like I said before, I will pretty much never do these two methods together, so generally my ends have nothing on them before I do this and they're pretty dry. What I'll do is dissolve a spoonful of honey into hot/warm water in a mug, add in about 4 drops of ALMOND oil, and a drop or two of essential oil for scent (this smell actually remains when I oil this way so it's more worth it!). I'll just mix that up as well as I can, and then dip and soak my ends in it. Again I focus mostly on the very ends, dipping the last few inches in a couple times before submerging further and further up. I leave my hair in there for a total of a minute or two, eventually working up to dipping my hair up to my chin, basically. Whatever is left in the mug/the excess in the hair I will just dump and/or squeeze onto my scalp. This way is honestly my preferred way, but I do it less often simply because I don't keep honey in my bathroom. Bad me, haha.

[Ophidian]

@Reyn I have no idea about the ph of my wash mix, but I do know that Shikakai and amla have both been used in parts of India for generations so I feel pretty confident about using them based on anecdotal evidence that they work and don't normally cause people's hair to fall out overnight :D. They are both fairly acidic I believe. That said, of course if you try it and have issues than listen to your hair.

@vpatt: I'm so happy you had a good experience so far :). To get out the grit, I do find it helpful to strain it twice--once through a wire strainer and then through a fine mesh tea strainer. I plan to try a muslin jelly bag because I think that might work better. It's a pain, but then the wash mix is as easy to use as shampoo. If that is too much work, you can get it out by fingercombing gently under running water, or I've heard good things about mermaid soaks/bucket rinses. To your second question, I find that my hair stays clean longer than with WO. I could go a week with my hair looking fine, but I wash twice a week because my scalp seems to prefer that. I do use this mix every time, though I'm considering either making enough for a weeks worth of washes at a time or just doing a WO wash midweek.

Now I'm wishing I'd thought of something more pleasant sounding than Pink Slime (it was a play on Neoma's Purple Sludge) :D

[vpatt]

Well, it's your recipe, I think you can change the name if you want.

This is day 3 and my hair is still very clean....just have to see what happens during the rest of the week.

In case it helps someone this is exactly what I did after following the Pink Slime (Pink Delight? ) recipe.....as mentioned above. In the shower I wet my scalp and hair and scrubbed my scalp a bit. Then, using a squeeze bottle with a pointy cap, I squirted the mix onto my scalp and gently scrubbed and massaged. I let it sit while completing my shower. Then I scrubbed a bit more and squirted some onto the length of my hair. I then rinsed quite well (I thought ) with shower water and then used my miracle water which was cool for a final rinse. I used a wide toothe comb and detangled and then wrapped it with my turbie twist. When it was dry I finger combed and then used my wooden hairbrush. Very nice results!

I did add lavender, more than I should have as I forgot what I was doing. I did not smell the lavender in my hair. I may try patchouli next time. And maybe someone else could smell the lavender, but not me.

As I said I will strain twice next time...maybe the second time with cheesecloth or this could be a reason to buy the nut milk bag I have been wanting.

Oh, I had enough left for another wash so I put it in the fridge to save.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Edit: I probably spent about $40 for the herbs. I am going to try to remember to write dates on everything to get an idea of cost per month and or year. That sounds high, but it will depend a lot on if I use it every time and if that is once or twice per week. I wonder if I would ever be able to stretch to longer than a week or if I would want to.

Oh,I meant to also say that I mixed the herbs with boiling water and then because I was in a hurry I strained them and added cool water to be able use the mix quickly. Next time I will take more time, but as far as I know there were no problems from rushing.

[cjane9]

Thanks Reyn I've only tried half-heartedly putting cocount oil on the very ends when dry, but I could imagine that your methods provide more even distribution and keep the whole bottom length softer and healthier. Looking forward to trying them out!

[Ophidian]

I did a fairly heavy oiling (it looked oily) with warmed coconut and castor (about 1 Tbsp : 1/4 tsp). Left on overnight, then washed the next day with my normal wash mix + 1 tsp aritha shell pieces. This seems to give a little extra cleansing boost.

This would probably be too much for every wash, but my goodness my hair is so soft and crazy silky and shiny.

I feel like I'm kinda hijacking the water only washing conversation with all the herby stuff. Sorry y'all. I am thinking of trying to stretch the herb washes to every Sunday and the doing a WO wash on Wednesday or Thursday though. I'll try it this week and see how it goes.

I fully intended to get in the habit of doing a deep treatment of some kind followed by a shampoo around the beginning of every month, but haven't felt like I needed to. No dryness or buildup. I am eyeing an herb mix from Henna Sooq called Sukesh Ayurveda, which looks like it would be awesome as a monthly treatment with coconut milk.

[Reyn127]

Warming the oil sounds like a good idea. A nice way to more evenly distribute coconut oil, maybe, because you could just dip your hair in? Also, I wouldn't worry too hard about hijacking the thread, it's really hard to find an active thread where alternative washing methods are discussed! Despite there being an entire forum dedicated to herbal haircare, most of the active threads there are about henna....

WO has still been treating me nicely. It honestly just keeps getting better, little bit by little bit, though I am still having some issues. Things I'm currently happy about: my hair looks nice and clean now, smells fine (yay!!!), preening is getting to be a little more routine and therefore successful. There's no weird lingering greasiness or smell, which I think is because I really made sure my hair dried fully within the day. Things I'm not exactly happy about: my hair still has a "sebum-coated" feeling to it. Like it's a little waxy/sticky feeling. It sounds gross when I put it like that, and it doesn't feel gross at all, but it's really hard to comb through sometimes! Like there is just barely any "slip" to my hair. Oiling it does help noticeably, but it's definitely not silky slippery feeling like it would be after using "normal" conditioner. It's not the worst thing ever, but it's definitely taking some adjustment. Also, I've been having a bit of dandruff which rarely happens, ever! I think the water is maybe making my scalp dry?

I've been really wanting to try a couple new, different things for my hair. I have a feeling that aloe might help with scalp dryness pretty well, and maybe also do something to cleanse out the stickiness and/or give me some slip. I also wanted to get some new oils because all I've really tried is olive, coconut, and almond oil on my hair, and my hair has responded well to all of those in different ways. So I'm excited about that, it's just a matter of going shopping for some things.

[Ophidian]

I actually did dip my ends in the oil at the end :). It didn't change the consistency that much (just a tad thinner) but it feels sooooo nice and luxurious. I also think it might help it absorb into the strands, though I usually leave it on overnight before a wash anyway which gives it time to soak in.

I had some scalp gunk issues with WO too. Scritching followed by a BBB before washing kept it under control but I never did find a way to get rid of it. It had been as issue before WO too so it wasn't a new problem, but it was definitely harder to manage it without some kind of cleanser.

I have learned recently that my scalp does better with more frequent washing (twice a week), and that I have to scritch before and then apply a tiny bit of oil to the areas that I tend to get some flakes (hairline) afterwards while my hair is still damp. This keeps it clear longer and I don't get the dryness that even water can give me (yay combination skin!) Depending on the root cause(s) there may be a variety of things you could try but this has been my experience.

Thanks for the solidarity re: alternative washing methods. That has been my experience too. I always feel like I should be posting in the recipes and herbal haircare forum, but it certainly doesn't get the traffic that mane forum does except for henna-related things like you said. I think it's nice having places to talk about a range of routines and washing methods.

[Reyn127]

"Scalp gunk" is definitely the way to put it! I was definitely having some dead skin buildup on my scalp for a week or two there while working out my preening routine. I'm starting to realize that I shouldn't go a full 7 days between washes with WO - but that every 5 days or so is about the limit. Beyond that and my scalp just doesn't get clean as easily. I do a tiny bit of scritching while in the shower, after I'm all done with my thorough preening. Much more scritching than that doesn't do much, just irritates my scalp. And I did give BBBs a good chance, and I did really love how they helped with sebum, but I think it was starting to cause noticeable breakage so I pretty much stopped with those. *sigh*

I definitely think i need something more moisturizing/nourishing for my scalp, though. I like your idea of using a tiny bit of oil, maybe I just need to use my honey/oil conditioner more regularly....

[Nymphe]

I always feel like I should be posting in the recipes and herbal haircare forum, but it certainly doesn't get the traffic that mane forum does except for henna-related things like you said. I think it's nice having places to talk about a range of routines and washing methods.

You just gave me an idea for a thread in the Herbal Haircare section.

[vpatt]

My 7 day update after using Pink Slime:

Well, on the morning of day 3 I posted that my hair was still nice and clean, but by that evening it was beginning to get oily. I let it go because I have some upper respiratory junk going on and I didn't care how bad it looked, lol. So by this morning it was kind of wretched looking. So I decided to try WO on my scalp with the herbal rinse on the length. I really love the shine from the herbs so I hope this will work for me. I wondered last week because the herbs made my hair so squeaky clean like shampoo if it would cause oil production. Maybe I can adjust the more cleansing herbs in the recipe. But maybe my scalp will do better on water only and my hair with a nice blend of herbs. Only time will tell.

The experiment continues

[Chant]

It seems like my hair has reached another turning point. The only reason I even wet it yesterday was because I had one spot in my usual cowlick sticking up to the point it refused to be tamed. I used cool water only so as not to disturb the sebum balance. It wasn't sticky like it had been getting. It just felt like wet hair. It air dried quickly and really nicely. I haven't done a scrubby wash in almost a full week, and my last CO wash was almost three weeks ago. No scalp build up. No wax or oil build up, and my hair feels soft and very manageable for the most part. That cowlick has been my bane since I was a kid. My husband says there's no odor beyond a faint fruity scent that I have started to notice when I stretch out washes. Not sure what it is, because I'm not putting anything scented in it atm. Now if the haircut will keep growing out and look better, I'll be cooking with fire. :)

[cjane9]

WO has still been treating me nicely. It honestly just keeps getting better, little bit by little bit, though I am still having some issues. Things I'm currently happy about: my hair looks nice and clean now, smells fine (yay!!!), preening is getting to be a little more routine and therefore successful. There's no weird lingering greasiness or smell, which I think is because I really made sure my hair dried fully within the day. Things I'm not exactly happy about: my hair still has a "sebum-coated" feeling to it. Like it's a little waxy/sticky feeling. It sounds gross when I put it like that, and it doesn't feel gross at all, but it's really hard to comb through sometimes! Like there is just barely any "slip" to my hair. Oiling it does help noticeably, but it's definitely not silky slippery feeling like it would be after using "normal" conditioner. It's not the worst thing ever, but it's definitely taking some adjustment. Also, I've been having a bit of dandruff which rarely happens, ever! I think the water is maybe making my scalp dry?
.

Glad it's working fairly well for you, Reyn! Interesting how you say that your hair doesn't feel gross, but just lacks slip. I've enjoyed the soft feel of my hair too, though it has definitely changed in texture from before.
Also, you said you have gotten into a routine for preening-- any tips at this point in your journey? Thanks!

[Reyn127]

Glad it's working fairly well for you, Reyn! Interesting how you say that your hair doesn't feel gross, but just lacks slip. I've enjoyed the soft feel of my hair too, though it has definitely changed in texture from before.
Also, you said you have gotten into a routine for preening-- any tips at this point in your journey? Thanks!

Really all it is is making sure that I preen every inch of my scalp, and also making sure my fingers actually get down to the skin in all the areas. It's kind of hard with a heavy wet head of hair sticking to your scalp. I like to try to get the water running directly over the part I'm preening to rinse the oil away. Usually I have to tilt my head slightly to one side so my hair falls and makes enough of a gap to slide my hand right in next to my scalp. Once my hand/fingers are in the right spot, I just go to town with a scrubbing motion, kind of like doing a really thorough shampoo of that spot, but for 2-3 times as long as you would do with shampoo, and also you have to be more thorough/deeper. I will often us both my fingers and the palm of my hand to do this for the most area coverage. But it doesn't work to just scrub my whole scalp from there, I have to insert my hand into a new place each time, or else it's like digging around, well, a thick wet glob of hair - you won't really get anywhere easily. It's pretty hard to reach some areas, so sometimes reaching in to a new spot you need to clean can take a bit of finagling and such. For me it's always the center back of my head, so I'll spend a lot of extra time there. I'll usually do each half (left+right) of my head one at a time so I can really get the water in where I'm working. Also, if I didn't pre-oil my ends, I will pretty much always rub the sebum/oil that ends up on my fingers, right on the very ends of my hair as I'm going. Otherwise I will give my fingers a quick rinse in between preening each zone. Most of the time I don't do anything to the length. I will thoroughly rinse through my face-framing layers, and sometimes the very back of my head's length, because that's the area on me that get's waxy/sticky feeling sometimes, but most of the time I am focused solely on my scalp.

[vpatt]

I wonder how this was done in the days before showers. My hair comes out easily with too much manipulation so I'm not sure I will ever be able to preen the way others do.

My hair gets too slippery to stay in a braid like it used to.....unless it has something to do with more growth. But it looks fairly clean and is soft feeling.

[vpatt]

I have had some extra shedding for a bit so I'm not sure what to do. I am thinking I will go back to the PuraD'or shampoo as it has helped with this in the past. I could try the herbs for a while, but I don't want to wait too long to get it stopped....if it is possible. This is disappointing as I have been enjoying the WO and the herbal rinse. But if I need to use a shampoo to stop this then I am thankful it can be stopped....so I will think on it. Wednesday is washday.

I have been in denial, I guess. But today it is really obvious.

[Reyn127]

Oh no, vpatt! Are you sure it's the WO that's causing the shedding and not something else? I guess it's not the best idea to experiment for too long if it's not working. But I do hope you find something that works for you and makes you happy!

[vpatt]

Reyn, thank you. I don't know what the cause is and I didn't mean to sound as if I was blaming WO. It's just that I have had this particular shampoo help me before and I feel like if the shedding continues that I will go for what has worked in the past. I will keep a close eye on the amount of shed.

I'm sorry if it seemed I was blaming WO, I didn't mean too. And you know I'm not sure I've done enough WO to suspect it as the culprit.....since I've had some interruptions since I began.

[Reyn127]

Oh, no worries vpatt. I wouldn't take it personally if WO isn't working for you! Ultimately I just want you to find a happy spot with your haircare, WHATEVER that may entail!

[Ophidian]

Well said Reyn :)

I tried cutting out my mid-week herb wash and replacing it with a WO wash and I noticed more scalp build-up and shedding. I had these things throughout the time I was exclusively WO and it never got out of control, but I do think I will stick to the twice-weekly herb washes because my scalp just seems happier that way and I feel like I shed less. I also got a muslin bag to strain my wash mix directly into the applicator bottle, which I hope will be less hassle than fussing with the tea strainer.

[vpatt]

I do not seem to have any build up. But I am not back to the place I was with WO. I hope this shedding stops and I can continue WO. I get paranoid after having a major shed. I don't really know what a normal shed for me is. I spent quite a few years with a pixie and I never noticed shedding with such short hair.

[Chant]

I do not seem to have any build up. But I am not back to the place I was with WO. I hope this shedding stops and I can continue WO. I get paranoid after having a major shed. I don't really know what a normal shed for me is. I spent quite a few years with a pixie and I never noticed shedding with such short hair.

I know exactly what you mean with this. My hair is only just now getting long enough to start to notice the shedding. It's hard to know what is normal and what isn't for me, since the smaller hairs were never very visible when shed and probably washed off my hands in the shower without my ever feeling them. One thing I have been told to do is examine the little root bulb on the end of the shed hair. If it's tiny or barely noticeable, that shed hair is from a follicle going into its dormant cycle, something normal that they all do. If the bulb is big and noticeable, and seems to have a clear "coating" on it, that hair came from an active follicle and was either pulled out by too rough handling or can be a sign something isn't right with your scalp. It's normal to see one or two of these every once in a while. If the majority of the shed hairs are like this, look into your scalp care routine.

[vpatt]

Thanx Chant. I will try looking for that. My hair is so fine I think they all seem tiny....but I will look closer to see if I can tell a difference.

Does everyone experience scalp build up? I have, well I don't know how to say it, oily hair but the oil is thin when I use shampoo (it was the same with the herbs) no matter what type of shampoo I use. But with WO the oil seems thicker and if I put my hair up the oil is not noticeable with WO. I can't hide the oil from shampoo. And I have never noticed build up on the scalp with WO. I'm curious if that is something most people have.

# I don't know if thin and thick is the best description, maybe someone else has a better way of saying it.

[vpatt]

Sorry for the double post.

[Chant]

The thicker sebum that builds up from WO washing contains wax as well as oil. Shampoo definitely strips out the wax and oil both, and when your scalp goes into oil production from being tricked into it, it produces too much oil and not enough wax. I had exactly this same experience. Your natural oil/wax balance is genetically determined, though. Some people always have more oily sebum, some more waxy. Some even have either no oil and all wax or vice versa. In my experience, when properly waxy sebum dries, not only does the hair not look oily, it has more natural body and is much more manageable. However, over time, it can turn into a "too much of a good thing" situation with buildup. I think that's why a lot of people who do WO occasionally use something else just to get rid of the excess wax. I've been able to stretch that time between washing with more to about once per month being persistent with it. I feel like it took a while for my sebum production to normalize and for my natural wax to oil balance to show itself. Now I hate the feeling of my hair if I have to clarify. It's totally flyaway and unmanageable for a day or two afterward, the way it ALWAYS used to be before I realized I didn't have to use shampoo and conditioner all the time to keep the oil at bay.

[vpatt]

Thanks again, Chant. I brushed my hair just now and counted about 30 hairs......not bad since I had just taken out my braid from Monday nite. I looked at each hair and all the bulbs seem very tiny with a few that were tinier. I will begin looking at this more often to keep an eye on it.

Chant, how often do you wash with water? When you use shampoo (once a month?) does it cause more oil production? I probably washed 3-5 times with shampoo during the past month and it really messed up my WO adjustment. I used a sulphate free shampoo and it just made my hair very oily. I had to use shampoo because of the treatments for the head lice. Eew, I hate even saying those words. Ugh.

[Chant]

It largely depends on how active I've been, but I also do two different kinds of water washes. I'll do a quick cool water scalp scrub (with fingertips, not nails) and rinse if I've been sweating a lot from exercise or yard work. This gets rid of the sweat/salt without disturbing the sebum or making my hair or scalp too dry. I do these as needed. For my hot water wash, I'm down to once per week. During five of those seven days my hair looks decent enough not to need a scarf or hat. By the end of it, it's starting to look a little dirty but not bad at the ends, so a bandana or hat does nicely. For the hot water wash, I scritch and preen pre-shower, wet my hair thoroughly, gently scrub and rub with my fingers, wash the oil/sebum from my hands with a mild soap, then repeat the process and leave it alone while I finish my shower. I find if I hit it with a cool water blast just before getting out, it seems to dry faster and not feel waxy when drying.

My once per month shampoo is Kinky-Curly Come Clean, a sulfate and cone free clarifying shampoo. I put a tiny dollop in my palm and muddle it around with water with my fingers to dilute it a little. Aside from making my hair flyaway and unruly for the first two days afterward, I haven't found that it really messes with my scalp's oil balance. Before my hair normalized to this routine, I was doing a CO wash every other week with Alikay Naturals CO Wash Me Cleansing Conditioner. It also didn't disrupt my scalp's oil production, but it did weigh my hair down just a little. I don't need it now. Also, if I have something where I need to look nice by day five or six, I mix a little cocoa powder with arrowroot and lightly dust my roots, then comb it through. It's a wonderful dry shampoo, leaves my hair smelling like chocolate, and doesn't build up or get gunky on my scalp. (Although I imagine it could if done to excess.) YMMV, though. If your scalp got really oily without sulfates, you might be one of the people whose scalp does better with them. Like others have said here, I've found it helpful to give any new treatment or product at least a 2 week trial before deciding if it works or not and not to do too many new things at once.

I would have done exactly what you did if I had to deal with lice. Take care of the problem any way necessary and then return to my old routine when I could. I'm glad you were able to get rid of them without damaging your hair. Your scalp will get back in the groove soon enough, I bet.

[vpatt]

That is all very helpful,thank you! I love LHC for this reason......so many wonderful and sharing people.

If my shedding seems to be normal (2-3 weeks, I think) then I will continue with the water washes. Maybe I will try some conditioner washes or diluted shampoo from time to time like you described after my scalp has fully tansitioned. I have never tried cool water except for a final rinse after washing and gently scrubbing with warm water. But with hot weather coming on I may find that useful, too. And also I will try washing the oil off my fingers after the first scrubbing. I do try to use warm but not too hot water as I believe hot water will increase oil production. And probably dry the ends more. Actually I will probably use the herbs instead of shampoo. Or at least part of the time. Lol, so many thoughts are running thru my mind d.

[Reyn127]

Chant, I might have to give that cool water blast a try myself! The waxiness finally kind of got to me (more details on that in a bit...), and my hair takes at least 5 hours to airdry, so anything is worth a try to me at this point, haha.

And vpatt, I'm happy to hear the shedding may have been a once-off type of thing!

I, myself, ran into a bit of a roadblock, perhaps. It is admittedly kind of gross, so if you don't want to read about my super sticky waxy buildup, then maybe don't read the rest of this?

Potential TMI zone ahead:

So yesterday I was fingercombing out my hair. It was day 4 hair, so just starting to look greasy on my scalp, but my length from about temples down to shoulder/collar bone length has been just kind of waxy feeling for the past month or so. I knew it was the sebum making its way down, but I had never had many problems with it besides it making my hair hard to detangle, and after a little bit a lingering sweaty smell to it. I solved the smell issue just by WO washing more frequently, like every 4-5 days instead of every 5-7. But yesterday, dear goodness, I don't even know what happened because this has never occurred before in the slightest. But as I was fingercombing, there was all of this sebum residue type of stuff coming off and sticking onto my fingers, and pretty much coating them with a thin layer of this sebum gunk. I had never had buildup come off on my fingers, despite fingercombing almost exclusively for over a month now! It was pretty gross but I had to inspect to figure out what was going on.

The waxy stuff barely melted at my body temperature, and seemed to also have some dust/skin/grime stuck in it which made it literally grey when I rubbed it off my fingers and balled a tiny bit up. (Ew!) But I figured I might as well try to cleanse it from my fingers so I might have a CLUE how to get it off my hair. What I figured out is that, under hot water, a large amount of it will rinse away with some rubbing, but the mainly sticky part remained in a tiny ball. To another little bit, I mixed a drop of oil into it, which did actually allow the waxiness and grossness to be rinsed away, BUT, the oil itself didn't rinse away very easily. I remember reading something about oil cleansing out waxiness which is what gave me that idea, but I realized that with WO, I would then be stuck with a super OILY head, which is just about as big a problem. So what did I do with the information that I learned nothing from? Semi panic and hop in the shower to do a wash with honey, because I have no idea why! Haha. I think I read Ophidian sometimes uses honey? I may be completely wrong, but that is what my brain told me to do so that is what I did.

Anyway, I yet have no idea if the honey wash did ANYTHING. I washed my hair, left it down to dry for a few hours, blow dried it on cool for a bit to get it mostly dry, and just left if from there. My hair definitely feels BETTER, but it always does/has after a WO wash, though apparently they haven't been entirely effective in the past so, yeah... And my hair has been up all day for work today, so I haven't had much of a chance to assess it while dry, since washing it. Though I do know my scalp is fine, despite all the weirdness with the slightly lower parts. I honestly feel like I will have to do a rye flour wash to really get this out though. Which is fine with me, especially after all this haha! I'm sure I could get away with a once-per-month rye flour wash with WO the rest of the time, because it was treating me very well for a while there.

So, yeah.... That happened! I'll keep you all updated on how this all goes over the next few washes, unless this is all way too gross.

[Chant]

Reyn127, I have read accounts of other WO-ers running into the grey, dusty wax, and pretty much unanimously the solution has seemed to be some type of clarifying wash. I have no experience with rye flour, but if it has clarifying properties, that might do the trick for you. You'll figure out over time the right schedule for you. That was why I turned to the clarifying shampoo once per month. It didn't get quite that sticky. I could tell it was on its way. Let us know how it goes! I would like to eventually work over to something completely natural and/or herbal. My hair is just so thin and fine that I have to be careful what I put on it. A lot of things that work for others don't work for me at all. The good news is you've got the waxy sebum worked down your hair like you want it, so I bet even when you clarify it won't be like starting all over again. Good luck!

[Ophidian]

Yeah, I've read about that happening too. Seems to be a build up of sebum mixed with who knows what (dust? lint?). Like chant said, some kind of clarifying wash seems necessary to get rid of it, though you have a wide range of options as to what you use. My experience has been that a diluted shampoo (or CO-wash if your scalp is up for that) once in a while doesn't wreak havoc on a WO routine if you don't mind using products once in a while. I honestly have no idea about rye, but it may be worth a go. I have put honey in all kinds of washes and rinses and even used it on its own, but for my hair anyway it has more of a moisturizing effect than a clarifying one.

One thing that is coming to mind is silverbleed's posts over in the WO thread about how jojoba oil stripped sebum from her hair. So if I was in your position what it occurs to me that I might do (if I didn't want to use shampoo or conditioner and wasn't herb washing), is to oil with jojoba (or another light oil), preen it through, rinse in warm/hot water, and then do a rye wash. The jojoba oil would remove the sebum build up (like dissolves like), and then the rye flour wash would deal with any residual oiliness. Just a thought! What you are describing is pretty common I think and shouldn't be too hard to remedy.

Let us know what you try and how it goes!

[vpatt]

So yesterday and today the shedding has slowed down. I washed today and used only water for wash and rinse and it seems to feel nice and clean. I will use the herbs from time to time when I think my scalp needs it. I also think I will add some of the herbs to my between wash spritz. The herbal mix really makes my hair shine. I may play with amounts to keep it from making my hair squeaky clean and then produce more oil.

I am puzzled by my hair having 2 sheds about 8 weeks apart.....but they were not heavy sheds.....I'll just try to take notes and keep an eye on it.

My siggie pic is not the best, but I can really see that my hair is growing! Yay!

[Ophidian]

I feel like I've been shedding more the past week or so too, my scalp seems a little crabbier than usual, and my hair has been looking a little stringy. No changes in routine, other than last week I did Sunday herb wash-Wednesday WO-Sunday herb wash instead of all herb washes. I've also been sick and stressed out so maybe that could have an effect too.

I decided to shampoo and condition in case there's any build up from the herbs and oils that might be an issue. Last time I did this was about 2 months ago I think--I find it's good for when I feel like I've had a few bad hair days in a row or my washes don't seem like they are cleaning like usual.

I used Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle shampoo (sulfate free but has a detergent that I find pretty clarifying), diluted down a bit. Then I conditioned the length with Desert Essence Coconut conditioner mixed with some honey. Drying now with some Nightblooming Panacea on the ends.

Will likely do a WO wash mid week if my hair feels stripped, and then resume my normal herb washes.

[Ophidian]

So yesterday and today the shedding has slowed down. I washed today and used only water for wash and rinse and it seems to feel nice and clean. I will use the herbs from time to time when I think my scalp needs it. I also think I will add some of the herbs to my between wash spritz. The herbal mix really makes my hair shine. I may play with amounts to keep it from making my hair squeaky clean and then produce more oil.

I am puzzled by my hair having 2 sheds about 8 weeks apart.....but they were not heavy sheds.....I'll just try to take notes and keep an eye on it.

My siggie pic is not the best, but I can really see that my hair is growing! Yay!

vpatt I like your siggy pic :)

[vpatt]

vpatt I like your siggy pic :)

Oh, thank you!
I think it is cut more evenly that it looks.....the ends are always misbehaving and look like they've been cut with giant pinking shears.

[vpatt]

Don't some people say they get more wave or curl with water only? Yesterday after WO wash I had more wave than usual. And that wave lasted thru until today, wow. I wonder if it is from WO or from hotter weather. Also, my hair seems to be drying more quickly. I wonder about that, too. I noticed it after the salt and vinegar treatments.....but it could be because of the warmer day, also.

[Nymphe]

I am still using aloe as an overnight prewash to exfoliate my scalp. So shocked at how well it is working.

[Reyn127]

Alright everyone, I am back after a wee bit of doing pretty much nothing at all to my hair for a week, haha...

I ended up doing a rye flour wash two days ago, and I think it did the trick! The waxy buildup seems to be gone from my hair. Where I was getting it on my fingers while fingercombing before, I haven't had anything transfer to and coat my fingers while combing since this rye flour wash. My hair is also no longer sticky, it actually smells GOOD, and it appears I don't have to use regular shampoo to get past this. It does seem like I may need to do a semi-regular wash that's a little more than WO. Like maybe monthly rye flour washes, which isn't a big deal. I am honestly still currently moving forward with a bit of a wary eye on my hair, but right now I'm pretty confident that the rye flour shampoo cleansed out what the water alone couldn't do.

Here's the "recipe" I used this time around, if anyone cares:

1 cup whole rye flour
1 cup +1 ounce hot water
Mix together until smooth. Let sit for 30-60 minutes. Add two drops of essential oil, stir gently to mix again. Add more water just before using, if needed. Apply to the scalp, making sure to get down to the skin. Let sit for a minute or two. Add a bit of water and scrub your scalp if you want, kind of like sudsing shampoo. Rinse thoroughly, but be aware that the majority of flakes will come loose as your hair dries.

This actually made more than I would usually need, I just wanted to make sure there was enough to get the job done. Usually about 2/3 cup of flour (and less water of course) is enough for me. And for the hot water, I usually use a kettle to get it really hot, but not so hot that there are any bubbles forming at the bottom, yet. I want my "shampoo" to not be super cold by the time I use it, if possible, but I also don't want to cook the flour with water too hot.

Anyway, it seems that that was successful, which makes me happy!

[likelikepenny]

I would love to try water only washing. my scalp is water only and has been for the past year or so. I only use ACV on it or Aloe vera occasionally and it loves it. However, my length needs conditioners to help detangling, and my ends like cones as they are very old. Any suggestions?

[proo]

Mineral oil?

[Chant]

That's great news, Reyn! I was hoping you wouldn't have to resort to anything harsher. Now you have me really wanting to try the rye flour. I've been doing rice water rinses every couple of weeks as a pre-wash treatment and have noticed my hair is a lot stronger and more elastic. (This last time I went full on sake, and it seemed to have the same effect as the slightly fermented rice water.) I wonder if rye has a similar effect. I would like something for a little scalp exfoliation now and then. Do you know if it causes issues with drain clogs?

[vpatt]

Today I washed with water only and used a dilute ACV rinse. I did not get as much wave as I did last week with only water no vinegar. So next week I will skip the vinegar and see what happens. I used vinegar cuz of itching from insect bites, I guess because of warm weather. Gnats and no seeums love me.

[Nymphe]

I would love to try water only washing. my scalp is water only and has been for the past year or so. I only use ACV on it or Aloe vera occasionally and it loves it. However, my length needs conditioners to help detangling, and my ends like cones as they are very old. Any suggestions?

I have to use oils to detangle, since I do not produce enough sebum.

[vpatt]

I would love to try water only washing. my scalp is water only and has been for the past year or so. I only use ACV on it or Aloe vera occasionally and it loves it. However, my length needs conditioners to help detangling, and my ends like cones as they are very old. Any suggestions?

Do you ever get the scalp build up that needs more than water to clean it? I was wondering if aloe vera works for that. I have not experienced that, yet. But I want to be prepared if and when I do. The rye sounds like a good option and of course I have the herbs, too.

I have hemp oil now and I'm loving it for washing my face. I may try it on my ends to baby them along. Well, I should say I'm not crazy about the smell of it so I'm trying to decide which essential oils would be best to disguise the smell. Evidently some people love the smell.

I am rethinking BBB's. I watched different videos today and watched exactly how to use them and googled which type is best for my fine hair. If I got the right info I should use a softer brush with wider spaced bristles. I have 4 cheaper brushes from Sallys. I picked out the two softer ones which were the ones I used the least and I will try again to see what I think. I will also try pinning part of my hair up out of the way.

[likelikepenny]

I have to use oils to detangle, since I do not produce enough sebum.

I produce lots of sebum, but because my hair is curly, it doesn't travel down. However it's the grey waxy type that would make detangling difficult. That's from experience trying to detangle my roots, although I'm pretty sure I would get a lot better curl definition of WO.

[likelikepenny]

Do you ever get the scalp build up that needs more than water to clean it? I was wondering if aloe vera works for that. I have not experienced that, yet. But I want to be prepared if and when I do. The rye sounds like a good option and of course I have the herbs, too.

I have hemp oil now and I'm loving it for washing my face. I may try it on my ends to baby them along. Well, I should say I'm not crazy about the smell of it so I'm trying to decide which essential oils would be best to disguise the smell. Evidently some people love the smell.

I am rethinking BBB's. I watched different videos today and watched exactly how to use them and googled which type is best for my fine hair. If I got the right info I should use a softer brush with wider spaced bristles. I have 4 cheaper brushes from Sallys. I picked out the two softer ones which were the ones I used the least and I will try again to see what I think. I will also try pinning part of my hair up out of the way.

I transitioned my scalp to WO on accident. My scalp is very oily, but is now very adjusted. The aloe definitely helped as it's PH balanced, so it shouldn't mess with sebum production. Using it too often though, results in itchy scalp for me though. Once a week was perfect with ACV rinses in between.

[mira-chan]

I am checking them out now. My scalp is oily. Do you think this will work?

* I see that Rose Mountain Herbs sells soapwort root. I don't know if that is the type you need.
Oh, I see they are out of stock, also.

It is the type you need. :) That's were I got it for my mixes. Sometimes From Nature With Love will have it too.

I recommend it in chunks, not powder. Easier to strain out for the gravy mix.

[vpatt]

It is the type you need. :) That's were I got it for my mixes. Sometimes From Nature With Love will have it too.

I recommend it in chunks, not powder. Easier to strain out for the gravy mix.

Thank you for the advice. I'm going to play with the herb mix as it was a bit too cleansing for me and caused some oil production. For now I'm using water only with vinegar rinses when I have the itchies. I have bought from From Nature With Love off and on for years. I am also curious about the aloe.

I know I flit around a lot....but I have fun.

[mira-chan]

I am checking them out now. My scalp is oily. Do you think this will work?

* I see that Rose Mountain Herbs sells soapwort root. I don't know if that is the type you need.
Oh, I see they are out of stock, also.


Thank you for the advice. I'm going to play with the herb mix as it was a bit too cleansing for me and caused some oil production. For now I'm using water only with vinegar rinses when I have the itchies. I have bought from From Nature With Love off and on for years. I am also curious about the aloe.

I know I flit around a lot....but I have fun.
Having fun is what's important. :)

I found that the herbal mix I did wasn't cleansing enough but I have the weird hard sebum (it doesn't flow down the hair, just sits at the scalp), so that may be the difference. It didn't let me do WO either cause that doesn't break it up.

[Shorty89]

I'm not sure if I count. I tend to wash my hair about once a week, and sometimes do deep treatments for that wash. But, I do use a BBB and wash with just water for other washes during the week. I do tend to scritch a bit, especially while in the shower, and sometimes use vinegar. :shrug:

[Reyn127]

I would love to try water only washing. my scalp is water only and has been for the past year or so. I only use ACV on it or Aloe vera occasionally and it loves it. However, my length needs conditioners to help detangling, and my ends like cones as they are very old. Any suggestions?

likelikepenny, I think oils on your length might help, and I know there are some conditioning herbs that add slip. I think marshmallow root, and maybe flaxseed gel might be good too? I'm not entirely sure, I need help with the detangling aspect of WO, too.


That's great news, Reyn! I was hoping you wouldn't have to resort to anything harsher. Now you have me really wanting to try the rye flour. I've been doing rice water rinses every couple of weeks as a pre-wash treatment and have noticed my hair is a lot stronger and more elastic. (This last time I went full on sake, and it seemed to have the same effect as the slightly fermented rice water.) I wonder if rye has a similar effect. I would like something for a little scalp exfoliation now and then. Do you know if it causes issues with drain clogs?

Chant, I think the rye flour would have a similar effect. If I remember correctly, I think I read somewhere that rice/oat/various flour water/shampoo mixes work somewhat similarly to each other. I would have been open to trying those other things as well, but I was oddly drawn to methods that would have been available to my ancestors (Northern Europe), where they don't have rice, or the indian herbs, haha. And once the rye worked so well, I haven't really had a reason to experiment with other things. The one big downside is getting all the flakes out, which I won't lie, is a chore. And the filtered water from rye flour never worked for me either, unfortunately. But other than that it seems to work pretty well.



I am rethinking BBB's. I watched different videos today and watched exactly how to use them and googled which type is best for my fine hair. If I got the right info I should use a softer brush with wider spaced bristles. I have 4 cheaper brushes from Sallys. I picked out the two softer ones which were the ones I used the least and I will try again to see what I think. I will also try pinning part of my hair up out of the way.

vpatt, yeah, I think Fine hair is a little more susceptible to friction damage from a rough BBB. You just have to be really sure you're not brushing over any tangles!!


I'm not sure if I count. I tend to wash my hair about once a week, and sometimes do deep treatments for that wash. But, I do use a BBB and wash with just water for other washes during the week. I do tend to scritch a bit, especially while in the shower, and sometimes use vinegar. :shrug:

Don't worry, we're not going to kick you out of the thread if your main goal isn't to achieve WO. Whatever your routine, you could likely learn something here, and the rest of us probably can from you, too!

[Reyn127]

Oh, Chant, I just realized I forgot to respond to the drain clogging factor. I don't THINK rye flour would cause issues with the drain. It's not a mineral so there wouldn't be any sort of hard sediment washing down, but there IS a fair amount of little flakes/thin sludge (why does that sound so gross, it's really not that bad) that settles to the bottom of the tub. But for me it drains down immediately, the water doesn't get so thick that it is slowed down. It's nothing that a kitchen sink could not handle, but if your shower drain has a slow drain already for some reason, I don't know exactly how it would go.

[vpatt]

I finger combed as gently and thoroughly as I could. Then I used the tangle teaser. Then I used a clip to separate my hair and I very slowly and gently used the BBB on small sections. It did seem to work much better. I know I was not as careful before, I don't think I really followed any directions before.....I know, shame on me. I will try this for a while and see if I think it is good for my hair. I probably won't do it every day. It just seems it will make my hair more oily, but maybe not.

I am not only interested in how my ancestors in the 1800 and early 1900's cared for their hair but also even further back thru history. But because a method is old does that make it better? I don't know.

I have clay powder and I wonder how it would work now. I used it a bit when my hair was shorter. I'm really just thinking of washing methods if my scalp gets gunky. I do have green powder which I know is harsher than pink. Hmmm....

[Curly276mom]

I have been making a lot of Greek yogurt lately. Whey is awesome on my scalp! It has all of the benefits of a yogurt mask. But none of the sour milk smell after. I was reading a bit, and apparently the probiotic in whey is the same as fermented rice water. I haven't tried the rice yet to say how they compare.

[vpatt]

Sooo....I already have an update on the BBB routine. I washed my hair Friday. Yesterday I did the above routine and then since I had time I did it again just now. When I went to look in the mirror I have quite a bit of oil.....to the extent that I would not want to go in public with it down. So I will braid at bedtime and see how it looks in the morning. I have a theory that some hair (like mine) does not absorb oil over nite....but the pillow does. If my hair is going to absorb this oil then it should have absorbed a significant amount by bedtime. I expect it to be just the same by then as it is now, but I would like to be wrong. For now I will go back to my usual gentle fingertip massage (very light touch) 3 or 4 times a week and then maybe use the BBB before washing. Well, I gave it shot. I'm sure I will try again in the future.

I meant to say the detangling part was a success and the BBB did not seem to snag my hair much at all. Just made my hair oily as all get out, lol.

[Nymphe]

I produce lots of sebum, but because my hair is curly, it doesn't travel down. However it's the grey waxy type that would make detangling difficult. That's from experience trying to detangle my roots, although I'm pretty sure I would get a lot better curl definition of WO.

Oil can actually help remove excess sebum; jojoba does when I use it for oil rinsing. Finding the right oils is the tricky part, which is why I buy samples from eBay.

[likelikepenny]

likelikepenny, I think oils on your length might help, and I know there are some conditioning herbs that add slip. I think marshmallow root, and maybe flaxseed gel might be good too? I'm not entirely sure, I need help with the detangling aspect of WO, too.


Awhile ago, I tried using flaxseed gel as a conditioner, it kind of works, I just felt like I needed a little more slip. I want to try making a conditioner with flaxseed gel, marshmallow root, slippery elm, and perhaps a few oils.



Oil can actually help remove excess sebum; jojoba does when I use it for oil rinsing. Finding the right oils is the tricky part, which is why I buy samples from eBay.

I don't want to remove my sebum, I just want to get it to travel down :/.

[Ophidian]

Alright everyone, I am back after a wee bit of doing pretty much nothing at all to my hair for a week, haha...

I ended up doing a rye flour wash two days ago, and I think it did the trick! The waxy buildup seems to be gone from my hair. Where I was getting it on my fingers while fingercombing before, I haven't had anything transfer to and coat my fingers while combing since this rye flour wash. My hair is also no longer sticky, it actually smells GOOD, and it appears I don't have to use regular shampoo to get past this. It does seem like I may need to do a semi-regular wash that's a little more than WO. Like maybe monthly rye flour washes, which isn't a big deal. I am honestly still currently moving forward with a bit of a wary eye on my hair, but right now I'm pretty confident that the rye flour shampoo cleansed out what the water alone couldn't do.

Here's the "recipe" I used this time around, if anyone cares:

1 cup whole rye flour
1 cup +1 ounce hot water
Mix together until smooth. Let sit for 30-60 minutes. Add two drops of essential oil, stir gently to mix again. Add more water just before using, if needed. Apply to the scalp, making sure to get down to the skin. Let sit for a minute or two. Add a bit of water and scrub your scalp if you want, kind of like sudsing shampoo. Rinse thoroughly, but be aware that the majority of flakes will come loose as your hair dries.

This actually made more than I would usually need, I just wanted to make sure there was enough to get the job done. Usually about 2/3 cup of flour (and less water of course) is enough for me. And for the hot water, I usually use a kettle to get it really hot, but not so hot that there are any bubbles forming at the bottom, yet. I want my "shampoo" to not be super cold by the time I use it, if possible, but I also don't want to cook the flour with water too hot.

Anyway, it seems that that was successful, which makes me happy!

That's great news, glad you found a solution! One thing I really like about my experiments with different washes is that I know how they work best for me and what results they tend to give. I find that I need a stronger clarifying wash every 1-2 months to remove build up or my scalp gets flakes and my length starts feeling lank. I've been using dilute sulfate-free shampoo for this. I oil fairly heavily beforehand, then squeeze it through the length repeating if needed, then follow with conditioner (though I don't think my hair really likes conditioner all that much--damp oiling and braid/bunning seems to make a bigger difference in how hydrated my ends and length feel). The rest of the time, I find that my Indian herb mix gives a lot of slip and easily washes out light oilings. WO gets my hair back to normal if it feels stripped. I am still perfecting my rye wash method, but I just did one using 3 Tbsp flour in 1/2 cup water, strained into my applicator bottle. I applied it directly to my scalp before wetting my hair, massaged it in well, then added more water to the bottle and used this to wet the length. Then I put a little honey+olive oil on the ends only and let it all sit for around 5 minutes before rinsing. Followed with an ACV rinse (4 cups water + 1 Tbsp ACV + 1 drop lavender essential oil). Still drying but it feels good and no bits in my hair. Will report back later. Feel like this might be a good basic wash if I do not oil my hair beforehand and follow with an ACV or herb rinse for slip.


likelikepenny, I think oils on your length might help, and I know there are some conditioning herbs that add slip. I think marshmallow root, and maybe flaxseed gel might be good too? I'm not entirely sure, I need help with the detangling aspect of WO, too.

Chant, I think the rye flour would have a similar effect. If I remember correctly, I think I read somewhere that rice/oat/various flour water/shampoo mixes work somewhat similarly to each other. I would have been open to trying those other things as well, but I was oddly drawn to methods that would have been available to my ancestors (Northern Europe), where they don't have rice, or the indian herbs, haha. And once the rye worked so well, I haven't really had a reason to experiment with other things. The one big downside is getting all the flakes out, which I won't lie, is a chore. And the filtered water from rye flour never worked for me either, unfortunately. But other than that it seems to work pretty well.

Don't worry, we're not going to kick you out of the thread if your main goal isn't to achieve WO. Whatever your routine, you could likely learn something here, and the rest of us probably can from you, too!

Marshmallow, slippery elm, and fenugreek/methi (and I'm sure there are others that I don't know about) all get "slimy" if you let them soak for a while and give nice slip. Hibiscus flowers too, to a somewhat lesser extent. I've been curious about flaxseed gel for this purpose too but haven't tried it, only rinses. Will have to do more research :)

I was originally more drawn to Western herbs for hair care for a similar reason that you describe. Then I tried Indian herbs and liked the results so much that I started experimenting until I perfected a wash mix that consistently worked for me. I do love it, but I am still drawn to things that are and traditionally have been more readily available in my particular corner of the world. I'm hoping that I can get some mileage out of the strained/sifted rye gravy (realizing that I prefer this consistency with herbs too over a tea or a thick mud).

And welcome Shorty89! I couldn't have said it better, we've all got something to learn from each other.



...I am not only interested in how my ancestors in the 1800 and early 1900's cared for their hair but also even further back thru history. But because a method is old does that make it better? I don't know....
I don't think that older automatically equals better, but if it is something that has a long history of successful use even if it is somewhat anecdotal I do tend find that compelling. I enjoy the experimenting, and I like feeling self-sufficient--like hey! I can wash my hair with herbs or flour or honey, I don't need to buy product x or y. I can if I want to, but I can also practice self-care in a way that is creative and fun for me.


Oil can actually help remove excess sebum; jojoba does when I use it for oil rinsing. Finding the right oils is the tricky part, which is why I buy samples from eBay.
Nightblooming offers a ton of different oils in sample sizes too. Her etsy store seems to be on hiatus, but hopefully not for too long...

[Ophidian]

...I don't want to remove my sebum, I just want to get it to travel down :/.

Have you tried preening? I like to do it under running water in the shower more than on dry hair. I also keep my ends oiled pretty much constantly since I haven't trimmed in over a year and I don't plan to any more than necessary in the future.

[mira-chan]

Nightblooming offers a ton of different oils in sample sizes too. Her etsy store seems to be on hiatus, but hopefully not for too long...
The store will be back after a week, vacation break. We want a ...mostly... sane Nightshade. :p

likelikepenny I also had trouble with sebum moving down. My sebum is more solid than "normal" so it doesn't flow as well. Scalp massages with a little bit of oil do help it move down a bit if you have a similar issue.

[Ophidian]

The store will be back after a week, vacation break. We want a ...mostly... sane Nightshade. :p ...


Haha! That we do :D

[Ophidian]

Shamelessly cross-posting from the wavy and wurly thread here, but here are the results from my rye wash:
https://s30.postimg.org/c9t4f7fyl/5_28_Rye_Flour_Wash.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/c9t4f7fyl/)
I'm very happy. Shiny and bouncy and no flour bits. I wouldn't oil before washing like I do with Indian Herbs but this is a heck of a lot less messy and time consuming for a quick wash. Also no tangly feeling at all so either straining and/or following with an ACV rinse made a big difference.

[Nymphe]

Shiny, beautiful results, Ophidian!

[likelikepenny]

Have you tried preening? I like to do it under running water in the shower more than on dry hair. I also keep my ends oiled pretty much constantly since I haven't trimmed in over a year and I don't plan to any more than necessary in the future.

I usually preen under the shower water as well, but because my sebum is so waxy, it's hard to work down the length without breakage.

[vpatt]

My hair may have absorbed a wee bit of the oil from using the BBB, but not much. I found myself thinking I could keep it braided until wash day, but I will wash tomorrow. Lol...it most definitely moved oil down the hair, but my hair has extra oil everywhere. I guess I brushed more thoroughly than before. Now I know. Unless my scalp changes a lot I think this is not for me except maybe right before washing. So far plain water is working best. With just the fingertip massaging. At my age I would not expect the oil production that I experience.

[Ophidian]

Shiny, beautiful results, Ophidian!
Thank you Nymphe! I'm very pleased.

[vpatt]

Shamelessly cross-posting from the wavy and wurly thread here, but here are the results from my rye wash:
https://s30.postimg.org/c9t4f7fyl/5_28_Rye_Flour_Wash.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/c9t4f7fyl/)
I'm very happy. Shiny and bouncy and no flour bits. I wouldn't oil before washing like I do with Indian Herbs but this is a heck of a lot less messy and time consuming for a quick wash. Also no tangly feeling at all so either straining and/or following with an ACV rinse made a big difference.

Your hair is beautiful! I love the wave and shine!

[Ophidian]

Thank you vpatt :cloud9:

[Ophidian]

Awhile ago, I tried using flaxseed gel as a conditioner, it kind of works, I just felt like I needed a little more slip. I want to try making a conditioner with flaxseed gel, marshmallow root, slippery elm, and perhaps a few oils...


Just found this video. You may have already seen it but I thought it might be helpful if you hadn't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-KgH-Caodw

[likelikepenny]

Just found this video. You may have already seen it but I thought it might be helpful if you hadn't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-KgH-Caodw

I hadn't seen this video, thank you so much! I need to order some herbs so I can try this out.

[vpatt]

I am just fascinated by your curls, likelikepenny! I love the look in your siggy, the curls are so pretty and delicate looking.

[likelikepenny]

I am just fascinated by your curls, likelikepenny! I love the look in your siggy, the curls are so pretty and delicate looking.

Thank you! This made my day :bounce:

[proo]

Shout out to nymphe:
Have you tried slippery elm?

[Reyn127]

Thank you, Ophidian! I think I might have to run to the health food store soon and see which of those herbs they have. The video for the slippery elm and marshmallow detangler looks :thumbsup: Also I have a teeny tiny bit of fenugreek seeds, but I'm not sure it would be quite enough to do anything with....

[Nymphe]

Shout out to nymphe:
Have you tried slippery elm?
Not yet, but I do have some catnip to try.

[Ophidian]

Just got some slippery elm powder, might try mixing it in with a rye flour wash for a little slip.

@Reyn in my experience with fenugreek seeds, a little bit does go a long way but the trick is to soak them a long time until the mucilage releases (yummmm). For my wash mix, I pour boiling water over the powder and soak ideally around 12 hours. If you are using whole seeds I might go longer--basically until you notice that the liquid has thickened and feels a bit slimy. Some people soak the seeds in a little water, grind them up into a paste, and use this as a conditioning pack. Or you could just use the liquid as a rinse and strain out the seeds.

[proo]

We need a list of all mucilage producing herbs/seeds.
From my own limited experience mucilage has been hydrating yet occlusive,
it somewhat seals?
Or is it more like aloe?

[Shorty89]

So I washed my hair on Sunday but went to a campfire get together on Monday night. Now my hair smells like smoke! I don't want to CO again but the diluted vinegar rinse didn't totally get rid of the smoke smell. Any ideas?

[Ophidian]

We need a list of all mucilage producing herbs/seeds.
From my own limited experience mucilage has been hydrating yet occlusive,
it somewhat seals?
Or is it more like aloe?
Yes we do!! I was just thinking about how we seem to have plenty about cleansers but less about conditioners/detanglers. I did a little research on the specific action of mucilage herbs on hair, thinking that that they could very well have a film-forming (sealing) quality as well as acting as a humectant. And whaddya know! Check this out:
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2014/07/film-forming-humectants-what-they-are.html?m=1
In a nutshell, film forming humectants such as certain plant gels (she lists flax seed, okra, aloe, pectin, xanthan and guar gums, marshmallow root, carageenan aka irish moss, and slippery elm as examples) both attract moisture and and form a film that helps hair to resist dehydration. Analogy: "If a simple humectant like glycerine dries quickly like an old, thin dish towel, then a film-forming humectant dries slowly like a very thick, plush bath towel."


So I washed my hair on Sunday but went to a campfire get together on Monday night. Now my hair smells like smoke! I don't want to CO again but the diluted vinegar rinse didn't totally get rid of the smoke smell. Any ideas?
Hmmm.....maybe a mermaid soak? Otherwise I would say a vinegar rinse since that is supposed to deodorize a bit, but if you already tried it then maybe a good soak would help. Maybe others will have more ideas.

[Nymphe]

We need a list of all mucilage producing herbs/seeds.
From my own limited experience mucilage has been hydrating yet occlusive,
it somewhat seals?
Or is it more like aloe?

I have a list in my notes:
Mucilaginous Plants
Flaxseed
Marshmallow
Burdock Root
Slippery Elm
Irish Moss
Chia
Fenugreek
Aloe Vera
Cactus
Coltsfoot
Blue Mallow/Malva
Hibiscus
Psyllium Husks
Comfrey
Mullein
Plantain
Licorice
Kelp (and most seaweed, algae)
Sweet Violet Leaf
Okra
Oat
Yucca
Butterwort
Malabar Spinach

So far, aloe is in a class by itself, as far as becoming a part of the hair, smoothing down the cuticle layer. Everything else I have tried flakes off.

[Ophidian]

That's awesome Nymphe, thanks for sharing! With regards to flaking, I imagine that there could be benefit to varying degrees using these herbs as a rinse-out conditioning treatment vs. a leave-in. I have only tried the former with the methi/fenugreek and hibiscus in my wash mix.

[Nightshade]

The store will be back after a week, vacation break. We want a ...mostly... sane Nightshade. :p

Hahahhaha that'd be nice, hey? :)

[mira-chan]

Hahahhaha that'd be nice, hey? :)

:D It would be. What is this sanity thing like by the way?

[vpatt]

Just finished watching Miss Fisher and there is a Rachel Hunter show on and I just heard her talking about amla. First time I have heard this mentioned IRL.

[Ophidian]

:D It would be. What is this sanity thing like by the way?
Let me know if you find out... :D

[proo]

Many thanks nymphe!
As for the flaking, are you rinsing out or leaving in?

[Nymphe]

Many thanks nymphe!
As for the flaking, are you rinsing out or leaving in?

I was leaving it in. Maybe I need to mix it with something.