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View Full Version : What's up with cones in shampoo and sulfates in conditioner? This seems backwards!



Kae612
February 10th, 2017, 01:20 PM
So since I was trying to get sulfate-free products to try to keep my hair purple-ish (I don't think that's going to work, it bled so much when I washed it, oh well) I rechecked all the ingredients, and several of my conditioners have sulfates in them! not SLS, but Behentrimonium Methosulfate. Both in a cone-free handmade product and a cone-y deep conditioner.

I also looked at the other shampoos and conditioners in the house, and my Dad uses Pantene Deep Repair - and the 3rd ingredient in the Shampoo is dimethicone, straight up. That's earlier in the ingredient list than it is in the conditioner!

I'm just not quite sure why. If a product has both sulfates and cones, isn't it counterproductive? Isn't it sort of then like a 2-in-1 that works less well than it could have?

Also, is this inherently bad? I don't want shampoo with cones, but is it okay to have conditioner with sulfates? (My one conditioner with cones and without sulfates has EDTA in it, so I'm also a little confused about that also).

Anje
February 10th, 2017, 01:33 PM
Sulfate is just a polyatomic ion. It doesn't automatically indicate cleansing ability. So no worries on the behentrimonium methosulfate, which is a quatarnary ammonium conditioning agent and happens to be one of my favorite things ever for making hair all nice and slippery without building up (for most people, at least; in some conditions it can still be a buildup culprit). It isn't cleansing like the lauryl and laureth sulfates are. Good stuff, power of chemistry, all that. :)

As for silicones in shampoo, yeah, that's sort of weird but it seems like it happens a bit. Probably makes hair feel better when it's freshly shampooed but not conditioned, though I imagine it could build up a bit, since it wouldn't make much sense to add it if it didn't deposit on hair.

mellsss91
February 10th, 2017, 02:06 PM
I use sulfate free shampoos from L'Oréal Paris. With rosemary in it!

lapushka
February 10th, 2017, 02:08 PM
So since I was trying to get sulfate-free products to try to keep my hair purple-ish (I don't think that's going to work, it bled so much when I washed it, oh well) I rechecked all the ingredients, and several of my conditioners have sulfates in them! not SLS, but Behentrimonium Methosulfate. Both in a cone-free handmade product and a cone-y deep conditioner.

I also looked at the other shampoos and conditioners in the house, and my Dad uses Pantene Deep Repair - and the 3rd ingredient in the Shampoo is dimethicone, straight up. That's earlier in the ingredient list than it is in the conditioner!

I'm just not quite sure why. If a product has both sulfates and cones, isn't it counterproductive? Isn't it sort of then like a 2-in-1 that works less well than it could have?

Also, is this inherently bad? I don't want shampoo with cones, but is it okay to have conditioner with sulfates? (My one conditioner with cones and without sulfates has EDTA in it, so I'm also a little confused about that also).

That is actually not a cleansing agent, not a "sulfate" when we talk about sulfates, in that sense. If that makes sense. LOL.

I tend to mostly avoid silicones in my shampoo, not in my conditioners. Just because I have SD, and need to keep my scalp squeaky clean. It can stand to have dimethicone in shampoo, though. So not too too bad.

Your conditioner does not have sulfates. Most conditioners do not have sulfates (cleansing agents), except maybe those that Lush makes.

mizukitty
February 10th, 2017, 03:08 PM
At the end of the day the rule of thumb is this: shampoo uses anionic (negatively charged) detergents in larger amounts (to clean), and conditioner uses cationic (positively charged) detergents in minute quantities to allow the conditioning agents (oils, fatty alcohols., etc) to bond to your hair.

Silicones in shampoo is nothing new, they're common in 2 in 1s and damaged hair shampoos. It's just another level of protection from mechanical damage, as it drastically reduces the friction between hair strands.

I don't personally like silicones in my shampoo, however, since they give me a flat looking head :lol:

ETA: Your conditioner probably contains some chloride, which performs exactly like behentrimonium methosulfate. Behentrimonium chloride is a popular one.

The addtion of these cationic detergents in conditioners also reduce hair static! They throw them into static sprays for blankets and stuff as well.

H o n є y ❤
February 10th, 2017, 03:36 PM
What the others said.

I actually look for Behentrimonium Methosulfate in my conditioners. I think it provides great slip!

Kae612
February 10th, 2017, 11:02 PM
Awesome! Thank you, I feel so much better about the conditioners now. I'll stop avoiding those ones! :)

I really don't want cones on my scalp...I have enough scalp issues without weird cone build up. But thank you for the explanation! I think it's something I'll personally avoid, but that does make sense now.

Dark40
February 11th, 2017, 08:06 PM
I second that too. Cones do add more slip. My hair loves the cones and the slip. I have also found a sulfate in this deep conditioner that I always love to use during the week, and it is called, "Queen Helene Cholesterol Conditioning Cream." When I looked at the ingredients a couple of days ago I was shocked!!! But it really helps my hair from preventing any damage, and it's really an excellent deep moisturizing conditioner!!!!

lapushka
February 12th, 2017, 02:38 PM
I second that too. Cones do add more slip. My hair loves the cones and the slip. I have also found a sulfate in this deep conditioner that I always love to use during the week, and it is called, "Queen Helene Cholesterol Conditioning Cream." When I looked at the ingredients a couple of days ago I was shocked!!! But it really helps my hair from preventing any damage, and it's really an excellent deep moisturizing conditioner!!!!

Maybe it is to counteract the fact that there is MO high up the list. Never mind how formulations work (at least, that's what I think). If it's great on your hair, and it works, then by all means keep using it. I stopped questioning ingredients too much. There was a time when I only wanted silicone-free and more natural products; not anymore. I use what's in my budget and what works *great* on my hair. It's the hair that has demands. And like I always say, it's about what your hair wants, not about what you want for your hair. ;)

Lilac Blossoms
February 13th, 2017, 06:46 AM
I'm with you, Lapushka. I purchased Argan oil shampoo and conditioner which is free of everything- sulfates, parabens, etc. However, if those are all I use, my scalp becomes insanely greasy and my length tangles like crazy. I still have to shampoo with a "regular" shampoo every few washes, and use Garnier leave-in conditioner when I get out of the shower. I'm still using the Argan oil so I can use it up, but I don't think I'll buy it again. I'm going to try to stay away from clarifying shampoo, but besides that, I'm not worried about being anything-free anymore. Tried it, didn't like it, moving on.

lapushka
February 13th, 2017, 08:32 AM
I'm with you, Lapushka. I purchased Argan oil shampoo and conditioner which is free of everything- sulfates, parabens, etc. However, if those are all I use, my scalp becomes insanely greasy and my length tangles like crazy. I still have to shampoo with a "regular" shampoo every few washes, and use Garnier leave-in conditioner when I get out of the shower. I'm still using the Argan oil so I can use it up, but I don't think I'll buy it again. I'm going to try to stay away from clarifying shampoo, but besides that, I'm not worried about being anything-free anymore. Tried it, didn't like it, moving on.

Good for you! It's much too difficult and rough to stick with something your hair doesn't like, especially the scalp is important here; scalp health is so so crucial to good growth. It's much better to find something that your hair likes and stick with it. At least, when I find something that works great on my hair, I stick with it.

I have found my HG second C in WCC (which is the HE Hello Hydration), and the Lidl conditioner bottle with the blue writing is great as a first C, but apart from that, I still have lots of conditioners to use up as a first C, so, we'll just say the quest for the greatest first C is still ongoing. ;) :lol:

Dark40
February 13th, 2017, 04:54 PM
Maybe it is to counteract the fact that there is MO high up the list. Never mind how formulations work (at least, that's what I think). If it's great on your hair, and it works, then by all means keep using it. I stopped questioning ingredients too much. There was a time when I only wanted silicone-free and more natural products; not anymore. I use what's in my budget and what works *great* on my hair. It's the hair that has demands. And like I always say, it's about what your hair wants, not about what you want for your hair. ;)

Yes, you are definitely right about that, and the silicones do work for my hair better than a silicone-free product. I just love that slip that it gives.:D