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View Full Version : Breakage on thin hair / dry ends, greasy roots / help?



Symbiotek
January 30th, 2017, 10:30 AM
Heyy, I haven't really been active on this forum lately, but decided to ask for your help on a couple things... I fear I might have to do the big chop if I can't solve this soon...

First, my hair type is probably 1b F/M ii, the longest parts are between BSL and WL. There are a lot of individual hairs, but each hair is really thin and silky. I've noticed a lot of breakage near the back of my neck. You know, the hair has broken and is visibly shorter in the middle, and then there's "normal" longer hair on each side of the gap. My hairdresser told me I'd have to cut it all the way to APL/BSL to make it look even.

This picture (external link, not my picture) (http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/120427115430-hair-blowdryer-story-top.jpg) looks a bit like my situation, just pretend the picture was taken from behind :D

Do you have any ideas? How can I minimize breakage? Could this be from wearing my hair up im a bun? I've been using invisibobbles (phone cord hair ties) for a few years now, and haven't really noticed this until maybe 6-10 months ago. I wear my hair in a braid or a bun at night, and in a bun pretty much every day, I don't really know how to make any hairstyles or French braids or anything. I wear it down maybe once a week. I don't use heat or any hair sprays or dyes or stuff like that. I oil the ends after every wash.

Which brings us to the other problem I've been having. My hair is kinda dry (but still shiny?) at the ends, but the roots get greasy very quickly. I wash every other day. On wash day, my hair looks nice. The next day, the roots are already getting kinda greasy but it looks okay enough. And the next day, it looks and feels yucky - but the ends are still dry. Fortunately it doesn't get itchy unless I go like 6 days without washing.
I've tried using "calming" shampoos for a sensitive scalp, and they help a little. If I use "regular" shampoos, the roots get greasy in just one day. And because of the dry ends, I have to use really moisturizing and rich conditioners and hair treatments. And as I said before, I oil the ends after squeezing excess water out with a soft towel. The product I use has argan and camelia oils in it.
Should I try products for greasy hair, or would those only make it worse? I've tried CO-washing a few times but it leaves the roots greasy, I'd have to CO-wash more often to make my hair look clean.

Haha wow, that's a long post... :lol: But yeah, I'd appreciate any advice!

mizukitty
January 30th, 2017, 10:43 AM
The nape breakage happens to me as well. It's an area that's vulnerable to it, as it rubs shirt collars and pillows and head rests and pretty much everything.

Fine hair is more prone to mechanical damage than other hair types. Changes in the way you handle, detangle, comb and sleep on your hair will make differences. Be extremely gentle when you dentangle and comb. Tangle teezer brushes work well since they have a lot of give, they won't rip the hair.

Have you tried scalp only washes? Your length is indicating it doesn't want to be washed that frequently, whereas your scalp does. It happens to many people. Washing the scalp only will remove those greasies, but you won't compromise the length.

Or, if you really need to wash the entirety, CWC is a good method for reducing drying and wear n tear on the length. Pre poo oiling (coconut) will be beneficial as well..

I'd probably throw in some protein, too. Will make your hair more resistant to breakage.

Good luck! :flower:

lapushka
January 30th, 2017, 11:08 AM
If it's really a huge gap, then I would consider cutting back, but if it's just a tiny patch, I'd for sure microtrim.

Do you S&D a lot and cut a lot off, by any chance?

Symbiotek
January 30th, 2017, 11:15 AM
Thank you for replying! I usually only wash the roots/scalp and try not to get any shampoo on the lengths. Maybe the CWC method will help, I'll give it a shot and see if the ends will be a little less unhappy :D

This is really frustrating. I've been really careful with my hair, and suddenly everything seems to go wrong. And I have no idea what hair habits I might have changed without noticing...

edit: I don't S/D or trim by myself. I visit a hairdresser every 3-4 months and get about 5 cm cut off.

lapushka
January 30th, 2017, 01:05 PM
edit: I don't S/D or trim by myself. I visit a hairdresser every 3-4 months and get about 5 cm cut off.

That's about all your growth that you have cut off every 3/4 months. That's 6-8cm of growth, hopefully, and 5 off. That's a lot!

Arctic
January 30th, 2017, 01:21 PM
Heyy, I haven't really been active on this forum lately, but decided to ask for your help on a couple things... I fear I might have to do the big chop if I can't solve this soon...

First, my hair type is probably 1b F/M ii, the longest parts are between BSL and WL. There are a lot of individual hairs, but each hair is really thin and silky. I've noticed a lot of breakage near the back of my neck. You know, the hair has broken and is visibly shorter in the middle, and then there's "normal" longer hair on each side of the gap. My hairdresser told me I'd have to cut it all the way to APL/BSL to make it look even.

This picture (external link, not my picture) (http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/120427115430-hair-blowdryer-story-top.jpg) looks a bit like my situation, just pretend the picture was taken from behind :D

Do you have any ideas? How can I minimize breakage? Could this be from wearing my hair up im a bun? I've been using invisibobbles (phone cord hair ties) for a few years now, and haven't really noticed this until maybe 6-10 months ago. I wear my hair in a braid or a bun at night, and in a bun pretty much every day, I don't really know how to make any hairstyles or French braids or anything. I wear it down maybe once a week. I don't use heat or any hair sprays or dyes or stuff like that. I oil the ends after every wash.

Which brings us to the other problem I've been having. My hair is kinda dry (but still shiny?) at the ends, but the roots get greasy very quickly. I wash every other day. On wash day, my hair looks nice. The next day, the roots are already getting kinda greasy but it looks okay enough. And the next day, it looks and feels yucky - but the ends are still dry. Fortunately it doesn't get itchy unless I go like 6 days without washing.
I've tried using "calming" shampoos for a sensitive scalp, and they help a little. If I use "regular" shampoos, the roots get greasy in just one day. And because of the dry ends, I have to use really moisturizing and rich conditioners and hair treatments. And as I said before, I oil the ends after squeezing excess water out with a soft towel. The product I use has argan and camelia oils in it.
Should I try products for greasy hair, or would those only make it worse? I've tried CO-washing a few times but it leaves the roots greasy, I'd have to CO-wash more often to make my hair look clean.

Haha wow, that's a long post... :lol: But yeah, I'd appreciate any advice!

Is this the longest your hair has been? I ask because some people seem to naturally have this kind of growth pattern, several of our members have it. It needs regular microtrimming I imagine, to grow evenly. Some of your hairs might have shorter terminal length, or they grow slower.

If it's a new problem (you have had blunt hem before at this length), then have you moved recently? I have seen our members have this kind of damage from hard water (usually after moving to a hard water area from soft water area).

Other kind of damage is of course possible, but if your hair really has this much broken off then something is quite seriously wrong.

Do I remember correctly that you are in Finland? Maybe I (or other Finns) can give you product recs.

Symbiotek
January 30th, 2017, 01:24 PM
That's about all your growth that you have cut off every 3/4 months. That's 6-8cm of growth, hopefully, and 5 off. That's a lot!

Yeah. I get about 1,3 cm of growth a month. Before this whole breakage thing, I only had to cut about 2 cm, but it slowly became more and more. And now it's been 5cm for a few months. And it's still not enough :( I think I'll have to chop off quite a bit, but I don't want to...

mellsss91
January 30th, 2017, 01:39 PM
Just trim the ends regulary with those sissers. I just gow to my ends and find those split ends and cut them off.
Also oil the ends Every single day.

!!

Symbiotek
January 30th, 2017, 01:46 PM
Is this the longest your hair has been?

If it's a new problem (you have had blunt hem before at this length), then have you moved recently?

Do I remember correctly that you are in Finland? Maybe I (or other Finns) can give you product recs.

Yeah, Finland. I live in an area with extemely hard water, but I've lived here a long time. This is the longest hair I've ever had. I had no problem at BSL, and I'm currently maybe 10 cm past that (because I've had to cut off so much). Something happened that caused breakage, and I honestly don't know what it could be! Other than that I got into my first-ever relationship about a year ago, and along with it, got a new nocturnal activity. But a pillow can't cause that much damage, can it? :lol:

Thanks for the idea, mellsss91, I'll try oiling the ends every day instead of just after washing. Maybe they'll get less frizzy :)

Symbiotek
January 30th, 2017, 02:01 PM
Here's a picture (http://rs1072.pbsrc.com/albums/w364/symbiote_k/20170130_224757.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip) of it, at this very moment. It just air dried after washing and I detangled it with a comb. As you can see, it looks rather unhappy...

mellsss91
January 30th, 2017, 02:06 PM
Have you tried leave in conditioning? My hair was also very damaged and frizzy, because i bleached my hair.
Since i use these pure coconut oil in my hair for 1 time a week, my hair looks more Healthy and shiny. I just put in in dry hair and leave it in for a few Hours or over a night. It really works for me :)

Symbiotek
January 30th, 2017, 02:36 PM
I use about a tablespoon of argan and camelia oil on towel dry hair. Maybe that's not enough. I think I'll try shea butter next, if I can find it in my town. Or maybe coconut oil, since so many people have had good results with it :)

lapushka
January 30th, 2017, 02:45 PM
I'm sorry but that's nothing like the first picture you posted, with the "gap" in it. There's nothing wrong with your hair from what I can see! No gap or anything; just normal looking, quite uniform hair.

Symbiotek
January 30th, 2017, 03:11 PM
I couldn't get a picture where it's more obvious, but it's there... There's like a layer of short hair hidden there, at the nape area. I guess it's not that bad yet, since it hides away so well, but I can definitely find it with my hands, this short layer of broken hair.
Should I just ditch the invisibobbles and only use hairsticks?

lapushka
January 30th, 2017, 03:23 PM
I couldn't get a picture where it's more obvious, but it's there... There's like a layer of short hair hidden there, at the nape area. I guess it's not that bad yet, since it hides away so well, but I can definitely find it with my hands, this short layer of broken hair.
Should I just ditch the invisibobbles and only use hairsticks?

Are you sure it's a layer that's really obvious, or are you talking about wispy short nape hairs? :confused:

Deborah
January 30th, 2017, 05:47 PM
Your ends look a bit thin, but I don't see any big gap in the middle either.

Shorty89
January 30th, 2017, 10:36 PM
A tablespoon seems like a lot of oil to me. Also, I find that if I oil my ends and then style my hair right after, that oil will creep up the length and onto my scalp. Maybe that's happening to you?

Did you used to dye/heat style? If there is breakage, it could be from old damage. Good luck!

ChloeDharma
January 31st, 2017, 02:00 AM
I think your hair looks nice, I would advise switching to coconut oil as a pre-poo and see if that helps but it will take time to notice.

As for the nape issue, I have a similar situation but it blends. You could try a silicone leave in just on those areas and see if that helps it grow but to be honest I really can't see a problem there. Could it be that you are being a little hyper critical? I think many of us are prone to this.

lapushka
January 31st, 2017, 04:10 AM
As for the nape issue, I have a similar situation but it blends. You could try a silicone leave in just on those areas and see if that helps it grow but to be honest I really can't see a problem there. Could it be that you are being a little hyper critical? I think many of us are prone to this.

Yes, don't be so hard on yourself.

I am oily as well, and need to wash with harsh sulfates. A method like CWC might be highly beneficial to you. Maybe look into that some more?

Arctic
January 31st, 2017, 04:57 AM
Yeah, Finland. I live in an area with extemely hard water, but I've lived here a long time. This is the longest hair I've ever had. I had no problem at BSL, and I'm currently maybe 10 cm past that (because I've had to cut off so much). Something happened that caused breakage, and I honestly don't know what it could be! Other than that I got into my first-ever relationship about a year ago, and along with it, got a new nocturnal activity. But a pillow can't cause that much damage, can it? :lol:

Thanks for the idea, mellsss91, I'll try oiling the ends every day instead of just after washing. Maybe they'll get less frizzy :)

Lol, well if the nocturnal activities are to blame, then screw that, Hair (no pun intended!) :D There are more important things in life than protect you strands :D

Your photo doesn't look bad at all, like other already pointed out, but sometimes what the photo looks like doesn't reflect the reality. Since hard water is a known issue and you live where it can be an actual issue, I recommend regular chelating if you haven't been doing that already. I recently bought Redken Hair Cleansing Cream shampoo (larifies and chelates) and it's been really good, much better than the Herbina one I had been using before. It was on sale at Sokos (with their own bonus card), almost 10 euros off of the normal price. It might still be there with that price.

On my own hair too much protein has been known to cause breakage, my hair is rather sensitive to it. If by a calming shampoo you mentioned earlier you meant XZ chocolate vanilla, that has quite a bit of protein in it. I absolutely love that shampoo and feel like it changed my life (healed my scalp!) but it still has protein which makes me need to moisturise a lots. The ingredient that makes that shampoo so great is piroctone olamine and there are protein-free shampoos with piroctone olamine, so maybe look for those.

On the other hand too little protein can also cause breakage.



Here's a picture (http://rs1072.pbsrc.com/albums/w364/symbiote_k/20170130_224757.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip) of it, at this very moment. It just air dried after washing and I detangled it with a comb. As you can see, it looks rather unhappy...

Do you have any known damage? I see your colour changes and wondered if it's old bleach damage, or maybe sun damage?



I couldn't get a picture where it's more obvious, but it's there... There's like a layer of short hair hidden there, at the nape area. I guess it's not that bad yet, since it hides away so well, but I can definitely find it with my hands, this short layer of broken hair.
Should I just ditch the invisibobbles and only use hairsticks?

I've heared good things about invisi bobble but without personal experiences with them, I need to assume the same thing is true with them as with everything hair related: they probably are amazing and damage free on some people, and not so great on others. Since you've used them so long, and now seem to have mysterious breakage, I personally would reduce invisibobble usage by a lot. I warmly recommend spin pins (from Glitter)!

Persiangirl01
January 31st, 2017, 05:21 AM
I personally have the same style of breakage as the first photo you sent. It was severe last July, and with regular trims it has become a lot less noticeable but it is still there.

I give that area of my hair special are attention by oiling it separately (I find that shorter hair then oil it's ends, as it obviously gets missed when i oil my longer ends) and I now wear my hair up much more than I used to. I've found that that area is more dry than the rest of my hair because it is underneath so I tend to neglect it and since I wore my hair down a lot, it was always the spot that would knot up into a ball by the end of each day.

You just need a lot of patience to deal with that type of breakage! Mine is currently sitting at the bottom of BSL and the rest of my hair is at waist. Last July that piece of hair was at APL while the rest was at waist :D

But I have to agree with the other ladies, your hair looks nothing like the 1st photo! Consider yourself lucky :D

Symbiotek
January 31st, 2017, 05:48 AM
Thank you, everyone, for helping me. I think I'll try CWC first, and see if it makes the ends a little better. If not, I'll give the pre-poo oiling a try. It's so difficult, to go slow and not just throw everything in there at once :lol:

Here's another picture (link) (http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/symbiote_k/20170131_140514-1.jpg). This is what I mean. There's a lot of this shorter hair at the back of my head. They go from about that high all the way down to the nape area. They hide under the longer hairs, maybe that's why they didn't really show in the previous picture.


A tablespoon seems like a lot of oil to me. Also, I find that if I oil my ends and then style my hair right after, that oil will creep up the length and onto my scalp. Maybe that's happening to you?

Did you used to dye/heat style? If there is breakage, it could be from old damage. Good luck!

I haven't used heat in years. I always get a blowdry at the hairdresser's, but that's only 3-4 times a year, so I don't think that's what's causing the damage. And the oil, I apply it on the length only and not near the roots, and my hair sucks it up rather greedily. I guess I could try being more careful when applying, only focusing on the very ends... :hmm:


If by a calming shampoo you mentioned earlier you meant XZ chocolate vanilla, that has quite a bit of protein in it. I absolutely love that shampoo and feel like it changed my life (healed my scalp!) but it still has protein which makes me need to moisturise a lots. The ingredient that makes that shampoo so great is piroctone olamine and there are protein-free shampoos with piroctone olamine, so maybe look for those.

Do you have any known damage? I see your colour changes and wondered if it's old bleach damage, or maybe sun damage?

I warmly recommend spin pins (from Glitter)!

Yeah, I'm talking about the XZ chocolate vanilla shampoo. I used the Herbina Sensitive Blueberry Milk shampoo before, but I couldn't find it in the stores anymore and had to find something else. I'll stick to this one for a while and see what happens. If it doesn't work, I guess I could try a protein-free shampoo.

I haven't dyed my hair since May 2014. Before my latest appointment, I had been going to the same hairdresser for 3 years. In 2013, had a lot of damage from simply not caring for my hair and not trimming, so we cut all of the damaged hair off. After that, I had about 2-3 cm cut off every 3-4 months, and every time the hairdresser told me my hair was growing nicely and there was only little damage and dryness, especially in winter. Then something happened, and when I went to see her in August 2016, she looked at my hair and told me there was a lot of breakage and a lot of new short hair growing at the back.
Then, in December 2016, I went to a new hairdresser. She showed me the "gap" and told me I'd have to go all the way back to APL/BSL to make the hemline even. So something definitely happened.

I had to actually Google what a spin pin was, but it looks promising. I'll have to try one of those sometime, maybe I'll actually learn how to wear my hair in something other than a simple bun :lol:

kidari
January 31st, 2017, 03:11 PM
I have to agree I think your hair looks great. A tiny trim should be enough to clean it up. If I were you I would learn how to micrtrom it yourself at home... I use a Creaclip and if I want the back straight I enlist help from someone else. You could just "dust" off less than a cm every month and this can allow you to more easily care for your hair and retain more length in spite of the frequent trimming. I see it like gardening... if you care for for it by getting rid of the weeds and any dead leaves, it allows the entire garden or plant to flourish. If you have scraggly ends constantly getting caught in everything causing tangles and breakage from detangling then you are causing further damage to your hair while caring for it. If you microtrim it often then the comb just glides effortlessly through your hair and makes caring for it easier as well as makes it effortless to preserve the health and length of your hair constantly. Just don't trim off too much or too often if you want to gain length.

Symbiotek
February 3rd, 2017, 03:58 AM
So this (link) (http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/symbiote_k/20170131_140514-1.jpg) is not a problem I can't solve with microtrimming? Hmm, good thing I have my poodle's trimming scissors... :lol:

lovetoread
November 4th, 2017, 08:15 PM
Which brings us to the other problem I've been having. My hair is kinda dry (but still shiny?) at the ends, but the roots get greasy very quickly. I wash every other day. On wash day, my hair looks nice. The next day, the roots are already getting kinda greasy but it looks okay enough. And the next day, it looks and feels yucky - but the ends are still dry. Fortunately it doesn't get itchy unless I go like 6 days without washing.

I have this exact same problem and I'm so glad I found this thread! I read this & thought "that could have been written by me!" Anyway, I was reading through some of the comments and trying to figure out what to do. Several people have mentioned trying coconut, which I have done in the past, but I seem to have a LOT of hair fall when I use it. Should I use it anyway, try other oils or try something completely different? By the way, I do CWC.

Jo Ann
November 4th, 2017, 09:00 PM
I was having a breakage problem with the hair at the back of my head. What took care of it for me was using a detangling comb (wide-tooth come) to detangle my hair before I brush my hair, starting from the bottom and working my way up. Any knots I find, I detangle by hand.

Another thing that might help you, Symbiotek, is the LOC method (link here: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=118167 ). Do the LOC method from the ears down--it will help you get moisture in your lengths. I would also focus, at least with the leave-in conditioner, on where you get the most knots/tangles--at least it will help you get through them easier.

I'm also for lightly oiling the ends of your hair nightly--if your knots/tangles aren't covered by this, lightly oil where those occur. Microtrimming (link here: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=75468 ) once every month or two, only 1cm or so each time, will help you gain length while trimming out damage.

If CWC doesn't work for you, you can try WCC (wash-condition-conditon), using your more-moisturizing second conditioner from the ears down. Maybe a rinse-out oil between the first and second conditioning might help if you're still having problems.

Good luck!

leayellena
November 5th, 2017, 01:22 AM
I am in the same situation as you, I feel your pain, especially because your hair is straight. it will pass, trust me. take time, condition it, apply leave-ins and don't let it dry, fry. put it up every single time you go outside and wear a regular braid at home. this will actually protect your hair from further damaging. microtrims and trims help too, a lot. I'd also recommend stop combing/brushing your hair on a daily basis. just finger comb it and put it up. forget hairties. no matter how I try I still take hairs together with the hair tie. I'm done with them. forever. I use beak clip and spin pins instead and the hair tie is only for securing my braid. it's just curious that I don\t shed my ends but only at the nape of my neck.
forget hairdressers. you pay so you don't have to take care of your hair or something. no, I got rid of most of my layers myself. oh and I almost forgot: this micro trim, that usually is less than half a cm per month and I thought I don't do much for my hair instead of probably growing at a slower rate(?) actually has thicken my pony circ. from 8 to 8,5 cm (3.1 to 3.34 inch).
forget the products for greasy hair too. they contain, as far as I know, almost double as much sls than the "normal" shampoos. try a sls-free shampoo or a cone-free conditioner on your hair and scalp. I like both coney and cone-free conditioners and I use them as shampoo. the last sls-shampoo was last summer and the last low-poo was in...er... beginning of september I guess... I co-ed twice a week for few times than I was tired one washing day and postponed for like 3 days more because my hair was ok. now I co every 5 to 6 days. ok I don\t know how often I\ll have to co- in summer... probably ever 2 or 3 days(?)
take time, invest in trial-and-error with conditioners and shampoos instead of hairdressers, don't "get bored of your hair" because those who achieved long healthy hair have taken years to grow it too, braid and bun it every single time you go outside, seal in moisture, micro trim your hair every month and keep track of your progress in order to remind your how far you\ve come and stay positive about your hair.
good luck in your hair journey!

my2cats1
November 6th, 2017, 06:06 PM
you have been given a lot of good advice here. the only things I would add would be to switch to a silk or satin pillowcase and make sure you're using a seamless comb (if you're not already).
Good luck!

lapushka
November 7th, 2017, 09:32 AM
I have this exact same problem and I'm so glad I found this thread! I read this & thought "that could have been written by me!" Anyway, I was reading through some of the comments and trying to figure out what to do. Several people have mentioned trying coconut, which I have done in the past, but I seem to have a LOT of hair fall when I use it. Should I use it anyway, try other oils or try something completely different? By the way, I do CWC.

If you use oil on your scalp and you get more shedding, it is not "just hairs that would have come out anyway", it is a kind of thinning shed and it means you cannot tolerate any oils on your scalp. Stop oiling your scalp immediately. Length = fine, but scalp: no!

queenbee1
November 7th, 2017, 01:12 PM
I don't now of anybody has mentioned this but does your shampoo/conditioner/leave in/serum contain protein or amino acids? Might be protein overload.

Also how long has it been since you last clarified? Might be build up.