Do you ever feel wasteful?

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

I'm sure most of you use up all the products you buy, but I'm curious about how many of us here actually think about the waste and garage we produce by buying all these products and we'll.. consuming. Being consumers. Buying all these new products, hoarding 20 bottles of a conditioner made by companies that test on animals and hurt the environment.
I can't be the only person that thinks about this right?
I know I'm not! I can't be the only one.

I'm trying to live a more waste less lifestyle, using shampoo bars and not buying new conditioner until I absolutely need to. Only buying from brands that are marked as cruelty free and watching the ingredients list to make sure I'm not just buying chemicals. Looking into the companies to see where they source their ingredients, who owns the company and who makes these products.

I guess this comes from my minimalistic perspective. I don't like buying more. The idea that i need more... that i need to try this or that next, buy more. Buy buy buy. I'm not a consumer. I don't buy something simply because it's on sale. Hair started to make me into a consumer though. I had 5 jars of conditioner sitting in my bedroom, 6 different kinds of shampoo, 4 different oils. It made me STRESSED out.

Why would I need so much when 1/4th of all that product is enough? I don't want to CONSUME anymore... I downsized recently, I'm in the process of using up what I have and not buying ANYTHING more until what I have is gone, now I have 1 large jar of conditioner, shampoo bars, and the medicated shampoo I require. I still continue to get members that suggest new products to me reagurdless of me telling them that I don't buy new things til the old is gone. There's a whole forum dedicated to people that do this exact thing.. they have too much and need to get rid of it.

Does anyone here live a waste free lifestyle? Does anyone here live a cruelty free lifestyle?
Or is it just me? With all the big forums for products for companies like Pantene and Garnier, Aussie, L'Oréal and other such things, I feel like a small fish in a big pond. I don't see a cruelty free forum and I'd love to see it.


Just a thought. :) Nothing against those of us that do hoard. Lol...

ETA: original title was "Do you think you waste?" And I edited it because I want to know whom here is an "ethical consumer" and uses cruelty free only hair products.
Original title took the entire focus of the forum lol

[spidermom]

I do think about these things, but I'm a consumer nonetheless. I was looking around this morning at all the stuff my husband and I have in our bedroom. I have no real motivation for getting rid of it now because we live in a house big enough to contain it all. So I thought "if I had half the space, what would I keep?" and I realized that most of what's there is only there because of impulse. Husband or I had the money and the impulse and the space, so we bought a thing that sits around gathering dust. There aren't very many things in this house that are here because we use and/or love them.

Hair product wise, I don't have that much. Two shampoos, one for clarifying, one for moisturizing; two conditioners, one for mixing SMT, one for moisturizing (a set with the moisturizing shampoo). For styling, I have a curl creme, a styling gel, hairspray, and aloe vera gel. I have coconut oil, too. That's about it.

[Chromis]

Shampoo bars don't have much packaging and the packaging is paper. I don't use conditioner unless I henna or cassia, which is maybe once a year-ish so I just have the one bottle and it has lasted three or four years now (It really aids in rinsing the mud out and I put a little into the mixture itself). My ACV is in plastic jugs, but comes from a super-local apple farm. I can buy it in glass bottles, but it is more expensive then and comes from farther away. I use up products before moving on to the next thing (unloved shampoo bars are very easy to swap here or can just be used as normal soap) or I give them to someone who can. I did the same with regular shampoo back when I used it, used up the whole thing before trying the next one. If I wanted to though, I could buy that in bulk from the hippie health food store. We actually just got back from shopping at the regular bulk food store! Spices and nuts such are much cheaper that way.

I don't like having lots of "stuff" in general. I like having emergency items and food, but only as much as I can reasonably rotate through.

Oh yeah, I do have aloe gel and coconut oil too, but I use them for more than only hair and they also last me a long time and I do have oils too, but not an overwhelming amount.

[lapushka]

I'm on a tight budget. So I can't think about other things. Going cruelty free is a luxury I can't afford. And yes, I buy things when they're on sale, in mass amounts because it will save me money in the long run. My mom bought celery (in jars) in bulk a few weeks ago at Aldi. She spent about €50 when she would have needed to spend about €120 where she to wait to buy it from a regular store, not in bulk. The celery is on our meal plan, and she watches the expiry date closely - it's fine. I think the same way with hair products. And yes, I am a consumer. I don't think it is a dirty word.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

I'm on a tight budget. So I can't think about other things. Going cruelty free is a luxury I can't afford. And yes, I buy things when they're on sale, in mass amounts because it will save me money in the long run. My mom bought celery (in jars) in bulk a few weeks ago at Aldi. She spent about €50 when she would have needed to spend about €120 where she to wait to buy it from a regular store, not in bulk. The celery is on our meal plan, and she watches the expiry date closely - it's fine. I think the same way with hair products. And yes, I am a consumer. I don't think it is a dirty word.
Cruelty free is not expensive. You already use shea moisture so you're half way there. I'm a college student living off FAFSA so I understand the pressures of not having cash, but using products that are not tested on animals, at least here in the USA is not more expensive than what's offered by Pantene and other brands. It's a misconception that going cruelty free is expensive, but there are many brands at the drugstore that are cruelty free. :)

Idk. I think it's about your point of view. I think consuming things we don't need is what's bad about being a consumer. I never said being consumer was a bad thing, but consuming more than i actually need and consuming JUST TO CONSUME is the bad part of being a consumer? Sometimes we consume and don't realize what we are doing, sometimes we obsess over finding new products and trying new methods without thinking twice. That's all I'm getting at.

[renia22]

I don't necessarily think having too many hair products means you are wasteful, as long as you are using them and not letting them go to waste, or throwing things away or something. The stressed out feeling of having too much stuff around is understandable, especially if the shopping was done in some sort of compulsive state. That makes sense, I know *that* feeling.

In general, though, I think it's a good idea look at the big picture and put things in perspective. For myself, I buy certain types or products because when I tried the natural/ organic products (and we're talking years of experimenting), I was having a hair shedding problem, and when I went back to conventional products, it stopped. The hair loss was such a horrible experience (and it's happened to me for various reasons since about age 19), now that it's stopped, I have no desire to mess with what's working. I do have a stash, mostly things that are discontinued or about to be. When I get to the point where I think I have too much, I either sell a few things on EBay so someone else can enjoy it, or I give things away to my clients (I work in Human Services). Most of them can't afford to spend more than $1 for Vo5 or Suave, so they really appreciate donations.

As far as other areas in my life, I remember living out in the Desert Southwest in the early-mid 90s and recycling way before it became mainstream, and before rest of the country caught on. I used to have to pack up my car since they didn't come to you, and taking my dog for a ride out to the recycling plant every couple of weeks. I'm still huge in recycling and reusing, will use washed out plastic and glass food containers as storage and Tupperware. When things get to the point they can't be used anymore, then I recycle them. I'm in my 40s and just recently bought my 3rd car, which is fuel efficient like my last 2, and I'll go out of my way to go to gas stations that use US sourced gas. I wear the same clothes forever, don't update electronics or appliances that often, not until I have to. My laundry and cleaning products are all "natural". I tend to buy natural and organic foods, and see a Naturopathic physician, who has taught me a lot about herbal remedies, so I therefore support some great herbal companies.

IDK, when I look at my habits overall, I don't feel too bad that I have a stash of hair products that I like.. it all comes down to your habits overall, I think..

[Flipgirl24]

I think in the Western world, we are wasteful. Think of all the food that goes to the landfill because it doesn't look proper. All the restaurants and their waste. Cruise ships throw all excess food out every week. Not to mention all the packaging, especially plastic.

I am trying to become more environmentally responsible. I started a garden two years ago. I try to use cruelty-free products. I make my laundry detergent and household cleaners. I am far from perfect. It takes a lot of thought and dedication. I do find that the environmentally friendly and cruelty-free products are more expensive and sometimes are less effective. Some products are just greenwashing. And so many cruelty-free brands are owned by larger corporations who test on animals. L'oreal owns the Body Shop; Estee Lauder owns Too Faced cosmetics to name just two. And then there are those companies who only test in China because they are required to if they want to sell their products there. It is really a sad situation. From toothpaste to eyeliner, animals suffer. It isn't enough that we eat them or develop properties and overtake their habitat (and then kill them when they encroach on 'our' property.

If you try a bunch of products and don't like them, maybe donate them to a women's shelter. Don't throw them away. Or use shampoos as cleansers and conditioner as shaving cream.

I went to a lecture by Jane Goodall and she said that organic, cruelty-free products are more expensive but in order to make them more available and to make companies accountable, we should buy them. It is ridiculous that good natural, non-contaminated food is more expensive but farmers also have to spend a lot to certify their fruits and veggies as organic.

That said, I'm in no position to buy a $30 bottle of conditioner or a $4.99 banana. I try to buy free run eggs but I am thinking of n o t eating eggs anymore because of what they do to the male chick's. It isn't easy if you are on a budget.

It can be daunting to think about how our habits that we take for granted affects the world. I try to lessen the impact by using products that don't break the bank but don't harm the environment or animals. But I'm no where near where I'd like to be because of the cost. Granted, making my own laundry detergent is cheaper in the long run and actually works better and doesn't have crazy smells. Growing my own veggies is cheaper (though not at first!) Than buying at the store.

I don't judge anyone; all I can do is do the best I can to live by what I believe. I work at an animal hospital and am trying to figure out ways to be less wasteful without compromising the level of cleanliness a hospital requires.

[sumidha]

Nope, no one here lives a waste free lifestyle in the slightest. As people living in the first world we all live a completely destructive unsustainable lifestyle, and I've come to terms with that reality. That's not to say I'm a nihilist who buy new clothing by the bagfull from the mall while gleefully dumping shampoo into the creek and eating a whopper, but the reality is even the most eco-conscious car free vegan freegan dirt worshipping hippie is still participating in the system that's destroying our planet, so I don't keep myself up at night worrying that two bottles of conditioner a year is going to be the straw that breaks the planets back.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

Nope, no one here lives a waste free lifestyle in the slightest. As people living in the first world we all live a completely destructive unsustainable lifestyle, and I've come to terms with that reality. That's not to say I'm a nihilist who buy new clothing by the bagfull from the mall while gleefully dumping shampoo into the creek and eating a whopper, but the reality is even the most eco-conscious car free vegan freegan dirt worshipping hippie is still participating in the system that's destroying our planet, so I don't keep myself up at night worrying that two bottles of conditioner a year is going to be the straw that breaks the planets back.

There's a miscommunication of the question I asked. Waste free doesn't entirely mean: produce 0 waste. People produce waste regardless, my question is regarding more towards being aware and making a conscious effort to reduce.

(However I actually meet a lot of people here in Los Angeles that are waste free - participate in the "fit all my trash in year in a jar" lifestyle. That's why i asked. I thought maybe some more users here would be a part of that as well. Or more conscious of the way we use and consume.)

Being waste free doesn't entirely mean - producing zero waste. People in 3rd world countries also produce waste as well. We aren't the only suspects.

But regardless of people's feelings about waste -- I was more curious to know if there are cruelty free members here or members that use their dollars to make corporations more ethical -- whom of us is a typical "ethical consumer". Maybe I should edit the title because it seems to be the only question people are focusing on. I'm a sociology major so this is just something that peaks my curiosity.

[lapushka]

Cruelty free is not expensive. You already use shea moisture so you're half way there. I'm a college student living off FAFSA so I understand the pressures of not having cash, but using products that are not tested on animals, at least here in the USA is not more expensive than what's offered by Pantene and other brands. It's a misconception that going cruelty free is expensive, but there are many brands at the drugstore that are cruelty free. :)

Idk. I think it's about your point of view. I think consuming things we don't need is what's bad about being a consumer. I never said being consumer was a bad thing, but consuming more than i actually need and consuming JUST TO CONSUME is the bad part of being a consumer? Sometimes we consume and don't realize what we are doing, sometimes we obsess over finding new products and trying new methods without thinking twice. That's all I'm getting at.

In my part of the world, it is. And if I want to order SM, I have to pay €20 a tub. I can't get it here easily. So it *is* expensive. Yes I have SM products, but they are the stylers only. Because I'm not about to waste that amount of money on "regular" conditioners that wash down the drain. And I can't use the shampoos as they are sulfate-free. Pantene or my HE HH is between €2-3, so yes there is a big difference! And I will continue to buy Pantene and HE without any issues. Actually it is between €2-4. Pantene is a little expensive here. :)

We all have to decide this for ourselves, which is more important to us. And to me, my budget is more important to me. It is sad, but true. :(

[Alissalocks]

I live in a small house and so I'm forced to be conservative. I don't have room to hoard, and right now I have ~two bottles~ of conditioner in my shower, which for me is uncharacteristic. I do stock up on a few extra bottles of Hask shine treatments when they go on sale periodically from $2 to $1 each, but I often give those away now too. So even those don't stick around.

I recycle plastics etc. that's something I try to do as a general consumer, not just a hair product consumer. So I'm like you, and do consider some of the points you bring up. What I've liked about this forum is I feel like it doesn't try to push lots of (often expensive) products as the answer to hair growth, but as a person it's easy for me to fall into that "one more purchase, the next great product, the miracle I haven't yet tried" mentality that drives one to purchase.

There is a "use up your stash thread," which might help you find company here if you wanted to be stricter about your purchases? :flower:

[lapushka]

Yes, OP, check out the recycling thread. Recycling is *big* where I live, so... wasteful... not really. I mean... we have great recycling in place, and we can't really do much more than that already.

[sumidha]

There's a miscommunication of the question I asked. Waste free doesn't entirely mean: produce 0 waste. People produce waste regardless, my question is regarding more towards being aware and making a conscious effort to reduce.

(However I actually meet a lot of people here in Los Angeles that are waste free - participate in the "fit all my trash in year in a jar" lifestyle. That's why i asked. I thought maybe some more users here would be a part of that as well. Or more conscious of the way we use and consume.)

Being waste free doesn't entirely mean - producing zero waste. People in 3rd world countries also produce waste as well. We aren't the only suspects.

But regardless of people's feelings about waste -- I was more curious to know if there are cruelty free members here or members that use their dollars to make corporations more ethical -- whom of us is a typical "ethical consumer". Maybe I should edit the title because it seems to be the only question people are focusing on. I'm a sociology major so this is just something that peaks my curiosity.

The idea of "waste free" is a bit of a soap box for me- I used to do greening and sustainability work for events (many of which bill themselves as 'green' or 'eco-conscious') ranging from a couple hundred people to many thousands, and seeing the back of house waste that happens left me with strong feelings about green washing and the whole idea of personal responsibility as the ultimate form of environmentalism. I honestly feel like it's a red herring to keep people from putting actual pressure on industrial waste producers to cut back, because they're so obsessed with finding the most sustainable non-toxic brand of toothpaste. For example, that waste free person in LA goes to the bulk food store and buys some lentils. They fill up their mason jar and hop on their bike back home, congratulating themselves for being waste free. What they don't see is all of the waste created along the entire rest of the supply chain to get those lentils into that bulk bin, from lentils getting picked in the field and loaded onto a diesel truck to be taken to a train to get them to the processing plant, being packed into plastic bags and loaded onto pallets wrapped in pallet wrap (single use plastic film) being loaded onto a different truck to go to the retailers distribution center, before being loaded onto a third truck to go to the store, where an employee cuts the plastic wrap off the pallet, dumps the bags of lentils into a bulk bin and the consumer eventually buys them thinking they're 'waste free'.

That's not to say that striving to be personally waste free isn't a worthy goal, but I do question how effective it really is when we're so obsessed with personal responsibility that we don't think about changing the rest of the system we're stuck in. Anyways, that's my soap box. :soapbox:

To answer the cruelty free question, I focus more on things I consume in a higher volume, so for me it's more important to buy free range veggie fed eggs, which I eat almost every day, rather than conditioner which I buy once or maybe twice a year. I would probably feel differently if I was more of a product junkie. Although I will say, I really want to try the Hask conditioners everyone raves about, but can't bring myself to do it because they come in single use plastic packets that can't be recycled. If it came in a normal conditioner bottle I'd be all over that! :)

[HairPlease]

Too bad we don't have shampoo and conditioner depositors at the shops so you can just take a refillable bottle and fill it up with S&C like a soda fountain..

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

The idea of "waste free" is a bit of a soap box for me- I used to do greening and sustainability work for events (many of which bill themselves as 'green' or 'eco-conscious') ranging from a couple hundred people to many thousands, and seeing the back of house waste that happens left me with strong feelings about green washing and the whole idea of personal responsibility as the ultimate form of environmentalism. I honestly feel like it's a red herring to keep people from putting actual pressure on industrial waste producers to cut back, because they're so obsessed with finding the most sustainable non-toxic brand of toothpaste. For example, that waste free person in LA goes to the bulk food store and buys some lentils. They fill up their mason jar and hop on their bike back home, congratulating themselves for being waste free. What they don't see is all of the waste created along the entire rest of the supply chain to get those lentils into that bulk bin, from lentils getting picked in the field and loaded onto a diesel truck to be taken to a train to get them to the processing plant, being packed into plastic bags and loaded onto pallets wrapped in pallet wrap (single use plastic film) being loaded onto a different truck to go to the retailers distribution center, before being loaded onto a third truck to go to the store, where an employee cuts the plastic wrap off the pallet, dumps the bags of lentils into a bulk bin and the consumer eventually buys them thinking they're 'waste free'.

That's not to say that striving to be personally waste free isn't a worthy goal, but I do question how effective it really is when we're so obsessed with personal responsibility that we don't think about changing the rest of the system we're stuck in. Anyways, that's my soap box. :soapbox:

To answer the cruelty free question, I focus more on things I consume in a higher volume, so for me it's more important to buy free range veggie fed eggs, which I eat almost every day, rather than conditioner which I buy once or maybe twice a year. I would probably feel differently if I was more of a product junkie. Although I will say, I really want to try the Hask conditioners everyone raves about, but can't bring myself to do it because they come in single use plastic packets that can't be recycled. If it came in a normal conditioner bottle I'd be all over that! :)

I guess I have a very different opinion because it's very easy to find a business here that doesn't participate in what you described. There are several markets and restaurants that grow their own food. There are bars that have composts that they use to grow the food that they serve here for petes sake, bars!! Hahahaha. Maybe it's just easier for me because I live in a very liberal state where plastic bags are banned, most everyone here lives ethically or tries to, we have taxes that are placed on people that consume too much. We also put a lot of pressure on the government to do their part here.

So I guess it's just different for me.

[Flipgirl24]

Too bad we don't have shampoo and conditioner depositors at the shops so you can just take a refillable bottle and fill it up with S&C like a soda fountain..

The Body Shop used to do that before they went corporate. A big problem was hygiene and the transfer of bacteria. It would be a good idea but there would still be a lot of waste and pollution creating the big containers and dispensers and the product itself. But in the end if everyone used this type of system it may turn out to be less wasteful.

[littlestarface]

Too bad we don't have shampoo and conditioner depositors at the shops so you can just take a refillable bottle and fill it up with S&C like a soda fountain..

Eww gross.

Tho there is a company here in my part of cali that sells glass milk bottles and we (when we are done with them), take the glass empty bottles back to the store and they in turn give them back to the company and we get $2 back for each bottle.

To answer the title nope never.

[Flipgirl24]

I guess I have a very different opinion because it's very easy to find a business here that doesn't participate in what you described. There are several markets and restaurants that grow their own food. There are bars that have composts that they use to grow the food that they serve here for petes sake, bars!! Hahahaha. Maybe it's just easier for me because I live in a very liberal state where plastic bags are banned, most everyone here lives ethically or tries to, we have taxes that are placed on people that consume too much. We also put a lot of pressure on the government to do their part here.

So I guess it's just different for me.

While that is great that there are businesses with a conscience where you live, I am hesitant to believe they are not more expensive than your average business. There is a similar restaurant where I live and it costs $12.00 for a tiny meal. I'm talking a ramikin size bowl of vegan food. And that is in Canadian dollars. Whereas that would be $5 elsewhere....even that it too expensive for such little food. I'm not complaining; just stating my opinion. You buy natural products you will pay more because it costs more to extract the ingredients and more of the ingredient needs to be used in place of a cheaper alternative. And maybe your government is more conscious of the environment-which is commendable. It does cost more but if one is really conscious then one will have to pay more.

And who's to say we don't put pressure on our government? Your president doesn't seem too concerned about wildlife and the environment with this wall he is proposing. Just because it isn't happening doesn't mean we aren't fighting for it. Where I live there is a composting program which is so useful because we as people in the first world, waste so much food. Even if we compare the west with Europe, we waste so much more. We use twice as much water and throw away more food than those in Europe. And our food contains more chemicals. It's easy to say that others are wasteful when you are living in an area where some measures have been taken to reduce the waste. As a society, we live like everything is disposable, from diapers to cleaning product to pets. This is evident because companies continually produce these types of products. As consumers can speak by not buying these products.

[sumidha]

I guess I have a very different opinion because it's very easy to find a business here that doesn't participate in what you described. There are several markets and restaurants that grow their own food. There are bars that have composts that they use to grow the food that they serve here for petes sake, bars!! Hahahaha. Maybe it's just easier for me because I live in a very liberal state where plastic bags are banned, most everyone here lives ethically or tries to, we have taxes that are placed on people that consume too much. We also put a lot of pressure on the government to do their part here.

So I guess it's just different for me.

I live in CA as well, I did event greening in the bay area. :)

I'm not saying that trying to live a life that is less wasteful isn't a worthy goal, I'm saying that there is a very large waste stream that the end consumer doesn't ever see, and therefor doesn't think about.

HairPlease Depending on where you live there might be bulk stores or health food stores that have bulk shampoo and conditioner, though obviously the selection of products wont be as extensive as a drug store or supermarket. :)

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

While that is great that there are businesses with a conscience where you live, I am hesitant to believe they are not more expensive than your average business. There is a similar restaurant where I live and it costs $12.00 for a tiny meal. I'm talking a ramikin size bowl of vegan food. And that is in Canadian dollars. Whereas that would be $5 elsewhere....even that it too expensive for such little food. I'm not complaining; just stating my opinion. You buy natural products you will pay more because it costs more to extract the ingredients and more of the ingredient needs to be used in place of a cheaper alternative. And maybe your government is more conscious of the environment-which is commendable. It does cost more but if one is really conscious then one will have to pay more.

And who's to say we don't put pressure on our government? Your president doesn't seem too concerned about wildlife and the environment with this wall he is proposing. Just because it isn't happening doesn't mean we aren't fighting for it. Where I live there is a composting program which is so useful because we as people in the first world, waste so much food. Even if we compare the west with Europe, we waste so much more. We use twice as much water and throw away more food than those in Europe. And our food contains more chemicals. It's easy to say that others are wasteful when you are living in an area where some measures have been taken to reduce the waste. As a society, we live like everything is disposable, from diapers to cleaning product to pets. This is evident because companies continually produce these types of products. As consumers can speak by not buying these products.

Trump can eat a pile of **** for all I care. Thanks.


I'm not being accusatory but your comment is coming off to me like you feel that way.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

I live in CA as well, I did event greening in the bay area. :)

I'm not saying that trying to live a life that is less wasteful isn't a worthy goal, I'm saying that there is a very large waste stream that the end consumer doesn't ever see, and therefor doesn't think about.

HairPlease Depending on where you live there might be bulk stores or health food stores that have bulk shampoo and conditioner, though obviously the selection of products wont be as extensive as a drug store or supermarket. :)


I don't disagree with you on that point at all.
What part of California are you from?

Anyway -- I'm trying to find users here that are cruelty free. Nobody has seemed to come out of the woodwork and for some reason the title is still showing as "do you feel wasteful?" So I'm just getting a lot of feedback that's coming off as hostile and for that IM OUTTIE.

I thought this community was a little more relaxed. Lol.

[sumidha]

I grew up in the North Bay but now I live in the sierra foothills in central CA. Big change! :laugh:

I think on a subconscious level most people are not happy with the deeply unsustainable way we live but feel powerless to change it, so discussion about it can bring up a lot of feelings and thoughts we'd rather not deal with.

[littlestarface]

I grew up in the North Bay but now I live in the sierra foothills in central CA. Big change! :laugh:

I think on a subconscious level most people are not happy with the deeply unsustainable way we live but feel powerless to change it, so discussion about it can bring up a lot of feelings and thoughts we'd rather not deal with.

Oh my god! we are neighbors!*faints* Come braid my hair please.

[ephemeri]

I think about wasteful-ness all the time. It's really awful because I feel like now that I *see* it, I can't *un-see* it.

I definitely consider myself a product junkie however, I don't plan to be one for the rest of my life. I try to use all of the products I buy, and recycle the bottles they come in, but I still have purchased a lot for my hair in the past 2 years since I've been actively taking care of it. The rest of my life is quite minimal, I hate buying things (ANY things!), but still I spoil myself for my hair.

Being cruelty-free is important to me and now that I know better what my hair likes and needs (which seems to keep changing with length, hopefully this levels out soon), it's easier for me to be cruelty-free and I find myself settling into a routine more.

With that said though, does anyone know of a cruelty-free clarifying shampoo that has sulfates? I haven't come across one yet.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

I think about wasteful-ness all the time. It's really awful because I feel like now that I *see* it, I can't *un-see* it.

I definitely consider myself a product junkie however, I don't plan to be one for the rest of my life. I try to use all of the products I buy, and recycle the bottles they come in, but I still have purchased a lot for my hair in the past 2 years since I've been actively taking care of it. The rest of my life is quite minimal, I hate buying things (ANY things!), but still I spoil myself for my hair.

Being cruelty-free is important to me and now that I know better what my hair likes and needs (which seems to keep changing with length, hopefully this levels out soon), it's easier for me to be cruelty-free and I find myself settling into a routine more.

With that said though, does anyone know of a cruelty-free clarifying shampoo that has sulfates? I haven't come across one yet.

I'm still on a journey to find that myself. Hence why I felt like a cruelty free forum would be great. Yes sometimes the products are more expensive, but honestly if I have to spend 10$ more on a product so that another animal is not hurt -- I will. That's why I wanted to make a forum for cruelty free products and ethical products, I know that it has to exist!

[lapushka]

With that said though, does anyone know of a cruelty-free clarifying shampoo that has sulfates? I haven't come across one yet.

All the big brands do sulfates, but also test on animals, I think, or use products that *were* tested on animals. It also depends where you are, I think. Maybe Weleda? But they use alcohol in their products (as a preservative). I can't handle alcohol on my skin. Last time I used a shampoo by Weleda it burned the crap out of my scalp.

[renia22]

I think about wasteful-ness all the time. It's really awful because I feel like now that I *see* it, I can't *un-see* it.

I definitely consider myself a product junkie however, I don't plan to be one for the rest of my life. I try to use all of the products I buy, and recycle the bottles they come in, but I still have purchased a lot for my hair in the past 2 years since I've been actively taking care of it. The rest of my life is quite minimal, I hate buying things (ANY things!), but still I spoil myself for my hair.

Being cruelty-free is important to me and now that I know better what my hair likes and needs (which seems to keep changing with length, hopefully this levels out soon), it's easier for me to be cruelty-free and I find myself settling into a routine more.

With that said though, does anyone know of a cruelty-free clarifying shampoo that has sulfates? I haven't come across one yet.

Paul Mitchell is cruelty free. Shampoo 2 (clarifying) and shampoo 3 (clarifying and chelating) both have sulfates. Two of my favorites :)

[lapushka]

What about the Trader Joe's Tea tree tingle?

[reilly0167]

Ummm may I chime in? How about a thread of a list of cruelty free products? :flower:

[sumidha]

Oh my god! we are neighbors!*faints* Come braid my hair please.

I had a feeling! :D

Someday we'll have a central valley/central CA meet up. I hear there's some kind of underground gardens in Fresno I've been meaning to see...

[littlestarface]

I had a feeling! :D

Someday we'll have a central valley/central CA meet up. I hear there's some kind of underground gardens in Fresno I've been meaning to see...

I have a feeling it'll be just be me n u at the meet haha.

[ephemeri]

What about the Trader Joe's Tea tree tingle?

Just started using this! No sulfates but yes it is cruelty free. And the best part is its cheap!!

Well actually it looks like it has c12-14 olefin sulfonate, which is supposed to be a strong cleanser, I believe, but I'm not sure if it's considered a sulfate. It doesn't seem as stripping as the laurel/laureth sulfates, which is what I need every once in awhile.

[neko_kawaii]

I have a feeling it'll be just be me n u at the meet haha.

I'm physically far from my homeland, but I'd be there in spirit!

[lithostoic]

Anything I don't use I give away lol. Either to my boyfriend, my mom, or my cousin. I don't feel that's wasteful c:

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

I have a feeling it'll be just be me n u at the meet haha.

I wish I could come! You guys are about a 3 hour drive from me. I really want to see a California meet up though, but maybe when my hair is longer and I feel more like a part of the community...

We could all co-rent out an air b&b and make a thing of it! XD

a girl can dream.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

Ummm may I chime in? How about a thread of a list of cruelty free products? :flower:

If people can start mentioning more cruelty free brands and items they use, I'll get started at building a list. :)

[Flipgirl24]

Trump can eat a pile of **** for all I care. Thanks.


I'm not being accusatory but your comment is coming off to me like you feel that way.

I didn't mean my post to say that you were being accusatory by any means. Your post stated that you live in an area that is conscious of the environment and that it is that way because the constituents lobbied for it. I was plainly saying that where I live we do too. I also believe that we have to look at the big picture.

As for Trump, I didn't imply you supported him; just that he does not care about the environment or animals. He cares about grabbing more p#$y and making his rich friends richer. Which often means the environment and animals will suffer.

[Flipgirl24]

I don't disagree with you on that point at all.
What part of California are you from?

Anyway -- I'm trying to find users here that are cruelty free. Nobody has seemed to come out of the woodwork and for some reason the title is still showing as "do you feel wasteful?" So I'm just getting a lot of feedback that's coming off as hostile and for that IM OUTTIE.

I thought this community was a little more relaxed. Lol.

I think you are being a bit defensive. Being cruelty-free is good and all but some may not feel the same as you. I said in my first post that I aim to be environmentally friendly and cruelty-free but I guess you missed that.

I don't see the issue of being cruelty-free as black and white. If one were to be totally cruelty free then one must consider going vegan, never driving a car or taking a train or plane, never using anything plastic, using products that don't contain any pthalates or any other chemicals harmful to the environment, living in an area that is not encroaching upon animals' natural habitat....and so forth . Eating meat leaves a huge carbon footprint than eating legumes. And you stated you live in LA, a city known for its smog. When I took the subway there, no one rode it. Everyone drives there. My hair and skin always felt like I had buildup of whatever is in the air. Your post seemed to say that your city is the epitome of environmental integrity.

[Flipgirl24]

Check out Leaping Bunny for cruelty-free brands.

[Flipgirl24]

I have a feeling it'll be just be me n u at the meet haha.

Why? Just curious.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

I think you are being a bit defensive. Being cruelty-free is good and all but some may not feel the same as you. I said in my first post that I aim to be environmentally friendly and cruelty-free but I guess you missed that.

I don't see the issue of being cruelty-free as black and white. If one were to be totally cruelty free then one must consider going vegan, never driving a car or taking a train or plane, never using anything plastic, using products that don't contain any pthalates or any other chemicals harmful to the environment, living in an area that is not encroaching upon animals' natural habitat....and so forth . Eating meat leaves a huge carbon footprint than eating legumes. And you stated you live in LA, a city known for its smog. When I took the subway there, no one rode it. Everyone drives there. My hair and skin always felt like I had buildup of whatever is in the air. Your post seemed to say that your city is the epitome of environmental integrity.

Your comments are just continuing to come off as being hostile. That's how they are coming across.

All I wanted to know was if there were other members here that are cruelty free like I am.

That's all.

Leave it at that.

ETA: Id like to add though, your hair and skin probably felt like crap because of our water. Not the air. The water here is terrible, very high PH levels. I have to chelate every 4-5 washes because it's so terrible. But yeah...

[sumidha]

Why? Just curious.

There doesn't seem to be many LHC members from our area of California, although they may be lurking in the woodwork or just not have their location listed on their profiles.

ETA: Whoops, like me! I thought I did have my location listed, but apparently not. >.<

[littlestarface]

Why? Just curious.


There doesn't seem to be many LHC members from our area of California, although they may be lurking in the woodwork or just not have their location listed on their profiles.

ETA: Whoops, like me! I thought I did have my location listed, but apparently not. >.<
Lol me either but ya either everyone is from southern or northern cali here.

[Flipgirl24]

Lol me either but ya either everyone is from southern or northern cali here.

Oh ok! If I was there I'd come!

[Chromis]

Your comments are just continuing to come off as being hostile. That's how they are coming across.

All I wanted to know was if there were other members here that are cruelty free like I am.

That's all.

Leave it at that.

ETA: Id like to add though, your hair and skin probably felt like crap because of our water. Not the air. The water here is terrible, very high PH levels. I have to chelate every 4-5 washes because it's so terrible. But yeah...

Super hard water really does a number on hair!

As an aside, if you want a title changed, you generally need to report the post so we see the request. I know it feels weird hitting report, but you can use it for lots of things and we don't mid at all! Given that the thread has derailed, probably best to start a new one for compiling a cruelty-free list....although it occurs to me there probably is one started somewhere.

Aha! Here we go: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128557&highlight=cruelty
And here is the beauty version: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=134600&highlight=cruelty
There is also a vegan/veggie haircare thread here for people interested in that and there is a very active regular chat thread too over in the health forum: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=135827&highlight=cruelty

We don't have one that is a straight list, so if someone wants to make it, feel free and you can edit in stuff as people suggest it into the first post :flower:

[Upside Down]

Well, yes. But as Lapushka said, some things are a luxury - maybe not in USA but here yes. Organic food is not something that I can afford day to day, cruelty free brands are largely not available here, and ordering online is way more expensive so...yes. And I like products, I admit.

And given that my country basically has very very few recycling options, I try to consume, well, less, and I make it a point to consume all of it. I never throw away hair or other beauty stuff. I will use it or give it away. Food too, I buy less and less and I am really putting an effort into tracking expiry dates and consuming it all. But to be honest, my baby sitter cooks so that is a load off me and allows me to take more care in other areas.

But children's toys are such a terrible thing. I know this is offtopic. But I just feel so bad when I collect a huge bag of rubbish in my toy cleanup that happens twice a year or so. I always give everything that is in good shape to either friends and relatives who need it or to charity, mostly refugees.
But so much is just plain rubbish, parts missing, broken etc. i really need to make more effort in teaching my son to put stuff back in place.

[lapushka]

Well, yes. But as Lapushka said, some things are a luxury - maybe not in USA but here yes. Organic food is not something that I can afford day to day, cruelty free brands are largely not available here, and ordering online is way more expensive so...yes. And I like products, I admit.

And given that my country basically has very very few recycling options, I try to consume, well, less, and I make it a point to consume all of it. I never throw away hair or other beauty stuff. I will use it or give it away. Food too, I buy less and less and I am really putting an effort into tracking expiry dates and consuming it all. But to be honest, my baby sitter cooks so that is a load off me and allows me to take more care in other areas.

We can only do our very best. That's the most people can expect from us, IMO. And if these products are quite expensive or hard to come by in your country, then... well, that's that.

My mom kept most of my toys, for my future children. So they weren't going to waste, board games, stuffed toys. I still have my Miss Piggy and Kermit The Frog stuffed toys!

[Arctic]

I do feel often waisteful but I try to consume as little as possible. Of hair products, conditioner especially is something I use quite a lot. I try to consume less in general and make good choices, however I do generate waste, even with recycling. Some organic products are easily available here and affordable, some are harder to find and expensive. I try to live rather frugally so I need to compromise too. I would love to use more cruelty free cosmestics/hygiene stuff but unfortunately those very often fall under the categories of a) too expensive, b) too difficult to get my hands on or c) do not suit my skin/scalp/hair (I have problem skin and relatively picky hair and very picky scalp).


BTW, of American products, do I remember correcly that Malibu brand has vegan chelating/clarifying shampoos?

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

Super hard water really does a number on hair!

As an aside, if you want a title changed, you generally need to report the post so we see the request. I know it feels weird hitting report, but you can use it for lots of things and we don't mid at all! Given that the thread has derailed, probably best to start a new one for compiling a cruelty-free list....although it occurs to me there probably is one started somewhere.

Aha! Here we go: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128557&highlight=cruelty
And here is the beauty version: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=134600&highlight=cruelty
There is also a vegan/veggie haircare thread here for people interested in that and there is a very active regular chat thread too over in the health forum: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=135827&highlight=cruelty

We don't have one that is a straight list, so if someone wants to make it, feel free and you can edit in stuff as people suggest it into the first post :flower:

Thanks for the links!!! I don't know about you guys but the search function doesn't work on mobile for me and that's how I access LHC the most. (The reason why I don't know the locations of any members at all times, why my siggy is missing etc etc lol) so it was hard for me to search and find anything in relation to cruelty free.

Well, I would take the project on if a few other members would also tag along and help! :) I can't do it all alone.

[school of fish]

Thanks for the links!!! I don't know about you guys but the search function doesn't work on mobile for me and that's how I access LHC the most. (The reason why I don't know the locations of any members at all times, why my siggy is missing etc etc lol) so it was hard for me to search and find anything in relation to cruelty free.

Well, I would take the project on if a few other members would also tag along and help! :) I can't do it all alone.

I also access LHC via mobile - virtually every time I come on - and also have found the search function pretty inadequate ;) My workaround is to google search for example 'long hair community cruelty free' and then search through the google hits. I always turn up multiples and the post dates are clearly listed so I know what's current and what's archived ;)

Hope that helps for future searching :)

[ephemeri]

Paul Mitchell is cruelty free. Shampoo 2 (clarifying) and shampoo 3 (clarifying and chelating) both have sulfates. Two of my favorites :)

Oh I didn't realize that! Thanks for the info.

[PixieP]

Eh, not really. I don't have a car, or children, so I feel like I have a bit of leeway, lol. I'm not a hoarder, I try out one thing at a time and unless it makes my hair REALLY terrible I will finish it befre buying something new (and if I can't use it I give it to my husband to finish :P ). On other things I have lots more than I strictly need (makeup! nail polish! colouring pencils!) but I still have little compared to others, so *shrug* I'm materialistic, I like things, buying things gives me pleasure. I bought a new lipstick two weeks ago and putting it on every time I go out now makes me happy. I do prefer products who are long-lasting though (like my eyeliner pencil, even though I use it 2-5 times a week, I've had it for THREE YEARS! And it'll probably last me until summer) since I don't have a lot of money. So I'd rather pay a bit more for a product initially if that product will then last me much longer than a cheaper version (like my eyeliner. It costs 150kr, I could buy one from H&M for 50kr, but that wouldn't even last me six months!).

For my hair, I am willing to be wasteful if I have to. I take good care of my skin and my hair. It's my "luxury habit". I feel good when my hair and skin is nice. And considering the fact that I have severe psoriasis then it is a happiness you cannot understand than my scalp and skin now is psoriasis-free.



It's illegal to test cosmetic (and hair/skin products are included in that) on animals in Europe, so products bought here is automatically cruelty free, FTR.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

It's illegal to test cosmetic (and hair/skin products are included in that) on animals in Europe, so products bought here is automatically cruelty free, FTR.

Im not sure if that is true. As make up and beauty products sold in china and produced in china, are tested on animals due to the fact that its required by law there. So if you buy from a company that sells to china or sells that product in china -- that product was tested on animals even if it was not required in your country. It may have not been tested in your country, but it was tested at HQ so that it could be sold overall.

I did a quick google search and found this article:
https://www.crueltyfreeinternational.org/what-we-do/corporate-partnerships/eu-ban-cosmetics-testing

"Cosmetics companies which are not Leaping Bunny certified can still test their products or ingredients on animals – as long as they don’t do these tests or sell these products in the European Union."


personally im not sure, youd have to do research on the companies and decide for yourself.
like for me, i buy cruelty free products sold by companies that are owned by parent companies that DO test on animals, so if you buy from the cruelty free company they own that company is still making money off you.

some people that are cruelty free, will not buy from companies owned by parent companies that test.
i personally do not go to that extent because doing that makes it 10x harder to find cruelty free products but its a decision you have to make for yourself in the end.

[ExpectoPatronum]

Another Californian! Not central though. I'm very north. I'm very fortunate to live in a city that's very big on organic, local, cruelty free stuff. It's super easy for me to find organic produce that was grown locally and to find cruelty free organic skin and hair care. In fact, Jessicurl is very local ;D I can actually get it in the bulk section of my local grocery store. Unfortunately, I don't really love the products so it's useless to me :/

That said, that stuff is pricey. I kind of compromise depending on what I need and when. If I only need to repurchase one item - say shampoo - I'll get something cruelty-free and organic. If I need a few things - face wash, conditioner, curl cream, and shampoo at the same time?! - then I need to do what's best for my budget.

Honestly I feel like any effort is better than putting in no effort. In a perfect world, I'd be all cruelty-free and I'd buy all local produce. Unfortunately, that's beyond my budget. I do what I can and that's all anyone can do, really.

[PixieP]

Im not sure if that is true. As make up and beauty products sold in china and produced in china, are tested on animals due to the fact that its required by law there. So if you buy from a company that sells to china or sells that product in china -- that product was tested on animals even if it was not required in your country. It may have not been tested in your country, but it was tested at HQ so that it could be sold overall.

I did a quick google search and found this article:
https://www.crueltyfreeinternational.org/what-we-do/corporate-partnerships/eu-ban-cosmetics-testing

"Cosmetics companies which are not Leaping Bunny certified can still test their products or ingredients on animals – as long as they don’t do these tests or sell these products in the European Union."


personally im not sure, youd have to do research on the companies and decide for yourself.
like for me, i buy cruelty free products sold by companies that are owned by parent companies that DO test on animals, so if you buy from the cruelty free company they own that company is still making money off you.

some people that are cruelty free, will not buy from companies owned by parent companies that test.
i personally do not go to that extent because doing that makes it 10x harder to find cruelty free products but its a decision you have to make for yourself in the end.

It is true. Products sold in the EU has not been tested on animals. Yes, I know China requires it, and so there are other versions of the same products on the market there, and parent companies and so on. But that still doesn't remove the fact that I can buy any mascara or shampoo I want to and know that this product has not been tested on animals. I don't understand your need to argue that?

[Hairkay]

I don't use cosmetics due to health reasons so I don't have waste regarding that. My hair stuff is DIY kitchen stuff and good old water (even my hard water is useful). I have some waste with general groceries that I deal with by putting it in our door to door recycling rubbish collection. I don't stress myself trying to work out what is cruelty free or not. Unwanted books and other items that can be reused get swapped with friends/family or taken to the local charity shops.

[lapushka]

It's illegal to test cosmetic (and hair/skin products are included in that) on animals in Europe, so products bought here is automatically cruelty free, FTR.

I'm sure that's not true over the entire EU. A lot of the products sold here aren't cruelty free.

[PixieP]

I'm sure that's not true over the entire EU. A lot of the products sold here aren't cruelty free.

It is, it is a EU directive :)
https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/cosmetics/animal-testing_en

http://www.understandinganimalresearch.org.uk/policy/cosmetics/

[Dacia]

On September 21, 2016, the EU Court of Justice (ECJ) has confirmed that there will be no exception to the ban on animal testing for any cosmetic product, even if the tests have been conducted anywhere in the world after March 11, 2013. (http://www.ceway.eu/eu-court-asserts-ban-on-animal-testing-for-cosmetics/)

Things are slowly changing in China too:

Previously, it required that all imported cosmetics be tested on animals. Now, the China Food and Drug Administration has waived its requirement for certain cosmetics to be registered with the agency, which means that animal tests for these non-special use cosmetics will no longer be automatically required. (https://globalcosmeticsnews.com/asia-australasia/3912/peta-new-chinese-regulations-will-end-animal-testing-requirement-for-non-special-use-cosmetics)

[Sarahlabyrinth]

No, I don't feel wasteful. We don't throw food away, and our scraps are composted.

Dh and I both wear our clothes until they have holes, and after that they are used for painting rags.

We go years without buying shoes and have only a couple of pairs each. We buy clothes only rarely, once a year, maybe, and some of those are from charity shops.
We use everything we buy, and we buy sparingly. I do buy shampoo and conditioner more than other items but they too, always are used up and never thrown away.

[lapushka]

It is, it is a EU directive :)
https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/cosmetics/animal-testing_en

http://www.understandinganimalresearch.org.uk/policy/cosmetics/

It's about phasing it out slowly. If something was decided in 2016, that's quite recent. Still, Pantene, and Herbal Essences are being sold here still, and they aren't particularly cruelty free. Maybe they have changed the way the tests go, and have adapted, but it's not totally cruelty free, right?